Seeing this Smitty vs I seen it Dawg argument brings back memories of last

[Saltydog]

years baseball anti hero, Will James. Did he leave on his own accord? Haven't seen him and his sabremetrics here in a while.

[Todd4State]

Who?

[JohnnyQuid]

They're one and the same.

[Saltydog]

nt

[I seen it dawg]

I'm ashamed of myself for staying in a debate with that guy for so long. I actually gave him a little credit and I was way off base. The whole 2 strike hitting approach thing sealed it for me. He's just a baseball version of Goat. Just best to ignore.

[Saltydog]

at the same time.

Why did he change the username, to protect his pseudo identity?

[Smitty]

at the same time.

Why did he change the username, to protect his pseudo identity?

ISID got mad and banned that account

[I seen it dawg]

ISID got mad and banned that account

Not mad. Tired. And it pissed you off so bad you created a couple of new usernames immediately and railed me. You were only getting banned for some days but when you went full retard the username was banned and will NEVER come back. Mostly because you pitched such a bitch and love it so much. It was damn funny.

[Dawg61]

Is Goat banned? What's Goat's name on SPS?

[Smitty]

Not mad. Tired. And it pissed you off so bad you created a couple of new usernames immediately and railed me. You were only getting banned for some days but when you went full retard the username was banned and will NEVER come back. Mostly because you pitched such a bitch and love it so much. It was damn funny.

It was a really clever username

[preachermatt83]

Will/Smitty knows baseball whether ISID likes it or not but lately Ive realized ISID knows a great deal too... they differ a lot but most of it is just to irritate each other I think.. I enjoy the banter myself... And personally I cannot STAND it when a true bulldog gets banned. Goat was annoying but he was a dog, and so was Will James. Both should have never been banned in my opinion.. But alas, it is what it is. lol .

[I seen it dawg]

It was a really clever username

Not really

[I seen it dawg]

Will/Smitty knows baseball whether ISID likes it or not but lately Ive realized ISID knows a great deal too... they differ a lot but most of it is just to irritate each other I think.. I enjoy the banter myself... And personally I cannot STAND it when a true bulldog gets banned. Goat was annoying but he was a dog, and so was Will James. Both should have never been banned in my opinion.. But alas, it is what it is. lol .

He knows some stats and can spout off some metrics. He doesn't know shit about baseball.

[Dawg61]

Will/Smitty knows baseball whether ISID likes it or not but lately Ive realized ISID knows a great deal too... they differ a lot but most of it is just to irritate each other I think.. I enjoy the banter myself... And personally I cannot STAND it when a true bulldog gets banned. Goat was annoying but he was a dog, and so was Will James. Both should have never been banned in my opinion.. But alas, it is what it is. lol .

Goat was the most closet Rebel on this board. He constantly roamed the halls of Nafoom and would regularly post Nafoom posts over here to troll us. He was a miserable wreck too. I do not miss Goat.

[Coach34]

I don't think Goat got a permaban unless Scoobadawg did it. He got a 1 month time out- like Hoops did

[Dawg61]

I don't think Goat got a permaban unless Scoobadawg did it. He got a 1 month time out- like Hoops did

Haha well he hasn't been back since

[jbjones]

He knows some stats and can spout off some metrics. He doesn't know shit about baseball.

Which is why whomever starts tomorrow's game thread needs to put him on ignore. From other forums that I frequent, if the thread-starter has X user on 'ignore', X user can't post in that thread. It'd at least be a good attempt to make game threads more bearable. Just an idea....

[JohnnyQuid]

And personally I cannot STAND it when a true bulldog gets banned. Goat was annoying but he was a dog, and so was Will James. Both should have never been banned in my opinion.. But alas, it is what it is. lol .

I kinda agree with this. People are gonna differ in opinion and not everyone likes each other. Personality clash etc. But those personalities make board entertaining and fun alot of times i feel.

[Dawg61]

Which is why whomever starts tomorrow's game thread needs to put him on ignore. From other forums that I frequent, if the thread-starter has X user on 'ignore', X user can't post in that thread. It'd at least be a good attempt to make game threads more bearable. Just an idea....

I don't agree with this. WJ hasn't posted since last baseball season. Let him post in baseball threads. He's a Bulldog fan and he does bring a lot of roster knowledge to the discussions. In amongst his posts is tons of roster information. Some posters don't have the ability to follow every game as close of some of the others so stats and roster info is a good way to catch up what you miss. Just don't antagonize him and you won't get arguments.

[JohnnyQuid]

I don't agree with this. WJ hasn't posted since last baseball season. Let him post in baseball threads. He's a Bulldog fan and he does bring a lot of roster knowledge to the discussions. In amongst his posts is tons of roster information. Some posters don't have the ability to follow every game as close of some of the others so stats and roster info is a good way to catch up what you miss. Just don't antagonize him and you won't get arguments.

