Cohen's press conference

[MsStateBaseball]

Again I'm disappointed.

Nothing came out of it. He is so secretive, us fans get nothing from this.

Only tidbit is wait until next week, draft, to find out about current roster players returning, which means they (some returnees) don't have a scholarship, the signees do.

Very disappointed.

[mparkerfd20]

Just a big steaming pile of poo.

[Coach34]

exactly what I thought it would be

[Homedawg]

How can anyone be surprised? Smh.

[Smitty]

Target is firmly on his back now. Put up or shut up.

[maroonmania]

In the end does it really matter what he tells us? The proof will be in the pudding of next season's results. Either he gets this mess turned around into a good baseball product and we are all reasonably happy or he doesn't and we likely move on. Everything else is just noise at this point. The only other real intruiging factor that has a major bearing on next season's results is who among our signees gets sucked up by pro ball.

[State82]

In the end does it really matter what he tells us? The proof will be in the pudding of next season's results. Either he gets this mess turned around into a good baseball product and we are all reasonably happy or he doesn't and we likely move on. Everything else is just noise at this point. The only other real intruiging factor that has a major bearing on next season's results is who among our signees gets sucked up by pro ball.

This pretty much sums it up in a nutshell. Just produce, John. Don't care how you go about it. Just produce. And next year, not the year after.

[Todd4State]

exactly what I thought it would be

Me too. I'm not sure what people were expecting- but if they were thinking that he was going to call out players, coaches, recant his coaching style, etc. That wasn't going to happen. Cohen is not going to "put on a show" at a press conference.

[MSUDawg4Life]

This is funny.

It's like y'all expected him to bash himself and to say the fans know more about coaching winning baseball than he does.

[Dawgface]

This is funny.

It's like y'all expected him to bash himself and to say the fans know more about coaching winning baseball than he does.

He should have acknowledged we know more. We all know we do. :)

[Smitty]

He should have shown a little more passion about the position he holds. There was no FIRE or enthusiasm shown whatsoever.

"Look this will not happen again. It's my fault and we are going to fix it! This was unacceptable from a proud Mississippi State program and I will do better."

No we got "Ehhhh yeah uhh you know some bad luck were really close, you know uh adjusting to the seams, ehh our park plays different, uh you know we'll see how the draft turns out"

[missouridawg]

Again I'm disappointed.

Nothing came out of it. He is so secretive, us fans get nothing from this.

Only tidbit is wait until next week, draft, to find out about current roster players returning, which means they (some returnees) don't have a scholarship, the signees do.

Very disappointed.

I can't believe that Cohen didn't take time to read your blog or your tweets and implement some of your changes. Cohen just doesn't get it, does he?

[Smitty]

Cohen bootlickers arise!

[MadDawg]

He could have said something like this:

"We've had a couple of disappointing years by our standards which we created. There's no one to blame [but] me for that. I'll take responsibility for that. And you've heard me say it -- I want those expectations. We don't run from them."

[shoeless joe]

Cohen bootlickers arise!

So if someone thinks Cohen knows more about the game then you they are a "bootlicker"? Got it.

[Tbonewannabe]

We either make a regional and he keeps his job or he doesn't and then we talk about who the next coach will be. It wasn't like he would come out and say he was firing mingione at a press conference. Now if we don't change anything, he has no slack next year. We lose to a SWAC team then and he would have to do more than back into a regional some where.

[MsStateBaseball]

OK guys, I'll tell you what I will do. I'm going to ask if I can interview Cohen. I'm talking August or September. Once school starts and things die down from draft, bad or good and the sting from this year. I'm going to let it be known the type of questions I'm going to ask. Why not, it won't kill me.

[MSUDawg4Life]

OK guys, I'll tell you what I will do. I'm going to ask if I can interview Cohen. I'm talking August or September. Once school starts and things die down from draft, bad or good and the sting from this year. I'm going to let it be known the type of questions I'm going to ask. Why not, it won't kill me.

I hope he cusses your azz out if you go to him with some stupid stuff.

[engie]

He should have shown a little more passion about the position he holds. There was no FIRE or enthusiasm shown whatsoever.

"Look this will not happen again. It's my fault and we are going to fix it! This was unacceptable from a proud Mississippi State program and I will do better."

No we got "Ehhhh yeah uhh you know some bad luck were really close, you know uh adjusting to the seams, ehh our park plays different, uh you know we'll see how the draft turns out"

Yet when he shows fire and passion in the press and basically says "this is f'n ridiculous and we are going to go out and get better players that can throw strikes" -- he is crucified for that too. But you probably hadn't read moneyball and decided you were a baseball expert yet when all of that happened.

