Thought on Cohen

[sbcmortgageman]

It just hit me that if it was any other sport at Mississippi State that we had this much success in, right now we would all be worried we would lose our head coach. Football, basketball, etc. I think we will never have to worry about John Cohen leaving for another job no matter how much we win.

[SaltyDawg]

I have thought the same exact thing multiple times, it's a good feeling.

[DownwardDawg]

This is why so many people like the idea of Mark Hudspeth being our head coach in football. Once he gets here, he won't leave unless he gets fired.

[Goat Holder]

he won't leave unless he gets fired.

Well, considering our fans unrealistic expectations, and how much vitriol we spewed towards Cohen, I'd count on that being a reality. Because fact of the matter is, football won't win as much as baseball thus offsetting the hatred. I mean let's face it we have fans that want Mullen fired right now based on propaganda from outside our campus. We eat our own, always have. Look how many people absolutely hate Ron Polk.

[DownwardDawg]

Well, considering our fans unrealistic expectations, and how much vitriol we spewed towards Cohen, I'd count on that being a reality. Because fact of the matter is, football won't win as much as baseball thus offsetting the hatred. I mean let's face it we have fans that want Mullen fired right now based on propaganda from outside our campus. We eat our own, always have. Look how many people absolutely hate Ron Polk.

Oh I agree Goat. Him being fired after a few years would certainly be a possibility. I don't want to ged rid of Mullen. People even thinking that are crazy. He has done a great job in 5 years considering where we were. I wonder how Hud would stack up against Mullen as far as coaching ability. I think Hud would be the better recruiter of the two but can he coach and run an SEC football program? I certainly don't know that answer.

[Coach34]

Hud would be a good football coach- but he wouldnt have the program competing for SEC West titles on a regular basis either. We would be in the same place- a 6-8 win football program.

State, Ole Miss, UPig need a special coach to come in to make them consistent, and then put together a special group for a 1 or 2 run to challenge for the title. We have that in Mullen, UPig had that in Petrino, OM may have that in Freezus...

We were a program just 5 years ago that was begging to just become a regular bowl team. Now that we are here, people are still bitching. We all want to win the West- but good lord people, having some stability and being perenniel bowl team for a change feels good to some of us.

Why were chosen to play Ok State? Because Mullen elevated the program.
Detractors say going to a bowl is easy now- yet only 50% of the SEC has been to 3 straight like we have
All the teams we lose to are winning 10+ games per season- OR they are on the road

2013 is a big season. Our staff understands that. This team should respond.

[Goat Holder]

State, Ole Miss, UPig need a special coach to come in to make them consistent, and then put together a special group for a 1 or 2 run to challenge for the title. We have that in Mullen, UPig had that in Petrino, OM may have that in Freezus...

I agree with this, but I think State, Ole Miss and South Carolina are a little more comparable. I think Arkansas is more comparable to Kentucky or say, Nebraska. The former 3 are located in states with proximity to alot of talent, but they also share the state with another big school (in MSU and OM's case, each other). Arkansas and Kentucky generally have the whole state to themselves and with that the money and resources, but they have no talent in close proximity. Over time I think the money wins out, albeit by just a little bit. So generally Arkansas/Kentucky will have the better coaches while MSU and Ole Miss will have the better players. I'm talking GENERAL here. So the conclusion is that if MSU and OM can up the money and get above average coaches, we should be able to pull even.

Talent is a big deal in this day and age. Guys aren't travelling to play ball anymore, guys in Florida/Texas/Georgia have many good options near home and don't have to go play for Nebraska or Arkansas.

But this is all just to stay at that 7-9 win mark. All of those schools have to do some outside the box thinking to be a true title contender. That's what I want MSU to do. Yeah, I know, easier said than done. Most assume let's go out and out-recruit people by any means necessary, like Ole Miss. But I think that's a dead end road that won't be won. Freeze will find this out the hard way.

[Drugdog]

Well, considering our fans unrealistic expectations, and how much vitriol we spewed towards Cohen, I'd count on that being a reality. Because fact of the matter is, football won't win as much as baseball thus offsetting the hatred. I mean let's face it we have fans that want Mullen fired right now based on propaganda from outside our campus. We eat our own, always have. Look how many people absolutely hate Ron Polk.

Polk caused the hatred on himself. This is a HIM problem.
And yes, I am in the camp of taking his name off.

[Sandman14]

and you probably would be the same type person that wouldn't speak to a family member for the last 15 or 20 years of the person's life just because that person got old and pissed you off by being demented and irrational.

[Drugdog]

Sandman,
No. I am the very forgiving type. I am currently taking care of my 83 yr old mother and had my 83 yr old father in law living with me unt his death 2 weeks ago.
I personally don't like what Polk did to our program. That's my opinion.

[AROB44]

If MSU learned anything from the Polk saga / tragedy.....it should be that you never name a stadium / ball park after a living coach. You just never know what is going to happen to that person. Personally, I wanted his name off the Dude when he went to Ga. Thought he was a traitor then and still do. And I am a baseball endowed scholarship donor.

[Coach34]

Polk caused the hatred on himself. This is a HIM problem.
And yes, I am in the camp of taking his name off.

I agree- the Polk venom is from him running his mouth. I could forgive him not leaving the campus the last 2 seasons even once to recruit had he just retired and shut the **** up. The temper tantrum changed all that.

[Sandman14]

Sandman,
No. I am the very forgiving type. I am currently taking care of my 83 yr old mother and had my 83 yr old father in law living with me unt his death 2 weeks ago.
I personally don't like what Polk did to our program. That's my opinion.

I think it's great you are taking care of family. I would as well.

I was just trying to make the point that you can't be holding a grudge with Polk. Who cares if he's tried to be an ass? That has not affected us. We just did better than we've ever done in history, only five years after he left. We've won championships the last three years. Polk did more for the baseball program than anyone in history. Let's give him, say, 100 bonus points for that. No one else has more than 50 bonus points in history of MSU baseball. So now that he burned maybe 10 of his bonus points, he still has 90. You can't let him destroy his own legacy by his stupidity at this point. All those years count for something. So you just graciously take it on the chin and do what you need to do to move forward (hire Cohen). Its really not that big of a deal.

