Possible basketball 2 deep for 2015-2016

[Coach34]

Think about this:PG- NewmanSG- SwordSF- HoustonPF- ZuppardoC- WareThen have IJ, Tookie, Spoon, Fred, Daniels, and Black- need another big man period. That in itself would be a helluva lot better line-up than what we have been throwing out there. But we are also looking at some big men like Stone and Kosango. We obviously aren't done shuffling the roster- but it's going to be very improved next season.

[msstate7]

Am I missing something on stone? I dont think we're even recruiting him.

Kasongo is very important unless another big man is possible

[jumbo]

Am I missing something on stone? I dont think we're even recruiting him.

Kasongo is very important unless another big man is possible


Yeah, I've been wondering why people think we are in on him as well. There was the whole "newman and stone want to play together" from a while back but didn't think that was a real thing.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

We aren't getting Diamond Stone.

[tcdog70]

I think Black has plenty of potential, reminds me of Wiley Peck. I think our new Staff can really develop players like Black.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I think Black has plenty of potential, reminds me of Wiley Peck. I think our new Staff can really develop players like Black.

Yea I think a 4 man rotation of Ware, Kasongo, Black, & Zuppardo could be very serviceable.

[coastdoglover]

Fred Thomas will be a good player under Howland. He was messed with by Ray and his staff. Newman will be there if we bring in a inside player to keep the double teams off of him.

[BiscuitEater]

I think Black has plenty of potential, reminds me of Wiley Peck. I think our new Staff can really develop players like Black.

BUT there is 'no one' on the current roster that even comes close to playing with the same passion of Wiley Peck. He was a warrior; especially on defense.

He wasn't the most athletic player by any stretch .. but he made himself into a first round NBA draft pick by sheer hustle. Dunked a ball so hard one night .. almost knocked himself out. He scored 1136 points over 4 years .. playing for 3 different coaches (Kermit, Ron Greene & Jim Hatfield).

That Ron Greene team with Peck, Rickey Brown, Ray White, Al Perry, Gary Hooker, & Greg Grim was a joy to watch.

Check this out from the night he had 17 points against #1 Kentucky with Jack Givens, Rick Roby & Kyle Macy.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/statistics/Games/19780121MississippiState.html (Photo on page 3)

[Irondawg]

Daniels is either going to be a really good player for us next year or he's not going to be on the fall roster. I think it's extreme one way or the other.

My guess would be off the roster. I just don't think he has any competitive fire

[tcdog70]

BUT there is 'no one' on the current roster that even comes close to playing with the same passion of Wiley Peck. He was a warrior; especially on defense.

He wasn't the most athletic player by any stretch .. but he made himself into a first round NBA draft pick by sheer hustle. Dunked a ball so hard one night .. almost knocked himself out. He scored 1136 points over 4 years .. playing for 3 different coaches (Kermit, Ron Greene & Jim Hatfield).

That Ron Greene team with Peck, Rickey Brown, Ray White, Al Perry, Gary Hooker, & Greg Grim was a joy to watch.

Check this out from the night he had 17 points against #1 Kentucky with Jack Givens, Rick Roby & Kyle Macy.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/statistics/Games/19780121MississippiState.html (Photo on page 3)

Nice box score. I was at that game. We had some talent on that team. Walter Wright, Grimm and one of my favorites Ricky Moss were also on that team. That team could play with any team That MSU has ever had. Jim Hatfield really screwed over Greg Grimm later on. Al Perry, Hooker, white, Rickey Brown and Peck, a nice starting five.

[yjnkdawg]

Fred Thomas will be a good player under Howland. He was messed with by Ray and his staff. Newman will be there if we bring in a inside player to keep the double teams off of him.


I had heard he had lost his shooting confidence, under Ray's coaching but I don't remember the source. I agree. I think you will see a definite improvement under Howland's coaching and guidance.

[msstate7]

I had heard he had lost his shooting confidence, under Ray's coaching but I don't remember the source. I agree. I think you will see a definite improvement under Howland's coaching and guidance.

Fred is fighting an uphill battle to hold off Houston imo. Fred could fit under howland well if he concentrates on being a lock down defender

[BankerDog]

I'm going to tell y'all like a former player under Ray told me. Everyone was scared to make a play because Ray had strict roles for everyone. If you tried to make a play out of assignment you were in the doghouse.

I don't get the hate for Fred. He plays hard, hustles, and in my opinion our best perimeter defender. I agree with a lot of others that something was messed with once he got here. Because in high school, the boy was creating his own shots and draining threes.