He literally can not win with our fanbase. Nothing he does is the right thing. He shows fire and rips guys -- half our fanbase flips out about it. He withholds it publicly(when everyone need only look at the size of the recruiting class to know it is happening privately) -- half our fanbase flips out about it.

[Homedawg]

OK guys, I'll tell you what I will do. I'm going to ask if I can interview Cohen. I'm talking August or September. Once school starts and things die down from draft, bad or good and the sting from this year. I'm going to let it be known the type of questions I'm going to ask. Why not, it won't kill me.

THat should go well.

[Out of Bounds]

Cohen hasn't had a couple of disappointing yrs. He's had one.

[turkish]

MadDawg, was this an actual quote? I didnt listen.

[mparkerfd20]

Cohen hasn't had a couple of disappointing yrs. He's had one.

Try again Bo. He's had 3 out of 7.

[messageboardsuperhero]

Try again Bo. He's had 3 out of 7.

The fact that some of our fans count those first two against Cohen proves one of two things (or both):

1. They really have no idea about the extent that Polk screwed him, or
2. They just don't like the guy and are looking for reasons to downplay him.

I personally think it's a damn shame that those first two years even go on Cohen's official record and only look at post-2010 when evaluating him.

[KB21]

Yet when he shows fire and passion in the press and basically says "this is f'n ridiculous and we are going to go out and get better players that can throw strikes" -- he is crucified for that too. But you probably hadn't read moneyball and decided you were a baseball expert yet when all of that happened.

He literally can not win with our fanbase. Nothing he does is the right thing. He shows fire and rips guys -- half our fanbase flips out about it. He withholds it publicly(when everyone need only look at the size of the recruiting class to know it is happening privately) -- half our fanbase flips out about it.

This.

Was it not John Cohen who said that there were some players on this team that had not earned the privilege to wear the uniform after the OM series?

[CadaverDawg]

He literally can not win with our fanbase.

Not going 8-22 he can't. Few could

Winning is the cure

The crazies will hide if we're winning

[Todd4State]

Yet when he shows fire and passion in the press and basically says "this is f'n ridiculous and we are going to go out and get better players that can throw strikes" -- he is crucified for that too. But you probably hadn't read moneyball and decided you were a baseball expert yet when all of that happened.

He literally can not win with our fanbase. Nothing he does is the right thing. He shows fire and rips guys -- half our fanbase flips out about it. He withholds it publicly(when everyone need only look at the size of the recruiting class to know it is happening privately) -- half our fanbase flips out about it.

This is a big reason why I do not understand MSU fans. It's actually quite remarkable what he has accomplished given the actual support he has and the fact that he has to deal with Ole Miss and USM people doing everything they can to stop him.

The Ron Polk sect got to STFU for four years until we laid this turd of a season- and as soon as it did it's "we don't need a new stadium if we're not going to play better" and "I don't like Cohen ever since he made an ass of himself" in one breath- and then saying "we should have tried to hire Kevin O'Sullivan"- who has made an ass out of himself repeatedly when playing us in the very next breath.

I don't understand why MSU fans think that the baseball players can do no wrong and that it is all TOTALLY on the coaches? It's like the players are all above reproach and if they make an error, strike out, or give up a home run- well, it's all Cohen's fault.

And yet, when Dak throws an INT, or we have a horrible defensive game plan, I don't see ANY State fans blaming Dan. It's a double standard.

[Todd4State]

Not going 8-22 he can't. Few could

Winning is the cure

But here's the thing- if he blamed this season on injuries and the new baseball affecting our team the whole year, our fans would have railed him for "making excuses".

He takes the high road- and then he gets accused of not being able to adjust without even being given a chance to adjust. And having a history of adjusting. He's basically being ripped for building our team that had a chance to win a NC based on the rules at the time- and then almost pulling it off.

If he had been given a year or two heads up, we would have been fine.

[CadaverDawg]

But here's the thing- if he blamed this season on injuries and the new baseball affecting our team the whole year, our fans would have railed him for "making excuses".

He takes the high road- and then he gets accused of not being able to adjust without even being given a chance to adjust. And having a history of adjusting. He's basically being ripped for building our team that had a chance to win a NC based on the rules at the time- and then almost pulling it off.

If he had been given a year or two heads up, we would have been fine.

