Is Kellenberger gonna ask Freezus about the name Ole Miss?

[Coach34]

Since we need to ask Coaches to take stands on offensive things

[SDDawg]

Since we need to ask Coaches to take stands on offensive things

No. But he'll probably ask Hugh how he feels about protecting battered women... **

[Maroonthirteen]

He should be asked his thoughts on changing the mascot, Rebel. A few high schools across the south have eliminated the rebel nickname and there is discussion in other southern school districts. They all ready have the black bear in place. Why not?

[Thick]

Since we need to ask Coaches to take stands on offensive things

You should ask him via Twitter. He opened up the subject with flag question, thus he should ask the HC whose school has promoted all of the condemned symbols of today.

[notsofarawaydawg]

He should be asked if all football coaches who champion Christianity everytime he speaks in public allow their 18 yr old recruits to attend booze, drug and prostitute parties when they bring them on campus. Also, can he explain how a Christian football coach can sleep at night with all the under the table cash being handed out to buy a recruit? Lots of good questions he needs to address as a publicly proclaimed Christian man who has been in the heppin business for some years now. Also, how does it feel to be a true hypocrite?

[confucius say]

He should be asked if all football coaches who champion Christianity everytime he speaks in public allow their 18 yr old recruits to attend booze, drug and prostitute parties when they bring them on campus. Also, can he explain how a Christian football coach can sleep at night with all the under the table cash being handed out to buy a recruit? Lots of good questions he needs to address as a publicly proclaimed Christian man who has been in the heppin business for some years now. Also, how does it feel to be a true hypocrite?

Yea but he can deny those things or claim no knowledge. He can't deny the fact that the phrase "ole miss" is offensive, especially considering his school's website proclaimed the true definition of the term (anybody got a screen shot) and his school got rid of the phrase as a means of identifying every part of the school except the athletic teams. If it's not offensive, why get rid of it on the academic side??

[TrapGame]

Since he's ordained I think he should be asked would he officiate a same sex wedding between two of his players. I mean let's all ask coaches the most offensive question we can.

[MSUDawg99]

Since he's ordained I think he should be asked would he officiate a same sex wedding between two of his players. I mean let's all ask coaches the most offensive question we can.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BeardoMSU]

Since he's ordained I think he should be asked would he officiate a same sex wedding between two of his players. I mean let's all ask coaches the most offensive question we can.

Too bad he's not ordained in Dudeism, lol.

[starkvegasdawg]

Ask him if he ever fishes for catfish or just tweets at them.

[RC3]

he will be asked about the flag though and he will give a more detailed and firm answer than Dan. This is all prearranged so that Ole Miss can trumpet how they are no longer racist and more progressive than MSU when it comes to racial diversity. Bank on it

[ScoobaDawg]

he will be asked about the flag though and he will give a more detailed and firm answer than Dan. This is all prearranged so that Ole Miss can trumpet how they are no longer racist and more progressive than MSU when it comes to racial diversity. Bank on it

Let them try that... Then just put out the enrollment figures that prove over and over we are the most diverse.

[missouridawg]

Let them try that... Then just put out the enrollment figures that prove over and over we are the most diverse.

But it's set up so that Dan was caught off guard by it, was then bashed by the CL... and now Freezus will be fully prepared for a thorough, thoughtful answer. He can't lose when he gets posed this question now.

[CadaverDawg]

But it's set up so that Dan was caught off guard by it, was then bashed by the CL... and now Freezus will be fully prepared for a thorough, thoughtful answer. He can't lose when he gets posed this question now.

I agree.

I'm actually kinda pissed that our people didn't expect a flag question and have Mullen a more rehearsed answer prepared. Martin, Stricklin, or somebody should have known it was a possibility and prepared Dan.

[confucius say]

Let them try that... Then just put out the enrollment figures that prove over and over we are the most diverse.

Or explain to everyone the definition of ole miss, as was admitted by dan jones when he disassociated the term with everything university related minus the athletic teams. You don't get to ever trumpet diversity when your athletic teams bear a racist and offensive name.

[confucius say]

I agree.

I'm actually kinda pissed that our people didn't expect a flag question and have Mullen a more rehearsed answer prepared. Martin, Stricklin, or somebody should have known it was a possibility and prepared Dan.

Dan and the university were not caught off guard by that. The cl told them they were going to ask the question. For better or worse, mullen gave the response the school wanted given.

[Liverpooldawg]

I'd rather them ask Freeze hard questions about Tunsil and illegal recruiting than this stuff. The questions about their "heritage" might make them squirm a bit but the other stuff is where they could get into real trouble. There heritage is no secret, and never has been.

[gravedigger]

Since we need to ask Coaches to take stands on offensive things

No. He's going to further endear himself to the om crowd by asking the same question without acknowledging his ingenuine criticism towards dan. Its simply one of the long line of small minded tactics that um has used through that fishwrapper for decades.

