Evaluating John Cohen - from forwhomthecowbelltolls

[MadDawg]

http://www.forwhomthecowbelltolls.com/2015/5/28/8673035/msu-baseball-and-john-cohen-an-evaluation-mississppi-state-bulldogs

[MSUDawg99]

Can't say enough good about this article. Agree 1000%. Excellent job, WMD!

[DanDority]

I'm so pissed about our baseball season I can't even read the article.

[engie]

I understand it is no longer the 1980s. Schools are pouring more and more money into baseball, particularly within the SEC. We will never dominate the way we once did, and there will even be sub-.500 seasons. But that should NEVER be a regular occurrence. I'm talking one sub-.500 season every 10 years.

"We'll never be as elite as we once were -- yet I do expect us to be 400% more consistently better than LSU in the past decade." Talk about a wildly inconsistent viewpoint in a single sentence.

[Bucky Dog]

Yeah I think this is exactly what the majority of fans are thinking now. There is a much smaller portion that are still firmly behind Cohen. He has a year to clean it up and put us in a good post season position or he gone.

[Lloyd Christmas]

http://www.forwhomthecowbelltolls.com/2015/5/28/8673035/msu-baseball-and-john-cohen-an-evaluation-mississppi-state-bulldogs

For appearances I understand why he is being given another year..but he really shouldn't.

[Coach34]

Yeah I think this is exactly what the majority of fans are thinking now. There is a much smaller portion that are still firmly behind Cohen. He has a year to clean it up and put us in a good post season position or he gone.

Mad long as he makes postseason period he will keep his job

[War Machine Dawg]

http://www.forwhomthecowbelltolls.com/2015/5/28/8673035/msu-baseball-and-john-cohen-an-evaluation-mississppi-state-bulldogs

Beat me to my own shameless plug. Thanks for the link, sir.


Can't say enough good about this article. Agree 1000%. Excellent job, WMD!

Thank you. Figured it was time to at least put Cohen's record out there for all to see. As I said in the article, people a lot smarter and more important than me are going to have to make some decisions. But it is at least time to discuss whether or not Cohen should be our coach moving forward. Only having 3 seasons with an SEC record above .500 is not acceptable.

[confucius say]

Beat me to my own shameless plug. Thanks for the link, sir.


Thank you. Figured it was time to at least put Cohen's record out there for all to see. As I said in the article, people a lot smarter and more important than me are going to have to make some decisions. But it is at least time to discuss whether or not Cohen should be our coach moving forward. Only having 3 seasons with an SEC record above .500 is not acceptable.

First two years don't count. Everybody knows that. Last five count. If he continues over a five year period to average what he did from 2011-2015 (a super in 11, a sec tourney and regional in 12, a natty appearance in 13, a regional in 14, and miss a regional in 15) he will be here for a long time. If he can't continue that level over a five year period, he will not.

[War Machine Dawg]

First two years don't count. Everybody knows that. Last five count. If he continues over a five year period to average what he did from 2011-2015 (a super in 11, a sec tourney and regional in 12, a natty appearance in 13, a regional in 14, and miss a regional in 15) he will be here for a long time. If he can't continue that level over a five year period, he will not.

http://i.imgur.com/i0KwkqR.gif
http://i.imgur.com/2YJ5inX.gif

[Smitty]

Mad long as he makes postseason period he will keep his job

That's retarded.

[confucius say]

http://i.imgur.com/i0KwkqR.gif
http://i.imgur.com/2YJ5inX.gif

They count in they are part of his record, yes. But they are not held against him when evaluating his performance. Better?

No fan and no one in our administration expected Cohen to win in 2009-2010. Just like nobody expected ray to win in his first two years. Ray's first two years are not why he was fired. If ray does in his third year what Cohen did in his third year, ray would still be here.

And to refer to 2011 as a terrible season is unfair. We went to a super and were 7 outs away from Omaha. While the regular season was average (still not terrible), the postseason more than made up for it.

Now, I agree with the strength and conditioning problems and the quirky lineup crap. I also agree we should host more, but as long as he keeps having postseason success at the rate he has from 2011-2015, he ain't going nowhere.

[BulldogBear]

That's retarded.

What he means is this: If we get to postseason, Cohen will still be our coach in 2017.

Whether or not he SHOULD be if we're just seeing the SOS is an entirely different question. But he will be. I can't see SS pulling the trigger if we make the postseason, even if same show different year and we butt shuffle our way into a 3 seed in some far flung galaxy.

[CadaverDawg]

Just to add some interesting facts to the discussion, I did a little research and looked back over the last 7 years.

During that period, there have been zero teams finish .500 or better in conference all 7 years, but 4 have done it 6 of the last 7. Those 4....
1. Vandy
2. Florida
3. South Carolina
4. Arkansas

2 teams have finished at or above .500 5 of the last 7 years...
1. LSU
2. Ole Miss

We have finished above .500 3 times in the last 7 years, which ties us with Alabama, and puts us one year above Auburn and Georgia who each have 2 .500+ years in the last 7.

Mizzou and A&M each had their first .500+ season in the SEC, and that only puts them 2 years behind us in the last 7, and they weren't even members for a majority of that time frame.

Pretty sad to look at and see us in the company of perennial SEC doormats like Bama, Auburn, and Georgia....2 of which took series from us at Dudy Noble this year.

[War Machine Dawg]

What he means is this: If we get to postseason, Cohen will still be our coach in 2017.

Whether or not he SHOULD be if we're just seeing the SOS is an entirely different question. But he will be. I can't see SS pulling the trigger if we make the postseason, even if same show different year and we butt shuffle our way into a 3 seed in some far flung galaxy.

Completely agree. Strick doesn't have the brass balls necessary to make the tough call when it comes to coaches. Firing Ray for Howland was the easiest decision of all time. But "postseason" will be good enough for him, even if nothing substantive changes and we're continuing to be a #3 at Central Arkansas, Mercer, or Directional Louisiana. It pisses me off, but I've already made peace with the knowledge that's how it will play out.

[War Machine Dawg]

Just to add some interesting facts to the discussion, I did a little research and looked back over the last 7 years.

During that period, there have been zero teams finish .500 or better in conference all 7 years, but 4 have done it 6 of the last 7. Those 4....
1. Vandy
2. Florida
3. South Carolina
4. Arkansas

2 teams have finished at or above .500 5 of the last 7 years...
1. LSU
2. Ole Miss

We have finished above .500 3 times in the last 7 years, which ties us with Alabama, and puts us one year above Auburn and Georgia who each have 2 .500+ years in the last 7.

Mizzou and A&M each had their first .500+ season in the SEC, and that only puts them 2 years behind us in the last 7, and they weren't even members for a majority of that time frame.

