Poll within a Poll

[Smitty]

Since most people voted to bring Cohen back but with staff changes required (hitting coach).. What would your choice be if Cohen REFUSED to make this change?

[bulldogcountry1]

This is a tough one, seeing as how I voted for a staff change requirement in the other one. Cohen may be loyal to Minge, but he's more loyal to MSU. I just don't see him refusing because we obviously need an upgrade. Any refusal would have to be outright stubbornness. I can't imagine a good argument that would make it okay to keep everyone.

[Quaoarsking]

Keep Cohen for 2016 with no strings attached. Cohen can decide for himself who he wants to bet his job with.

If Cohen insists on keeping the current staff intact, fine, but it's his ass that's on the line if we don't make a Regional next year.

[CadaverDawg]

Since most people voted to bring Cohen back but with staff changes required (hitting coach).. What would your choice be if Cohen REFUSED to make this change?

Cohen is not bigger than MSU baseball. If he says no to staff changes, I think Stricklin should start working the back channels like he did with Howland, and as soon as we have a replacement all but guaranteed....give Cohen the axe.

That being said, I think Cohen wants to win and knows staff changes are necessary without even being told, and he will make them.


To change the subject, I was having a conversation with a fellow bulldog yesterday and he asked me a question that I couldn't answer and it made me rethink my view on Cohen a bit. His question...

"Tell me what we're good at. What is our baseball team under John Cohen good at? What defines us in terms of what Cohen makes us good/great at?"

I couldn't answer it. We've been good at pitching during his tenure, but that isn't because of Cohen. I guess we're solid in the field, but nothing outstanding....we have a good on base percentage, but nothing eye popping.....we don't play small ball well for a small ball team...we don't run bases well....we don't hit for power....we don't hit for average....
What do we do well? Walk? Not strikeout a ton? I'm seriously searching for the answer, and that put things into perspective for me. We need to see big strides next year.

I ask you guys...what do we do well under Cohen?

[Todd4State]

I'm not sure why people are assuming that Cohen won't change or will REFUSE to make changes. It's not like he is saying "this is what we are going to do no matter what"- it has actually been quite the opposite. We have two of the top power hitters in the country signed right now- and we'll see if we can get them through the draft- and that's to go along with Cole Gordon, and Brent Rooker.

This wreaks with a bunch of "what I want to hope to believe" rather based in reality.

[Todd4State]

Cohen is not bigger than MSU baseball. If he says no to staff changes, I think Stricklin should start working the back channels like he did with Howland, and as soon as we have a replacement all but guaranteed....give Cohen the axe.

That being said, I think Cohen wants to win and knows staff changes are necessary without even being told, and he will make them.


To change the subject, I was having a conversation with a fellow bulldog yesterday and he asked me a question that I couldn't answer and it made me rethink my view on Cohen a bit. His question...

"Tell me what we're good at. What is our baseball team under John Cohen good at? What defines us in terms of what Cohen makes us good/great at?"

I couldn't answer it. We've been good at pitching during his tenure, but that isn't because of Cohen. I guess we're solid in the field, but nothing outstanding....we have a good on base percentage, but nothing eye popping.....we don't play small ball well for a small ball team...we don't run bases well....we don't hit for power....we don't hit for average....
What do we do well? Walk? Not strikeout a ton? I'm seriously searching for the answer, and that put things into perspective for me. We need to see big strides next year.

I ask you guys...what do we do well under Cohen?

We have pitched well for the most part. And yes- even though Butch gets a lot of credit for that, just like Cohen gets blame for the crappy players he brought in, he should get credit for bringing in and working with Butch. We usually are very solid defensively.

I think that Cohen is good at building and adjusting a team for the current baseball environment- obviously that doesn't appear to be the case at the present moment, but that is more a case of being caught in a change more than anything. A big reason why we went to the NC round was because of how we built our team.

[sandjunky]

My expectation when Cohen was brought in was that we would field a team of hard nose players with talent that had the attitude of we are going to stomp an effing mud hole in the opposition and the other team knew that was what they would be up against

Instead we got bench mob and duck dynasty mixed with WSP

[shoeless joe]

This wreaks with a bunch of "what I want to hope to believe" rather based in reality.

Exactly.

[shoeless joe]

Cohen is not bigger than MSU baseball. If he says no to staff changes, I think Stricklin should start working the back channels like he did with Howland, and as soon as we have a replacement all but guaranteed....give Cohen the axe.

That being said, I think Cohen wants to win and knows staff changes are necessary without even being told, and he will make them.


To change the subject, I was having a conversation with a fellow bulldog yesterday and he asked me a question that I couldn't answer and it made me rethink my view on Cohen a bit. His question...

"Tell me what we're good at. What is our baseball team under John Cohen good at? What defines us in terms of what Cohen makes us good/great at?"

