What is it going to take next season for you to be happy with Coach Ray?

[Jack Lambert]

He has only won 13 SEC games in three seasons. I am not happy now but accept he is going to be back next season.

[Dawgface]

20 wins and whatever that gets us. Probably NIT. And I wouldn't say happy, more like satisfied.

[Coach34]

NIT at Minimum

[msugolf]

Making NCAA tourney and finishing top 4 in conference. So basically I'm prepared for unhappiness.

[Ralph]

Here's my take... If the ath dept, as a whole, has a philosophy of hiring and keeping a coach minimum 4 years, then Im on board with him coming back. If the ath dept does not have this philosophy, Im not sure what the **** we're waiting on.

But to answer your question, for me, he would need to make the dance.

[msstate7]

Making NCAA tourney and finishing top 4 in conference. So basically I'm prepared for unhappiness.

So if we finished 6th in sec and make tourney, you'd fire him?

Shouldn't the goal just be ncaa tournament?

[HancockCountyDog]

If we are happy with the NIT in year 4, with a team that will have probably have over 250 starts in college returning, then I need to find a new college basketball team to follow because ours will be officially relegated to irrelevant status.

[codeDawg]

Sitting at home counting the stacks of money we paid him for this ongoing dumpster fire.

At this point we should be in on on the bubble of the tournament. Offensive and defensive efficiency should be in the top 100 with the SR's he has and the time he's had to recruit. Maybe this is an unrealistic step from this year to next, but he needs to prove he can do great things to stick around, not just get by season to season.

[msugolf]

The question was "what would make me happy" not "how could he keep his job." Where did I mention anything about firing him if he made the tourney?


So if we finished 6th in sec and make tourney, you'd fire him?

Shouldn't the goal just be ncaa tournament?

[TXDawg]

NCAA Tournament at large bid.

He doesn't get credit for another crappy season, then back-dooring it through the SECT.

[Tbonewannabe]

NIT at least with an offense that isn't last in almost every category.

[msstate7]

The question was "what would make me happy" not "how could he keep his job." Where did I mention anything about firing him if he made the tourney?

So 6th place in sec and tourney appearance would leave you unhappy?

[Liverpooldawg]

Qualify for the NCAA tourney. I'm not holding my breath.

[jumbo]

NIT at least with an offense that isn't last in almost every category.

this

[RossDawg82]

I would be happy seeing him on the sideline for one of our non conference foes next year

[msstate7]

Ncaa tourney, but I will make an exception. I'll be happy with nit if the following things happen:

1. Close the deal on '16 recruiting class and finish top 25.

2. Weatherspoon and tookie both pan out.

3. Real development of Houston, black, and ndoye, but esp Houston and black.

If these happen, we'll have a very solid base of tookie, weatherspoon, Houston, and black to build on with the '16 class.

[maroonmania]

If we are happy with the NIT in year 4, with a team that will have probably have over 250 starts in college returning, then I need to find a new college basketball team to follow because ours will be officially relegated to irrelevant status.

I tend to agree, only way I would be "happy" next year is if we get an NCAA bid. I would have been "happy" with an NIT bid THIS season which was originally where I had my expectation level at. Now, I guess I can more easily live with a 5th year of Ray if we make any post-season at all next year but the only issue is that it at least looks like year 5 will likely be a step back from whatever we do next year due to the loss of Ware, Sword, Thomas and Daniels.

[msstate7]

I tend to agree, only way I would be "happy" next year is if we get an NCAA bid. I would have been "happy" with an NIT bid THIS season which was originally where I had my expectation level at. Now, I guess I can more easily live with a 5th year of Ray if we make any post-season at all next year but the only issue is that it at least looks like year 5 will likely be a step back from whatever we do next year due to the loss of Ware, Sword, Thomas and Daniels.

Ware and sword will be tough losses. Assuming we make nit, simonds will step on campus better than fred and Daniels leave it though

[quickstrike2]

I won't be thrilled with just an NIT berth, but I will be able to deal with it realistically. I won't be happy barely squeaking into the NIT and acting like we have done something special. I will be happy competing for a shot at the NCAA's and falling a little short and playing in the NIT. Midway thru the year next year if excuses about injuries, back up point guards, 8 minute scoring droughts consistently, amazing defense during a losing streak, and of course the weekly Stans bashing threads occur, then the direction of our program needs to change.

[smootness]

Ncaa tourney, but I will make an exception. I'll be happy with nit if the following things happen:

1. Close the deal on '16 recruiting class and finish top 25.

2. Weatherspoon and tookie both pan out.

3. Real development of Houston, black, and ndoye, but esp Houston and black.

If these happen, we'll have a very solid base of tookie, weatherspoon, Houston, and black to build on with the '16 class.