Pretty sad to look at and see us in the company of perennial SEC doormats like Bama, Auburn, and Georgia....2 of which took series from us at Dudy Noble this year.

I think this one word should sum that up nicely.....
http://i.imgur.com/oHfd32H.gif

[Coach34]

Pretty sad to look at and see us in the company of perennial SEC doormats like Bama, Auburn, and Georgia....2 of which took series from us at Dudy Noble this year.

Yet those 2 schools in bold still have more NCAA championship appearances than we do- and Georgia has even won a NC

[Coach34]

Completely agree. Strick doesn't have the brass balls necessary to make the tough call when it comes to coaches. Firing Ray for Howland was the easiest decision of all time. But "postseason" will be good enough for him, even if nothing substantive changes and we're continuing to be a #3 at Central Arkansas, Mercer, or Directional Louisiana. It pisses me off, but I've already made peace with the knowledge that's how it will play out.

We should never fire a baseball coach that makes the NCAA Tourney

[Tbonewannabe]

We should never fire a baseball coach that makes the NCAA Tourney

You wanted to fire Stans for never making the Sweet 16. If we never made it past a Regional you would be ok with the coach? Cohen has proven he can have success in postseason but if we replaced him with someone who didn't, would you not call for a change?

[Smitty]

We should never fire a baseball coach that makes the NCAA Tourney

3 seed in 2016 and 2017 is a-ok to you? You cannot make blanket statements like that

[CadaverDawg]

Yet those 2 schools in bold still have more NCAA championship appearances than we do- and Georgia has even won a NC

And Fresno State has as many Titles as Vandy and one more than us. You're trying too hard to make our program seem worse than it is. Nobody is saying we should be setting the world on fire....but to act like we shouldn't be well above the company of Auburn in baseball is just simply trying too hard.

I'm the first to agree that some people have a skewed view of how good our program is......however, I'm also not going to sit here and agree with your attempts to run our program into the ground in an attempt to make Cohen's recent performance look more acceptable than it is or should be. It's ok to call a spade a spade. We aren't Vandy or LSU, but we damn sure aren't Auburn or Georgia either. Anybody being realistic knows We are a baseball program on the level with Arkansas and slightly above Ole Miss, and should be winning and finishing at that level in the standings most years. Personally I feel we should be able to jump up every few years to compete with LSU, Vandy, Florida, and USC for SEC titles. Maybe not a yearly mainstay with those 4, but every few years we should compete for the SEC and we should always compete with those 4 in weekend series and be a threat to beat them.

The fact that we are being beaten at home by Alabama, Auburn, and being swept by Tennessee, is not only below standards, it's embarrassing. And let's be honest, if our program is NOT where I'm saying it is, and IS where YOU are saying it is...then we have no damn business building the stadium we're talking about building. You don't pump that kind of money into a program that you have that small of expectations of. If we're accepting the fact that we won't be competing for Championships at least every few years in this league, then spend that money on football because we've proven that we arent scared to set expectations and go after them in that sport despite WAY less advantages.

[Coach34]

You wanted to fire Stans for never making the Sweet 16.

Cohen has already proven he can succeed in the postseason. Not to mention Stands only made the NCAA Tourney 2 of his last 7 tries. Cohen is 4/5.

Make the Tourney in 2016 or get gone. If he goes on a stretch of not making Supers or Omaha but just getting- then we can look at running him out.

[Coach34]

And Fresno State has as many Titles as Vandy and one more than us. You're trying too hard to make our program seem worse than it is. Nobody is saying we should be setting the world on fire....but to act like we shouldn't be well above the company of Auburn in baseball is just simply trying too hard.

I'm the first to agree that some people have a skewed view of how good our program is......however, I'm also not going to sit here and agree with your attempts to run our program into the ground in an attempt to make Cohen's recent performance look more acceptable than it is or should be. It's ok to call a spade a spade. We aren't Vandy or LSU, but we damn sure aren't Auburn or Georgia either. Anybody being realistic knows We are a baseball program on the level with Arkansas and slightly above Ole Miss, and should be winning and finishing at that level in the standings most years. Personally I feel we should be able to jump up every few years to compete with LSU, Vandy, Florida, and USC for SEC titles. Maybe not a yearly mainstay with those 4, but every few years we should compete for the SEC and we should always compete with those 4 in weekend series and be a threat to beat them.

The fact that we are being beaten at home by Alabama, Auburn, and being swept by Tennessee, is not only below standards, it's embarrassing. And let's be honest, if our program is NOT where I'm saying it is, and IS where YOU are saying it is...then we have no damn business building the stadium we're talking about building. You don't pump that kind of money into a program that you have that small of expectations of. If we're accepting the fact that we won't be competing for Championships at least every few years in this league, then spend that money on football because they've proven that they are scared to set expectations and go after them in that sport despite WAY less advantages.

This is hilarious- when did stating facts become "running our program down"? Too many State fans think because we won big before 1995 and have alot of fans at games we are a top program. Thats bullshit- winning and getting to Omaha makes you a top program. Our resume the last 15-16 years is not very good- even with the 2 Omaha trips (2 Omaha trips in 16 yearssssssss). Bill Parcells say- "you are what your record says it is".

Now then- we do have "potential" to be a Big Boy again. We just simply arent right now

[CadaverDawg]

We should never fire a baseball coach that makes the NCAA Tourney

You've lost it. This ain't MSU football in the 90's.

[Coach34]

3 seed in 2016 and 2017 is a-ok to you? You cannot make blanket statements like that

Is it ok with me? No
Is it enough to keep his job? Yes

[CadaverDawg]

This is hilarious- when did stating facts become "running our program down"? Too many State fans think because we won big before 1995 and have alot of fans at games we are a top program. Thats bullshit- winning and getting to Omaha makes you a top program. Our resume the last 15-16 years is not very good- even with the 2 Omaha trips. Bill Parcells say- "you are what your record says it is".

Now then- we do have "potential" to be a Big Boy again. We just simply arent right now

Whoa....bbbbbut I thought in order to become a "big boy" in basketball we needed more than just "tourney appearances". Now in baseball "tourney appearances" is enough to become a big boy again?? That's what Mr Sweet 16 told us when "Stands" was making tourneys yet you were calling for him to be fired. Now tourneys are enough in baseball, even though we have been to multiple Elite 8's and even a National Championship, thus proving we can win it all?

[CadaverDawg]

Cohen has already proven he can succeed in the postseason. Not to mention Stands only made the NCAA Tourney 2 of his last 7 tries. Cohen is 4/5.