I dont agree with everything he says nor the majority of it it seems but he's cool to have in baseball threads, and they're not very lively anyway lately. So yea ^ this

[engie]

Yeah, I'd be strongly against banning him or disallowing him to discuss stuff. He's interesting to me -- even if posts like today prove how much he missed about baseball by not playing the game. I give him props about alot of the stuff he's managed to pick up on his own -- but there's some things that will take many years -- that he may never "get" as long as he takes his current attitude with him.

I'm certainly guilty of the same thing at times as well...

[Smitty]

Yeah, I'd be strongly against banning him or disallowing him to discuss stuff. He's interesting to me -- even if posts like today prove how much he missed about baseball by not playing the game. .

1. Why is "banning" even discussed, good grief ISID look what you brought about.
2. I didn't play JUCO Ball or come from a baseball breeding ground, but hey Theo Epstein didn't play after HS either.

[engie]

2. I didn't play JUCO Ball or come from a baseball breeding ground, but hey Theo Epstein didn't play after HS either.

Past high school? You don't have to play past high school to understand the premise of the argument you set up as ridiculous...

Tupelo = baseball breeding ground. Pretty consistently over the years. You didn't play there or you would have claimed it long ago...

Theo Epstein isn't imposing or discussing hitting strategy with 2 strikes either... That's a CEO skillset -- not a managerial skillset -- or coaching skillset. Bad example is bad.

[Really Clark?]

1. Why is "banning" even discussed, good grief ISID look what you brought about.
2. I didn't play JUCO Ball or come from a baseball breeding ground, but hey Theo Epstein didn't play after HS either.

Do you have a quote from Theo agreeing with you? But hey, I don't think he is instructing his team on hitting either. So maybe he is not a good example since he is NOT A COACH.

[Todd4State]

1. Why is "banning" even discussed, good grief ISID look what you brought about.
2. I didn't play JUCO Ball or come from a baseball breeding ground, but hey Theo Epstein didn't play after HS either.

Epstein also doesn't make in game baseball decisions during a game or coach players. I honestly can't think of a pro or college coach that didn't play at a fairly high level. I know a couple of high school coaches that didn't play- but that's probably about as far as they are going to go in their baseball career.

[Smitty]

This strawman has gone a long way since you misinterpreted the definition of adjust. Good grief.

Didn't know sell out to oppo on a fastball to be able to be closer on time to an offspeed pitch would dominate the board tonight.

"Knows the game" still fighting back hard at all levels. The sit dead red fastball with 2 strikes crowd, that's a new one though.

Me and Brunswick on a ledge by ourselves** Happens when posts and ideas aren't read and agendas driven

[Really Clark?]

This strawman has gone a long way since you misinterpreted the definition of adjust. Good grief.

Didn't know sell out to oppo on a fastball to be able to be closer on time to an offspeed pitch would dominate the board tonight.

"Knows the game" still fighting back hard at all levels. The sit dead red fastball with 2 strikes crowd, that's a new one though.

Me and Brunswick on a ledge by ourselves** Happens when posts and ideas aren't read and agendas driven

Any links yet to back your philosophy up? Any science proving that the speed differential between a fastball and offspeed pitch doesn't matter? Going to come clean and admit that you had to adjust your original statement in which you state you expect the offspeed pitch and being on-time with it and you can adjust for the fastball? Because I can't find any science proving that it is possible with speed differentials we are talking about. Illustrate or describe the fundamental technique and philosophy of shortening the swing and hitting opposite field.

There is no strawman when you cannot prove that this is taught or hitters have expounded as this is their approach.

ETA. This is not a situational stat to debate about bunting or intentional walks or lefty lefty match-ups, etc. This is a fundamental that has to be executed physically. At advance levels only with the right mental approach can the physical be executed. The time necessary does not allow for any extra thought process at speeds greater than 80 mph.

[state66]

Is cadaver on a sabbatical from elitedawgs?

[Dawg61]

Is cadaver on a sabbatical from elitedawgs?

Was wondering this myself

[Smitty]

Any links yet to back your philosophy up? Any science proving that the speed differential between a fastball and offspeed pitch doesn't matter? .

Oppo on fastball, closer to off-speed.. Higher chance of contact, handles off-speed pitches better, less strikeouts.

[Really Clark?]

The reaction time difference of a 90 mph to a 80 mph pitch is .058 of a second. A half of a tenth of a second. You just cannot adjust up to a fastball in such a little time. The brain cannot process it fast enough. Here is another tidbit. Most people's reaction time is the same. Including MLB hitters and elite atheletes. But because of conditioning and the ability to pick up the ball and process faster, people think they have better reaction times. In truth the eyes and brain have been trained. That's partially why Fastpitch girls make pro's look stupid. The launch angle, ball, rotation, movement is all foreign to them. They have to use their normal human reaction time which is too slow.

[Really Clark?]

Oppo on fastball, closer to off-speed.. Higher chance of contact, handles off-speed pitches better, less strikeouts.