Its nowhere near an issue but it serves them well to take the attention away from their coach who screwedup throwing miller under the bus and creating the situation that the ncaa has a motivated eyewitness to their investigation that they want NO part of answering.

Yall just relax back and enjoy the show. If the media avoids raking freeze over the coals regarding his opinion of whether the stepfather is a threat or not, then kellenburger accomplished the mission he was paid to accomplish.

They are chum in the water. The shark wont stay away for long. A conference media event isnt the beginning or end.

[scottycameron]

No. He's going to further endear himself to the om crowd by asking the same question without acknowledging his ingenuine criticism towards dan. Its simply one of the long line of small minded tactics that um has used through that fishwrapper for decades.

Its nowhere near an issue but it serves them well to take the attention away from their coach who screwedup throwing miller under the bus and creating the situation that the ncaa has a motivated eyewitness to their investigation that they want NO part of answering.

Yall just relax back and enjoy the show. If the media avoids raking freeze over the coals regarding his opinion of whether the stepfather is a threat or not, then kellenburger accomplished the mission he was paid to accomplish.

They are chum in the water. The shark wont stay away for long. A conference media event isnt the beginning or end.


I can see it already. Freeze will throw some BS scripted line out there that's already been approved by kellenburger and he'll write up a glowing opinion piece on how Freeze "gets it". And that's bad enough, but hide and watch he'll drag CDM's quote back up and compare and contrast how bad DM was and how great HF was. You can smell this crap set up a mile away. Like you said, that's why nobody reads it anymore. People buy it for the big ad section and those DA's think people read their crap.

[RC3]

I can see it already. Freeze will throw some BS scripted line out there that's already been approved by kellenburger and he'll write up a glowing opinion piece on how Freeze "gets it". And that's bad enough, but hide and watch he'll drag CDM's quote back up and compare and contrast how bad DM was and how great HF was. You can smell this crap set up a mile away. Like you said, that's why nobody reads it anymore. People buy it for the big ad section and those DA's think people read their crap.

my thoughts exactly...sets up good for them and they are going to take full advantage

[shannondawg]

Dan and the university were not caught off guard by that. The cl told them they were going to ask the question. For better or worse, mullen gave the response the school wanted given.
I for one, had no problem with Dan's answer, and can't understand why anybody else would.

[BulldogBear]

I for one, had no problem with Dan's answer, and can't understand why anybody else would.

Only because and if they wanted to.

[confucius say]

I for one, had no problem with Dan's answer, and can't understand why anybody else would.

I agree

[State82]

I for one, had no problem with Dan's answer, and can't understand why anybody else would.

Bo Bounds nailed it this morning. He was praising Mullen's response and made the comment that it obviously went over the heads of our local media. I laughed at that comment.

[Prediction? Pain.]

I for one, had no problem with Dan's answer, and can't understand why anybody else would.

Agreed. I watched it live and didn't think twice about what he said. In fact, I didn't think about it at all until I heard about the CL article. Kellenberger's manufactured fallout is absurd.

[PassInterference]

I'll give H Kell credit for saying "the CL made it clear to MSU and OM that the coaches would be asked about the flag. Hard as it is to believe it was like HK was saying "I know this is redonk but my boss made me do it".

Looks to me like this is a Sports Ed decision to push the issue with the coaches.

Now look for Hugh Freeze to do a good job with the question. OM has been better at making head-on public statements in this area.

BTW, I liked Dan's response. He answered it like a coach should.

But Freeze will answer the company line.

[BeardoMSU]

But Freeze will answer the company line.

He will, and HK and the MS "media" types will eat it up, despite the hypocrisy of having such a stance whilst ignoring the "Ole Miss" and "Rebel" parts of their namesake. There is also the "Rebel Gray" unis they wear....oh where do you think they got that idea?

[bluelightstar]

Yeah, Freeze was definitely ready after Mullen's reply. "I'm not a political figure, but it's past time we change the flag." Set. up.

[Maroonthirteen]

I just hope they pepper him with so many NCAA/Tunsil questions, that they don't get to ask about the flag.

[BrunswickDawg]

deleted

[fishwater99]

I just hope they pepper him with so many NCAA/Tunsil questions, that they don't get to ask about the flag.

Too late.. And Freeze hit it out of the park. No followup question about "Ole Miss or Rebels" either..

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/ole-miss/2015/07/16/ole-miss-hugh-freeze-changing-confederate-state-flag/30233411/

[Just This Once]

I for one, had no problem with Dan's answer, and can't understand why anybody else would.

I've got 2 black coworkers on a team of 5 (2 MSU grads - one black, 2 Ole Miss grads - one black, and an MC grad). I mentioned the black coworker that went to Ole Miss yesterday, but the black coworker from MSU didn't like Dan's statement at all. Granted, his ire was more directed at the administration for the original statement and then having Dan regurgitate it.

He said that he didn't like that MSU wasn't taking a stand on the issue and that they were essentially saying "well, we don't use it much so we don't have an opinion."