Make the Tourney in 2016 or get gone. If he goes on a stretch of not making Supers or Omaha but just getting- then we can look at running him out.


Good try, but you wanted Stans gone when he was making tourneys, not just when he missed at the end.

[CadaverDawg]

Coach, stick to football. Our baseball program has proven that it can win at the highest levels....made it to a National Title. So to act like people should be satisfied with squeaking in a Regional every year is nonsense.

You talk about potential to be great, yet you want to reward subpar accomplishments and set low bars, as if that will ever achieve that potential.

[Smitty]

Cohen has already proven he can succeed in the postseason.

Which is far more luck oriented than the other major sports. Can he put us in position to succeed in the postseason? 78% of Omaha host.

[engie]

Which is far more luck oriented than the other major sports. Can he put us in position to succeed in the postseason? 78% of Omaha host.

"It's luck oriented.... But it's not..."

[Dawgtini]

Cohen has already proven he can succeed in the postseason. Not to mention Stands only made the NCAA Tourney 2 of his last 7 tries. Cohen is 4/5.

Make the Tourney in 2016 or get gone. If he goes on a stretch of not making Supers or Omaha but just getting- then we can look at running him out.

If our baseball team is a "lock" every year for the next 5 yrs to make a regional, I am all for whoever the coach is at the time. That is a big deal. And you can bet your buttocks that we won't be a lock every year if we are going in as a 3 seed and bouncing out 0fer every time.

[confucius say]

How many other sec teams have played for a natty and been to a super in the last five seasons? Three or four maybe. Our program is fine. Not elite, but not auburn, bama, Georgia either. Cohen just has to keep having that kind of success and all will be well. If he can't, bye.

[Liverpooldawg]

We are not a top level baseball program and never have been. We just cared about it when almost no one else did. That has changed.

[Coach34]

Whoa....bbbbbut I thought in order to become a "big boy" in basketball we needed more than just "tourney appearances". Now in baseball "tourney appearances" is enough to become a big boy again?? That's what Mr Sweet 16 told us when "Stands" was making tourneys yet you were calling for him to be fired. Now tourneys are enough in baseball, even though we have been to multiple Elite 8's and even a National Championship, thus proving we can win it all?

holy shit- are you sniffing glue today? We made the Supers 3 years ago and were National Runner-up 2 years ago. What dont you understand????

In basketball- we havent made it past the round of 32 since 1996.

[maroonmania]

What he means is this: If we get to postseason, Cohen will still be our coach in 2017.

Whether or not he SHOULD be if we're just seeing the SOS is an entirely different question. But he will be. I can't see SS pulling the trigger if we make the postseason, even if same show different year and we butt shuffle our way into a 3 seed in some far flung galaxy.

As he should because, as this year showed, making the post-season out of the SEC is getting tougher. Not only are more of the league teams better but based on this year's selections it looks like to pretty much guarantee you make a regional you will need to finish in the top half of the league, don't drop too many mid-week games and keep an RPI inside the Top 50. So it will be a major jump for us to go from being the worst or near the worst team in the league this year to finishing in the top half of the league next year. Used to think finishing 15-15 in the league was an automatic ticket to the regionals no matter what you do out of conference. Missouri showed this year that's not true anymore.

[Johnson85]

Whoa....bbbbbut I thought in order to become a "big boy" in basketball we needed more than just "tourney appearances". Now in baseball "tourney appearances" is enough to become a big boy again?? That's what Mr Sweet 16 told us when "Stands" was making tourneys yet you were calling for him to be fired. Now tourneys are enough in baseball, even though we have been to multiple Elite 8's and even a National Championship, thus proving we can win it all?

If Stansbury had taken us to the sweet sixteen one year, earned an at large bid and coupled it with an SEC Tourney championship the next before losing in the first two rounds, then made it to the national championship game the next year, then made the tournament and lost in the first two rounds, then had a team implode, and then spent two years just squeaking into the NCAA before flaming out int he first two rounds, even Coach34 would have supported him. The four year stretch Cohen had is going to continue to factor in to his job security for the next three years if it's a close call. That's just the way it is. Even if Stricklan decided that he's not the guy, he still wouldn't fire him after a seven year stretch that includes one shitastic season and six regionals, along with a super regional appearance and a national title game appearance. He'd have to give him another year and hope that he does something to make his decision easy one way or the other.

[Coach34]

If Stansbury had taken us to the sweet sixteen one year, earned an at large bid and coupled it with an SEC Tourney championship the next before losing in the first two rounds, then made it to the national championship game the next year, then made the tournament and lost in the first two rounds, then had a team implode, and then spent two years just squeaking into the NCAA before flaming out int he first two rounds, even Coach34 would have supported him. The four year stretch Cohen had is going to continue to factor in to his job security for the next three years if it's a close call. That's just the way it is. Even if Stricklan decided that he's not the guy, he still wouldn't fire him after a seven year stretch that includes one shitastic season and six regionals, along with a super regional appearance and a national title game appearance. He'd have to give him another year and hope that he does something to make his decision easy one way or the other.

You explained this- whereas I assume people have enough sense to know this. Thank you

[confucius say]

holy shit- are you sniffing glue today? We made the Supers 3 years ago and were National Runner-up 2 years ago. What dont you understand????

In basketball- we havent made it past the round of 32 since 1996.

Not to mention, no one was calling for Stans to be fired when he was "making tourneys." Quite the opposite. I like Stans, but we had missed the tourney three years straight and 5 of 7. And our program was a laughing stock off the court. People comparing cohens last five years (or whole tenure) to Stans last years and rays three years are clueless. I guess croom comparisons are next.

[Dawgtini]

If Stansbury had taken us to the sweet sixteen one year, earned an at large bid and coupled it with an SEC Tourney championship the next before losing in the first two rounds, then made it to the national championship game the next year, then made the tournament and lost in the first two rounds, then had a team implode, and then spent two years just squeaking into the NCAA before flaming out int he first two rounds, even Coach34 would have supported him. The four year stretch Cohen had is going to continue to factor in to his job security for the next three years if it's a close call. That's just the way it is. Even if Stricklan decided that he's not the guy, he still wouldn't fire him after a seven year stretch that includes one shitastic season and six regionals, along with a super regional appearance and a national title game appearance. He'd have to give him another year and hope that he does something to make his decision easy one way or the other.
+1

[CadaverDawg]

Not to mention, no one was calling for Stans to be fired when he was "making tourneys." Quite the opposite. I like Stans, but we had missed the tourney three years straight and 5 of 7. And our program was a laughing stock off the court. People comparing cohens last five years (or whole tenure) to Stans last years and rays three years are clueless. I guess croom comparisons are next.