The fastball is still the same speed, hitting the ball to opposite field time differential is almost negligible. The only way the timing is close, as you have been told countless times, is if the two pitches are within a few up to 6 mph in difference. An effective pitcher will have at least a 10 mph difference between offspeed and fastball. That is too great of a difference to be able to do anything with either pitch if you are not timing fastball adjusting down to offspeed. This goes back to your lack of fundamental knowledge. Where are you hitting the ball in relation to your body on a normal swing vs going opposite field?

Still no link from you just your incorrect assumption. Will you ever link us someone who agrees with your philosophy?

[Smitty]

The reaction time difference of a 90 mph to a 80 mph pitch is .058 of a second. A half of a tenth of a second. You just cannot adjust up to a fastball in such a little time. The brain cannot process it fast enough. Here is another tidbit. Most people's reaction time is the same. Including MLB hitters and elite atheletes. But because of conditioning and the ability to pick up the ball and process faster, people think they have better reaction times. In truth the eyes and brain have been trained. That's partially why Fastpitch girls make pro's look stupid. The launch angle, ball, rotation, movement is all foreign to them. They have to use their normal human reaction time which is too slow.

For probably the 20th time you aren't adjusting up to the fastball.. You are selling out to hitting it oppo, meaning it travels slightly deeper in the zone where contact is made. Fastballs in punish this, I know but that is a tough pitch consistently even at the college level.

By selling out on that fastball deeper, you also allow the off-speed to travel deeper.. You are SELLING OUT to this approach and with the off-speed traveling deeper you INCREASE your chance of contact as you are less out front, good grief it is so simple I cannot fathom how it is not understood.

[Smitty]

Will you ever link us someone who agrees with your philosophy?

Apparently Ron Polk

[Really Clark?]

For probably the 20th time you aren't adjusting up to the fastball.. You are selling out to hitting it oppo, meaning it travels slightly deeper in the zone where contact is made. Fastballs in punish this, I know but that is a tough pitch consistently even at the college level.

By selling out on that fastball deeper, you also allow the off-speed to travel deeper.. You are SELLING OUT to this approach and with the off-speed traveling deeper you INCREASE your chance of contact as you are less out front, good grief it is so simple I cannot fathom how it is not understood.

First off, you are saying that now because you know and have refused to admit your orginal statement contradicts this. You adjusted your stance.

Secondly you cannot hit either pitch timing for both. You have to be mentally go- no go based off the fastball timing. You are also refusing to answer the question about contact point of normal swing vs opposite field and look at the time differential vs offspeed. IT IS TOO GREAT of a difference for you to be effective trying to hit your way.

Letting the ball get deeper and shortening your swing are keywords you are using but you have no understanding of what is really happening to achieve this. The ball getting deeper on a fastball to hit opposite way is still much different in timing as to the off-speed pitch. You have been told and told and told this and refuse to research it yourself. The timing is not the same unless the offspeed pitch is with in 6 mph of the fastball. You've been told this countless times as well.

Link where Polk advocated your philosphy

[Smitty]

1.First off, you are saying that now because you know and have refused to admit your orginal statement contradicts this. You adjusted your stance.

2. Secondly you cannot hit either pitch timing for both. You have to be mentally go- no go based off the fastball timing.

3. You are also refusing to answer the question about contact point of normal swing vs opposite field and look at the time differential vs offspeed. IT IS TOO GREAT of a difference for you to be effective trying to hit your way.

4. Letting the ball get deeper and shortening your swing are keywords you are using but you have no understanding of what is really happening to achieve this. The ball getting deeper on a fastball to hit opposite way is still much different in timing as to the off-speed pitch. You have been told and told and told this and refuse to research it yourself. The timing is not the same unless the offspeed pitch is with in 6 mph of the fastball. You've been told this countless times as well.

5. Link where Polk advocated your philosphy

1. I have said the same thing since the jump. Re-reading it you are mis-defining adjust. You took it as mid-pitch. You adjust by letting it travel, selling out oppo. I clarified this but by then the playbook was in motion and the straw man was being abused.

2. You are timing for the fastball, deeper in the zone. You give up on the fastball inside to do this. Best you can do is foul inside fastball off but that would require a really good pitch.

3. Again, selling out oppo on fastball means contact rate on off-speed will rise. That and a shorter, quicker swing allows this rise in contact %. Its just like normal, except contact point on off-speed will be closer as you have already gave up on the fastball in.

4. Gibberish and nonsense. Hitting doesn't turn upside down with 2 strikes.. Its little adjustments, same concepts. Give up on inside fastball. Sell out to a deeper contact zone overall, allowing for more contact on the off-speed stuff.

5. Engie said so.

[Smitty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTJrf2dFK5Y

[Really Clark?]