He also said that the diversity part sounds like the "I've got tons of black friends" line that you hear a lot.

So, I can understand why someone would have a problem with the answer, but we both agreed that Dan was likely told exactly how to respond to it.

[RC3]

Too late.. And Freeze hit it out of the park. No followup question about "Ole Miss or Rebels" either..

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/ole-miss/2015/07/16/ole-miss-hugh-freeze-changing-confederate-state-flag/30233411/


hate to say i told yall so. this was put on a tee for freeze/ole miss

[gravedigger]

Too late.. And Freeze hit it out of the park. No followup question about "Ole Miss or Rebels" either..

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/ole-miss/2015/07/16/ole-miss-hugh-freeze-changing-confederate-state-flag/30233411/

Actually that is a good thing in my opinion. Its out if the way and he hasnt hit the actual podium yet.

If the CL avoids the NCAA investigation question and Freeze's role in villifying Miller they, one again prove there is inly ine fan base they cater to.

Most have known this for years. My popcorn is ready. I believe Pugsly will have his shot at 10:30.

[Maroonthirteen]

Yep. I called it the other day. I knew he would take a strong stance that protects recruiting. They won't follow either with any Q's about OLE MISS or the nickname Rebels. Or his opinion on the "Col. Reb foundation" that continues to keep Col Reb alive in the Grove. However, we shall see the response from their fans....should be interesting.

[bluelightstar]

And the national media jumps in on the 'let's lambast Mullen' train.

https://twitter.com/CBSSportsCFB/status/621687383294091264

[BrunswickDawg]

And the national media jumps in on the 'let's lambast Mullen' train.

https://twitter.com/CBSSportsCFB/status/621687383294091264
Good to see our folks calling their Bs on it too

[Maroonthirteen]

I've got 2 black coworkers on a team of 5 (2 MSU grads - one black, 2 Ole Miss grads - one black, and an MC grad). I mentioned the black coworker that went to Ole Miss yesterday, but the black coworker from MSU didn't like Dan's statement at all. Granted, his ire was more directed at the administration for the original statement and then having Dan regurgitate it.

He said that he didn't like that MSU wasn't taking a stand on the issue and that they were essentially saying "well, we don't use it much so we don't have an opinion."

He also said that the diversity part sounds like the "I've got tons of black friends" line that you hear a lot.

.

So a sample size of 1 represents the opinion of millions.

[LC Dawg]

If you really listen to what Freeze said he is still throwing a bone to all the "heritage" people and he is getting a pass on it. He said "Unfortunately that symbol has been hijacked by some groups that mean ill-will towards some people." In other words, if it just represented the good ole Confederancy who were fighting to keep their field hands I would have no problem with it but since the Klan and some psycho from South Carolina use it I think we should get rid of it. And of course there was no follow up.
I really wish Mullen had just said to get rid of the flag and gotten it over with but it pisses me off that Freeze gets blown by the media for a statement that isn't as firm on the flag removal as they would like you to believe.
At this point I wish Keenum, Mullen, and the rest would just say "We don't like the flag, we don't fly the flag, and we don't give a **** what any of you think about any of it. If you don't like it you can go to the grove and check out their "diversity."

[bluelightstar]

So a sample size of 1 represents the opinion of millions.

I think you literally just created that out of thin air

[Maroonthirteen]

What's the point of posting a long story about the opinion of one person regarding Mullen's comments on a national issue?

[Just This Once]

So a sample size of 1 represents the opinion of millions.

Not sure how you got that. The person I was replying to said he couldn't understand why ANYBODY would be upset with Dan's comments. I pointed out a guy I work with every day that is black and graduated from MSU who is upset with Dan's comments. Does that not qualify?

[gravedigger]

Not sure how you got that. The person I was replying to said he couldn't understand why ANYBODY would be upset with Dan's comments. I pointed out a guy I work with every day that is black and graduated from MSU who is upset with Dan's comments. Does that not qualify?

Considering how many times our university has done the right thing with regard to race, and how mullen has only lived in the state for 6 years, i think your black co-worker was expecting too much. His answer, while not perfect, was not poor either.

[Just This Once]

Considering how many times our university has done the right thing with regard to race, and how mullen has only lived in the state for 6 years, i think your black co-worker was expecting too much. His answer, while not perfect, was not poor either.

I just wish SOMEONE associated with MSU would say "Change the damn flag." Everyone that has commented on it has avoided making a strong statement. Ole Miss' interim chancellor, AD, and now football coach have all explicitly said they want the flag changed. Ours have rode the fence.

[fishwater99]

I just wish SOMEONE associated with MSU would say "Change the damn flag." Everyone that has commented on it has avoided making a strong statement. Ole Miss' interim chancellor, AD, and now football coach have all explicitly said they want the flag changed. Ours have rode the fence.

This!!

[SheltonChoked]

How has the statement ridden the fence?

Both official statements from MSU say that MSU wanted to change the Flag 15 years ago, when it was up for popular vote.

