****ING UNACCEPTABLE

[Todd4State]

Well, guess I was wrong about the offense. All of you were right. Congrats. Go ahead and enjoy your internet rep points. Guess I've "come around".

Now, let's ****ing move forward and try to fix this shit.

Step one is to fire Mingione. He's a ****ing joke of a coach. Pretty good recruiter- he has gotten us into some area like California which we need to do to get the players that we need to succeed. But he can't coach. That's an issue because Cohen is having a hard time being both the head coach and primary hitting coach. He needs someone that can BOTH recruit and coach hitting. Let's go get the guy from Louisiana Lafayette. I guaran-****ing tee you we can offer him more than whatever the hell they are paying him. He has the blended style that I like personally- they still do the small ball stuff but they have power. If they can ****ing recruit power guys, then we should be able to as well. I don't care if the guy from ULL has his guys using roids, illegal bats, deer antler spray or has everyone ****ing sell their soul to Satan- whatever he does works.

Step two is to stop recruiting a bunch of JUCO stop gaps like Reynolds, Spruill, Lovelady, and Heck. If you're JUCO, you're JUCO for a reason. It's probably because you suck in the first place. Let's try to find guys like Hunter Renfroe late in the process please to fill the gaps for guys that we lose to MLB.


Step three is we need to actually find a way to keep big time hitters from going to MLB. LSU manages to find a way to do it. I don't know how they keep getting guys like Jacoby Jones and Alex Bregman (OK, I do- he had an injury his senior year).

Peace out bitches.

[Bucky Dog]

Welcome to our side Todd!! I would like to know if you now credit Cohen with responsibility for this shit storm. Whether it be assistant coach, development of players, offensive philosophy, whatever.

[Smitty]

First 3 game shutout streak since 1975

[Todd4State]

None of those mother ****ers on the team deserve to wear the maroon and white. They don't represent what MSU baseball is about.

[Todd4State]

Welcome to our side Todd!! I would like to know if you now credit Cohen with responsibility for this shit storm. Whether it be assistant coach, development of players, offensive philosophy, whatever.

It always goes back to the head coach. I think Cohen would be the first to say that.

It's up to him to fix it.

I'll say this- I expect some freshmen to be starting over some guys that are seeing a lot of playing time right now. And it will be an improvement.

[War Machine Dawg]

Well, guess I was wrong about the offense. All of you were right. Congrats. Go ahead and enjoy your internet rep points. Guess I've "come around".

Now, let's ****ing move forward and try to fix this shit.

Step one is to fire Mingione. He's a ****ing joke of a coach. Pretty good recruiter- he has gotten us into some area like California which we need to do to get the players that we need to succeed. But he can't coach. That's an issue because Cohen is having a hard time being both the head coach and primary hitting coach. He needs someone that can BOTH recruit and coach hitting. Let's go get the guy from Louisiana Lafayette. I guaran-****ing tee you we can offer him more than whatever the hell they are paying him. He has the blended style that I like personally- they still do the small ball stuff but they have power. If they can ****ing recruit power guys, then we should be able to as well. I don't care if the guy from ULL has his guys using roids, illegal bats, deer antler spray or has everyone ****ing sell their soul to Satan- whatever he does works.

Step two is to stop recruiting a bunch of JUCO stop gaps like Reynolds, Spruill, Lovelady, and Heck. If you're JUCO, you're JUCO for a reason. It's probably because you suck in the first place. Let's try to find guys like Hunter Renfroe late in the process please to fill the gaps for guys that we lose to MLB.


Step three is we need to actually find a way to keep big time hitters from going to MLB. LSU manages to find a way to do it. I don't know how they keep getting guys like Jacoby Jones and Alex Bregman (OK, I do- he had an injury his senior year).

Peace out bitches.

So at what point is it Cohen's fault that in ****ing year 7, with 6 recruiting classes under his belt, we're fielding a team that's worse than what he inherited? And that we're on a shutout streak that predates Polk I? Yeah, we were in Omaha 2 seasons ago. 1 regional host in 7 years. Changing one assistant coach isn't the answer, especially with the way we've either a) misevaluated or b) failed to develop talent.