[Drugdog]

Agree to disagree. I was a huge Polk fan, but when he attempted to burn the program down, and somewhat did, then I cannot support that, it was HIS decision to act as he did not mine.
He burned the bridge, MSU. Did not.
I did enjoy his supportive comments about this year National Champioship runner up team. Oh wait.... He said nothing in support of us, but yet you want to support him?
That's your choice not mine, which is ok with me too.
As I said agree to disagree.

[CadaverDawg]

Agree to disagree. I was a huge Polk fan, but when he attempted to burn the program down, and somewhat did, then I cannot support that, it was HIS decision to act as he did not mine.
He burned the bridge, MSU. Did not.
I did enjoy his supportive comments about this year National Champioship runner up team. Oh wait.... He said nothing in support of us, but yet you want to support him?
That's your choice not mine, which is ok with me too.
As I said agree to disagree.

Completely agree.

[Goat Holder]

I don't support Ron Polk. At all. I just don't hate him, and I don't want to take his name off the stadium.

[Sandman14]

I support Ron Polk and appreciate all he's done for MSU baseball. He's no Joe Paterno. He hasn't done anything criminal. He just lost his cool when he was run out on a rail and didn't get to name his successor.

Old dudes that get infuriated when they realize life is passing them by...they don't typically come back on bended knee to apologize.

It's fine for you to have your opinion. My point is that you end up further damaging yourself and your own baseball "family" by acting adverse to him. That's why Cohen doesn't do so. He "gets it." In my humble opinion, you should take a cue from him and realize that your perspective is not the best one to have. If Cohen acts as he does toward Polk, fans should honor Cohen, and Polk as well, but following suit.

[CadaverDawg]

I support Ron Polk and appreciate all he's done for MSU baseball. He's no Joe Paterno. He hasn't done anything criminal. He just lost his cool when he was run out on a rail and didn't get to name his successor.

Old dudes that get infuriated when they realize life is passing them by...they don't typically come back on bended knee to apologize.

It's fine for you to have your opinion. My point is that you end up further damaging yourself and your own baseball "family" by acting adverse to him. That's why Cohens doesn't do so. He "gets it." In my humble opinion, you should take a cue from him and realize that your perspective is not the best one to have. If Cohens acts as he does toward Polk, fans should honor Cohens, and Polk as well, but following suit.

Cohen....no "s"...doesn't really have a choice but to support Ron Polk, because their are several old timers that still love Polk. If you think deep down Cohen...no "s"....doesn't feel the same way we do, you're crazy.

And I think it's funny that you want to act like Drugdog is "damaging the baseball family", yet you give Polk a pass on absolutely splitting the fan base and severely "damaging the family".

[Coach34]

I support Ron Polk and appreciate all he's done for MSU baseball. He's no Joe Paterno. He hasn't done anything criminal. He just lost his cool when he was run out on a rail and didn't get to name his successor.
.


well, it's also the 3-4 years of behind the back venom he spewed against Cohen as well. It wasnt just the temper-tantrum when we hired Cohen,he kept up the vendetta and forced people to choose sides. Now those people just ignore him

[DownwardDawg]

Who do y'all think Polk was cheering for? MSU or UCLA?? Just wondering.

[CadaverDawg]

Who do y'all think Polk was cheering for? MSU or UCLA?? Just wondering.

UCLA

[Sandman14]

Cohen....no "s"...doesn't really have a choice but to support Ron Polk, because their are several old timers that still love Polk. If you think deep down Cohen...no "s"....doesn't feel the same way we do, you're crazy.

And I think it's funny that you want to act like Drugdog is "damaging the baseball family", yet you give Polk a pass on absolutely splitting the fan base and severely "damaging the family".

First, you can't even spot humor. It's cohen, ***whipe!

Second, I don't think I said drug dog was damaging anything. That's you.

Third, I already made the point that we have actually not been damaged by Polk, as evidenced by our championships the last 3 years, but even if we had been, polks benefit to MSU baseball outweighs any damage by 10 fold or more.

Get it straight, son.

[Sandman14]

And no, Cohen played for Polk. I doubt he harbors ill-will toward the living legend. He knows what's up. Change is hard after 30 years or whatever. It's life. Part of what made Polk such an ass at the end probably had something to do with his success during his career.

[Sandman14]

MSU actually owes polk, in part, for this season's success. Without polk, cohen would not be the man he is.

[CadaverDawg]

First, you can't even spot humor. It's cohens, asswhipe!

Second, I don't think I said drug dog was damaging anything. That's you.

Third, I already made the point that we have actually not been damaged by Polk, as evidenced by our championships the last 3 years, but even if we had been, polks benefit to MSU baseball outweighs any damage by 10 fold or more.

Get it straight, son.

You're terrible.

First off, this isn't SixPackSpeak, so it's "Cohen". Besides, even on SPS it's "Cohenz".

Second, yes you said DrugDog's mentality towards Polk is damaging to the family...look back at it. And, you ignored my point about how much Polk has damaged the family..FAMILY...I didn't say Cohen hasn't overcome it and won anyway...I'm saying he split the fan base and hurt the FAMILY...and Im right about that.

Maybe you should get it straight, son. You are constantly making outlandish statements based on your opinions and acting like they are facts. I'm not trying to be an ass, but maybe start reading up on everything that happened, and looking up some facts, before jumping in to a discussion where you are telling someone they are wrong. Just sayin.

[CadaverDawg]

MSU actually owes polk, in part, for this season's success. Without polk, cohens would not be the man he is.

Haha, another brilliant statement. Are you kidding me?

Cohen OVERCAME Polk to do what he did this year. He doesn't owe Polk shit for this season.

[CadaverDawg]

Second, I don't think I said drug dog was damaging anything. That's you..

