Baseball recruiting class

[msstate7]

Do we have a Friday night starter type committed?

Are we after power hitters or small speedy guys?

Does this dumpster fire this year hurt our chances of getting mlb draft guys on campus?

[Todd4State]

A few. We're going to lose at least one to MLB.

We want good hitters-both types. Anyone that suggests otherwise is an idiot.

Not as much as the millions of dollars that they can throw at players hurts us. I actually think that this is the biggest disadvantage that we have more than anything. Even more than scholarships. Vandy, LSU, etc. loses their share to MLB for the same reason. We have to find a way to start getting the MLB caliber HITTERS onto campus. The only way that is ever going to change is for MLB to change their draft rules- and they're not going to do that.

[Homedawg]

We are going to lose more than one. The one thing this class has is pitchers. And lots of them. The "second" class guys like cyr from Kansas is really strong. This offensive class is good but not elite. Meaning it's not going to jump us up offensively next year. Stovall, Alexander, Moreno, and Riley can all be very good hitters but I don't think that they can all step in and be difference makers next year. I do think Alexander can come in and start due to his glove.

[Todd4State]

We are going to lose more than one. The one thing this class has is pitchers. And lots of them. The "second" class guys like cyr from Kansas is really strong. This offensive class is good but not elite. Meaning it's not going to jump us up offensively next year. Stovall, Alexander, Moreno, and Riley can all be very good hitters but I don't think that they can all step in and be difference makers next year. I do think Alexander can come in and start due to his glove.

It's unrealistic to expect freshmen to contribute and all be difference makers. I do think a couple of them possibly can- but it's just unknown how quickly any of them will adjust.

[MsStateBaseball]

What this class is bringing in is (if you are thinking just next year) is relievers throwing around 90 or above. We should have at least 8 new pitchers to shore up the bullpen. All the starters for SEC are already on the team.

The JC guy Nate Lowe will help us at bat probably Riley, Marrero and Stovall. Pickett is likely gone to pros.

I think many on our team now will be much better next year. Remember, 95 percent of our starters will be back. Most glaring need is bullpen and we will have very good recruits to fill that.

[Vandelaydawg]

We are going to lose more than one. The one thing this class has is pitchers. And lots of them. The "second" class guys like cyr from Kansas is really strong. This offensive class is good but not elite. Meaning it's not going to jump us up offensively next year. Stovall, Alexander, Moreno, and Riley can all be very good hitters but I don't think that they can all step in and be difference makers next year. I do think Alexander can come in and start due to his glove.

Cyr on the season...: 19.1 inn pitched, 7 hits, 34 K's and 0.00 ERA...record 2-0 with 2 no decisions. Had one outing where he struck out all nine he faced. Could be a sleeper.

[Jacksondevildog]

Hopefully Cyr doesn't throw 93. If he does, we will have to drop his arm angle to get more sink so he can get "down to the string and induce ground balls". We need him throwing 83*.


Cyr on the season...: 19.1 inn pitched, 7 hits, 34 K's and 0.00 ERA...record 2-0 with 2 no decisions. Had one outing where he struck out all nine he faced. Could be a sleeper.

[ScottH]

Hopefully Cyr doesn't throw 93. If he does, we will have to drop his arm angle to get more sink so he can get "down to the string and induce ground balls". We need him throwing 83*.

That's made me laugh.

I think back to my hs coach from year's ago. When our pitcher was headed to the mound one day, coach told him "Son, it's easy, throw it past them or throw it where they can't hit it solid" Now, those were simple non technical instructions.

[Jacksondevildog]

I heard Dave Serrano speak at the ABCA convention in Dallas last year and he said that he wants guys that can throw hard. Not "Pitch to contact" guys. I agree. I think we try to get too cute at times with arm angles and using the spin analyzer machine we have to recruit guys. We need to recruit more pitchers that can come in and compete for an SEC weekend starting spot.

[dawgs]

I heard Dave Serrano speak at the ABCA convention in Dallas last year and he said that he wants guys that can throw hard. Not "Pitch to contact" guys. I agree. I think we try to get too cute at times with arm angles and using the spin analyzer machine we have to recruit guys. We need to recruit more pitchers that can come in and compete for an SEC weekend starting spot.