[ScottH]

If you are talking about Matt Deggs of ULL, he accepted the head coaching gig at Sam Houston State

[Todd4State]

So at what point is it Cohen's fault that in ****ing year 7, with 6 recruiting classes under his belt, we're fielding a team that's worse than what he inherited? And that we're on a shutout streak that predates Polk I? Yeah, we were in Omaha 2 seasons ago. 1 regional host in 7 years. Changing one assistant coach isn't the answer, especially with the way we've either a) misevaluated or b) failed to develop talent.

See my response above. As I said it always falls back on the head coach. Not sure what else you ****ing want me to say.

The biggest recruiting mistake he made was going after a ton of JUCO's.

If you are asking if I think we should fire Cohen- the answer is still no at this point. Reason being I think we can fix our issues without blowing everything up and risk mortgaging our best class since the 1990's. The BEST solution is to replace Mingione. You can downplay what Cohen has accomplished all you want- the fact of the matter is for the most part he has won with less than stellar talent and built us back into a legit SEC team. The pitching has been good and firing Butch means he is probably gone as well. Firing Cohen at this point would be akin to firing Dan two years ago rather than just let Les walk.

[Todd4State]

If you are talking about Matt Deggs of ULL, he accepted the head coaching gig at Sam Houston State

Well, that means we have to pay more to get him.

[Smitty]

JUCOs aren't the issue, they have a place. The issue is DEVELOPING the HS guys.

[sandjunky]

JUCOs aren't the issue, they have a place. The issue is DEVELOPING the HS guys.
Outside of renfroe and Frazier , who has developed from the HS ranks as an everyday player

Rea - nah
Henderson - ok
Bradford - ok

[BankerDog]

Todd I wanna bring you back to Cole Gordon. I saw him play and I know he can rope. Do you think this is an issue where Thompson wants him as a pitcher and is raising enough hell about it that Cohen doesn't want to fight the battle? I know the only reason Waddell is on the team is because he can do both. It's a shame we let Dylan Ingram go for him.

I also think this scary that he is filling his classes with JuCos because they're actually halfway developed and his HS kids after a year or two aren't. He isn't developing his players properly.

[Bucky Dog]

What is Fall Ball for? That is our spring training and he still gets into the season not being settled on a lineup! Anyone who has played baseball knows that consistency and knowing you are going to be in the lineup and where you will be playing in the field and where you will be batting most of the time leads to confidence. You need to know who you will be turning two with or who will be batting before you and after you. You develop chemistry that way.

Why Cohen continues to screw with the lineup day after day after day is beyond me. Put the players in the lineup, show them you trust them and have confidence in them, then let them swing the ****ing bats!!

[Smitty]

Outside of renfroe and Frazier , who has developed from the HS ranks as an everyday player

Rea - nah
Henderson - ok
Bradford - ok

Exactly that's the issue. We can't develop shit. Pirtle Slauter Heck Detz Porter NickVick Parks Shepherd etc all JUCO

[bulldogcountry1]

Even if we get Tom Emansky, what are the chances that Cohen doesn't suffocate him with his ultra-conservative approach?

I fear it will alway be like Sherrill and OCs. He went through a half dozen OCs, and the style never changed.

[Smitty]

How about our 2 1st inning bunts. Could have given Sexton a nice 3 run lead off the jump but we bunt Vick and have a bunting Robson instead of Hump cleanup.

[Todd4State]

JUCOs aren't the issue, they have a place. The issue is DEVELOPING the HS guys.

Yeah JUCO's have a place- on the bench. The only thing JUCO is good for is finding catch and throw catchers.

Don't believe me? Look at the MLB draft and compare the number of JUCO guys to college and high school in the first round. And yes, I know that Bryce Harper, Pujols, Oswalt, etc. played JUCO ball so there is some talent there- but even in each of those cases it was a pretty exceptional case like Harper wanting to get into MLB a year early, and Pujols wasn't drafted until after the 10th round. Oswalt came from tiny home town where they had to start up a high school team because of him.

