Alot of our baseball fans need to realize its not 1995 anymore

[Coach34]

2 for 16. Thats how many CWS appearances Miss State has in the last 16 years. 2. Two. Dos.

I keep seeing our fans saying we are a top 10 program- and it's simply not true anymore. The 1990's ended and so did our standing as a top tier baseball school. The lack of scholarships available hurts both us and Mississippi. Bunko has made them very relevant finally and they still only have 1 CWS appearance. It's harder to win at Miss State now in baseball than it is at half the other SEC schools.

We have had losing SEC records in 8 of the last 16 years. That's not a top 10 baseball school.
We have no NC in our history- thats not a top 10 baseball school
We only have 7 CWS appearances the last 35 years- thats not a top 10 baseball school.

All this talk of firing Cohen for 1 down season after a really good 3 year run is ridiculous. College baseball has evolved alot since the 1990's and we havent quite recovered yet.

Should we strive to be there? Absolutely
Is our fan support top 10? Absolutely
Are our facilities top 10? No- but will be in 2 years

Some of ya'll need a dose of reality

[BeardoMSU]

2 for 16. Thats how many CWS appearances Miss State has in the last 16 years. 2. Two. Dos.

I keep seeing our fans saying we are a top 10 program- and it's simply not true anymore. The 1990's ended and so did our standing as a top tier baseball school. The lack of scholarships available hurts both us and Mississippi. Bunko has made them very relevant finally and they still only have 1 CWS appearance. It's harder to win at Miss State now in baseball than it is at half the other SEC schools.

We have had losing SEC records in 8 of the last 16 years. That's not a top 10 baseball school.
We have no NC in our history- thats not a top 10 baseball school
We only have 7 CWS appearances the last 35 years- thats not a top 10 baseball school.

All this talk of firing Cohen for 1 down season after a really good 3 year run is ridiculous. College baseball has evolved alot since the 1990's and we havent quite recovered yet.

Should we strive to be there? Absolutely
Is our fan support top 10? Absolutely
Are our facilities top 10? No- but will be in 2 years

Some of ya'll need a dose of reality

Well said, Coach.

[Dawg61]

2 for 16. Thats how many CWS appearances Miss State has in the last 16 years. 2. Two. Dos.

I keep seeing our fans saying we are a top 10 program- and it's simply not true anymore. The 1990's ended and so did our standing as a top tier baseball school. The lack of scholarships available hurts both us and Mississippi. Bunko has made them very relevant finally and they still only have 1 CWS appearance. It's harder to win at Miss State now in baseball than it is at half the other SEC schools.

We have had losing SEC records in 8 of the last 16 years. That's not a top 10 baseball school.
We have no NC in our history- thats not a top 10 baseball school
We only have 7 CWS appearances the last 35 years- thats not a top 10 baseball school.

All this talk of firing Cohen for 1 down season after a really good 3 year run is ridiculous. College baseball has evolved alot since the 1990's and we havent quite recovered yet.

Should we strive to be there? Absolutely
Is our fan support top 10? Absolutely
Are our facilities top 10? No- but will be in 2 years

Some of ya'll need a dose of reality

I don't enjoy watching Cohen's style of baseball, his philosophy and what he demands his players do in the batters box. No doubt we'll suck next year and it'll be Cohen's last.

[confucius say]

I don't enjoy watching Cohen's style of baseball, his philosophy and what he demands his players do in the batters box. No doubt we'll suck next year and it'll be Cohen's last.

Wanna bet?

[Liverpooldawg]

2 for 16. Thats how many CWS appearances Miss State has in the last 16 years. 2. Two. Dos.

I keep seeing our fans saying we are a top 10 program- and it's simply not true anymore. The 1990's ended and so did our standing as a top tier baseball school. The lack of scholarships available hurts both us and Mississippi. Bunko has made them very relevant finally and they still only have 1 CWS appearance. It's harder to win at Miss State now in baseball than it is at half the other SEC schools.

We have had losing SEC records in 8 of the last 16 years. That's not a top 10 baseball school.
We have no NC in our history- thats not a top 10 baseball school
We only have 7 CWS appearances the last 35 years- thats not a top 10 baseball school.

All this talk of firing Cohen for 1 down season after a really good 3 year run is ridiculous. College baseball has evolved alot since the 1990's and we havent quite recovered yet.

Should we strive to be there? Absolutely
Is our fan support top 10? Absolutely
Are our facilities top 10? No- but will be in 2 years

Some of ya'll need a dose of reality

Spot on.

[confucius say]

2 for 16. Thats how many CWS appearances Miss State has in the last 16 years. 2. Two. Dos.

I keep seeing our fans saying we are a top 10 program- and it's simply not true anymore. The 1990's ended and so did our standing as a top tier baseball school. The lack of scholarships available hurts both us and Mississippi. Bunko has made them very relevant finally and they still only have 1 CWS appearance. It's harder to win at Miss State now in baseball than it is at half the other SEC schools.

We have had losing SEC records in 8 of the last 16 years. That's not a top 10 baseball school.
We have no NC in our history- thats not a top 10 baseball school
We only have 7 CWS appearances the last 35 years- thats not a top 10 baseball school.

All this talk of firing Cohen for 1 down season after a really good 3 year run is ridiculous. College baseball has evolved alot since the 1990's and we havent quite recovered yet.

Should we strive to be there? Absolutely
Is our fan support top 10? Absolutely
Are our facilities top 10? No- but will be in 2 years

Some of ya'll need a dose of reality

I don't disagree totally. Especially with the fact that it's harder for mississippi schools to win in baseball than la, tenn, ga, and tex (lotteries and scholarship programs). But, you can also say we've been to two, 2, dos, cws in last 8 years, as opposed to 16 years, and four in last 17 years. We are still a top 15-20 program.

[Dawg61]

Wanna bet?

You gonna get the stubborn bastard to change his beliefs?

[confucius say]

You gonna get the stubborn bastard to change his beliefs?

Nope. But I'll take the bet that next year will not be his last, unless he chooses for it to be. We will also not suck next year, and by that I mean we will make a regional.

[shoeless joe]

You gonna get the stubborn bastard to change his beliefs?

When he was at UK they played in a banbox and he coached that way. His "belief" is/was based on the bats, balls, home stadium, and CWS stadium.

[CadaverDawg]

I don't think we're a top 10 program, and I don't want to fire Cohen, but I do think we SHOULD be a Top 15-20 program and we SHOULD not have so many years of sub .500 SEC baseball. To put it simply, with our facilities (& soon to be facilities), our fan support, our history, our recruiting ability, and our dedication to baseball....we should be getting more out of our baseball program on a year in/year out basis. Yes, we have the CWS run in 13, and a few Regional appearances, but we should be in the hosting discussion way more than we are and have been over the last 10-15+ years IMO.

I get the scholly issues, and I know that's tough...but it's not insurmountable. And if it is, we either need to put all resources towards fighting it, or quit pumping money into a losing battle.

[AROB44]

Hearing some MSU fans talk about our baseball program is similar to hearing OM talk about their football program. Both are based on ancient history. 1985 was 30 years ago! I loved it then but it is history.

[confucius say]

Hearing some MSU fans talk about our baseball program is similar to hearing OM talk about their football program. Both are based on ancient history. 1985 was 30 years ago! I loved it then but it is history.

Our baseball program the last twenty years had been far superior to their football program the last twenty years.

[bulldogcountry1]

I think most of the people who actually believe we are a top 10 program are really just general MSU fans who can easily overlook the SEC mediocrity amidst the shininess of the occasional post-season hot streak, the history of the program, and the attention that DNF gets.

Most true MSU baseball fans can see we aren't one of the big boys anymore. Getting pounded by LSU and UM every year should be a good indication. I've hated Cohen's style since he got here. It's quite boring to watch, and I have been to many games. But, when he started winning, I was able to deal with it, though I still didn't like it. The game took a big turn this year, and we were behind the curve.

Can Cohen adjust? Yes
Will he? I have doubts

He said after Thursday's game that he might not ever forget that one. Well, I hope that is just what he needs to make the right changes going forward.

[BeardoMSU]

Our baseball program the last twenty years had been far superior to their football program the last twenty years.

True, but our fans still talk about our baseball "tradition" like we've got multiple natty's and a bunch of recent nation seeds.

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

I agree with C34 that our fan base need to lose their illusions of grandeur. But I also agree with Dawg61 that Cohen's hitting philosophy is an unsuccessful one, and is boring as hell to watch. I don't understand the logic in saying that because we have a big park we should recruit small guys that can slap the ball around the field and run.

