The Refs just won Duke the title

[Treemydawg]

Some of the calls made tonight were absolutely absurd. The call on the out of bounds play with about 3 min left that they reviewed and still gave duke the ball is just laughable.

[dawgoneyall]

The Fix was in.

[Homedawg]

Some of the calls made tonight were absolutely absurd. The call on the out of bounds play with about 3 min left that they reviewed and still gave duke the ball is just laughable.

I'll preface this w I hate duke, but your post is absurd. The best team won. They called 2 fouls on wisconsin in the first half and u are blaming on the officials? How bout missed ft??? Dekker not showing up? Either of those matter?

[Outside Dawg]

Wisconsin was blowing it but those two blown calls at the end pretty much sealed it.

[Treemydawg]

I'll preface this w I hate duke, but your post is absurd. The best team won. They called 2 fouls on wisconsin in the first half and u are blaming on the officials? How bout missed ft??? Dekker not showing up? Either of those matter?

Just to be on the record I don't like either of these teams and the first half calls have nothing to do with what I posted so how is that absurd??? The called foul on whisky when the duke player was clearly charging just minutes before the out of bounds call was just as bad or worse. My post was about the stupid and absurd calls that went against whisky in the second half that were clearly calls that should have went against Duke.

[Homedawg]

i agree they missed the charge call on Winslow. The ball out of bounds on video wasn't conclusive to me so I don't think you can change it. What I'm saying is absurd is saying the refs won them the game. They didn't

[DancingRabbit]

I'll preface this w I hate duke, but your post is absurd. The best team won. They called 2 fouls on wisconsin in the first half and u are blaming on the officials? How bout missed ft??? Dekker not showing up? Either of those matter?

Sorry, but just because Coach K wanted some make-up calls doesn't mean the refs have to listen. I'm not really a Duke-hater because I used to pull for them back in the late 80s/early 90s before they made the big time. I'm not a Wiscy fan, primarily because I tend to hate on anything related to the Big10. Before the game I decided to pull for Wiscy.

Did you see missed calls in the 1st half? I thought I saw 2-3 calls/non-calls go Wiscy's way and 8-9 go Duke's way during the whole game. The most blatant surely went Duke's way. Winslow should have fouled out halfway during the 2nd half with a charge and a foul not called. Late there were two out of bounds calls that went to Duke incorrectly, plain as day.

http://larrybrownsports.com/college-basketball/referees-duke-justise-winslow-calls-late-video/259138

[Homedawg]

So winslow was "clearly" out of bounds by at least an 1/8 of an inch and I can see that after its blown up and from an above camera view. As for the ball off his hand- I watched the game- I saw all the replays- I couldn't see that it clearly touched him. So not enough to change it. And I repeat- I hate duke. I hate duke. I wish the outcome was different, but duke played better when It counted and bad calls happen. Although I didn't see any that were blatant. Not like the 2 the other night in the wisconsin uk game. (Shot clock violation and flagrant foul.)

[Dawg61]

Replay wasn't conclusive. I still don't see the finger touch. Looks behind the ball to me. He reached for it and whiffed is what I see. Does the ball change directions cause I don't see that either.

[Treemydawg]

i agree they missed the charge call on Winslow. The ball out of bounds on video wasn't conclusive to me so I don't think you can change it. What I'm saying is absurd is saying the refs won them the game. They didn't
The ball out of bounds was clearly conclusive, unless you are Ray Charles or Helen Keller. Anybody with a decent pair of eyes can see the Duke player touch the ball last.

[Dawg61]

The ball out of bounds was clearly conclusive, unless you are Ray Charles or Helen Keller. Anybody with a decent pair of eyes can see the Duke player touch the ball last.

Rewatch it only this time watch it with the viewpoint that he misses the ball. You can teach your brain to see what it wants sometimes. Does the ball change directions?

[Treemydawg]

I never saw the ball change direction on any of the replays, but watch the close up replay down the line. Pause it and put in slow mo it clearly shows his finger ( middle finger) touch the ball how is this inconclusive video evidence in any game?

[smootness]

There were definitely a couple calls late that went Duke's way, but Okafor and Winslow were in foul trouble the whole game and were mostly non-factors. Okafor's 3rd foul particularly was garbage.

Duke won because Grayson Allen, Tyus Jones, Amile Jefferson, and Matt Jones stepped up and won it.