Our typical lineup:

C- JUCO because Collins has been hurt.
1B- 5th year senior (Rea)
2B- freshman or JUCO (Gridley or Holland)
3B- JUCO (Spruill)
SS- JUCO (Heck)
LF- Former walk-on (Brown)
CF- Junior (Robson)
RF- Sophomore (Humphreys)
DH- RS freshman or JUCO (Rooker or Vickerson)

The best players we have right now are Collins, Humphreys, and Robson. That's our best prospect who has been hurt, and the other two lead the team in HR's, AVG, and SB. I think you could make a strong case for Brown being our fourth best out of that group- and again he's not a JUCO either.

[Todd4State]

Todd I wanna bring you back to Cole Gordon. I saw him play and I know he can rope. Do you think this is an issue where Thompson wants him as a pitcher and is raising enough hell about it that Cohen doesn't want to fight the battle? I know the only reason Waddell is on the team is because he can do both. It's a shame we let Dylan Ingram go for him.

I also think this scary that he is filling his classes with JuCos because they're actually halfway developed and his HS kids after a year or two aren't. He isn't developing his players properly.

That's a good question. I think it has more to do with they really don't know if he is better as a pitcher or a hitter and they know that he wouldn't start over Rea and he's coming off of Tommy John surgery so they want him to rehab. I agree with you that I think he ends up as a hitter because of what we are bringing in from a pitching standpoint as much as anything.

Last time I checked Ingram wasn't hitting very well in JUCO ball.

The thing about JUCO ball is it is still a big jump from there to SEC ball. JUCO's are stop gaps for the most part. You have to look hard to find the diamonds in the rough there- like a Paul Young. But we're relying on them way too much.

[Todd4State]

Even if we get Tom Emansky, what are the chances that Cohen doesn't suffocate him with his ultra-conservative approach?

I fear it will alway be like Sherrill and OCs. He went through a half dozen OCs, and the style never changed.

We've only had two coaches with the hitting coach title since Cohen has been here- Burroughs and Mingione. Both had the same reputation as being good recruiters but not all that great as coaches.

So, here's the deal. Cohen is the primary hitting coach. Of course he has to do his head coaching stuff as well- and that is time consuming. That's where the hitting coach comes in to help fill in and assist Cohen with the hitting responsibilities. I think that is where a lot of the disconnect is right now. Cohen is stretched thin and Mingione isn't helping out all that much. That's why I would replace Mingione. We need someone to fill in the gaps better. Actually it might be better to have someone with a different approach than Cohen so that they can play off of each other and the hitters get the best of both worlds. It certainly could cause problems potentially as well, but if we're scoring runs and things are working I think it will be OK.

[Todd4State]

Exactly that's the issue. We can't develop shit. Pirtle Slauter Heck Detz Porter NickVick Parks Shepherd etc all JUCO

Pirtle- good point
Slauter- good defensive player, but not a great hitter.
Heck- sucks in the clutch
Detz- good junior year, bad senior year.
Porter- Hurt his senior year. Decent bench player.
Nick Vickerson- Started out at FSU, so not a traditional JUCO guy.
Parks- only went JUCO because of Polk. 100% sure Cohen would have signed him out of HS. So, not what I would consider traditional either.
Shepherd- Great athlete, platoon guy with us.

[Lumpy Chucklelips]

Can we not go out and get a hitting coach from the minor leagues? Someone who knows hitting inside and out and spends every day of their life teaching it? Those guys don't make that much money I don't believe. And the lifestyle would surely be a lot better. Hell, don't we have some alums who are coaching in the minors?

With the money being thrown around in the SEC now days, it doesn't seem like its something we couldn't do.

[Todd4State]

Can we not go out and get a hitting coach from the minor leagues? Someone who knows hitting inside and out and spends every day of their life teaching it? Those guys don't make that much money I don't believe. And the lifestyle would surely be a lot better. Hell, don't we have some alums who are coaching in the minors?

