Game of Thrones - season 5 TELEVISION show thread

[BulldogBear]

I finished up my own 40 episode marathon re-watch last night. I'm ready for the season premier tonight!

Now, to get thru the day. Fixing to head to church, then got softball game and baseball game to get me by.

Anybody else do a marathon?

Kungh!!!

[FlabLoser]

No time for a marathon. Wish they would do a refresher show so I could remember what the 48 characters and 17 side plots were about.

[JohnnyQuid]

Just down loaded the first 4 episodes of season 5 off my torrent site. Bout to start ep1 now!!

[BulldogBear]

Just down loaded the first 4 episodes of season 5 off my torrent site. Bout to start ep1 now!!

No spoilers beyond ep1

Not everyone on here that follows the show has read the books!

[BulldogBear]

Nice Maggie the Frog flashback. For book readers, notice they didn't reveal a certain Topic that was discussed at that juncture

[War Machine Dawg]

Drawing a blank, Bear. Guess I need to go over to awoiaf for a Maggie refresher.

[mcain31]

Drawing a blank, Bear. Guess I need to go over to awoiaf for a Maggie refresher.

She is the fortune teller

[Political Hack]

I can't keep all of the characters' names straight, but still love watching it. Dragon Queen and Little Lanister are by far the most compelling characters to me. Interested to see what happens when they meet.

[Political Hack]

I like the Hound too now, but he may have expired... at least for a while. I doubt he reemerges quickly even if he is alive. Now that he's separated from the Stark girl there's no real story line that needs him.

[War Machine Dawg]

She is the fortune teller

I meant I was drawing a blank on the part of Maggy's prophecy that was left out. I knew exactly who Maggy was. And now I remember the part that was left out. Very interesting they chose to omit that.

[War Machine Dawg]

I like the Hound too now, but he may have expired... at least for a while. I doubt he reemerges quickly even if he is alive. Now that he's separated from the Stark girl there's no real story line that needs him.


I'm almost 100% certain the Hound is dead. He had become one of my favorite characters, but he was also totally expendable.

[JohnnyQuid]

I meant I was drawing a blank on the part of Maggy's prophecy that was left out. I knew exactly who Maggy was. And now I remember the part that was left out. Very interesting they chose to omit that.

the valonqar bit?

[BulldogBear]

the valonqar bit?

Yes!

[War Machine Dawg]

the valonqar bit?


Yes!


Hope that doesn't mean anything for her long term future. I've been rooting for Tyrion to kill her for ages. He's earned it.

[DanDority]

I'm sure I'm in the minority but I do not want Dany to become queen of Westeros.

[curmudgeon]

I cheated and watched the first four episodes. Episode 3 is going to piss off book readers.

[BulldogBear]

I cheated and watched the first four episodes. Episode 3 is going to piss off book readers.
Must be the book POV character early death scenario. I still don't know who it is don't want to, but I have some suspicions.

[War Machine Dawg]

I cheated and watched the first four episodes. Episode 3 is going to piss off book readers.

Ugh, don't tell me that. I've got the first 4 eps too. Just gotta watch them.

[DanDority]

Someone tell me, is Gendry still alive?

[BulldogBear]

Ugh, don't tell me that. I've got the first 4 eps too. Just gotta watch them.

Remind me how ya'll have the first four.

[JohnnyQuid]

Remind me how ya'll have the first four.

pirated on torrent sites. watched first 4 also. i believe they had released 4 episodes to be reviewed and they got leaked by someone

[War Machine Dawg]

pirated on torrent sites. watched first 4 also. i believe they had released 4 episodes to be reviewed and they got leaked by someone

Same here.

[engie]

Pretty sure he's alive and with the Brotherhood Without Banners

[BulldogBear]

I'm sure I'm in the minority but I do not want Dany to become queen of Westeros.

I waver on Danaerys, mainly because one of my theories is that in the endgame she'll be either already dead or on the "wrong" side. See book theories thread (spoiler warning) for more on that To come.

Gendry is still alive but he us now really in the role of another character (also Robert's bastard) named Edric Storm.

[Cabo32]

http://www.watch-tvseries.net/series104/Game-of-Thrones/

[DanDority]

I waver on Danaerys, mainly because one of my theories is that in the endgame she'll be either already dead or on the "wrong" side. See book theories thread (spoiler warning) for more on that To come.

Gendry is still alive but he us now really in the role of another character (also Robert's bastard) named Edric Storm.

Thanks, I can't remember all the angles in this story, also thanks engine, I don't know how to do a multiple quote post.

[engie]

Remember in the TV series Greatjon Umbee was dispatched to find Greywater Watch prior to the Red Wedding, so he's alive and free in the TV world. With the show sending Rickon to Last Hearth(ancestral home and stronghold of the Umbers), it's pretty safe to say Greatjon has a big role left to play...

[FlabLoser]

I cheated and watched the first four episodes. Episode 3 is going to piss off book readers.

Please no comments about books in this thread.

[mparkerfd20]

I can't believe that dragon ate Tyrion. He was my favorite character.**





















EDIT: I'm just kidding guys!

[Political Hack]

Haven't read the books, but I watched the episode last night. pretty sure that was her dragon saying goodbye. I think the paralyzed boy eventually controls the dragon(s). Be interesting to see who he aligns with (which army), but I think we're shaping up for a battle between the dragon queen/tyrian and the dragon boy-to-be.

The Stark girl story lines have gotten boring to me. I don't know what they're doing or where they're going, but they're just traveling with no purpose.

[engie]

Drogon will be back with a vengeance in Meereen...

[FlabLoser]

That's a lackluster last couple of episodes. Lots of character development setting up, I suppose.

Tyrion sweet talks up a whore in a brothel, then decides he can't get it up. Really? Weak. Jorah just happens to be in the same brothel that Tyrion decided to visit? Weak.

Jorah says he's taking Tyrion to the queen. But which queen? I assume he meant Cersei. Margaery could have an interesting opinion about that. He could have meant Denarius.

[Uncle Ruckus]

i won't spoil anything for people who haven't read the book, but this season, more than any before, has really deviated from the books. I'm very interested to see how things tie together. No idea where they're going with the Sansa storyline. I'm guessing Littlefinger has her in place to marry Ramsey, rally the northern lords together like during Roberts rebellion and have the Boltons murdered somehow by using Sansa so he'd effectively be in control or the Erie and Winterfell, basically controlling the north. Will Brienne find confront her in Winterfell and Sansa go L.S. on her and Pod? When will we see Robert Strong? Is Jamie or Bronn replacing Oakheart? Is the confrontation between Hotah and Oakheart's replacement going to happen? Is Jorah going to take Connington's spot in Tyrions man overboard mishap? Is the curly headed dude Hizdar Zo Loraq? Was that Rattleshirt? If not will Brienne replace ***** in rescuing 'Jeyne'?

[Uncle Ruckus]

That's a lackluster last couple of episodes. Lots of character development setting up, I suppose.

Tyrion sweet talks up a whore in a brothel, then decides he can't get it up. Really? Weak. Jorah just happens to be in the same brothel that Tyrion decided to visit? Weak.

Jorah says he's taking Tyrion to the queen. But which queen? I assume he meant Cersei. Margaery could have an interesting opinion about that. He could have meant Denarius.
I won't spoil which queen it is, but that's how they meet up in the books, although Tyrion gets there under very different circumstances. I told myself I'd read the books after the series, well I couldn't wait and read them between seasons. I wish I hadn't know because I'm going to be comparing and critiquing and not letting myself enjoy it for what it is.

[tcdog70]

This season has several things different from the book/ the deal with Sansa is different.

[Cabo32]

The curly head guy is hizdar zo loraq

If I had to guess..I would think bronn has replaced oakheart..for the fact that he has pretty much became a fan favorite..so..wellll..you know

Was that rattleshirt...I really hope so

[FlabLoser]

Just saw Sunday's episode. I swear if they killed off Tyrion, I was gonna cancel HBO. Damn that was close.

[Cabo32]

Just saw Sunday's episode. I swear if they killed off Tyrion, I was gonna cancel HBO. Damn that was close.

Yeah..I don't think that is going to happen..GRRM seems to love the characters that have to overcome adversities

I thought that was a cool scene when they were in valyria..had a feeling jorah would get touched

[BulldogBear]

For those who need a(nother) reason to dislike Collin Cowturd... today on his show he ripped Game of Thrones and at one point compared it to Harry Potter with women.

[Uncle Ruckus]

I said it on 4-27, just a few post up, that he would get it. With all the talk of it this season and Griff being absent you knew it was coming.

[dickiedawg]

He compared it to the best selling book series of all time? Neat.

[Cabo32]

Well that last scene was pretty much the worst of the series...

I'm guessing Bronn is finished..which, if that's the case..so is much of my interest in the show...dammit I hate that they kill the best characters

[engie]

This season has been shit...

"We are making Sansa a player -- so let's send her to the one place worse for her than King's Landing, give her a couple snazzy lines, and then let Ramsay Bolton rape her. That'll show her prowess." You can't give back what they took from her as a character tonight. Too stupid to actually pull for.

6 episodes in -- and zero glances at the endgame. Oh, I take it back -- Stannis talked to Sam about dragonglass. Bunch of bs with nothing really happening.

[BulldogBear]

This season has been shit...

"We are making Sansa a player -- so let's send her to the one place worse for her than King's Landing, give her a couple snazzy lines, and then let Ramsay Bolton rape her. That'll show her prowess." You can't give back what they took from her as a character tonight. Too stupid to actually pull for.

6 episodes in -- and zero glances at the endgame. Oh, I take it back -- Stannis talked to Sam about dragonglass. Bunch of bs with nothing really happening.

Yeah, my wife, who hasn't read the books, said she is done with the show after Sansa was raped. I'm sure Theons storyline here will remain intact, but I wonder if Stannis is still gonna stop by Deepwood Motte?

[engie]

"Yara" Greyjoy is supposed to be in next week's episode. Don't remember if she's in Deepwood Motte in the show or not, but it seems pretty safe to assume that her/theon's storylines are staying.

Sansa needs to be serving Ramsey pie in the next episode for that whole thing to have made any sense whatsoever.

[curmudgeon]

Sand Sankes sucked last night. They are supposed to be bad ass. Of course in the books, they are plotting to put the princess on the throne, not kill her.

I knew what was coming up with Sansa (Jenye) last night and it still made me sick at my stomach. I'm glad they left out Reek's part in it.