That's where yall are wrong and missing the point. Coach WAS calling for Stans head while he was making tourneys, because he wasn't making Sweet 16's. Yall are misinterpreting my sarcasm about what coach used to say about Stans. Don't let him fool you. Tourneys weren't good enough for Stans at one time.

[confucius say]

That's where yall are wrong and missing the point. Coach WAS calling for Stans head while he was making tourneys, because he wasn't making Sweet 16's. Yall are misinterpreting my sarcasm about what coach used to say about Stans. Don't let him fool you. Tourneys weren't good enough for Stans at one time.

Ok, got ya. Well if he was calling for him to be fired prior to 2006, then I would disagree with that. I would be frustrated not making a sweet 16, but wouldn't want him gone after making four straight tourneys.

[Coach34]

That's where yall are wrong and missing the point. Coach WAS calling for Stans head while he was making tourneys, because he wasn't making Sweet 16's. Yall are misinterpreting my sarcasm about what coach used to say about Stans. Don't let him fool you. Tourneys weren't good enough for Stans at one time.

I never called for him to be fired until 2009-2010. I did however say that we would never win big or advance in the Tourney with him as HC. And we didnt. So your post was still wrong

[MadDawg]

First two years don't count.

Yeah. Coach Ray thought that crap too.

[Smitty]

"It's luck oriented.... But it's not..."

Having a good regular season and setting yourself up to play weaker teams is not luck oriented over 50+ games.

Winning a couple games in Omaha has more of a luck factor than being good all year and hosting.

You understand this but keep putting on a show Engine.

[I seen it dawg]

This is hilarious- when did stating facts become "running our program down"? Too many State fans think because we won big before 1995 and have alot of fans at games we are a top program. Thats bullshit- winning and getting to Omaha makes you a top program. Our resume the last 15-16 years is not very good- even with the 2 Omaha trips (2 Omaha trips in 16 yearssssssss). Bill Parcells say- "you are what your record says it is".

Now then- we do have "potential" to be a Big Boy again. We just simply arent right now

So does that mean we can officially count Cohens first 2 years......

[confucius say]

Having a good regular season and setting yourself up to play weaker teams is not luck oriented over 50+ games.

Winning a couple games in Omaha has more of a luck factor than being good all year and hosting.

You understand this but keep putting on a show Engine.

I think I understand your point broadly, but luck had nothing to do with our run in 2013. We were an elite team, played the toughest schedule in the league, hosted a regional, whipped Virginia, and ran through our cws bracket. We didn't just win a couple games in Omaha.

[confucius say]

Yeah. Coach Ray thought that crap too.
Ray's first two seasons had little to no impact on his firing. Surely you know that. The powers that be did not expect him to win those years. If he wins in his third year he is still here.

[confucius say]

So does that mean we can officially count Cohens first 2 years......

Yes, you can count them in that they happened and we sucked 2009-2010. We were what our record says we were - horrible. However, you can't hold that against Cohen or consider it as a flaw when evaluating his tenure here. Not a difficult concept.

[I seen it dawg]

The whole point is the regression of our program as far as performance and the shit we do on the field with lineups, coaching decisions, etc. I want him gone for the moronic shit he does. Which for some reason just started in the last 2 years. Why who the hell knows. But it's ****ong stupid.

Now I know he will be back so he's got this year to get me back on board. If he starts doing smart baseball things instead of head scratchers every 3 pitches then I'm fine with him staying. If it's same shit different year I will be more of an asshole on the subject of wanting him gone. Everybody is making this too hard.

[I seen it dawg]

Yes, you can count them in that they happened and we sucked 2009-2010. We were what our record says we were - horrible. However, you can't hold that against Cohen or consider it as a flaw when evaluating his tenure here. Not a difficult concept.

I've said my peace on this already weeks ago. I vehemently disagree. He coached the team. It's on him. There are plenty of coaches that turn it around in one year. We weren't coming off a 5 year death penalty with only walk ons.

[MadDawg]

Ray's first two seasons had little to no impact on his firing. Surely you know that. The powers that be did not expect him to win those years. If he wins in his third year he is still here.

This idea that coaches come in with multiple years of having to show zero improvement needs to put to death.

[engie]

There are plenty of coaches that turn it around in one year. We weren't coming off a 5 year death penalty with only walk ons.

You've got to be kidding.

[engie]

This idea that coaches come in with multiple years of having to show zero improvement needs to put to death.

So he should have been fired in 2010 with half of one true recruiting class on campus in your opinion?

[Smitty]

I think I understand your point broadly, but luck had nothing to do with our run in 2013. We were an elite team, played the toughest schedule in the league, hosted a regional, whipped Virginia, and ran through our cws bracket. We didn't just win a couple games in Omaha.

Luck does not imply that you aren't good or worthy. It's just a statistical fact that it plays a larger role in baseball than other sports.

Just as a matter of fact let's look at the best and worst winning percentages of the major sports in their previous full season.

NBA
Best - Warriors 82%
Worst- T'Wolves 20%

NFL
Best- 5 teams at 12-4 (75%) and usually it's higher.
Worst- Bucs and Titans at 2-14 (13%)

MLB
Best- Angels 60%
Worst- D'Backs 40%

So as you can see in baseball the best doesn't win as much and the worst doesn't lose as much giving the luck factor a much higher rate in the sport. ESPECIALLY a very short sample. That's why you can't just pile on 2013 for Cohen as you could if Mullen went to a NC because his role in getting there is not what a football or basketball coach's role would be. Winning a couple games does NOT change where the overall program is as evidenced by a much larger sample size of his career.

One hosting spot in a sport where hosting gives you a supreme edge in attaining success or the chance of it. Recently last place in the conference. A few games, albeit great ones, does not negate this overall trend or state of the program. Again, it's not a "would you rather host or win in Omaha" debate like some of the smaller minds try to make it out to be. We would have a better chance of sustaining success under someone else that would HOST more and as a byproduct have more of a chance at winning it all... By having a better shot at getting to Omaha.... By hosting as hopefully a national seed.

Over half of Omaha has been national seeds... 78% have been host teams.

[MadDawg]

So he should have been fired in 2010 with half of one true recruiting class on campus in your opinion?

I wouldn't go quite that far, but the years of total ineptitude shouldn't be automatically discounted either.

[confucius say]

The whole point is the regression of our program as far as performance and the shit we do on the field with lineups, coaching decisions, etc. I want him gone for the moronic shit he does. Which for some reason just started in the last 2 years. Why who the hell knows. But it's ****ong stupid.

Now I know he will be back so he's got this year to get me back on board. If he starts doing smart baseball things instead of head scratchers every 3 pitches then I'm fine with him staying. If it's same shit different year I will be more of an asshole on the subject of wanting him gone. Everybody is making this too hard.