[CadaverDawg]

I consider our fan support, post season appearances, and commitment to baseball to also be a part of "history" and "tradition". Not just Titles.

[Maroonthirteen]

Yep. All that.....also, the baseball program has the same Achilles heel that the other MSU athletics programs have.... Recruiting talent from the smallest population base in the southeast to compete in the premier conference in all the land.

[maroonmania]

No, we aren't Top 10 and its much harder to win at MSU now than it was in the Polk I era. And we weren't really even nationally elite even in Polk's day at least not anything like a Miami, Texas, Southern Cal, CS-Fullerton etc. were back in the day. Or even like LSU or South Carolina have been more recently. We averaged a CWS about every 5 years back in the day and rarely won more than one game once we got there. I agree that a lot of MSU fans believe that since we have Top 10 fan support in the nation we should get a Top 10 baseball program, but it hasn't worked that way.

[Coach34]

I'm not saying Cohen is the greatest or shouldn't be criticized- and should be a little on the hotseat. But after 4 straight NCAA's and a NC appearance- he gets a little rope to turn it around. Whether you think he will or not is irrelevant- he deserves another season

[confucius say]

I'm not saying Cohen is the greatest or shouldn't be criticized- and should be a little on the hotseat. But after 4 straight NCAA's and a NC appearance- he gets a little rope to turn it around. Whether you think he will or not is irrelevant- he deserves another season

Absolutely.

[Liverpooldawg]

In all honesty we have never been a Top 10 program on the field. We had years where we were but not to the point where you could call us a Top 10 program. Our fan support has been Top 10 and probably still is. Our faculties used to be and will be again soon. The product on the field, not really.

[Out of Bounds]

I don't enjoy watching Cohen's style of baseball, his philosophy and what he demands his players do in the batters box. No doubt we'll suck next year and it'll be Cohen's last.

Cohen isn't going anywhere and he's about as close to the hotseat as I am to starting for the NY Yankees this weekend.

[BulldogBear]

I don't think we're a top 10 program, and I don't want to fire Cohen, but I do think we SHOULD be a Top 15-20 program and we SHOULD not have so many years of sub .500 SEC baseball. To put it simply, with our facilities (& soon to be facilities), our fan support, our history, our recruiting ability, and our dedication to baseball....we should be getting more out of our baseball program on a year in/year out basis. Yes, we have the CWS run in 13, and a few Regional appearances, but we should be in the hosting discussion way more than we are and have been over the last 10-15+ years IMO.

I get the scholly issues, and I know that's tough...but it's not insurmountable. And if it is, we either need to put all resources towards fighting it, or quit pumping money into a losing battle.

+1


Here's a question...

Have we EVER been a national seed since the concept began?

[Homedawg]

+1


Here's a question...

Have we EVER been a national seed since the concept began?
Nope.

[BulldogBear]

Nope.



Didn't think so. There's just something inherently wrong with that, even with the OP perspective. Not even once? C'mon

[Homedawg]

in reality, if they were doing national seeds in the "good ole days", the only time we would have ever been a national seed would have been in 85 and 89. That's it. Twice. Ever.

[HancockCountyDog]

I have to admit, reading this thread is depressing. Im not saying anyone is wrong, just depressing;

[Dawg61]

Cohen isn't going anywhere and he's about as close to the hotseat as I am to starting for the NY Yankees this weekend.

Keep telling yourself that. It's not that he's losing after being Nat Runner Up that's putting him on the hot seat. It's how he's losing. If we had good damage hitters and lost he'd be ok for awhile. If we scored a lot and he lost he'd be ok for awhile. If he had power arms and still lost he'd be ok for awhile. But he has none of that and worst of all he's teaching Little League strategy in the SEC. Seriously. It's Little League. Walk, bunt, hit for contact never power. That's what is taught to the 12 year olds in Everytown, USA. Then on top of all that he has this never ending urge to influence every game to the tune of 82 consecutive different lineups and all the Cohenball calls he makes every game. Cohen has worn thin and he's done it in record fashion. If Cohen gets fired its only because he did it to himself. MSU baseball is much much bigger than Cohen. It's a highly coveted position to be the MSU HC. If he insists on teaching little league ball that's fine. He just needs to do it in little league not SEC baseball.

[Todd4State]

A big thing that holds us back is our very own fans. Especially the Daryl Berryhill types that want to continue living the 80's- and think the way to do that is by trying to keep as many things the same as they were in the 1980's.

Case in point- you know what else happened approximately 16 years ago? We brought Ron Polk back. That move along set us back ten years. I know LT had a lot to do with it, but if our big baseball fans wanted to, they could have very easily prevented that from happening.

And then seven years after that we bring in Cohen- and some of our vocal fans were more worried about him cussing in the dugout and cutting players than anything else. Those fans demand a soft team- and sure enough Cohen has softened up and brought in some soft players- and you see the result. You also see the result of bringing in hard nosed players like Graveman, Frazier, Renfroe, Pirtle too. Heck, think about Clark, Palmeiro, Brantley, etc. They weren't soft either. And again you see the result.

And here we are now- those SAME people don't want to build the best stadium in college baseball because they're afraid that they may not have as good of a seat or that they are going to have to pay more or that the LFL might change and they might not like it. At any other place, everyone would be pumped. And the funny thing is they are probably going to have a lot better seats than they have currently- although I'm sure they'll bitch about it anyway.

Winning in the SEC today is no different than it is at any other time in baseball history. You need players that are driven and incredibly competitive. That documentary about Clark and Palmeiro pointed that out about how competitive they were as players and how they hated to lose. That's what we have to have every year if we are going to win championships. If we bring in players that are highly competitive and driven, we will win at a high level. If we have soft players, we're not going to be as good. That's also been proven time and time again.

You look at MLB right now, and I guarantee you that on a typical 25 man roster you have probably 20-22 players on average that are extremely driven to succeed. And the other 2-3 are just freak show athletes like Jeff Francouer that are able to be there because they have too much talent to not be. And even in his case, he's not getting the most out of himself because he isn't driven like a Mike Trout is.

We have too many fans that want to see a bunch of choir boys out there and meddle too much where they shouldn't at the expense of the program.

[confucius say]

Keep telling yourself that. It's not that he's losing after being Nat Runner Up that's putting him on the hot seat. It's how he's losing. If we had good damage hitters and lost he'd be ok for awhile. If we scored a lot and he lost he'd be ok for awhile. If he had power arms and still lost he'd be ok for awhile. But he has none of that and worst of all he's teaching Little League strategy in the SEC. Seriously. It's Little League. Walk, bunt, hit for contact never power. That's what is taught to the 12 year olds in Everytown, USA. Then on top of all that he has this never ending urge to influence every game to the tune of 82 consecutive different lineups and all the Cohenball calls he makes every game. Cohen has worn thin and he's done it in record fashion. If Cohen gets fired its only because he did it to himself. MSU baseball is much much bigger than Cohen. It's a highly coveted position to be the MSU HC. If he insists on teaching little league ball that's fine. He just needs to do it in little league not SEC baseball.

It's no secret his formula is pitching and defense. Sorry you don't like that. He has also said numerous times this season that we are lacking power arms (swing and miss guys) out of the pen and gap hitters. He is well aware of the problem and it is being addressed. You think he would not like to have 4 hunter renfroes? Please. The main reason we bunted more than normal early is because our gap guys were either hurt (Collins) or just not producing (hump, rooker, rea, Reynolds). Now that we are healthy and starting to swing it better as a whole, the bunting has gone down.

We will be back rolling and the far coinz crew will find smn else about which to complain until Cohen eventually becomes the new stanz around here and we have a divided fan base. Every program goes through coach fatigue, and sometimes it is warranted and sometimes not. This is a not. If I'm wrong, I'll be first to admit.

[IMissJack]

Yep. All that.....also, the baseball program has the same Achilles heel that the other MSU athletics programs have.... Recruiting talent from the smallest population base in the southeast to compete in the premier conference in all the land.

Besides scholarships as Coach mentions, this is the major problem. There is not a big base of organized baseball from age 4 to 18 like there are in most suburban metro areas. Even in our best years, most of the superstar players were not from MS.

[Todd4State]

Keep telling yourself that. It's not that he's losing after being Nat Runner Up that's putting him on the hot seat. It's how he's losing. If we had good damage hitters and lost he'd be ok for awhile. If we scored a lot and he lost he'd be ok for awhile. If he had power arms and still lost he'd be ok for awhile. But he has none of that and worst of all he's teaching Little League strategy in the SEC. Seriously. It's Little League. Walk, bunt, hit for contact never power. That's what is taught to the 12 year olds in Everytown, USA. Then on top of all that he has this never ending urge to influence every game to the tune of 82 consecutive different lineups and all the Cohenball calls he makes every game. Cohen has worn thin and he's done it in record fashion. If Cohen gets fired its only because he did it to himself. MSU baseball is much much bigger than Cohen. It's a highly coveted position to be the MSU HC. If he insists on teaching little league ball that's fine. He just needs to do it in little league not SEC baseball.