[engie]

Sand Sankes sucked last night. They are supposed to be bad ass. Of course in the books, they are plotting to put the princess on the throne, not kill her.

I knew what was coming up with Sansa (Jenye) last night and it still made me sick at my stomach. I'm glad they left out Reek's part in it.

They are destroying everything this season. The concision that has made the show enjoyable(if still less than the books) is gone. Now it seems to be just a bunch of pointless, rampant "shock" moments that do nothing to serve the plot. We know they are possibly important to the endgame, since they stayed in, but if we've got characters making 180s and plotlines being completely pointless(Sansa in the Eyrie for instance), then are they really important?

Why kill off Barristan?
Why completely change the characterization of Ellaria? Her anti-vengeance role in the books fit her early characterization. This "I'm pissed off and we're going to kill this girl" doesn't make a damn bit of sense.
Why send Sansa to Winterfell by herself in order to be a victim again? She had the whole f'n Vale behind her. She was in a position of power. Now, she's back to being a victim.
Why send Jamie to Dorne? Cersei thinking oh, hey, we've been at war for years -- I'm going to totally piss off our strongest/only real allies, without a single true military commander still under my command(Kevan basically having already told her to F off) so let me send my only true ally who is a pin stroke from Tommen away from being Warden of the West and Lord of Casterly Rock as far away from here as I possibly can. That'll show them".

The show has been interesting to me because the maneuvering almost always made common sense. Now, I'm not seeing it.

Sand Snakes are a horrible bit of casting. I have enjoyed Areo Hotah's representation though...

[curmudgeon]

I think we will end up seeing Sansa take her revenge from her post. Someone else on here posted one time and I agree - Bran Stark ends up being the ultimate villain in all of this.

[engie]

I think the "bittersweet" ending is that we will get the Starks reunited, but they will all be "broken" in their own ways. Bran will be the quintessential Stark, as Bloodraven was the quintessential and unapologetic Targ. Made questionable decisions for the greater good even when he knew they would punish him and vilify him for it.

Think the theme of the whole story is that there is no pure good or evil. You have Fire vs Ice -- and they will essentially be two sides of the same coin. Its crazy that a story like this is 75%ish told -- and no one has a clue where it is actually going to end up...

[BoomBoom]

They are destroying everything this season. The concision that has made the show enjoyable(if still less than the books) is gone. Now it seems to be just a bunch of pointless, rampant "shock" moments that do nothing to serve the plot. We know they are possibly important to the endgame, since they stayed in, but if we've got characters making 180s and plotlines being completely pointless(Sansa in the Eyrie for instance), then are they really important?

Why kill off Barristan?
Why completely change the characterization of Ellaria? Her anti-vengeance role in the books fit her early characterization. This "I'm pissed off and we're going to kill this girl" doesn't make a damn bit of sense.
Why send Sansa to Winterfell by herself in order to be a victim again? She had the whole f'n Vale behind her. She was in a position of power. Now, she's back to being a victim.
Why send Jamie to Dorne? Cersei thinking oh, hey, we've been at war for years -- I'm going to totally piss off our strongest/only real allies, without a single true military commander still under my command(Kevan basically having already told her to F off) so let me send my only true ally who is a pin stroke from Tommen away from being Warden of the West and Lord of Casterly Rock as far away from here as I possibly can. That'll show them".

The show has been interesting to me because the maneuvering almost always made common sense. Now, I'm not seeing it.

Sand Snakes are a horrible bit of casting. I have enjoyed Areo Hotah's representation though...

the sad result is how typical TV production tropes have taken precedence over the outline they were given. they knew 5 years before they started that Theon would have no story for a couple of seasons, yet when they signed an unknown for the part they didn't write that into the contract, and thus had to create pointless scenes for him to keep him under contract?? you knew Lady Stoneheart required relegating a character to nothing for a season, and you didn't plan on it?? you couldn't film it while under contract and air it later? are you kidding me? and so forth. bottom line they produced it like a typical show. for a couple seasons the source material outshined that limitation, but starting with the 2nd season finale it did not. they have planned within the season only, like a typical show, not with forethought like they should have. hence Sansa taking one turn at the end of season 4 and a complete 180 in season 5. they didn't think ahead to season 5! i'm currently wondering how the Cersei walking scene comes to be. the setup for it isn't there at all. will probably be some stupid one-off reason rather than the 2 seasons of lead up it could have been.

[engie]

IMO Cersei is going to walk because fanatic Lancel is about to spill the beans.

One thing I saw online and liked -- the pendant that sent Jamie scrambling to Dorne may be Cersei's and not Myrcela's. If Myr still has hers, Jamie will know Cersei manipulated him for her own ends, at which point he probably starts asking Bronn questions he doesn't want the true answer to, and sets events in motion for his abandonment of her. Cersei and to a lesser degree Tyrion is all "show" Jamie has ever fought for -- what is his motivation for staying alive and what is the point in his character when that is gone?

[Tbonewannabe]

IMO Cersei is going to walk because fanatic Lancel is about to spill the beans.

One thing I saw online and liked -- the pendant that sent Jamie scrambling to Dorne may be Cersei's and not Myrcela's. If Myr still has hers, Jamie will know Cersei manipulated him for her own ends, at which point he probably starts asking Bronn questions he doesn't want the true answer to, and sets events in motion for his abandonment of her. Cersei and to a lesser degree Tyrion is all "show" Jamie has ever fought for -- what is his motivation for staying alive and what is the point in his character when that is gone?

That never dawned on me. It makes sense because Cersei thinks she can rule without any help. With the Faith Militant she wouldn't want Jamie around. She may have just decided to get rid of a witness who could turn against her. Jamie freeing Tyrion who she thinks will try to kill her could have been unforgiveable.

[BulldogBear]

the sad result is how typical TV production tropes have taken precedence over the outline they were given. they knew 5 years before they started that Theon would have no story for a couple of seasons, yet when they signed an unknown for the part they didn't write that into the contract, and thus had to create pointless scenes for him to keep him under contract?? you knew Lady Stoneheart required relegating a character to nothing for a season, and you didn't plan on it?? you couldn't film it while under contract and air it later? are you kidding me? and so forth. bottom line they produced it like a typical show. for a couple seasons the source material outshined that limitation, but starting with the 2nd season finale it did not. they have planned within the season only, like a typical show, not with forethought like they should have. hence Sansa taking one turn at the end of season 4 and a complete 180 in season 5. they didn't think ahead to season 5! i'm currently wondering how the Cersei walking scene comes to be. the setup for it isn't there at all. will probably be some stupid one-off reason rather than the 2 seasons of lead up it could have been.

This^

They should've approached this whole thing with the idea that they were shooting one longa$$ movie that would be shown one episode at a time.

[BulldogBear]

"Yara" Greyjoy is supposed to be in next week's episode. Don't remember if she's in Deepwood Motte in the show or not, but it seems pretty safe to assume that her/theon's storylines are staying.

Sansa needs to be serving Ramsey pie in the next episode for that whole thing to have made any sense whatsoever.

"Yara" definitely was in Deepwood Motte after the North fell. Of course there was no rescue attempt in the book so she never left except for the moot. But in the show they showed her counseling with her Father back in the Iron Islands. I think it can be assumed that she probably returned to Deepwood Motte in the show. I can't really think of any reason for her to remain in the show continuity unless the Stannis-North storyline is going to go forward more or less normally.

[engie]

Well, The Gift was finally an excellent tv episode I thought. Still take issues with the premise that has put certain characters into their situations. But this one at least made most of those situations interesting.

[Tbonewannabe]

This episode was definitely one of the better ones this year. I am interested to see what they do with Sam and Gilly. They eliminated the plot line from the book so what are they going to do with them? Any time Tyrion is on seems to be the best scenes. I am very interested for how Dany handles having a Lannister in front of her.

[BulldogBear]

This episode was definitely one of the better ones this year. I am interested to see what they do with Sam and Gilly. They eliminated the plot line from the book so what are they going to do with them? Any time Tyrion is on seems to be the best scenes. I am very interested for how Dany handles having a Lannister in front of her.

If they are eliminating the Citadel storyline, then I would imagine it could be possible for Sam and Gilly to end up on some mission to Essos. Maybe they end up with Danaerys instead of in Oldtown? Take Maestor Aemon with them? She's his family.

[Tbonewannabe]

If they are eliminating the Citadel storyline, then I would imagine it could be possible for Sam and Gilly to end up on some mission to Essos. Maybe they end up with Danaerys instead of in Oldtown? Take Maestor Aemon with them? She's his family.

They burned his body so I don't know about that.

[BulldogBear]

They burned his body so I don't know about that.

Heh. That's what I get for posting before watching the latest episode!

Maybe a nice urn with a dragon and a crow combatant emblazened on it!?

[Tbonewannabe]

I think maybe Jon sends Sam to the Citadel before all hell breaks loose at the wall. I read where it looked like they were casting for OldTown which is where Sam was taking Gilly so they just probably eliminated the boat trip for them.

[engie]

Now THAT was an episode! Wow my adrenaline is pumping. Prettymuch jumped out of my seat when the magic of Valyrian Steel was finally proven true. That was extremely well done. First real spoiler from Winds of Winter, I believe...

[BulldogBear]

Now THAT was an episode! Wow my adrenaline is pumping. Prettymuch jumped out of my seat when the magic of Valyrian Steel was finally proven true. That was extremely well done. First real spoiler from Winds of Winter, I believe...

I just watched it on Dvr. Very cool to see purpose of valerian steel confirmed. Long suspected but not yet confirmed in books. Makes me wonder if the whole hardhome sequence is moved up. Wonder if it will go down like that in WoW. Great episode. Glad to see the Others finally get scary.

[FlabLoser]

Badass. I had been missing Walking Dead lately.

I'm rooting for two things: 1) for the Kaleesi/Tyrion camp, and 2) for people to stop talking about the books.

[BulldogBear]

Badass. I had been missing Walking Dead lately.

I'm rooting for two things: 1) for the Kaleesi/Tyrion camp, and 2) for people to stop talking about the books.

We kind of moved the discussion with spoilers over to the ASOIAF theory thread. Sorry Flab. ONe can get to commenting on the show and then launch right into something related from the books. I'm as guilty as any.

[Dawgology]

Badass. I had been missing Walking Dead lately.

I'm rooting for two things: 1) for the Kaleesi/Tyrion camp, and 2) for people to stop talking about the books.