Now I understand if you want Keenum, et. al. to say " we wanted it changed then, we want it changed now", but it's not like they have said well we aren't sure.. we wish it had more maroon in it.

[Saltydog]

why sure but the best response would've been, "We're not here to discuss politics. We're here to discuss football. I have no comment on this subject whatsoever."

[Just This Once]

Which one takes a stronger stance:


Like all people of good will, Mississippi State University abhors the senseless violence that was visited on the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina, and we grieve with the families of the victims. In 2001, the MSU Faculty Senate voted overwhelmingly in support of changing the state flag of Mississippi prior to the failed statewide voter referendum on that question. Other than lawful displays of the state flag, the symbols in question are not associated with our university. As the most diverse university in the Southeastern Conference and the most diverse of the original land-grant universities in the country, Mississippi State remains committed to diversity, inclusion, equal opportunity and a culture of fellowship, tolerance and peace. That's true in our academic offerings and in our athletics programs as well.

OR


The University of Mississippi community came to the realization years ago that the Confederate battle flag did not represent many of our core values such as civility and respect for others. Since that time, we have become a stronger and better university. We join other leaders in our state who are calling for a change in the state flag.

The first one to me just reads like a politician's answer of say a lot with the right buzz words without actually saying anything. Meanwhile, the second actually says "change the state flag."

[starkvegasdawg]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/48/a5/6a/48a56a699d499b28b9ae2937f7a971ec.jpg

[confucius say]

Which one takes a stronger stance:



OR



The first one to me just reads like a politician's answer of say a lot with the right buzz words without actually saying anything. Meanwhile, the second actually says "change the state flag."

Like I told you yesterday, no one who supports the use of the phrase "ole miss" to identify their athletic teams has any credibility regarding race relations. To that end, notice in the statement you posted, it says university of mississippi. Not ole miss.

[DancingRabbit]

I just wish SOMEONE associated with MSU would say "Change the damn flag." Everyone that has commented on it has avoided making a strong statement. Ole Miss' interim chancellor, AD, and now football coach have all explicitly said they want the flag changed. Ours have rode the fence.

My only complaint is that Dan did not refer to it as the Rebel flag.

Are you a big Will Clark Fan?

[scottycameron]

Which one takes a stronger stance:



OR



The first one to me just reads like a politician's answer of say a lot with the right buzz words without actually saying anything. Meanwhile, the second actually says "change the state flag."

JMO, but why do we keep saying we're the most diverse in the SEC, or in the country? Every time we answer the question we say that instead. I bet most folks roll there eyes at it, I know I do. What is that supposed to mean/prove? Anything?
Move on to something else and drop that talking point - it ain't helping. Ask Dan.

[Just This Once]

JMO, but why do we keep saying we're the most diverse in the SEC, or in the country? Every time we answer the question we say that instead. I bet most folks roll there eyes at it, I know I do. What is that supposed to mean/prove? Anything?
Move on to something else and drop that talking point - it ain't helping. Ask Dan.

Yea that's what my coworker means by the "I'm not racist, I've got black friends" line. Not to mention that MSU actually isn't the most diverse in the SEC. We have the highest percentage enrollment of African-Americans, but not the highest minority enrollment.

[Just This Once]

Like I told you yesterday, no one who supports the use of the phrase "ole miss" to identify their athletic teams has any credibility regarding race relations. To that end, notice in the statement you posted, it says university of mississippi. Not ole miss.

Might not have any credibility to you, but the ones writing the articles about aren't concerned about "Ole Miss." They are concerned about the flag.

[pilldawg]

Might not have any credibility to you, but the ones writing the articles about aren't concerned about "Ole Miss." They are concerned about the flag.

Ole Miss needs to take a strong stance or people will think they may not have distanced themselves as far as they are led to believe. MSU really doesn't need to take a strong stance. I guarantee you the people of Mississippi know the difference in schools.

[scottycameron]

Yea that's what my coworker means by the "I'm not racist, I've got black friends" line. Not to mention that MSU actually isn't the most diverse in the SEC. We have the highest percentage enrollment of African-Americans, but not the highest minority enrollment.

Actually diversity means black not all the other things. We are the most diverse. But who cares? That would be like the gov of Mississippi saying that the state of Miss can't be racist because we're the blackest state. That's what we're doing. We're answering the question with "MSU is the blackest school in the SEC, end of discussion" and that's why people are giving it a hard time. And Dan throw's in "and I'm even a Yankee" on top of it. Need to group up and get a new idea.

[SheltonChoked]

The first one says
In 2001, the MSU Faculty Senate voted overwhelmingly in support of changing the state flag of Mississippi AND
the symbols in question are not associated with our university.

While the second one
came to the realization and
We join other leaders in our state who are calling for a change in the state flag.


To me it reads like MSU Was the leader years ago, and Ole Miss is following us....