Man I hear you, and I agree. I'm just telling you why. At least they aren't making the decisions. Hopefully Cohen does what we think he can do next year and makes this a moot point. But part of a kick ass baseball fan base is more crazies and less patience. And I doubt Cohen would have it any other way, bc that's also what makes our baseball fans so great

Our team has been toast for over a month and baseball threads dominate our discussion. Ha

[engie]

Man I hear you, and I agree. I'm just telling you why. At least they aren't making the decisions. Hopefully Cohen does what we think he can do next year and makes this a moot point. But part of a kick ass baseball fan base is more crazies and less patience. And I doubt Cohen would have it any other way, bc that's also what makes our baseball fans so great

Our team has been toast for over a month and baseball threads dominate our discussion. Ha

It's nice to have you back off the cliff and into your normal logical approach!

[CadaverDawg]

It's nice to have you back off the cliff and into your normal logical approach!

Never went off a cliff. I still think we have major issues...I just also believe Cohen has proven in the past he can adjust, so I'm not one of those that wants him run off. I criticize when deserved, praise when deserved, and support until he proves he can't fix it. He hasn't had that chance yet.

[Coach34]

And yet, when Dak throws an INT, or we have a horrible defensive game plan, I don't see ANY State fans blaming Dan. It's a double standard.

Hold on homey- Mullen's 1st half game plans for Bama and Ole Missus were turds. Ive said this 50 times. Against both in the 2nd half we stopped running sideways and started going straight ahead- and we ran the ball better in both games. Shit, Shump averaged 6.0 yards per carry vs Ole Missus cause he doesnt do the sideways BS. But Mullen gets alot of credit because he made very good adjustments at half- just dug too big of a hole.

Cohen has a shorter leash with half the fanbase because he wasnt Polk's pick. He needs to get his ass back in a Regional next year and all will be fine.

[Todd4State]

Hold on homey- Mullen's 1st half game plans for Bama and Ole Missus were turds. Ive said this 50 times. Against both in the 2nd half we stopped running sideways and started going straight ahead- and we ran the ball better in both games. Shit, Shump averaged 6.0 yards per carry vs Ole Missus cause he doesnt do the sideways BS. But Mullen gets alot of credit because he made very good adjustments at half- just dug too big of a hole.

Cohen has a shorter leash with half the fanbase because he wasnt Polk's pick. He needs to get his ass back in a Regional next year and all will be fine.

The difference is even though you are criticizing Dan, you are also giving him credit for what he has done well.

It's crazy to me that a guy could take us to the NC round- which has never been done before in ANY sport for us- but let's run his ass out of here because Polk didn't think he would be a good fit the first chance we get. It just tells me that winning doesn't take precedence for some of our fans.

[sandwolf]

The difference is even though you are criticizing Dan, you are also giving him credit for what he has done well.

So if Mullen goes 4-8 this year, you don't think that he will be getting a similar level of criticism?

[KB21]

This is a big reason why I do not understand MSU fans. It's actually quite remarkable what he has accomplished given the actual support he has and the fact that he has to deal with Ole Miss and USM people doing everything they can to stop him.

The Ron Polk sect got to STFU for four years until we laid this turd of a season- and as soon as it did it's "we don't need a new stadium if we're not going to play better" and "I don't like Cohen ever since he made an ass of himself" in one breath- and then saying "we should have tried to hire Kevin O'Sullivan"- who has made an ass out of himself repeatedly when playing us in the very next breath.

I don't understand why MSU fans think that the baseball players can do no wrong and that it is all TOTALLY on the coaches? It's like the players are all above reproach and if they make an error, strike out, or give up a home run- well, it's all Cohen's fault.

And yet, when Dak throws an INT, or we have a horrible defensive game plan, I don't see ANY State fans blaming Dan. It's a double standard.

IMO, this is not exclusive to MSU fans. Fans in general have to have one person to blame for something. Call it the illusion of control, where the impression is that one person can control the outcomes. Yes, there are things that you can criticize about his coaching or the coaching of the assistants, but that is the case with every coach out there. There is not a perfect coach at any level.

[KB21]

But here's the thing- if he blamed this season on injuries and the new baseball affecting our team the whole year, our fans would have railed him for "making excuses".

He takes the high road- and then he gets accused of not being able to adjust without even being given a chance to adjust. And having a history of adjusting. He's basically being ripped for building our team that had a chance to win a NC based on the rules at the time- and then almost pulling it off.

If he had been given a year or two heads up, we would have been fine.

Even in the press conference, Cohen mentions this. He clearly said that pitchers that have succeeded at MSU have had sinking action on their pitches. He then said the ball has changed that, and now velocity is more important than sinking action. Look at the pitchers that are coming in this year and are committed for next year. There are several that are 6'3" and above in height with projectible frames. He even said that he has been recruiting more power guys lately as well. He actually said what most wanted to hear, but they chose to ignore it.