Here's an example of facts, and how you prove a point....

You said you didn't say that about DrugDog, yet below is your actual quote after he said he is against Polk...

"My point is that you end up further damaging yourself and your own baseball "family" by acting adverse to him."

So, YES, you did say that DrugDog was "damaging the family" by having that opinion.

[Sandman14]

What drug dog does us irrelevant. He and I and you, singularly, are irrelevant. I was speaking proverbially.

You aren't what they call a "high IQ" guy, are you cadaver.

As for your love of SixPackSpeak, that's irrelevant. Point is that you don't even realize the level of the conversation, so I can't really blame you for your arguments.

Yes, without Polk, it is much less likely that we play for the national title in 2013. If you can't agree on that, you refuse to acknowledge the obvious.

Get it straight young man! Get your head out of the sand! And that's straight from the Sandman himself, son!

[Sandman14]

100% that it does no one any good to harbor ill will toward Polk. 100%.

[Sandman14]

It can only do damage, son!

[Sandman14]

Damage to "the family," son!

[CadaverDawg]

What drug dog does us irrelevant. He and I and you, singularly, are irrelevant. I was speaking proverbially.

You aren't what they call a "high IQ" guy, are you cadaver.

As for your love of SixPackSpeak, that's irrelevant. Point is that you don't even realize the level of the conversation, so I can't really blame you for your arguments.

Yes, without Polk, it is much less likely that we play for the national title in 2013. If you can't agree on that, you refuse to acknowledge the obvious.

Get it straight young man! Get your head out of the sand! And that's straight from the Sandman himself, son!

Haha, I'm low IQ yet you are daily being told how you need to read more and post less because your points are always ridiculous. Good try, SON!!!!!!1!!1!

You are the worst poster on this board. You basically just said I was right when I proved you wrong , and then tried to just change the subject by saying "SON, SON!!!1!1". Typical great Sandman logic.

ETA: If your last 3 posts show anything...it's that their is only 1 immature "young man" in this discussion, and it is the one calling someone "asswhipe" and using childish "head in the sand, from Sandman" references.

I'll just agree to disagree with your nonsense and move on to a real discussion.

[Todd4State]

Polk did a lot of good things, but at the end he did a lot of things that hurt us as well. He has badmouthed Cohen behind his back to players- including some of the current ones. I think we could and should have done better during Cohen's first two years but I think Polk bashing Cohen to the players really hurt at this time.

He tried to sabotage the coaching search to get what he wanted. He has badmouthed Cohen to alumni- and that even further split the fan base.

It's just sad.

[CadaverDawg]

Polk did a lot of good things, but at the end he did a lot of things that hurt us as well. He has badmouthed Cohen behind his back to players- including some of the current ones. I think we could and should have done better during Cohen's first two years but I think Polk bashing Cohen to the players really hurt at this time.

He tried to sabotage the coaching search to get what he wanted. He has badmouthed Cohen to alumni- and that even further split the fan base.

It's just sad.

Exactly.

[Original48]

As I posted to someone like Sandman on sixpack.

Some people still dont want to see it..and I get that. But I have no reason to doubt information from someone who loves Ron Polk very much. Let me ask you this. It's obvious you care a lot about Polk. And many do. As did I pre 2008. But did you ever in your lifetime believe that a man who had done so much for a school would turn on a dime and try to sabotage a job search, beg a former player not to take the job, contact boosters and former players and ask them to stop supporting the program, publicly demean and childishly criticize our AD, threaten to take his name off the field and withhold financial support among who knows what else? I never saw that coming. And he is STILL not over it. So with that..I can tell you it didnt take the conversation I had the other evening to have a good idea where Polk stands in relation to Mississippi State winning the CWS in a manner that was not blessed by him. And in case people have forgotten...from AP June 7, 2008...

"I wouldn't be who I am without Ron Polk," Cohen told fans in Starkville. "I understand his position and I admire his loyalty. Obviously I'd love to have his support. But we've still got to win a national championship, and that is my primary goal. For Mississippi State baseball, anything less than Omaha is unacceptable."
?"When incoming athletic director Greg Byrne made Cohen, and not Raffo, his first hire, Polk lashed out. He called the 36-year-old Byrne unqualified and said he will be taking his name off the stadium and the athletic department out of his will."
"Polk said Friday in an interview with The Associated Press that he asked Cohen not to move so Raffo, Cohen's former Bulldogs teammate under Polk from 1987-90, could get a shot at his first head coaching job. He threatened to actively work to dismantle key components of a program he helped build into one of the nation's best."
"I'm not totally ticked off at John," Polk said in a phone interview from Athens, Ga., where he is attending a super regional at Georgia. "This is not John. This is Greg Byrne. John felt like if he didn't take it, someone else would. I told John everything I was going to do and he still took the job. Boy, he must've really wanted it bad."

Somebody tells me they are going to "dismantle key components" of our program, I have to take them at their word.

[Sandman14]

So Todd, you seem to be more of a rationale debate guy.

Do you harbor ill will for the man that built SEC and MSU baseball? If so, what good do you think this can do? To me, any negative energy is bad for the program, "harness the good, block out the bad. Harness. Good. Blok. Bad. It's like a carasell, it goes up down, and around."

Why not take the good and ignore the bad. How does it help to focus on the sadness and perpetuate the hate rather than put it to rest?

Cadaver: I own you, son!

[CadaverDawg]

Cadaver: I own you, son!

Shocking post from you.

[CadaverDawg]

As I posted to someone like Sandman on sixpack.

Some people still dont want to see it..and I get that. But I have no reason to doubt information from someone who loves Ron Polk very much. Let me ask you this. It's obvious you care a lot about Polk. And many do. As did I pre 2008. But did you ever in your lifetime believe that a man who had done so much for a school would turn on a dime and try to sabotage a job search, beg a former player not to take the job, contact boosters and former players and ask them to stop supporting the program, publicly demean and childishly criticize our AD, threaten to take his name off the field and withhold financial support among who knows what else? I never saw that coming. And he is STILL not over it. So with that..I can tell you it didnt take the conversation I had the other evening to have a good idea where Polk stands in relation to Mississippi State winning the CWS in a manner that was not blessed by him. And in case people have forgotten...from AP June 7, 2008...