I think this is the most reasonable; it expects a lot, but leaves room open if we have just some success but it's clear the program is in a healthy spot moving forward.

If we make the NIT but it's solely on the backs of Ware, Sword, and Thomas (and even Ready), then it's going to be tough to see anything but a significant drop-off the following year.

On the other hand, if Tookie and Weatherspoon look really good right away, if Houston plays a big role on next year's team and looks like a potential star, and if the young big men show serious growth, then I will be optimistic about what we have for the next 3-5 years.

[msugolf]

So 6th place in sec and tourney appearance would leave you unhappy?

Are you an absolutist? Didn't know I had to explain things in such small details. Just because you're not happy doesn't mean your unhappy. If you need a word or phrase to describe it then I guess you can use "content for now, but yet to be determined"

[Dawg61]

If he's coaching elsewhere

[msstate7]

Are you an absolutist? Didn't know I had to explain things in such small details. Just because you're not happy doesn't mean your unhappy. If you need a word or phrase to describe it then I guess you can use "content for now, but yet to be determined"

This is very important. Please describe in detail... Haha

[sleepy dawg]

1 seed in the NIT or better. That's not too much to ask in year 4 right?

[Johnson85]

Happiness is always NCAA tournament, at bare minimum. If we didn't merit an NCAA tourney bid, I'm not happy about the way the year went.

That said, for me to be satisfied that we're making progress, we need to make it to the NIT and make a small run once there. We'll have a very experienced team and while there are plenty of legitimate excuses for things that have been holding Ray back so far, I don't see a lot of reason for hope if in year 4, with a solid if not spectacular senior class with three 4-year starters, he can't get his team competitive in the NIT.

[MadDawg]

He has only won 13 SEC games in three seasons. I am not happy now but accept he is going to be back next season.

Same exact thing it would have been with the previous coach. Make the NCAA tourney or be gone. I was told we didn't change expectations. This thread proves that's bullshit.

[TheDogFather]

He has only won 13 SEC games in three seasons. I am not happy now but accept he is going to be back next season.

To have one year better than Rick Stansbury's worst year.

[HSVDawg]

NCAA Tournament at large bid.

He doesn't get credit for another crappy season, then back-dooring it through the SECT.

Also known as pulling a Dennis Felton. Still can't believe UGA delayed shitcanning him for a year strictly based on a miracle 4 day run and subsequent ass whooping received in the 1st round of the dance.

[Political Hack]

ncaa tournament.

[Political Hack]

If he's coaching elsewhere

hahaha. I change my stance in agreement with 61.

[shannondawg]

Asking me to suggest a good realtor.

[dawgs]

Coaching another team

[Political Hack]

Asking me to suggest a good realtor.

well played.

I'm not 100% sure he's back. I know that's what has been thrown out there but we've seen the grashopper be less than honest with the big time basketball supporters before. Not sure why he'd spill the beans before the season if there was a plan to go in another direction. Also, not sure Keenum would step in already and tell him to make a move either. To assume any final decision has been made prior to the season is premature IMO.

I don't doubt that's what's been said and I don't doubt that came form the horses mouth, but the horse may change his mind after the final game.

[maroonmania]

well played.

I'm not 100% sure he's back. I know that's what has been thrown out there but we've seen the grashopper be less than honest with the big time basketball supporters before. Not sure why he'd spill the beans before the season if there was a plan to go in another direction. Also, not sure Keenum would step in already and tell him to make a move either. To assume any final decision has been made prior to the season is premature IMO.

I don't doubt that's what's been said and I don't doubt that came form the horses mouth, but the horse may change his mind after the final game.

I think he gets another year strictly because he is Stricklin's hire and Stricklin probably feels in fairness he owes him the full 4 years. If this was a Byrne/Croom type situation I have no hesitation in saying he wouldn't be back.

[Political Hack]

I think he gets another year strictly because he is Stricklin's hire and Stricklin probably feels in fairness he owes him the full 4 years. If this was a Byrne/Croom type situation I have no hesitation in saying he wouldn't be back.

I don't doubt Strick's conviction to seeing this work since it was his only hire in the big three, but he answers to people too.

[Saltydog]

nt

[Coach34]

To have one year better than Rick Stansbury's worst year.

Stands had two 5-11 SEC seasons...Ray is 6-12 this year. This year is better than both of those 5-11 seasons

[Tbonewannabe]

Stands had two 5-11 SEC seasons...Ray is 6-12 this year. This year is better than both of those 5-11 seasons

Did Stans lose to any SWAC teams that year?

