Who is our hitting instructor/batting coach? Or do we have one at all?

[MabenMaroon]

IF we don't have one, why?

[yjnkdawg]

IF we don't have one, why?


I saw today where Nick Mingione was. I didn't know that as I thought Cohen was , in addition to the head coaching responsibilities. Mingione's strength, supposedly is as a recruiter.

[Treemydawg]

How dare you ask about a hitting coach!!! We're a bunting team damnit******

[War Machine Dawg]

I saw today where Nick Mingione was. I didn't know that as I thought Cohen was , in addition to the head coaching responsibilities. Mingione's strength, supposedly is as a recruiter.

Mingione is the hitting coach in name. This is Cohen's philosophy and approach. He was the Hitting Guru before coming to MSU. 7 years later, I have no idea how he got that reputation.

[yjnkdawg]

Mingione is the hitting coach in name. This is Cohen's philosophy and approach. He was the Hitting Guru before coming to MSU. 7 years later, I have no idea how he got that reputation.


I had heard Cohen changed his hitting philosophy when he came back to MSU and Dudy Noble, from what he had done at Kentucky due to Dudy Noble being a bigger ball park. So he had to adapt. True or not I don't know.

[Todd4State]

I explained it in another post.

Cohen is the hitting coach. Mingione assists Cohen with the hitters.

[Todd4State]

I had heard Cohen changed his hitting philosophy when he came back to MSU and Dudy Noble, from what he had done at Kentucky due to Dudy Noble being a bigger ball park. So he had to adapt. True or not I don't know.

There is a term sabermeticians use called ballpark factors. It acknowledges that every ballpark is unique unto itself and can affect performance. Kentucky's park- Cliff Hagan- is the extreme opposite of Dudy-Noble. Last weekend we hit six home runs at their ballpark with THIS team. If Dudy-Noble had the same dimensions we would have the same results and vice versa.

It's going to be more difficult to hit home runs in Dudy-Noble. You also have to account for the huge outfield and you need guys that can run that can run down the other teams balls that they hit. Dudy-Noble is an extreme pitchers park.

Cohen's philosophy isn't different as far as offensive strategy goes. He did small ball stuff at UK, but they hit a lot of home runs too.

Now whoever told you that may have been referring to his recruiting strategy- which I think was a little different from what it was at UK.

[I seen it dawg]

**** the ballpark. Just ****ing hit. Teach gap to gap. It's not ****ing rocket science.

[Smitty]

**** the ballpark. Just ****ing hit. Teach gap to gap. It's not ****ing rocket science.

Complete agreement. His trying to be cute bullshit has to go.

[State82]

**** the ballpark. Just ****ing hit. Teach gap to gap. It's not ****ing rocket science.

Pretty much sums it up in a nutshell. Like a great manager once said, "It's a simple game. You throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the ball. Got it?"

[dawgs]

There is a term sabermeticians use called ballpark factors. It acknowledges that every ballpark is unique unto itself and can affect performance. Kentucky's park- Cliff Hagan- is the extreme opposite of Dudy-Noble. Last weekend we hit six home runs at their ballpark with THIS team. If Dudy-Noble had the same dimensions we would have the same results and vice versa.

It's going to be more difficult to hit home runs in Dudy-Noble. You also have to account for the huge outfield and you need guys that can run that can run down the other teams balls that they hit. Dudy-Noble is an extreme pitchers park.

Cohen's philosophy isn't different as far as offensive strategy goes. He did small ball stuff at UK, but they hit a lot of home runs too.

Now whoever told you that may have been referring to his recruiting strategy- which I think was a little different from what it was at UK.

He's overcompensated for the park differences. Instead of using more elements of small ball/defense to complement some power, he's completely abandoned the power game. Just because dudy noble doesn't give up the most homers doesn't mean you should just stop trying to hit them all together.

[Drugdog]

IF- Cohen was a great hitting coach at Kentucky because of the small park, THEN why in world do we not move our fences in? Hell put them right in front of home plate and we can BUNT for HOMERUNS.