[yjnkdawg]

I'm going to tell y'all like a former player under Ray told me. Everyone was scared to make a play because Ray had strict roles for everyone. If you tried to make a play out of assignment you were in the doghouse.

I don't get the hate for Fred. He plays hard, hustles, and in my opinion our best perimeter defender. I agree with a lot of others that something was messed with once he got here. Because in high school, the boy was creating his own shots and draining threes.


I think under our prior coaching staff, anything related to offense ( shooting, sets, screening, etc.) were pretty much non-existent in the coaching. "Just concentrate on defense and the offense will come"**

[msstate7]

I'm going to tell y'all like a former player under Ray told me. Everyone was scared to make a play because Ray had strict roles for everyone. If you tried to make a play out of assignment you were in the doghouse.

I don't get the hate for Fred. He plays hard, hustles, and in my opinion our best perimeter defender. I agree with a lot of others that something was messed with once he got here. Because in high school, the boy was creating his own shots and draining threes.

Not hating on Fred, but he really struggles dribbling. If we can get sword and Malik driving to the basket, Fred could get some open spot up 3 looks.

[Political Hack]

If Sword is our best option at 2, we're not getting any better. We have to get Newman to play the 2. It's our best line up. Let him bring the ball up the court, call him a point guard, let him dribble his butt off, but when we go into a set offense he'd better be running the two. If that doesn't happen, we won't be as good as we could be.

[Political Hack]

I'm going to tell y'all like a former player under Ray told me. Everyone was scared to make a play because Ray had strict roles for everyone. If you tried to make a play out of assignment you were in the doghouse.

I don't get the hate for Fred. He plays hard, hustles, and in my opinion our best perimeter defender. I agree with a lot of others that something was messed with once he got here. Because in high school, the boy was creating his own shots and draining threes.

he didn't get better under Ray, and he's got a high ceiling. I suspect he'll be much, much better under Howland.

[Coach34]

Sword was 2nd team All-SEC and averaged about 15 PPG in SEC play. He is a very good option at the 2- and he and Malik will make a very good backcourt.

[whosyourdawgy]

If Chicken stays healthy and keeps working on his jumper and improves as much this off season as he did in the latter part of the season, he will be Hell at the 2. If teams have to try to cover him on the perimeter he will absolutely kill them off the bounce. I also think his D will be much better under Howland. He has always had the knack for getting steals

What I think we still need more than anything is some shooters. Tookie is gonna penetrate and we need some good shooters for him to dish to. Dunlap? zuppardo?

[smootness]

If Sword is our best option at 2, we're not getting any better. We have to get Newman to play the 2. It's our best line up. Let him bring the ball up the court, call him a point guard, let him dribble his butt off, but when we go into a set offense he'd better be running the two. If that doesn't happen, we won't be as good as we could be.

No. If Newman comes, he will initiate the offense, as he should.

As far as defined spots (1, 2, 3, etc), that's overblown. We need Newman to initiate and be the main creator, and we need Sword to be free to attack the rim when he has the opportunity to do so. Call it whatever you want, but Newman would absolutely be a Westbrook-type for us.

[Political Hack]

Sword was 2nd team All-SEC and averaged about 15 PPG in SEC play. He is a very good option at the 2- and he and Malik will make a very good backcourt.

no. Sword is not a 2-man. He's a slasher. He can't score as a 2 in a half court set.

you trying to argue basketball with me is like me trying to argue baseball with you.

[smootness]

no. Sword is not a 2-man. He's a slasher. He can't score as a 2 in a half court set.

you trying to argue basketball with me is like me trying to argue baseball with you.

You're worrying too much about what a 2 is vs. a 3. In modern basketball, in a lot of cases they play essentially the same role. The only time that matters much is in man-to-man defense and some specific set plays.

But the 2 and 3 will generally play the same role in most offenses - create spacing off the ball, make cuts, hit open shots, attack the basket when open.

Saying Sword is a 'slasher' and therefore not a 2, or clearly a 3 and not a 2, is kind of insane.

Look at James Harden. He's definitely a slasher but is categorized by most as a 2. But you could also make the case he acts as a 1 in their offense a lot.

[thf24]

Most college lineups look more like 1-2-2-4-4 anyway. There are relatively few true 5's and very few true 3's in college basketball.

[Political Hack]

You're worrying too much about what a 2 is vs. a 3. In modern basketball, in a lot of cases they play essentially the same role. The only time that matters much is in man-to-man defense and some specific set plays.