Well strike outs always play. Pitching to contact opens up the possibilities. Even regularly inducing weak contact can catch up to you with a few bad breaks, like errors, productive outs, bloop hits, etc. if you have 2 pitchers with similar surface numbers (IP, era, whip), you almost always want the guy that gets more Ks because he's less succetible to bad luck.

[Bully13]

what are some of the things some schools have over others in regards to getting the top notch players to come play college baseball for a few years vs signing pro and playing in the minors?

how does MSU rate in that area vs other elite programs?

[Todd4State]

what are some of the things some schools have over others in regards to getting the top notch players to come play college baseball for a few years vs signing pro and playing in the minors?

how does MSU rate in that area vs other elite programs?

We've only lost three the past four years- DuPont, Vallot, and Burdick- ALL were power hitters. We've kept Robson, Humphreys, Hudson, Woodruff, Lindgren as far as guys that were actually drafted. So, not too bad when compared to others. Pitchers are more likely to go to college than power hitters.

When you are talking SEC only, each school has it's own individual situation as far as advantages and disadvantages. Texas, Florida, and Georgia are three of the top producing states of baseball talent in the country right now. Advantage Texas A&M, Florida, and Georgia. Louisiana is very strong as far as baseball talent and they have the baseball fan base that is equal to ours. A lot of kids in Louisiana will happily turn down millions and go play for LSU- even though they knew that Bertman was going to blow their arms out and cost them millions. My guess is there is a lot of pressure locally for kids to go to LSU whereas MSU fans are "you're stupid if you don't take the money." Not real sure why that is. Vanderbilt has an advantage because of how they can work the scholarship rules.

MSU has an advantage with a strong fan base that cares about the sport and history of winning. (Going to Omaha roughly every 5-6 years on average since Polk became the head coach in 1976) That goes a long way and has helped us out a lot in the past. The new facility will help us out and already has in recruiting currently. The biggest disadvantage we have at MSU is not scholarship restrictions. It's the fact that we are a small state that doesn't produce enough talent to stock a NC caliber team with Mississippi talent alone. We HAVE to recruit out of state in the major baseball states and we have to combine that with local talent. The other thing that is a big disadvantage is Mississippi HS baseball players have a reputation for being extremely raw and normally it takes a couple of years to develop them into a "MLB" talent. See Stratton, Renfroe, and Lindgren among others. Look at how all three of those guys did their freshman and sophomore years and then look at how they did their junior year.

To take it a step further- look at Clark (New Orleans), Palmeiro (Miami), and Thigpen (Florida)- those guys were instant impact type guys and you see where they are from. A more current example- look at Gridley (Georgia) and Collins (California) and compare them to Reid Humphreys his freshman year.

That's why Ron Polk spent a LOT of time trying to develop baseball in Mississippi at the lower levels and reached out to a lot of coaches through camps and books and etc.

[Coursesuper]

Bobby Thigpen was a Juco player Chipola JC.

[Todd4State]

Bobby Thigpen was a Juco player Chipola JC.

True, but he was still an instant impact guy for us.

[Coursesuper]

Isn't that what Juco guys are supposed be. If you are looking for project Jucos you are up shat creek without TP.

[msstate7]

Isn't that what Juco guys are supposed be. If you are looking for project Jucos you are up shat creek without TP.

You mean like spruill and Reynolds?

[Coursesuper]

You get it!

[Todd4State]

Isn't that what Juco guys are supposed be. If you are looking for project Jucos you are up shat creek without TP.

I totally agree about what JUCO's are supposed to be. My point was that because he was from Florida he wasn't as raw as a player from Mississippi. May be a bad example on my part. There are many others like Adam Frazier that are better examples.

[Coursesuper]

I totally agree about what JUCO's are supposed to be. My point was that because he was from Florida he wasn't as raw as a player from Mississippi. May be a bad example on my part. There are many others like Adam Frazier that are better examples.

Quick question, What position was Bobby recruited to play?

[engie]

I'm past giving a dang about ratings. I want to get back to recruiting hard-nosed players that never, ever quit and fight to the very end. We may have upgraded "talent" -- but we've downgraded mental capability. We've lost our identity somewhere along the way here...

[Coursesuper]

I'm past giving a dang about ratings. I want to get back to recruiting hard-nosed players that never, ever quit and fight to the very end. We may have upgraded "talent" -- but we've downgraded mental capability. We've lost our identity somewhere along the way here...