I agree with the stupid lineup stuff, the lack of strength and conditioning, and some of the coaching decisions. If the programs continues in the direction it went this year, no doubt a change is needed. That is not being debated. What is being debated is cohens tenure to this point. Some think it is not acceptable and are making ray and Stans comparisons. That is crazy.

[confucius say]

I've said my peace on this already weeks ago. I vehemently disagree. He coached the team. It's on him. There are plenty of coaches that turn it around in one year. We weren't coming off a 5 year death penalty with only walk ons.

So your position is Cohen is responsible for us sucking in 2009-2010? That is beyond reason. If you don't like the guy, fine. But this destroys credibility.

[confucius say]

I wouldn't go quite that far, but the years of total ineptitude shouldn't be automatically discounted either.

Ok, I grant you on the total ineptitude part. But Cohen gets a pass on 2009-2010.

[confucius say]

Luck does not imply that you aren't good or worthy. It's just a statistical fact that it plays a larger role in baseball than other sports.

Just as a matter of fact let's look at the best and worst winning percentages of the major sports in their previous full season.

NBA
Best - Warriors 82%
Worst- T'Wolves 20%

NFL
Best- 5 teams at 12-4 (75%) and usually it's higher.
Worst- Bucs and Titans at 2-14 (13%)

MLB
Best- Angels 60%
Worst- D'Backs 40%

So as you can see in baseball the best doesn't win as much and the worst doesn't lose as much giving the luck factor a much higher rate in the sport. ESPECIALLY a very short sample. That's why you can't just pile on 2013 for Cohen as you could if Mullen went to a NC because his role in getting there is not what a football or basketball coach's role would be. Winning a couple games does NOT change where the overall program is as evidenced by a much larger sample size of his career.

One hosting spot in a sport where hosting gives you a supreme edge in attaining success or the chance of it. Recently last place in the conference. A few games, albeit great ones, does not negate this overall trend or state of the program. Again, it's not a "would you rather host or win in Omaha" debate like some of the smaller minds try to make it out to be. We would have a better chance of sustaining success under someone else that would HOST more and as a byproduct have more of a chance at winning it all... By having a better shot at getting to Omaha.... By hosting as hopefully a national seed.

Over half of Omaha has been national seeds... 78% have been host teams.

Luck implies that you achieved what you did due to smn other than merit. Luck had nothing to do with our achievements in 2013.

And I agree with you that being a national seed and/or a host increases your Omaha chances. But if Cohen can continue to defy the odds and take us to a natty appearance, a super, and two regionals over a five year period (and a sec tourney title in one of the regional years to boot), I'm fine with that. If he can't, and we don't start hosting more, then bye.

[Coach34]

So does that mean we can officially count Cohens first 2 years......

since he didnt recruit any of those guys- count anything you want. But when playing with what he was dealt- a coach that never left campus to recruit his last 2 years- hard to fault Cohen. Especially after he gets his recruits in- we go to 4 straight NCAA's with a Super and a NC appearance

[Coach34]

2013 we had the 2nd most wins in school history- there was nothing "lucky" about that season

Will- nobody really challenges the fact that being a national seed helps your cause- but being a national seed is never going to be a prerequisite for keeping your job. NEVER

[Todd4State]

It all comes down to your pitching. The teams that win National Championships have two elite starting pitchers- like Stratton and an elite closer. There's not a lot of "luck" involved when you can absolutely shut the other team down.

Look at the 85 team- yeah, we had Clark and Palmeiro- but we also had Brantley, Morgan, and Thigpen. And things started to fall apart after Morgan went down.

Our team in 2013 had Graveman- who just happens to be in MLB right now after spending a year in the minors and even though we didn't have another elite starter, we had Girodo who was basically like an elite starter to go along with Holder. And then we lost to a UCLA team that couldn't hit because we couldn't hit their two elite starters and closer.

When LSU was winning NC's- they had elite starters even though everyone remembers gorilla ball. No one remembers their starters because Bertman burned most of the up- but they had several first round picks like Ben McDonald, Ed Yarnell, Kurt Ainsworth, Lloyd Peever, Curtis Leskanic, etc.

And now you look at Vandy last year- they had Beede, Carson Fulmer, etc. And they were a small ball team.

SO- if we want to be what we all want to be, Cohen is going to have to find at least two pitchers in every class that are elite starters. I say that because it's apparently going to take Butch three years to get these players "right" so to speak. You look back at our 2012 recruiting class- the guys that were juniors last year- we had two pitchers in that class, John Marc Shelly and Wes Stokes who was a walk-on. But finding two elite pitchers should be akin to finding a QB in every class for Dan. What happened with our 2012 class is why we had to start a JUCO and a walk-on as our one and two- and then people are wondering "what happened"?

We'll know how good we're going to be next year by the end of July once the Cape Cod season is over and we see how our five pitchers do there. If they blow up like Stratton and Lindgren did, we'll be fine- if not pretty good even. It's wait and see at this point. At any rate it's pretty reasonable to expect us to be better next year.

And to me, this year was more on Butch than anybody- even though I'm sure the peanut gallery will disagree with me. First of all, the fact that our guys don't develop until year three is more than a coincidence to me. Secondly, I think we would have been OK had he just started Sexton, Hudson, and Tatum and had Laster, Fitts, and Houston in the pen. That would have allowed us to use Laster more- which would have given us a better chance to win. We severely underused Hudson and I think Tatum would have been better had he not been shuttling between the pen and rotation. And I don't know what our record with Ross pitching was, but I think we only won like one SEC game that he pitched in- and if I remember correctly Ross blew the lead in that game. Whatever our record was when he pitched, it was awful. But yet, Butch kept going with him time and time again.

[Todd4State]

2013 we had the 2nd most wins in school history- there was nothing "lucky" about that season

Will- nobody really challenges the fact that being a national seed helps your cause- but being a national seed is never going to be a prerequisite for keeping your job. NEVER

Luck is a word used by people that don't understand and never have played baseball.

[Smitty]

Luck is a word used by people that don't understand and never have played baseball.


Luck is a word used by people that don't understand and never have played baseball.

Dear lord there are no logical neurons firing up there...

The worst team in baseball has a better shot at beating the best team than the worst teams in other sports beating the best team.... It's that simple. You're an idiot if you do not understand the luck factor of a small sample in baseball.

Are you just dismissing the winning percentage argument from earlier??

Football teams routinely go undefeated in college football.
Kentucky nearly went undefeated in college hoops
The lowest number of losses in college ball this year is 8 from a shitty league in Illinois. Even the good teams have 12-15 losses.