[KB21]

The difference is even though you are criticizing Dan, you are also giving him credit for what he has done well.

It's crazy to me that a guy could take us to the NC round- which has never been done before in ANY sport for us- but let's run his ass out of here because Polk didn't think he would be a good fit the first chance we get. It just tells me that winning doesn't take precedence for some of our fans.

As a Polk guy myself, don't include me in that group that wants to run off Cohen because he wasn't Polk's pick. Cohen is one of our guys, and I am behind him 100%.

[smootness]

He should have shown a little more passion about the position he holds. There was no FIRE or enthusiasm shown whatsoever.

"Look this will not happen again. It's my fault and we are going to fix it! This was unacceptable from a proud Mississippi State program and I will do better."

No we got "Ehhhh yeah uhh you know some bad luck were really close, you know uh adjusting to the seams, ehh our park plays different, uh you know we'll see how the draft turns out"

This would solve nothing.

[engie]

Yet in all this -- Polk's hand picked successor went to a school with the same number of postseason appearances in it's history that Louisville had when Dan McDonnell arrived there. McDonnell is probably about to go to his 4th CWS in 9 years. Raffo has yet to make a postseason in 7 years and is something like 4 games over .500 overall. Granted that Louisville is a better gig now and always was monetarily -- but it still had to be built. The comparison between those two is perhaps the biggest reason that OM was built in the first place. While Polk had long since quit on recruiting -- he hadn't done anything to limit Raffo. Raffo just wasn't very good at it and was laughably inept in comparison to McDonnell.

No one that I'm even interested in having a discussion with can honestly tell me that Tommy Raffo was the right guy for our job at the time...

[maroonmania]

Cohen has a shorter leash with half the fanbase because he wasnt Polk's pick. He needs to get his ass back in a Regional next year and all will be fine.

He's also on a shorter leash because overall MSU fans have higher expectations in baseball than in football. Always have, always will.

[War Machine Dawg]

Try again Bo. He's had 3 out of 7.

4 out of 7. Only 3 seasons above .500 in SEC play. An SEC win percentage of .416. Career SEC win percentage of .420 including his time at UK. At what point is Cohen what his record says he is? A vastly below average coach who struggles mightily against in-conference competition.

[War Machine Dawg]

Yet in all this -- Polk's hand picked successor went to a school with the same number of postseason appearances in it's history that Louisville had when Dan McDonnell arrived there. McDonnell is probably about to go to his 4th CWS in 9 years. Raffo has yet to make a postseason in 7 years and is something like 4 games over .500 overall. Granted that Louisville is a better gig now and always was monetarily -- but it still had to be built. The comparison between those two is perhaps the biggest reason that OM was built in the first place. While Polk had long since quit on recruiting -- he hadn't done anything to limit Raffo. Raffo just wasn't very good at it and was laughably inept in comparison to McDonnell.

No one that I'm even interested in having a discussion with can honestly tell me that Tommy Raffo was the right guy for our job at the time...

http://i.imgur.com/xHFRtju.gif

[smootness]

4 out of 7. Only 3 seasons above .500 in SEC play. An SEC win percentage of .416. Career SEC win percentage of .420 including his time at UK. At what point is Cohen what his record says he is? A vastly below average coach who struggles mightily against in-conference competition.

Because at best, that is an oversimplification that removes context and results in falsehoods.

He took over Kentucky. Garbage Kentucky. They went 14-45 in the SEC his first 2 years because it was garbage Kentucky. Then he finished 39-30-1 over his last 3 years, including an SEC title. At Kentucky. Garbage Kentucky.

He then took over State at a time when it was in a mess similar to what Kentucky was when Cohen took over. We went 15-44 over his first 2 years because he inherited a mess. We then went 64-56 over the next 3 years. This year was obviously awful.

But that is an objective look at his record. Including his first 2 years at Kentucky and State as equal to his other years is like blaming Howland for his team's losing in the first 2 years of his tenure everywhere he's been while ignoring the state of those programs when he showed up.

He won an SEC title at Kentucky and was 2 games away from a national title here. Calling him a vastly below-average coach is nothing other than sheer stupidity.

[War Machine Dawg]

Because at best, that is an oversimplification that removes context and results in falsehoods.

He took over Kentucky. Garbage Kentucky. They went 14-45 in the SEC his first 2 years because it was garbage Kentucky. Then he finished 39-30-1 over his last 3 years, including an SEC title. At Kentucky. Garbage Kentucky.

He then took over State at a time when it was in a mess similar to what Kentucky was when Cohen took over. We went 15-44 over his first 2 years because he inherited a mess. We then went 64-56 over the next 3 years. This year was obviously awful.