I could not agree with you more!

[War Machine Dawg]

Here's the thing: Todd is saying he's worried about losing 5 guys to the Draft. At least 1 (Pickett) is certain. Those 5 are the 5 we need most to be the type program we want to be, particularly the hitters. The rest are more of the same. So if we lose them, this class goes from potentially great to average. And all the hoping in the world won't change that. We'll continue being a has been with midget slap hitters and pitch to contact arms.

[Homedawg]

Here's the thing: Todd is saying he's worried about losing 5 guys to the Draft. At least 1 (Pickett) is certain. Those 5 are the 5 we need most to be the type program we want to be, particularly the hitters. The rest are more of the same. So if we lose them, this class goes from potentially great to average. And all the hoping in the world won't change that. We'll continue being a has been with midget slap hitters and pitch to contact arms.

Actually Riley is the only hitter- dual guy that we might lose. Besides Pickett, of course, who you mentioned. I think we are good w merrano. Alexander isn't going anywhere. It's the power arms, which at this point we have exactly one on our staff- Hudson.

[engie]

pitch to contact arms.
This is the part of your baseball posting that I take issue with. It can't just be factually pessimistic -- it always has to take 2 steps off the cliff.

We're #103 in K/9IP right now. Struggling. Relievers are in transition(like many of us thought we would be -- just worse than we had hoped at this point).
Were #13 last year.
Were #10 in 2013.
Were #11 in 2012.
Were #30 in 2011.

I for one hope we keep recruiting these "pitch to contact" arms if it means we're going to be nationally elite 3 every 4 years on the hill. I'm not going through the full spreadsheet averages -- but I'd bet that stat is cumulatively about #8 nationally since the rebuild was complete just like ERA and most every other pitching metric under Butch Thompson the last 4 years. That doesn't mean this year isn't sucking -- but he's earned some good will at this point in time. Especially with the committed class...

[Saltydog]

kinda like our football program does. All toll, I think Butch has done a decent job with that but, sans this year. On the hitting side, we are shit. Simple as that. No power and we're not developing what we do have. Some of our guys should be further along than they are. You have a guy like Swinarksi that supposedly has a ton of talent but for some reason he hasn't sniffed the field. That's just one example.

[Todd4State]

Quick question, What position was Bobby recruited to play?

That's a good one. My guess would be RF.

[engie]

kinda like our football program does. All toll, I think Butch has done a decent job with that but, sans this year. On the hitting side, we are shit. Simple as that. No power and we're not developing what we do have. Some of our guys should be further along than they are. You have a guy like Swinarksi that supposedly has a ton of talent but for some reason he hasn't sniffed the field. That's just one example.

Time for Mingione to fall on the ax.

I agree with you fwiw. These guys should be further along. There are talented hitters -- but not good situational hitters. Alot of that is mental -- and all the bunting and "I don't have faith in you" crap that we do doesn't do that aspect any favors. Hard to know what the cart is and what the horse is on that -- it depends on the player. And it's still ultimately on the coaches for going away from the hard-nosed approach that was on it's way to winning a title with Lane Burroughs here in order to chase Perfect Game all-stars under Mingione...

[Todd4State]

I'm past giving a dang about ratings. I want to get back to recruiting hard-nosed players that never, ever quit and fight to the very end. We may have upgraded "talent" -- but we've downgraded mental capability. We've lost our identity somewhere along the way here...

I think you hit the nail on the head here with a major issue that we have currently. Cody Brown and Ryan Gridley are the only ones that we currently have that I would put in that category as far as on the field players. Fitts is redeeming himself in that regard, and then I think we can put Preston Brown and Laster in that category also.

Hard nosed players win you games.

That's actually one of the things that excites me about our class- Gridley is just the first of several that are coming in that are back to that style. Luke Alexander, Jake Mangum, Brant Blaylock, Elih Marrero, and Hunter Stovall all fit that mold. Kale Breaux, Konnor Pilkington, Noah Hughes, and Keegan James fit that mold on the mound.

We just have to find ways to get the Pickett's in to class. And unfortunately, it's not sounding good on that front right now. As WMD said, I'm expecting five to not come- and all are the elite types that we must have.