You have changed your original stance. You originally said you expect offspeed and adjust to fastball in your initial post. Later you said "You should never be out front on a 2 strike approach, you're looking to be on time with the off-speed and adjust to send fastballs the other way/fight them off." To be on-time on the offspeed means that you are timed for that speed. Then adjust up for the fastball. These are your words that you are now trying to twist and have not acknowledged were incorrect. Because you cannot react fast enough. Your words not anyone else's. Until you admit you were wrong originally no one will accept those statements as the same as you are portraying now. You held on to a false premise until you finally understood that NOBODY hits or teaches hitting to base their general 2 strike approach looking to be on time for offspeed.

The video is fine. He is talking about looking away which if you recall I stated that that is a great general approach much earlier. Find me one that coincides with your original premis. He at no point was LOOKING offspeed. Which is your original premise that you will not admit you have backed off from. He is reacting offspeed because if he recognizes offspeed he can slow down his swing enough to still make contact. The speed difference between a fastball and offspeed is too great other wise. And this idea that generally the ball is getting deep to go opposite on fastball will still have you out front of an offspeed without recognition. The time is to great between those differing speeds. Because you never answered a lot of the questions posed to you about opposite field here is a fundamental key you keep missing. The swing path is what matter in hitting opposite field much more so than delaying your timing letting the ball get deeper on you. You keep your timing pretty much the same whether you are pulling a fastball or going opposite. You are just swinging with an inside out swing. You can hit inside pitches opposite field and to quote the great Ted Williams once he learned to hit 2 strike inside pitches opposite field then he became a great hitter. The actual ball location on pull, straight or opposite are all in front of you front leg to at worse equal to the front knee. The actual timing difference between these three contact points are too small to actually consciencely make an adjustment. The getting the ball deep is a trigger for us to mentally prepare our body for the correct swing path and gives us a different eye path that registers you are hitting the ball much later. You have to still be geared for the fastball and adjust down for offspeed which is what everybody who has been arguing with you knows. You are going to still argue you are right, and your stance now is closer, but is NOT your orginal premise. You changed it because you finally figured out it won't work.

To be clear, a shorter swing and hitting to opposite field still puts you out front of an offspeed pitch unless you adjust down for that speed. The timing difference is too great. You cannot take your normal opposite field fastball swing and hit an offspeed without slowing down your swing. Unless the pitch is within 6 mph of the fastball. Of course that is not a good offspeed either. Forget getting a piece of a 15-20 mph slower speed change up.

[Really Clark?]

4. Gibberish and nonsense. Hitting doesn't turn upside down with 2 strikes.. Its little adjustments, same concepts. Give up on inside fastball. Sell out to a deeper contact zone overall, allowing for more contact on the off-speed stuff.

5. Engie said so.

It would be gibberish to someone who is ignorant. You spewed crap from your butt with no real knowledge about the subject. The problem now is you trying to twist your change off your original stance like people are failing to comprehend what you were talking about. You had to come off the orginal flawed approach you spewed but your arrogance won't admit you were wrong and had to adjust from your orginal stance. It's one thing to be ignorant but it's a new level of being an asshat to be arrogantly ignorant.

[I seen it dawg]

1. Why is "banning" even discussed, good grief ISID look what you brought about.
2. I didn't play JUCO Ball or come from a baseball breeding ground, but hey Theo Epstein didn't play after HS either.

I never talked about banning you this time. That was you. I don't give a shit. You're so far down the list of anyone that knows anything about baseball you have made yourself irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

[Smitty]

You have changed your original stance. You originally said you expect offspeed and adjust to fastball in your initial post. Later you said "You should never be out front on a 2 strike approach, you're looking to be on time with the off-speed and adjust to send fastballs the other way/fight them off." To be on-time on the offspeed means that you are timed for that speed. Then adjust up for the fastball. These are your words that you are now trying to twist and have not acknowledged were incorrect. Because you cannot react fast enough.

The only issue is you/Engie taking what I said and assuming something false, then after explaining it for 4 pages still carrying on with it. You SHOULD never be out front on 2 strike, thats what was shown in the video at the end during the "leaning forward striking out on off speed away" portion. When you adjust to send the fastball oppo you will be more on time to hit the off-speed just like was shown in the video. The video is damn near exact word for word what I've said the whole time. If you can't hit a fastball away, you suck. Sell out on oppo, thats your adjustment. Fight off the inside fastball. Don't be out front on the off-speed.

Never did I say, "sit/be exactly timed up" off-speed and then if you realize its a fastball "oh shit, swing!" Thats what you are attributing. Fully explained what "expect" off speed meant.. Much higher chance of it occurring, aka, I expect Ryan Howard to pull the ball. But no, the meme was fully off, I Seen It wanted so badly to make his stupid point, Todd (who thinks Robson should hit 2nd and the bunting/offense really isn't a problem) jumped in, Engie had the playbook, and the cheerleaders were in full circle.

You are be clowning yourselves in "gotcha" reporting. "You said ON TIME meaning 'this is what I attribute to that statement"… I am so sorry I left off the qualifier "MORE" on time originally. Although I fully, FULLY explained it. Fastball deeper, not out front on off-speed. JUST like the video states.