But the 2 and 3 will generally play the same role in most offenses - create spacing off the ball, make cuts, hit open shots, attack the basket when open.

Saying Sword is a 'slasher' and therefore not a 2, or clearly a 3 and not a 2, is kind of insane.

Look at James Harden. He's definitely a slasher but is categorized by most as a 2. But you could also make the case he acts as a 1 in their offense a lot.

I agree somewhat but we're going to run and we're going to run the offense through the guards. We have to have them in the best place to succeed... and Malik is a more prolific scorer than Sword, which is why you'd want him at 2 rather than the 1. Sword is a prototypical 3-man. he can't extent a defense at the 2. Every team we play will go to zone and we'll go flat offensively. Can't let that happen.

[Coach34]

Sword started to be able to extend defenses the last half of the season with an improved shot from outside- he shot the 3-ball fairly well once he got healthy. He and Newman in the backcourt together will be just fine. They have to be on the court at the same time- and 1 and 2 will make that happen. Not to mention PG is the route Malik wants to go anyway.

We'll see some 3 guard line-up with them both plus IJ or Tookie I imagine- but I'd expect the primary plan is Mailk and Sword in the backcourt to penetrate, score, and kick to open guys.

[headcoach98]

Fred Thomas will be a good player under Howland. He was messed with by Ray and his staff. Newman will be there if we bring in a inside player to keep the double teams off of him.

Definitely agree, Fred wasn't used right at all under Ray.

[smootness]

I agree somewhat but we're going to run and we're going to run the offense through the guards. We have to have them in the best place to succeed... and Malik is a more prolific scorer than Sword, which is why you'd want him at 2 rather than the 1. Sword is a prototypical 3-man. he can't extent a defense at the 2. Every team we play will go to zone and we'll go flat offensively. Can't let that happen.

I agree that we need a shooter or we'll struggle in the half court. I guess my point is that if your '3' can shoot, it's less important that your 2 can. Obviously Houston isn't a shooter, so that hurts us...but Newman, Sword, and Houston would be on the floor together a lot.

It will make it more important that we get out and run in transition.

But there are a lot more scorers at the 1 than in the past. FWIW, Jerry Meyer from 247 called Newman both the #1 SG and #1 PG in the country.

[notoriousdog]

I agree somewhat but we're going to run and we're going to run the offense through the guards. We have to have them in the best place to succeed... and Malik is a more prolific scorer than Sword, which is why you'd want him at 2 rather than the 1. Sword is a prototypical 3-man. he can't extent a defense at the 2. Every team we play will go to zone and we'll go flat offensively. Can't let that happen.

Sword shot 40% from three in SEC play. Even if that number dips slightly, I think he's more than capable of extending a defense at the 2.

[headcoach98]

no. Sword is not a 2-man. He's a slasher. He can't score as a 2 in a half court set.

you trying to argue basketball with me is like me trying to argue baseball with you.

With Sword's improved jumper from deep he's definitely a 2-guard now.

[smootness]

Most college lineups look more like 1-2-2-4-4 anyway. There are relatively few true 5's and very few true 3's in college basketball.

This. There are even some teams who barely play even one forward at a time.

[Coach34]

Sword shot 40% from three in SEC play. Even if that number dips slightly, I think he's more than capable of extending a defense at the 2.


This all day

[notoriousdog]

1-Malik
2-Sword
3-Houston
4-Ware
5-Kasongo

This is the starting 5 I would like to see, with some solid depth coming off the bench.

Bench: Fred, IJ, Johnny Z, Weatherspoon, Black, Tookie, Daniels

[smootness]

1-Malik
2-Sword
3-Houston
4-Ware
5-Kasongo

This is the starting 5 I would like to see, with some solid depth coming off the bench.

Bench: Fred, IJ, Johnny Z, Weatherspoon, Black, Tookie, Daniels

I agree with that starting 5, though Ware would be the 5, especially on defense. I think Black will play a lot, too.

[notoriousdog]

I agree with that starting 5, though Ware would be the 5, especially on defense. I think Black will play a lot, too.

Kasongo seems to have more of a defensive presence than Gavin. Obviously, he's never played D1 ball, but we're dreaming here, right? Gavin is a liability defending SEC big men. Not sure if he's a 4 either, but I think I like him better there than as a 5. I don't know what Black is yet. He seemed decent last year, didn't mess up much but didn't show much either. Zuppardo is a shooter. I don't think he can score in the post against SEC defenders, but he can definitely stretch them out and shoot it.