"I wouldn't be who I am without Ron Polk," Cohen told fans in Starkville. "I understand his position and I admire his loyalty. Obviously I'd love to have his support. But we've still got to win a national championship, and that is my primary goal. For Mississippi State baseball, anything less than Omaha is unacceptable."
?"When incoming athletic director Greg Byrne made Cohen, and not Raffo, his first hire, Polk lashed out. He called the 36-year-old Byrne unqualified and said he will be taking his name off the stadium and the athletic department out of his will."
"Polk said Friday in an interview with The Associated Press that he asked Cohen not to move so Raffo, Cohen's former Bulldogs teammate under Polk from 1987-90, could get a shot at his first head coaching job. He threatened to actively work to dismantle key components of a program he helped build into one of the nation's best."
"I'm not totally ticked off at John," Polk said in a phone interview from Athens, Ga., where he is attending a super regional at Georgia. "This is not John. This is Greg Byrne. John felt like if he didn't take it, someone else would. I told John everything I was going to do and he still took the job. Boy, he must've really wanted it bad."

Somebody tells me they are going to "dismantle key components" of our program, I have to take them at their word.

I'm glad you posted this here O48.

[Sandman14]

As I posted to someone like Sandman on sixpack.

Some people still dont want to see it..and I get that. But I have no reason to doubt information from someone who loves Ron Polk very much. Let me ask you this. It's obvious you care a lot about Polk. And many do. As did I pre 2008. But did you ever in your lifetime believe that a man who had done so much for a school would turn on a dime and try to sabotage a job search, beg a former player not to take the job, contact boosters and former players and ask them to stop supporting the program, publicly demean and childishly criticize our AD, threaten to take his name off the field and withhold financial support among who knows what else? I never saw that coming. And he is STILL not over it. So with that..I can tell you it didnt take the conversation I had the other evening to have a good idea where Polk stands in relation to Mississippi State winning the CWS in a manner that was not blessed by him. And in case people have forgotten...from AP June 7, 2008...

"I wouldn't be who I am without Ron Polk," Cohen told fans in Starkville. "I understand his position and I admire his loyalty. Obviously I'd love to have his support. But we've still got to win a national championship, and that is my primary goal. For Mississippi State baseball, anything less than Omaha is unacceptable."
?"When incoming athletic director Greg Byrne made Cohen, and not Raffo, his first hire, Polk lashed out. He called the 36-year-old Byrne unqualified and said he will be taking his name off the stadium and the athletic department out of his will."
"Polk said Friday in an interview with The Associated Press that he asked Cohen not to move so Raffo, Cohen's former Bulldogs teammate under Polk from 1987-90, could get a shot at his first head coaching job. He threatened to actively work to dismantle key components of a program he helped build into one of the nation's best."
"I'm not totally ticked off at John," Polk said in a phone interview from Athens, Ga., where he is attending a super regional at Georgia. "This is not John. This is Greg Byrne. John felt like if he didn't take it, someone else would. I told John everything I was going to do and he still took the job. Boy, he must've really wanted it bad."

Somebody tells me they are going to "dismantle key components" of our program, I have to take them at their word.

Who cares what an old, retired man says? He made MSU baseball. And e made John Cohen.

Harness. Good. Block. Bad.

When someone has dimentia, you don't listen to the BS they spew. You just continue to love em and remember the great things they did for you.

A great majority of polks players love him. There is a reason for that. And most who maintain animosity for Polk really are just message board guys and not folks on the inside."

The other day my dog ate my homework. I said "I hate you you little Motherfuker. I'm gonna kill you!"

But I didn't kill him. We cool now.

[Coach34]

MSU actually owes polk, in part, for this season's success. Without polk, cohens would not be the man he is.

wrong

State was a winner in baseball before Polk got to State- Polk only won 4 of our 16 SEC titles. And as you see, State is a winner after Polk

[Sandman14]

The difference is that no one in the nation cared about baseball then. Winning titles pre-1982 means you beat a bunch of nobodies. That's like tcu's titles in football, who cares? They wore leather helmets then.

So now you guys won't even admit Polk made MSU baseball...when skip Bertman admits it was him and Polk that made SEC baseball. Funny.

[Coach34]

Who cares what an old, retired man says? He made MSU baseball.
.

aGAIN- Polk only won 1/4 out our SEC titles. We went to Omaha before Polk- and we've had two coaches go after him

As far as not caring what an old man says- thats one thing. But Polk ACTIVELY did things to sabatoge the program after Cohen got the job. That's not just "saying things"

[Coach34]

The difference is that no one in the nation cared about baseball then. Winning titles pre-1982 means you beat a bunch of nobodies. That's like tcu's titles in football, who cares? They wore leather helmets then.

So now you guys won't even admit Polk made MSU baseball...when skip Bertman admits it was him and Polk that made SEC baseball. Funny.

Polk elevated the program- got a stadium built. But Miss State has always been a winner in baseball. Polk didnt build that- it was already here.

Polk certainly made a huge contribution to college baseball and elevating it's importance. But you are talking about two different things

[CadaverDawg]

aGAIN- Polk only won 1/4 out our SEC titles. We went to Omaha before Polk- and we've had two coaches go after him

As far as not caring what an old man says- thats one thing. But Polk ACTIVELY did things to sabatoge the program after Cohen got the job. That's not just "saying things"

It's like going over to Whitfield in Pearl and trying to talk sense into someone, Coach. Dude is constantly making these claims, and then when 200 people prove him wrong, he just starts going on tangents.

Polk had an instrumental part of our baseball program, but he thinks he is bigger than the baseball program and he is not. I still loved the guy even after I heard that he wanted Raffo....but when he started bad mouthing our AD, bad mouthing our program, bad mouthing Cohen for taking the job, turning former players and boosters on the program, and withdrawing support...I changed my views. Why? Because my allegiance is to MSU, not Ron Polk.