[Johnson85]

well played.

...Not sure why he'd spill the beans before the season if there was a plan to go in another direction...To assume any final decision has been made prior to the season is premature IMO.



I would hope nobody is basing Ray having another year on what Stricklin is saying. I guess the major basketball donors that would be asked to pony up if Ray were canned this year might already have been approached if there was a reasonable possibility he'd be fired at the end of this season, so they would kind of know by the fact that nothing has been floated to them. But other than those donors, what would people expect Stricklin to say?

[Coach34]

Did Stans lose to any SWAC teams that year?

Valpo and Montana State

[Coach34]

. But other than those donors, what would people expect Stricklin to say?

As was told to me:

"He didnt just say Ray would be back next year. He went into GREAT DETAIL as to why he would e back next year. Thats why I think it was more than just AD-speak"

[TheRef]

Did Stans lose to any SWAC teams that year?

Losses to Northwestern State, SELA (46-57), Akron. Had to beat Troy and Santa Clara in overtime. (2005-2006)

Losses to Rutgers, Valpo, Stanford, and Montana State (1999-2000)

[Coach34]

Losses to Northwestern State, SELA (46-57), Akron. Had to beat Troy and Santa Clara in overtime. (2005-2006)

Losses to Rutgers, Valpo, Stanford, and Montana State (1999-2000)

12-17 Montana State that year

[dawgs]

So we've established that ray with a team of experienced players is perhaps marginally better than Stans in complete rebuilding seasons? Nevermind the relative strength of the conference those seasons, and who is to say we might not have gone 1-1 on the extra 2 games ray got to coach.

I mean Stans had to go, but y'all aren't really selling me on ray's "improvement" right now.

[TheRef]

So we've established that ray with a team of experienced players is perhaps marginally better than Stans in complete rebuilding seasons?

I mean Stans had to go, but y'all aren't really selling me on ray's "improvement" right now.

Look...I was just answering the guy's question. He asked me who we lost to those years, so I answered his question with all of our non-conference losses those years.

[Coach34]

I dont think anybody is sold on Ray's improvement to this point. 6-12 in the SEC is unacceptable in Year 3

[Schultzy]

You know that roster full of players this year and last that can't shoot, well guess what, they won't shoot well next year either. John Wooden couldn't take this bunch to the NCAA tournament.

They're good kids and I like Sword as a player but we just don't have the talent to get there yet. Losing that group of seniors after next season will open some doors recruiting wise.

I don't know if Ray will make it or not but we are some ways away from being a tournament team. Making the field of 64 would make me happy next year but it's not realistic with the talent level we have in the program currently, regardless of experience.

Having a lot of starters return doesn't mean much if they aren't good players.

[Intramural All-American]

If he's coaching elsewhere

So Ray could win the national championship here next year, and you wouldn't be happy? Makes sense

[Rayburn8]

If we are happy with the NIT in year 4, with a team that will have probably have over 250 starts in college returning, then I need to find a new college basketball team to follow because ours will be officially relegated to irrelevant status.

Go ahead and find a new college team to cheer for if that is you attitude. Part being a fan is going through the bad and good. So you can't handle be irrelevant in a sport you don't need to be a state fan anymore.

[bulldogcountry1]

Winning the CWS. That will keep me tolerant of a lot of things for months.

[dawgs]

You know that roster full of players this year and last that can't shoot, well guess what, they won't shoot well next year either. John Wooden couldn't take this bunch to the NCAA tournament.

They're good kids and I like Sword as a player but we just don't have the talent to get there yet. Losing that group of seniors after next season will open some doors recruiting wise.

I don't know if Ray will make it or not but we are some ways away from being a tournament team. Making the field of 64 would make me happy next year but it's not realistic with the talent level we have in the program currently, regardless of experience.

Having a lot of starters return doesn't mean much if they aren't good players.

And at some point whose fault is it we don't have any good players?

[dawgs]

I dont think anybody is sold on Ray's improvement to this point. 6-12 in the SEC is unacceptable in Year 3

Well for some of us it's not enough improvement to give us any hope of significant improvement to being a consistent tourney-ish team and we want to move on now before continuing to dig ourselves deeper, whereas apparently some of y'all wanna dig a little deeper.

[IMissJack]

NIT at Minimum

No way I'm happy with NIT after 4 years. NIT is BS.

[smootness]

Go ahead and find a new college team to cheer for if that is you attitude. Part being a fan is going through the bad and good. So you can't handle be irrelevant in a sport you don't need to be a state fan anymore.