[Treemydawg]

He clearly touches the ball.

[smootness]

I never saw the ball change direction on any of the replays, but watch the close up replay down the line. Pause it and put in slow mo it clearly shows his finger ( middle finger) touch the ball how is this inconclusive video evidence in any game?

I'm pretty sure the refs don't get crystal clear zoomed in super slo-mo on a big HD screen. It was only on about the 10th viewing that I saw the finger. I doubt the refs saw it.

[Treemydawg]

I'm pretty sure the refs don't get crystal clear zoomed in super slo-mo on a big HD screen. It was only on about the 10th viewing that I saw the finger. I doubt the refs saw it.

Good point smoot, but if I can see it on my tv why can't the refs have the same viewpoint to get the calls right ? That's what I think is absurd.

[Dawg61]

I never saw the ball change direction on any of the replays, but watch the close up replay down the line. Pause it and put in slow mo it clearly shows his finger ( middle finger) touch the ball how is this inconclusive video evidence in any game?

You just said why they can't change it. If a ball is in the same path in between the finger and camera it will appear to be touching it when in reality it is not. It's a camera trick. Can we get an above the ball look at the exact same time the side look is appempting to show the finger on the ball. I think it misses completely.

[Treemydawg]

You just said why they can't change it. If a ball is in the same path in between the finger and camera it will appear to be touching it when in reality it is not. It's a camera trick. Can we get an above the ball look at the exact same time the side look is appempting to show the finger on the ball. I think it misses completely.

No sir I did not. Watch the down the line replay close up. It clearly shows the duke player touch the ball( no camera tricks involved) I'm not biased towards either of these teams but whisky was robbed on that call is what I'm saying. It is clear as day that the Duke player touched the ball to say anything else is asinine.

[Dawg61]

No sir I did not. Watch the down the line replay close up. It clearly shows the duke player touch the ball( no camera tricks involved) I'm not biased towards either of these teams but whisky was robbed on that call is what I'm saying. It is clear as day that the Duke player touched the ball to say anything else is asinine.

Well since we are still arguing it two hours later I'd say it wasn't conclusive which is the requirement to change a call.

[LiterallyPolice]

No sir I did not. Watch the down the line replay close up. It clearly shows the duke player touch the ball( no camera tricks involved) I'm not biased towards either of these teams but whisky was robbed on that call is what I'm saying. It is clear as day that the Duke player touched the ball to say anything else is asinine.

He clearly touched the ball, but I don't think this one play was the difference.

Dawg61 - watch the video here:

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/12634445/did-refs-get-wrong-crucial-bounds-review-duke-wisconsin

[smootness]

Good point smoot, but if I can see it on my tv why can't the refs have the same viewpoint to get the calls right ? That's what I think is absurd.

I agree with you.

That said, it's a call that seemed correct live and on just about every replay angle I saw. Only after multiple super slo-mo viewings did I see the finger bend slightly back, which was the only evidence of it touching Winslow.

Hard to call that an egregious miss. The situation made it a big call, but the call itself was hardly that big of a miss.

[Treemydawg]

Well since we are still arguing it two hours later I'd say it wasn't conclusive which is the requirement to change a call.

Which is why I said the refs just won Duke the title in the first place. It was absolutely conclusive.

[Dawg61]

Which is why I said the refs just won Duke the title in the first place. It was absolutely conclusive.

It was too late. Once the ref called it Duke ball initially they didn't have enough to overturn it. I know you aren't expecting the Ref to see that very small graze of the ball in real time right?

[Treemydawg]

I agree with you.

That said, it's a call that seemed correct live and on just about every replay angle I saw. Only after multiple super slo-mo viewings did I see the finger bend slightly back, which was the only evidence of it touching Winslow.

Hard to call that an egregious miss. The situation made it a big call, but the call itself was hardly that big of a miss.
It was a huge miss. Live I would have agreed with the refs, but after watching the replays it was plain as day he touched the ball. Why can't the refs see the same angles and views that we as fans see??? To me there simply is no reason to not get the call right no matter who wins. The calls and final decisions in the second half were absurd.

[fishwater99]

Which is why I said the refs just won Duke the title in the first place. It was absolutely conclusive.

Wisky still had time to come back, but fell short.
Big Frank was tired bc he didn't get any bench time. Why?
Decker had a bad shooting game too.
Duke won. It sucks.