I couldn't answer it. We've been good at pitching during his tenure, but that isn't because of Cohen. I guess we're solid in the field, but nothing outstanding....we have a good on base percentage, but nothing eye popping.....we don't play small ball well for a small ball team...we don't run bases well....we don't hit for power....we don't hit for average....
What do we do well? Walk? Not strikeout a ton? I'm seriously searching for the answer, and that put things into perspective for me. We need to see big strides next year.

I ask you guys...what do we do well under Cohen?

Up until this year I always felt like his teams were gritty and hard nosed. Battled til the very end and came away with victories against teams with more talent.

And just like the old saying goes...show me a bad bullpen and I'll show you a coach on the hot seat (or something along those lines).

[Coach34]

All the banging on Cohen because people don't like all the bunting (neither do I). But the fact of the matter is that we were 13th in the SEC in Pitching. That's why our season was shitty.

[Dawgface]

It's probably been determined he gets another year. I would let him do whatever he feels is best to correct the problems. But I would let him know next year is a must turn around year. Which should be obvious.

[msstate7]

All the banging on Cohen because people don't like all the bunting (neither do I). But the fact of the matter is that we were 13th in the SEC in Pitching. That's why our season was shitty.

So we were bunting (playing for a run) when our pitching couldn't shut people down. Do you see a problem with that? I do and if Cohen doesn't, then he's probably gonna enter his last year next season

[Really Clark?]

So we were bunting (playing for a run) when our pitching couldn't shut people down. Do you see a problem with that? I do and if Cohen doesn't, then he's probably gonna enter his last year next season

What would have had him do at that point though? His bullpen has always been steady and the offense was limited. The pen failed us this year. There was not a lot of coaching that can change what your bullpen is. Maybe put someone else out there but he was the one seeing what each guy can do everyday. I may have not run Mitchell out there so much but if I was seeing these guys everyday I might have decided he is the best we got. Not really a whole lot to choose from.

Offensively you can change up some approaches, work to contact and such but during the season they are what they are for this season for the most part.

[msstate7]

What would have had him do at that point though? His bullpen has always been steady and the offense was limited. The pen failed us this year. There was not a lot of coaching that can change what your bullpen is. Maybe put someone else out there but he was the one seeing what each guy can do everyday. I may have not run Mitchell out there so much but if I was seeing these guys everyday I might have decided he is the best we got. Not really a whole lot to choose from.

Offensively you can change up some approaches, work to contact and such but during the season they are what they are for this season for the most part.

The pen was just a disaster. Not much you could've done to fix it during the season. Although, I thought we could've tried a few different things like try brown and laster out of pen or tried fitts as a starter. Neither would've probably worked, but I think they were worth a try.

We were around middle of the pack in BA. Why not hit and run or just swing away when we got a runner on first with 0 outs? Playing for 1 run with our pitching staff was just idiotic imo

What would you say about fredi tonight if Peterson got a leadoff hit and fredi bunted him to 2nd in the 1st inning with our bullpen?

[BiscuitEater]

Since most people voted to bring Cohen back but with staff changes required (hitting coach).

We need a hitting coach .. and NEW BATS!**

[Really Clark?]

The pen was just a disaster. Not much you could've done to fix it during the season. Although, I thought we could've tried a few different things like try brown and laster out of pen or tried fitts as a starter. Neither would've probably worked, but I think they were worth a try.

We were around middle of the pack in BA. Why not hit and run or just swing away when we got a runner on first with 0 outs? Playing for 1 run with our pitching staff was just idiotic imo

What would you say about fredi tonight if Peterson got a leadoff hit and fredi bunted him to 2nd in the 1st inning with our bullpen?

I agree with that and said you could change offensive approach and make tweaks. I don't know why you think I agree with his approach. I have never defended that really except I don't mind reasonable situational bunting. But fundamentally and the type of hitters you have, not a whole you can do during the season in changing the actual hitter.

I actually love hit and run, when done correctly. And by the end of the year, when so many were debating swinging away on 2-0 counts, I don't have a problem with being aggressive at all. Actually think offensively just a simple aggressive mindset might have changed some things. But with our season I would not be waiting for the other team to beat themselves. Go after them and win the game.

[CadaverDawg]

What would have had him do at that point though?

How about NOT play for one run so much when one run clearly means nothing with our bullpen? It isn't rocket science, but Cohen makes us think it is. When your bullpen sucks, you have to maximize your offensive potential. You can't just say "oh well, we're just going to have to suck because I'm playing for 4-5 runs a game whether our pitching can hold a team to <5 or not".