[missouridawg]

The first one says AND

While the second one and


To me it reads like MSU Was the leader years ago, and Ole Miss is following us....

You're right, but you'd have to be a MS historian to know this backstory. The national media is only going to compare Freeze vs Mullen on their answers this week. This is Kellenberger and CL creating a national smearing campaign on MSU... and MSU had a chance to prevent it, but didn't. Someone at MSU needs to nut the **** up and say change the damn flag.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

To me it reads like MSU Was the leader years ago, and Ole Miss is following us....
I couldn't agree more. When hearing Dan speak on it, I never would've thought that he would've been criticized like this.

[SDDawg]

Someone at MSU needs to nut the **** up and say change the damn flag.

Hasn't Keenum already done this? What the hell am I missing? http://www.cdispatch.com/news/article.asp?aid=43107

It bugs the hell out of me when we twist ourselves into knots over things that are simple. The MSU president has spoken on the issue and that's the answer. There is no other answer from anyone at MSU that matters more than his. I only wish Dan had said that: I agree with Dr. Keenum and our faculty that have spoken on this issue. That's the right answer (and it's what he thinks btw, even if he didn't say it clearly). I agree this is a smear job but it's a lame one. Who flies the rebel flag on campus during sporting and student events, who has the fans that wear it, who has the fans that tie ropes around statues, etc.? Those are the people that deserve the ridicule, and without an ounce of defensiveness I would stand up in front of anybody and say that. That's what we all should do and continue to do until the BLACK BEARS finally give up the (racist) ghost.

[missouridawg]

Hasn't Keenum already done this? What the hell am I missing? http://www.cdispatch.com/news/article.asp?aid=43107

It bugs the hell out of me when we twist ourselves into knots over things that are simple. The MSU president has spoken on the issue and that's the answer. There is no other answer from anyone at MSU that matters more than his. I only wish Dan had said that: I agree with Dr. Keenum and our faculty that have spoken on this issue. That's the right answer (and it's what he thinks btw, even if he didn't say it clearly). I agree this is a smear job but it's a lame one. Who flies the rebel flag on campus during sporting and student events, who has the fans that wear it, who has the fans that tie ropes around statues, etc.? Those are the people that deserve the ridicule, and without an ounce of defensiveness I would stand up in front of anybody and say that. That's what we all should do and continue to do until the BLACK BEARS finally give up the (racist) ghost.

Because Keenum's cute little article in the Columbus Dispatch pales in comparison of viewership to some of the national media outlets that are covering SEC Media Days. Mullen should've re-iterated this committment, but he didn't.

[SDDawg]

Because Keenum's cute little article in the Columbus Dispatch pales in comparison of viewership to some of the national media outlets that are covering SEC Media Days. Mullen should've re-iterated this committment, but he didn't.

We agree on that, but Keenum's public statement is out there and Kellenberger definitely knows about it. Why doesn't he make that point more clear and more importantly why does he feel the need to ask? Knowing that he has those facts and chooses to ignore them, I'm insulted that we even have to respond to this while the "Stars and Bars" crowd in Oxford gets away with their nonsense!

[Maroonthirteen]

Hasn't Keenum already done this? What the hell am I missing? http://www.cdispatch.com/news/article.asp?aid=43107

It bugs the hell out of me when we twist ourselves into knots over things that are simple. The MSU president has spoken on the issue and that's the answer. There is no other answer from anyone at MSU that matters more than his. I only wish Dan had said that: I agree with Dr. Keenum and our faculty that have spoken on this issue. That's the right answer (and it's what he thinks btw, even if he didn't say it clearly). I agree this is a smear job but it's a lame one. Who flies the rebel flag on campus during sporting and student events, who has the fans that wear it, who has the fans that tie ropes around statues, etc.? Those are the people that deserve the ridicule, and without an ounce of defensiveness I would stand up in front of anybody and say that. That's what we all should do and continue to do until the BLACK BEARS finally give up the (racist) ghost.

Yes! This! Keenum was clear on MSUs opinion on the matter. Dan's, while not the best response, was in line with Keenum's. Only idiots that read a fact (most diverse campus) as something insincere ("I got black friends"), are missing it and TRYING to twist the facts.

Hear! Hear! I will give Freeze and company this.....the have balls to come out and say that because their fan base over whelmingly doesn't agree. My story of one person.........I know a preacher...PREACHER.... in north MS and Ole Miss fan. He has "shared" many articles on facebook in opposition of changing the current state flag. Im so disappointed in him. And another.......I know an educated (OM MBA), proper Germantown mom that gets absolutely pissed about the changing of the state flag and ANY mention of dropping Ole Miss or Rebels. But nevermind the fans! Freeze said blah blah blah.......it most be the reality of the situation up there.***

[Thick]

I think some of you are just flat out rationalizing this shit entirely too much. Mississippi State University has no legitimate issues past or present regarding race with flag or without the flag. The redneck that attacked that church and killed those poor souls used the confederate flag as HIS symbol. Now we have never had any symbol of that representing our school, much less our mascot or the name of our mascot representing symbols from the CW. The state flag is our state flag, and if it needs to be changed so be it. I know that when the flag vote took place and the results were made public, that there was no mass exodus of people of color, and no parade celebrating victory. It's stupid in my opinion, but OM has much more to discuss, debate, defend, and/or to change then MSU ever will.