I feel you on this one. I read the books (several times) and can't stop combining the two in discussion BUT....for the first time the series moved past the books (partially) in this episode created a new storyline in part. I FINALLY got to experience what the "non-book" people have been experiencing. It increased the enjoyment of this episode 100%. In fact, I will probably stop reading the books until the show comes to an end.

[War Machine Dawg]

Finally all caught up. The "Walker" kids were creepy as hell. But you had to know what's-her-face was dead the moment she told her daughter she had to go but she'd be back. Valyrian steel's purpose being revealed was cool, but not that surprising. Now the question is can they figure out how to make more or get as much of the existing Valyrian weapons to the Wall as fast as possible? The Hardhome sequence was epic, and the scenes with the giant made me laugh. The obsidian getting burned up sucks, but I don't see it as a big loss. I'll have to re-read, but I don't remember there being a big battle there in the books (sorry, Flab). Nice to see the actual Walkers start to become a real threat and get all sorts of creepy. The staredown with Jon at the end was awesome.

I was wondering if they were still going to send Sam to Old Town or not, but I lean toward the theory that John will send him away from the Wall at some point in these last two episodes. I'm still wondering what role Sam has to play in everything.

Freaking love the interactions between Tyrion and Dany. I just wonder what Jorah's game is. Is he going to attempt to assassinate her at the games? Lover scorned and all that jazz. Still can't wait to see her learn how to control the dragons and go back to Westeros. She's definitely the wild card in all of this, as she should arrive with a HUGE army of Unsullied, Essos commoners, sellswords, and Dothraki. As for Tyrion, he's in his element with the intrigues of court politics. It'll be interesting to see how he improves Dany's ability to rule and if he can figure out the Sons of the Harpy business.

I can't wait to see if Theon really does turn on Ramsay. I think Sansa is starting to break through his Reek identity and reaching what's left of Theon. And the battle at Winterfell between the Boltons and Stannis should be awesome, too.

As I said in the book thread, I'm not overly worried about the changes being made tv-versus-books. While they're definitely getting to the same ending, I think they will do it in relatively different fashions for several reasons. Among them is to keep book readers surprised, but also give us/them a reason to buy the books and read them after the show ends. GRRM isn't putting all the effort into some of the various book subplots just to torpedo them. Sansa and the Vale immediately come to mind. Plus, he can do things in the books that aren't very practical in a tv show format. The Arstan Whitebeard/Barristan Selmy gimmick is a good example. Think of it as driving to a destination but taking separate routes on the trip. Another reason there are so many changes is the sheer amount of minor characters and subplots. Some have to be combined, changed, or eliminated altogether for the tv show's budget to be even semi-reasonable. Having to cast so many little players just to kill them off in 2-3 episodes would get way too expensive in a big hurry. Personally, I expect I'll enjoy both versions for what they are.

[FlabLoser]

Wow. Danny T is officially a badass. And Stanis is a monster.

And John Snow breathed a sigh of relief. I thought for a second the wouldn't be let inside.

[mcain31]

That episode got me riled up. Somebody needs to kill Melisandre. She reminds me of the Evil Witch Queen from Kull the Conqueror

[FlabLoser]

You know nothing, John Snow. I figure Sam knew. That's why he left.

What army is circling Kaleesie?

Cersei Lanister. 😮

[BeardoMSU]

Cersei Lanister. ��

She used a body double, lol. Her face was CGI'd over the other person's.

I know, I'm a debby downer.

[Tbonewannabe]

It was interesting how Sam going to the Citadel was backwards from the book. Jon had to convince Sam to leave and get Gilly away from the wall but tonight Sam was begging Jon to leave. Same thing happened but interesting to see a difference from the book and show. I guess without the other baby at the wall in the book it changes the situation.

[Cabo32]

That was the dothraki army

[mparkerfd20]

Kit says he ain't coming back. So, so much for the Jon Snow theory maybe....http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

[mcain31]

It was reported that Kit has already renegotiated his contract for season 7.

[mparkerfd20]

Guess we'll have to wait 2 years. Consensus is he won't return for season 6.

[FlabLoser]

I half expected dead Snow's eyes to suddenly turn blue, indicating he's being re-animated by a white walker.

[Tbonewannabe]

Supposedly Martin now has 2 people helping him with the book. He should get book 6 out but unless he completely changes how he writes, the remake of the show will come out before he finishes book 7 or 8. Whichever he ends on.

[tcdog70]

Kit says he ain't coming back. So, so much for the Jon Snow theory maybe....http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

the last word he said was GHOST-he warged into Ghost. Might come back in a different body. thus a new actor.

[drunkernhelldawg]

She used a body double, lol. Her face was CGI'd over the other person's.

I know, I'm a debby downer.

Makes me lose a lot of respect for her as an actress.

[Tbonewannabe]

Makes me lose a lot of respect for her as an actress.

I think she was noticeably pregnant so a body double was necessary. Seems I heard that anyway.

[Tbonewannabe]

the last word he said was GHOST-he warged into Ghost. Might come back in a different body. thus a new actor.

I really don't know how that would work. Bran is really strong and he only basically does it to Hodor who is simply minded. I would think it would be harder to take over someone's body who fought it.

[War Machine Dawg]

Supposedly Martin now has 2 people helping him with the book. He should get book 6 out but unless he completely changes how he writes, the remake of the show will come out before he finishes book 7 or 8. Whichever he ends on.

Or 9 or 10. He needs an editor in the worst ****ing way. His endless manuscript shit wouldn't happen on my watch. I'd kick his ass to get it done and get the books out at a reasonable pace.

That said, unless I dreamed it, seems like I remember reading an article within the last few weeks that said as of now they plan to have TWoW out before Season 6 starts next season. No specific release date was mentioned, but it certainly sounded like it would happen, barring any major setbacks. Of course, with GRRM, that's entirely possible.

[Tbonewannabe]

I read somewhere that he was trying to hit January before the show.

[Dawgology]

I read somewhere that he was trying to hit January before the show.

I read that somewhere to but I'm not holding my breath. I have been reading this series forever and he is the worst to promise a general release time and then fail to meet his deadline. From what I understand the last book was basically forced out by the publisher. He has WAY to many side projects and spends most of his time at scifi-fantasy conferences. I can imagine the TV show has just pushed him further back. I fully expect the TV show to end LOnG before the last book is out...if it EVER actually comes out...dude isn't exactly in good health...

[Tbonewannabe]

Hopefully with the show pushing him, he will actually get the book out. As much as everyone wants him to finish it, he has a lot of different things coming out. I wonder if he is dragging this shit out just to stay in the spotlight. He loves being famous.

[Tbonewannabe]

So apparently Jon Snow is in Belfast with the rest of the cast that film there. Doesn't prove he isn't dead or comes back to life but he is at least filming some scenes which could be flash back. I personally think Red Priestess brings him back to life.

[Just This Once]

So apparently Jon Snow is in Belfast with the rest of the cast that film there. Doesn't prove he isn't dead or comes back to life but he is at least filming some scenes which could be flash back. I personally think Red Priestess brings him back to life.

She did flee Stannis' camp to get back to the Wall...

[Cabo32]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s8L51JvwaVo

There goes my theory that Arthur Dayne is still alive

[BulldogBear]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s8L51JvwaVo

There goes my theory that Arthur Dayne is still alive

Because he's not!!! Rhaegar lives!!!

[engie]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s8L51JvwaVo

There goes my theory that Arthur Dayne is still alive

Ashara is the questionmark IMO

[Cabo32]

Because he's not!!! Rhaegar lives!!!

"He would have killed me, if not for howland reed"...didn't think they would have howland reed stab Dayne in the back.

[BulldogBear]

"He would have killed me, if not for howland reed"...didn't think they would have howland reed stab Dayne in the back.

Is it possible this is red herring?

[engie]

ttt... 2 weeks from today...

Has all of the ingredients to be the best season yet.

Bastard Bowl
Back to River Run
Stark reunion(s)
Quiet Isle
Kings Landing
Kingsmoot
Oldtown

[Cabo32]

The trailers have me pumped. Tower of joy scene is gonna be badass

[BulldogBear]

See....here's the thing. I'm not pumped. That may come as a surprise to y'all, but instead I'm pissed. Parts of me want to scream that letting the show get ahead of GRRM is 50 shades or irresponsible. I want to read the book first. I don't want to learn stuff ahead of time. Now, that is simply a preference of course and of course everyone hasn't read the books and will therefore see the whole situation differently. I know WMD, engie, Dawgology, Tbone, Shelton, Cabo, Ruckus, BoomBoom, and others I'm not thinking of at the moment have read the series. I think tcdog and mcain31 have as well. How do y'all feel about the show going forward?

One reason I haven't expounded on my theories any more or on any more discussion from this great thread:

http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?17348-A-Song-of-Ice-and-Fire-Theories-Thread-**SPOILERS**-for-Game-of-Thrones-Show

....is that I've just lost some of the fire for it because of this crap. I feel like the show will be very different from the books going forward so I'm not sure what we can take from it. And the reason I'm pissed is that I think that's what GRRM has in mind!!!!! One reason we have all the red herring and loose ends in the books is because he so very much wants to surprise everyone with the ending. But when you drag it out for what is now DECADES, people figure stuff out. He has admitted to changing the ending many times because of this. He says he's just sticking with it as it is now, but I believe that "Skipper" is letting the show go forward so he can "surprise" everyone with the ending of the book. What I mean is as if you were to watch "the movie" about the Civil War and Union wins, but you go read "the book" about the Civil War and confederacy wins. I think he's gonna totally deviate from the show so he can have his blinking "Ahah" moment. And I just think that's boiling over into general douchebaggery. When you drag it out for twenty blinkin' years, of course some folks are going to figure it out GRRM!

In this case I consider the book to be canon. It seems that whatever is the original media is the canon and anything else is just artistic license. Much like in Star Wars, the ultimate canon is the movies. I'm really half tempted to watch the show and not buy/read his 17ing books. If he wants the show to get ahead of him, then by Mullen, the show shall be declared canon and we don't need your blasted late-a$$ books.

I can't decide which to do. Watch the show and just to hell with GRRM or wait around to read the books first in which case he'll probably die before he can publish them.

[War Machine Dawg]

See....here's the thing. I'm not pumped. That may come as a surprise to y'all, but instead I'm pissed. Parts of me want to scream that letting the show get ahead of GRRM is 50 shades or irresponsible. I want to read the book first. I don't want to learn stuff ahead of time. Now, that is simply a preference of course and of course everyone hasn't read the books and will therefore see the whole situation differently. I know WMD, engie, Dawgology, Tbone, Shelton, Cabo, Ruckus, BoomBoom, and others I'm not thinking of at the moment have read the series. I think tcdog and mcain31 have as well. How do y'all feel about the show going forward?

