Grasshopper Role Play: What do you do with men's basketball?

[Political Hack]

1) Do you make a move?

2) If so, when do you do it?

3) How much are you realistically willing to spend (considering payouts, investments in football and baseball, etc...) (Interested in Engie's number here)

4) Who do you target with your amount in Q3 in mind?

[Irondawg]

1) The key to this one for Scott is right now what is your confidence level that he's the right guy. You shouldn't be unsure b/c when you look around you have the right guy in football, baseball and women's basketball so you know what the right guy looks like. My eyes tell me he's not the right guy. While recruiting is improving and competitivenes in most games is improving I still don't see a great coach and I think his celing as a recruiter is to be slightly above average.

However, I see 2% of what Scott does and that other 98% determines if he gets another year or not.

4) May impact #1 as the question really is "if not Ray, who?" who do you think you can realistically get for our $2M or so and is that a big upgrade or not? I started to make a list when we were imploding in December and then put it down when we had our resurgence in January which made me think he was assured of another year.

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

1) Yes I do.

2) The day after we lose in SEC Tourney.

3) I try and find a mid major coach and pay 1.5 million maybe more depending how big of a name they are.

4) I go all in and try and hire Michael White. He turned down Tennessee so I'm not sure if we could get him. We have to hire somebody just to get some excitement and life back in our basketball program. Maybe Underwood at Stephen F. Austin? Joe Dooley at FGCU? Kenny Payne? It's Year 3 and there is no Program Changer coming in next year. I think best way to get Malik would be to hire Payne but I'm not sure if he is the best long term solution.

[CottonDog]

Does Ray give back a million since we payed him for 3 years, but he only thinks 2 count?

[msstate7]

1. Yes

2. After sec tourney

3. 2 million

4. Larry eustachy

[Raytoraid83]

Does Ray give back a million since we payed him for 3 years, but he only thinks 2 count?
+1

[TXDawg]

1) Yes
2) Day after we lose in SECT
3) $2.0MM+ Gotta pay the big bucks to hire a winner. We (apparently) tried the low-ball approach in hiring Stansbury's replacement and we see where that's gotten us. If we do that again, the program may never recover.
4) I have no idea. I don't follow BBall coaches enough to know who's the next "up and comer" or who's an established coach that we might be able to pull from his current role. I do know this, though, it needs to be a homerun hire.

[Dawg61]

1. Yes

2. After sec tourney

3. 2 million

4. Larry eustachy

You've lost your damn mind paying Eustachy 2 mill. He'd take it for a case of Budweiser and some Jack Daniels.

[msstate7]

You've lost your damn mind paying Eustachy 2 mill. He'd take it for a case of Budweiser and some Jack Daniels.

Even better haha...

He's making right at a million now at a job with no stress. I think we'd have to up his salary pretty good to get em here. Maybe 1.5 then

[MabenMaroon]

Merge it with the women's team, take the best couple of players and give them the 'Juwanna Mann' makeover and let the others give the women practice scrimmages. And then move over UConn we are taking over as the dominant team in women's basketball. Hell it worked for Baylor with Brittany Griner.

[gtowndawg]

So I will play along...

1.) Yes

2.) After SEC Tourney

3.) 2 million

4.) I honestly don't know. Have no where to go but up though.

[mic]

1) Yes I do.

2) The day after we lose in SEC Tourney.

3) I try and find a mid major coach and pay 1.5 million maybe more depending how big of a name they are.

4) I go all in and try and hire Michael White. He turned down Tennessee so I'm not sure if we could get him. We have to hire somebody just to get some excitement and life back in our basketball program. Maybe Underwood at Stephen F. Austin? Joe Dooley at FGCU? Kenny Payne? It's Year 3 and there is no Program Changer coming in next year. I think best way to get Malik would be to hire Payne but I'm not sure if he is the best long term solution.

Michael White isn't coming here no matter what... His choice.. Even if we did want him..

[Acid mouth]

1) Yes. My ole miss friends like RR. That speaks volumes.
2) As soon as Scott is prepared. I'm betting he is prepared this go round. This spur of the moment hire stuff couldn't have been worse.
3) Whatever the coach is worth. RR isn't worth 500K much less 1mil. I'd be ok with 1-2 mil depending on their previous success/experience.
4) Engie has an awesome list. Hopefully he will post it

[SouthMsDawg]

Seems as if as soon as Coach34 assured us that Ray wasn't going anywhere we all of a sudden dropped 7 or our last 8 and 5 straight. And our only win being against the worst team in the SEC, Missouri.

[shannondawg]

One thing that needs to be considered , if per chance we luck up and Scott fire RR and hires another coach almost everyone agrees is a good hire. Do we still bash a coach that is twice removed from the program, or do we tee off on Ray to keep the hits coming for the board?

