6A game vs DeSoto and Oak Grove, my thoughts

[MsStateBaseball]

Austin Riley started and in 3rd or 4th have up some hits, he gave up 4 runs. Riley is not a dominating starting pitcher to be a 1st rounder. I have seen him twice and yes he throws 89-93, he still gets hit good. Hes not a MLB rotation guy. He might be a closer for sure. Saying this for his draft status.

For him to choose pitching over hitting or vice versa, I don't think he's ready to choose. So I think he goes to college. He's good at both.

Everyone understand? If he's a great pitcher and will be a MLB starting pitcher, he will be a 1\2 rounder. But I don't think he's a starting MLB pitcher. If MLB wants him to play 3B and hit, is he ready to give up pitching for good?

All our other signees did well.

Yes, John Cohen and Mingione were third row up directly behind home plate. They stayed the whole game.

[Todd4State]

Brant Blaylock had some big hits tonight. It's too soon to know what Riley will be in pro ball.

[messageboardsuperhero]

Austin Riley started and in 3rd or 4th have up some hits, he gave up 4 runs. Riley is not a dominating starting pitcher to be a 1st rounder. I have seen him twice and yes he throws 89-93, he still gets hit good. Hes not a MLB rotation guy. He might be a closer for sure. Saying this for his draft status.

For him to choose pitching over hitting or vice versa, I don't think he's ready to choose. So I think he goes to college. He's good at both.

Everyone understand? If he's a great pitcher and will be a MLB starting pitcher, he will be a 1\2 rounder. But I don't think he's a starting MLB pitcher. If MLB wants him to play 3B and hit, is he ready to give up pitching for good?

All our other signees did well.

Yes, John Cohen and Mingione were third row up directly behind home plate. They stayed the whole game.

Interesting...

[ShotgunDawg]

Interesting...

Did you really expect a change here? Or did you guys just talk about it so much that you came to believe it?

Mingione was never going to get let go. He's Cohen's guy &, right or wrong, Cohen doesn't make people a fall guy just to appease the fan base.

[messageboardsuperhero]

Did you really expect a change here? Or did you guys just talk about it so much that you came to believe it?

Mingione was never going to get let go. He's Cohen's guy &, right or wrong, Cohen doesn't make people a fall guy just to appease the fan base.

It was more wishful thinking on my part.

[engie]

Did you really expect a change here? Or did you guys just talk about it so much that you came to believe it?

Mingione was never going to get let go. He's Cohen's guy &, right or wrong, Cohen doesn't make people a fall guy just to appease the fan base.

We aren't asking him "to make him the fall guy to appease the fanbase". We are asking him to make him the fall guy because he's an unqualified goofball that hasn't actually accomplished a damn thing of note while here. Where is Godwin now? Where is McDonnell? Anyone see Mingione as a head guy at a perennially good baseball school in the next year or two? ANYONE? Mingione has now been our hitting/3B coach for the same amount of time OM actually had Godwin. Let that sink in.

That spot should go to the best hitting/one of the best up-and-coming coaches in the country. Not a coattail rider that no one can honestly say brings anything of note to the table and describe that "anything" in detail.

If Cohen is dead set on sticking with him -- fine. But he has to know that this was his get out of jail free card. He better field a damn good offense next year or else he won't have anyone left that still has his back. He's got a chance to "fix" it right now. If he can't/won't -- he doesn't deserve an extra chance if he fields his 4th sub-par offense in 5 years next season. 3 in 4 is enough of a trend to note that changes are needed.

Yes -- I am going to melt pretty hard if changes aren't made. And I don't think that change needs to be Cohen or Butch at this time. So that narrows down the options.

[messageboardsuperhero]

We aren't asking him "to make him the fall guy to appease the fanbase". We are asking him to make him the fall guy because he's an unqualified goofball that hasn't actually accomplished a damn thing of note while here. Where is Godwin now? Where is McDonnell? Anyone see Mingione as a head guy at a perennially good baseball school in the next year or two? ANYONE? Mingione has now been our hitting/3B coach for the same amount of time OM actually had Godwin. Let that sink in.

That spot should go to the best hitting/one of the best up-and-coming coaches in the country. Not a coattail rider that no one can honestly say brings anything of note to the table and describe that "anything" in detail.

If Cohen is dead set on sticking with him -- fine. But he has to know that this was his get out of jail free card. He better field a damn good offense next year or else he won't have anyone left that still has his back. He's got a chance to "fix" it right now. If he can't/won't -- he doesn't deserve an extra chance if he fields his 4th sub-par offense in 5 years next season. 3 in 4 is enough of a trend to note that changes are needed.

Yes -- I am going to melt pretty hard if changes aren't made. And I don't think that change needs to be Cohen or Butch at this time. So that narrows down the options.