But that is an objective look at his record. Including his first 2 years at Kentucky and State as equal to his other years is like blaming Howland for his team's losing in the first 2 years of his tenure everywhere he's been while ignoring the state of those programs when he showed up.

He won an SEC title at Kentucky and was 2 games away from a national title here. Calling him a vastly below-average coach is nothing other than sheer stupidity.

I don't disagree with any of that. Context is definitely important. But you're eventually what your record says you are. I think after nearly 15 years in the SEC it's fair to ask that question in regards to Cohen. Hell, I noticed C34 mentioning Cohen having a "short leash" with our fans in this very thread. Yet he's in Year 7 with a fan base that has been patient to a fault with its coaches in every sport - Stans, Croom, JWS, Polk II, etc. Why is it taboo to even dare suggest that Cohen may not be what everyone hopes he is? It shouldn't take a decade to rebuild at MSU in baseball. At UK, it's understandable because UK literally doesn't give a damn about sports not called basketball. Not so at MSU, particularly in OUR SPORT, baseball.

Seriously, why can we not have a rational discussion about this? It pisses me off how divided our fan base is because of Polk's temper tantrum. If it were up to me, we'd strip his name from everything at MSU and completely refuse to acknowledge him until after he passes. I'll never, ever forgive or respect him for how he handled his exit.

[smootness]

I don't disagree with any of that. Context is definitely important. But you're eventually what your record says you are. I think after nearly 15 years in the SEC it's fair to ask that question in regards to Cohen. Hell, I noticed C34 mentioning Cohen having a "short leash" with our fans in this very thread. Yet he's in Year 7 with a fan base that has been patient to a fault with its coaches in every sport - Stans, Croom, JWS, Polk II, etc. Why is it taboo to even dare suggest that Cohen may not be what everyone hopes he is? It shouldn't take a decade to rebuild at MSU in baseball. At UK, it's understandable because UK literally doesn't give a damn about sports not called basketball. Not so at MSU, particularly in OUR SPORT, baseball.

Seriously, why can we not have a rational discussion about this? It pisses me off how divided our fan base is because of Polk's temper tantrum. If it were up to me, we'd strip his name from everything at MSU and completely refuse to acknowledge him until after he passes. I'll never, ever forgive or respect him for how he handled his exit.

Because it didn't take him a decade. He already rebuilt State baseball. We went from utter garbage to a SR in 3 years and playing for the national title in 5 years.

This year was a down year. A very down year. But watching Cohen build us up from the bottom for 6 years, then after a down year reevaluating his whole tenure and throwing his first 2 years in doesn't make any sense.

He has to turn it around and quickly. Nobody disputes that. If he doesn't, no one will have a problem with making a change. But he is FAR from vastly below-average; one down year, no matter how down, doesn't change what he did in the 6 years before that. He deserves the opportunity to fix it, and if he can't, he'll be justifiably gone.

Saying, 'Context is definitely important. But you're eventually what your record says you are,' is just saying, 'Context is important, but screw context.'

[KB21]

I don't disagree with any of that. Context is definitely important. But you're eventually what your record says you are. I think after nearly 15 years in the SEC it's fair to ask that question in regards to Cohen. Hell, I noticed C34 mentioning Cohen having a "short leash" with our fans in this very thread. Yet he's in Year 7 with a fan base that has been patient to a fault with its coaches in every sport - Stans, Croom, JWS, Polk II, etc. Why is it taboo to even dare suggest that Cohen may not be what everyone hopes he is? It shouldn't take a decade to rebuild at MSU in baseball. At UK, it's understandable because UK literally doesn't give a damn about sports not called basketball. Not so at MSU, particularly in OUR SPORT, baseball.

Seriously, why can we not have a rational discussion about this? It pisses me off how divided our fan base is because of Polk's temper tantrum. If it were up to me, we'd strip his name from everything at MSU and completely refuse to acknowledge him until after he passes. I'll never, ever forgive or respect him for how he handled his exit.

We played for a national championship in Cohen's 5th year here. It has not taken 10 years to build this back up.

[KB21]

Because it didn't take him a decade. He already rebuilt State baseball. We went from utter garbage to a SR in 3 years and playing for the national title in 5 years.

This year was a down year. A very down year. But watching Cohen build us up from the bottom for 6 years, then after a down year reevaluating his whole tenure and throwing his first 2 years in doesn't make any sense.

He has to turn it around and quickly. Nobody disputes that. If he doesn't, no one will have a problem with making a change. But he is FAR from vastly below-average; one down year, no matter how down, doesn't change what he did in the 6 years before that. He deserves the opportunity to fix it, and if he can't, he'll be justifiably gone.