[RougeDawg]

IF- Cohen was a great hitting coach at Kentucky because of the small park, THEN why in world do we not move our fences in? Hell put them right in front of home plate and we can BUNT for HOMERUNS.

Haaaa. Glad to see people finally catching on to our "hitting guru".

[Todd4State]

IF- Cohen was a great hitting coach at Kentucky because of the small park, THEN why in world do we not move our fences in? Hell put them right in front of home plate and we can BUNT for HOMERUNS.

Because that's short sighted. We would be trading making it easier to adapt for Omaha for some cheap home runs at home.

[dawgs]

Because that's short sighted. We would be trading making it easier to adapt for Omaha for some cheap home runs at home.

Well we have to get to omaha to worry about the effects on our park, and hosting once in 7 years and never even being in the national discussion is a recipe for continuing to come up short far more often than not.

[Todd4State]

Well we have to get to omaha to worry about the effects on our park, and hosting once in 7 years and never even being in the national discussion is a recipe for continuing to come up short far more often than not.

And then when we get there you'll bitch about how dumb it was to bring the fences in.

[dawgs]

And then when we get there you'll bitch about how dumb it was to bring the fences in.

I think it's dumb to coach such extreme small ball to the point that if your D and pitching aren't impeccable, you have little to no chance of winning. There's nothing that says you can't have a few power hitting and play for a big inning just because you happen to play in a pitcher friendly park. It's not like historically we haven't had hitters put up big numbers either, so we are capable of doing it. Cohen has just outsmarted himself and is overthinking it. So if moving the fences in 5-10 feet gets cohen to get over his mental block with regards to team building and game planning, then I'm all for it.

Also, I'm not one of those guys that bitches regardless of what direction we decide to go. I wouldn't bitch about the current fences and then be ignorant enough to bitch about shorter fences after bitching about the old fences, so don't set up a strawman.

[Todd4State]

I think it's dumb to coach such extreme small ball to the point that if your D and pitching aren't impeccable, you have little to no chance of winning. There's nothing that says you can't have a few power hitting and play for a big inning just because you happen to play in a pitcher friendly park. It's not like historically we haven't had hitters put up big numbers either, so we are capable of doing it. Cohen has just outsmarted himself and is overthinking it. So if moving the fences in 5-10 feet gets cohen to get over his mental block with regards to team building and game planning, then I'm all for it.

I'd rather him overcoach now, figure it out in Starkville now, rather than get to Omaha and then over coach.

Of course, you're operating under the assumption of absolutes with no validity. It's not about "overthinking and overcoaching" as much as it is getting more guys that can actually hit the ball out of the yard. Unless you think that Cody Brown, Vickerson, and Robson are automatically going to start jacking balls out of the yard any time in the near future. I sure don't remember Hunter Renfroe bunting a lot.

I'd still dump Mingione at this point. Getting someone that can actually assist Cohen better would help immensely and give Cohen more confidence in the hitters as well.

Bringing in the fences sounds like something LT would do to not have to hire a decent hitting coach. Cheap solution with poor foresight.

[Smitty]

We don't need to "adapt to Omaha"... That's absurd.

[MabenMaroon]

We don't need to "adapt to Omaha"... That's absurd.

I think the philosophy should be GET to Omaha first and then deal with it when you get there.

[Intramural All-American]

Mingione is the hitting coach in name. This is Cohen's philosophy and approach. He was the Hitting Guru before coming to MSU. 7 years later, I have no idea how he got that reputation.

I don't know where y'all hear all of this, but Zach Dillon is the hitting coach. That is why he doesn't coach first base, and we have players coaching there. He wants to be in the dugout to talk to the hitters and watch their ABs. Mingione is not the hitting coach.

[Todd4State]

We don't need to "adapt to Omaha"... That's absurd.

So, you don't think we should do everything we can do to help us win a NC?

[Todd4State]

I don't know where y'all hear all of this, but Zach Dillon is the hitting coach. That is why he doesn't coach first base, and we have players coaching there. He wants to be in the dugout to talk to the hitters and watch their ABs. Mingione is not the hitting coach.

That's the first I've heard of that. It also doesn't make any sense unless Mingione was very willing to take a demotion.