And what do you expect hitters like Jake Vickerson, Jacob Robson, Seth Heck, and Cody Brown to do other than hit singles and bunt? Do you really think that Cohen, Rudy Jaramillo, Charlie Lau, Clark, or Palmeiro could make them into power hitters? That would be like Astros fans expecting Jose Altuve to hit 30 home runs because their hitting coach had a magic wand or something. Yet another example of how our fans don't understand the game.

Cohen built us for the baseball culture at the time- and it resulted in two SR's, and a CWS appearance making it to the finals. And now he is recruiting more power hitters like Rooker, Cole Gordon, Nate Lowe, and hopefully Riley and Pickett make it to adjust for the current era.

I'm pretty sure Cohen gets it. It's pretty much public knowledge that Cohen wanted the ball change to be delayed to give us a chance to adjust our roster. If he was deadest on small ball, I'm pretty sure that would have never come out.

[Todd4State]

It's no secret his formula is pitching and defense. Sorry you don't like that. He has also said numerous times this season that we are lacking power arms (swing and miss guys) out of the pen and gap hitters. He is well aware of the problem and it is being addressed. You think he would not like to have 4 hunter renfroes? Please. The main reason we bunted more than normal early is because our gap guys were either hurt (Collins) or just not producing (hump, rooker, rea, Reynolds). Now that we are healthy and starting to swing it better as a whole, the bunting has gone down.

We will be back rolling and the far coinz crew will find smn else about which to complain until Cohen eventually becomes the new stanz around here and we have a divided fan base. Every program goes through coach fatigue, and sometimes it is warranted and sometimes not. This is a not. If I'm wrong, I'll be first to admit.

THANK YOU.

Pitching and defense win championships in baseball. At every level. If we get that squared away, we will be good every year. And this year our pitching has been way down- and really has been the difference between this year and last year. Or really any of Cohen's other four years the last five.

The reality is offense is the least important major component of the game. The reason is because if the other team has a really good ace, that pitcher can shut down even an all-star lineup. But if you have a bad pitcher, he won't be able to stop a bad offensive team.

Now, I'm not saying that offense is unimportant. But I've seen some bad offensive teams win championships. I haven't seen a team that has bad pitching win one yet.

[Todd4State]

Besides scholarships as Coach mentions, this is the major problem. There is not a big base of organized baseball from age 4 to 18 like there are in most suburban metro areas. Even in our best years, most of the superstar players were not from MS.

We do need the NCAA to help us out with some rules a little bit. Almost every bit of legislation that they have come out with has hurt us in baseball.

[IMissJack]

We do need the NCAA to help us out with some rules a little bit. Almost every bit of legislation that they have come out with has hurt us in baseball.

The NCAA has benefitted private colleges and those that are very high academic schools, because they can offer scholarships others can't. See Vandy.

[turkish]

If we aren't a top 10 program then we won't be building a top 5 stadium.

[confucius say]

We do need the NCAA to help us out with some rules a little bit. Almost every bit of legislation that they have come out with has hurt us in baseball.

Is there any chance our own legislature could help out?? I'm not sure how it works, but apparently la, ga, tex, etc... have programs/laws in place where kids with a certain gpa go free or smn. Think it's called taps in Louisiana. Funded by lotteries or smn? If anybody knows, I would appreciate some insight. Not just in la, but other states as well.

[Todd4State]

Is there any chance our own legislature could help out?? I'm not sure how it works, but apparently la, ga, tex, etc... have programs/laws in place where kids with a certain gpa go free or smn. Think it's called taps in Louisiana. Funded by lotteries or smn? If anybody knows, I would appreciate some insight. Not just in la, but other states as well.

I think Keenum can help us out more than the government. All we have to do is hand out "leadership scholarships" to fill in the gap of full tuition. It's not any more sketchy than Vandy's "hardship waivers".


It's Tops in Louisiana- and the kicker there is if you go to Tulane you get the same amount that you would if you went to LSU. So, you would still owe Tulane like 20K even after Tops. That's why they aren't Vanderbilt.

There was actually talk about Louisiana doing away with TOPS- but I think that got voted down.

[HSVDawg]

Good post. One serious question though....does anyone actually want Cohen fired immediately? I know many have vented frustration but I would be very surprised if anyone actually wanted him out the door tomorrow after allowing their emotions to subside. Even the most ardent Cohen antagonists seem to think he deserves a chance to redeem himself next year even if they don't think he'll do it. If anyone has said Cohen should be fired at the end of the year, please post their names so that they may be ridiculed accordingly.

[turkish]

TOPS is tuition, fees, plus $400 if you have a 3.0 and 23 ACT. MTAG ain't close is it?

[Dawg61]

And what do you expect hitters like Jake Vickerson, Jacob Robson, Seth Heck, and Cody Brown to do other than hit singles and bunt? Do you really think that Cohen, Rudy Jaramillo, Charlie Lau, Clark, or Palmeiro could make them into power hitters? That would be like Astros fans expecting Jose Altuve to hit 30 home runs because their hitting coach had a magic wand or something. Yet another example of how our fans don't understand the game.

Cohen built us for the baseball culture at the time- and it resulted in two SR's, and a CWS appearance making it to the finals. And now he is recruiting more power hitters like Rooker, Cole Gordon, Nate Lowe, and hopefully Riley and Pickett make it to adjust for the current era.

I'm pretty sure Cohen gets it. It's pretty much public knowledge that Cohen wanted the ball change to be delayed to give us a chance to adjust our roster. If he was deadest on small ball, I'm pretty sure that would have never come out.

Altuve is on pace for 19 HR and 50 2bs. JS. You named four players. Cohen starts every fall with 35-40 players. Quit making excuses for him. He's been atrocious this year. We must and will DEMAND MORE from our HC for baseball. Ask Buck Showalter and Jeff Brantley what they think of Cohen's performance this year.

[Dawg61]

Good post. One serious question though....does anyone actually want Cohen fired immediately? I know many have vented frustration but I would be very surprised if anyone actually wanted him out the door tomorrow after allowing their emotions to subside. Even the most ardent Cohen antagonists seem to think he deserves a chance to redeem himself next year even if they don't think he'll do it. If anyone has said Cohen should be fired at the end of the year, please post their names so that they may be ridiculed accordingly.


Cohen gets next year for me but to want him back I want to see two things happen. 1. A massive infusion of POWER into both the pitching and offense and 2. Complete elimination of the little league Cohenball strategy.

MSU isn't the little guy in baseball. I never ever want to see us play like the little guy again. Cohen has more resources than anyone else. Go get the big boy studs that all the other players are scared of. I don't care if he's gotta setup a recruiting base in Cuba. Go get us some nasty mother****ers!!

[confucius say]

Good post. One serious question though....does anyone actually want Cohen fired immediately? I know many have vented frustration but I would be very surprised if anyone actually wanted him out the door tomorrow after allowing their emotions to subside. Even the most ardent Cohen antagonists seem to think he deserves a chance to redeem himself next year even if they don't think he'll do it. If anyone has said Cohen should be fired at the end of the year, please post their names so that they may be ridiculed accordingly.

Dawg61. Rouge dawg. War machine dawg. Maybe Smitty. Anybody else? If I'm wrong, please correct me.

[Todd4State]

Altuve is on pace for 19 HR and 50 2bs. JS. You named four players. Cohen starts every fall with 35-40 players. Quit making excuses for him. He's been atrocious this year. We must and will DEMAND MORE from our HC for baseball. Ask Buck Showalter and Jeff Brantley what they think of Cohen's performance this year.

I didn't make any excuses for him. What's your excuse for being an idiot?

You do realize that of our 35-40 players about 20 our pitchers? Right? I could have added Spruill, Michael Smith, Gridley, Reynolds, Lovelady, Walker, and etc. Probably could have added that Collins was hurt and that Rooker and Gordon are freshmen- but that would be making excuses which I chose not to do.

I don't think anybody is happy about our teams performance right now, but the point remains that expecting him to turn singles hitters into power hitters is unrealistic by any stretch of the imagination. I guarantee you that Showalter and Brantley would agree with me on that. It's also silly to not expect Cohen to change when you look at the players that we are recruiting plus his comments on the matter.

But go ahead and vent and make yourself look like an idiot.

