Pitching

[I seen it dawg]

Watch how Childress at A&M teaches pitching. Not cute and pound the zone. Especially control both sides of the plate with the fastball. It's not damn hard or revolutionary.

[Todd4State]

I'll bet they don't have a Bitch Mobbbbb either.

[Smitty]

And they all can swing the stick

[engie]

4 year ERA averages as of yesterday -- after this terrible season for us.

LSU 2.7925
Arkansas 2.86
South Carolina 3.155
Vanderbilt 3.175
Mississippi St. 3.235
Texas A&M 3.2725
Florida 3.3825
Ole Miss 3.4475
Auburn 3.525
Kentucky 3.845
Missouri 3.9675
Alabama 3.975
Georgia 4.1725
Tennessee 4.36

Keeping in mind that this skews against us -- and the 54 bad games we played this year counted the same as the 71 good ones we played in 2013, as it was 2 steps easier to accumulate that way.

[Really Clark?]

4 year ERA averages as of yesterday -- after this terrible season for us.

LSU 2.7925
Arkansas 2.86
South Carolina 3.155
Vanderbilt 3.175
Mississippi St. 3.235
Texas A&M 3.2725
Florida 3.3825
Ole Miss 3.4475
Auburn 3.525
Kentucky 3.845
Missouri 3.9675
Alabama 3.975
Georgia 4.1725
Tennessee 4.36

Keeping in mind that this skews against us -- and the 54 bad games we played this year counted the same as the 71 good ones we played in 2013, as it was 2 steps easier to accumulate that way.

Very true. 2012-2014 our three year avg era was 2.81. That's a really good stretch and shows how off we were this year.

[msstate7]

Very true. 2012-2014 our three year avg era was 2.81. That's a really good stretch and shows how off we were this year.

Is our pitching strategy flawed with the new balls?

[Really Clark?]

Is our pitching strategy flawed with the new balls?

I think it was a definite contributor and you can say that about everybody. The SEC as a whole is .5 era higher from last year. I think with the type of pitchers we have it compounded our problem with the ball but make no mistake talent compared to the last few years was a piece of the puzzle. I think some of our more talented pitchers are still learning and then you had Mitchell, even the people who thought it might effect him more than some guys but probably not to the extent it actually did. We kind of hit a perfect storm that went against us this year.

I will say I like having a mix of different type of pitchers on staff. But I do think, in more than one aspect of the team, we might have overcooked going in one direction to take advantage to the prior equipment being used.

[engie]

Is our pitching strategy flawed with the new balls?

Behind more than currently flawed IMO. We've been back to recruiting power since the Hudson/Sexton class when it first looked like the new ball thing might happen. We got nothing from the FR class this year(it might be a total bust on the hill -- scary) and that Soph class isn't as far along as we need it to be development-wise, with a couple of elite talents still putting the pieces together to go along with a couple of thusfar total busts. Incoming class is power arm after power arm if it doesn't get decimated in 3 weeks. I'm as confident about the draft as I've been. Seems almost all of the late shuffling is going in our favor for once. Obviously no guarantees there.

[messageboardsuperhero]

You want to know why we're so bad on the hill this year? Just look at our 2011 and 2012 recruiting classes:

John Marc Shelly (might have contributed if not for injury)
Wes Stokes
Will Cox
Trevor Fitts
Jon Holder (obviously left after last year)
Jacob Lindgren (about to be in MLB)
Bret Marks
Brandon Woodruff (gone)

These are our juniors and seniors on the hill- at least the ones who didn't leave after their junior year. We have absolutely zero high end draft picks/elite upperclassmen right now. None whatsoever. Losing juniors to the draft is great and what you want in your program, but you have to be able to replace them with more talented players. We did a terrible job stockpiling pitching talent after Lindgren and Holder and paid the price for that this year. Couple this with a slowly developing and inconsistent (but pretty talented) sophomore class- and you're looking at the worst pitching staff we've had in half a decade, right after being one of the three best cumulative pitching teams in the SEC in the three years prior.

With the way it seemingly takes our pitchers three years to produce, we put a ton of pressure on our recruiting to reload with elite talent every year. When you miss big a couple of years in a row, this past year is what you get. And it's pretty discouraging that the 2014 class has given us nothing to feel good about yet- although I still like the potential of McCord and Daniel Brown. It obviously goes without saying that we need to see faster development on the hill in the future...