[engie]

Oppo on fastball, closer to off-speed.. Higher chance of contact, handles off-speed pitches better, less strikeouts.

In order to be able to go oppo on fastball -- you have to be sitting fastball out of the pitcher's hand. Even if there's a > 50% chance it's going to be a breaking ball. It has to be an 80+% chance that the next pitch will be a breaking ball in order for your approach to work. No one -- at this level -- gives you those kind of percentages or they get absolutely tattooed in that count. You adjust back to the breaking ball and not up to the fastball. It's something that is learned at whatever age off-speed is introduced to the game and never forgotten.

Yes -- you are trying to change your approach now to line up with what I and others initially stated in your thread -- that you initially argued against -- but no one is letting you off that easy.

And the funniest part of it is -- I gave you the elementary version. At the stage where guys actually start to bust you in(definitely the one in question -- the SEC) -- a simple oppo approach to 2-strikes no longer really applies lest you have a scouting report a couple of games in and be a guaranteed k victim every time you have a 2 strike count via the fastball in. You've actually got to approach it as if every pitch is a fastball in(many catchers will tip this to you early enough to know what's intended). You adjust off of that.

Alot of times, the catcher gives the pitch away long before you ever see baseball. Especially if they are lazy/when nobody is on. Even on the called breaker in the dirt -- they will want this pitch off the outside part of the plate. They will not want it to hit the plate and give the ball the opportunity to do all kind of crazy things that can sometimes make it impossible to block.

[Really Clark?]

The only issue is you/Engie taking what I said and assuming something false, then after explaining it for 4 pages still carrying on with it. You SHOULD never be out front on 2 strike, thats what was shown in the video at the end during the "leaning forward striking out on off speed away" portion. When you adjust to send the fastball oppo you will be more on time to hit the off-speed just like was shown in the video. The video is damn near exact word for word what I've said the whole time. If you can't hit a fastball away, you suck. Sell out on oppo, thats your adjustment. Fight off the inside fastball. Don't be out front on the off-speed.

Never did I say, "sit/be exactly timed up" off-speed and then if you realize its a fastball "oh shit, swing!" Thats what you are attributing. Fully explained what "expect" off speed meant.. Much higher chance of it occurring, aka, I expect Ryan Howard to pull the ball. But no, the meme was fully off, I Seen It wanted so badly to make his stupid point, Todd (who thinks Robson should hit 2nd and the bunting/offense really isn't a problem) jumped in, Engie had the playbook, and the cheerleaders were in full circle.

You are be clowning yourselves in "gotcha" reporting. "You said ON TIME meaning 'this is what I attribute to that statement"? I am so sorry I left off the qualifier "MORE" on time originally. Although I fully, FULLY explained it. Fastball deeper, not out front on off-speed. JUST like the video states.

You are an arrogant liar. These are you quotes: "With two strikes you shorten up, expect the off-speed stuff, and adjust to the fastball with an opposite field approach. You should NEVER get beat on a curve in the dirt. You should NEVER be out front (as you are on time with off speed and sending fastballs the other way/fighting them off protecting the zone."

"You should never be out front on a 2 strike approach, you're looking to be on time with the off-speed and adjust to send fastballs the other way/fight them off. MSU continuously swings at curveballs in the dirt and watches fastballs go by for strike 3 because we don't do this."

"You have a short swing already in 2 strike. You throw your hands at the fastball and send it oppo. Its not so much "adjusting" to the fastball it's being on time with the off speed and sending the fastball oppo." INCORRECT FUNDAMENTAL. YOU DO NOT THROW YOUR HANDS TO HIT OPPO

These were your quotes and originally premise that multiple people called you out on. We did not misinterpret your stance as you clearly stated early in the thread that you are intending to be ON TIME WITH OFFSPEED and adjust to fastball fouling it off or hitting it oppo field. It is impossible to do what you are advocating and even your little video at no point advocated being on time with the offspeed. Even if you are now trying to change your stance with the qualifier MORE on time, it is a completely flawed approach other than very few situations (of which I can name but I dont think you have a clue about) but not as a general 2 strike strategy.

If you had just said originally with 2 strikes I am trying to hit opposite field and react to offspeed that is a correct approach. You didnt, got called out for it, and are now trying to distant yourself from the ON TIME ON OFFSPEED that you clearly stated in multiple posts. You are either on time for fastball or offspeed. Not both. No matter how you try to lie and twist it around that was not what your original statements were advocating and we all know it.