[Dawg61]

Dawg61. Rouge dawg. War machine dawg. Maybe Smitty. Anybody else? If I'm wrong, please correct me.

You're wrong. Cohen gets one more year for me but I seriously doubt he can stop his need to meddle into everything and micromanage.

[War Machine Dawg]

I don't think we're a top 10 program, and I don't want to fire Cohen, but I do think we SHOULD be a Top 15-20 program and we SHOULD not have so many years of sub .500 SEC baseball. To put it simply, with our facilities (& soon to be facilities), our fan support, our history, our recruiting ability, and our dedication to baseball....we should be getting more out of our baseball program on a year in/year out basis. Yes, we have the CWS run in 13, and a few Regional appearances, but we should be in the hosting discussion way more than we are and have been over the last 10-15+ years IMO.

I get the scholly issues, and I know that's tough...but it's not insurmountable. And if it is, we either need to put all resources towards fighting it, or quit pumping money into a losing battle.

http://i.imgur.com/cuCPKY3.gif

[Dawg61]

I didn't make any excuses for him. What's your excuse for being an idiot?

You do realize that of our 35-40 players about 20 our pitchers? Right? I could have added Spruill, Michael Smith, Gridley, Reynolds, Lovelady, Walker, and etc. Probably could have added that Collins was hurt and that Rooker and Gordon are freshmen- but that would be making excuses which I chose not to do.

I don't think anybody is happy about our teams performance right now, but the point remains that expecting him to turn singles hitters into power hitters is unrealistic by any stretch of the imagination. I guarantee you that Showalter and Brantley would agree with me on that. It's also silly to not expect Cohen to change when you look at the players that we are recruiting plus his comments on the matter.

But go ahead and vent and make yourself look like an idiot.

We suck burnt assholes in baseball Todd. I'm not going to sugarcoat it for you and I'm not going to give Cohen passes for entire seasons. It's beyond retarded to stock your lineup full of slap hitters and attempt to bunt and walk your way to Omaha. Was Cohen so butthurt he lost to UCLA that he lost his damn mind for an entire recruiting cycle and full season of play? "Just wait till next year" is a phrase that should never be used to describe MSU baseball. Win now or step aside.

[confucius say]

You're wrong. Cohen gets one more year for me but I seriously doubt he can stop his need to meddle into everything and micromanage.

Alright!! Dawg61 supports bringing Cohen back. Progress I tell ya. I'm going to have you fully on the bandwagon by this time next year. Just be patient with me.

[Dawg61]

Alright!! Dawg61 supports bringing Cohen back. Progress I tell ya. I'm going to have you fully on the bandwagon by this time next year. Just be patient with me.

Haha take notes Todd. This is a better way to disagree with posters instead of kicking your doggie.

[War Machine Dawg]

Dawg61. Rouge dawg. War machine dawg. Maybe Smitty. Anybody else? If I'm wrong, please correct me.

Uhhhh.....no. I may have said it wouldn't hurt my feeling if he were gone after this season immediately following the Governor's Cup debacle. But I've also said multiple times I know he will, and SHOULD, get next season to fix it. Do I think he will be able to fix it? Different story. But he's certainly earned the right to get one more season to attempt it.

[Todd4State]

We suck burnt assholes in baseball Todd. I'm not going to sugarcoat it for you and I'm not going to give Cohen passes for entire seasons. It's beyond retarded to stock your lineup full of slap hitters and attempt to bunt and walk your way to Omaha. Was Cohen so butthurt he lost to UCLA that he lost his damn mind for an entire recruiting cycle and full season of play? "Just wait till next year" is a phrase that should never be used to describe MSU baseball. Win now or step aside.

We bunted and walked our way to the CWS in 2013 with the old baseball- but please tell me that is "beyond retarded" and how Cohen won't adjust to the games condition. And according to you Cohen should be on the hot seat for not having a crystal ball and realizing that the NCAA was going to change the baseball in 2015 and thus not even having an opportunity to adjust his team? And this despite the fact that we are literally a good Ross Mitchell away from being back in a regional in spite of the offense in a season where we have eight losses so far where we have scored five runs or more? Just unacceptable.**

Do us all a favor and stop posting about baseball and let the people that actually have a clue about what is going on discuss it.

[War Machine Dawg]

We suck burnt assholes in baseball Todd. I'm not going to sugarcoat it for you and I'm not going to give Cohen passes for entire seasons. It's beyond retarded to stock your lineup full of slap hitters and attempt to bunt and walk your way to Omaha. Was Cohen so butthurt he lost to UCLA that he lost his damn mind for an entire recruiting cycle and full season of play? "Just wait till next year" is a phrase that should never be used to describe MSU baseball. Win now or step aside.

I think this is the disconnect that Todd misses, intentionally or not, when we discuss the offense. It's not that we have 2-3 slap hitters. It's that we have a roster FULL of slap hitters with 2-3 power hitters thrown in. Having so many slap hitters is the issue. When your entire hitting bench outside about 4 players are considered slap hitters by everyone with a pair of eyeballs and a brain, that's a problem. And there is no short term fix for that type of problem. Same for our lack of power arms.

[Todd4State]

Haha take notes Todd. This is a better way to disagree with posters instead of kicking your doggie.

Or even better yet- you could just not post stupid thoughts. But that would be just like someone expecting Jake Vickerson to turn into a power hitter.

[confucius say]

Uhhhh.....no. I may have said it wouldn't hurt my feeling if he were gone after this season immediately following the Governor's Cup debacle. But I've also said multiple times I know he will, and SHOULD, get next season to fix it. Do I think he will be able to fix it? Different story. But he's certainly earned the right to get one more season to attempt it.

Boom!! 2 for 2. Where you at rougedawg

[Dawg61]

Do us all a favor and stop posting about baseball and let the people that actually have a clue about what is going on discuss it.

Why are you speaking for everyone when really you're just speaking for yourself. Again I DEMAND MSU baseball be amongst the LSU's and Vandy's in baseball not eating algae with the bottom feeding Tennessee's. Memphis baseball is better than MSU. That's pathetic and unacceptable dude.

[Todd4State]

I think this is the disconnect that Todd misses, intentionally or not, when we discuss the offense. It's not that we have 2-3 slap hitters. It's that we have a roster FULL of slap hitters with 2-3 power hitters thrown in. Having so many slap hitters is the issue. When your entire hitting bench outside about 4 players are considered slap hitters by everyone with a pair of eyeballs and a brain, that's a problem. And there is no short term fix for that type of problem. Same for our lack of power arms.

I understand that we have a lineup full of singles hitters. For Heaven's sakes- I've been saying that we shouldn't expect our SINGLES hitters to be power hitters because that's what we want them to be, and then you're telling me that I don't seem to realize that our offense is 7-8 singles hitters? I WANT us to have 4-5 power hitters and 4-5 speed guys. Let's not pretend like we don't have posters on here that don't say things about how "this is what Cohen wants" or "all we have to do to hit with more power is change our hitting mechanics" though.

And there is a short term fix- it's called recruiting.

[Todd4State]

Why are you speaking for everyone when really you're just speaking for yourself. Again I DEMAND MSU baseball be amongst the LSU's and Vandy's in baseball not eating algae with the bottom feeding Tennessee's. Memphis baseball is better than MSU. That's pathetic and unacceptable dude.

You mean the Vanderbilt team that has been traditionally built on small ball even moreso than us and currently has only nine fewer SAC bunts? Or the LSU team that leads the SEC in stolen bases right now?

It probably hasn't occurred to you that I am saying for everyone everything that needs to be said.

Again, no is happy with what is going on right now. That doesn't make what you posted any less idiotic.

[Smitty]

Uh just getting bigger "power" hitters won't do shit if Cohen can't/won't develop their power stroke. We have guys that would be much more productive at other schools due to instruction.

You mention some names like Vickerson and Brown as people we "can only expect to hit singles and bunt". Dummy.

Cody Brown leads the team in doubles! He's slugging .420! Vickerson is slugging .415! You act like they have to sac bunt, which is as wrong as it's been for 5 years of you loving the sac bunt!

The problem is Cohen cannot develop our deep ball threat because his instruction takes that swing away. Collins 2 HR. Rea 4 HR. Hump 5 HR. Holland 1 HR. That's pathetic. We don't have very many actual "singles hitters".. We just have a illiterate offensive approach sucking their production away.

[Dawg61]

Uh just getting bigger "power" hitters won't do shit if Cohen can't/won't develop their power stroke. We have guys that would be much more productive at other schools due to instruction.

You mention some names like Vickerson and Brown as people we "can only expect to hit singles and bunt". Dummy.