One reason I haven't expounded on my theories any more or on any more discussion from this great thread:

http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?17348-A-Song-of-Ice-and-Fire-Theories-Thread-**SPOILERS**-for-Game-of-Thrones-Show

....is that I've just lost some of the fire for it because of this crap. I feel like the show will be very different from the books going forward so I'm not sure what we can take from it. And the reason I'm pissed is that I think that's what GRRM has in mind!!!!! One reason we have all the red herring and loose ends in the books is because he so very much wants to surprise everyone with the ending. But when you drag it out for what is now DECADES, people figure stuff out. He has admitted to changing the ending many times because of this. He says he's just sticking with it as it is now, but I believe that "Skipper" is letting the show go forward so he can "surprise" everyone with the ending of the book. What I mean is as if you were to watch "the movie" about the Civil War and Union wins, but you go read "the book" about the Civil War and confederacy wins. I think he's gonna totally deviate from the show so he can have his blinking "Ahah" moment. And I just think that's boiling over into general douchebaggery. When you drag it out for twenty blinkin' years, of course some folks are going to figure it out GRRM!

In this case I consider the book to be canon. It seems that whatever is the original media is the canon and anything else is just artistic license. Much like in Star Wars, the ultimate canon is the movies. I'm really half tempted to watch the show and not buy/read his 17ing books. If he wants the show to get ahead of him, then by Mullen, the show shall be declared canon and we don't need your blasted late-a$$ books.

I can't decide which to do. Watch the show and just to hell with GRRM or wait around to read the books first in which case he'll probably die before he can publish them.

Totally feel where you're coming from, Bear. It sucks that his ass can't get the books out at a reasonable pace. If he has an editor, his editor sucks and needs to be fired. If he doesn't, he needs one yesterday. That said, last season put us ahead of the books on a couple of story lines.

I think we'll get to the same general ending, but I think "how" we get there could wind up being very different. We do know that GRRM has verbally told the producers the ending so they can finish the show if something ever happened to him. I think we'll get a couple of characters who are important in the books that aren't important to the show and vice versa. I think we all agree about Jon's heritage and he & Dany being the ultimate heroes of the story. And it's not really a spoiler if (when) Jon lives this season, because pretty much everyone has guessed he lives in the books, too. Hell, how they accomplish that is likely to be very different as well. I think we all expect Melisandre to play a part in the show, but she's nowhere near Castle Black in the books. She's out with Stannis fighting the Boltons.

I'll still read the books and enjoy them for this reason: GRRM can do things in the book that just aren't really practical for TV. Look at the Ser Baristan Selmy/Arstan Whitebeard arc. That was some epic storytelling in the books, but it was almost entirely cut from the show because everyone is going to recognize that Whitebeard is really Ser Baristan. Like you, I think I'll consider the books canon and GoT an adaptation. It just sucks that Fat Bastard isn't being made to stay ahead of the TV show. But as you point out, when you take a 10 year break between books and spend 20 years on the series as a whole....of course people are going to figure shit out and you're going to be behind any TV/movie deals you've made.

[Tbonewannabe]

See....here's the thing. I'm not pumped. That may come as a surprise to y'all, but instead I'm pissed. Parts of me want to scream that letting the show get ahead of GRRM is 50 shades or irresponsible. I want to read the book first. I don't want to learn stuff ahead of time. Now, that is simply a preference of course and of course everyone hasn't read the books and will therefore see the whole situation differently. I know WMD, engie, Dawgology, Tbone, Shelton, Cabo, Ruckus, BoomBoom, and others I'm not thinking of at the moment have read the series. I think tcdog and mcain31 have as well. How do y'all feel about the show going forward?

One reason I haven't expounded on my theories any more or on any more discussion from this great thread:

http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?17348-A-Song-of-Ice-and-Fire-Theories-Thread-**SPOILERS**-for-Game-of-Thrones-Show

....is that I've just lost some of the fire for it because of this crap. I feel like the show will be very different from the books going forward so I'm not sure what we can take from it. And the reason I'm pissed is that I think that's what GRRM has in mind!!!!! One reason we have all the red herring and loose ends in the books is because he so very much wants to surprise everyone with the ending. But when you drag it out for what is now DECADES, people figure stuff out. He has admitted to changing the ending many times because of this. He says he's just sticking with it as it is now, but I believe that "Skipper" is letting the show go forward so he can "surprise" everyone with the ending of the book. What I mean is as if you were to watch "the movie" about the Civil War and Union wins, but you go read "the book" about the Civil War and confederacy wins. I think he's gonna totally deviate from the show so he can have his blinking "Ahah" moment. And I just think that's boiling over into general douchebaggery. When you drag it out for twenty blinkin' years, of course some folks are going to figure it out GRRM!

In this case I consider the book to be canon. It seems that whatever is the original media is the canon and anything else is just artistic license. Much like in Star Wars, the ultimate canon is the movies. I'm really half tempted to watch the show and not buy/read his 17ing books. If he wants the show to get ahead of him, then by Mullen, the show shall be declared canon and we don't need your blasted late-a$$ books.

I can't decide which to do. Watch the show and just to hell with GRRM or wait around to read the books first in which case he'll probably die before he can publish them.

GRRM has already said he thought of a twist for the books that can't be done in the show because the person is dead in the show but not in the books. Maybe Rob's wife, that is the only person I can think of off the top of my head. I also like to read the books before watching the show but I will definitely watch the shows as they come out. At this point it has been so long since I read the books that I can't keep it straight in my head. I need to reread them but the books are so damn long it takes forever to finish it as GRRM talks about what they are eating for 3 pages.

[engie]

GRRM has already said he thought of a twist for the books that can't be done in the show because the person is dead in the show but not in the books. Maybe Rob's wife, that is the only person I can think of off the top of my head. I also like to read the books before watching the show but I will definitely watch the shows as they come out. At this point it has been so long since I read the books that I can't keep it straight in my head. I need to reread them but the books are so damn long it takes forever to finish it as GRRM talks about what they are eating for 3 pages.

They aren't the same person.

Barristan
Stannis
Shireen
Selyse
Mance
Greatjon(apparently)
Pyp and Grenn
Myranda(she's a Sansa competitor in the Vale in the books)
etc...

This is a huge divergence from the books. They aren't even the same thing anymore. This 10 hours is going to put them "within 10-13 hours" of a completed story. I felt like last season was a lot of filler -- but this year is going to get us to the end game prettymuch. It's going to close prettymuch all of the open storylines IMO -- many of which have been dangling prettymuch since the beginning.

[Tbonewannabe]

Well Sansa joining up with Brienne. I wonder where they go. Dorne is getting interesting but I honestly don't care about much else than the Wall. The red woman at the end, I can't decide if the necklace just makes her look young or if it makes her young. She looked very dejected when she saw Jon dead. Not sure if she was laying down to die at the end.

[mcain31]

All I've got to say is, "I wish I hadn't seen Melissandre's true form." I can't unsee that

[Uncle Ruckus]

They aren't the same person.

Barristan
Stannis
Shireen
Selyse
Mance
Greatjon(apparently)
Pyp and Grenn
Myranda(she's a Sansa competitor in the Vale in the books)
etc...

This is a huge divergence from the books. They aren't even the same thing anymore. This 10 hours is going to put them "within 10-13 hours" of a completed story. I felt like last season was a lot of filler -- but this year is going to get us to the end game prettymuch. It's going to close prettymuch all of the open storylines IMO -- many of which have been dangling prettymuch since the beginning.

You can add Doran, Myrcella, Hotah, Tystane, Lord of Bones, maybe Jogen for people dead on TV but not in books. Then there's just people that are flat out not in the show who could have big twist in Trystane, Jon Con, fAegon, Damphair, Victarion (biggest disappointment), Arianne. Then the people alive in the show but dead in books Pycelle and Kevan come to mind. Clearly there's going to be a huge deviation from the books. At this point I'm hoping that the end game is the only thing that is the same so when I'm reading in will be completely new to me.

[BulldogBear]

Y'all have probably gathered that I've chosen not to watch season 6, but I'll dialogue with y'all a couple of weeks because I doubt there'll be any major spoilers in the first 2-3 episodes that I haven't more or less guessed anyway, such as.....


All I've got to say is, "I wish I hadn't seen Melissandre's true form." I can't unsee that

^^^THIS. It doesn't bother me to read that because there are so many things in the books (and some in show as well) that point to the Rubies being associated with illusion. I don't consider what I already know to be a spoiler. Remember rubies are associated with illusion. Which is why the one that gets my vote is of course...


They aren't the same person.

Barristan
Stannis
Shireen
Selyse
Mance
Greatjon(apparently)
Pyp and Grenn
Myranda(she's a Sansa competitor in the Vale in the books)
etc...

This is a huge divergence from the books. They aren't even the same thing anymore. This 10 hours is going to put them "within 10-13 hours" of a completed story. I felt like last season was a lot of filler -- but this year is going to get us to the end game prettymuch. It's going to close prettymuch all of the open storylines IMO -- many of which have been dangling prettymuch since the beginning.

....Mance Rayder, aka Rhaegar Targaryen. "Mance" is still very much alive in the books, although the Boltons claim to have him and spearwives as prisoners in a letter (Whether or not it is to be believed is another thing). In this theory, the man killed at the Ruby Ford was Arthur Dayne posing as Rhaegar, something they were known to have done before. Plus all the Rubies. WHERE IS RHAEGAR'S BODY? IF THERE WAS A FUNERAL PYRE OR SOMETHING INSTEAD, WHY IS NO FUNERAL EVER MENTIONED? Because there was no body. When the rubies were scattered and somebody eventually took off the armor...ooops....that's not Rhaegar. But it was kept quiet. At the Tower of Joy it was mentioned when THEY found him (Ned). Who is they? Howland Reed, the only person left alive, is not a "they." Someone else was there. Rhaegar? It is the birth of his son, whom he believes is the Prince that was Promised and/or Azor Ahai. Perhaps Dayne was not killed after all, although Ned is saddened by his death. But when did he die? In this theory, it could be Dayne knew he had to die. He was in on Rhaegar's plan and there was no way he could "survive" the war. Some even believe that Mance is not who he seems and is in fact Dayne instead of Rhaegar. Either way, I do not believe Mance is just Mance. He is Rhaegar or Arthur Dayne. I'm fixing to have to go work. Maybe later this week I can gather all the clues as to Mance's true identity and put them in a single coherent post.