[cheewgumm]

I'd let him stay next year, and if we don't make the NIT, I'd let him go.

If we make the NIT ,I'd let him stay another year. He'd have to make the NIT that year, then the NCAA the year after. IF not any of those steps, I'd let him go.

[tcdog70]

Would we want a Coach that
1. has been to the final 4
2. has experience in the SEC
3. has been known to recruit really well
4. Is available?

well I would go get John Brady, He has been at MSU. He might could get Butch Pierre, voted the top assistant in the big 12. This just Me, But Brady could have taken this team to the NIT. Don't pay a a big amount for some young guy that might get eaten alive in the SEC. It hasn't worked real well For other Teams in the SEC. I would go with tried and true.

[codeDawg]

1. Yes

2. After SEC tournament

3. 2 million with significant stretch goal based bonuses

4. We should use a search firm and THIS time we involve Mullen and Cohen in the recruitment and selection process. It's obvious from the last go around that Scott isn't an outstanding salesperson or recruiter. The "you gotta work for it here" approach may work on a certain brand of 17 year-old kid, but not coaches.

Let's take our coaches that have had success at MSU out there and talk about how it is possible for the right person to win at the highest level at MSU despite some resource constraints. We have to find someone who understands the challenges, but can also see the opportunities at MSU. That's what make Mullen and Cohen special here.

Also, it's time for SS to admit a mistake, bury the hatchet with the old pro-Stansbury crowd, and get everybody rowing in the same direction. He may have painted a grand vision and moved Ray in next door to show his solidarity, but in reality he just screwed Ray's career by putting him in a situation he wasn't ready for. It was probably an interesting plan, but it isn't working out. Let's move on.

[shannondawg]

Benches are full of ex head coaches that are now assistants.

[tcdog70]

Benches are full of ex head coaches that are now assistants.


i'll agree-but how many have been to the final four and been named SEC coach of the year. Please list them.

[HailState39110]

1) after SECT

2) Kermit Davis Jr. HC & Robert Kirby Assoc Head Coach

3) KDJ - $1.2 Million Kirby -$600k

4) lets go win baby

[Dawg61]

Does Adidas play the game like Nike and WWW do? Maybe Adidas has a coach they like for the job.

[mic]

1) after SECT

2) Kermit Davis Jr. HC & Robert Kirby Assoc Head Coach

3) KDJ - $1.2 Million Kirby -$600k

4) lets go win baby

KDJ would be a very good hire.. Would probably have to offer Kirby assoc head . Still not sure he would come back..

[Dawg61]

KDJ would be a very good hire.. Would probably have to offer Kirby assoc head . Still not sure he would come back..

KDJ is 15-14 in CUSA this year. No thank you.

[DudyDawg]

Benches are full of ex head coaches that are now assistants.

And my favorite on that list is jeff Capel. Did well at OU and is now at Duke.

[Dawg61]

Hubert Davis. UNC assistant.

[Johnson85]

One thing that needs to be considered , if per chance we luck up and Scott fire RR and hires another coach almost everyone agrees is a good hire. Do we still bash a coach that is twice removed from the program, or do we tee off on Ray to keep the hits coming for the board?

Depends. If Ray bashes the program, he becomes the Crooms of MSU basketball and Stansbury becomes the Kang. If Ray says thanks for the opportunity and the check, sorry it didn't work out, then we talk about how it's a shame such an upstanding guy like Ray was left an untenable situation by Stansbury.**


But seriously, I hope that once we get to our next coach, people can appreciate Stansbury for all he did for the university without focusing on his shortcoming and without people claiming he was asked to step down too soon.

[mic]

KDJ is 15-14 in CUSA this year. No thank you.

Your right...
2011-2012 ... 27-7
2012-2013... 28-4 ncaa tourney
2013-2014... 24-9.

He should have gotten the gig after Richard was let go...

[Irondawg]

I'm not favoring Ray but I don't think John Brady or KDJ is a massive upgrade. Not what i'm looking for if we can Ray

[Dawg61]

Your right...
2011-2012 ... 27-7
2012-2013... 28-4 ncaa tourney
2013-2014... 24-9.

He should have gotten the gig after Richard was let go...

Two of those years were in the Sun Belt. Before those three he went...

16-14
17-12
19-12
16-12
15-17
17-15
18-14
19-14
16-16

Not exactly lighting the world on fire.

[shannondawg]

delete

[mic]

Only one I know sits at the radio announcers table.

I would take that...

[mic]

Two of those years were in the Sun Belt. Before those three he went...