With out basic knowledge and application of hitting opposite field, your logic has completely failed. The time difference between pulling, middle, and opposite field hitting is such a small difference, that a human cannot comprehend the difference. The concept of letting the ball get deep to hit oppo is sound but it is really just a trick for your mind and eyes to be able to aggressively hit the ball that direction.


http://hawaiibaseballacademy.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/AlbertPujolsUSING_LOWER_HALF.281231914_std.jpg

Look at Pulos swing (if the image attached). It is an inside out aggressive swing with the hands inside the ball. He is still hitting the ball off the front leg and in front of the plate. He is NOT throwing his hands at the ball. (Bad instruction). That is hitting opposite field and you cannot accomplish this with what you are advocating. With 2 strikes you do shorten your swing but that only means you set your hands back and do not move them as much and you eliminate some of your front shoulder in the swing. Its a short compact swing from inside out that gives you the longest swing throughout the hitting zone as possible. A big reason you do this is to help you react to the offspeed. If your hands are too active even with a short swing a good breaking pitch will still make you look silly. (which is another topic never mentioned, have you ever hit against a truly nasty breaking ball or deceptive change?) It sounds good in your head I'm sure, but in the real world the applications you are advocating will not work.

http://antiquesbaseball.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Pujols.jpg

Pulos fouling one off to first base dugout side.

http://www.baseballsite.ws/files/users/4/76AB14344B87785AE040A8C0AC00169B/92967d14fa4e9432a1c189cf92fd7f8d.gif

Pulos pulling the ball.

Do you see how small the distance is between pulling the ball and hitting it foul toward the first base dugout. All three contact points are at the front leg. Couple this with the speed of the pitch, you cannot possibly do anything with a fastball if you are not aggressive trying to hit that pitch. You will not be able to consistently foul off a fastball by just throwing you hands at it. Forget putting it in play other than a weak dribbler back to the pitcher (this is because the act of throwing you hands at the ball causes the barrel to prematurely rotate, this can be seen when players try to pull an outside pitch. It is a very weak hit or foul. That is your only two outcomes.) Your whole premise is flawed and it mostly has to do with you having very little fundamental knowledge of the art of hitting and I suspect other aspects as well. This has nothing to do with your thoughts on stats or even game management or some situational aspects of the game. But your fundamentals are barely intermittent level. Much less advance.

[sandwolf]

Is cadaver on a sabbatical from elitedawgs?

I am thinking that he must have given it up for lent or something.

[Smitty]

Again your hangup boils down to my omission of the word 'more'.. 'More' on time with the off speed.

You are correct. You do not throw your hands at the ball to hit it oppo, in general. You throw your hands at the ball in two strikes though with a shorter swing. You will hit the ball oppo. Again, sorry for omitting a comma. "You throw your hands at the fastball, COMMA, and send it oppo"

If you want to continue to read it how you want there is nothing more I can say. The video is my approach. Give up fastball in. The gotcha journalism playbook is tired and worn.

[Really Clark?]

Again your hangup boils down to my omission of the word 'more'.. 'More' on time with the off speed.

You are correct. You do not throw your hands at the ball to hit it oppo, in general. You throw your hands at the ball in two strikes though with a shorter swing. You will hit the ball oppo. Again, sorry for omitting a comma. "You throw your hands at the fastball, COMMA, and send it oppo"

If you want to continue to read it how you want there is nothing more I can say. The video is my approach. Give up fastball in. The gotcha journalism playbook is tired and worn.

Your arrogance, lack of knowledge and the worming your way to seperate your self from what you originally advocated is what is old. Your orginal intent and lack of knowledge was on display and was not a gotcha moment for the rest of us.

Btw. You never throw you hands at the ball with two strikes unless you are fooled on a pitch and it's a last ditch effort to foul it off. That is bad teaching. Your hands have to be quite and on a shorter inside path. Throwing your hands rotates your barrel too early and causes the bat to travel through the zone for a much smaller amount of time. The complete opposite of what you are wanting to do with 2 strikes. Heck at any point really except as defensive swing to foul off only. You are not hitting the ball oppo using this method 2 strikes or not. Bad advice that I hope no one teaches anymore. I guess you squish the bug as well?

[Really Clark?]

Take a look at this video. I used it because the hitter even mentions John Cohen. You never throw your hands at the ball, no matter what the pitch is or WHERE you are trying to hit the ball, as you create a disconnect losing power, losing control, and improper swing path causing the barrel to decrease time in the hitting zone.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI1LWtNFuzw&feature=player_detailpage

[Really Clark?]

I think so much of your problem with hitting in this situation goes back to your lack of fundamental knowledge. You have some book knowledge that tells you to protect the plate and look away, etc. Forget the fastball vs offspeed debate for a minute. The practical application is where you are severely lacking. The idea of throwing you hands at the ball is one of the glaring flaws in your thought process. You cannot create a correct and appropriate swing path in any swing throwing your hands at the ball. But especially in this circumstance. If you are looking away you want to create a longer swing path through the hitting zone. Throwing your hands at the ball has the opposite effect. It shortens your swing path. There is a drill that is used in which the batter turns perpendicular in the batters box and they have to hit a outside pitch. If you are casting you hands at the ball you will miss over the top and short everytime. Only when you actual learn the correct inside out path will you be able to hit the ball. And this is will the ball is on a tee. Forget full speed.