[Todd4State]

Is our pitching strategy flawed with the new balls?

I honestly don't believe the balls have very much to do with it. As good as Butch has done with guys in the past- engie's stats bear that out- he did an AWFUL job this year. I believe we would have been much better off- as in going to a regional had we simply started Hudson, Tatum, and Sexton and then used Laster as our Lindgren/Girodo/Reed along with Fitts and Houston.

Now, could Tatum and Hudson have given us 6-7 innings every week? I doubt it. I do think that they could have given us three- and after those three, that's when you bring in Laster. Then you pitch Sexton on Saturday knowing he is likely going to go longer than Hudson or Tatum and when he runs out of gas you go with Houston. And then on Sunday you go with Tatum, Fitts, and then maybe Laster for an inning or two depending on his Friday outing.

What we did was- pitch Laster on Friday, get shut down by the other teams ace. Pitch Preston on Saturday- he gets shelled into oblivion and then we decide to go with Ross who who also got shelled. Then get a respectable performance out of Sexton probably with Houston or Fitts closing. And then maybe we get an inning out of Hudson somewhere along the way.

I'm not saying my way would have been perfect- but I am saying that it would have been a LOT better.

Butch's devotion to Ross and to a lesser extent Fitts KILLED US. Hell, it got to the point where Cohen took over the staff for the most part. It's not a coincidence that the majority of Hudson's outings came in the second half of SEC play.

We have FIVE pitchers going to the Cape this year- and that is reason for hope. It also means that we have talent on our staff- and there is no excuse for us to be last in the SEC in pitching. IF the guys going to the Cape make big jumps like Stratton and Lindgren did- we should be pretty good next year. Watching how Hudson, Sexton, Tatum, Houston, and Daniel Brown progress this summer is worth watching for us this summer- because they are going to be the key to next year. I still believe in Levi Mintz as well- he was solid until he hit a wall at the end of the year- and with him being just a RS freshman, I think he could be our next long relief hero like Reed.

So, in short- yeah, I think our pitching strategy was flawed this year. But no, I don't think it has much to do with the balls. Unless your talking about some of pitchers lack thereof last year.

[Todd4State]

You want to know why we're so bad on the hill this year? Just look at our 2011 and 2012 recruiting classes:

John Marc Shelly (might have contributed if not for injury)
Wes Stokes
Will Cox
Trevor Fitts
Jon Holder (obviously left after last year)
Jacob Lindgren (about to be in MLB)
Bret Marks
Brandon Woodruff (gone)

These are our juniors and seniors on the hill- at least the ones who didn't leave after their junior year. We have absolutely zero high end draft picks/elite upperclassmen right now. None whatsoever. Losing juniors to the draft is great and what you want in your program, but you have to be able to replace them with more talented players. We did a terrible job stockpiling pitching talent after Lindgren and Holder and paid the price for that this year. Couple this with a slowly developing and inconsistent (but pretty talented) sophomore class- and you're looking at the worst pitching staff we've had in half a decade, right after being one of the three best cumulative pitching teams in the SEC in the three years prior.

With the way it seemingly takes our pitchers three years to produce, we put a ton of pressure on our recruiting to reload with elite talent every year. When you miss big a couple of years in a row, this past year is what you get. And it's pretty discouraging that the 2014 class has given us nothing to feel good about yet- although I still like the potential of McCord and Daniel Brown. It obviously goes without saying that we need to see faster development on the hill in the future...

It boggles my mind how our pitchers can look completely clueless one year- and then lights out dominant the next.

I wouldn't count on either McCord or Daniel Brown. I don't know that either have it together mentally- and then there is McCord's mysterious surgery. We know how that usually works out for our pitchers. Brown has the potential- but I still don't think he has gotten over giving up that home run to Western Kentucky.

[Smitty]

Brown has the potential- but I still don't think he has gotten over giving up that home run to Western Kentucky.

/rolls eyes

[Todd4State]

/rolls eyes

ERA before WKU- 0.75

ERA including WKU game- 10.84

And that doesn't include the 10 K's/10 BB's ratio with the WKU game and thereafter compared to 18 K's and 2 BB's before.

He also allowed 15 hits in the 8.1 IP since the WKU game.

The stats all point to the guy being a head case.

[KB21]

Do we know exactly what surgery McCord had?

