If you are Cohen, what types of hitters are you recruiting?

[Irondawg]

Lots of talk about our emphasis on defense/speed vs power. If you were in charge, what attributes are you looking for in hitters you are recruiting at the various positions?

To get them on campus you either have to find an overlooked guy or someone that MLB sees as having big enough flaw to not draft early in the draft.

[SouthMsDawg]

5'7-10" 155-175 good defenders and can lay down and beat out a mean bunt single.

[5 Star]

There are usually not huge numbers of power hitters available. The MLB draft signs most of them.

[Irondawg]

Part of this is a "why have we missed so much" on hitter lately. Obviously what we look for is flawed or we've had bad luck. I'm not sure Cohen lately has been very focused on how to piece together the team and the lineup. At a high level you are focuses on getting the best talend available but you should also have an idea of what type of guy you want at each position.

[Bubb Rubb]

Once again, I think you need a healthy mix. The perfect lineup has high speed/OBP guys in the 1 and 6 holes, high contact and gap power guys in the 2 and 7-8 holes, and power bats everywhere else. Get em on, get em over, get em in, ideally without the need for so much bunting. If your lineup is constructed correctly, you don't need to play for one run, because you always have the chance of getting a crooked number up there.

[Irondawg]

Which is kind of what I'm asking - how does each of you think cohehn SHOULD recruit for the positions.

[RossDawg82]

I think the lineup needs to be peppered with fast defensive minded hitters that can get on base and hit to all sides of the field. But most importantly, we need at least 3 guys that can turn a pitchers mistake into runs. Right now we don't have the power guys. So if a pitcher walks the first guy or gives up a leadoff double, the other team assumes that we will only get 1 run out of it. We need to have some guys who pitchers fear and can put up runs with one swing of the bat. It doesn't have to be just bombs, but some gap power as well. Pitchers do not fear anything we put at the plate right now and it is killing us

[engie]

The kind where you get 2 of the top 23 home run hitters in the country per maxpreps, one of the top 5 homerun hitters in JUCO, and the guy that entered the season considered one of the best power potential guys in all of HS baseball before struggling thru his senior season...

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/demo/m_20150520-fauo-104kb.jpg

[RougeDawg]

Lots of talk about our emphasis on defense/speed vs power. If you were in charge, what attributes are you looking for in hitters you are recruiting at the various positions?

To get them on campus you either have to find an overlooked guy or someone that MLB sees as having big enough flaw to not draft early in the draft.

This should not be the question. It's become apparent that without a different hitting instructor, we will continue to teach the same shitty mechanics to whoever we go after. Why is this so difficult to understand? With a good, mechanics oriented hitting coach our current players would have dramatic improvement.

Todd himself has stated that he's expected more from the players we have signed the last few classes. Why haven't they lived up to expectations? Why have our better hitters during the Cohen years played a year or two under another college program?

I continue to see these questions about how we should "bail the water out" without addressing the problem "of why they water is coming in". Stop it Already, and see why our hitters have not produced.

[Really Clark?]

This should not be the question. It's become apparent that without a different hitting instructor, we will continue to teach the same shitty mechanics to whoever we go after. Why is this so difficult to understand? With a good, mechanics oriented hitting coach our current players would have dramatic improvement.

Todd himself has stated that he's expected more from the players we have signed the last few classes. Why haven't they lived up to expectations? Why have our better hitters during the Cohen years played a year or two under another college program?

I continue to see these questions about how we should "bail the water out" without addressing the problem "of why they water is coming in". Stop it Already, and see why our hitters have not produced.

The post didn't ask about what to do about instruction and you do have to look at what different atheletes bring to the table and can be enhanced. It is not cookie cutter. While I wholeheartedly disagree with you on mechanics and have called out several times for being behind the times and such, as evident by our recent debates, I do agree with the thought process that you can definitely enhance what you do have. He can do it as well and has in the past. I think it might do him a lot of good to get back to the basics and evaluate what has been his successes and keep it simple for a while. I have no internal knowledge that the program is too complicated but there is a disconnect these last two years with multiple players. And it is just a guess that he has gone too extreme with a philosphy and is too meticulous at times.

Eta. I guess I did the same thing. As far as type of hitters. Obviously the really elite guys everybody is after but I love projects. Love to find a raw power guy and a solid striker that have a flaw or physically need grooming, etc. but most importantly a guy who wants to put in more work than what is good for their body. Hard to find some of those.

[MsStateBaseball]

Hitters with the attitude of Will Clark. I am not up here to walk (Rea) or bunt (Vickerson), I know that is a little harsh but aggressive hitters who love to hit.

[Todd4State]

I think the biggest thing is understanding what you want and what MLB wants. What I mean by that is we know MLB wants guys like Vallot because of their power potential. The odds of getting someone like that isn't great though. So, here's what I would do:

1. Try to get two truly elite high end power hitters- Pickett and Riley are perfect examples of this because they have MSU ties and that increases our odds of getting them. That isn't always going to be the case every year. Taking a couple of Vallot's and hoping for the best is OK. Maybe even three especially if they have MSU ties.