I will say that although I have used the terminology of hitting inside the ball and such in these posts, when teaching some of this is a non-teach when instructing the proper swing path. But it can give us a cue to what we are trying to accomplish in the swing and makes it easier for you to visualize.

[RougeDawg]

You are an arrogant liar. These are you quotes: "With two strikes you shorten up, expect the off-speed stuff, and adjust to the fastball with an opposite field approach. You should NEVER get beat on a curve in the dirt. You should NEVER be out front (as you are on time with off speed and sending fastballs the other way/fighting them off protecting the zone."

"You should never be out front on a 2 strike approach, you're looking to be on time with the off-speed and adjust to send fastballs the other way/fight them off. MSU continuously swings at curveballs in the dirt and watches fastballs go by for strike 3 because we don't do this."

"You have a short swing already in 2 strike. You throw your hands at the fastball and send it oppo. Its not so much "adjusting" to the fastball it's being on time with the off speed and sending the fastball oppo." INCORRECT FUNDAMENTAL. YOU DO NOT THROW YOUR HANDS TO HIT OPPO

These were your quotes and originally premise that multiple people called you out on. We did not misinterpret your stance as you clearly stated early in the thread that you are intending to be ON TIME WITH OFFSPEED and adjust to fastball fouling it off or hitting it oppo field. It is impossible to do what you are advocating and even your little video at no point advocated being on time with the offspeed. Even if you are now trying to change your stance with the qualifier MORE on time, it is a completely flawed approach other than very few situations (of which I can name but I dont think you have a clue about) but not as a general 2 strike strategy.

If you had just said originally with 2 strikes I am trying to hit opposite field and react to offspeed that is a correct approach. You didnt, got called out for it, and are now trying to distant yourself from the ON TIME ON OFFSPEED that you clearly stated in multiple posts. You are either on time for fastball or offspeed. Not both. No matter how you try to lie and twist it around that was not what your original statements were advocating and we all know it.

With out basic knowledge and application of hitting opposite field, your logic has completely failed. The time difference between pulling, middle, and opposite field hitting is such a small difference, that a human cannot comprehend the difference. The concept of letting the ball get deep to hit oppo is sound but it is really just a trick for your mind and eyes to be able to aggressively hit the ball that direction.


http://hawaiibaseballacademy.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/AlbertPujolsUSING_LOWER_HALF.281231914_std.jpg

Look at Pulos swing (if the image attached). It is an inside out aggressive swing with the hands inside the ball. He is still hitting the ball off the front leg and in front of the plate. He is NOT throwing his hands at the ball. (Bad instruction). That is hitting opposite field and you cannot accomplish this with what you are advocating. With 2 strikes you do shorten your swing but that only means you set your hands back and do not move them as much and you eliminate some of your front shoulder in the swing. Its a short compact swing from inside out that gives you the longest swing throughout the hitting zone as possible. A big reason you do this is to help you react to the offspeed. If your hands are too active even with a short swing a good breaking pitch will still make you look silly. (which is another topic never mentioned, have you ever hit against a truly nasty breaking ball or deceptive change?) It sounds good in your head I'm sure, but in the real world the applications you are advocating will not work.

http://antiquesbaseball.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Pujols.jpg

Pulos fouling one off to first base dugout side.

http://www.baseballsite.ws/files/users/4/76AB14344B87785AE040A8C0AC00169B/92967d14fa4e9432a1c189cf92fd7f8d.gif

Pulos pulling the ball.

Do you see how small the distance is between pulling the ball and hitting it foul toward the first base dugout. All three contact points are at the front leg. Couple this with the speed of the pitch, you cannot possibly do anything with a fastball if you are not aggressive trying to hit that pitch. You will not be able to consistently foul off a fastball by just throwing you hands at it. Forget putting it in play other than a weak dribbler back to the pitcher (this is because the act of throwing you hands at the ball causes the barrel to prematurely rotate, this can be seen when players try to pull an outside pitch. It is a very weak hit or foul. That is your only two outcomes.) Your whole premise is flawed and it mostly has to do with you having very little fundamental knowledge of the art of hitting and I suspect other aspects as well. This has nothing to do with your thoughts on stats or even game management or some situational aspects of the game. But your fundamentals are barely intermittent level. Much less advance.

Assuming that last pic is an inside pitch, it's a jam job. Look at his back elbow. it's not extended to the correct point of contact. He's fighting that one off.

I left off a crucial part of two strike, and hitting in general yesterday on my post. I completely forgot about picking up the release point and hand position of pitchers hand prior to him releasing the ball. If the palm is open and you see all ball it's most likely a fastball. If the hand is sideways and you see the side of the hand, it's most likely offspeed. Every pitcher does something different with his hand position and release point of each type of pitch. We used to look for open palm or hand sideways. This gave a nice indication of the pitch coming before release. Given you don't have much time to process these thoughts, if you practice enough and visualize the hand positions, you can train yourself to pick it up in a game. Also most pitchers will release various pitches at various locations in theorists slot. It is the hitter and in dugout scout's responsibility to look for these and pick up on them. For instance almost every pitcher has some variation in where they release off speed and fastballs. Once you start training yourself for these small things you can become a good hitter.