I said before the year that the key to the pitching staff was going to be the emergence of Dakota Hudson, Austin Sexton, and Vance Tatum. I felt like those three needed to emerge and become the starters. That didn't happen, and the pitching staff was not effective.

I'll say it again. We need two bell cows that will give us 70+ innings on the year, and the ideal situation is for Hudson, Sexton, and Tatum to be the starters. I also wouldn't rule out Zac Houston as a starter at this point.

Our overall talent with pitching will be much improved in 2016, but a lot will depend upon how close the freshmen are to contributing.

[zdawg]

looking forward to 2016 !

[BankerDog]

You want to know why we're so bad on the hill this year? Just look at our 2011 and 2012 recruiting classes:

John Marc Shelly (might have contributed if not for injury)
Wes Stokes
Will Cox
Trevor Fitts
Jon Holder (obviously left after last year)
Jacob Lindgren (about to be in MLB)
Bret Marks
Brandon Woodruff (gone)

These are our juniors and seniors on the hill- at least the ones who didn't leave after their junior year. We have absolutely zero high end draft picks/elite upperclassmen right now. None whatsoever. Losing juniors to the draft is great and what you want in your program, but you have to be able to replace them with more talented players. We did a terrible job stockpiling pitching talent after Lindgren and Holder and paid the price for that this year. Couple this with a slowly developing and inconsistent (but pretty talented) sophomore class- and you're looking at the worst pitching staff we've had in half a decade, right after being one of the three best cumulative pitching teams in the SEC in the three years prior.

With the way it seemingly takes our pitchers three years to produce, we put a ton of pressure on our recruiting to reload with elite talent every year. When you miss big a couple of years in a row, this past year is what you get. And it's pretty discouraging that the 2014 class has given us nothing to feel good about yet- although I still like the potential of McCord and Daniel Brown. It obviously goes without saying that we need to see faster development on the hill in the future...


You realize Marks is the Friday night starter at TN, right? He has been pretty good on the mound this year. You can also say that Thompson keeps trying to get these cute little side arm guys and drops their velocity to the point they're no longer effective. People blame Cohen a lot, but why is it Thompson only gets one year out of his pitchers? Lingo looks pretty decent as a freshman starter gets hurt, we don't see him again. He becomes a head case his sophomore year. We finally get something out of his JR year. In fact, the only guys who are consistent are his Juco starters he brings in (Pollo, Laster). And those are guys he started out in the bullpen every year AFTER they were consistent starters the year before. When is the last time a pitcher has given us three to four good years on the mound? I do not wanna hear about how freshman cannot contribute, look at Nola and Posche( spelling?). There are countless other examples. We only get something out of our pitchers for one year except Graveman and Pollo.

[Dawgfan1013]

Do we know exactly what surgery McCord had?

I said before the year that the key to the pitching staff was going to be the emergence of Dakota Hudson, Austin Sexton, and Vance Tatum. I felt like those three needed to emerge and become the starters. That didn't happen, and the pitching staff was not effective.

I'll say it again. We need two bell cows that will give us 70+ innings on the year, and the ideal situation is for Hudson, Sexton, and Tatum to be the starters. I also wouldn't rule out Zac Houston as a starter at this point.

Our overall talent with pitching will be much improved in 2016, but a lot will depend upon how close the freshmen are to contributing.

Mccord tore his labrum the summer before he got here. I personally heard that from him. I met him through Gridley in football season last year at tailgate. He should be throwing again this summer and be back in the fall. He seemed pretty upbeat about the fact that he will throw now without the soreness (said he seemed more sore after stints all fall and early in the spring than ever before.)

[maroonmania]

Mccord tore his labrum the summer before he got here. I personally heard that from him. I met him through Gridley in football season last year at tailgate. He should be throwing again this summer and be back in the fall. He seemed pretty upbeat about the fact that he will throw now without the soreness (said he seemed more sore after stints all fall and early in the spring than ever before.)

Those are the kinds of things that it would be good if it was known. On the surface it appears that a lot of our pitchers are getting injured under Butch. However, when you look closer a number of the pitchers with injuries are getting injured before they even get here (like Young) and then we are left with the fallout.

[Really Clark?]