Damn it's hard to discuss things with you unthinking people sometimes. "There's no luck factor in baseball"...give me a damn break. No statistical curiosity whatsoever. Luddite unthinking drones.

[Todd4State]

Dear lord there are no logical neurons firing up there...

The worst team in baseball has a better shot at beating the best team than the worst teams in other sports beating the best team.... It's that simple. You're an idiot if you do not understand the luck factor of a small sample in baseball.

Are you just dismissing the winning percentage argument from earlier??

Football teams routinely go undefeated in college football.
Kentucky nearly went undefeated in college hoops
The lowest number of losses in college ball this year is 8 from a shitty league in Illinois. Even the good teams have 12-15 losses.

Damn it's hard to discuss things with you unthinking people sometimes. "There's no luck factor in baseball"...give me a damn break. No statistical curiosity whatsoever. Luddite unthinking drones.

It's pretty rich that you are calling me an idiot after I have spend my entire life watching professionals behind the scenes and seeing how hard they work at what they do. "Luck" is a word by sabermetrics people use to explain what they simply do not know that goes on behind the scenes. Sabermetrics sees a guy that is "unlucky" not getting the breaks and a guy that is "lucky" getting breaks. What you don't see or understand is a guy working on his swing, looking at video for hours trying to figure out how he is being pitched and then adjusting- which leads to "lucky" breaks in the eyes of sabermetrics.

Calling baseball players "lucky" is pretty much a slap in their face and the work that they put in. It doesn't make me a drone- it makes you uneducated. And that means you calling me unthinking is like a caveman taunting scientist.

You can't compare football and basketball to baseball- baseball has way more games and in baseball you do not pitch your ace every game for obvious reasons. I can't believe you even brought that up.

And yeah- I did dismiss your winning percentage argument because it's obviously something you pulled out of your ass to try to make Cohen look bad. So excuse me for not taking it very seriously. Why don't you actually do something productive for once and run the stats on the percentage of teams that won in Omaha with two elite starting pitchers an elite closer- you know something relevant?

At any rate, no one agrees with you that Cohen should be fired if he just makes a regional next year. You brought up "what if he's a three seed"?- Yeah- well, what if we're a two seed that got screwed over because the committee wanted more Big 10 teams in? You can't base a coaches job on something that has to do with politics. That's why you are wrong.

The thing is- I actually know how to apply the statistics. And you don't know what the **** you are talking about.

[Smitty]

"Guy hits 2 missiles right at an infielder and gets robbed of a HR. Goes 0-3. He played badly because he should have worked harder to hit them somewhere 3 feet to the left or right"

- Todd

[Smitty]

You honestly have no inclination at the statistical luck factor? You honestly think it's a slap in the face? There's no such thing as regression? There's no such thing as larger sample sizes being more meaningful than smaller ones?

I just don't see how someone's brain cannot grasp this.

The best teams in baseball don't win as much as the best in football or basketball. The worst teams don't lose as much. But according to you there's nothing to gain from that.

[confucius say]

Dear lord there are no logical neurons firing up there...

The worst team in baseball has a better shot at beating the best team than the worst teams in other sports beating the best team.... It's that simple. You're an idiot if you do not understand the luck factor of a small sample in baseball.

Are you just dismissing the winning percentage argument from earlier??

Football teams routinely go undefeated in college football.
Kentucky nearly went undefeated in college hoops
The lowest number of losses in college ball this year is 8 from a shitty league in Illinois. Even the good teams have 12-15 losses.

Damn it's hard to discuss things with you unthinking people sometimes. "There's no luck factor in baseball"...give me a damn break. No statistical curiosity whatsoever. Luddite unthinking drones.

That has nothing to do with luck. It has to do with 90% of baseball being dependent upon one person, the pitcher.

[Coach34]

That has nothing to do with luck. It has to do with 90% of baseball being dependent upon one person, the pitcher.

Thank you.

Bottom line mf'ers:

1. Cohen drives us all nuts
2. That being said- he has won an SEC title at Kentucky- which is damn near impossible- and led us to the best season in school history.
3. Is he perfect? **** no

He needs to get his ass back in the NCAA Tourney- or he needs to go coach somewhere else. We arent rebuilding anymore- so one bad season can be excused- 2 in a row cant. Get better or get gone

[Smitty]

That has nothing to do with luck. It has to do with 90% of baseball being dependent upon one person, the pitcher.

Please go into more detail on this nonsensical statement.

[confucius say]

Please go into more detail on this nonsensical statement.

How do you not get that??

The reason subpar teams are more likely to beat above par teams in baseball as compared to other sports is bc in baseball one player, the pitcher, matters more than any other one player in team sports. Take our season this year. Put Stratton on our team and keep everything else the same - we still would suck (maybe be .500 overall instead of 6 games under) but on the day we run Stratton out there we would be odds on favorite to win. It's why betting lines in baseball completely change one day to the next with the same two teams playing only bc the starting pitchers change.

[I seen it dawg]

You've got to be kidding.

What's so wrong about my statement?

[Smitty]

How do you not get that??

The reason subpar teams are more likely to beat above par teams in baseball as compared to other sports is bc in baseball one player, the pitcher, matters more than any other one player in team sports. Take our season this year. Put Stratton on our team and keep everything else the same - we still would suck (maybe be .500 overall instead of 6 games under) but on the day we run Stratton out there we would be odds on favorite to win. It's why betting lines in baseball completely change one day to the next with the same two teams playing only bc the starting pitchers change.

He goes once every 5 days in the bigs. You still only have a 60%-40% winning percentage disparity between the BEST and WORST teams.

[I seen it dawg]

So your position is Cohen is responsible for us sucking in 2009-2010? That is beyond reason. If you don't like the guy, fine. But this destroys credibility.

First entering into any discussion "if you don't like the guy" as a basis for argument is straight ****ing stupid. I don't give a shit if I like him or not, can he or can he not do the job in the sport of baseball. That's the only thing that matters. So there's that.

Second I never said he was THE reason. But this whole idea of you can't count the first 2 years is beyond ludicrous. He did great getting out of that first 2 years. Now, (some) 2 years ago and last year the whole season, it's inexplicable the shit that is happening and I don't think he will or can change. If I'm wrong great and we may have a winner that hit a learning patch. Measure him in his totality and more importantly what have you done for me lately. He is trending swiftly down.

A bunch of our fans are just pussies. It's ok to say he and we sucked his first 2 years if it happened. Doesn't make anyone a bad guy or that you hate the damn school. But just giving a free pass and not judging a coach on their totality is just straight *****fied. It's excuses. *****fied. I promise Cohen counts the first 2 years.

