John Hart has lost his mind

[BrunswickDawg]

Ok, so getting rid of Melvin* Upton, no problem. But, KIMBREL?? You basically used him as a piece in a salary dump trade.

[msstate7]

Wisler is the Padres top pitching prospect. Get 41st pick too I think

[VandelayIndustries]

I don't follow the minor leagues very much but Wisler is supposed to be a good prospect.

[VandelayIndustries]

I like the trade. Braves are not going to be great these next two years, Kimbrel wouldn't have had many save opps with this team anyway

[msstate7]

I don't follow the minor leagues very much but Wisler is supposed to be a good prospect.

Padres' best prospect and one of best in baseball from what I just read on Braves' board

[msstate7]

I like the trade. Braves are not going to be great these next two years, Kimbrel wouldn't have had many save opps with this team anyway

Even if we somehow play better than expected, one of grilli or Johnson can close

[cbrunt29]

We got Wisler, an OF prospect, 41st pick, Cameron Maybin, and Carlos Quentin. Not too bad to me. A closer isn't that important to a team that won't contend

[cbrunt29]

Plus we have guys like Grilli and Johnson who have closed before.

[msstate7]

The starting rotation is going to be sick by '17-'18

Pretty sure shea Simmons is a closing prospect

[VandelayIndustries]

So basically the Braves are building to be good once they move into the new statdium? I have no clue on the prospects we have

[BoomBoom]

Ok, so getting rid of Melvin* Upton, no problem. But, KIMBREL?? You basically used him as a piece in a salary dump trade.

Gotta agree. He seems to eager to wipe the slate clean. Quentin and maybin for upton is basically a wash. So this is Kimbrel for 2 good prospects. You could get MUCH better than that by waiting. Terrible deal.

[TopDog58]

Gotta agree. He seems to eager to wipe the slate clean. Quentin and maybin for upton is basically a wash. So this is Kimbrel for 2 good prospects. You could get MUCH better than that by waiting. Terrible deal.

No it's hardly a wash. You get Upton's remaining salary off the books which is huge since the Braves are paying Uggla to be a Nat. Kimbrel is not a loss, he's losing it slowly but surely

[msstate7]

So basically the Braves are building to be good once they move into the new statdium? I have no clue on the prospects we have

Teheran, wood, miller, fried, banuelos, wisler, Jenkins, winkler, Sanchez, and folty... Out of this group, we're gonna have perhaps the best rotation in mlb in a few years.

Notice no minor. He'll be traded next imo

[BoomBoom]

No it's hardly a wash. You get Upton's remaining salary off the books which is huge since the Braves are paying Uggla to be a Nat. Kimbrel is not a loss, he's losing it slowly but surely

I'll figure values later, but BJ did not have zero value. As terrible as he was he was still worth a few million a year. He was just getting paid much more than that. Quentin and maybin dont look to have any value, but I could be wrong, can maybin play CF?

[dickiedawg]

So basically the Braves are building to be good once they move into the new statdium? I have no clue on the prospects we have

That's pretty much exactly what's going on. With that in mind, I don't hate the trade at all.
Yes, Kimbrel is a guy all the fans love and rightly so. But honestly, what good is an elite closer on a mediocre ballclub?
The front office to this point has said they're trying to compete, but with an eye toward building toward 2017. That's great, but why do things halfway?

Now, with that said, runs are actually up this spring (while they're stagnant across MLB) with our hodgepodge of guys. So maybe we'll win a few more than we thought.

[msstate7]

I'll figure values later, but BJ did not have zero value. As terrible as he was he was still worth a few million a year. He was just getting paid much more than that. Quentin and maybin dont look to have any value, but I could be wrong, can maybin play CF?

Maybin can play cf

[TopDog58]

I'll figure values later, but BJ did not have zero value. As terrible as he was he was still worth a few million a year. He was just getting paid much more than that. Quentin and maybin dont look to have any value, but I could be wrong, can maybin play CF?

Maybin has always been a CF. If anything Quentin and Maybin will give them a bit more power than they would have gotten by paying Upton 50 million to sit on the bench. All the chaw chewin homers that wear a Braves cap every day are going crazy about the loss of their hero Kimbrel, but what good does a $30 mill closer do for a 4th place team

[BoomBoom]

Maybin can play cf

Yeah, hes basically BJ. So upon review, Braves gain $19M (edited) in salary relief from Bj/qquentin/mmaybin swap, but lose about $10M in value. Gain about $10M in net value, assuming Quentin hits as bad as last year. Still nowhere near enough to give up Kimbrel for 2 good but not elite prospects.