Shit, for God's sake, OM students and/or fans putting a noose around the statue of JM sums it up. Flag be damned, this is more of a Mississippi issue with OM as the side car passenger. The only reasons that this is an issue now is for political votes and some SEC schools and towns can make money off of NCAA tournament events. "Love makes the world go around, but money greases the wheel"!

[Just This Once]

Ole Miss needs to take a strong stance or people will think they may not have distanced themselves as far as they are led to believe. MSU really doesn't need to take a strong stance. I guarantee you the people of Mississippi know the difference in schools.

The people of Mississippi aren't the issue here.

[SheltonChoked]

Well the AP got it right in the story about Freeze today


Both Ole Miss and Mississippi State have already issued statements in support of changing the state flag, which has featured the Confederate emblem since 1894.

I guess Dan wasn't as wishy washy as some of you thought.

Also in the same article:

Ole Miss fans, for decades, waved Confederate flags at football games and other sports events to cheer the Rebels,

No mention of MSU, other than to say we want it changed.

Although to get into MSU History, we did change the mascot in the '60's. Not long after Game of Change, to be more PC. Only took the Rebs 50+ years to do the same thing...

[confucius say]

Might not have any credibility to you, but the ones writing the articles about aren't concerned about "Ole Miss." They are concerned about the flag.

What does that tell you about the ones writing the articles?

[Just This Once]

What does that tell you about the ones writing the articles?

That the media stirs up whatever they want to. This isn't a new revelation.

[confucius say]

That the media stirs up whatever they want to. This isn't a new revelation.

Which is another way of saying "agenda." But regardless of the media's coverage of the use of "ole miss," it doesn't explain how one who knows it's definition can be okay with it's use while also denouncing the flag because it is associated with white supremacy hate groups.

[DancingRabbit]

Well the AP got it right in the story about Freeze today



I guess Dan wasn't as wishy washy as some of you thought.

Also in the same article:


No mention of MSU, other than to say we want it changed.

Although to get into MSU History, we did change the mascot in the '60's. Not long after Game of Change, to be more PC. Only took the Rebs 50+ years to do the same thing...

I think we officially became Bulldogs in 1961 and the Game of Change was in 1963. Not sure why it was to be more PC.

[I seen it dawg]

I think some of you are just flat out rationalizing this shit entirely too much. Mississippi State University has no legitimate issues past or present regarding race with flag or without the flag. The redneck that attacked that church and killed those poor souls used the confederate flag as HIS symbol. Now we have never had any symbol of that representing our school, much less our mascot or the name of our mascot representing symbols from the CW. The state flag is our state flag, and if it needs to be changed so be it. I know that when the flag vote took place and the results were made public, that there was no mass exodus of people of color, and no parade celebrating victory. It's stupid in my opinion, but OM has much more to discuss, debate, defend, and/or to change then MSU ever will.

Shit, for God's sake, OM students and/or fans putting a noose around the statue of JM sums it up. Flag be damned, this is more of a Mississippi issue with OM as the side car passenger. The only reasons that this is an issue now is for political votes and some SEC schools and towns can make money off of NCAA tournament events. "Love makes the world go around, but money greases the wheel"!

Thank you. All this flag shit is stupid. Something for weak minded people to raise hell, whine and bitch about.

[SheltonChoked]

Look up what a meaning of a Maroon is.

And if it was before game of change that's even better.

[Just This Once]

Look up what a meaning of a Maroon is.

And if it was before game of change that's even better.

For those that don't want to Google it, it's a slur for an escaped slave.

[DancingRabbit]

For those that don't want to Google it, it's a slur for an escaped slave.

Didn't know it was a slur. How do you respectfully refer to your escaped slaves?

And I doubt a group of white Ag and Engineering students in 1930s Mississippi thought "hey, let's refer to ourselves as runaway slaves". I think it was the school colors.

[SDDawg]

Y'all are reaching on Maroons, seriously.

[SheltonChoked]

I agree. I don't think it was intentional. But changing the mascot officially to the bulldog was.

[blacklistedbully]

Which one takes a stronger stance:



OR



The first one to me just reads like a politician's answer of say a lot with the right buzz words without actually saying anything. Meanwhile, the second actually says "change the state flag."

Are you kidding? I'd say the first statement is much stronger. In essence, it says we were against it, and are on record as being against it years before this year's tragedy in Charleston. We were strongly in favor of removing it then, and continue to hold the same position, as it is a core belief of our institution. We are proud of our record of diversity, and being a leader in this respect in the SEC.

The 2nd response pales in comparison.