2. Knowing that we aren't likely to get our two elite guys, we need to take three Brent Rooker types- guys with power potential that are raw but will likely develop into power hitters in college. THIS is where we have been failing lately. Give me two Rookers over Matt Spruill and Seth Heck any day.

3. Finish the class out with 3-5 speed guys that are going to hit for a high average, can steal bases, bunt, and put pressure on the defense.

4. Maybe a catcher like a Slauter or a Lovelady if they are elite defensively even though they may not be a great hitter. But only if we can't find an elite hitting catcher first.

So, out of that- hopefully we get one elite power hitter, three raw power hitters, and about four speed guys and a catcher.

[Billy Ray Valentine]

Hitters with the attitude of Will Clark. I am not up here to walk (Rea) or bunt (Vickerson), I know that is a little harsh but aggressive hitters who love to hit.

What he said^^^Somebody with a ****ing attitude

[engie]

What he said^^^Somebody with a ****ing attitude

Agreed.

Give me 8 Travis Chapmans and let's go win a title.

[KB21]

I think the biggest thing is understanding what you want and what MLB wants. What I mean by that is we know MLB wants guys like Vallot because of their power potential. The odds of getting someone like that isn't great though. So, here's what I would do:

1. Try to get two truly elite high end power hitters- Pickett and Riley are perfect examples of this because they have MSU ties and that increases our odds of getting them. That isn't always going to be the case every year. Taking a couple of Vallot's and hoping for the best is OK. Maybe even three especially if they have MSU ties.

2. Knowing that we aren't likely to get our two elite guys, we need to take three Brent Rooker types- guys with power potential that are raw but will likely develop into power hitters in college. THIS is where we have been failing lately. Give me two Rookers over Matt Spruill and Seth Heck any day.

3. Finish the class out with 3-5 speed guys that are going to hit for a high average, can steal bases, bunt, and put pressure on the defense.

4. Maybe a catcher like a Slauter or a Lovelady if they are elite defensively even though they may not be a great hitter. But only if we can't find an elite hitting catcher first.

So, out of that- hopefully we get one elite power hitter, three raw power hitters, and about four speed guys and a catcher.

I agree with this. Most of your legitimate power guys who can blast the ball out of major league parks will end up signing pro contracts. You have to recruit them to get them, but your chances of getting them are slim. In your instance, we are getting two this year who will likely come to school because of their ties to the school. Pickett was once considered to be one of the top power hitting prospects, so I'm not sure why he has dropped on draft boards lately.

Then there are guys with power potential who may not have the proper swing mechanics/ability to recognize pitches to generate the type of bat speed they need. A guy like Joe Swinarski fits this bill, Brent Rooker.....Reid Humphreys. Hunter Renfroe was one of these types of prospects, and it wasn't until his third year that he realized his power.

When we look at a guy like Wes Rea, he has some pop, but he really has change up bat speed and not fastball bat speed. Despite his frame, he was never going to be a big home run guy because of his bat speed.

Daniel Garner was a power guy who could not recognize pitches to save his life.

[BankerDog]

The thing is though. We don't steal. We have had Robson, Armstrong, Smith, Brown, Bradford, heck even Jet Butler but we refuse to steal. Bradford stole 4 bases in one SEC game last year and never tried again. Ridiculous. Even that's the guy we recruit we need to be more aggressive stealing bases.

As far as hitters. Get guys who can hit it in the gap and have power potential. Also not messing with their swings unless they struggle would help. I have heard Cohen messed with Reynolds swing before he said screw it and he went back to what he was comfortable with. Let us not forget everyone was really excited about the Dillion hire because of what he did for Iowa State and how he played at Baylor. Lot of guys have told me Cohen just needs to let Dillon do
his job instead of butting into it.

[bulldogcountry1]

I would like to see him going after good hitters and then teaching them how to play defense. It seems Cohen has been doing the opposite since he got here, yet we still manage to have so many players either playing out of position or not being able to find a defensive home. Then, half of the lineup ends up being good defenders who can't hit and aren't playing their best position. So what have you really gained?

[I seen it dawg]

Guys that can ****ing hit.

[Irondawg]

It's never an exact science but projecting hitters should be easier than pitchers for the most part. Especially for the smaller guys. When scouting it's pretty apparent their natural approach at the plate, their contact rate, the batspeed, the speed on the bases, etc. Accounting for what their ceiling truly is can be difficult but finding a style for most of your lineup isn't a problem. Sometimes you hit (ala a guy like Pirtle) and other times you don't.

My problem with what we had this year is we didn't use what little strenghts our guys had as Banker said. We were flipping 13th in SB attempts when we should have been top 5 at least.

So as an example of what I'd look for when developing a lineup is i'd like 2 guys with elite speed and 2 guys with abover average speed to man CF, SS, 2B, LF. so there I'm looking for speed + defense coupled with the best contact rate/batting eye I can find. Those guys are going to fill the 1, 2, 8 and 9 holes in the order in my mind most years.