My only issue with firing Ming would be that we wouldn't get to watch any more of his badass trick bunting videos.**

Seriously, our offense has been below average for too long. I said this earlier in the year and still believe it now- but IMO, Cohen is currently stretched thin having to be the head coach and hitting coach while Ming basically recruits and teaches our hitters to be mediocre sac bunters. We need to hire a real ****ing hitting coach so Cohen can focus on what he's good at- teaching defense, instilling toughness, and selling our program on the recruiting trail.

[War Machine Dawg]

We aren't asking him "to make him the fall guy to appease the fanbase". We are asking him to make him the fall guy because he's an unqualified goofball that hasn't actually accomplished a damn thing of note while here. Where is Godwin now? Where is McDonnell? Anyone see Mingione as a head guy at a perennially good baseball school in the next year or two? ANYONE? Mingione has now been our hitting/3B coach for the same amount of time OM actually had Godwin. Let that sink in.

That spot should go to the best hitting/one of the best up-and-coming coaches in the country. Not a coattail rider that no one can honestly say brings anything of note to the table and describe that "anything" in detail.

If Cohen is dead set on sticking with him -- fine. But he has to know that this was his get out of jail free card. He better field a damn good offense next year or else he won't have anyone left that still has his back. He's got a chance to "fix" it right now. If he can't/won't -- he doesn't deserve an extra chance if he fields his 4th sub-par offense in 5 years next season. 3 in 4 is enough of a trend to note that changes are needed.

Yes -- I am going to melt pretty hard if changes aren't made. And I don't think that change needs to be Cohen or Butch at this time. So that narrows down the options.

http://i.imgur.com/2YJ5inX.gif

[Todd4State]

I'm fine with Butch staying IF he changes how he approaches things. If you have five guys make the Cape from your pitching staff- you shouldn't finish last in the conference in pitching. The good news is all five will be juniors next year- so they'll hopefully magically figure everything out next year as the trend has gone.

As far as Mingione- keep an eye on Western Carolina.

[engie]

3 elite staffs in a row get you far more slack than 3 really bad offensive teams in 4 years. He will name his head job if the rumors of interference on that side are true. Unlike Mingione, the reigning multiple publication national assistant coach of the year will have good options.

[MetEdDawg]

I'm fine with Butch staying IF he changes how he approaches things. If you have five guys make the Cape from your pitching staff- you shouldn't finish last in the conference in pitching. The good news is all five will be juniors next year- so they'll hopefully magically figure everything out next year as the trend has gone.

As far as Mingione- keep an eye on Western Carolina.

I coach with a guy that was at Auburn during Butch's time there. Some of you may know this, but he said even back then his style of coaching was to get guys to have more movement on their pitches and not necessarily develop velocity on pitches, especially the FB. Said he much preferred an 82-85 MPH FB with movement than a kid that could throw a FB 90+ with little to no movement.

To me that makes no sense. I can understand having one or two of those guys on your roster and I can also understand getting more movement on pitches. But to not concentrate on developing a little more velocity along with that is crazy. I also think this could be why we might be seeing arm problems in our program. If you don't have a ton of movement on your FB, it takes a lot of reps and a lot of time to get comfortable with the arm motion to get the desired movement AND the reps in figuring out the arm slot necessary to use your pitch accurately and effectively. Could be seeing the effects of overthrowing through too many reps trying to get more movement on pitches.

[missouridawg]

I coach with a guy that was at Auburn during Butch's time there. Some of you may know this, but he said even back then his style of coaching was to get guys to have more movement on their pitches and not necessarily develop velocity on pitches, especially the FB. Said he much preferred an 82-85 MPH FB with movement than a kid that could throw a FB 90+ with little to no movement.

To me that makes no sense. I can understand having one or two of those guys on your roster and I can also understand getting more movement on pitches. But to not concentrate on developing a little more velocity along with that is crazy. I also think this could be why we might be seeing arm problems in our program. If you don't have a ton of movement on your FB, it takes a lot of reps and a lot of time to get comfortable with the arm motion to get the desired movement AND the reps in figuring out the arm slot necessary to use your pitch accurately and effectively. Could be seeing the effects of overthrowing through too many reps trying to get more movement on pitches.

Define arm problems.

[MetEdDawg]

Define arm problems.

It's a wide variety of things. Elbow, shoulder, forearm, bicep, tricep, arm fatigue. I feel like over the past 3 seasons we've had a lot of these injuries derail guys for extended periods of time. An abnormally large amount in my opinion. I mean just off the top of my head in the last 3 years we've lost Cox, Gentry, Young, Billingsley, Woodruff, Pollo, McCord, and Shelley to arm injuries. Did I forget anyone else? Not to mention I believe there have been plenty of times where extra rest was required for guys that had arm fatigue. Just seems like we have had way more than our fair share of these arm troubles on our team the past few years.

[confucius say]

Cohen is the hitting coach. Not Ming. Ming is a recruiter. Cohen's background is as an offensive guy. When he speaks, his power points are about hitting, not pitching. He is not firing Ming bc we don't swing it well.

[Irondawg]

Even if we base Ming on just being a recruiter, he hasn't done well there either. We've either misjudged a TON of guys or completely failed to develop them.