My second nomination would be Jojen Reed (aka Howland Reed). This was discussed some in a thread way back: http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?13827-Game-of-Thrones/page3

But I'm going to cut and paste the main quote here (from a post I made):


!!!!!SPOILER ALERT - MAY CONTAIN INFO FROM BOOKS NOT SHOWN IN TV SERIES YET OR AT ALL - SPOILER ALERT!!!!!

Okay Bulldragons, put on your tinfoil hats. This is why I theorize that Howland Reed is posing as his "son."


I could probably do this better when I re-read the series to get ready for release of TWOW but here goes. Jojen is odd. It is likewise odd that we haven't seen Howland Reed at all. The country is in turmoil. As close a friend as HR was to Ned, something isn't quite what it seems. I think that Jojen is Howland Reed, not Howland Reed's son. Howland Reed knew that Bran needs to get to the three-eyed crow. He is the one who had the dream of the fall of Winterfell in the book, not Bran. How is Jojen, a 12-13 year old boy teaching Bran how to warg? Jojen himself never alludes to having any warging or actual greenseeing abilities. He just says he has greendreams. The Crannogmen are mysteroius, not a whole lot is known about them. They are known to be small and who knows how they age or how much it shows. They may even be intermingled with Children of the Forest. The area they live in was flooded by the COF in an attempt to cut off the North from the rest of Westeros during their war with the first men. They may not be wargs themselves (The COF aren't) but have a load of ancient knowledge. Meera doesn't seem to have them but then she may not be a crannogman. There is another theory that suggest R+L = J&M!!!! Twins, seperated at birth ala Luke and Leia. Sometimes you can take clues from the tv series to learn things in the books. It's a different medium so you have to present info in different ways. The producers DO know the whole story as told them by GRRM in case of his premature death after all. Meera and Jon look similar in the show. But that's neither here nor there for this theory.

Frequently, Jojen is said to seem older and wiser than a 12-13 year old. He is awfully mature and solemn in general. Every Bran chapter in which Jojen is present, we see this, especially in ACOK and ASOS, although in ADWD he's perhaps more sullen, weary, and sick. Bran notices twice that Old Nan called Jojen "Little Grandfather." This is in ACOK, Bran-4 and in ASOS, Bran-1. Bran refers to JR as "Little Grandfather" in his own thoughts as well. In ASOS, Brand -1, Bran also states that Jojen could scare almost anyone, saying how Meera wasn't scared of anyone, except Jojen. This seems a little off. A 12-13 year old (not named Joffrey Barathister) that could scare anybody? Jojen just doesn't seem like a 12-13 year old boy, not even a mature one. In ACOK, Bran-5, Theon takes Winterfell. Jojen is not afraid as a young boy should be when the "Vikings" come to raid and pillage. Instead his eyes are full of sorrow. He is not afraid, despite their situation. Even knowing this was coming as he did, I would still think a boy would feel somewhat frightened. Jojen exhibits a strange absence of anxiety/fear when meeting the direwolves for the first time. Bran observes this while seeing through Summer's eyes in ACOK, Bran-3. Even as the direwolves are growling and threatening, JR isn't afraid. Meera, the older sibling, is. Jojen once calls Bran a summer child, even though he's only 3-4 years older himself.

Let us look at Meera's constant obedience of Jojen. Meera is the older sibling, about four years IIRC, and yet Jojen's word is law to her. In ASOS, Bran-3, Bran thinks, "Jojen had his way; he always did," after arguing with Meera about having a fire at Queenscrown. In ADWD, Bran-1, Meera obeys Jojen again when she wants to go back with Coldhands to help against the men that the ravens have warned him of. He tells her no in no uncertain terms, and so she doesn't go. Jojen is something more than just Meera's younger brother. Why would she always do what Jojen tells her, unless maybe he's her father?

In ASOS, Bran-2, Meera tells Bran of the knight of the Laughing Tree at the Great Tournament at Harrenhal, where Prince Rhaegar crowns Lyanna as the Queen of Love and Beauty. Ned was there, Howland Reed was there, and he may have been said knight if it wasn't Lyanna in disguise. That whole situation begins the road to the TOJ. Before, during, and after the telling, Jojen is genuinely surprised that Bran never heard this tale from Ned himself. He asks 3 times to clarify that Ned never told the story. Why would he feel this was such an important story for Bran to have been told before? The events in the tale occurred before Jojen would have supposedly born but it seems very important to him personally. Jojen even knows the name AND nickname of a mountain man that rode in the war with his father. Meera, Bran, and Jojen are speaking of the Houses of the Mountains. Bran mentions the Wulls in response to a question asked by Meera about a Wull riding with her father. Jojen says, "Theo Wull," and then, "Buckets, they called him." Jojen knows such specifics about a man that rode with their father during a war that occurred years before he was born? This is a small matter but Meera specifically asks about a man who rode with their father during the war. He may have done great deeds of course but that wasn't her question. Nor was it of a man who was close friends with their father, but someone who only rode with him. It just seems like an oddly specific thing for a son to know.

Jojen should be healthy, young and fit, yet the long grueling journey has the hardest physical toll on him of those in the party. This seems more consistant with a middle aged man. Who knows how much they age in appearance. He could also be using a glamour like the ones Melisandre uses. This could make him appear young. Remember they are reclusive and mysterious. Meera "carries the weapons" but that doesn't mean JR wouldn't use them. Perhaps he does not want to give away his identity by being way too skilled than an awkward preteen boy ought to be. HR/JR saw the fall of Winterfell in a greendream. His known presence would draw attention. Nobody at Winterfell at the time would likely have seen him before. And who the 17 sends their kids to do a man's job. Get them north of the wall? Really? What the heck kind of Dad is that or at least what's he doing that's so all-fired important as to have another gravely important task (to all of their survival against the real enemy) delegated to a couple of kids?

The mystery of Howland Reed's whereabouts has been right under our nose the whole time.

"He who conceals himself is revealed."


Last edited by BulldogBear; 04-21-2014 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Added bold to the spoiler alert

[Uncle Ruckus]

I think you're making too much out of it. Mance is Mance and Jogen is Johen.

[Tbonewannabe]

See....here's the thing. I'm not pumped. That may come as a surprise to y'all, but instead I'm pissed. Parts of me want to scream that letting the show get ahead of GRRM is 50 shades or irresponsible. I want to read the book first. I don't want to learn stuff ahead of time. Now, that is simply a preference of course and of course everyone hasn't read the books and will therefore see the whole situation differently. I know WMD, engie, Dawgology, Tbone, Shelton, Cabo, Ruckus, BoomBoom, and others I'm not thinking of at the moment have read the series. I think tcdog and mcain31 have as well. How do y'all feel about the show going forward?

One reason I haven't expounded on my theories any more or on any more discussion from this great thread:

http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?17348-A-Song-of-Ice-and-Fire-Theories-Thread-**SPOILERS**-for-Game-of-Thrones-Show

....is that I've just lost some of the fire for it because of this crap. I feel like the show will be very different from the books going forward so I'm not sure what we can take from it. And the reason I'm pissed is that I think that's what GRRM has in mind!!!!! One reason we have all the red herring and loose ends in the books is because he so very much wants to surprise everyone with the ending. But when you drag it out for what is now DECADES, people figure stuff out. He has admitted to changing the ending many times because of this. He says he's just sticking with it as it is now, but I believe that "Skipper" is letting the show go forward so he can "surprise" everyone with the ending of the book. What I mean is as if you were to watch "the movie" about the Civil War and Union wins, but you go read "the book" about the Civil War and confederacy wins. I think he's gonna totally deviate from the show so he can have his blinking "Ahah" moment. And I just think that's boiling over into general douchebaggery. When you drag it out for twenty blinkin' years, of course some folks are going to figure it out GRRM!

In this case I consider the book to be canon. It seems that whatever is the original media is the canon and anything else is just artistic license. Much like in Star Wars, the ultimate canon is the movies. I'm really half tempted to watch the show and not buy/read his 17ing books. If he wants the show to get ahead of him, then by Mullen, the show shall be declared canon and we don't need your blasted late-a$$ books.

I can't decide which to do. Watch the show and just to hell with GRRM or wait around to read the books first in which case he'll probably die before he can publish them.

I think he has been trying to get the books different than the show. I read he thought of a twist with someone that died in the show so I really think he just wants to make the books different. It may have to do with him thinking if the books are different then maybe people will buy them instead of just getting the cliff notes of the story from the show. There is no way the show covers all the details he has going in the books. It is to the point that I can't even remember all the loose ends.

[Tbonewannabe]

Y'all have probably gathered that I've chosen not to watch season 6, but I'll dialogue with y'all a couple of weeks because I doubt there'll be any major spoilers in the first 2-3 episodes that I haven't more or less guessed anyway, such as.....



^^^THIS. It doesn't bother me to read that because there are so many things in the books (and some in show as well) that point to the Rubies being associated with illusion. I don't consider what I already know to be a spoiler. Remember rubies are associated with illusion. Which is why the one that gets my vote is of course...



....Mance Rayder, aka Rhaegar Targaryen. "Mance" is still very much alive in the books, although the Boltons claim to have him and spearwives as prisoners in a letter (Whether or not it is to be believed is another thing). In this theory, the man killed at the Ruby Ford was Arthur Dayne posing as Rhaegar, something they were known to have done before. Plus all the Rubies. WHERE IS RHAEGAR'S BODY? IF THERE WAS A FUNERAL PYRE OR SOMETHING INSTEAD, WHY IS NO FUNERAL EVER MENTIONED? Because there was no body. When the rubies were scattered and somebody eventually took off the armor...ooops....that's not Rhaegar. But it was kept quiet. At the Tower of Joy it was mentioned when THEY found him (Ned). Who is they? Howland Reed, the only person left alive, is not a "they." Someone else was there. Rhaegar? It is the birth of his son, whom he believes is the Prince that was Promised and/or Azor Ahai. Perhaps Dayne was not killed after all, although Ned is saddened by his death. But when did he die? In this theory, it could be Dayne knew he had to die. He was in on Rhaegar's plan and there was no way he could "survive" the war. Some even believe that Mance is not who he seems and is in fact Dayne instead of Rhaegar. Either way, I do not believe Mance is just Mance. He is Rhaegar or Arthur Dayne. I'm fixing to have to go work. Maybe later this week I can gather all the clues as to Mance's true identity and put them in a single coherent post.