Cody Brown leads the team in doubles! He's slugging .420! Vickerson is slugging .415! You act like they have to sac bunt, which is as wrong as it's been for 5 years of you loving the sac bunt!

The problem is Cohen cannot develop our deep ball threat because his instruction takes that swing away. Collins 2 HR. Rea 4 HR. Hump 5 HR. Holland 1 HR. That's pathetic. We don't have very many actual "singles hitters".. We just have a illiterate offensive approach sucking their production away.

Todd gonna have to join Engie's new board shitandstatistics.com

[BeardoMSU]

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkqm0enAZt1qh59n0o1_500.gif

[gravedigger]

So om played for the nc in the last 3 years in football?

Well then. Exactly the same

[Bothrops]

Gonna be kinda weird to have the best stadium in the country and not be a top-10 program. Of course it hasn't happened yet, and I'll be surprised if it's what they advertised at this point.

[Coach34]

Gonna be kinda weird to have the best stadium in the country and not be a top-10 program. Of course it hasn't happened yet, and I'll be surprised if it's what they advertised at this point.

Why? SC was drawing 80K+ in their football stadium for years when they sucked. They have dedicated fans- just like Miss State baseball
LSU has always had a great stadium- they werent a top 10 program until Saban kick-started them and Miles kept it rolling
Auburn had a nice 80K stadium for football long before they made a run under Tubby in the 2000's

[MsStateBaseball]

2 for 16. Thats how many CWS appearances Miss State has in the last 16 years. 2. Two. Dos.

I keep seeing our fans saying we are a top 10 program- and it's simply not true anymore. The 1990's ended and so did our standing as a top tier baseball school. The lack of scholarships available hurts both us and Mississippi. Bunko has made them very relevant finally and they still only have 1 CWS appearance. It's harder to win at Miss State now in baseball than it is at half the other SEC schools.

We have had losing SEC records in 8 of the last 16 years. That's not a top 10 baseball school.
We have no NC in our history- thats not a top 10 baseball school
We only have 7 CWS appearances the last 35 years- thats not a top 10 baseball school.

All this talk of firing Cohen for 1 down season after a really good 3 year run is ridiculous. College baseball has evolved alot since the 1990's and we havent quite recovered yet.

Should we strive to be there? Absolutely
Is our fan support top 10? Absolutely
Are our facilities top 10? No- but will be in 2 years

Some of ya'll need a dose of reality

Correct, that is why we need elite talent.

[Smitty]

Correct, that is why we need elite talent.

Worthless without elite development which is Cohen's issue. He is wasting what he has.. The product on the field is not being maximized to it's potential.

[Todd4State]

Uh just getting bigger "power" hitters won't do shit if Cohen can't/won't develop their power stroke. We have guys that would be much more productive at other schools due to instruction.

You mention some names like Vickerson and Brown as people we "can only expect to hit singles and bunt". Dummy.

Cody Brown leads the team in doubles! He's slugging .420! Vickerson is slugging .415! You act like they have to sac bunt, which is as wrong as it's been for 5 years of you loving the sac bunt!

The problem is Cohen cannot develop our deep ball threat because his instruction takes that swing away. Collins 2 HR. Rea 4 HR. Hump 5 HR. Holland 1 HR. That's pathetic. We don't have very many actual "singles hitters".. We just have a illiterate offensive approach sucking their production away.

You talking about swing instruction is laughable for reasons that you've proven on here with your thoughts on how to hit with two strikes. Even if we had a bad approach, you wouldn't know the difference.

What power hitters have we had that Cohen has "not developed"? We've had so few to start with. Collins has been hurt, Rea was recruited as a pitcher, and Holland is not a power hitter to start with. And even Humphreys has improved over last season and I expect him to continue to do so.

Who cares if Cody Brown leads us in doubles? I'm wrong because he's the tallest midget? He only has 13 extra base hits total. Why don't you compare their slugging percentage to the leaders of the rest of the league rather than against other singles hitters? NO ONE on our team is in the top 15 in the SEC in any extra base hit category right now.

A .420! slugging percentage compared to the SEC leader who has a slugging percentage of .729 and the number 15 guy has a slugging percentage of .549. But please tell me what a dummy I am when our hitters aren't even slugging remotely close to the top 20 in the entire league. And yes, when you have that many singles hitters you have to create runs by bunting for hits, stealing bases, and putting runners in motion. It's not ideal, but it's what we have to do to survive.

[Todd4State]

Worthless without elite development which is Cohen's issue. He is wasting what he has.. The product on the field is not being maximized to it's potential.

C- Collins has been hurt and will probably still be drafted pretty high next year.
1B- Rea recruited as a pitcher. Not drafted
2B- Holland is a JUCO never been drafted
3B- Heck is a JUCO never been drafted
SS- Gridley is a freshman and never has been drafted
LF- Humphreys- drafted by Nationals and leads team in home runs
CF- Robson- drafted by Padres and leads team in average and stolen bases
RF- Vickerson- is a JUCO and was never drafted
DH- Reynolds- is a JUCO and was never drafted

Which one of these players would you actually consider an "elite talent"?

[Coach34]

C- Collins has been hurt and will probably still be drafted pretty high next year.
1B- Rea recruited as a pitcher. Not drafted
2B- Holland is a JUCO never been drafted
3B- Heck is a JUCO never been drafted
SS- Gridley is a freshman and never has been drafted
LF- Humphreys- drafted by Nationals and leads team in home runs
CF- Robson- drafted by Padres and leads team in average and stolen bases
RF- Vickerson- is a JUCO and was never drafted
DH- Reynolds- is a JUCO and was never drafted

Which one of these players would you actually consider an "elite talent"?

ouch

Looks like we have a recruiting problem- not a development problem

[Bothrops]

Why? SC was drawing 80K+ in their football stadium for years when they sucked. They have dedicated fans- just like Miss State baseball
LSU has always had a great stadium- they werent a top 10 program until Saban kick-started them and Miles kept it rolling
Auburn had a nice 80K stadium for football long before they made a run under Tubby in the 2000's

That's fine and all but you're comparing football to baseball, which hugely different in terms of average fan interest. I'm all for the stadium, but the younger students/alum are gonna need to get more with program.

[Coach34]

That's fine and all but you're comparing football to baseball, which hugely different in terms of average fan interest. I'm all for the stadium, but the younger students/alum are gonna need to get more with program.

Just because you have top 10 fan interest doesnt mean you have to have a top 10 program was my point

[Smitty]

And yes, when you have that many singles hitters you have to create runs by bunting for hits, stealing bases, and putting runners in motion. It's not ideal, but it's what we have to do to survive.

First time in 5+ years this post hasn't included sac bunting.... Progress. I agree with all of those things you listed, you have just (15+ times) always included sac bunting in that list.

[Homedawg]

You talking about swing instruction is laughable for reasons that you've proven on here with your thoughts on how to hit with two strikes. Even if we had a bad approach, you wouldn't know the difference.

What power hitters have we had that Cohen has "not developed"? We've had so few to start with. Collins has been hurt, Rea was recruited as a pitcher, and Holland is not a power hitter to start with. And even Humphreys has improved over last season and I expect him to continue to do so.

Who cares if Cody Brown leads us in doubles? I'm wrong because he's the tallest midget? He only has 13 extra base hits total. Why don't you compare their slugging percentage to the leaders of the rest of the league rather than against other singles hitters? NO ONE on our team is in the top 15 in the SEC in any extra base hit category right now.

A .420! slugging percentage compared to the SEC leader who has a slugging percentage of .729 and the number 15 guy has a slugging percentage of .549. But please tell me what a dummy I am when our hitters aren't even slugging remotely close to the top 20 in the entire league. And yes, when you have that many singles hitters you have to create runs by bunting for hits, stealing bases, and putting runners in motion. It's not ideal, but it's what we have to do to survive.
Funny you should mention the great 2 strike approach debate. For shits and giggles I recently asked 2 people in the Yankee organization, one an advanced scout and the other a coach, about this absurd debate, they laughed like hell when i told them what the 9 idiots on this board said was the proper 2 strike approach. I didn't ask because I needed to know. I asked to get a good laugh. And boy it was good. One response was, "shit, that won't work in wiffle ball in the back yard. What idiot said that crazy shit. You are kidding right?". Nope I said. People believe it.