16-14
17-12
19-12
16-12
15-17
17-15
18-14
19-14
16-16

Not exactly lighting the world on fire.

I didn't say he was Coach K...
But he would be an upgrade over the last 2 we have had here..

[SouthMsDawg]

Two of those years were in the Sun Belt. Before those three he went...

16-14
17-12
19-12
16-12
15-17
17-15
18-14
19-14
16-16

Not exactly lighting the world on fire.

Every one of those seasons are better than the past 3 that we have had.

[mic]

Two of those years were in the Sun Belt. Before those three he went...

16-14
17-12
19-12
16-12
15-17
17-15
18-14
19-14
16-16

Not exactly lighting the world on fire.

Also I think about 8 or 9 of those sun belt teams came over to CUSA..

[Dawg61]

Every one of those seasons are better than the past 3 that we have had.

It's the Sun Belt. For 2 mill a year lets get a top 25 HC. Nothing against KDJ I just think it's imperative that we knock this hire out of the park this time. We are in danger of going on a decade run in the graveyard of cbb. My standards are very high for 2 MM a year.

[Dawg61]

Also I think about 8 or 9 of those sun belt teams came over to CUSA..

Or two. Middle Tennessee and FAU.

[DanDority]

Hubert Davis. UNC assistant.

I'd love him, but I don't think he would be willing to leave the ACC but if we paid up for the head coach you never know....

[mic]

Or two. Middle Tennessee and FAU.

Well. I haven't loked it up .
But along with those 2 I know western ky and FIU did.. I assumed there were probably a few more..

[mic]

I'd love him, but I don't think he would be willing to leave the ACC but if we paid up for the head coach you never know....

I have nothing against Hubert Davis and he may be the next great coach.. But are going too Pay what it would probably take to get him , on an assistant coach who has only been coaching 2 years on any level..?

[Dawg61]

Well. I haven't loked it up .
But along with those 2 I know western ky and FIU did.. I assumed there were probably a few more..

I'll concede KDJ isn't the worst we could do. He does have a cool nickname "Froggie".

[tcdog70]

Your right...
2011-2012 ... 27-7
2012-2013... 28-4 ncaa tourney
2013-2014... 24-9.

He should have gotten the gig after Richard was let go...

right you are. If he had this team, we would see some offense and would at least be in the NIT. Also he has beaten the Rebs the last 2 out of 3.

[tcdog70]

John Brady would a huge upgrade over Rick Ray-are you kidding? Hell he kicked Ray ass this year with Arkansas State. Put him back in the SEC and see what he can do. LSU has suxed since He left.

[smootness]

Two of those years were in the Sun Belt. Before those three he went...

16-14
17-12
19-12
16-12
15-17
17-15
18-14
19-14
16-16

Not exactly lighting the world on fire.

Thank you. People are complaining about taking more than 3 years to turn things into a positive direction, yet want a guy who has already proven it took him a full decade to get to 20 wins in a lesser conference?

Kermit Davis is in no way a better option than Stans. It would be completely pointless for us to have gotten rid of Stans if we're going to ultimately hire Kermit Davis. Good grief.

[smootness]

John Brady would a huge upgrade over Rick Ray-are you kidding? Hell he kicked Ray ass this year with Arkansas State. Put him back in the SEC and see what he can do. LSU has suxed since He left.

I've seen you spell 'suck' this way before...please tell me you actually know that's not how it's spelled?

[mic]

Thank you. People are complaining about taking more than 3 years to turn things into a positive direction, yet want a guy who has already proven it took him a full decade to get to 20 wins in a lesser conference?

Kermit Davis is in no way a better option than Stans. It would be completely pointless for us to have gotten rid of Stans if we're going to ultimately hire Kermit Davis. Good grief.

No one said that KDJ is a hall of fame coach..
But if you think he is downgrade from our present and last coach your wrong. And I bet you if KDJ had come here after Stands left with what he inherited And kept Sword Gavin and Thomas to work with we would be at least a NIT team this year..
No one said he would be a homerun hire, but who would be.?
I had rather go the ex coach or present coach route than go the assistant route.
Which SEC school right now has a head coach with no previous D1 head coaching experience? Zero that I can think of.
Hell we haven't made a basketball hire like that since who?

No matter who it is they have to bring energy to the program and get the fan base back...

[sandwolf]

Which SEC school right now has a head coach with no previous D1 head coaching experience? Zero that I can think of.