Now, I'm sure that Dillon helps some with the hitters- but he's not the primary guy.

[Smitty]

So, you don't think we should do everything we can do to help us win a NC?

If it means giving us less of a chance of actually getting there then it doesn't help us win it, Todd.

[Really Clark?]

Pretty much sums it up in a nutshell. Like a great manager once said, "It's a simple game. You throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the ball. Got it?"

Lol. Well I do agree with that quote, I'm not sure the fictional manager "Skip" Riggins from Bull Durham was that all that great of a manager. Never got out of the minor leagues.

[Todd4State]

If it means giving us less of a chance of actually getting there then it doesn't help us win it, Todd.

Well, you are way off base. I'm sure fangraphs has something on ballpark factors that you can read since you don't want to listen to anyone here since you know everything.

Getting to Omaha and going two and out because we have a bunch of guys swinging for the fences and flying out to the warning track doesn't do us any good either. EVERY team in MLB builds their team to their ballpark. I guess you think they don't know what the hell they are talking about either.

If Omaha brings the fences in to Kentucky levels, THEN I would be all for it. Until that happens, it needs to stay where they are. It's one less thing that we have to worry about. And that's not to say that we should go all small ball guys either- it helps our power guys because THEY are used to adapting to a big ballpark as well. You do need outfielders that can run though because you have to cover those gaps to take hits away.

[War Machine Dawg]

Well, you are way off base. I'm sure fangraphs has something on ballpark factors that you can read since you don't want to listen to anyone here since you know everything.

Getting to Omaha and going two and out because we have a bunch of guys swinging for the fences and flying out to the warning track doesn't do us any good either. EVERY team in MLB builds their team to their ballpark. I guess you think they don't know what the hell they are talking about either.

If Omaha brings the fences in to Kentucky levels, THEN I would be all for it. Until that happens, it needs to stay where they are. It's one less thing that we have to worry about. And that's not to say that we should go all small ball guys either- it helps our power guys because THEY are used to adapting to a big ballpark as well. You do need outfielders that can run though because you have to cover those gaps to take hits away.

Yeah, because if they get to the World Series they get to play games AT THEIR BALLPARK. We don't. Getting to Omaha should be the priority. Can't win it if you never make it. And the either/or is bullshit anyway. With the new balls, there should be a nice increase in homers at Omaha starting this season.

[Smitty]

Getting to Omaha and going two and out because we have a bunch of guys swinging for the fences and flying out to the warning track doesn't do us any good either.

Vanderbilt doesn't have the same stadium dimensions as Omaha.

You try to fit things in EXACTS when the truth is so much different.

Like ONE inning of "that's how our offense is supposed to work" against UK No...

Or that power hitters ONLY hit fly balls a certain length that will be outs there. No gap doubles, no!

[Todd4State]

Yeah, because if they get to the World Series they get to play games AT THEIR BALLPARK. We don't. Getting to Omaha should be the priority. Can't win it if you never make it. And the either/or is bullshit anyway. With the new balls, there should be a nice increase in homers at Omaha starting this season.

Is this really a hard concept for people to understand? Since we don't get to play at our ballpark, it's to OUR ADVANTAGE- which HELPS US WIN to have a ballpark that is built similarly like the one we will be playing the championship in.

Do you really think that us hitting more home runs automatically equals us winning more? You do realize that we don't get to move the fences back when the other team bats correct? Which in theory negates any advantage unless we are playing an extremely light hitting team. See last week when we hit almost half of our seasons total worth of home runs at Kentucky.

There's no either/or here as far as offensive style. We can still have power guys with the current dimensions that we have. The issue is more defensively because we don't want to have guys that are like Russ Sneed and Ryan Duffy trying to flag down fly balls in gaps- so we need guys that can run that can flag down the other teams balls and KEEP THE OTEHR TEAM from getting hits. It doesn't have to be a guy like Robson- Renfroe was as fast as any outfielder we have ever had, and even a guy like a Humphreys is adequate as far as speed. Rooker might end up in the OF one day because he runs pretty well also.

[Todd4State]

Vanderbilt doesn't have the same stadium dimensions as Omaha.

