New Baseball Poll

[I seen it dawg]

For the board...prob no need for commentary as you can imagine but feel free.

Hitting with 2 strikes....

1. Should you expect breaking ball and adjust to the fastball.

OR

2. Should you expect fastball and adjust for breaking ball.

[Smitty]

Change mine to "let fastball get deeper and take oppo, to better be on time with offspeed in offspeed counts"

[I seen it dawg]

Change mine to "let fastball get deeper and take oppo, to better be on time with offspeed in offspeed counts"

Ohhhh shit no. You been thumping your chest on this approach. No matter what you change your verbiage to it's still the same.

[engie]

Please tell me mods can see who votes on which side? This has potential to be a great measuring tool...

[BrunswickDawg]

In HS, I was always looking for breaking ball UNLESS it was a 3-2 count. Then I was looking for whatever we thought the guys "out" pitch was. Most times that was a fastball inner-half.

[Dawg61]

Hahaha Will James bro do you still not realize how stupid you're looking right now? No ****ing human can process information fast enough to afford not to sit on a 90 mph fastball. It's 60 ****ing feet away. You have .4 seconds to react to a 90 mph fastball. You gonna process curveball or fastball in .2 seconds dude? Good luck with that. You'll strike out 100 times in 100 tries.

[preachermatt83]

SO much of this depends on the pitcher and none of you clowns are realizing that... There is a thing called SCOUTING REPORTS!! What is the guys out pitch? that's what I'm looking for..

[I seen it dawg]

SO much of this depends on the pitcher and none of you clowns are realizing that... There is a thing called SCOUTING REPORTS!! What is the guys out pitch? that's what I'm looking for..

It doesn't matter what the report is...with 2 strikes you HAVE to look fastball first. If you aren't it's impossible to make contact if you are thrown one. Especially inner half. There is no debate here.

[Dawg61]

It doesn't matter what the report is...with 2 strikes you HAVE to look fastball first. If you aren't it's impossible to make contact if you are thrown one. Especially inner half. There is no debate here.

No you're both right. You can bet the odds but you're doing so knowing you're dead meat if thrown a fastball.

[Smitty]

Its not so much about what to "look for first" as it is selling out to the overall approach with the goal of not striking out..

By selling out to a short swing and oppo approach on the fastball you will be better on time for the off-speed, thus an overall better chance of a ball in play/contact on ANY pitch.

[engie]

SO much of this depends on the pitcher and none of you clowns are realizing that... There is a thing called SCOUTING REPORTS!! What is the guys out pitch? that's what I'm looking for..

There is not consistent 0-2 or 1-2 scouting reports on guys at this level because they have their entire arsenal to throw at you. I always sat on their "best pitch" early in the AB whatever that pitch was -- but once it gets to 2 strikes, you've got to adjust off fastball or else you have no prayer of doing anything with the fastball that you absolutely are going to see if you battle very long...

Until it gets to 3-2, you can't really assume you get his "out pitch" in those counts... Alot of times 0-2 or 1-2 is a called waste pitch. 6" out, high and tight, breaker in the dirt, etc. The backwards K's are what pisses me off about our guys. I'm infinitely better with a swing at a pitch in the dirt -- where you still put pressure on a defense and force a catcher to throw you out...

[I seen it dawg]

Its not so much about what to "look for first" as it is selling out to the overall approach with the goal of not striking out..

By selling out to a short swing and oppo approach on the fastball you will be better on time for the off-speed, thus an overall better chance of a ball in play/contact on ANY pitch.

Keep this in the other thread hoss.

[I seen it dawg]

Let's try to keep all the debate in the "Smitty" thread. Try to keep this one poll only please.

[I seen it dawg]

No you're both right. You can bet the odds but you're doing so knowing you're dead meat if thrown a fastball.

Which is the whole point

[engie]

Its not so much about what to "look for first" as it is selling out to the overall approach with the goal of not striking out..

By selling out to a short swing and oppo approach on the fastball you will be better on time for the off-speed, thus an overall better chance of a ball in play/contact on ANY pitch.