[Todd4State]

kinda like our football program does. All toll, I think Butch has done a decent job with that but, sans this year. On the hitting side, we are shit. Simple as that. No power and we're not developing what we do have. Some of our guys should be further along than they are. You have a guy like Swinarksi that supposedly has a ton of talent but for some reason he hasn't sniffed the field. That's just one example.

Even Dan could only get so much out of Tyson Lee. It's hard to develop power from guys that don't have it and never really will. Collins and Humphreys have it- they have progressed nicely and should be even better next year. Rooker has it and he has progressed. Rea hasn't. Swinarski has had concussions to deal with which is why he hasn't developed like he should. Even though it seems like he has been around for five years, he is still only a RS freshman and it's too soon to give up on him even though I'm not counting on him either.

[Todd4State]

Time for Mingione to fall on the ax.

I agree with you fwiw. These guys should be further along. There are talented hitters -- but not good situational hitters. Alot of that is mental -- and all the bunting and "I don't have faith in you" crap that we do doesn't do that aspect any favors. Hard to know what the cart is and what the horse is on that -- it depends on the player. And it's still ultimately on the coaches for going away from the hard-nosed approach that was on it's way to winning a title with Lane Burroughs here in order to chase Perfect Game all-stars under Mingione...

And as you know, a lot of it is talent. Talented players tend to be more confident- for obvious reasons. And coaches tend to be more confident in confident players- which means asking them to bunt less.

I don't know that it's going after the PG All-Stars as much as it is trying to rely too much on JUCO guys when we should have been going after high school guys or just pool our scholarship money. When over half of your signing class is JUCO's- that's too many.

We're doing pretty well with recruiting speed and power arms- I think we can get a few in this class and that is getting better. I think we need to re-evaluate how we recruit power. We need to be looking more at guys like Hunter Renfroe and Brent Rooker- guys that were raw and can be developed and therefore weren't major draft risks as opposed to relying so much on elite power hitters to come to school like Pickett and Riley. Now- don't get me wrong, we absolutely should continue to take commitments and recruit guys like Pickett and Riley. But they shouldn't be the main power guys in the class.

[msstate7]

Do we have a lh power bat coming in? Desparately need one to put between Collins, hump, and rooker next season

[Todd4State]

Do we have a lh power bat coming in? Desparately need one to put between Collins, hump, and rooker next season

Nate Lowe- JUCO first baseman. Last I saw he had 16 home runs and was hitting .387 in the Florida JUCO leagues- one of the better JUCO leagues out there. The only other realistic option is Cole Gordon. Pickett is a LH power bat, but he ain't coming.

[msstate7]

Nate Lowe- JUCO first baseman. Last I saw he had 16 home runs and was hitting .387 in the Florida JUCO leagues- one of the better JUCO leagues out there. The only other realistic option is Cole Gordon. Pickett is a LH power bat, but he ain't coming.

Nice numbers. I hope it translates well. I would like a lineup like this...

Robson (if back)
Brown
Collins
Hump
Lowe
Rooker
Holland (if back)
3b
Gridley

[Todd4State]

Also, may be random but we need to ditch the Adidas bats. May or may not have anything to do with anything. But with bats I at least want the comfort of going with something name brand that is reliable like Easton or Louisville Slugger.

[Todd4State]

Nice numbers. I hope it translates well. I would like a lineup like this...

Robson (if back)
Brown
Collins
Hump
Lowe
Rooker
Holland (if back)
3b
Gridley

Always expect JUCO numbers to be a lot less. I think Lowe would translate out to 6-8 home runs and .270-.290 realistically. He used to play at Mercer, so at least he has some D-I experience.

I'm not even going to guess what Cohen's lineup will look like ever but...

C- Collins
1B- Even with Lowe, Rooker still is my frontrunner.
2B- Gridley
3B- Riley
SS- Alexander
LF- Michael Smith
CF- Robson
RF- Cody Brown
DH- Humphreys- have to wonder if he doesn't get moved to third if Riley goes pro.

[smootness]

Pickett isn't coming, but a guy like that isn't going to show up anywhere. Same with a guy like Chase Vallot.

In college baseball, you're just not going to get a guy who would be a 1st or 2nd rounder unless you're Vandy or the kid has just grown up wanting to play for you. Especially when those guys are power hitters.