With the money being thrown around in the SEC now days, it doesn't seem like its something we couldn't do.

We maybe could find someone that has minor league coaching experience. The thing about that is most of those guys aspire to coach in MLB, so going to college kind of circumvents that because they want to stay on the minds of MLB organizations. And they're willing to take less money to chase that dream.

I certainly believe that we can get someone like a Godwin type guy to come in from the college ranks. Of course, if there is someone in the minors that wants to be our hitting coach- I'm certainly all for that as well. I'm just not sure how likely that would be. Travis Chapman is moving through the Yankees system- and he might even have a chance to be a MLB manager several years from now. Chris Maloney is not leaving the Cardinals. He has it made.

Also, at some point recruiting has to come into play as well as coaching ability. With the minor league guys that is a question mark. I've seen colleges fall into the trap of "hey, let's hire this MLB guy and kids will just sign up to play for him" and it just doesn't work that way. Ask Ole Miss about the Don Kessinger era.

[sandjunky]

So in SEC games, the team is hitting .235 with 41Ks and 43BBs; our two seniors (heck and rea) are hitting at a scorching average of .103 and 0.95 respectively

Pitching has an ERA of 6.04 and opponents are hitting .308 with a .414 slg while also hitting 17 opponents and 15 wild pitches

Stellar performance so far

[ScottH]

So in SEC games, the team is hitting .235 with 41Ks and 43BBs; our two seniors (heck and rea) are hitting at a scorching average of .103 and 0.95 respectively

Pitching has an ERA of 6.04 and opponents are hitting .308 with a .414 slg while also hitting 17 opponents and 15 wild pitches



And that's against bottom feeder SEC teams.

Check back after murderer's row.

[Lumpy Chucklelips]

Todd, I'm not ready to get rid of Cohen (quite yet), but honestly how much longer can he put this type team on the field and keep his job?

I know the basketball situation was a totally different situation, but how long can SS justify giving Ray 3 years and Cohen will be fielding his 8th team next year. I know we had the #2 team in the country a couple of years ago, but honestly, do you think they were the second best team in America? I personally have seen several MSU teams better than that one who didn't make it to Omaha. I know Cohen has to get the credit for the good just like he's getting the credit for the bad, so I'll have to give him that, even though I don't think it was anything particular he did to cause that run.

What is Scott going to do when the big boosters come to him and say I'm not sure I want to invest my money in a new Dudy Noble with the way things are going?

[EAVdog]

I'd rather spend three hours reading the comments on the Clarion Ledger than watch this team right now.

[Todd4State]

Todd, I'm not ready to get rid of Cohen (quite yet), but honestly how much longer can he put this type team on the field and keep his job?

I know the basketball situation was a totally different situation, but how long can SS justify giving Ray 3 years and Cohen will be fielding his 8th team next year. I know we had the #2 team in the country a couple of years ago, but honestly, do you think they were the second best team in America? I personally have seen several MSU teams better than that one who didn't make it to Omaha. I know Cohen has to get the credit for the good just like he's getting the credit for the bad, so I'll have to give him that, even though I don't think it was anything particular he did to cause that run.

What is Scott going to do when the big boosters come to him and say I'm not sure I want to invest my money in a new Dudy Noble with the way things are going?

Not too long.

But as you said, you can't compare Ray to Cohen. Cohen has had a LOT more success than Ray as well. Ray was bad for three years and we didn't show any improvement whatsoever. Cohen's first two years were bad. But then we went to a SR, a regional and won the SEC Tournament, went to Omaha and the finals while hosting a regional, and then we went to a regional again. Essentially this is the worst year since we rebuilt ourselves if it finishes the way I think it will. So, there is a pattern of success when you look at the big picture but there are some changes that should be made. Based on the overall success Cohen has had, I think the fair thing to do would be to allow him to make a change at hitting coach and then go forward from there and see what happens. If it doesn't get better after that change, then I think you start looking at other options.