So what? It's not the end all be all. But it's one less thing to worry about and it HELPS us win.

Do you really want us to have an offense like Vanderbilt? They're typically more small ball than us. Isn't that what you are constantly bitching about in the first place? And their offense fits Omaha very well- their guys aren't swinging for the fences so they transition pretty easily. Not to mention their outfielders can all run.

Or maybe you would like our offense to be like UCLA? Oh wait.

The stadium dimensions there are more advantageous to a team that can run. Which may be why we are seeing some of those types of teams winning there recently. I still don't think that necessarily means that you can't win with some guys that have power. But there is no question you need some guys that can run in the outfield there. And the power guys that we do get, I would much rather them be used to hitting in a big park from an approach standpoint than have to adjust on the biggest stage in college baseball. That's part of the reason why Indiana didn't get very far when we played them.

Explain to me why we wouldn't want our team to have an advantage when we get to Omaha again? Because I guarantee you that you will be one of the first to bitch when things don't work out.

[engie]

With the new balls, there should be a nice increase in homers at Omaha starting this season.

I agree -- but TD Ameritrade is still gonna be an extreme outlier IMO.

The problem with building it as nice as they did is there's no way to bring the fences in without having it stick out like a sore thumb as halfass... Unless they want to spend another couple million reworking the outfield seating altogether...

[engie]

I'm with you Todd on this particular argument.

I do think we've been built(or at least attempted to build) to win in the big yards. We only have to look at LSU -- who hit moon shots to the track in Omaha in 2013 and was the best modern LSU team by win percentage. They have not won a game yet in TD Ameritrade. The new balls may and probably will help to change that.

And I'm still on the record -- I want Mingione out. He was unqualified then -- and is unqualified now IMO. It may be Cohen's offense, etc... just like it may have been Mullen's offense with Koenning here. But things got better when he walked out the door.

[yjnkdawg]

I agree -- but TD Ameritrade is still gonna be an extreme outlier IMO.

The problem with building it as nice as they did is there's no way to bring the fences in without having it stick out like a sore thumb as halfass... Unless they want to spend another couple million reworking the outfield seating altogether...


And I think the directional design, of TD Ameritrade, is also a factor with the normally prevailing south wind blowing in from the outfield.

[RougeDawg]

Here's one thought that I haven't seen brought up with our large ballpark. The larger park actually creates more space in the outfield for the outfielders to cover. If we actually taught proper gap to gap power swings (not HR swings) we should be able to wear other teams out. If we started wearing out the gaps, driving the ball over the SS and 2B, it would force a defensive change. Other OF's would have to play deeper to give the better angles on balls hit in the gap, to prevent us from taking extra bases. Once they back up it now opens up more chances to drop some in, in front of them.

Instead we teach a small slappy swing that allows others to play shallow outfielders and take away more space that we are actually capable of reaching with our current swings. If we adjust our swing teaching mechanics and approach we may only create "warning track" power for the majority of our hitters, but that forces teams to play is honest defensively. If I'm an opposing coach and I see our shortened slap hitting approaches, I bring my outfield in to take away more of the field your hitters have demonstrated they routinely hit the ball to. If you do not have a balanced lineup and are one dimensional, your chances of success are greatly reduced.

[ShotgunDawg]

What a dumb conversation.

Why would any GM or coach build a team to play in a place that their may or not play 5 games in during the season?

How we build our team should have nothing to do with winning in Omaha, & everything to with winning at Dudy Noble & other SEC parks.

These things play in every park

1. Power arms - Hudson is the only one we have. Dallas Baptist U, a Missouri Valley school, has 5 95+ mph arms
2. Good breaking balls - I don't think we have one average MLB breaking ball on our entire pitching staff.
3. People who can hit - Non
4. People who can run - We have speed, but speed is a useless tool if you can get on base
5. People who can impact the ball - I didn't say HRs. By impact the ball, I mean doubles & triples. This is how you score runs. With singles hitters, you leave to many people on the bases. Doubles move runners & give you the chance to have a dynamic offense. People only think of power as HRs, which is effected by field size, but power is the ability to move runners, which includes doubles & triples & isn't effected by field size.