We just have to get quality bats (Marrero and Stovall are absolutely that) and some high-ceiling arms (we have a crap ton in this class) and develop them. Our problem this year seems to be that our more experienced players just aren't that talented, and our talented players aren't that experienced and haven't put it together last year.

I still think we'll be good next year. One down year doesn't mean you blow up everything about the program. Our recruiting continues to improve. So far, this year is just a blip. If it continues next year, you have a problem. If it doesn't, you're fine.

[engie]

Also, may be random but we need to ditch the Adidas bats. May or may not have anything to do with anything. But with bats I at least want the comfort of going with something name brand that is reliable like Easton or Louisville Slugger.

Yep. I was fired up about the early reports of the prototype bats -- many of which came from people not associated with nor invested in seeing MSU do well. Seems when Adidas started ramping up for mass production sometime after that first fall with them, they cut the nuts off the bats in fear of failed BBCOR tests really messing them up from a manufacturing standpoint. They may not be any worse than anything else -- but it's safe to say at this point that they are not superior, as was initially alleged and widely believed(by me when about as well-connected of OM guy as one can be was telling me about it)...

[Jacksondevildog]

No way Holland doesn't play next year. IMO.

[RocketCityDawg]

Also, may be random but we need to ditch the Adidas bats. May or may not have anything to do with anything. But with bats I at least want the comfort of going with something name brand that is reliable like Easton or Louisville Slugger.

I've heard that Cohen is strongly considering dumping the Adidas bats and going with Easton.

[War Machine Dawg]

I've heard that Cohen is strongly considering dumping the Adidas bats and going with Easton.

We dumped Easton to go to Adidas. F both of them. Switch to Louisville Slugger, dammit. There's a reason most of the top teams are using LS.

[Todd4State]

We dumped Easton to go to Adidas. F both of them. Switch to Louisville Slugger, dammit. There's a reason most of the top teams are using LS.

This is incorrect. I'll let you infer as to the real reason why we went with Adidas.

[Oxdawg]

This is incorrect. I'll let you infer as to the real reason why we went with Adidas.

$200,000-$250,000 reasons.

[Todd4State]

$200,000-$250,000 reasons.

Yep. Same reason why we go along with wearing some of the "uniforms" we do as well.

[War Machine Dawg]

This is incorrect. I'll let you infer as to the real reason why we went with Adidas.

Doesn't change the FACT that we were an Easton team first. In case you forgot, EASTON not Adidas, built our infield practice area. We were a huge priority for them, signing to at that time the biggest bat contract on record. Adidas may have given us more, but the fact still remains we left Easton for Adidas. And frankly, I think both suck. Louisville Slugger is the way to go.

[ScottH]

LSU and Vandy use DeMarini as best I can tell from TV.

[smootness]

Doesn't change the FACT that we were an Easton team first. In case you forgot, EASTON not Adidas, built our infield practice area. We were a huge priority for them, signing to at that time the biggest bat contract on record. Adidas may have given us more, but the fact still remains we left Easton for Adidas. And frankly, I think both suck. Louisville Slugger is the way to go.

I'm assuming that using Adidas' bats was somehow part of the deal of them making us their #1 baseball school. That may be enough of a negative to have not made the deal worth it, but it's tough to tell.

I have no idea if the bats are better or worse. It definitely isn't that big a difference one way or another.

[thf24]

I tend to slide back and forth on the bat argument based on the most recent observations and analysis, but in the back of my mind I always have trouble believing that in this day and age every company's bat isn't engineered to be as effective as the rules allow.

[Todd4State]

Doesn't change the FACT that we were an Easton team first. In case you forgot, EASTON not Adidas, built our infield practice area. We were a huge priority for them, signing to at that time the biggest bat contract on record. Adidas may have given us more, but the fact still remains we left Easton for Adidas. And frankly, I think both suck. Louisville Slugger is the way to go.

You need to take that up with Scott. It doesn't matter to me if we're Easton, Louisville Slugger, or DeMarini- we should use a reputable brand whatever it is. And Adidas isn't a reputable brand when it comes to baseball bats.

It's sad that in baseball we put Adidas over what is best for our baseball program- whether that is bats or literally embarrassing uniforms like the practice jersey that was totally unacceptable on so many levels.