He doesn't have to be a positive to our program like Jackie is with football, but I won't support a guy that tries to tear down our program and hamper its progression...no matter if he helped build it or not

[engie]

well, it's also the 3-4 years of behind the back venom he spewed against Cohen as well. It wasnt just the temper-tantrum when we hired Cohen,he kept up the vendetta and forced people to choose sides. Now those people just ignore him

This exactly.

It's like Sandman read the prologue and the prequel and is trying to judge the rest of the book from that. He skipped right over what's happened in the 5 years since Polk's initial rampage. Missed the sabotage that was ongoing behind the scenes as long as Polk still had anyone's ears or attention. He made Cohen's job MUCH, MUCHHHH harder than it had to be -- and he did it right up until the last of our fanbase quit listening to him after the SEC tourney run last year. He still HATES Cohen and will NEVER support our fanbase with him at the helm.

You can believe that or not -- but circumstantial evidence ABOUNDS in support of that fact.
- Where was his congrats this year? Where was his support?
- He said his ire was directed at Byrne not Cohen. Why, then, has he not come back around? Because he lied up front.
- He's had former players as recently as last year bad mouthing Cohen by every means necessary. Steve Gendron anyone?
- He STILL talks about his disdain for Cohen to former players behind the scenes. I've heard this firsthand from 2 completely separate buddies that aren't still in contact with each other that played on our 07 Omaha team. For YEARS, these guys trusted him and believed it. Now, like the rest of us, they've basically hit the mute button and admitted that the right decisions were made.

To say "Polk's sabotage didn't matter because we actually made it back to the top" is bullshit. What if we had his support all along? What if his players weren't sabotaging recruiting visits by telling guys not to come play at MSU for Cohen? What then? Have we already been to Omaha twice and won it this year? Quite possibly. He made the rebuild MUCH more lengthy and MUCH more difficult than it had to be. That, to me, is still a problem.

Just because you survive sabotage and eventually get back to where you want to be doesn't mean that the sabotage still wasn't damaging.

[Sandman14]

Well to get away from all the belligerent stuff (which is all in jest), the fact remains that no one can articulate a good reason to keep the hatred for Polk alive.

We've heard what Polk did is "sad." agreed. It was "sorry." agreed. Whatever else.

Why is it beneficial to wipe him out? It cannot help us. It can only hurt.

[CadaverDawg]

This exactly.

It's like Sandman read the prologue and the prequel and is trying to judge the rest of the book from that. He skipped right over what's happened in the 5 years since Polk's initial rampage. Missed the sabotage that was ongoing behind the scenes as long as Polk still had anyone's ears or attention. He made Cohen's job MUCH, MUCHHHH harder than it had to be -- and he did it right up until the last of our fanbase quit listening to him after the SEC tourney run last year. He still HATES Cohen and will NEVER support our fanbase with him at the helm.

You can believe that or not -- but circumstantial evidence ABOUNDS in support of that fact.
- Where was his congrats this year? Where was his support?
- He said his ire was directed at Byrne not Cohen. Why, then, has he not come back around? Because he lied up front.
- He's had former players as recently as last year bad mouthing Cohen by every means necessary. Steve Gendron anyone?
- He STILL talks about his disdain for Cohen to former players behind the scenes. I've heard this firsthand from 2 completely separate buddies that aren't still in contact with each other that played on our 07 Omaha team. For YEARS, these guys trusted him and believed it. Now, like the rest of us, they've basically hit the mute button and admitted that the right decisions were made.

To say "Polk's sabotage didn't matter because we actually made it back to the top" is bullshit. What if we had his support all along? What if his players weren't sabotaging recruiting visits by telling guys not to come play at MSU for Cohen? What then? Have we already been to Omaha twice and won it this year? Quite possibly. He made the rebuild MUCH more lengthy and MUCH more difficult than it had to be. That, to me, is still a problem.

Just because you survive sabotage and eventually get back to where you want to be doesn't mean that the sabotage still wasn't damaging.

Very well said, as usual.

[Original48]

Why is it beneficial to wipe him out? It cannot help us. It can only hurt.
You are missing the point. HE wiped US out.

[Sandman14]

You are missing the point. HE wiped US out.

How? From where I'm standing, we are doing just fine.

What Ron Polk says and does now is irrelevant. He can never take from MSU what he has given. He has tried to do so, in his old age stupidity and loneliness, and he has failed. So now that we are back on top of the mountain, why do you still care?

[SaltyDawg]

If you don't feed the stray kitten it will move along to the next house.

[Sandman14]

This exactly.

It's like Sandman read the prologue and the prequel and is trying to judge the rest of the book from that. He skipped right over what's happened in the 5 years since Polk's initial rampage. Missed the sabotage that was ongoing behind the scenes as long as Polk still had anyone's ears or attention. He made Cohen's job MUCH, MUCHHHH harder than it had to be -- and he did it right up until the last of our fanbase quit listening to him after the SEC tourney run last year. He still HATES Cohen and will NEVER support our fanbase with him at the helm.

You can believe that or not -- but circumstantial evidence ABOUNDS in support of that fact.
- Where was his congrats this year? Where was his support?
- He said his ire was directed at Byrne not Cohen. Why, then, has he not come back around? Because he lied up front.
- He's had former players as recently as last year bad mouthing Cohen by every means necessary. Steve Gendron anyone?
- He STILL talks about his disdain for Cohen to former players behind the scenes. I've heard this firsthand from 2 completely separate buddies that aren't still in contact with each other that played on our 07 Omaha team. For YEARS, these guys trusted him and believed it. Now, like the rest of us, they've basically hit the mute button and admitted that the right decisions were made.

To say "Polk's sabotage didn't matter because we actually made it back to the top" is bullshit. What if we had his support all along? What if his players weren't sabotaging recruiting visits by telling guys not to come play at MSU for Cohen? What then? Have we already been to Omaha twice and won it this year? Quite possibly. He made the rebuild MUCH more lengthy and MUCH more difficult than it had to be. That, to me, is still a problem.