My second nomination would be Jojen Reed (aka Howland Reed). This was discussed some in a thread way back: http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?13827-Game-of-Thrones/page3

But I'm going to cut and paste the main quote here (from a post I made):


!!!!!SPOILER ALERT - MAY CONTAIN INFO FROM BOOKS NOT SHOWN IN TV SERIES YET OR AT ALL - SPOILER ALERT!!!!!

Okay Bulldragons, put on your tinfoil hats. This is why I theorize that Howland Reed is posing as his "son."


I could probably do this better when I re-read the series to get ready for release of TWOW but here goes. Jojen is odd. It is likewise odd that we haven't seen Howland Reed at all. The country is in turmoil. As close a friend as HR was to Ned, something isn't quite what it seems. I think that Jojen is Howland Reed, not Howland Reed's son. Howland Reed knew that Bran needs to get to the three-eyed crow. He is the one who had the dream of the fall of Winterfell in the book, not Bran. How is Jojen, a 12-13 year old boy teaching Bran how to warg? Jojen himself never alludes to having any warging or actual greenseeing abilities. He just says he has greendreams. The Crannogmen are mysteroius, not a whole lot is known about them. They are known to be small and who knows how they age or how much it shows. They may even be intermingled with Children of the Forest. The area they live in was flooded by the COF in an attempt to cut off the North from the rest of Westeros during their war with the first men. They may not be wargs themselves (The COF aren't) but have a load of ancient knowledge. Meera doesn't seem to have them but then she may not be a crannogman. There is another theory that suggest R+L = J&M!!!! Twins, seperated at birth ala Luke and Leia. Sometimes you can take clues from the tv series to learn things in the books. It's a different medium so you have to present info in different ways. The producers DO know the whole story as told them by GRRM in case of his premature death after all. Meera and Jon look similar in the show. But that's neither here nor there for this theory.

Frequently, Jojen is said to seem older and wiser than a 12-13 year old. He is awfully mature and solemn in general. Every Bran chapter in which Jojen is present, we see this, especially in ACOK and ASOS, although in ADWD he's perhaps more sullen, weary, and sick. Bran notices twice that Old Nan called Jojen "Little Grandfather." This is in ACOK, Bran-4 and in ASOS, Bran-1. Bran refers to JR as "Little Grandfather" in his own thoughts as well. In ASOS, Brand -1, Bran also states that Jojen could scare almost anyone, saying how Meera wasn't scared of anyone, except Jojen. This seems a little off. A 12-13 year old (not named Joffrey Barathister) that could scare anybody? Jojen just doesn't seem like a 12-13 year old boy, not even a mature one. In ACOK, Bran-5, Theon takes Winterfell. Jojen is not afraid as a young boy should be when the "Vikings" come to raid and pillage. Instead his eyes are full of sorrow. He is not afraid, despite their situation. Even knowing this was coming as he did, I would still think a boy would feel somewhat frightened. Jojen exhibits a strange absence of anxiety/fear when meeting the direwolves for the first time. Bran observes this while seeing through Summer's eyes in ACOK, Bran-3. Even as the direwolves are growling and threatening, JR isn't afraid. Meera, the older sibling, is. Jojen once calls Bran a summer child, even though he's only 3-4 years older himself.

Let us look at Meera's constant obedience of Jojen. Meera is the older sibling, about four years IIRC, and yet Jojen's word is law to her. In ASOS, Bran-3, Bran thinks, "Jojen had his way; he always did," after arguing with Meera about having a fire at Queenscrown. In ADWD, Bran-1, Meera obeys Jojen again when she wants to go back with Coldhands to help against the men that the ravens have warned him of. He tells her no in no uncertain terms, and so she doesn't go. Jojen is something more than just Meera's younger brother. Why would she always do what Jojen tells her, unless maybe he's her father?

In ASOS, Bran-2, Meera tells Bran of the knight of the Laughing Tree at the Great Tournament at Harrenhal, where Prince Rhaegar crowns Lyanna as the Queen of Love and Beauty. Ned was there, Howland Reed was there, and he may have been said knight if it wasn't Lyanna in disguise. That whole situation begins the road to the TOJ. Before, during, and after the telling, Jojen is genuinely surprised that Bran never heard this tale from Ned himself. He asks 3 times to clarify that Ned never told the story. Why would he feel this was such an important story for Bran to have been told before? The events in the tale occurred before Jojen would have supposedly born but it seems very important to him personally. Jojen even knows the name AND nickname of a mountain man that rode in the war with his father. Meera, Bran, and Jojen are speaking of the Houses of the Mountains. Bran mentions the Wulls in response to a question asked by Meera about a Wull riding with her father. Jojen says, "Theo Wull," and then, "Buckets, they called him." Jojen knows such specifics about a man that rode with their father during a war that occurred years before he was born? This is a small matter but Meera specifically asks about a man who rode with their father during the war. He may have done great deeds of course but that wasn't her question. Nor was it of a man who was close friends with their father, but someone who only rode with him. It just seems like an oddly specific thing for a son to know.

Jojen should be healthy, young and fit, yet the long grueling journey has the hardest physical toll on him of those in the party. This seems more consistant with a middle aged man. Who knows how much they age in appearance. He could also be using a glamour like the ones Melisandre uses. This could make him appear young. Remember they are reclusive and mysterious. Meera "carries the weapons" but that doesn't mean JR wouldn't use them. Perhaps he does not want to give away his identity by being way too skilled than an awkward preteen boy ought to be. HR/JR saw the fall of Winterfell in a greendream. His known presence would draw attention. Nobody at Winterfell at the time would likely have seen him before. And who the 17 sends their kids to do a man's job. Get them north of the wall? Really? What the heck kind of Dad is that or at least what's he doing that's so all-fired important as to have another gravely important task (to all of their survival against the real enemy) delegated to a couple of kids?

The mystery of Howland Reed's whereabouts has been right under our nose the whole time.

"He who conceals himself is revealed."


Last edited by BulldogBear; 04-21-2014 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Added bold to the spoiler alert

I definitely think Mance is someone of importance. He would have to do something to look different if he was Rhaegar. I think he is Dayne. There is no way Ned Stark would allow someone he was fighting to be stabbed in the back. This is a guy that is so honorable he actually tells the queen what he knows so she can get away. He never thought someone would betray his dumb ass because that isn't the honorable thing to do. He even is willing to die for it before Sansa and others talk him out of it then incest bastard has him killed anyway. I think Rhaegar told Dayne what was coming and he needed to gather the wildlings. After the Kingsguard is basically defeated at the Tower of Joy, I think Dayne tells Ned what is coming and Ned allows him to go over the wall. Ned then takes Jon to protect him from Robert's wraith.

I guess we shall see when the Tower of Joy scene is finally shown this year.

[Uncle Ruckus]

If that is true, then the show really screwed that plot by killing Mance. Again, I think Mance is Mance. If he is Dayne in the books, then I'll be really pissed that they show didn't let it play out.

[War Machine Dawg]

You can add Doran, Myrcella, Hotah, Tystane, Lord of Bones, maybe Jogen for people dead on TV but not in books. Then there's just people that are flat out not in the show who could have big twist in Trystane, Jon Con, fAegon, Damphair, Victarion (biggest disappointment), Arianne. Then the people alive in the show but dead in books Pycelle and Kevan come to mind. Clearly there's going to be a huge deviation from the books. At this point I'm hoping that the end game is the only thing that is the same so when I'm reading in will be completely new to me.

Come to the Dark Side. I've maintained all along we're getting to the same end game but the "how" we get there is going to be different. Nothing yet suggests otherwise, except for the possibility that Jon Snow is permanently dead.

[BoomBoom]

Come to the Dark Side. I've maintained all along we're getting to the same end game but the "how" we get there is going to be different. Nothing yet suggests otherwise, except for the possibility that Jon Snow is permanently dead.

i think that last episode hinted that someone (Davos?) will pretend to be John Snow going forward. that he really is dead and isn't coming back. if that is true, then i think the entire Internet will flip it's shit.

but i do think the next episode will open with Bran and his new weirwood powers, leading into encountering the spirit of John Snow and facilitating his full resurrection.

i'll also be keeping an eye on GRRM's official site. he usually like to leak his chapter prior to the show spoiling something, see "Mercy" prior to last season.

[mcain31]

Since the show runners have said that Melissandre is several centuries old, could she actually be Rhaenys Targaryen?

[BoomBoom]

Since the show runners have said that Melissandre is several centuries old, could she actually be Rhaenys Targaryen?

possibly, since a body was never found, but book-wise that doesn't fit with her memories from her POV. i think she was held prisoner as a hostage, and that fact was buried so deep that even the current Martells have no idea it happened. probably one of those tidbits we'll never get confirmation on.

Shiera Seastar is more likely, but that also doesn't jibe with her memories. and you'd think her and BR would recognize each other. maybe their bastard daughter?

[Uncle Ruckus]

What's going to happen tomorrow? Is Mel going to revive John? What's Bran going to see? Will it be the ToJ? Sansa going to make it to the Wall? Will Roose or Ramsey pursue? Will fat Walda give birth and drive Ramsey over the edge? Cersei has got to do something crazy over Myrcella.

[Uncle Ruckus]

*drops mic*

[mstatefan91]

http://imagesmtv-a.akamaihd.net/uri/mgid:file:http:shared:mtv.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Jon-Snow-Im-Ready-1447797007.gif

[engie]

welp

Right there among the top 3-4 episodes of the show ever. Maybe the best. The story is hauling ass now, but it felt pretty organic and unforced to me. Didn't really like what they reduced Roose to compared to the books. Was hoping it would be a similar turn where he's actually 2-3 steps ahead of Ramsey the whole time...

[Tbonewannabe]

Next week should be bad ass. This week was a lot better than last week. Finally it looks like the Tower of Joy will let us know what went down.

[engie]

On the Mance/Dayne thing -- Mance was not just a rise to power beyond the wall type of thing. He was a night's watchman for most of his life. Thorne(who is at the wall for fighting on the side of the Targs) would definitely have known/recognized Arthur Dayne or Rhaegar Targaryen. If Mance was either -- he wouldn't have hated them so much or fought them so harshly -- he would have still been loyal to them most likely.