And yes, I'm sure that they have been good to us in many ways- but moreso in other sports and maybe the most in basketball. But we're not going to make our basketball team wear Louisville Slugger basketball shoes. Adidas has also done very many unpopular things as well in all of our sports.

And then we get the lame excuses from Scott like "the players like them", "the players think it's more comfortable than the uniforms that the fans like", "we look like those great Phillies teams in the 80's" and "Adidas couldn't make the white version of the throwback uniform in one week",

[Todd4State]

I tend to slide back and forth on the bat argument based on the most recent observations and analysis, but in the back of my mind I always have trouble believing that in this day and age every company's bat isn't engineered to be as effective as the rules allow.

Baseball bats are just like everything else on the market. Some are just higher quality than others.

[Todd4State]

LSU and Vandy use DeMarini as best I can tell from TV.

I actually prefer DeMarini personally if I had to choose, but I'm not hung up on it either. As long as it is a reputable brand.

[ScottH]

Contracts aside, does a team have to use the same bat?

Or could they mix and match?

[smootness]

Every team uses the bats they use because of the money they're getting from the bat company.

[Todd4State]

Contracts aside, does a team have to use the same bat?

Or could they mix and match?

I'm pretty sure most teams have to use bats from whomever the team contract is with. I suppose it's possible for a school to have more than one contract, although I don't think that's common.

[War Machine Dawg]

You need to take that up with Scott. It doesn't matter to me if we're Easton, Louisville Slugger, or DeMarini- we should use a reputable brand whatever it is. And Adidas isn't a reputable brand when it comes to baseball bats.

It's sad that in baseball we put Adidas over what is best for our baseball program- whether that is bats or literally embarrassing uniforms like the practice jersey that was totally unacceptable on so many levels.

And yes, I'm sure that they have been good to us in many ways- but moreso in other sports and maybe the most in basketball. But we're not going to make our basketball team wear Louisville Slugger basketball shoes. Adidas has also done very many unpopular things as well in all of our sports.

And then we get the lame excuses from Scott like "the players like them", "the players think it's more comfortable than the uniforms that the fans like", "we look like those great Phillies teams in the 80's" and "Adidas couldn't make the white version of the throwback uniform in one week",

Agree with every word. If this is how Adidas treats it's #1 baseball school, then screw them. Yeah, they helped us with Howland and seem to be making us a basketball priority. But I'd bet dollars to donuts we'll wind up wearing some clown uniform in basketball now, too. Seems like the more "preferential" treatment we get from Adidas, the worse they are.

[HailState13]

nm

[HancockCountyDog]

I'm past giving a dang about ratings. I want to get back to recruiting hard-nosed players that never, ever quit and fight to the very end. We may have upgraded "talent" -- but we've downgraded mental capability. We've lost our identity somewhere along the way here...

Engie, I've talked to a few local coaches and guys that talk to scouts regularly and Im not so sure we have all this "talent" that people think are underperforming. Scouts are telling local coaches that all three schools (USM, MSU, bears) are lacking in MLB talent. The best players on the bears Orvis, Trent, Bramlett, and Weathersby are all college players. Trent may get drafted, but it won't be top 5 rounds.

On our team, I don't see a single player that is a top 5 round pick in this year's class or next years. Some say Gavin Collins, and I know he is hurt, but I don't see an Ed Easley skill set with Gavin.

Maybe there is a pitcher on our team that will progress and be a top 150 pick next year, but I know there isn't one on the roster that is draft eligible this year, and Im not positive there is one for next year either.

I just don't think we are all that talented. In baseball, talented players eventually show up. That is the great thing about baseball. The more talented team ends up on top by the end of the season almost 80% of the time. I just don't see the talent, and I don't think MLB does either.

[maroonmania]

I'm pretty sure most teams have to use bats from whomever the team contract is with. I suppose it's possible for a school to have more than one contract, although I don't think that's common.

Are most other Adidas schools using Adidas bats? Has TA&M been using them? TN? Others outside the SEC? If TA&M has been using them they don't seem to be having any problems with them.

[ScottH]

Are most other Adidas schools using Adidas bats? Has TA&M been using them? TN? Others outside the SEC? If TA&M has been using them they don't seem to be having any problems with them.

TN uses DeMarini

[bgover4]

from pics on google it looks like A&M is using easton

[maroonmania]

So apparently we are one of the very few Adidas schools actually willing to use Adidas bats.