[Dawg61]

He clearly touched the ball, but I don't think this one play was the difference.

Dawg61 - watch the video here:

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/12634445/did-refs-get-wrong-crucial-bounds-review-duke-wisconsin

Wow he barely grazes it. Impossible to see that in real time. Regardless Wisconsin lost the game when they let Duke go on a 13-4 run when they were up 9 and had both Okafor and Winslow on the bench with 4 fouls. They let Grayson Allen go off and tie the game. Where was Sam Decker? He was a non-factor.

[Treemydawg]

It was too late. Once the ref called it Duke ball initially they didn't have enough to overturn it. I know you aren't expecting the Ref to see that very small graze of the ball in real time right?

Look I think that you are a good poster and agree with 99% of your post, but having the replay is why they should have overturned the call. In real time I would have made the same call, but after watching the replays I would have reversed my previous call. Isn't this the whole point of having replay to get the calls right? Why ignore obvious video evidence that he clearly touched the ball ???

[Dawg61]

Look I think that you are a good poster and agree with 99% of your post, but having the replay is why they should have overturned the call. In real time I would have made the same call, but after watching the replays I would have reversed my previous call. Isn't this the whole point of having replay to get the calls right? Why ignore obvious video evidence that he clearly touched the ball ???

I didn't see the touch till the Vine video was posted. I doubt the refs had the luxury of seeing that sequence cut down and replayed twenty times in a row. Agree to disagree. I don't have a dog in the fight so I'm stepping out now.

[Dawgface]

I can see why it was not over turned. Just did not look that clear to me. I was pulling for Wisc but Duke was the better team.

[Coach007]

I can see why it was not over turned. Just did not look that clear to me. I was pulling for Wisc but Duke was the better team.



Yeah, duke won because they played defense with oklafor on the bench. Wisconsin didn't go to their big man enough during that time. If you are not going together it in to him, let him rest. In the end, he was tired and made mistakes.... Like the foul.


Great game... Duke players earned it..... Allen willed it!

[maroonmania]

I'll just say ALL the borderline calls went Duke's way in the last 10 minutes. Two clear charges on Duke (one called a block and one no call), the out of bounds that did appear to touch the Duke player's finger and wasn't clearly out on Wisconsin to begin with, and then the stepping out of bounds under the basket with no call. Duke was clearly the better, more aggressive team the last 10 minutes but they certainly had help as well. Now I'll admit that I was partial to Wisconsin only because I love seeing teams/programs win a championship that have never won a championship before. It means SO much more to them and I guess it gives me hope that MSU might be able to pull something off like that one day. Its like comparing what a NC in football would mean to an MSU fan compared to what it means to a Bama fan.

[CadaverDawg]

Treemydawg is correct. Not that we KNOW it lost them the game, but that it was clearly a blown call. The refs see what we see on their replay screen.....he 100% touched the ball with his finger. It bent his finger back even. And on the Duke "free possession", T Jones hit a 3 to make it a 8 point game (think it was 8). So it definitely mattered. It should have been Wisconsin ball, down 5, with 1:30 to go. And Frank the Tank hit a 3 their next possession, so you could argue that it was a 6 point swing with that blown call.

Not to mention, Winslow got away with a charge, a travel, a double dribble, and stepping out of bounds in the last 5 minutes of the game. He was the guy getting all the big rebounds at the end, when he should have been fouled out.

May not have changed the outcome, but it sure didn't help Wisconsin. That being said, I'm glad Duke won...I used to dislike them, but not anymore. I like Coach K.

[Political Hack]

Duke's beat player went about 2 mins down the stretch because of foul trouble. Wisconsin didn't take advantage inside.

[DudyDawg]

Wisconsin lost to Duke twice. Neither were bc of the refs. The refs were bad both ways last night. Wisconson was called for TWO first half fouls. Winslow and Okafor had two each. Duke won without their stars and because of role players dominating. Not bc of two balls not being called out

[maroonmania]

I didn't see the touch till the Vine video was posted. I doubt the refs had the luxury of seeing that sequence cut down and replayed twenty times in a row. Agree to disagree. I don't have a dog in the fight so I'm stepping out now.

Wisconsin just couldn't catch a break on replay. Guess the refs couldn't see the finger touch the ball on replay just like Saturday night apparently they could not see the KY player slug the Wisconsin guy across the face. Refs see what they want to see is all I can make out of it.