[BrunswickDawg]

I get that it from a salary and prospects standpoint it is probably a good deal. I really just hate the rebuild process. That, and I'm still scarred from the Brett Butler for Len Barker deal in '83. I automatically believe any Braves trade will end in disaster.

[BrunswickDawg]

And it looks like they are going to DFA Quentin.

[shoeless joe]

Something seems strange here. Kimbrel has slipped from 2 years ago but he's still the best in the game at what he does. I do understand what the braves are doing and it will pay big dividends in a couple years. I guess the timing is just odd.

[BoomBoom]

Maybin has always been a CF. If anything Quentin and Maybin will give them a bit more power than they would have gotten by paying Upton 50 million to sit on the bench. All the chaw chewin homers that wear a Braves cap every day are going crazy about the loss of their hero Kimbrel, but what good does a $30 mill closer do for a 4th place team

Its not about what good Kimbrel does for this team, its about his value. This trade says the GM would rather HIS team take the field now than be patient and get full value.

[Really Clark?]

Its not about what good Kimbrel does for this team, its about his value. This trade says the GM would rather HIS team take the field now than be patient and get full value.

Disagree. If its just Kimbrel I might agree depending on the deal but getting rid of Upton's salary was a good move and is giving you good value to pull the trigger. It's basically 4 players that includes a great and good prospect and salary relief to go after someone to help the team. Now they also have some really good pitching prospects for use or trade baits as well.

[smootness]

Its not about what good Kimbrel does for this team, its about his value. This trade says the GM would rather HIS team take the field now than be patient and get full value.

Including BJ reduced the return. Yes, we could have gotten more had it been Kimbrel alone, and I think there is an argument to make for that strategy.

But I have no idea what you're talking about with the 'gained $19 million in salary but lost $10 million in value'. Maybin for Melvin is at worst a wash but could be a win for us simply in sheer baseball value in addition to the huge salary savings.

Wisler is a big-time prospect. He was untouchable in the Justin deal and is their #1 guy. Adding him, a good young OF, and the 41st pick is a really good return, especially when paired with getting rid of Melvin and freeing up money.

[BoomBoom]

Including BJ reduced the return. Yes, we could have gotten more had it been Kimbrel alone, and I think there is an argument to make for that strategy.

But I have no idea what you're talking about with the 'gained $19 million in salary but lost $10 million in value'. Maybin for Melvin is at worst a wash but could be a win for us simply in sheer baseball value in addition to the huge salary savings.

Wisler is a big-time prospect. He was untouchable in the Justin deal and is their #1 guy. Adding him, a good young OF, and the 41st pick is a really good return, especially when paired with getting rid of Melvin and freeing up money.

Bj set to earn $46M. Quentin/Maybin set to earn $27. The diff is $19M. Bj worth about $15M over 3 years (arguably 10). Quentin worth nothing this year. Maybin worth same as BJ, but for 1 year not 3. Thus $10M in net value.

But upon reflection, Wisler is arguably a great prospect, not just a good one. And its another 2 prospects or 3 total, not 2 like I thought. 3 prospects plus $10M is a lot better deal than 2 prospects and no money. Im fine with the trade now.

[smootness]

We have Maybin for two years, not one.

And BJ was worth 0.3 WAR combined the last two years. That's nowhere close to $5 million in value. It's about $800,000 per.

And I would argue he's worth less.

[Dawg61]

Did you guys forget the Kimbrel injury scare last year already? There's only so many 99 mph fastballs in his arm and he show a big red flag last year so if the team is already going to suck the next two years it is best to trade Kimbrel now and get decent value. To me it looks like the Braves desperately wanted BJ gone and San Diego is the only team that would consider it because of his brother and the Padres said "if you want us to take that shitburger off your hands it'll cost you Kimbrel". Braves said ok. That's how bad BJ Upton sucks. The Braves will gladly add in a top 5 closer to get rid of him.

[Really Clark?]

Bj set to earn $46M. Quentin/Maybin set to earn $27. The diff is $19M. Bj worth about $15M over 3 years (arguably 10). Quentin worth nothing this year. Maybin worth same as BJ, but for 1 year not 3. Thus $10M in net value.

But upon reflection, Wisler is arguably a great prospect, not just a good one. And its another 2 prospects or 3 total, not 2 like I thought. 3 prospects plus $10M is a lot better deal than 2 prospects and no money. Im fine with the trade now.

You are also forgetting the $34 mil (if we boughtout the 2018 option) we are dumping from Kimbrel as well. That's saving $53 mil in payroll in the long run and all of it is gone after next year. Add Uggla money dropping off this year and now we have some money to do something the next few years.