This is also known as a normal, Ron Polk, 2-strike approach. A philosophy that Cohen goes against -- which I don't particularly like -- but understand the philosophy behind -- and there has to be at least something to it with it becoming so prevalent at the MLB level.

This is a far cry from where you started off at in the debate...

[Smitty]

This is a far cry from where you started off at in the debate...

No, you thought adjust meant during the pitch.. Not adjusting your approach. You got a definition wrong and Engined for 4 pages without asking for clarification.

[I seen it dawg]

No, you thought adjust meant during the pitch.. Not adjusting your approach. You got a definition wrong and Engined for 4 pages without asking for clarification.

It's gone on so long you thought we would just forget where you started after I busted your ass. EXPECT breaking ball, adjust to fastball and take it oppo. It's wrong and because you've figured out we all know infinitely more than you you have wisely changed your argument. But won't admit it. Makes it even worse.

[Really Clark?]

It's gone on so long you thought we would just forget where you started after I busted your ass. EXPECT breaking ball, adjust to fastball and take it oppo. It's wrong and because you've figured out we all know infinitely more than you you have wisely changed your argument. But won't admit it. Makes it even worse.

Exactly!!

[bgover4]

This poll doesn't give the full story. Are the bases jammed? Has the pitcher been struggling? is the count full? What inning is it? Whats the score? There are a lot of factors that should be taken into consideration that define how agressive to play.

[engie]

This poll doesn't give the full story. Are the bases jammed? Has the pitcher been struggling? is the count full? What inning is it? Whats the score? There are a lot of factors that should be taken into consideration that define how agressive to play.

All of that is inconsequential to the question asked... What pitch is "most likely" to be thrown situationally doesn't have that much to do with the approach you have to take in order to be successful. One of those approaches is only applicable in a situation where it's ~ 80% or greater that you get a certain pitch. A number that's never actually achieved at the college(particularly SEC) level therefore an approach that should practically never be taken...

[RocketCityDawg]

It's hard to believe that everyone doesn't know this. Look fastball with 2 strikes should be as universally known as 3 strikes and you're out.

[sleepy dawg]

I voted for:
Expect (or sit) breaking ball and adjust to fastball

But it should be noted that I have no idea. I just figured more guys use breaking balls as their "out pitch" than fastball.

[Bama_Dawg]

My opinion is with 2 strikes you have to protect the plate. In order to do that you have to expect the fastball (due to reaction time), but in the back of your mind think about the nastiest off speed pitch the pitcher has.

My approach as a pitcher on a 2 strike count was I coming after you (it also depends on the count, some things I would never do with a 3-2 count, at that point it is really the pitcher vs batter). I wanted to keep my pitch count down to get further in the game, so depending on how the batter looked on my previous pitches (and where in the lineup he hits), that would determine my 2 strike pitch. If I've shown him my fastball and he's whiffed tremendously, I'm bringing it again, out of the strike zone, but too close for him to take. If he's fouled off 2 pitches in a row and we're in an 0-2 count, you can bet the catcher will be digging the next one out of the dirt. Another factor is how the umpire is calling. Is he calling where the ball crosses the plate (the correct way) or where the catcher catches it. This happens to a certain extent at all levels. Dang, I digress.. I could write many more paragraphs on this, but the original question was the approach on a 2 strike count and I gave my opinion straight away.

[MsStateBaseball]

1

[Homedawg]

Will james is an idiot. However, I don't know where this Ron Polk 2 strike approach bullshit got started. Trust me Ron never had anything other than a look fastball and adjust to curve w 2 strikes.

[Homedawg]

After looking at the poll, we have 5 morons that have never faced 80mph much less 85 or 90. Imagine that preacher and will have multiple votes. Otherwise we have more idiots than I thought

[engie]

However, I don't know where this Ron Polk 2 strike approach bullshit got started. Trust me Ron never had anything other than a look fastball and adjust to curve w 2 strikes.

That was me -- and you are basically repeating the "Ron Polk" approach I described in the other thread. I played for Polk's most successful GA coaching in HS in the late 90s/early 00s. MSU was the base for that system -- but certainly not the totality. There was elements of Bertman, Bianco, and Gene Stephenson in there as well. That said, our 2 strike approach was textbook Polk. Choke up, scoot up, spread out, take out the lower half, hit the fastball, fight off the breaker, and a backward K earned your ass a 60 second triangle at practice the next day...