[sleepy dawg]

Are there any championship games where the refs didn't **** somebody according to this board? There are missed calls in every game ever played and every game that ever will be called by humans. Get used to it bitches.

[CadaverDawg]

Are there any championship games where the refs didn't **** somebody according to this board? There are missed calls in every game ever played and every game that ever will be called by humans. Get used to it bitches.

You're totally correct, which is why I'm not too worried about a missed call on a step out of bounds, a travel, or even a foul. But when you get to sit there and watch a slow mo replay, with incredible views, amazing zoom in, and you STILL don't get the call right...I have an issue with that. But again, I'm glad Duke won.

In other words, if the refs can't look at that replay and give the ball to Wisconsin, then replay should be done away with, because it serves no purpose.

[maroonmania]

Are there any championship games where the refs didn't **** somebody according to this board? There are missed calls in every game ever played and every game that ever will be called by humans. Get used to it bitches.

One thing I've learned in my life and it seems to hold true at ALL levels of sports. Power programs usually get the benefit of the doubt with calls in games especially in crunch time. Its always been that way and seemingly always will be that way. I've noticed it even when I am pulling for the favored team as well. If you want to beat the Dukes in basketball, Bamas in football, or LSUs in baseball you usually have to overcome the officiating to do it. Just the way it is.

[bullygrowl]

i agree they missed the charge call on Winslow. The ball out of bounds on video wasn't conclusive to me so I don't think you can change it. What I'm saying is absurd is saying the refs won them the game. They didn't

This is the replay I saw live prior to the refs stating the call will stand...
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/duke-wisconsin-ncaa-championship-game-featured-controversial-call/story?id=30130985

Never seen anyone bend there finger back like that, without say a ball hitting it.

[Political Hack]

Yeah, duke won because they played defense with oklafor on the bench. Wisconsin didn't go to their big man enough during that time. If you are not going together it in to him, let him rest. In the end, he was tired and made mistakes.... Like the foul.


Great game... Duke players earned it..... Allen willed it!

ballgame. If you don't hammer Duke inside with the Player of the Year while Okafor is on the bench in foul trouble, I don't know what to tell you.

[RougeDawg]

Replay wasn't conclusive. I still don't see the finger touch. Looks behind the ball to me. He reached for it and whiffed is what I see. Does the ball change directions cause I don't see that either.

You cannot see his middle finger bend back during the replay? Were you watching on your iPad mini? That's the only excuse for not seeing that or the ball change trajectories on the angle from behind the goal. It was plain as day and could be seen in real time. Just like the white sneaker over the black line. These guys get paid to make correct calls and clearly leaned on direction the last 5-8 minutes of the game, ultimately determine the outcome. The NCAA should have someone reviewing these Calls that has had an optometrist visit within the last year.

[RougeDawg]

It was a huge miss. Live I would have agreed with the refs, but after watching the replays it was plain as day he touched the ball. Why can't the refs see the same angles and views that we as fans see??? To me there simply is no reason to not get the call right no matter who wins. The calls and final decisions in the second half were absurd.

I have to disagree. Live you could see the ball change direction slightly and the rotation slowed down a bit when he touched it. Maybe these two things aren't noticeable to most but I was screaming before the replay that it was Wis ball. These refs get paid to make these calls and were standing right there. Their Duke bias allowed them to see what they wanted to see live and in the replays.

[Brad Stevens]

The first half was one of the most enjoyable halves of a championship in a long time. Coach K complains, and the refs clearly bend over backward to accommodate him in the second half. You're either a troll or lying to yourself if you don't see the ball going off Winslow toward the end. I could excuse it if the refs did not go to the monitor, but they did. The extension of Winslow's middle finger as the ball passes by is as obvious as it gets. That, and the obvious charge, which would have been 4th foul on Winslow, completely altered the integrity of the game to me.

[Political Hack]

The first half was one of the most enjoyable halves of a championship in a long time. Coach K complains, and the refs clearly bend over backward to accommodate him in the second half. You're either a troll or lying to yourself if you don't see the ball going off Winslow toward the end. I could excuse it if the refs did not go to the monitor, but they did. The extension of Winslow's middle finger as the ball passes by is as obvious as it gets. That, and the obvious charge, which would have been 4th foul on Winslow, completely altered the integrity of the game to me.