Saying, 'Context is definitely important. But you're eventually what your record says you are,' is just saying, 'Context is important, but screw context.'

Yes, and even Paul Manieri at LSU had two consecutive losing SEC seasons after winning the CWS in 2009.

[engie]

It shouldn't take a decade to rebuild at MSU in baseball. Not so at MSU, particularly in OUR SPORT, baseball.

This is my holdup. I consider myself pretty SEC baseball cultured. Been around several programs well beyond what would be considered "normal" and as such, I can exit the "MSU fan" lens pretty easily and look at it logically. Baseball hasn't been "our sport" since John Cohen walked off the field as a player and Skip decided it was time to start owning Polk.

What makes us exceptional in baseball? Our stadium? Hasn't been better than 4th in our division for one day of John Cohen's tenure. Facilities? Will be 6th in the west upon the new stadium groundbreaking. Our scholarship situation? Terrible. Our fan support? Well, that's great the 3-4 weekends a year it really shows up(when we are good).

Yes, we have alot of fans that care deeply. Arguably more than anyone else including LSU. That much is true. In theory, that should translate -- but the reality is that it doesn't like it should -- because that fanbase is split with half of it being stuck looking through the lens of 1985 and 1989 and expecting that to come back without any further investment. That group hates Cohen.

- By all-time win percentage(in conference), we're the 5th best team in the 12 team league.
- From 01-10, we were 11th in a 12 team conference ahead of only Kentucky. Not barely eleventh either.
We are basically a nights out 94 recruiting class away from being an overall national afterthought.

Do I think we "can" win big here? Absolutely. Do I believe Cohen can do it? Personally I do. But he's needed patience and assurances that he's never received. I get the "7 years" approach -- but the truth is -- we haven't had a complete team here yet. Every one of them has been flawed. There are factors outside of our control that have hurt -- and factors within our control that have hurt. But it's really hard to question talent level when you are sending 7 guys to the Cape and you are fretting over half the signing class and MLB.

I honestly think that we have a core group of players, if things go right on and we hit on a few of the new guys, to make a deep run next year carried by young guys. Those young guys will then essentially be set up with a tremendous opportunity to come back and win the whole damn thing. Yes, it is idealistic. But I have a feeling people will start to come around as they see these freshmen walk through the door...

[Todd4State]

So if Mullen goes 4-8 this year, you don't think that he will be getting a similar level of criticism?

There would be criticism, but it would be different. You wouldn't see people talking about how we shouldn't expand the football stadium or wanting to see Dan throw a fit at a press conference or that shows that he "doesn't care" or people complaining about him yelling at players and that's how they knew he wouldn't work out.

[Todd4State]

IMO, this is not exclusive to MSU fans. Fans in general have to have one person to blame for something. Call it the illusion of control, where the impression is that one person can control the outcomes. Yes, there are things that you can criticize about his coaching or the coaching of the assistants, but that is the case with every coach out there. There is not a perfect coach at any level.

I don't know. Cardinals fans aren't like that. I think it's the GOB mentality that some MSU fans have that's different- but it's not so much about the coach having control as much as it is the fan having control. Whether that's in the form of making the coach not cussing anymore (I made Cohen stop cussing because I didn't want to hear that foul language and there are kids around) or keeping a seat out of nothing more than nostalgia, or clinging to the idea that the game is never going to pass a coach by.

You don't see Cardinals fans clamoring for Whitey Herzog, Red Schoendist, or even LaRussa to come back. They had their time and then they move on and they are loved for what they did. And you sure as hell don't see Cardinals fans threatening to not support the team because they don't like Matheny for whatever reason.

[Todd4State]

As a Polk guy myself, don't include me in that group that wants to run off Cohen because he wasn't Polk's pick. Cohen is one of our guys, and I am behind him 100%.

Oh, I don't. I like Ron Polk too actually. I blame LT infinitely more for that fiasco, although I can understand why you can't tell. Heck, my Dad played for Polk and if Polk didn't allow him to keep his scholarship his senior year even though my Dad was hurt, I don't know what would have happened to my Dad. Polk certainly could have cut him, but he didn't.

[KB21]

This is my holdup. I consider myself pretty SEC baseball cultured. Been around several programs well beyond what would be considered "normal" and as such, I can exit the "MSU fan" lens pretty easily and look at it logically. Baseball hasn't been "our sport" since John Cohen walked off the field as a player and Skip decided it was time to start owning Polk.