But the real question is, why would you EVER want to limit your offensive potential? Why wouldn't you always try to score as many runs as possible? When you bunt a guy with 0 outs from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd (which should NEVER happen yet we do it ALL THE TIME), you are all but guaranteeing that IF you score, it will only be 1 run. So let's say we get the leadoff man on base 5 out of 9 innings (which is high), and are 100% successful in sacrificing and then driving them in (which is damn near impossible)...we ONLY SCORE 5 RUNS IN THE GAME, unless we string together 1 and 2 out rally's somewhere.

Why not let our guys hit for 3 reasons...
1. It maximizes run potential
2. We have a shitty pen and need runs
3. We aren't going to go far with a shitty pen, so might as well let the hitters get valuable cuts in this year so they can be better next year. Getting them bunt work in during losses is going to help us zero next season.

That's a few things he could do to account for a shitty pen. Along with not getting guys thrown out on the bases regularly, and developing some continuity both in the batting order and on the field.

[Really Clark?]

How about NOT play for one run so much when one run clearly means nothing with our bullpen? It isn't rocket science, but Cohen makes us think it is. When your bullpen sucks, you have to maximize your offensive potential. You can't just say "oh well, we're just going to have to suck because I'm playing for 4-5 runs a game whether our pitching can hold a team to <5 or not".

But the real question is, why would you EVER want to limit your offensive potential? Why wouldn't you always try to score as many runs as possible? When you bunt a guy with 0 outs from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd (which should NEVER happen yet we do it ALL THE TIME), you are all but guaranteeing that IF you score, it will only be 1 run. So let's say we get the leadoff man on base 5 out of 9 innings (which is high), and are 100% successful in sacrificing and then driving them in (which is damn near impossible)...we ONLY SCORE 5 RUNS IN THE GAME, unless we string together 1 and 2 out rally's somewhere.

Why not let our guys hit for 3 reasons...
1. It maximizes run potential
2. We have a shitty pen and need runs
3. We aren't going to go far with a shitty pen, so might as well let the hitters get valuable cuts in this year so they can be better next year. Getting them bunt work in during losses is going to help us zero next season.

That's a few things he could do to account for a shitty pen. Along with not getting guys thrown out on the bases regularly, and developing some continuity both in the batting order and on the field.

I understand what you are saying but it's not that simple with a team built for that scernio. And by the end of the year he had adjusted the approach some but you are not going to be able to change what your hitters are. And let's not forget all of our strategiest on here complained about his strategy but then when the games were tight, especially against LSU, oh no can't have guys swing away then. I agreed with opening it up but you have to understand your hitters are still what they are at this point. Now during the offseason is when you can revamp the hitter some. But you can't mid season.

[CadaverDawg]

I understand what you are saying but it's not that simple with a team built for that scernio. And by the end of the year he had adjusted the approach some but you are not going to be able to change what your hitters are. And let's not forget all of our strategiest on here complained about his strategy but then when the games were tight, especially against LSU, oh no can't have guys swing away then. I agreed with opening it up but you have to understand your hitters are still what they are at this point. Now during the offseason is when you can revamp the hitter some. But you can't mid season.

I see where you're coming from, but...

They're SEC players...if they can't just go up there and hit without having to sac bunt, hit and run, slash, etc....we have an even bigger problem than I thought. And yes, Cohen did finally get away from it a little, but only once the season was out of hand and we basically had no choice because we were trailing so much. I'm afraid if you go back to giving him leads, he goes right back to playing for one run. That has to stop, and I know we've all beaten it to death..but it may end up being his undoing.

You can't handcuff your offense as a strategy and just expect Butch to field a lock down staff every season to bail you out.

[Really Clark?]

I see where you're coming from, but...

They're SEC players...if they can't just go up there and hit without having to sac bunt, hit and run, slash, etc....we have an even bigger problem than I thought. And yes, Cohen did finally get away from it a little, but only once the season was out of hand and we basically had no choice because we were trailing so much. I'm afraid if you go back to giving him leads, he goes right back to playing for one run. That has to stop, and I know we've all beaten it to death..but it may end up being his undoing.

You can't handcuff your offense as a strategy and just expect Butch to field a lock down staff every season to bail you out.

I don't disagree with you on most of that. And I honestly believe if he had turned it loose sooner it would have made a difference for most of the guys. Some guys however would have struggled. When you spend an offseason working based off a certain philosphy, then it is hard for some to flip that switch. Especially with what has been recruited. Now if you want to harp on his recruiting and offseason program...probably that is where some of the issues are. But during the season you can't just turn some of these guys into great sit back contact guys when they have worked all offseason as get out of box punch the ball in play types. Some can adjust but against SEC pitching there is a certain amount of tweaking you can do midseason and not have it really hurt some of the hitters. The opposition is really good too and if the hitters are out of time and not fluid....you might as well pull them for someone else or you just have to fight through it.