I agree they were bad calls, but you can't say that Okafor being in foul trouble didn't offer up some adversity to Duke as well. That and Winslow having 2 in the first half was a lot to overcome for them. Wisconsin could've taken advantage but they didn't hammer it inside to Frank to Tank.

Wisconsin lost the game because of coaching, not because the officials. They had them vulnerable and didn't take advantage. They could've limited their offensive positions, gotten them in worse foul trouble, and attacked the rim. Anyone suggesting the refs dictated this game was watching a different game than me. I think Okafor played about 2 minutes maybe in the last 8 or so???

[maroonmania]

I agree they were bad calls, but you can't say that Okafor being in foul trouble didn't offer up some adversity to Duke as well. That and Winslow having 2 in the first half was a lot to overcome for them. Wisconsin could've taken advantage but they didn't hammer it inside to Frank to Tank.

Wisconsin lost the game because of coaching, not because the officials. They had them vulnerable and didn't take advantage. They could've limited their offensive positions, gotten them in worse foul trouble, and attacked the rim. Anyone suggesting the refs dictated this game was watching a different game than me. I think Okafor played about 2 minutes maybe in the last 8 or so???

Its apples and oranges. Its a given that if you play well enough you can overcome bad calls, nobody is denying that. You never lose JUST because of officiating.

[Brad Stevens]

I understand what you are getting at, and that's why I commend Duke for staying in it with the first half foul trouble. Allen played amazing in the second half to keep Duke in it. Where Duke got into their own adversity in the first half, the refs clearly went out of their way to add adversity to Wisconsin in the second half.

I'm not saying Duke did not play well -- I simply believe there were blatant bad calls against Wisconsin for whatever reason.

[smootness]

ballgame. If you don't hammer Duke inside with the Player of the Year while Okafor is on the bench in foul trouble, I don't know what to tell you.

They didn't do it because it's harder than with Okafor on the court.

Oak for is not good defensively. Jefferson is much better. They did attack inside when Okafor was in, and it worked and got him in foul trouble.

But Jefferson did a fantastic job on Kaminsky when they did try to go in.

[smootness]

The people who honestly believe that in many games, refs purposely make bad calls to help one team are the craziest people.

[Political Hack]

They didn't do it because it's harder than with Okafor on the court.

Oak for is not good defensively. Jefferson is much better. They did attack inside when Okafor was in, and it worked and got him in foul trouble.

But Jefferson did a fantastic job on Kaminsky when they did try to go in.

No doubt they went at Okafor to get him in foul trouble, because they wanted him out of the game... it worked. And they didn't take advantage. Jefferson is a better weak side defender for sure, but Kaminsky can score facing up or with his back against the basket against ANYONE in the country, including pro players and the NBA elite. He has the best footwork of any big man to come out of college in years and years...

I had Duke winning the whole thing, so it went down as I had expected, but Wisconsin could've won the game with a few more quality offensive possessions.

[smootness]

They wanted Okafor out of the game because of his scoring, not his defense. They took advantage of him being out simply by reducing Duke's scoring capability until Allen and Jones went off.

Jefferson did a phenomenal job on Kaminsky. When Wisconsin did try to go to him, it didn't work very well. That's what actually happened in the game. It wasn't a big mistake on Wisconsin's part. They attacked with Kaminsky inside when it made most sense...when Okafor was in the game.

Kaminsky was 7-16 shooting even though he was 2-4 from 3. Most of those misses came fairly close to the basket with Jefferson in. He abused Okafor for the most part.

[fishwater99]

No doubt they went at Okafor to get him in foul trouble, because they wanted him out of the game... it worked. And they didn't take advantage. Jefferson is a better weak side defender for sure, but Kaminsky can score facing up or with his back against the basket against ANYONE in the country, including pro players and the NBA elite. He has the best footwork of any big man to come out of college in years and years...

I had Duke winning the whole thing, so it went down as I had expected, but Wisconsin could've won the game with a few more quality offensive possessions.

Your making too much sense.
This is why Wisky lost and it's all on Bo, even though he tried to blamed the officials and the rent a players.

[smootness]

Just as an aside, Kaminsky is very, very good. And yes, he can score at will on most. But his feet are not as good as Okafor's. Okafor is the best scoring big man I've ever seen ga the college level.