Just because you survive sabotage and eventually get back to where you want to be doesn't mean that the sabotage still wasn't damaging.

This is pretty comical. The book started back in mid-70's with college baseball being about like college soccer is now. No one gave a shit.

The book needs to have about 1000 chapters of great things Polk did from 1976-2007's run to the college world series.

Then, the book needs to have a few chapters about how Polk's life was torn apart when he lost his edge and refused to go quietly and instead went kicking and screaming.

Then the book needs to pick up with how we hired a Ron-Polk former player to lead us back to prominence.

I don't care what Polk does, he can never do more to damage MSU than he did to help it. So you should find someone else to hate on. Not one of the legends of MSU athletics.

Getting old is hard. I'm sure on Ron Polk's deathbed he will have regret for the way he handled himself going out the door. It is truly sad. Get over it and move on. Celebrate the good things in life, including your heritage.

[engie]

Who cares what an old, retired man says? He made MSU baseball.

Please, just stop.

MSU built MSU baseball. Ron Polk was along for the ride(until he quit on us 3 different times). We were good prior to Polk. We are good after Polk. We had LFL prior to Polk. We had fan support prior to Polk. That FAN SUPPORT was what spurred us to become the first SEC school to pay a single-purpose full-time baseball coach(Polk). All the previous coaches in the conference had to multitask in other things and couldn't spend all year recruiting, etc...So, you see, we gave Polk EVERY advantage to be successful in a time when we had all the "unfair" advantages in our favor. Once LSU picked up and decided they cared, Polk was reduced to a has-been.

You do realize he would have been nothing but mediocre from 91 on if not for a miraculous 1994 recruiting class that effectively saved his legacy in the 97 and 98 run? I'm still 100% convinced that he quit caring when Cohen walked off the field in 90. Time -- and Cohen's success -- will show us to what extent Polk quit on us back then...THAT is what he's truly afraid of...

[Sandman14]

What you are saying is ridiculous. You are kidding yourself, just like when you made the push to convince others that Georgia baseball was top 5 in the country. Ron Polk wasn't along for the ride. He's a living legend.

It's obvious that you are a very knowledgeable person, especially regarding baseball. So this is very confusing as to why you would try your best to reduce to rubble one of the best things about our whole athletic history. And it's all over Ron Polk getting old and leaving kicking and screaming. It happens all the time. Brett Favre tried to ruin the Packers. So what. Now they are bringing him back. It gets personal when a legend's time is up. Don't sweat it. We are past it. Time to heal up, with or without Polk's help.

[Sandman14]

Easy pull, I'm sure you'll say it's all hogwash:

Ronald George (Ron) Polk (born January 12, 1944) was a long-time head baseball coach at Mississippi State and is considered the "Father of SEC Baseball". He is by far the winningest coach in school and SEC history in all sports. In 31 seasons as an SEC coach, he has to date compiled a 1139-590-2 (.667) record. His career record stands at 1373-702-2. He currently ranks 8th on the all time wins list. His teams have won five SEC championships, including four SEC tournament championships. His teams have made it to the NCAA tournament 23 times, and have reached the College World Series 8 times. On March 27, 2008, he announced his resignation, effective the end of the 2008 season.
187 of his former players as a Head Coach have signed professional baseball contracts. 27 of these players have played in the major leagues He has coached 35 All-Americans and 76 All-Southeastern Conference players. Had 8 players picked in the first round in the professional baseball draft during his tenure at Mississippi State. He is one of only three coaches in college baseball history to coach at three different schools that have played in the College Word Series in Omaha, Nebraska.Georgia Southern University-1973; Mississippi State University- 1979, 1981, 1985, 1990, 1997, 2007; University of Georgia- 2001. He has coached teams that have played in Omaha in five decades (nine appearances) as he was an assistant coach at the University of Arizona in 1966when they played in the College World Series. Four of his teams at Mississippi Sate were ranked number one in the country during parts of each season (1985-89-92-06).
He is a member of the following Halls of Fame; Georgia Southern University Hall of fame (1990). American Baseball Coaches Association Hall of Fame (1995). State of Mississippi Athletic Hall of Fame (1998). Mississippi State University Athletic Hall of Fame (1998). National College Baseball Hall of Fame (2009). He is a Former President of the American baseball Coaches Association (1985). Winner of the Lefty Gomez Award which is the highest award given by the American Baseball Coaches Association (1988). Mississippi State University named the baseball stadium The Polk-Dement Stadium (1997). Coach Polk has also completed seven tours on the U.S.A. National baseball team coaching staff serving as the head coach two times and as an assistant five times. He has coached in the Olympic Games two times once Seoul, South Korea in 1988 when the team one the gold medal and the other in Atlanta, Georgia in 1996 when the team won the Bronze medal. Polk has authored two textbooks- The Baseball Playbook and The Baseball-Softball Playbook. These two textbooks are the leading teaching textbooks used in teaching baseball and softball classes in Colleges and Universities.
From 1972 to 1975, he served as the head coach at Georgia Southern. From 2000 to 2001, he coached at Georgia. He has also served as an assistant coach at Arizona, and New Mexico.
On July 28, 2008, Polk was announced as a volunteer assistant coach for the University of Alabama at Birmingham Blazers baseball squad. The Blazers are coached by Polk's former MSU assistant Brian Shoop.
On March 24, 2009, Polk, along with former Mississippi State player, Rafael Palmeiro, was elected to College Baseball's Hall of Fame.
Coach Polk now coaches each summer in the Cape Cod league with the Wareham Gatemen baseball team.[1] The 2012 Wareham Gateman claimed the Cape Cod League championship.[2]

[engie]

What you are saying is ridiculous. You are kidding yourself, just like when you made the push to convince others that Georgia baseball was top 5 in the country. Ron Polk wasn't along for the ride. He's a living legend.
According to whom? The worship for the guy is ridiculous. He did ALOT for SEC baseball and promoting college baseball in general. Did more for those two than he actually did for MSU. THAT'S why he is considered a legend around the country.