[Smitty]

LSU

C - Kade Scivicque .370 5 HR.. JUCO-Not Drafted
1B - Chris Chinea .369 7 HR.. Not Drafted
2B - Jared Foster .275 8 HR.. Not Drafted
3B - Connor Hale .333 4 HR.. JUCO - Not Drafted
SS - Alex Bregman... Drafted 29th Round
LF - Jake Fraley .291 1 HR .. Not Drafted
CF - Mark Laird .335 1 HR ..Not Drafted
RF - Chris Sciambra .337 2 HR .. Not Drafted
DH/CF Andrew Stevenson .356 1 HR .. Not Drafted

Interesting

[CadaverDawg]

LSU

C - Kade Scivicque .370 5 HR.. JUCO-Not Drafted
1B - Chris Chinea .369 7 HR.. Not Drafted
2B - Jared Foster .275 8 HR.. Not Drafted
3B - Connor Hale .333 4 HR.. JUCO - Not Drafted
SS - Alex Bregman... Drafted 29th Round
LF - Jake Fraley .291 1 HR .. Not Drafted
CF - Mark Laird .335 1 HR ..Not Drafted
RF - Chris Sciambra .337 2 HR .. Not Drafted
DH/CF Andrew Stevenson .356 1 HR .. Not Drafted

Interesting

Ouch

[Smitty]

Ouch

Yep, that one will leave a mark.. Especially the two JUCO's that are smashing.

[Jack Lambert]

I relate it to football. About nine games in during the 2013 football season everyone wanted Mullen's head and by the end of the Liberty Bowl he was being celebrated as if nothing was ever said.

[BeardoMSU]

C- Collins has been hurt and will probably still be drafted pretty high next year.
1B- Rea recruited as a pitcher. Not drafted
2B- Holland is a JUCO never been drafted
3B- Heck is a JUCO never been drafted
SS- Gridley is a freshman and never has been drafted
LF- Humphreys- drafted by Nationals and leads team in home runs
CF- Robson- drafted by Padres and leads team in average and stolen bases
RF- Vickerson- is a JUCO and was never drafted
DH- Reynolds- is a JUCO and was never drafted

Which one of these players would you actually consider an "elite talent"?

Yikes...

[War Machine Dawg]

I understand that we have a lineup full of singles hitters. For Heaven's sakes- I've been saying that we shouldn't expect our SINGLES hitters to be power hitters because that's what we want them to be, and then you're telling me that I don't seem to realize that our offense is 7-8 singles hitters? I WANT us to have 4-5 power hitters and 4-5 speed guys. Let's not pretend like we don't have posters on here that don't say things about how "this is what Cohen wants" or "all we have to do to hit with more power is change our hitting mechanics" though.

And there is a short term fix- it's called recruiting.

No. You've admitted yourself you expect the impact power bats in the current class to go to the Draft. That will leave us scrambling to fill their spots with hitters who are about on par with what we currently have. And when I say short term, I'm talking 1-2 years, i.e. the time Cohen will be given to fix this shitburger.

I find it hilarious that you're once aGAIN blowing our recruits like Nate Lowe while ranting about how JUCO players suck and we need to stop recruiting them. That's called talking out both sides of your mouth, last time I checked. Frankly, Cohen recruited his way into this mess and I don't see how he can recruit his way out of it in just one season. Especially considering that baseball recruiting is done years in advance.

[Smitty]

Texas A&M

Nick Banks.. .381... 5 HR .. Not Drafted 6'0
Logan Taylor.. .372... 10 HR.. Not Drafted 6'1
Mitchell Nau .. .364... 3 HR.. Not Drafted 5'10
Blake Allemand.. .337... 4 HR.. Not Drafted 5'10
Hunter Melton.. .336... 4 HR.. Not Drafted 6'2
Ronnie Gideon.. .325... 7 HR.. Drafted 35th Round
Ryne Birk.. .283... 4 HR... Not Drafted 5'10
JB Moss... .275... 5 HR... Not Drafted 6'0
Michael Barash.. .245... 1 HR.. Not Drafted 6'1
Logan Nottebrok.. .224... 4 HR.. Not Drafted 6'3

[confucius say]

The best way to determine whether a coach can develop talent is to see if talent develops from when they got here till when they left the program. I have not the time nor the energy to look it up, but I would venture to guess guys have become better hitters against sec competition under Cohen. Renfroe, Frazier, pirtle, rea, Vickerson, come to mind. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Smitty]

By my count, Texas A&M and LSU combined have the same number of draft picks in their lineup as we do.

[War Machine Dawg]

By my count, Texas A&M and LSU combined have the same number of draft picks in their lineup as we do.

So what you're saying is the only school with so-called elite talent and draft picks is Vandy (and maybe FL or SC - too lazy to look it up)? And I think we all know how Vandy is getting those guys into school.

Btw, could you go back and post the height of LSU's players and the height of our players? I'm willing to bet outside of Rea, Hump, Collins, and maybe Brown, we're severely undersized compared to them and aTm.

[Smitty]

but I would venture to guess guys have become hitters against sec competition under Cohen.

Becasue the norm is for players to get worse.... Good grief you apologists are grasping at every possible straw. BUT even so...

Alex Detz - regressed
Seth Heck - regressed
Brent Brownlee - regressed
Darryl Norris - regressed
Wes Rea - has regressed from 2013
CT Bradford - regressed for 2 years after a good FR year
Demarcus Henderson - draft pick.. never developed
Nick Flair - power that Cohen failed to develop
Daniel Garner - power that Cohen failed to develop
Derrick Armstrong - no improvement
Adam Frazier - 2012- .482 OBP.. 2013- 398 .OBP Cohen changes his approach?.. BB's cut in half
Gavin Collins - regressed this year
Brent Rooker - .222 2nd year on campus

[Todd4State]

First time in 5+ years this post hasn't included sac bunting.... Progress. I agree with all of those things you listed, you have just (15+ times) always included sac bunting in that list.

Because I know you are too stupid to know the difference.

[Todd4State]

By my count, Texas A&M and LSU combined have the same number of draft picks in their lineup as we do.

And we also have almost twice as many JUCO's as those team start combined. And yet, we somehow have as much "elite" talent as they do? Basically all that means is we have two guys that are more high end talent- but there is a BIG gap between Robson, Humphreys, and everyone else in terms of talent.

[Todd4State]

Becasue the norm is for players to get worse.... Good grief you apologists are grasping at every possible straw. BUT even so...

Alex Detz - regressed (JUCO didn't have Renfroe to protect him)
Seth Heck - regressed (JUCO .299 to currently .294)
Brent Brownlee - regressed (Hurt throughout career)
Darryl Norris - regressed (Hurt throughout career)
Wes Rea - has regressed from 2013 (What? Hit .245 last year and is now hitting .313)
CT Bradford - regressed for 2 years after a good FR year (Hurt again, hit .310 his senior year)
Demarcus Henderson - draft pick.. never developed (Raw, turned we got as much out of him as you could expect to get. Hit .274 as a sophomore, .265 as a junior)
Nick Flair - power that Cohen failed to develop (JUCO coach couldn't develop him either)
Daniel Garner - power that Cohen failed to develop (Sucks)
Derrick Armstrong - no improvement (Was better his senior year. Hit .266 junior year and then hit .267)
Adam Frazier - 2012- .482 OBP.. 2013- 398 .OBP Cohen changes his approach?.. BB's cut in half (BS on Cohen changing his approach. The Yankees are laughing at you)
Gavin Collins - regressed this year (Yes- after he had a bone taken out of his freaking hand. And still has more home runs than he did last year)Brent Rooker - .222 2nd year on campus (After he redshirted, and looked completely lost in camp last year.)

So, the majority of the guys you mentioned are either JUCO's or had injury plagued careers. With some typical Smitty absurdity mixed in such as Rooker not showing progress from his redshirt year, commentary on Frazier's approach, and expecting Collins to have an improved year coming off of in season surgery.

[Todd4State]

No. You've admitted yourself you expect the impact power bats in the current class to go to the Draft. That will leave us scrambling to fill their spots with hitters who are about on par with what we currently have. And when I say short term, I'm talking 1-2 years, i.e. the time Cohen will be given to fix this shitburger.

I find it hilarious that you're once aGAIN blowing our recruits like Nate Lowe while ranting about how JUCO players suck and we need to stop recruiting them. That's called talking out both sides of your mouth, last time I checked. Frankly, Cohen recruited his way into this mess and I don't see how he can recruit his way out of it in just one season. Especially considering that baseball recruiting is done years in advance.

Yes, I was totally "blowing Nate Lowe" when I said today that people need to pump the breaks on him JUST TODAY. That's called talking out of your ass last time I checked.

I expect the players that we do get to require a season or two to adjust- just as I do with every freshman player that comes to MSU. I tend to see the big picture on things rather than the immediate Adam Frazier is hitting .224 and Hunter Renfroe is hitting .106 as a freshman so they should be cut right now knee jerk reaction that a lot of our fans have.