I'd love to see Weatherspoon be as good as advertised and come take some of Houston's minutes. I like Houston as an energy guy off the bench.

[Political Hack]

if he can shoot 40% or higher from 3-land, he can probably handle it, but the last time I checked his overall shooting percentages were down from previous years. even if you shoot the 3 at 40% if your overall shooing percentage goes from 58% to 50%, it's not worth it. That's what he did this year.

We need to put him in a place to take advantage of his strengths, not force a square peg into a round hole. He's built to be a 3. Newman was born to be a 2, but he'll be a 1 in the nba so I can understand him wanting to play there.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I think you have to play Ware at the 5 bc he doesn't have the footspeed to play the 4.

[smootness]

If Ware has trouble guarding 5s, he would get destroyed by 4s, especially in the SEC. You need your more athletic guys guarding further away from the basket.

[notoriousdog]

I think you have to play Ware at the 5 bc he doesn't have the footspeed to play the 4.

So true.

[smootness]

If we have Ready, Newman, and Sword on the court together, that is a serious size disadvantage.

We're going to tell Newman he will play the 1. Otherwise we won't get him. It pretty much comes down to that.

Also, yes, if you shoot well enough from 3, it absolutely might be worth a drop in your overall shooting percentage. Only need 33% from 3 to match 50% from 2.

[Dawg61]

I agree with that starting 5, though Ware would be the 5, especially on defense. I think Black will play a lot, too.

I'd love to see on offense

1. Tookie (he's that good imo)
2. Newman
3. Sword
4. Zuppardo
5. Ware

But on defense
1. Newman
2. Sword
3. Fred
4. Black
5. Kasongo

So what's more important? Offense or defense? We know which one Howland stresses first.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

These are Craig Sword #'s

Fr. 40.5% FG% 19.4% 3%
So. 48.5% FG% 27.3% 3%
Jr. 45.1% FG% 36.0% 3%

During SEC play this year he shot 49% FG% & 40% 3%. However if you break it down more from the OM game through the end of the year which is 13 games he shot 56% FG% & 44% 3%. We know he won't be that hot for a whole year but he can easily be a 50% FG% & 38-40% 3% guy. That's a 2 guard anywhere.

[smootness]

I love Tookie and his potential, but if Newman comes to State, he's going to play the 1. Period. And he should.

[Dawg61]

I love Tookie and his potential, but if Newman comes to State, he's going to play the 1. Period. And he should.

Probably but I think he's best as a 2 not a 1. Newman reminds me a lot of a smaller LeBron. LeBron can play 4 positions. I think Newman can play 3 positions. I think our best offensive team is with him at the 2 not the 1. Agreed though that Newman will play whatever spot he wants. I think he's destined to be an NBA 2 though and the PG idea won't last long.

[Coach34]

These are Craig Sword #'s

Fr. 40.5% FG% 19.4% 3%
So. 48.5% FG% 27.3% 3%
Jr. 45.1% FG% 36.0% 3%

During SEC play this year he shot 49% FG% & 40% 3%. However if you break it down more from the OM game through the end of the year which is 13 games he shot 56% FG% & 44% 3%. We know he won't be that hot for a whole year but he can easily be a 50% FG% & 38-40% 3% guy. That's a 2 guard anywhere.


His numbers were down because he came back too early from back surgery- once he was well, he was far superior to anything he had done and was one of the better players in the SEC. Sword at the 2 is a no-brainer

[smootness]

Newman will be a 1 in the NBA or else he won't be very good. He's undersized at the 2 and not enough of a shooter. He definitely can't play the 3 in the NBA.

If he's a 2, he's an undersized volume shooter, and they're being phased out of the game.

[Thick]

I don't understand why anyone would question Daniels. I think he will play his ass off under Howland. Fred is the one that has not gotten any better since stepping on the court from day one. Not a good ball handler, cannot make a post entry pass....period, and plays scared (turnover machine). Houston could be a stud by his junior season imo.

[whosyourdawgy]

Hell Ray didn't even play Daniels when it was crucial time. The dude just doesn't have any aggression and a passive basketball player should not be on a competitive SEC roster. He shows to have some skill but if he doesn't use it, he is of no use. If Howland can somehow light a fire then we will see, if not I'm fine with Daniels being at Southwest Missouri State next season and let Howland bring in another high school signee or juco

[Quaoarsking]

So if we sign Kasongo and Newman, we'd probably cut 2 out of Dunlap, Ndoye, and Strugg?