[ShotgunDawg]

Here's one thought that I haven't seen brought up with our large ballpark. The larger park actually creates more space in the outfield for the outfielders to cover. If we actually taught proper gap to gap power swings (not HR swings) we should be able to wear other teams out. If we started wearing out the gaps, driving the ball over the SS and 2B, it would force a defensive change. Other OF's would have to play deeper to give the better angles on balls hit in the gap, to prevent us from taking extra bases. Once they back up it now opens up more chances to drop some in, in front of them.

You are a genius!

This is an unbelievably cutting edge idea you have here. Instead of trying to barrel up 93 mph FBs & 83 mph SLs, we should teach our hitters to approach hitting like a tennis player approaches volleying the ball back to his opponent. Aim & hit it where they ain't....

This is such a great idea. Do you know how to teach this? If so, is there anyway you come coach this hitting style to my team?

[RougeDawg]

You are a genius!

This is an unbelievably cutting edge idea you have here. Instead of trying to barrel up 93 mph FBs & 83 mph SLs, we should teach our hitters to approach hitting like a tennis player approaches volleying the ball back to his opponent. Aim & hit it where they ain't....

This is such a great idea. Do you know how to teach this? If so, is there anyway you come coach this hitting style to my team?

Not sure if serious or not?? It's not difficult to teach if you have the proper instruction and work on certain drills to create said swing. If you practice getting your hands to 2 general positions in the hitting zone you can learn to hit any pitch in the general direction of any gap. If you happen to be a little early or late getting your hands to these two points (one pull gap, one oppo gap) you still hit the ball in fair territory. Pull gap is generally made contact with out in front of plate. Oppo gap is generally made contact with, even with front of plate back to middle of plate, no Mayer if pitch is inside or outside.

When you hear about throwing the hands you are throwing them to two specific points of contact. It's not an overnight fix and requires lots of practice. This is the same reason Derek Jeter could spray an inside fastball the other way. You just make contact at a deeper point in the zone and pull your hands through the zone across your body. He got his hands to the specific point in his swing that he had learned would hit the ball the other way when contact was made. Hitting is not a simple thing, but some of you want to look at it that way.

It's posts like yours that show the true ignorance of 99% of people on upper level baseball mechanics. Most have never been exposed to a true "hitting coach" and have these responses to my posts before actually doing a little reasearch themselves. Please go watch a MLB hitting instructor and what they work on with their hitters.

[ShotgunDawg]

Not sure if serious or not?? It's not difficult to teach if you have the proper instruction and work on certain drills to create said swing. If you practice getting your hands to 2 general positions in the hitting zone you can learn to hit any pitch in the general direction of any gap. If you happen to be a little early or late getting your hands to these two points (one pull gap, one oppo gap) you still hit the ball in fair territory. Pull gap is generally made contact with out in front of plate. Oppo gap is generally made contact with, even with front of plate back to middle of plate, no Mayer if pitch is inside or outside.

When you hear about throwing the hands you are throwing them to two specific points of contact. It's not an overnight fix and requires lots of practice. This is the same reason Derek Jeter could spray an inside fastball the other way. You just make contact at a deeper point in the zone and pull your hands through the zone across your body. He got his hands to the specific point in his swing that he had learned would hit the ball the other way when contact was made. Hitting is not a simple thing, but some of you want to look at it that way.

It's posts like yours that show the true ignorance of 99% of people on upper level baseball mechanics. Most have never been exposed to a true "hitting coach" and have these responses to my posts before actually doing a little reasearch themselves. Please go watch a MLB hitting instructor and what they work on with their hitters.

Man... This is great. Rouge I think you should be MSU's hitting coach. I can't believe that MSU's hitters aren't being taught the high level concepts of hitting the ball where it's pitched. I mean... What the hell do our coaches do all day?

All we have to do is teach gap to gap hitting and keeping your hands inside the ball, and we should be good.

Us 99%ers just don't have your depth of knowledge on hitting.

Rouge, you got it all figured out man!!!

[State82]

And I think the directional design, of TD Ameritrade, is also a factor with the normally prevailing south wind blowing in from the outfield.