It's obvious that you are a very knowledgeable person, especially regarding baseball. So this is very confusing as to why you would try your best to reduce to rubble one of the best things about our whole athletic history.
Todd, Coach, and others here know the EXACT reasons that I'm so low on Polk. It's because I saw how things were done from the inside during Polk2 and have previously relayed that information to them. I won't go into specifics on the public board -- but suffice to say that a lot of the legend was a facade -- and that problem "was ongoing" in 2002 not 2006 or 07 as others have suggested. Prior to that, I can't speak from personal experience...


And it's all over Ron Polk getting old and leaving kicking and screaming. It happens all the time. Brett Favre tried to ruin the Packers. So what. Now they are bringing him back. It gets personal when a legend's time is up. Don't sweat it. We are past it. Time to heal up, with or without Polk's help.
We are healed last I checked. We broke our all-time overall attendance records last year. Before this run. The fanbase has moved on without Polk and is getting bigger and better. That doesn't mean we have to forgive and forget sabotage from a guy that hasn't even apologized. Sorry -- but that grudge exists with me -- and it will exist EVERY time I look at Swayze Field and know that it was built on the backs of lifelong MSU fans that Polk didn't bother recruiting...

[Sandman14]

fair enough. I wish the man would apologize. hopefully that would be enough for folks of your mindset.

[Todd4State]

So Todd, you seem to be more of a rationale debate guy.

Do you harbor ill will for the man that built SEC and MSU baseball? If so, what good do you think this can do? To me, any negative energy is bad for the program, "harness the good, block out the bad. Harness. Good. Blok. Bad. It's like a carasell, it goes up down, and around."

Why not take the good and ignore the bad. How does it help to focus on the sadness and perpetuate the hate rather than put it to rest?

Cadaver: I own you, son!


Ron Polk helped keep my Dad in school in 1976 by allowing him to keep his scholarship even though he had a broken collar bone and a concussion and couldn't play. I'm thankful to Polk for that. He has a good side to him- there is no doubt about that.

That said, I do have some ill will. Only because he hasn't apologized and I know how much damage he was causing behind the scene. I don't hate him, I don't really care if he takes his name off of the stadium or not. In fact, I do not hate anyone unless they are truly evil- think Hitler here when I use the term hate.

I think his book is really good especially as far as how to run a program and how to teach defense- as far as hitting and pitching not so much. I respect Polk, but I do not like his attitude towards the game where it was more about luck, the breaks- ie That's baseball- which places accountability on no one. I also did not like his attitude towards baseball and winning which I believe severely hindered our program in the 90's and also when he came back. Even worse, his attitude infected many of our baseball fans and has taken years to cleanse.

I know it infected me at one time- fortunately, I had an uncle that taught me the right way to play baseball and the value of hard work and accountability and it's relationship to success. Which is exactly the same way that they teach the game at the MLB level, and is exactly what Cohen is doing now.

I have met Polk, and as I said there are two sides to him. The nice side, and the extremely insecure side which lead him to act completely out of line. He wants people to believe that HE is the reason why MSU baseball is what it is when nothing could be further from the truth. We literally have a string of successful coaches going back to the early 1900's and the one who wasn't successful- Jimmy Bragan- was hired away by MLB after one year. Yes, his ex-players love him, but if you played for MSU and you didn't play for Polk, you are an outsider. Our media guide for baseball used to start at 1976. Coincidence? Probably not.

So, all that said- my biggest problem with Ron Polk is he truly believes that he is bigger than MSU and MSU baseball and until Greg Byrne put his foot down. He simply believed that he could use good ol' MSU as a platform to voice the evils of the NCAA and have HIS boys play baseball where it was about having a good college experience and NOT winning.

And here is some inside information that my Dad shared with me in 1990. Polk TOLD my Dad that if he couldn't win the CWS with Clark and Palmeiro, he simply wasn't going to. In other words- HE QUIT. And he quit before a lot of people realize. Our short sighted athletic administration kept him around even though we probably could have hired Augie Garrido in 1990 but we didn't. I was glad he left out on top in 1997. I was also extremely upset- like throwing f-bombs in front of my Mom in the kitchen upset- when we hired him back in 2001. Why? Because I KNEW he had no desire to win at MSU, and I knew he was going to use it as a platform for his petty BS. I'm not Nostradamous, but he was like that in 1997. When he was hired, I said it set our program back 10 years, and I pretty much nailed it. I also predicted the rise of Ole Miss at that time despite the fact that many of then Genespage had their freaking heads in the sand and just dismissed each successful season that they had as a fluke.

Oh- and as a Jacksonian, I REALLY didn't appreciate him treating the Mayor's Trophy like a freaking exhibition game when we were supposed to be the baseball school in the state and laid down like bitches FIVE years in a row until David freaking Murray of all people asked him why we couldn't win the Mayor's Trophy which pissed Polk off and ended with Polk yelling at him- "THIS ISN'T FOOTBALL." I don't expect to win that game every year, but I do ask that we be presentable and win more often than not.

So, I'll sum this up with this. To me, Ron Polk is sort of like Darth Vader. He did some good things, was a hero, had some good- even great moments. But he became power hungry and destroyed himself and did a lot of harm even though there may still be some good in him on the inside.

[Sandman14]

wow. that's a tremendous post. thank you, sir.

[maroonmania]

Please, just stop.

MSU built MSU baseball. Ron Polk was along for the ride(until he quit on us 3 different times). We were good prior to Polk. We are good after Polk. We had LFL prior to Polk. We had fan support prior to Polk. That FAN SUPPORT was what spurred us to become the first SEC school to pay a single-purpose full-time baseball coach(Polk). All the previous coaches in the conference had to multitask in other things and couldn't spend all year recruiting, etc...So, you see, we gave Polk EVERY advantage to be successful in a time when we had all the "unfair" advantages in our favor. Once LSU picked up and decided they cared, Polk was reduced to a has-been.