Dang, Rayburn. I might like you after all.

[smootness]

Winning the CWS. That will keep me tolerant of a lot of things for months.

Best post in the thread, and very true.

[dawgs]

Go ahead and find a new college team to cheer for if that is you attitude. Part being a fan is going through the bad and good. So you can't handle be irrelevant in a sport you don't need to be a state fan anymore.

When we suck, voicing our displeasure whether online, in person, or with our wallets are the only forms of recourse most of us have. Blindly supporting a trainwreck and not letting the admin know how upset you are with their decisions and the direction of the program is basically telling them you are fine staying the course. I am not fine staying the course.

[Schultzy]

And at some point whose fault is it we don't have any good players?

I get that, it's a fair point. If Ray is going to succeed he will have to find guys who can score at this level. I think if he ever gets some offensive guys on the roster he will win with them. But how much time will he get? I'm in the being more patient crowd on this but realize I'm in the minority.

I just shake my head when people say Ray is a poor offensive mind, his dribble drive and draw fouls is the only game plan available to him with a roster full of mediocre at best shooters.

Now his inbounds needs some work. I hope he makes it bc I like him for some reason.

[IMissJack]

I get that, it's a fair point. If Ray is going to succeed he will have to find guys who can score at this level. I think if he ever gets some offensive guys on the roster he will win with them. But how much time will he get? I'm in the being more patient crowd on this but realize I'm in the minority.

I just shake my head when people say Ray is a poor offensive mind, his dribble drive and draw fouls is the only game plan available to him with a roster full of mediocre at best shooters.

Now his inbounds needs some work. I hope he makes it bc I like him for some reason.

I don't dislike Ray, but my whole problem with the situation is that Stricklin (or whoever) made MSU basketball irrelevant with the way this hire went from the beginning. If I have to hire a high level replacement employee that handles one of our three biggest accounts, and I hire someone that has never had experience with accounts as big as ours, and is coming from a company that is not that successful, I better hope that employee does a great job, or my butt is on the carpet. This is what happened with MSU basketball.

[Rayburn8]

When we suck, voicing our displeasure whether online, in person, or with our wallets are the only forms of recourse most of us have. Blindly supporting a trainwreck and not letting the admin know how upset you are with their decisions and the direction of the program is basically telling them you are fine staying the course. I am not fine staying the course.

It is not about be fine staying the course, but saying you want to find a total new team because of it is the wrong attitude to have. He basically said he didn't want to follow MSU basketball anymore because they are not good right now. At the end of the day I will support the coach in place at MSU because I am a fan of the school not the coach. If said coach is fired I will support the next coach the same way I supported the previous coach, whether I like the hire or not. I may think the coach should be fired but that won't stop me from supporting him and the team as long as Mississippi State is on the front of that jersey.

[dawgs]

It is not about be fine staying the course, but saying you want to find a total new team because of it is the wrong attitude to have. He basically said he didn't want to follow MSU basketball anymore because they are not good right now. At the end of the day I will support the coach in place at MSU because I am a fan of the school not the coach. If said coach is fired I will support the next coach the same way I supported the previous coach, whether I like the hire or not. I may think the coach should be fired but that won't stop me from supporting him and the team as long as Mississippi State is on the front of that jersey.

Guess you aren't familiar with figures of speech.

[preachermatt83]

No way I'm happy with NIT after 4 years. NIT is BS.

Amen!! Wasn't NIT supposed to be everyone's minimum expectation this yr?

[Tbonewannabe]

I get that, it's a fair point. If Ray is going to succeed he will have to find guys who can score at this level. I think if he ever gets some offensive guys on the roster he will win with them. But how much time will he get? I'm in the being more patient crowd on this but realize I'm in the minority.

I just shake my head when people say Ray is a poor offensive mind, his dribble drive and draw fouls is the only game plan available to him with a roster full of mediocre at best shooters.

Now his inbounds needs some work. I hope he makes it bc I like him for some reason.

Inbounds needing work is very generous. I don't know if I have actually seen an Inbounds play. RR needs to hire a good offensive assistant and let them work. That seemed to be Stans biggest problem. Recruiting is improving but you still have to coach them when they get here. Offensively were are as bad as I have seen at MSU.

[sorrydog]

Beat Ole Miss twice and the rest will work itself out.
But my confidence level is <10%

[Dawg61]

So Ray could win the national championship here next year, and you wouldn't be happy? Makes sense

Bloodman could be the #1 overall draft pick too. Keeping Ray here next year puts MSU in an even bigger hole. Keeping him when we already know his fate is what doesn't make sense.