Not that I have any particular knowledge here, but isn't Dunlap supposed to be the best 3-point shooter on the team?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

So if we sign Kasongo and Newman, we'd probably cut 2 out of Dunlap, Ndoye, and Strugg?

Not that I have any particular knowledge here, but isn't Dunlap supposed to be the best 3-point shooter on the team?

We're not cutting Strugg.

[Quaoarsking]

We're not cutting Strugg.

Well who then? Is someone going to leave voluntarily and make this easy?

[smootness]

Well who then? Is someone going to leave voluntarily and make this easy?

Well, we could still cut two of Dunlap and Ndoye, I guess.

[Brad Stevens]

I don't understand why anyone would question Daniels. I think he will play his ass off under Howland. Fred is the one that has not gotten any better since stepping on the court from day one. Not a good ball handler, cannot make a post entry pass....period, and plays scared (turnover machine). Houston could be a stud by his junior season imo.

I'm with you here. I personally think we would be better if we moved Daniels to the 4 permanently. He is about the same size (maybe bigger) than Roq and adds much more quickness and athleticism to your overall lineup (still allows having Houston or Fred on the court with Sword and hopefully Malik). In my mind, Daniels excels as a trailer against the press who can handle the ball against the opponent's 4 man.

[Brad Stevens]

Probably but I think he's best as a 2 not a 1. Newman reminds me a lot of a smaller LeBron. LeBron can play 4 positions. I think Newman can play 3 positions. I think our best offensive team is with him at the 2 not the 1. Agreed though that Newman will play whatever spot he wants. I think he's destined to be an NBA 2 though and the PG idea won't last long.


Yes, Lebron can play a lot of positions, as can Malik. But, anyone who has watched Lebron play can tell he is at his best when the ball is in his hands. He is either drawing multiple defenders and dishing, or he can score off the dribble much better than coming off screens. I see Malik reaching his highest potential doing the same thing. If he attracts defenders, then he can kick to Sword or whoever the other guard is to continue to attack 4-on-3. Malik will play best with the ball in his hands, and our team would benefit best as well.

[Brad Stevens]

no. Sword is not a 2-man. He's a slasher. He can't score as a 2 in a half court set.

you trying to argue basketball with me is like me trying to argue baseball with you.

Sword is a slasher, but he has definitely made himself into a shooter. I would imagine one more off-season will only make him more consistent that way. Sword is a good sized 2-guard and an undersized 3-man. I think our team will be longer and more athletic if we have him at the 2, and I hope that's what we do (if we pull off Malik). If, for some reason, Sword doesn't play the 2, I honestly wish he would play the 1. He is a playmaker and we need the ball in his hands as much as we can get it, especially if we don't get Malik.

[Brad Stevens]

If we sign Newman, my 5 would be:
1. Newman
2. Sword
3. Thomas (I think he guards the other team's best defender and has a solid year with better coaching)
4. Daniels (more athletic, stretch the D, extra ball handler compared to other 4's)
5. Ware

If any of the first 3 get in foul trouble, I bring Houston in. Either keep Newman at the one or move Sword there. Situational subs otherwise (Ready in if we need more ball handlers, Kasongo or Black in if we need more big men, etc.)

[Ifyouonlyknew]

No way I play Daniels at the 4. He doesn't play nearly as physical or tough enough to battle down there. Our rebounding would suffer big time & I don't think he has the mentality to handle it if a bigger 4 took him on the block.

[Brad Stevens]

Well he isn't quick enough to guard the 3 spot either. You have to give or take somewhere. I would prefer to take my chances with him having a quickness and shooting advantage over opponent 4's and toughen him up defensively. And let's be honest - you talk about him battling "down there." I didn't say the 5 spot. Most teams' 4 man is the inbounder and trailer on the offensive end and at least starts the offense at the top of the key. I would rather have Daniels as the relief man inbounding the ball than Black or whoever else.

If Howland does not play him at the 4, then I don't see how he can contribute. I hope I'm wrong.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I agree I think undersized 4 is his best spot I'm just not sure he'd do it well. Here's to hoping he finds some intensity this offseason.

[whosyourdawgy]

So if we sign Kasongo and Newman, we'd probably cut 2 out of Dunlap, Ndoye, and Strugg?

Not that I have any particular knowledge here, but isn't Dunlap supposed to be the best 3-point shooter on the team?

Fallou and Travis would be gone if it were me.