You realize Marks is the Friday night starter at TN, right? He has been pretty good on the mound this year. You can also say that Thompson keeps trying to get these cute little side arm guys and drops their velocity to the point they're no longer effective. People blame Cohen a lot, but why is it Thompson only gets one year out of his pitchers? Lingo looks pretty decent as a freshman starter gets hurt, we don't see him again. He becomes a head case his sophomore year. We finally get something out of his JR year. In fact, the only guys who are consistent are his Juco starters he brings in (Pollo, Laster). And those are guys he started out in the bullpen every year AFTER they were consistent starters the year before. When is the last time a pitcher has given us three to four good years on the mound? I do not wanna hear about how freshman cannot contribute, look at Nola and Posche( spelling?). There are countless other examples. We only get something out of our pitchers for one year except Graveman and Pollo.

Do what? Holder, Mitchell, Bracewell, Reed, Lindgren, Fitts, etc. All had at least two good years if not more. Fitts has been good for 4 years. Actually wished he had more innings over his time here

[engie]

Woody in the summer as well. We've had our share of arm injuries particularly the last two/three years. But most of the big/key injuries have happened when guys were not under Butch's control.

Personally, it all comes back to s&c. They can talk about how hard our baseball team is working -- but I don't see it in their physical or mental makeup. Then again, it doesn't matter how hard you lift and run if you are eating fast food, drinking a 12 pack every night, not sleeping like you should, and generally not taking care of your business or giving a damn about stuff. Then again, if you are busting guys' asses hard enough in the gym, it will force them to choose between the two as it becomes exhausting to the point it's impossible to do both(at least regularly) unless you are a total freak show. Which we obviously don't have at this time. It's a vicious cycle that has been allowed to transpire. Fix the gym work, and it goes a long way toward fixing everything else IMO. Or for goodness sake, at least let one of these guys sprain a vag doing squats and cleans to the point of exhaustion, and let's see 10-20 lb transformations this fall(not necessarily saying purely weight gained -- but muscle gained - fat lost) and make the mental midgets quit so we can get back to being MSU.

[KB21]

Those are the kinds of things that it would be good if it was known. On the surface it appears that a lot of our pitchers are getting injured under Butch. However, when you look closer a number of the pitchers with injuries are getting injured before they even get here (like Young) and then we are left with the fallout.

I think we are getting the wear and tear that happens when these guys pitch year round like they have been.

[BankerDog]

Do what? Holder, Mitchell, Bracewell, Reed, Lindgren, Fitts, etc. All had at least two good years if not more. Fitts has been good for 4 years. Actually wished he had more innings over his time here

I messed that up, our STARTing pitchers. Ross and Holder were great for three years. Lingo was only good for a year. Fitts could only go through a lineup one time. Reed was head case that no one wanted to pitch before his one good year. Bracewell was serviceable for what he did.

[BankerDog]

I think we are getting the wear and tear that happens when these guys pitch year round like they have been.

I would actually like to see our starting pitchers and guys who have logged a few innings only throw a little during the summer to save their arms. Have them throw some bullpen and what not throughout summer. I think the Cape is great for guys who haven't logged a bunch of innings, but for a guy like Sexton going up there again; I would like to see him only get a few innings. Their arms are not really getting rest they need.

[Really Clark?]

I messed that up, our STARTing pitchers. Ross and Holder were great for three years. Lingo was only good for a year. Fitts could only go through a lineup one time. Reed was head case that no one wanted to pitch before his one good year. Bracewell was serviceable for what he did.

I see what you are saying in reference with starting pitching. But Reed was good in 2011 and 2012. 122.1 IP, 60 games, 2.01 era and 21 saves for those two years were very good. I think Lingo was really good for one year and very serviceable his first. But I can see the issue of the year between those years. I actually think Fitts could have went longer at times. He had 10 SEC starts last year and a 1.93 era in those games. I think he could have went longer but we were still in such a committee mode that it effected how long we would leave guys out there. I do think he was really a long or mid relief guy in actuality and would have been great in that role.

[Todd4State]

Mccord tore his labrum the summer before he got here. I personally heard that from him. I met him through Gridley in football season last year at tailgate. He should be throwing again this summer and be back in the fall. He seemed pretty upbeat about the fact that he will throw now without the soreness (said he seemed more sore after stints all fall and early in the spring than ever before.)

That's a tough injury for a pitcher to recover from. Ask Mark Prior. And hence why I am not counting on McCord going forward until he proves that he is healthy.