What makes us exceptional in baseball? Our stadium? Hasn't been better than 4th in our division for one day of John Cohen's tenure. Facilities? Will be 6th in the west upon the new stadium groundbreaking. Our scholarship situation? Terrible. Our fan support? Well, that's great the 3-4 weekends a year it really shows up(when we are good).

Yes, we have alot of fans that care deeply. Arguably more than anyone else including LSU. That much is true. In theory, that should translate -- but the reality is that it doesn't like it should -- because that fanbase is split with half of it being stuck looking through the lens of 1985 and 1989 and expecting that to come back without any further investment. That group hates Cohen.

- By all-time win percentage(in conference), we're the 5th best team in the 12 team league.
- From 01-10, we were 11th in a 12 team conference ahead of only Kentucky. Not barely eleventh either.
We are basically a nights out 94 recruiting class away from being an overall national afterthought.

Do I think we "can" win big here? Absolutely. Do I believe Cohen can do it? Personally I do. But he's needed patience and assurances that he's never received. I get the "7 years" approach -- but the truth is -- we haven't had a complete team here yet. Every one of them has been flawed. There are factors outside of our control that have hurt -- and factors within our control that have hurt. But it's really hard to question talent level when you are sending 7 guys to the Cape and you are fretting over half the signing class and MLB.

I honestly think that we have a core group of players, if things go right on and we hit on a few of the new guys, to make a deep run next year carried by young guys. Those young guys will then essentially be set up with a tremendous opportunity to come back and win the whole damn thing. Yes, it is idealistic. But I have a feeling people will start to come around as they see these freshmen walk through the door...

I agree with most of what you said here.

The class that are rising juniors in 2016 was a class that was rated the 2nd best in the country. Dakota Hudson, Austin Sexton, Zac Houston, Vance Tatum, Reid Humphreys, Brent Rooker, Gavin Collins, and Levi Mintz are all a part of that class. Rooker is a sophomore classification in that class.

[Todd4State]

This is my holdup. I consider myself pretty SEC baseball cultured. Been around several programs well beyond what would be considered "normal" and as such, I can exit the "MSU fan" lens pretty easily and look at it logically. Baseball hasn't been "our sport" since John Cohen walked off the field as a player and Skip decided it was time to start owning Polk.

What makes us exceptional in baseball? Our stadium? Hasn't been better than 4th in our division for one day of John Cohen's tenure. Facilities? Will be 6th in the west upon the new stadium groundbreaking. Our scholarship situation? Terrible. Our fan support? Well, that's great the 3-4 weekends a year it really shows up(when we are good).

Yes, we have alot of fans that care deeply. Arguably more than anyone else including LSU. That much is true. In theory, that should translate -- but the reality is that it doesn't like it should -- because that fanbase is split with half of it being stuck looking through the lens of 1985 and 1989 and expecting that to come back without any further investment. That group hates Cohen.

- By all-time win percentage(in conference), we're the 5th best team in the 12 team league.
- From 01-10, we were 11th in a 12 team conference ahead of only Kentucky. Not barely eleventh either.
We are basically a nights out 94 recruiting class away from being an overall national afterthought.

Do I think we "can" win big here? Absolutely. Do I believe Cohen can do it? Personally I do. But he's needed patience and assurances that he's never received. I get the "7 years" approach -- but the truth is -- we haven't had a complete team here yet. Every one of them has been flawed. There are factors outside of our control that have hurt -- and factors within our control that have hurt. But it's really hard to question talent level when you are sending 7 guys to the Cape and you are fretting over half the signing class and MLB.

I honestly think that we have a core group of players, if things go right on and we hit on a few of the new guys, to make a deep run next year carried by young guys. Those young guys will then essentially be set up with a tremendous opportunity to come back and win the whole damn thing. Yes, it is idealistic. But I have a feeling people will start to come around as they see these freshmen walk through the door...

Very well said. To GO forward, we have to MOVE forward and let the past be the past. In baseball you have to constantly adapt and adjust because the game changes every so often. The 1990's was a big power era, and then a couple of years ago it was almost impossible to hit a home run- and now it's changed again.

Our program was in REALLY bad shape in 2008. In a lot of ways. Our scholarship situation was so out of whack that we are JUST NOW getting it straightened out. And as much as I have criticized us going JUCO heavy, I understand it in a way because we NEED attrition to get things back in order. We were having like a REALLY big class one year and then a really small one like 2012. When that happens, you eventually end up with very few juniors and seniors at some point in time that have actually been through the SEC their entire careers- JUCO's have to adjust like freshmen do to an extent- and when you have very few juniors and seniors, you likely end up with poor leadership for a hopefully short period of time.