As often as our hitters looked fooled by pitches, I can only conclude that they are either not being taught all these little baseball items that make great hitters, or they do not listen. Looking at our players and how much their swings improve while they are away at summer leagues tends to lean to one of those answers. The proof is there for those who choose to see it. We need a hitting coach who is sound in the mechanics and the mental aspect of hitting. And by mental I mean approach, confidence, and training the hitters to pick up on the subtleties of a pitchers release and not have to think about a scouting report. Most pitchers are "book" pitchers and they tend to follow certain patterns in certain situations. Once you learn the basic patterns of pitchers and study the scouting reports for pitchers "out pitches" you can bring that knowledge to the plate and be in the pitchers mind before he knows what he is going to throw.

[Really Clark?]

Assuming that last pic is an inside pitch, it's a jam job. Look at his back elbow. it's not extended to the correct point of contact. He's fighting that one off.

I left off a crucial part of two strike, and hitting in general yesterday on my post. I completely forgot about picking up the release point and hand position of pitchers hand prior to him releasing the ball. If the palm is open and you see all ball it's most likely a fastball. If the hand is sideways and you see the side of the hand, it's most likely offspeed. Every pitcher does something different with his hand position and release point of each type of pitch. We used to look for open palm or hand sideways. This gave a nice indication of the pitch coming before release. Given you don't have much time to process these thoughts, if you practice enough and visualize the hand positions, you can train yourself to pick it up in a game. Also most pitchers will release various pitches at various locations in theorists slot. It is the hitter and in dugout scout's responsibility to look for these and pick up on them. For instance almost every pitcher has some variation in where they release off speed and fastballs. Once you start training yourself for these small things you can become a good hitter.

As often as our hitters looked fooled by pitches, I can only conclude that they are either not being taught all these little baseball items that make great hitters, or they do not listen. Looking at our players and how much their swings improve while they are away at summer leagues tends to lean to one of those answers. The proof is there for those who choose to see it. We need a hitting coach who is sound in the mechanics and the mental aspect of hitting. And by mental I mean approach, confidence, and training the hitters to pick up on the subtleties of a pitchers release and not have to think about a scouting report. Most pitchers are "book" pitchers and they tend to follow certain patterns in certain situations. Once you learn the basic patterns of pitchers and study the scouting reports for pitchers "out pitches" you can bring that knowledge to the plate and be in the pitchers mind before he knows what he is going to throw.

It appears to be inside to me as well but he is making good contact with the barrel on the ball. That pitch ended up squared nicely into the gap in LC. You do have some slide in and out to reach or fight off pitches but the elbow is normally closer to the body than extended up to the contact point. I agree with that. I was mainly using the illustration to show contact point between a pulled pitch vs hit opposite field. The distance is so small at speeds over 80 mph that the mind really cant comprehend and adjust. The brain to muscle interpretation cant react fast enough.

I absolutely agree with the idea of scouting pitchers and picking up there tells. However, at high levels you have to also acknowledge that even if the pitcher tells you what he is going to throw does not mean you will hit it. Unless it is a fastball middle. But yeah you try to pick up every tell he, the catcher, coaches, etc give you to be prepared for a certain pitch. Watching release points is a great way to do this but you do need to see a particular pitcher enough times that is more instinctual. It is why MLB hitters cant hit elite fastpitch pitchers. The hitters can hit 100 mph if they are geared up for it but the release point is too different for their minds eye to comprehend what they are seeing. They are reacting just like a normal human at that point. It all about seeing the various pitches and speeds enough that your mind processes what it sees appropriately and quicker than normal human reaction time. Their reaction is not faster than normal people they just have somewhat a precognitive interpretation because of repetition. The physical coordination aspect is what separates people. A lot of people can become accustomed to the speed and rotations given time but the talent is in the translation of the precognitive ability into action.

[I seen it dawg]

Smitty you're a ****ing idiot.

[Schultzy]

Take a look at this video. I used it because the hitter even mentions John Cohen. You never throw your hands at the ball, no matter what the pitch is or WHERE you are trying to hit the ball, as you create a disconnect losing power, losing control, and improper swing path causing the barrel to decrease time in the hitting zone.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI1LWtNFuzw&feature=player_detailpage
Spruill does this well. He drove a way inside the strike zone fastball up the middle for an important rbi last weekend.

Smitty's approach may sound good on a Phys Ed term paper or something, but when you face live pitching it's just obvious that you have to look fastball and adjust down. And even then it's all about pitch recognition out of the pitchers hand (spin, velocity).

That's a cool pic of Puholz compressing a baseball.