[Really Clark?]

Becasue the norm is for players to get worse.... Good grief you apologists are grasping at every possible straw. BUT even so...

Alex Detz - regressed
Seth Heck - regressed
Brent Brownlee - regressed
Darryl Norris - regressed
Wes Rea - has regressed from 2013
CT Bradford - regressed for 2 years after a good FR year
Demarcus Henderson - draft pick.. never developed
Nick Flair - power that Cohen failed to develop
Daniel Garner - power that Cohen failed to develop
Derrick Armstrong - no improvement
Adam Frazier - 2012- .482 OBP.. 2013- 398 .OBP Cohen changes his approach?.. BB's cut in half
Gavin Collins - regressed this year
Brent Rooker - .222 2nd year on campus

Come on your better than that. Detz SEC numbers were nearly identical his two years. He feasted on some weaker non conference pitching his first year.

Heck's overall numbers are the same but SEC he has struggled this year.

Brownlee was hurt his Soph year but his Jr and Fresh numbers were comparable. His Sr he was off.

Rea is having his best year in Avg and is on pace to be about the same with HR

Bradford missed a good part of his Soph year. Then bounced back to about his normal production (being off .020 points on your avg doesn't necesarily mean he regressed) and finished with his highest avg and slg his last year.

Henderson was drafted in the 43rd round and had a nice career. He did improve from his Freshman year but never got over the next step. If I spot you him will you give us the big leap of Robson? It has to be coaching. If not him how bout Renfroe?

Flair is the biggest stretch. The guy left after one year and what? 9 games? That is a moronic conclusion shows an unbelievable bias. You shouldn't even have him listed.

Garner is almost the same. Redshirted so how can you say he regressed or was not developed. He struggled with the SEC in playing a total of 24 games. And all that power 5 hr in JUCO in 44 games and 120?? Something AB.

Armstrong did stay the same. You do know that every player or every season is not an upward progression right? I mean sometimes, as hard as it is for you to understand, players just stay at a certain level. With great coaching a guy may be maxed out as a .260 hitter.

Frazier. Really? You are arguing OBP. His slugging went up. He had the same SO with nearly 60 more AB and the average was close to the same. Yeah he was doing something different he became a better hitter.

Collins has had a bad year. He hasn't been injuried any has he?

Rooker. Why don't you look at some of those LSU great hitters and see what their numbers were their second year. Heck, Foster hit .115 last year for them after hitting .359 the year before. Stevenson two years ago .193.

You are so biased you can't even give a honest look at the players. We need work on offense. No question. And you are always tweaking mech. And maybe that is an issue. Too much tweaking. I'm not saying that but you don't know mechanics so how do you know a Player regressed or not. I know that some seasons players are trying to improve for the long haul but they have a down turn in numbers to correct issues. We have had players regressed but as many have gotten better. Now if you want to debate how much better some of these players have gotten while here then that is certainly a good topic. And not all of our guys have. But that list is ridiculous and you should at least be honest enough to know we have had players get better and being a better hitter doesn't mean better numbers or that we are using the right approach.

The mechanics issue is getting so clouded with our results (you never look at the results only the process when working mechanics) and individual approach with each plate appearance. Neither has anything to do with mechanics and until you "experts" actually know and (this is the biggee) UNDERESTAND what is being taught then maybe you should educate yourself first. I don't agree with all of his teachings or like all of his drills. In fact only use some his drills that are variants of others that have been around. But at least I know and have studied some of his teachings to base my opinion. Even if I approach things differently than him I know he has a lot more good teaching than people want to give him credit for. Now is what he teaching getting lost in translation with the players, too micro managing each part and causing them to think more than they should? Maybe. I don't know but his base teaching is fine and appropriate.

[I seen it dawg]

Why does anyone take anything Smitty says and do anything more than ignore it? He shouldn't be allowed to post about baseball.

[I seen it dawg]

I want an entirely new staff. Non-MSU people. And it's not because I live in 95 it's because Cohen and staff do too many things that you shouldn't if you are going to be successful at a high level. Cohen might be the 9th or 10th best manager in the conference. We should have better and they are out there.

[RougeDawg]

And what do you expect hitters like Jake Vickerson, Jacob Robson, Seth Heck, and Cody Brown to do other than hit singles and bunt? Do you really think that Cohen, Rudy Jaramillo, Charlie Lau, Clark, or Palmeiro could make them into power hitters? That would be like Astros fans expecting Jose Altuve to hit 30 home runs because their hitting coach had a magic wand or something. Yet another example of how our fans don't understand the game.

Cohen built us for the baseball culture at the time- and it resulted in two SR's, and a CWS appearance making it to the finals. And now he is recruiting more power hitters like Rooker, Cole Gordon, Nate Lowe, and hopefully Riley and Pickett make it to adjust for the current era.

I'm pretty sure Cohen gets it. It's pretty much public knowledge that Cohen wanted the ball change to be delayed to give us a chance to adjust our roster. If he was deadest on small ball, I'm pretty sure that would have never come out.

Yes Todd, proper mechanics taught to any of the players mentioned would provide them the ability to apply more power on the baseball at point of contact. It's simple physics and leverage. Our mechanics (ie. Hands/elbows away from the body, hands too close to midpoint of body on stance, squatting too much) are all correctable items that take very little work and/or instruction. Changing any of these will add power simply by the physics of leverage. Correct all 3 for most hitters and you will see a dramatic jump in power numbers.

You call me out for "thinking I know more than others", but simply understanding physics and the specific traits of a power baseball stance don't exactly exude someone acting like they know more than anyone else. I simply can comprehend two different yet similar situations, put them together and draw an educated description.

They problem you and many others have is no "below the surface" baseball experience and knowledge base. I could write an entire thread on how and where you take your lead off of each base, depending on what you want the other team to think and/or do. Most people have no clue that you can take a lead numerous ways off of first base to influence the defense into doing something you want. The base runners who know these things can influence the defense and thus increase their chances of success. I rarely see a college player do these small lead off things. A player can take a normal lead and get the pitcher to throw over every time based on the angle he takes his lead away from first. I apologize for getting into details, because you and others cannot comprehend them and say "I think I know everything", so I will stop.

When you and others would like some insight on baseball below the surface of basic high school knowledge, let me know. Most people such as yourself, would rather discount what I say opposed to taking a moment to think about it and actually comprehend what I'm actually attempting to share with the board.

[bulldogcountry1]

I want an entirely new staff. Non-MSU people. And it's not because I live in 95 it's because Cohen and staff do too many things that you shouldn't if you are going to be successful at a high level. Cohen might be the 9th or 10th best manager in the conference. We should have better and they are out there.


By "too many things you shouldn't", do you mean they make bad baseball decisions or they are involved in too many things they shouldn't be worried about?

[Boodawg]

What power hitters have we had that Cohen has "not developed"? We've had so few to start with. Collins has been hurt, Rea was recruited as a pitcher, and Holland is not a power hitter to start with. And even Humphreys has improved over last season and I expect him to continue to do so.

I was wondering the other day why we haven't every pitched Rea. I never knew he was recruited as a pitcher. Now I wonder why even more.

[Coach34]

Hell, our closer the last 3 years was recruited as a hitter- 1B. Holder wasn't expected to pitch at State.

[Maroonthirteen]

Uhhhh.....no. I may have said it wouldn't hurt my feeling if he were gone after this season immediately following the Governor's Cup debacle. But I've also said multiple times I know he will, and SHOULD, get next season to fix it.t.

He should get at least another year to fix things. But this weekend will be interesting. If we get swept..... People will be irrational.

[maroonmania]

He should get at least another year to fix things. But this weekend will be interesting. If we get swept..... People will be irrational.

Cohen could lose every game the rest of this season and would still be back. Unlike a Rick Ray, Cohen has enough capital stored up from the NC-runner up year to survive anything THIS year, but assuming we do miss out on post-season this year, the pressure will turn up significantly next year.

[Really Clark?]

Yes Todd, proper mechanics taught to any of the players mentioned would provide them the ability to apply more power on the baseball at point of contact. It's simple physics and leverage. Our mechanics (ie. Hands/elbows away from the body, hands too close to midpoint of body on stance, squatting too much) are all correctable items that take very little work and/or instruction. Changing any of these will add power simply by the physics of leverage. Correct all 3 for most hitters and you will see a dramatic jump in power numbers.

You call me out for "thinking I know more than others", but simply understanding physics and the specific traits of a power baseball stance don't exactly exude someone acting like they know more than anyone else. I simply can comprehend two different yet similar situations, put them together and draw an educated description.