Yes, it's orientation is a big factor for sure. TD Ameritrade has the same dimensions as Rosenblatt but the home plate-to-straight away center azimuth is rotated about 90 degrees to the southeast from that of Rosenblatt.

[Really Clark?]

Not sure if serious or not?? It's not difficult to teach if you have the proper instruction and work on certain drills to create said swing. If you practice getting your hands to 2 general positions in the hitting zone you can learn to hit any pitch in the general direction of any gap. If you happen to be a little early or late getting your hands to these two points (one pull gap, one oppo gap) you still hit the ball in fair territory. Pull gap is generally made contact with out in front of plate. Oppo gap is generally made contact with, even with front of plate back to middle of plate, no Mayer if pitch is inside or outside.

When you hear about throwing the hands you are throwing them to two specific points of contact. It's not an overnight fix and requires lots of practice. This is the same reason Derek Jeter could spray an inside fastball the other way. You just make contact at a deeper point in the zone and pull your hands through the zone across your body. He got his hands to the specific point in his swing that he had learned would hit the ball the other way when contact was made. Hitting is not a simple thing, but some of you want to look at it that way.

It's posts like yours that show the true ignorance of 99% of people on upper level baseball mechanics. Most have never been exposed to a true "hitting coach" and have these responses to my posts before actually doing a little reasearch themselves. Please go watch a MLB hitting instructor and what they work on with their hitters.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to slam you about fundamentals but "throwing the hands at the ball" is very dated concept and is not a correct swing fundemental to hit to the opposite field or in any other facet of hitting other than to foul off a ball to keep a bat alive if you are completely fooled. It really became a poplar teach with the popularity of aluminum bats. With such a large sweet spot and light bat you could get away with a more arm swing. It's just not used at the highest levels because it promotes an improper swing path. It's a confusing concept to teach keeping your hands inside the ball and throw your hands at the ball at the same time. To hit opposite field you want your hands to stay inside the ball. Something has to give if you are teaching throwing your hands at the ball as it becomes a very arm dominate swing which is not a correct fundemental. It causes the swing path to angle down instead of up at contact. Very opposite of what you are wanting to accomplish in developing gap to gap with power especially. The swing is basically the same whether you pull or hit opposite field. The point of contact and the closeness of your hands to your body is what determines where you will hit the ball. You do this by making sure your hands stay inside the ball by sliding them closer or a little further away depending of the pitch location. This helps you not get jammed because you can still make a good swing with your hands close to the body allowing the shoulders, hips and the rotation to keep you on the correct path. It is a lot harder to do in real time than what I am making it sound like in theory. Most great hitters will tell you that learning to hit an inside pitch to the opposite field is very difficult.

Also, in reference to the location of the ball at the point of contact at the plate. I understand that the plate is given a lot of times for a frame of reference and its a good tool but it only is correct if you are positioned in such a way that your front leg at toe touch has not gone further than the middle, middle front of the plate. A good way of thinking of it is that you are just letting it get deeper. Your point of contact is still your front leg whether you pull or hit opposite but the difference is a just a few inches when you are talking gap to gap. Some hitters do think of a slight press or angle with their bat to go opposite field. Video a lot of times shows very little difference but a mental cue that for that hitter helps to give a strong, fast swing that follows the correct swing path.

I know that pure linear hitting has been and is still taught to some degree. Mattingly still uses a lot of those concepts but video disproves a lot of this thinking including Mattingly himself was not a pure linear hitter. There are some linear and rotational elements but a great swing uses the whole body with internal rotation of the lower and upper body to generate proper swing path and power. Jeter and Ichiro may actually be about the best example of someone with a large amount of linear fundamentals when they are trying to go opposite field or slap that way but they also still are inside the ball. The bring the knob to the inside of the ball and have their arms extended out further than a lot of major leaguers. But this is not going to give you a conaistant gap to gap power you are looking for. And they are in the extreme minority. And Ichiro is unusual in that he has a much more conventional swing all other times. Depending on the hitting "guru" some think of Gwynn as a linear guy but others see him as a more combo hitter like I do. But that is debatable.