[engie]

Cohen is the hitting coach. Not Ming. Ming is a recruiter. Cohen's background is as an offensive guy. When he speaks, his power points are about hitting, not pitching. He is not firing Ming bc we don't swing it well.

So is Mingione one of the best recruiters in the country? Let's stack his resume up against Cliff Godwin's shall we?

Bianco's background is as a pitching guy. That doesn't mean Carl Lafferty is just there as a "recruiter".

He's not qualified for that position. Regardless. And if Cohen can't recognize that what he's doing at the plate isn't working and that he is stretched thin and needs help in that spot then our issues are alot worse than I think they are and his seat will most likely be scalding this time next year.

[confucius say]

Even if we base Ming on just being a recruiter, he hasn't done well there either. We've either misjudged a TON of guys or completely failed to develop them.

Lot of truth there.

[engie]

You are really trying to put all of that on Butch? Half of those arm injuries didn't even occur while guys were here or under Butch's watch.

[confucius say]

So is Mingione one of the best recruiters in the country? Let's stack his resume up against Cliff Godwin's shall we?

Bianco's background is as a pitching guy. That doesn't mean Carl Lafferty is just there as a "recruiter".

I agree with you on the recruiting. But that is changing the narrative. I was simply saying Cohen is our hitting guy and Ming is secondary in that role, and Ming is not getting fired simply bc we didn't swing it well.

[engie]

I agree with you on the recruiting. But that is changing the narrative. I was simply saying Cohen is our hitting guy and Ming is secondary in that role, and Ming is not getting fired simply bc we didn't swing it well.

Where did anyone say "fire him just because we don't swing it well?"

Fire him because he's at one of the 10 best/potentially highest paying assistant coach posts in the country -- was unqualified to be there since day 1 -- and has done NOTHING to change that reality. The dude can't even coach 3B effectively. What does he actually do good enough for us to call him elite? Any coach we add to that slot should do 2-3 things at an absolutely elite level.

"Cohen is the hitting coach" as if he is the only one that is allowed to do any teaching on the hitting aspect of the game is arguably the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Sure, it's his philosophy. A good HITTING coach gets guys mashing -- and Cohen already showed in 2013 he would modify his philosophy to allow mashers to mash.

[Coach34]

I have no inside info from baseball- but I'd be shocked if any changes were made unless Butch gets a head job somewhere

Ming is as responsible for our hitting even less than Koenning or Hud was responsible for our offense under Mullen.

[I seen it dawg]

I coach with a guy that was at Auburn during Butch's time there. Some of you may know this, but he said even back then his style of coaching was to get guys to have more movement on their pitches and not necessarily develop velocity on pitches, especially the FB. Said he much preferred an 82-85 MPH FB with movement than a kid that could throw a FB 90+ with little to no movement.

To me that makes no sense. I can understand having one or two of those guys on your roster and I can also understand getting more movement on pitches. But to not concentrate on developing a little more velocity along with that is crazy. I also think this could be why we might be seeing arm problems in our program. If you don't have a ton of movement on your FB, it takes a lot of reps and a lot of time to get comfortable with the arm motion to get the desired movement AND the reps in figuring out the arm slot necessary to use your pitch accurately and effectively. Could be seeing the effects of overthrowing through too many reps trying to get more movement on pitches.


Butch is very overrated

[confucius say]

Ming is as responsible for our hitting even less than Koenning or Hud was responsible for our offense under Mullen.

Thank you. This is all I was saying. Engine doesn't seem to understand that. If we want to fire Ming bc he doesn't bring enough to the table, I'm fine with that.

But i was responding to the statement in this thread that Ming should be fired so we can bring in a hitting coach and Cohen can focus on other things. News flash, Cohen is not turning over hitting instruction or philosophy to anyone. Sure, other guys, like Ming, can help within the parameters Cohen sets out, but that is it.

[Coach34]

Exactly- we won't get a new hitting coach until Cohen leaves

[confucius say]

Where did anyone say "fire him just because we don't swing it well?"

Fire him because he's at one of the 10 best/potentially highest paying assistant coach posts in the country -- was unqualified to be there since day 1 -- and has done NOTHING to change that reality. The dude can't even coach 3B effectively. What does he actually do good enough for us to call him elite? Any coach we add to that slot should do 2-3 things at an absolutely elite level.

"Cohen is the hitting coach" as if he is the only one that is allowed to do any teaching on the hitting aspect of the game is arguably the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Sure, it's his philosophy. A good HITTING coach gets guys mashing -- and Cohen already showed in 2013 he would modify his philosophy to allow mashers to mash.

Where did I say Cohen is the only one allowed to do ANY teaching on the hitting aspect of the game? I said he is the hitting guy in our program. That's a fact. Others can tweak things, but it's cohen's philosophy, approach, and instruction that rules.

I'm fine with firing Ming. He doesn't bring much to the table. But our problem is a talent problem.