They problem you and many others have is no "below the surface" baseball experience and knowledge base. I could write an entire thread on how and where you take your lead off of each base, depending on what you want the other team to think and/or do. Most people have no clue that you can take a lead numerous ways off of first base to influence the defense into doing something you want. The base runners who know these things can influence the defense and thus increase their chances of success. I rarely see a college player do these small lead off things. A player can take a normal lead and get the pitcher to throw over every time based on the angle he takes his lead away from first. I apologize for getting into details, because you and others cannot comprehend them and say "I think I know everything", so I will stop.

When you and others would like some insight on baseball below the surface of basic high school knowledge, let me know. Most people such as yourself, would rather discount what I say opposed to taking a moment to think about it and actually comprehend what I'm actually attempting to share with the board.

Wow. You are awful condescending for someone who is actually very limited in your own understanding of mechanics. You give ridiculous verbiage of things that don't even matter or have been shown to you are incorrect. At this point I have to contradict you at every turn for fear of someone actually thinking you have a clue about a Pony ball swing much less high school and above. You keep talking about basic stuff that you even get wrong or confused about and try to dress it up like you are given insight. And you are wrong. I have given you very lengthy overview of stances and elbow positioning with some of the best in MLB, pictures and video. And you still bring it up, and you are dead wrong with your thinking. I can't even piece together what your philosophy is. You get called out because you are an amateur with mechanics who is trying to present themselves as someone who knows what he is talking about. You should stop, not because of people calling your idiocy out, but because you are given bad information and someone might use that info who doesn't know better. There are a lot of dads you are trying to help kids on here and you will lead them down a struggle. Although I will admit you basically talk about things we do wrong (that at times have no bearing on the swing, amateur thinking) and can't actual give instruction about what is correct. So us who do and have studied and worked with hitters, thank you for stopping and hopefully that is one less hitter we have to correct later in life. And btw your knowledge hasn't even touched the surface of a high level swing. So instead of insulting other people's knowledge, work on your ignorance. What could you possibly have to teach? Go study and work with hitters yourself for a few years then come back to the mechanics discussion.

If you can actually post an illustration and/or video and show and break down what is wrong with a hitter and develop a plan to just begin to correct their flaw, I will listen and maybe it will prove you have knowledge on the subject. Otherwise you are doing the right thing in stopping.

ETA. Sorry guys for the late addition to this but it was pointed out that I was so mad at the overall tone of the post I missed something important. Some of what he is talking about with our stance issues, mainly the elbows to far away from the body, if a hitter continues his or her swing with what he advocates at stance, hands and elbows close to the torso, then there will be reducing of the power considerably. It can create way too much bat drag losing power and timing. Now someone who starts with that stance but at early load adjusts to a proper position, that's fine. But you just can't maintain that position because the path will be off and possibly have considerable bat drag.

http://baseballrebellion.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Screen-Shot-2014-06-02-at-3.42.06-PM.png

The above photo is just a reference of how differing hand, elbow, bat, etc position is between players and how nearly all high level coaches agree that at stance (pre-swing) it does NOT necessarily have a bearing on the actual swing. It is NOT an absolute in the swing. When you initiate load however, you have to get into proper position.

[confucius say]

Becasue the norm is for players to get worse.... Good grief you apologists are grasping at every possible straw. BUT even so...

Alex Detz - regressed
Seth Heck - regressed
Brent Brownlee - regressed
Darryl Norris - regressed
Wes Rea - has regressed from 2013
CT Bradford - regressed for 2 years after a good FR year
Demarcus Henderson - draft pick.. never developed
Nick Flair - power that Cohen failed to develop
Daniel Garner - power that Cohen failed to develop
Derrick Armstrong - no improvement
Adam Frazier - 2012- .482 OBP.. 2013- 398 .OBP Cohen changes his approach?.. BB's cut in half
Gavin Collins - regressed this year
Brent Rooker - .222 2nd year on campus

Yes, without good coaching and player development as a whole, the norm would be for kids to stay about the same.
And that list is garbage. Rea is a much more complete hitter now than his freshman year. You think Frazier didn't develop as a hitter his 3 years? Please. You are trying too hard and it is obvious. I'm not saying Cohen is the best, but he has done nothing but win in his 15 years as a head coach.

[GTHOM]

2 for 16. Thats how many CWS appearances Miss State has in the last 16 years. 2. Two. Dos.

I keep seeing our fans saying we are a top 10 program- and it's simply not true anymore. The 1990's ended and so did our standing as a top tier baseball school. The lack of scholarships available hurts both us and Mississippi. Bunko has made them very relevant finally and they still only have 1 CWS appearance. It's harder to win at Miss State now in baseball than it is at half the other SEC schools.

We have had losing SEC records in 8 of the last 16 years. That's not a top 10 baseball school.
We have no NC in our history- thats not a top 10 baseball school
We only have 7 CWS appearances the last 35 years- thats not a top 10 baseball school.

All this talk of firing Cohen for 1 down season after a really good 3 year run is ridiculous. College baseball has evolved alot since the 1990's and we havent quite recovered yet.

Should we strive to be there? Absolutely
Is our fan support top 10? Absolutely
Are our facilities top 10? No- but will be in 2 years

Some of ya'll need a dose of reality

I disagree that we dont have top 10 facilities, not sure how a program can hold literally all of the top 10 attendance records in college baseball history and be known nationwide for our stadium and not at least be in the top 10.


Also, in my opinion cohen doesnt need to be fired, but there is no excuse for us to be this bad. none

[I seen it dawg]

Yes Todd, proper mechanics taught to any of the players mentioned would provide them the ability to apply more power on the baseball at point of contact. It's simple physics and leverage. Our mechanics (ie. Hands/elbows away from the body, hands too close to midpoint of body on stance, squatting too much) are all correctable items that take very little work and/or instruction. Changing any of these will add power simply by the physics of leverage. Correct all 3 for most hitters and you will see a dramatic jump in power numbers.

You call me out for "thinking I know more than others", but simply understanding physics and the specific traits of a power baseball stance don't exactly exude someone acting like they know more than anyone else. I simply can comprehend two different yet similar situations, put them together and draw an educated description.

They problem you and many others have is no "below the surface" baseball experience and knowledge base. I could write an entire thread on how and where you take your lead off of each base, depending on what you want the other team to think and/or do. Most people have no clue that you can take a lead numerous ways off of first base to influence the defense into doing something you want. The base runners who know these things can influence the defense and thus increase their chances of success. I rarely see a college player do these small lead off things. A player can take a normal lead and get the pitcher to throw over every time based on the angle he takes his lead away from first. I apologize for getting into details, because you and others cannot comprehend them and say "I think I know everything", so I will stop.

When you and others would like some insight on baseball below the surface of basic high school knowledge, let me know. Most people such as yourself, would rather discount what I say opposed to taking a moment to think about it and actually comprehend what I'm actually attempting to share with the board.

Super douchetastic. Nice work putz.

[I seen it dawg]

By "too many things you shouldn't", do you mean they make bad baseball decisions or they are involved in too many things they shouldn't be worried about?

Baseball decisions. It is the totality of what they do. Baseball. They are average at it.

[Dawg61]

Yes Todd, proper mechanics taught to any of the players mentioned would provide them the ability to apply more power on the baseball at point of contact. It's simple physics and leverage. Our mechanics (ie. Hands/elbows away from the body, hands too close to midpoint of body on stance, squatting too much) are all correctable items that take very little work and/or instruction. Changing any of these will add power simply by the physics of leverage. Correct all 3 for most hitters and you will see a dramatic jump in power numbers.

You call me out for "thinking I know more than others", but simply understanding physics and the specific traits of a power baseball stance don't exactly exude someone acting like they know more than anyone else. I simply can comprehend two different yet similar situations, put them together and draw an educated description.

They problem you and many others have is no "below the surface" baseball experience and knowledge base. I could write an entire thread on how and where you take your lead off of each base, depending on what you want the other team to think and/or do. Most people have no clue that you can take a lead numerous ways off of first base to influence the defense into doing something you want. The base runners who know these things can influence the defense and thus increase their chances of success. I rarely see a college player do these small lead off things. A player can take a normal lead and get the pitcher to throw over every time based on the angle he takes his lead away from first. I apologize for getting into details, because you and others cannot comprehend them and say "I think I know everything", so I will stop.

When you and others would like some insight on baseball below the surface of basic high school knowledge, let me know. Most people such as yourself, would rather discount what I say opposed to taking a moment to think about it and actually comprehend what I'm actually attempting to share with the board.

#HandsBackDon'tBloop