[blacklistedbully]

I agree. I don't think it was intentional. But changing the mascot officially to the bulldog was.

Sorry, but that's just ridiculous. There is no way in hell anybody with half-a-brain could think of our past use of, "Maroons" to mean anything other than our school colors.

This BS makes about as much sense as saying, "We should ban the use of the word, "bust" because it is sometimes used to refer to women's breasts and some might find that sexist!

[Skydawg1]

Y'all are reaching on Maroons, seriously.http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y517/Fotoman7/BugsBunnyMaroon_zps5e1d22dd.jpg

[FootLongDawg]

What mostly amuses me is the number of blatant homosexuals on the Ole Miss boards. Anyone else notice that???

[shannondawg]

Did Dan really say we start out with Southern Miss and End up with Northern Miss? Hilarous, I bet their asses puckered if he did..

[mic]

CDM may have just taken the title away from JWS with this...

long live UNM.....

[Just This Once]

Didn't know it was a slur. How do you respectfully refer to your escaped slaves?

And I doubt a group of white Ag and Engineering students in 1930s Mississippi thought "hey, let's refer to ourselves as runaway slaves". I think it was the school colors.

Oh I don't think it has anything to do with MSU being referred to as the Maroons. I was just pointing out the common meaning for those that didn't care to Google it.

[SheltonChoked]

I'm not saying that we used maroon in a racist manner. I'm saying that we changed it to avoid any implication of our mascot being racist. Exactly opposite of our friends to the north.

Of course we were called the maroons because our color is maroon. But we are the Bulldogs now. Why?

[shannondawg]

Cause a bulldog is a lot tougher and meaner than a maroon. Any more questions?

Anyway there was not the pc police to even think of maroon being anything other than the color maroon back in those days.

[blacklistedbully]

I'm not saying that we used maroon in a racist manner. I'm saying that we changed it to avoid any implication of our mascot being racist. Exactly opposite of our friends to the north.

Of course we were called the maroons because our color is maroon. But we are the Bulldogs now. Why?

From Hailstate.com:

As with most universities, State teams answered to different nicknames through the years. The first squads representing Mississippi A&M College were proud to be called Aggies, and when the school officially became Mississippi State College in 1932 the nickname Maroons, for State's uniform color, gained prominence. Bulldogs became the official title for State teams in 1961, not long after State College was granted university status. Yet references to school teams and athletes as Bulldogs actually go back to early in the century, and this nickname was used almost interchangably with both Aggies and Maroons, since at least 1905.

On November 30 of that year the A&M football team shut out their arch-rivals from the University of Mississippi 11-0 in Jackson, Miss. The campus newspaper, The Reflector, reported: "After the game, filled with that emotion that accompanies every great victory, there was nothing left for the cadets to do but to complete the great victory by showing sympathy for the dead athletic spirit of the University, by having a military funeral parade.

"A coffin was secured, decorated with University colors and a bulldog pup placed on top. It was then placed on the shoulders of a dozen cadets, and the procession started down Capitol Street, preceded by the brass band playing a very pathetic funeral march."

Other newspaper reports of the victory commented on the 'bulldog' style of play by the A&M eleven, and the Bulldog was soon publicly accepted as a school athletic symbol. Accounts of a 1926 pep rally in Meridian, Miss., had another bulldog parading with students.

Use as an official game mascot began in 1935 when coach Major Ralph Sasse, on 'orders' from his team, went to Memphis, Tenn., to select a bulldog. Ptolemy, a gift of the Edgar Webster family, was chosen and the Bulldogs promptly defeated Alabama 20-7.

A litter-mate of Ptolemy became the first mascot called 'Bully' shortly after Sasse's team beat mighty Army 13-7 at West Point that same year, perhaps the greatest victory in MSU football history

[SheltonChoked]

Ok. Blacklisted you win. I really don't care that much. I just think it's funny that MSU chose to distance itself from a potentially racist mascot after alternating between 3. I'm familiar with Ptolemy. And the he bulldog history. I know our colors were not always maroon ( team captain got to pick the colors for a few years).

I do not think any mascot MSU has ever had was racist based.

The position I still take is if we had not changed officially to Bulldogs from Maroons, it would have the same negative perception as Col Reb does. And we would have to change. However, unlike Ole Miss, we changed our mascot before it was an issue.

In a similar manner, the reason State was not integrated first was because ole miss was a bigger flash point. I'd argue that it would have been met with the same indifference Dr Holmes found. And that is not what the Civil Rights Movement needed.

Anyway, I'm tired of this debate. I think MSU could have come out stronger against the flag, but I don't think they had too. MSU has, by its actions and history, distanced itself from everything the battle flag stood for and represents. By protesting too much you look fake. I mean how do you prove you are not something. It's hard to prove a negative.

[blacklistedbully]

Ok. Blacklisted you win. I really don't care that much. I just think it's funny that MSU chose to distance itself from a potentially racist mascot after alternating between 3. I'm familiar with Ptolemy. And the he bulldog history. I know our colors were not always maroon ( team captain got to pick the colors for a few years).