1B/DH have to be power guys - i need some run producers here that can deliver some big innings.

RF/3B are combo guys - they have to be able to hit for some power, but they also have to be at least average defensively and I'd prefer at least slightly abover average at 3B so if I sacrifice the bat there a little I would, but it simply can't be guys like Heck or Britton unless injuries dictate it.

C - you elminate anyoe who isn't a good receiver/thrower and then just find the best hitter you can from the remaining pool. We're close with Collins now - he can hit, he can throw - but problem is he hasn't learned how to catch very well and it's a problem for us and has/will cost us games. We've had trouble finding a decent enough overall package lately here.

So if I'm cohen in my mind I'm recruiter for an order like this (2B, LF, DH, 1B, RF, 3B, C, SS, CF). Obviously it mixes based on what you actually get and how it develops.

[tcdog70]

I'll take a Richard Lee/Tommy Raffo type hitter kinda like this Nate Lowe

[Really Clark?]

I'll take a Richard Lee/Tommy Raffo type hitter kinda like this Nate Lowe


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpryd_lRXTw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFivK5Hzfoc

[Mutt the Hoople]

Guys who don't look at Strike Threes like some pink-pantied Prison sissy.

[BankerDog]

Its about time we have someone with some swagger that isn't afraid to swing the bat and shove it in the pitcher's face.

[KB21]

Bumping this thread back up. I think you can look at the last three recruiting classing, including the 2015 class that will be coming in this fall, and see what kind of hitter the team is starting to recruit:

2013 Signees:
Reid Humphreys
Brent Rooker
Dylan Ingram
Gavin Collins
Joey Swinarski
Seth Heck
Jake Vickerson
Cody Walker

2014 Signees:
Cole Gordon
Luke Reynolds
Chase Vallot
Ryan Gridley
John Holland
Michael Smith
Dale Burdick
Taylor Stafford
Matt Spruill
Josh Lovelady

2015 Signees:
Luke Alexander
Austin Riley
Hunter Stovall
Jake Mangum
Brant Blaylock
Elih Marrero
Greg Pickett
Delvin Zinn
Nathaniel Lowe

So, there is clearly a mix here. There are several guys with natural raw power in their swings, and then there are some middle infield/center field speed/contact hitting types. There has been some attrition, and some of the power guys were lost to the draft like Vallot and Burdick, as well as Dupont from the 2013 class that I did not include for some reason.

[5 Star]

There has been some attrition, and some of the power guys were lost to the draft like Vallot and Burdick, as well as Dupont from the 2013 class that I did not include for some reason.
The attrition, for the various reasons, has been the issue, not the recruiting strategy. Daniel Garner was another power guy we lost. Nic Flair is another. Philip Casey from the 2011 class hit a home run his freshman season before transferring. Taylor Stark also had some power, but he would have graduated last year.

[maroonmania]

The attrition, for the various reasons, has been the issue, not the recruiting strategy. Daniel Garner was another power guy we lost. Nic Flair is another. Philip Casey from the 2011 class hit a home run his freshman season before transferring. Taylor Stark also had some power, but he would have graduated last year.

It does seem we can't seem to get guys that hit for some power AND maintain a reasonable batting average AND not be a total liability in the field. Now that may be as much of an indictment on our coaching staff not developing those guys properly as it does the players themselves, I don't know, but I do know we were all pretty high on guys like Garner and Flair when they first signed on with our program.

[5 Star]

It does seem we can't seem to get guys that hit for some power AND maintain a reasonable batting average AND not be a total liability in the field. Now that may be as much of an indictment on our coaching staff not developing those guys properly as it does the players themselves, I don't know, but I do know we were all pretty high on guys like Garner and Flair when they first signed on with our program.
This is a problem all over college baseball. Since the MLB Draft takes most of the multi-tool power hitters, you are left with picking your poison - hitting for power or playing great defense. As you say, most power hitters are not good in the field. Of course, at the end of the day, the best coaches are the ones who deal with this problem the best. And without good pitching, it really does not matter anyway, because you cannot compete without that, as we found out this year.

[KB21]

It does seem we can't seem to get guys that hit for some power AND maintain a reasonable batting average AND not be a total liability in the field. Now that may be as much of an indictment on our coaching staff not developing those guys properly as it does the players themselves, I don't know, but I do know we were all pretty high on guys like Garner and Flair when they first signed on with our program.

I think sometimes you recruit guys who have some raw power but completely lack the ability to recognize a pitch.

You do have to wonder how/why a guy like Brent Rooker plays in a competitive wood bat league, is among the league leaders in home runs, and doesn't show the same power in the spring with metal bats.

[Tbonewannabe]

Agreed.

Give me 8 Travis Chapmans and let's go win a title.

If Travis had a runner on 1st and 2nd with 2 outs in the bottom of the ninth, he would have been walking to the plate smiling. He knew he was going to drive in the run. Everybody on our team now would be praying to get walked so the next guy could maybe draw another walk.