[Tbonewannabe]

On the Mance/Dayne thing -- Mance was not just a rise to power beyond the wall type of thing. He was a night's watchman for most of his life. Thorne(who is at the wall for fighting on the side of the Targs) would definitely have known/recognized Arthur Dayne or Rhaegar Targaryen. If Mance was either -- he wouldn't have hated them so much or fought them so harshly -- he would have still been loyal to them most likely.

I didn't think about that. So if they are actually going to try and finish next year does Dany get to Westeros at the end of this year or beginning of next?

One thing I thought of was it was interesting that the High Sparrow said "we all deserve to die" to Jamie. Almost similar to the Faceless men that "All men must die". Read a theory that it is basically 2 gods fighting. The red priestess does say the god of light fights against the god of the dark. So maybe the white walkers, faceless men, and the High Sparrow are all basically fighting for the night god to bring about death to all.

Probably not likely but interesting none the less.

[Uncle Ruckus]

From what I read it will be broke into two seasons, kind of like how the sopranos did their final season

[engie]

yep -- 13-15 more episodes in 2 years.

They are claiming that's all the can fit into a year given the epicness of the endgame. Said this year was an almost impossible grind. Ran 4 shooting units at the same time for awhile.

[Tbonewannabe]

yep -- 13-15 more episodes in 2 years.

They are claiming that's all the can fit into a year given the epicness of the endgame. Said this year was an almost impossible grind. Ran 4 shooting units at the same time for awhile.

There will be some hella battles at the end. I wonder how many battles will happen before it is humans vs white walkers? Jon leading an army against Ramsay and you know the Lannisters will go against Dorne. We might even see the Faith Militant against the Lannisters. It will be interesting to see how different it will be compared to the books. GRRM has already said the book was pushed back because he thought of a twist he wanted in the books but the person is dead on the show. I think now he is just trying to make the books different. I think if he was still ahead of the show that the book would have already came out.

[engie]

There is going to be at least 2 "major" battles this season. The one at Winterfell will be the biggest in GOT history by about double judging by how long it was shot. Another one will be happening at Riverrun that according to shooting time should be pretty close to as big as Blackwater or the Battle of Castle Black. It's not looking to be a simply lifted siege there like in the books.

[War Machine Dawg]

Since I haven't seen it discussed.....Is it now canon that Euron killed Balon? Because that's one of the big mysteries in the books and has spawned several fan theories. I'm a little surprised they made it so definitive for TV. They could've easily had the hooded guy just toss him over instead of having him reveal himself as Euron before tossing Balon off the bridge.

[engie]

It's not canon. At least not that Euron did it personally. Show and book canon is too far diverged at this point and the stuff the show is doing is too simple/obvious for Martin

[BoomBoom]

Since I haven't seen it discussed.....Is it now canon that Euron killed Balon? Because that's one of the big mysteries in the books and has spawned several fan theories. I'm a little surprised they made it so definitive for TV. They could've easily had the hooded guy just toss him over instead of having him reveal himself as Euron before tossing Balon off the bridge.

SPOILERS!

everything on the show has to be so simplified, it's frustrating to me. take John Snow's resurrection. we've theorized it will come from a human sacrifice to a weirwood tree, from Jon's warg powers with or without the assistance of Bran, from the kiss of life a la Beric, from walking out of a funeral pyre. and what do we get? Mel burning some hair and saying some words, and he just wakes up. LAME. at this point, i think we've seen the best of the white walkers. i bet now they just show up at the wall, and the dragons fly by and burn them. end scene.

[War Machine Dawg]

It's not canon. At least not that Euron did it personally. Show and book canon is too far diverged at this point and the stuff the show is doing is too simple/obvious for Martin

Canon was a bad way to put it. I guess what I was getting at is are we surprised they had Euron do it instead of leaving it a mystery for a while? Obviously I'll always consider the books canon over the show. And I've been saying for ages I think that although we'll get to roughly the same endgame, how we get there in the show is going to be pretty different.

[Tbonewannabe]

I just hope we see what went down at the Tower of Joy tonight.

[engie]

TOJ and FAKE RICKON(I hope)

[Tbonewannabe]

Tower of Joy scene was a great fight scene but it pisses me off that the once again drag something out. Rickon looked real. Was that really Shaggy dog's head? The Umber's betraying Rickon would be up there with the Red Wedding unless the Umber's are kind of taking the place of the Manderlays in the book. I hope that Arya is done training because that is just boring. Still not a lot happening and I am getting worried that my standards for the show might be too high.

[engie]

That was the real Rickon and Shaggy I believe...

Rickon gonna be on one of those pre-battle crosses I'm afraid.

[BoomBoom]

Tower of Joy scene was a great fight scene but it pisses me off that the once again drag something out. Rickon looked real. Was that really Shaggy dog's head? The Umber's betraying Rickon would be up there with the Red Wedding unless the Umber's are kind of taking the place of the Manderlays in the book. I hope that Arya is done training because that is just boring. Still not a lot happening and I am getting worried that my standards for the show might be too high.

SPOILERS!

what happened at the TOJ? warg power, turn the ground to mud? nah, stab in the back. lame. Clegane reveal? nah, just everyone sort of knows already. lame. for a minute i thought they were gonna make the Harpy be the crying whore. that would have fit right in! Dawn? just a sun symbol on a sword, of which he had two for some reason. lame. Arya using warg power to win a blind fight? nah, just suddenly awesome for no reason. lame. Shaggydog? nah, dead. lame.

It's awesome and lame at the same time. it's like seeing the best movie ever made, but thru a peephole in the back, with all the best parts blurred out. it's like an edited porno.

John hanging the traitors and walking out like a boss was cool though.

[Uncle Ruckus]

It sound like you already have a mindset that it's going to suck, then when you watch it you think it sucks no matter what. I read the books. I think the story is much better. But, I know the show is going to be entirely different from the books now and I'm not going to let that affect my opinion of it. The show is freakin good.

[BoomBoom]

It sound like you already have a mindset that it's going to suck, then when you watch it you think it sucks no matter what. I read the books. I think the story is much better. But, I know the show is going to be entirely different from the books now and I'm not going to let that affect my opinion of it. The show is freakin good.

Kind of the opposite. I do love the show, but it could be so much more. I don't know why they insist on leaving out the coolest parts though.

[Tbonewannabe]

I am ready to see what Arya is going to do. How is she going to affect Westeros. Tower of Joy scene was foreplay without the sex. It was great but I wanted the payout. I really don't understand the Umber's plan especially if they really killed Shaggy dog.

[engie]

The Umbers are siding with Ramsey against Jon/the Starks because of the windings in the gift. That is their plan. They just handed away the biggest chess piece on the board -- and Rickon is the wildest of the Starks. He'd slaughter them for Shaggy. But he probably isn't getting the chance.

[Tbonewannabe]

The Umbers are siding with Ramsey against Jon/the Starks because of the windings in the gift. That is their plan. They just handed away the biggest chess piece on the board -- and Rickon is the wildest of the Starks. He'd slaughter them for Shaggy. But he probably isn't getting the chance.

That would truly be disappointing if that is the way it plays out. Killing Shaggy Dog definitely makes it look like the Umbers have turned on the Starks. I guess the show is completely ignoring the Manderlays and the Freys now. Walder Frey is definitely not going to eat supper with Ramsey after the doggy dinner. I am slightly disappointed so far in this season. I hope the build up is worth it. We still don't truly know if R + L = J which pisses me off. We had an entire year of Arya becoming No one so now I expect something to happen. At least Jon is now alive and done with the Night's Watch so he can go do something besides wait at the wall. I am guessing he takes the wildlings against the Boltons, Karstarks, and now Umbers. Does Littlefinger rally the Vale to help at Winterfell?

Lannisters go after Dorne or do they siege the Riverlands? I have so many questions and the show seems to be dragging their feet for each. I don't know how Sam and Gilly will even affect the story. It isn't like Sam will do a montage and become a maester in a month. It took a full season for Arya to become no one so I don't see how Sam even factors into the show now. Enough venting, back to work.

[engie]

We will be seeing Manderly and Frey this season

[Uncle Ruckus]

I'd say there's a chance that the Tarly's will come to Jon's aide. Jon, wildlings, Tarly's, maybe the Umbers, the Vale and/or Manderly's vs Boltons, Karstark's and Frey's. I'd say there's a good chance one to two of those houses fight against the Bolton's alliance.
Was it just me or did Shaggydog's head look awful small for a grown direwolf? I think in the books he was suppose to be the biggest of the wolves and that head looked about half the size of Greywinds who died at a much younger age. That's my only reason to think that the Umber's are not as they seem. Plus, the never swore fealty or bent the knee to Ramsey. If he did and betrayed him, he would be no better than Roose Bolton or Walder Frey. It's probably unlikely that if will play out this way but it wouldn't surprise me.

[engie]

Tarly is probably taking all of the Tyrell forces to kings landing

[War Machine Dawg]

I enjoyed the episode. I'm really hoping that's Fake Rickon, but I have my doubts. Killing Shaggy would have been a hell of a feat, especially considering he's supposed to be the wildest and most vicious of all the Stark direwolves. Also an interesting point that the Umbers made sure to never bow the knee in that sequence, instead letting their gifts do the persuading.

I'm wondering how long it's going to take Dany to convince the Dothraki to follow her. I'm guessing not much longer and Drogon will play an important role. He's not going to let them force Mother into being a crone for the rest of her life. Once she controls the Dothraki, they give her an automatic huge, aggressive calvary to go with the Unsullied and the dragons. Put 'em on boats, sail to Westeros, conquer everyone just in time for the big fight with the Others/Walkers.

TOJ was a bit of a letdown to me. Even though seeing Ser Arthur Dayne be a badass was cool, it really didn't tell us anything we didn't already know or couldn't guess. And I was disappointed Dawn wasn't more special.

Arya's training is just dragging on and on. One of those books are better than TV things. As for BoomBoom complaining how she suddenly starts winning out of nowhere, it's hard to get a sense of time with her segments. It looked like it wasn't that long, but her blindness training lasted several weeks in the book. The Faceless Men were training her to use all of her other senses. It took her a long time to figure out how to cope without her sight, listen for cues when an attack was coming, anticipate it, etc. So while it may have looked like it just all of a sudden happened, it actually took time and work. Still, her story just isn't moving very fast.

I'm wondering just how much of Jon is back. Remember what Berrick Dondarrion told Catlyn: Every time I come back, I'm a little less. Jon seems a bit colder and more ruthless now, although you could certainly choose to attribute it to dying at the hands of traitors. Love how he exploits the death loophole with his service to the Watch. He's going to crush the Boltons and their alliance. Gotta wonder how his new focus on family vengeance will affect the long term plan to fight the Others, though. He was the only guy preparing for the REAL fight. Maybe Melisandre, Davos, Edd, etc. will talk sense into him?