I do not think any mascot MSU has ever had was racist based.

The position I still take is if we had not changed officially to Bulldogs from Maroons, it would have the same negative perception as Col Reb does. And we would have to change. However, unlike Ole Miss, we changed our mascot before it was an issue.

In a similar manner, the reason State was not integrated first was because ole miss was a bigger flash point. I'd argue that it would have been met with the same indifference Dr Holmes found. And that is not what the Civil Rights Movement needed.

Anyway, I'm tired of this debate. I think MSU could have come out stronger against the flag, but I don't think they had too. MSU has, by its actions and history, distanced itself from everything the battle flag stood for and represents. By protesting too much you look fake. I mean how do you prove you are not something. It's hard to prove a negative.

Disagree. As others have pointed out, it's irrational to equate the, "rebel" nickname with a "maroon" nickname that would be a GIGANTIC leap to associate with the, "escaped slave" definition. Ole Miss chose, "Rebels" precisely because it was a reference to the Confederacy. MSU was called the, "Maroons" precisely because of our school colors.

There is simply no way anyone of sound mind could possibly assume any racist tie to our previous, "Maroons" nickname. Any racist motive would have been diametrically opposed to the use of, "Maroons" as a nickname. There is simply no way in hell anyone would think a racist would want to be nicknamed after, "an escaped slave".

Also, given our school's response to the '63 basketball team sneaking out of state to play Loyola in the, "Game Of Change", particularly the way over 1,000 students greeted the team warmly at the airport on their return from the loss, speaks volumes about how the culture was different at MSU than at Ole Miss, just as it continues to be to this day, Now also consider what Richard Holmes, the first black student to enroll at MSU, experienced. It was a mere 3 years after the Meredith enrollment at TSUN. Values do not change that much in 3 years. Dr. Holmes positive experiences from day 1 at MSU were light years ahead of what Meredith experienced at TSUN. That kind of difference does not occur because, "we had the chance to learn from TSUN's mistake.

The reality is, Ole Miss has always, from the beginning, been populated in part by those Mississippians who felt they were a, "privileged" or "elite" class, including the descendants of the, "Old South" plantation-owners, and those who ran with them in social circles. In fact, one of the reasons there is a Mississippi State is because they couldn't get prospective students interested in AG, Eng, etc to go to Ole Miss. They simply could not stand the kind of obnoxious, self-absorbed egotistical prick that went there.

What is amazing is how much of that has carried over to this day. Even kids that come from less than elite backgrounds buy into that elitist BS, somehow thinking that they too, by association with that institution, by immersing themselves in that Old South, TSSRA ethos become a part of that, "Mississippi royalty".

Of course, it's a crock, but not to a huge percentage of those delusional dipshits. And while there are always plenty of exceptions, plenty of good people that also go there, one can tell they are the exception, rather than the rule, just by observing what has gone on there through the decades...the generations, and by considering their culture and the things that still remain important to them...Confederate flag, TSSRA, singing Dixie, Col Reb, etc.

And when they have an administrator with the courage or at least good sense to realize changes need to be made, at least half of them get up in arms and run that person out-of-town-on-a-rail! Did our student body or alumni react that way with Dr. Colvard, or with any of the members of the basketball team that played in that game? How about the fact that our athletes had wanted to go years before, and before Meredith forceably entered TSUN. Is it not likely those athletes from '59, '61 & '62 shared a sense of right & wrong that mirrored that of the majority of our student body?

[SheltonChoked]

Ok. I'm with you everywhere but the mascot. And I'm willing to be wrong about that.

[Bully13]

Not sure how you got that. The person I was replying to said he couldn't understand why ANYBODY would be upset with Dan's comments. I pointed out a guy I work with every day that is black and graduated from MSU who is upset with Dan's comments. Does that not qualify?

Bear troll

[BulldogBear]

Bear troll
"All too easy..."

[Bass Chaser]

^^^^^ETA: I guess I got suckered in.

Just this once, where did you get maroon was racial slur for escaped slaves?

From what I've found (using Google) the racial slur was for trouble-making slaves-to-be on the slave ship; they were left somewhere - "marooned".

Another use of maroon was to identify escaped slave communities that basically made it on their own.

[SheltonChoked]

The Oxford English Dictionary

US ENGLISHMAROON
There are 3 main definitions of maroon in English:123
Maroon 3
See definition in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary
Syllabification: Ma?roon
Pronunciation: /məˈro͞on/
noun

A member of any of various communities in parts of the Caribbean who were originally descended from escaped slaves. In the 18th century Jamaican Maroons fought two wars against the British settlers, both of which ended with treaties affirming the independence of the Maroons.
EXAMPLE SENTENCES
Origin

Mid 17th century: from French marron 'feral', from Spanish cimarr?n 'wild', (as a noun) 'escaped slave'; compare with Seminole.