[I seen it dawg]

I agree with the stupid lineup stuff, the lack of strength and conditioning, and some of the coaching decisions. If the programs continues in the direction it went this year, no doubt a change is needed. That is not being debated. What is being debated is cohens tenure to this point. Some think it is not acceptable and are making ray and Stans comparisons. That is crazy.

Well...that's the head coach. And it's what I'm yelling about. Baseball coaches start down a path and typically don't change. The path he is heading down right now is a path of baseball stupidity of summer league daddy proportions. I honestly hope he has a wreck and chooses a different path yesterday. I don't think he will. Hope I'm wrong.

[I seen it dawg]

since he didnt recruit any of those guys- count anything you want. But when playing with what he was dealt- a coach that never left campus to recruit his last 2 years- hard to fault Cohen. Especially after he gets his recruits in- we go to 4 straight NCAA's with a Super and a NC appearance

09 had 4 each hitters and pitchers make it to at least the minors. In '10 had 5 hitters and 7 pitchers make it at least to minors. He didn't have 35 walk ons. The whole crowd of not including his first 2 years is just wrong.

[I seen it dawg]

He goes once every 5 days in the bigs. You still only have a 60%-40% winning percentage disparity between the BEST and WORST teams.

This ain't the bigs chief.

[MsStateBaseball]

For whatever reason, could very well be the amount of scholarship, but July 2013 we actually went after the highly rated players (went after them on the big travel teams), and they were HS sophomores (class of 2015-about to be drafted) and got a lot of good ones, ranked 3rd by PG. As I said on my blog, where we failed in 2015 is we didn't get enough impact juniors in July 2013. Gridley and McCord were 2 of them. We lost Burdick and Vallot. We keep those two great HS hitters, 2015 is different. We need desperately each year to sign 10 Top 300 PG recruits and keep half or more.

That's what I think will happen this summer, we will keep more than half.

Cohen's fault comes in that he didn't go after and sign these big recruits his first few years. Did he try? I'm sure he did some, not to the extent he has now. Why he didn't is a damn good question.

[Smitty]

This ain't the bigs chief.

It's just a win percentage argument. It's still baseball no matter how many times you say this.

Winning percentages in college are more to the extremes than in the pros but BASEBALL STILL HAS MORE OF A LUCK FACTOR for the obvious reasons for the thinking among us!!!!!

College football- undefeateds nearly every year. More extreme than pros
Basketball- nearly an undefeated this year. Often teams with 3-4 losses. More extreme than pros.
Baseball- winning % still not as good or bad as extremes in other sports.

****ing hell the inability to formulate a coherent logical thought!!!!!!! You idiots cannot comprehend an academic argument. Great GREAT reflection on our university****

[I seen it dawg]

It's just a win percentage argument. It's still baseball no matter how many times you say this.

Winning percentages in college are more to the extremes than in the pros but BASEBALL STILL HAS MORE OF A LUCK FACTOR for the obvious reasons for the thinking among us!!!!!

College football- undefeateds nearly every year. More extreme than pros
Basketball- nearly an undefeated this year. Often teams with 3-4 losses. More extreme than pros.
Baseball- winning % still not as good or bad as extremes in other sports.

****ing hell the inability to formulate a coherent logical thought!!!!!!! You idiots cannot comprehend an academic argument. Great GREAT reflection on our university****

Stop yelling serf. Go sit on a breaking ball.

[Todd4State]

"Guy hits 2 missiles right at an infielder and gets robbed of a HR. Goes 0-3. He played badly because he should have worked harder to hit them somewhere 3 feet to the left or right"

- Todd

And yet again, your lack of knowledge shows through. Did it ever occur to you that maybe the reason he hit the two balls right at the infielder was because the infielder and team studied scouting reports on where the hitter hits the ball and thus put himself in position to succeed in getting the batter out? Did it ever occur to you that the outfielder robbed the home run again because of scouting report along with years of practice making plays against the wall to steal home runs?

That's not luck- that's preparation.

In baseball you either execute or you don't.

[confucius say]

First entering into any discussion "if you don't like the guy" as a basis for argument is straight ****ing stupid. I don't give a shit if I like him or not, can he or can he not do the job in the sport of baseball. That's the only thing that matters. So there's that.

Second I never said he was THE reason. But this whole idea of you can't count the first 2 years is beyond ludicrous. He did great getting out of that first 2 years. Now, (some) 2 years ago and last year the whole season, it's inexplicable the shit that is happening and I don't think he will or can change. If I'm wrong great and we may have a winner that hit a learning patch. Measure him in his totality and more importantly what have you done for me lately. He is trending swiftly down.

A bunch of our fans are just pussies. It's ok to say he and we sucked his first 2 years if it happened. Doesn't make anyone a bad guy or that you hate the damn school. But just giving a free pass and not judging a coach on their totality is just straight *****fied. It's excuses. *****fied. I promise Cohen counts the first 2 years.

Well I'm glad we agree that personal feelings towards a coach should not matter.

The reason it appears to matter to you is that you are the only person on this site who proclaims that Cohen deserves the blame for the 2009-2010 seasons. Others count the wins and losses for those two years in his win loss total, yes. And that's fine, albeit intellectually dishonest without adding the disclaimer that he took over a dumpster fire. But you are the only person who has said those two years are on him solely bc he was the coach.

Eta: and if I misunderstood your quote of "he coached the team. It's on him" then I apologize.

[Todd4State]

You honestly have no inclination at the statistical luck factor? You honestly think it's a slap in the face? There's no such thing as regression? There's no such thing as larger sample sizes being more meaningful than smaller ones?

I just don't see how someone's brain cannot grasp this.

The best teams in baseball don't win as much as the best in football or basketball. The worst teams don't lose as much. But according to you there's nothing to gain from that.

It's because you don't understand how the game is played at a BASIC level and you assume that it's all luck. IT ISN'T. SEC ball and up isn't like when you just show up for Little League and whatever happens happens and everyone eats Little Debbie cakes afterwards. There is a LOT of work behind the scenes that you don't even know about that goes into making a player great.

So, yes- when you are telling me that someone who is busting their ass to succeed in one of the most difficult sports to play is all a matter of luck and that the work they put in doesn't matter- hell yes that's a slap in their face.

Do I believe in regression? Yes. BUT the difference is I can explain WHY it happens whereas you only assume it's luck because that is the extent of your knowledge from people at places like fangraphs that also don't know how to play the game and assume it's luck because they don't understand it either. And you take it as gospel.

Do I believe in sample sizes? Yes- but I also believe in CONTEXT which you constantly fail at many times when attempting to interpret stats.