I don't know why MSU fans want to put down an appearance at Omaha or any athletic success. We're not going to keep Cohen 10 years from now if that is all he has done. Because honestly, based on the on the field results, yeah- I think we were the second best team in the country. I actually think that team was better than the 85 team in some ways- defensively, and we had a better bullpen. And in some ways they weren't as good as the 85 team. Renfroe, Graveman, Frazier, Holder, and even though he didn't contribute a lot- Lindgren were All-SEC type guys, and then you had Girodo. People forget that the 85 team had some guys at the bottom of the lineup hitting less than .250.

Honestly, if I was Scott and the big boosters said that I would ask them "How do you expect things to get better if you don't give support?" You're going to do something that is going to hurt recruiting and the program and then expect things to get better? Something that if you don't support and we are forced to change head coaches is going to potentially hurt us in our next head coaching search? Hell, at the very least you get a better experience and more comfortable seat than before. To me, it would seem like it would actually help the cause to get rid of a coach because then you could say- "hey we gave you what we wanted and the results aren't getting better."

I think if you step back and look at the big picture here- the answer isn't blowing things up. The answer is making a small change. Personally, I think major changes would hurt us more in the long run because we would risk our class falling apart- one with 2-3 Under Armour All-Americans, some guys that played with Team USA, and in the Perfect Game All-American Classic. This is really the first elite class that we have had in a couple of years. And some of those guys are hitters that could potentially make an impact immediately.

[Lumpy Chucklelips]

Thanks for your analysis Todd. I enjoy reading your thoughts on baseball. I guess all of us being frustrated is a good thing in a way. It shows that we know where this program can be and the accomplishments it can make. If we thought this is as far as we could go, we'd all accept it and not complain.

[War Machine Dawg]

See my response above. As I said it always falls back on the head coach. Not sure what else you ****ing want me to say.

The biggest recruiting mistake he made was going after a ton of JUCO's.

If you are asking if I think we should fire Cohen- the answer is still no at this point. Reason being I think we can fix our issues without blowing everything up and risk mortgaging our best class since the 1990's. The BEST solution is to replace Mingione. You can downplay what Cohen has accomplished all you want- the fact of the matter is for the most part he has won with less than stellar talent and built us back into a legit SEC team. The pitching has been good and firing Butch means he is probably gone as well. Firing Cohen at this point would be akin to firing Dan two years ago rather than just let Les walk.

I'd be willing to let him get rid of Mingione, but that's his lone mulligan. If we let him make that move and we don't host a regional next year, then I vote we let him take a walk. That would be 1 regional host in 8 seasons or 1/6 if you're willing to give him a pass on the first two seasons. Either way, I think we can both agree this rebuild has taken way, way longer than it should have. And for that, there must be repercussions.

[BulldogBear]

First 3 game shutout streak since 1975Have we ever been shut out a weekend series in Starkville? Could this be a record breaking team after all?

[Todd4State]

I'd be willing to let him get rid of Mingione, but that's his lone mulligan. If we let him make that move and we don't host a regional next year, then I vote we let him take a walk. That would be 1 regional host in 8 seasons or 1/6 if you're willing to give him a pass on the first two seasons. Either way, I think we can both agree this rebuild has taken way, way longer than it should have. And for that, there must be repercussions.

If you're giving him a pass, then it's really 1 host in 5 seasons. I think hosting is only one thing to look at. The year we didn't host and went to a SR and won a regional on the road- I wouldn't call that a disappointing year. The year we won the SEC Tournament wasn't a disappointing year either. Last year was disappointing, and I would say that this year is. My point is you have to look at the whole body of work and not just at hosting regionals.

I don't know that I can call a program that just went to Omaha two years ago rebuilding. We're rebuilt- we're just in transition right now. Again, not to say that there aren't things that need to be improved. We have a rather large signing class coming in- and thus far only one JUCO. That's encouraging to me. We need to get back to badasses like Frazier and Renfroe and get rid of some of the cheerleaders like Ross and Rea. I think we're going to have some good attrition in the offseason.

[Smitty]

The year we won the SEC Tournament wasn't a disappointing year either..

Bull shit