You do realize he would have been nothing but mediocre from 91 on if not for a miraculous 1994 recruiting class that effectively saved his legacy in the 97 and 98 run? I'm still 100% convinced that he quit caring when Cohen walked off the field in 90. Time -- and Cohen's success -- will show us to what extent Polk quit on us back then...THAT is what he's truly afraid of...

I agree with this, MSU fan allegiance is the single biggest thing that built MSU baseball, without that Polk couldn't have recruited the players he did to MSU. And I was in school during Polk's glory days in the mid-80s and he never did ONE thing that I was aware of to actually market the baseball team to fans. It sold itself. He may have been a good fundraiser behind the scenes but he never did anything publicly. We would have had a very good baseball program during Polk's early years (when we cared and no other schools did) with any fully competent baseball coach. And that's what gets me, most all of Polk's best success at MSU WAS when nobody else cared. And even when nobody else cared Polk couldn't get us a NC. And I agree about becoming a has been, once LSU primarily and then some others elevated their program we NEVER won another SEC championship under Polk (the regular season kind). Even the CWS years in the late 90s, IMO, were spearheaded primarily by the infused energy of having Pat McMahon back in the program. I was never really a big fan of Polk personally because I thought he was one of the most egotistical people that I ever met but I did very much admire what he contributed to Bulldog baseball over the years. But after the way he acted at the end of his second tenure and beyond when he VOLUNTARILY stepped down and made Cohen's job about twice as difficult as it should have been just because he didn't get to control everything related to who became his successor, a lot of that gratitude and admiration went away. And I have no doubt he has been working against us behind the scenes because he is a vindictive person when he feels he's been crossed. I will go so far as to say that I personally feel like if we don't get Preston Palmeiro it will be primarily because Raffy and Polk are still very close. Really no other reason for him NOT to come here.

And P.S., unless you can prove to me that someone is losing control of their mind, it does matter what they say and do at any age. And Polk is not THAT old anyway. Polk did what he did because that's the type of person he is, not because he's getting cranky in his old age.

[Todd4State]

I agree with this, MSU fan allegiance is the single biggest thing that built MSU baseball, without that Polk couldn't have recruited the players he did to MSU. And I was in school during Polk's glory days in the mid-80s and he never did ONE thing that I was aware of to actually market the baseball team to fans. It sold itself. He may have been a good fundraiser behind the scenes but he never did anything publicly. We would have had a very good baseball program during Polk's early years (when we cared and no other schools did) with any fully competent baseball coach. And that's what gets me, most all of Polk's best success at MSU WAS when nobody else cared. And even when nobody else cared Polk couldn't get us a NC. And I agree about becoming a has been, once LSU primarily and then some others elevated their program we NEVER won another SEC championship under Polk (the regular season kind). Even the CWS years in the late 90s, IMO, were spearheaded primarily by the infused energy of having Pat McMahon back in the program. I was never really a big fan of Polk personally because I thought he was one of the most egotistical people that I ever met but I did very much admire what he contributed to Bulldog baseball over the years. But after the way he acted at the end of his second tenure and beyond when he VOLUNTARILY stepped down and made Cohen's job about twice as difficult as it should have been just because he didn't get to control everything related to who became his successor, a lot of that gratitude and admiration went away. And I have no doubt he has been working against us behind the scenes because he is a vindictive person when he feels he's been crossed. I will go so far as to say that I personally feel like if we don't get Preston Palmeiro it will be primarily because Raffy and Polk are still very close. Really no other reason for him NOT to come here.

And P.S., unless you can prove to me that someone is losing control of their mind, it does matter what they say and do at any age. And Polk is not THAT old anyway. Polk did what he did because that's the type of person he is, not because he's getting cranky in his old age.

I think Polk's refusal to adapt to modern technology REALLY hurt him. I don't see how anyone can keep up with what's going on in the world in general- forget baseball- without technology.

And as far as LSU- again, I think that was Polk's ego. "We're going to be classy- unlike those guys from LSU that play with emotion." We're not going to copy the way they do things even though it is clearly working. Shoot- I was ALL for roiding up our guys and trying to outslug people at that time. I thought we were stupid not to do it, and heck I wonder why more people didn't do it.

[maroonmania]

I think Polk's refusal to adapt to modern technology REALLY hurt him. I don't see how anyone can keep up with what's going on in the world in general- forget baseball- without technology.

And as far as LSU- again, I think that was Polk's ego. "We're going to be classy- unlike those guys from LSU that play with emotion." We're not going to copy the way they do things even though it is clearly working. Shoot- I was ALL for roiding up our guys and trying to outslug people at that time. I thought we were stupid not to do it, and heck I wonder why more people didn't do it.

Polk was a baseball purist and would have never allowed anything like "roiding up" to win games. Polk would have rather lost games than to do anything to try and get an advantage or change strategy from his coveted book. Heck, his baseball "purism" is the primary reason he was one of the biggest spearheads in killing the Saturday DH in the SEC. Real baseball, per Polk, is played 9 innings and only one game in a day. That action there single handedly helped kill a good percentage of the crowds and atmosphere we had at MSU on SEC weekends at the time and the was the thing he had done that pissed me off the most until the temper tantrum at the end of his tenure.

[ScoobaDawg]

wrong

State was a winner in baseball before Polk got to State- Polk only won 4 of our 16 SEC titles. And as you see, State is a winner after Polk

DING F'n DONG. Polk did a lot for the sport but Gregory is due his respect.

and if Sandman14 hasn't got the hint... out coaches name is JOHN C-O-H-E-N

[DownwardDawg]

If you don't feed the stray kitten it will move along to the next house.

This is by far the best post in this thread. Please, for the love of God!!! Make it stop!!!!!

[SheltonChoked]

We won our first outright championship in baseball in 1908. The coaches name then was not Ron Polk. Polk should get some credit. But he did not build msu baseball.