And no there isn't anything to gain by comparing baseball, football and basketball. Because it's apples and oranges. We don't play Dak every fourth game do we? We don't play three basketball games every weekend? IT'S IRRELEVANT.

[Todd4State]

This ain't the bigs chief.

Smitty leads the league in cross contamination with stats. The guy has tried to compare JUCO ball to SEC, college to MLB, etc.

[confucius say]

It's just a win percentage argument. It's still baseball no matter how many times you say this.

Winning percentages in college are more to the extremes than in the pros but BASEBALL STILL HAS MORE OF A LUCK FACTOR for the obvious reasons for the thinking among us!!!!!

College football- undefeateds nearly every year. More extreme than pros
Basketball- nearly an undefeated this year. Often teams with 3-4 losses. More extreme than pros.
Baseball- winning % still not as good or bad as extremes in other sports.

****ing hell the inability to formulate a coherent logical thought!!!!!!! You idiots cannot comprehend an academic argument. Great GREAT reflection on our university****

There is nothing academic about arguing the reason baseball is more competitive/has more parity than other sports is bc of luck. The primary reason baseball is more competitive/has more parity is the overwhelming amount of significance one player (the pitcher) has on the outcome of the game. Every baseball scholar will tell you that. It's not just dumb luck.

[Coach34]

Stop yelling serf. Go sit on a breaking ball.

Smitty arguing with a guy that damn near went to medical school kills me

[Todd4State]

How do you not get that??

The reason subpar teams are more likely to beat above par teams in baseball as compared to other sports is bc in baseball one player, the pitcher, matters more than any other one player in team sports. Take our season this year. Put Stratton on our team and keep everything else the same - we still would suck (maybe be .500 overall instead of 6 games under) but on the day we run Stratton out there we would be odds on favorite to win. It's why betting lines in baseball completely change one day to the next with the same two teams playing only bc the starting pitchers change.

NAIL ON THE HEAD. I will say that it's debatable that the pitcher is the most important player in all of team sports- quarterback- BUT there is no doubt that the pitcher is the most important in baseball.

And that goes back to what I was saying about us recruiting two elite starting pitchers and a closer.

Actually, you compare our team this year to last year. We were comparable offensively to what we were last year, however we made the finals of a regional last year. Why? PITCHING. We had Lindgren and Holder. This year we didn't.

It's not "large statistical sample size" bullshit.

[Smitty]

Nobody said anything about it being ALL luck straw man. The thinking among us can very well see and feel bad for your inability to comprehend logical argumentative points. You can never understand or grasp the concept and that's fine.

Scouting reports show EXACTLY where someone will hit the ball Todd? Really? There's NO luck involved in batted balls? Okay..... The scouting report was the reason for a robbed HR? Okay....

The fact that you actually link a statistical phenomenon to a personal insult to players is probably the most telling thing of the whole discussion.

[BulldogBear]

Is this a game thread??

I thought the season was over***

[Todd4State]

Nobody said anything about it being ALL luck straw man. The thinking among us can very well see and feel bad for your inability to comprehend logical argumentative points. You can never understand or grasp the concept and that's fine.

Scouting reports show EXACTLY where someone will hit the ball Todd? Really? There's NO luck involved in batted balls? Okay..... The scouting report was the reason for a robbed HR? Okay....

The fact that you actually link a statistical phenomenon to a personal insult to players is probably the most telling thing of the whole discussion.

And the crawfishing starts....

It's not JUST scouting straw man- MOST of it has to do with reps in practice more than anything. Robbing a home run is one of the more difficult plays that an outfielder has to make- and most dangerous. They have to practice finding the wall while keeping their eye on the ball while running with their back turned towards the wall, know when to time their leap, and have the talent and physical ability to make the play. If an outfielder screws it up- they could knock themselves out for awhile.

Also- the player has to have the ability and be in top physical condition to make that play- that's where all the weight room work and training pays off.

And then scouting comes into it as well- outfielders are supposed to know where to set up for each hitter based on their tendencies.

Obviously a scouting report won't show you exactly where a ball will be hit at any given moment- but it will give you an idea of the area where it is most likely to be hit. And if you can set up your defense accordingly, you can increase your odds of being in position to make a play. Don't believe me? Look at all the shifts in baseball the past couple of years.

I think it would be remiss to say that there is NO luck in baseball- but it's way less than you realize or can even fathom at your level of baseball knowledge. To me, something like Gene Morgan getting knocked out by a line drive is bad luck. An umpire making a poor call is bad luck. Those are things that are totally out of a players control. A guy robbing a home run is a good play by the hitter, a poorly executed pitch by the pitcher and an even better play by the outfielder. What's the difference? The players have a degree of control over their actions- and therefore it becomes about execution vs. not executing.

I know you are obviously incapable of understanding this, but baseball is not just about "statistical phenomenon". It is telling because it underscores just how little of a clue you have about the game. You're basically saying that hard work, study, working out doesn't really matter- because it's all a "statistical phenomenon" and that's absolute bullshit. Especially coming from someone that obviously hasn't played the game. You have NO clue how hard those guys work to even get where they are- and then they have to work that much harder to stay there. So, yeah- it is an insult to everyone who plays the game.

[Todd4State]

Is this a game thread??

I thought the season was over***

No- it's your typical daily showing of Smitty making himself look like a baseball idiot- and him having absolutely no clue as to why until page four. And then he'll start to crawfish and try to pretend like he was saying the "right" thing all along.

[Drugdog]

Thank you.

Bottom line mf'ers:

1. Cohen drives us all nuts
2. That being said- he has won an SEC title at Kentucky- which is damn near impossible- and led us to the best season in school history.
3. Is he perfect? **** no

He needs to get his ass back in the NCAA Tourney- or he needs to go coach somewhere else. We arent rebuilding anymore- so one bad season can be excused- 2 in a row cant. Get better or get gone

And the congregation said "Amen"

[maroonmania]

NAIL ON THE HEAD. I will say that it's debatable that the pitcher is the most important player in all of team sports- quarterback- BUT there is no doubt that the pitcher is the most important in baseball.

And that goes back to what I was saying about us recruiting two elite starting pitchers and a closer.

Actually, you compare our team this year to last year. We were comparable offensively to what we were last year, however we made the finals of a regional last year. Why? PITCHING. We had Lindgren and Holder. This year we didn't.

It's not "large statistical sample size" bullshit.

Yep, unlike football, basketball, hockey, soccer, etc., in baseball every time you play the same team they are a DIFFFERENT team every time based on who is pitching. For example, OM is going to have fits today playing Maryland because Maryland has one absolute stud pitcher which changes the whole dynamic. Only sport I know that the favorite in the game changes from game to game based on who the pitchers are.