So many questions, so few answers. Still hoping we'll see more TOJ later in the season to confirm/deny what we all suspect with Jon.

[BoomBoom]

One comparison i saw online was to the Star Wars prequels. You're hyped for it, it's visually beautiful and seems to deliver.......but somehow underwhelms. i actually have loved every episode this season, but as soon as i reflect on it, it pales quickly, not from what was there but from what was missing. it's like dating the most beautiful girl in the world but not getting to put it in. it's wonderful......but still. they are teasing us and not delivering the money shot, over and over again. teasing us with heavy action that's awesome, but in the end leaving us with nerd blue balls.

i do wonder if the Umbers will be playing the part of the Manderlys. another example of the show writing itself into a corner by not introducing that plotline earlier. because God forbid you plan ahead.

definitely the real Rickon, it's clearly the same actor. he looks exactly the same, unlike the actor playing Bran.

notable that the head crone dropped that all Khals are coming to Vaes Dothrak for a meeting. easy way for Dany to bend them all to her courtesy of Drogon.

if Dawn doesn't have a part to play (which in the show it clearly won't), then i'm fine with that choice. but the stab in the back was lame. i can tell you the thought process: that scene needs to be shown now, but we're not ready to show Howland as having magic powers........so just delete them.

Arya's training scene was just badly directed. it came off as she just willed herself to win that fight. there was no conveyance of her other skills being sharpened to Daredevil levels. and of course they had to drop the warg powers because they avoided all the build up to it, including Nymeria and her pack. again, not planning ahead. even more frustrating when you consider all the dumb scenes like the Beetle crushing Lannister or Missande and Grey Worm that they went with instead.

was Robb's will even mentioned in the show?

i think the other half of the TOJ scene will be in 2 weeks, based on the summary descriptions of the episodes.

[Tbonewannabe]

One comparison i saw online was to the Star Wars prequels. You're hyped for it, it's visually beautiful and seems to deliver.......but somehow underwhelms. i actually have loved every episode this season, but as soon as i reflect on it, it pales quickly, not from what was there but from what was missing. it's like dating the most beautiful girl in the world but not getting to put it in. it's wonderful......but still. they are teasing us and not delivering the money shot, over and over again. teasing us with heavy action that's awesome, but in the end leaving us with nerd blue balls.

i do wonder if the Umbers will be playing the part of the Manderlys. another example of the show writing itself into a corner by not introducing that plotline earlier. because God forbid you plan ahead.

definitely the real Rickon, it's clearly the same actor. he looks exactly the same, unlike the actor playing Bran.

notable that the head crone dropped that all Khals are coming to Vaes Dothrak for a meeting. easy way for Dany to bend them all to her courtesy of Drogon.

if Dawn doesn't have a part to play (which in the show it clearly won't), then i'm fine with that choice. but the stab in the back was lame. i can tell you the thought process: that scene needs to be shown now, but we're not ready to show Howland as having magic powers........so just delete them.

Arya's training scene was just badly directed. it came off as she just willed herself to win that fight. there was no conveyance of her other skills being sharpened to Daredevil levels. and of course they had to drop the warg powers because they avoided all the build up to it, including Nymeria and her pack. again, not planning ahead. even more frustrating when you consider all the dumb scenes like the Beetle crushing Lannister or Missande and Grey Worm that they went with instead.

was Robb's will even mentioned in the show?

i think the other half of the TOJ scene will be in 2 weeks, based on the summary descriptions of the episodes.

This is exactly how I feel. I love watching the show but after it is over I am disappointed with what is left out. I am ready for some type of payoff. Watch the SNL skit of bringing Jon Snow back to life. They are making fun of the fact they spent 10 minutes washing the blood off and then chanting a couple of times. It was definitely underwhelming.

[Cabo32]

I enjoyed the episode. I'm really hoping that's Fake Rickon, but I have my doubts. Killing Shaggy would have been a hell of a feat, especially considering he's supposed to be the wildest and most vicious of all the Stark direwolves. Also an interesting point that the Umbers made sure to never bow the knee in that sequence, instead letting their gifts do the persuading.

I'm wondering how long it's going to take Dany to convince the Dothraki to follow her. I'm guessing not much longer and Drogon will play an important role. He's not going to let them force Mother into being a crone for the rest of her life. Once she controls the Dothraki, they give her an automatic huge, aggressive calvary to go with the Unsullied and the dragons. Put 'em on boats, sail to Westeros, conquer everyone just in time for the big fight with the Others/Walkers.

TOJ was a bit of a letdown to me. Even though seeing Ser Arthur Dayne be a badass was cool, it really didn't tell us anything we didn't already know or couldn't guess. And I was disappointed Dawn wasn't more special.

Arya's training is just dragging on and on. One of those books are better than TV things. As for BoomBoom complaining how she suddenly starts winning out of nowhere, it's hard to get a sense of time with her segments. It looked like it wasn't that long, but her blindness training lasted several weeks in the book. The Faceless Men were training her to use all of her other senses. It took her a long time to figure out how to cope without her sight, listen for cues when an attack was coming, anticipate it, etc. So while it may have looked like it just all of a sudden happened, it actually took time and work. Still, her story just isn't moving very fast.

I'm wondering just how much of Jon is back. Remember what Berrick Dondarrion told Catlyn: Every time I come back, I'm a little less. Jon seems a bit colder and more ruthless now, although you could certainly choose to attribute it to dying at the hands of traitors. Love how he exploits the death loophole with his service to the Watch. He's going to crush the Boltons and their alliance. Gotta wonder how his new focus on family vengeance will affect the long term plan to fight the Others, though. He was the only guy preparing for the REAL fight. Maybe Melisandre, Davos, Edd, etc. will talk sense into him?

So many questions, so few answers. Still hoping we'll see more TOJ later in the season to confirm/deny what we all suspect with Jon.


"He stabbed him in the back?!?"
What a punk ass way to kill off a character like that. Not surprised though seeing how they killed off Barriston with the f'n sons of the harpy.

If I had to guess they'll probably go back to the toj in episode 10.

Looks like they're swapping out fake arya(in the books) for rickon. Wonder if they'll kill him off right before the big battle

[engie]

Going back to TOJ in 2 weeks.

There is a reason Ned never talked about it. How did you think he was going to off Arthur Dayne? "If not for Howland Reed"...

[Tbonewannabe]

Going back to TOJ in 2 weeks.

There is a reason Ned never talked about it. How did you think he was going to off Arthur Dayne? "If not for Howland Reed"...

This is also the reason that everyone thinks R + L = J. There is no way Dayne is just standing around a tower to make sure nobody comes and gets the girl he kidnapped and raped. Ned said it himself, "Why are you here when your prince died at the Neck?". I think GRRM originally thought he had a great twist but he has taken so damn long that people eventually figured it out. Now he is trying to think of a new twist no one has thought of which is dragging the books out.

[engie]

I think he's just expanded the story to such a huge scale that he's having a very hard time bringing it all back together for a satisfactory ending.

[Tbonewannabe]

I think he's just expanded the story to such a huge scale that he's having a very hard time bringing it all back together for a satisfactory ending.

I agree with this. I don't know how Dorne will fit into what is happening now. The show neutered the best part of that storyline by making the prince a dimwit. I guess Dany could get their support because she is a woman? The sand snakes acted like they didn't want another man to rule even though all of this came about because of revenge for Oberan. That whole part of the show is just a boring mess other than Bron flirting with one of the sand snakes.

[Uncle Ruckus]

Speaking of, we haven't even seen him this season that I can remember.

[BulldogBear]

I agree with this. I don't know how Dorne will fit into what is happening now. The show neutered the best part of that storyline by making the prince a dimwit. I guess Dany could get their support because she is a woman? The sand snakes acted like they didn't want another man to rule even though all of this came about because of revenge for Oberan. That whole part of the show is just a boring mess other than Bron flirting with one of the sand snakes.


Speaking of, we haven't even seen him this season that I can remember.

Since this isn't in the books I'll discuss it. I'm sure those of you watching will confirm when and if they show that storyline again. I think the sand snake that hugged up on Bron as they were leaving gave him the antidote and Myrcella will be saved. We didn't really see her breathe her last and that almost never means the character is really dead.

[engie]

That part has been resolved...

The show definitely missed the essence of the Dorne story, much like they missed the essence of Stannis in the end, Roose Bolton in the end, etc...

Roose as I know him is holed up in the dreadfort while Stannis slaughters Ramsey like a rabid dog and takes winterfell just in time for the real war to begin. "Bastard's boys are really Roose's men"....

I get the reason you quit watching this year, but IMO it's misguided. The entities have diverged too much between the books and show to even be considered the same thing. The show might spoil the ending, but it is not spoiling the essence...

[Tbonewannabe]

It has been so long now since I read the books that I probably need to reread them. If Jon is the prince that was promised then he has to get Lightbringer some where. Several shows in and no mention of the white walkers. Bran has a vision at some point where the Night's King is there so it is coming. Arya is finally done with training hopefully so maybe we get a clue what the Faceless men want and what their angle is. They have to factor into the endgame somehow.

[engie]

Road to cleganebowl starts tonight IMO.

[Tbonewannabe]

Best episode of the year. I am disappointed in the Umbers being traitors though. It sucks how the wildling went down. I am glad Dany's trip paid off.

[drunkernhelldawg]

Best episode of the year. I am disappointed in the Umbers being traitors though. It sucks how the wildling went down. I am glad Dany's trip paid off.

I agree. The fire scene totally reasserted the greatness of the show. Wondering about A Girl. Wish the episodes were longer, of course.

[Tbonewannabe]

I agree. The fire scene totally reasserted the greatness of the show. Wondering about A Girl. Wish the episodes were longer, of course.

I am ready to see how Arya factors in to the grand scheme of things. Dany now has her army so I bet she is about to break all the chains, not sure if the masters are going to get 7 years. The Red Priestess said she saw Jon at Winterfell so it looks like the Wildlings and the Vale and probably the Manderlays go against the Boltons, Karstarks, and the pos Umbers.

I am looking forward to Bran's next vision since it looks like he gets insight into the white walkers. This season is getting good.

[engie]

Ep 9 or ep 10 on Arya....

The Chekhov gun is gonna go off