[Todd4State]

I agree with most of what you said here.

The class that are rising juniors in 2016 was a class that was rated the 2nd best in the country. Dakota Hudson, Austin Sexton, Zac Houston, Vance Tatum, Reid Humphreys, Brent Rooker, Gavin Collins, and Levi Mintz are all a part of that class. Rooker is a sophomore classification in that class.

And all of those guys except for Mintz and Rooker are playing in the Cape this summer.

[sandwolf]

There would be criticism, but it would be different. You wouldn't see people talking about how we shouldn't expand the football stadium or wanting to see Dan throw a fit at a press conference or that shows that he "doesn't care" or people complaining about him yelling at players and that's how they knew he wouldn't work out.

Ehhh, you can argue semantics all you want to, but it would pretty much be the same. There is no double standard......when we field a shitty football team, our fans jump Mullen's ass just like they are jumping Cohen's ass right now. Just because there are a few dumbasses that don't think we should build a new stadium and a few more that think Cohen should be fired after one shitty year, doesn't mean that a double standard exists.

[maroonmania]

I don't disagree with any of that. Context is definitely important. But you're eventually what your record says you are. I think after nearly 15 years in the SEC it's fair to ask that question in regards to Cohen. Hell, I noticed C34 mentioning Cohen having a "short leash" with our fans in this very thread. Yet he's in Year 7 with a fan base that has been patient to a fault with its coaches in every sport - Stans, Croom, JWS, Polk II, etc. Why is it taboo to even dare suggest that Cohen may not be what everyone hopes he is? It shouldn't take a decade to rebuild at MSU in baseball. At UK, it's understandable because UK literally doesn't give a damn about sports not called basketball. Not so at MSU, particularly in OUR SPORT, baseball.

Seriously, why can we not have a rational discussion about this? It pisses me off how divided our fan base is because of Polk's temper tantrum. If it were up to me, we'd strip his name from everything at MSU and completely refuse to acknowledge him until after he passes. I'll never, ever forgive or respect him for how he handled his exit.

Our fans are not patient when it comes to baseball. Now with Polk they were (even for Polk II) because for a large amount of the fanbase he is almost a deity. However, we've only had 2 coaches other than Polk in the past 40 years and both have gotten a lot of heat. Yes, McMahon took the Florida job for "family reasons" but he absolutely had a lot of criticism from MSU fans and folks breathing down his neck because we hadn't gotten back to the CWS since '98 even though he took us to 2 SRs after 98 and probably had more to do with our 97 and 98 CWS trips than Polk did. Had he been treated better I believe he would have chosen to stay. And Cohen has been dogged by the Polk groupies from Day 1 and Polk himself did everything in his power to keep Cohen from getting the support among the fanbase and former players that he needed to get things going quickly. Cohen has had to row against the current for most of his time here to build up the program. Now this past year was beyond bad and Cohen deserves significant criticism which he has gotten but in general there is nothing patient about our fanbase when it comes to baseball.

[tcdog70]

Yet when he shows fire and passion in the press and basically says "this is f'n ridiculous and we are going to go out and get better players that can throw strikes" -- he is crucified for that too. But you probably hadn't read moneyball and decided you were a baseball expert yet when all of that happened.

He literally can not win with our fanbase. Nothing he does is the right thing. He shows fire and rips guys -- half our fanbase flips out about it. He withholds it publicly(when everyone need only look at the size of the recruiting class to know it is happening privately) -- half our fanbase flips out about it.


I'm right with you on this. Although JC did some thing that seemed stupid to Me, I am still confident He will get Us back on track. Whether he comes out all fired up or blase' won't make any difference how His team plays next year. We have to just trust that we will be a much better team next year. I trust in the Intense Bastard--

[blacklistedbully]

How much of Cohen's problems this year can be attributed to his having built a team for pre-2014 baseball, in a home-park that plays like TD Ameritrade, etc? Given our ballpark, TD Ameritrade, and an expectation to get to and exceed at the CWS, can we not say Cohen recruited and coached to succeed through 2013, then got thrown a curve in 2014 with the ball-change?

Can we not say that he knew he had a small-ball team stuck in a new game, and that he now needs time to transition? Sure, other teams have done better in the transition, but perhaps it's because those teams weren't built specifically enough to make it to the CWS finals in 2013. Perhaps, only by selling out to small-ball were we finally able to get to the CWS CG, and now that's biting-us-in-the-ass.

I'm sure Cohen has made his fair-share of mistakes this past year, but I do wonder if they were at least influenced by self-awareness of what this year's team was built for, so knowing he was trying to fit a square-peg-in-a-round-hole.