[Todd4State]

After looking at the poll, we have 5 morons that have never faced 80mph much less 85 or 90. Imagine that preacher and will have multiple votes. Otherwise we have more idiots than I thought

Smitty apparently has five user names.

[Smitty]

Smitty apparently has five user names.

7, voted the other way with 2 of them

[Homedawg]

[QUOTE=engie;346197]That was me -- and you are basically repeating the "Ron Polk" approach I described in the other thread. I played for Polk's most successful GA coaching in HS in the late 90s/early 00s. MSU was the base for that system -- but certainly not the totality. There was elements of Bertman, Bianco, and Gene Stephenson in there as well. That said, our 2 strike approach was textbook Polk. Choke up, scoot up, spread out, take out the lower half, hit the fastball, fight off the breaker, and a backward K earned your ass a 60 second triangle at practice the next day...[/QUOT

I didn't read the other thread past the first page of stupidity of smitty. I have seen several references in others of the Ron Polk 2 strike theory. All I know is, w 2 strikes it was look fastball and adjust to off speed.

[engie]

Exactly right...

[It_Could_Happen]

My high school coach was a JUCO National Champion and this was just his approach so do not jump my ass. But we did situational batting practice... And he always told us expect the breaking ball and fight off the fast ball.. Which means you are sitting breaking ball and if you get fastball just foul it off and live to fight another day.

[RougeDawg]

This poll is too simplified. Whether or not you look for either pitch is determined by numerous factors. What was them say pitch. Did you swing or take it. Did you make contact or not? Where did you hit it if foul(weak roller down foul territory, roped down into foul territory or fouled straight back. What did you do in your last AB. Did you get a hit, hit a hard out, weak out, or strike out. If you struck out was it swinging or looking? If swinging what pitch was it? If looking what pitch was it. What's this pitchers "out pitch"? What have the other 8 hitters been getting in similar counts? Does he throw a different strikeout pitcher to lefties vs righties? All of this plus much more comes into play with 2 strikes, and any count you are on.

This is college baseball we are talking about. It's not as simple as to looking for one and adjusting to the other. At this level you have to be as adapt mentally as you are physically. To be as startistic and percentage driven as Cohen is, our hitters seem to be completely lost when it comes to reading pitchers and situational pitch counts. If you have proper mechanics and approach you can hit either pitch in any situation. This pool is black or white, and I guess it will allow one side or the other to pound their chests as if they have superior baseball knowledge, but it's not as simple as one or the other.

If you choke up, spread your feet, and cut down stride it doesn't matter what they throw. You just look away and react in. Period.

[MetEdDawg]

Only time you sit off speed in my opinion is if the guy has either a hittable/adjustable FB (like low 80's to around 85), or has shown a tendency over multiple games to throw off speed 50% of the time or more, which is very very rarely the case.

You really have to sit FB and adjust off speed a fairly large portion of the time though. Like greater than 95% of the time. Now in the majors it's different. But when you are talking high school and college, you should be looking FB like I said, around 95% of the time or more.

There are a lot of people that teach sit CB and foul off FB. That approach basically says you aren't getting a hit off a FB, only a CB, which limits your on base potential in my opinion.

[blacklistedbully]

I think the proper approach is to bunt.***

[I seen it dawg]

Only time you sit off speed in my opinion is if the guy has either a hittable/adjustable FB (like low 80's to around 85), or has shown a tendency over multiple games to throw off speed 50% of the time or more, which is very very rarely the case.

You really have to sit FB and adjust off speed a fairly large portion of the time though. Like greater than 95% of the time. Now in the majors it's different. But when you are talking high school and college, you should be looking FB like I said, around 95% of the time or more.

There are a lot of people (shitty baseball coaches)that teach sit CB and foul off FB. That approach basically says you aren't getting a hit off a FB, only a CB, which limits your on base potential in my opinion.

Made a little addition...