[smootness]

Did you guys forget the Kimbrel injury scare last year already? There's only so many 99 mph fastballs in his arm and he show a big red flag last year so if the team is already going to suck the next two years it is best to trade Kimbrel now and get decent value. To me it looks like the Braves desperately wanted BJ gone and San Diego is the only team that would consider it because of his brother and the Padres said "if you want us to take that shitburger off your hands it'll cost you Kimbrel". Braves said ok. That's how bad BJ Upton sucks. The Braves will gladly add in a top 5 closer to get rid of him.

There's no way this trade was initiated with BJ, with Kimbrel as a throw-in.

This was a chance to get good value out of Kimbrel and to continue to stock the farm system, and freeing up tons of money was an added bonus.

[Todd4State]

I believe this trade makes Hunter Renfroe the number one prospect for the Padres now.

[Todd4State]

Did you guys forget the Kimbrel injury scare last year already? There's only so many 99 mph fastballs in his arm and he show a big red flag last year so if the team is already going to suck the next two years it is best to trade Kimbrel now and get decent value. To me it looks like the Braves desperately wanted BJ gone and San Diego is the only team that would consider it because of his brother and the Padres said "if you want us to take that shitburger off your hands it'll cost you Kimbrel". Braves said ok. That's how bad BJ Upton sucks. The Braves will gladly add in a top 5 closer to get rid of him.

Closers are notorious for having short shelf lives.

[smootness]

I believe this trade makes Hunter Renfroe the number one prospect for the Padres now.

Unquestionably. Wisler, Fried, and Turner all traded.

Padres fans seem pumped, and I get that, but these are really short-sighted moves. They have completely destroyed their farm system, and it's not like they've added stud upon stud.

JUp - All-Star caliber, but one year
Kimbrel - beast
Kemp - severely overrated and declining
Myers - talent but awful last year

I just don't think they're going to be as good as people think, and even if they are, they completely mortgaged their future for it.

[BoomBoom]

You are also forgetting the $34 mil (if we boughtout the 2018 option) we are dumping from Kimbrel as well. That's saving $53 mil in payroll in the long run and all of it is gone after next year. Add Uggla money dropping off this year and now we have some money to do something the next few years.

Since hes worth more than that, that's not dumping.

[Dawg61]

Unquestionably. Wisler, Fried, and Turner all traded.

Padres fans seem pumped, and I get that, but these are really short-sighted moves. They have completely destroyed their farm system, and it's not like they've added stud upon stud.

JUp - All-Star caliber, but one year
Kimbrel - beast
Kemp - severely overrated and declining
Myers - talent but awful last year

I just don't think they're going to be as good as people think, and even if they are, they completely mortgaged their future for it.

Padres must have signed a similar deal that the Dodgers did recently. They must have new truckloads of money and are spending it like the Dodgers. Does anyone know if they signed a new TV contract like the Dodgers $6 billion one?

[BoomBoom]

We have Maybin for two years, not one.

And BJ was worth 0.3 WAR combined the last two years. That's nowhere close to $5 million in value. It's about $800,000 per.

And I would argue he's worth less.

His value is as a defensive CF.

[Really Clark?]

Since hes worth more than that, that's not dumping.

Says who? I give you it's not dumping today but that kind of money for a closer? By the end of the contract it could look a lot different. He is a great player but the point was you didn't figure his salary into the trade either. That's a lot of money being saved right now for the Braves and if Maybin plays to his average potential he is a good bit better than Upton has been the last two years.

[BoomBoom]

Says who? I give you it's not dumping today but that kind of money for a closer? By the end of the contract it could look a lot different. He is a great player but the point was you didn't figure his salary into the trade either. That's a lot of money being saved right now for the Braves and if Maybin plays to his average potential he is a good bit better than Upton has been the last two years.

Fair point he could get hurt. But prospects could bust. Thats not how you evaluate trades normally, you use present value.

[Really Clark?]

His value is as a defensive CF.

Yeah and his projected offense value is still three times that of Upton's. That's how bad Upton and his contract is. Upton's best WAR was 2008 at 4.8 and Maybin's was 2011 at 4.3. If they each just live up to half that rate this season we still get the better deal by far.

[Really Clark?]

Fair point he could get hurt. But prospects could bust. Thats not how you evaluate trades normally, you use present value.

Agreed but the point was you didn't add his contract with your numbers orginally. That is saving a lot of money.

[smootness]

His value is as a defensive CF.

BJ? That WAR number includes defense. BJ has been, at best, an average defensive CF. And he's prone to lazy plays and bad angles.

Maybin is better defensively than BJ.