Mississippi State

[mic]

Mississippi State

Exactly.. And the previous 2 didn't either... Just saying maybe let's go that route and see what happens.. If we have to roll the dice on the next hire and don't have that homerun hire let's get a present head or ex head coach in here

[smootness]

No one said that KDJ is a hall of fame coach..
But if you think he is downgrade from our present and last coach your wrong. And I bet you if KDJ had come here after Stands left with what he inherited And kept Sword Gavin and Thomas to work with we would be at least a NIT team this year..
No one said he would be a homerun hire, but who would be.?
I had rather go the ex coach or present coach route than go the assistant route.
Which SEC school right now has a head coach with no previous D1 head coaching experience? Zero that I can think of.
Hell we haven't made a basketball hire like that since who?

No matter who it is they have to bring energy to the program and get the fan base back...

I would rather go with an unknown than a guy who has proven it will take him years and years to produce a quality product. I have no idea how you can claim Davis would have been a better option than Stans. That's absurd to me.

Missouri also hired a guy w/o D1 HC experience, btw. Not that that's a great example haha.

[mic]

I would rather go with an unknown than a guy who has proven it will take him years and years to produce a quality product. I have no idea how you can claim Davis would have been a better option than Stans. That's absurd to me.

Missouri also hired a guy w/o D1 HC experience, btw. Not that that's a great example haha.

I think ur right about Anderson at Mizzu. But I think he won a recent national championship at D2 or D3..
And no that's not a great example so far...

[C222]

No Eustachy, Brady, or Kermit.

Here are some good choices:
Mchael White - don't think we could get him. Turned down UT last year
Brad Underwood - Stephen F Austin
Ben Jacobson - Northern Iowa
Bobby Hurley - Buffalo

And if you want to get a ton of talent but risk the possibility of going on probation, we could get Ben Howland.

[tcdog70]

I've seen you spell 'suck' this way before...please tell me you actually know that's not how it's spelled?

no shit Sherlock-i should have axed u how to spell it. i would have asked Coach but he can't spell Stans.

[tcdog70]

No Eustachy, Brady, or Kermit.

Here are some good choices:
Mchael White - don't think we could get him. Turned down UT last year
Brad Underwood - Stephen F Austin
Ben Jacobson - Northern Iowa
Bobby Hurley - Buffalo

And if you want to get a ton of talent but risk the possibility of going on probation, we could get Ben Howland.

i like White but Eustachy, Brady and Kermit probably know more about basketball and how to recruit than all those young Guys put together. i think there is no chance in hiring any of those three. You know there was a time when the consensus opinion was don't Hire Jackie ,let's hire some young up and comer.

[msstate7]

No Eustachy, Brady, or Kermit.

Here are some good choices:
Mchael White - don't think we could get him. Turned down UT last year
Brad Underwood - Stephen F Austin
Ben Jacobson - Northern Iowa
Bobby Hurley - Buffalo

And if you want to get a ton of talent but risk the possibility of going on probation, we could get Ben Howland.

I can certainly understand not wanting eustachy bc of his past, but no one on your list comes close to eustachy's track record. Eustachy has led 4 programs (Utah st, isu, usm, and csu) to the ncaa. He's a winner that's already won in our state.

[Irondawg]

Howland by all accounts is a total ahole so not sure that would be a good fit.

Here's a few other names with about 10 minutes of looking at the coaching staffs of some top 25 teams:

Joe Pasternack - Asst. Arizona. has new orleans ties as was a head coach at UNO. Two good years and two terrible ones make him a risky hire. But I think guys learn a lot from their first HC gig and he's been in a top program the past few years.

Damon Stoudamire - Asst. Arizona - no idea but he's into coaching and has name recognition as a former NBA player. might be worth at least sniffing around and seeing if you think he's got anything special about him

Kerry Johnson - Asst. Louisville

Jeff Capel - Asst. Duke - has been mentioned befoe

[smootness]

no shit Sherlock-i should have axed u how to spell it. i would have asked Coach but he can't spell Stans.

Haha, well 'sux' is fine, but 'suxed' just reads weird. I couldn't get past it.

[smootness]

No thanks on Capel. Stoudamire is an interesting name, though I'm not sure he'd be willing to come here.

[DudyDawg]

No thanks on Capel. Stoudamire is an interesting name, though I'm not sure he'd be willing to come here.

Why no on Capel? Not fighting you, just curious.

[Irondawg]

Since we're talking about coaches who once did something good, let's throw Tim Floyd out there as well.

[tcdog70]

here is why I like John Brady

In 10 seasons at LSU, Brady compiled a 184–126 record, including two SEC Regular Season Titles and four NCAA tournament appearances. A sweet 16 and a final Four. he has a record of 380-306 for .554% . I would take that in the next 10 years at MSU. Now show me a Coach that we could sign with a better resume' than that

[Irondawg]

I wouldn't cry if we hired Capel but I wouldn't jump up and down either. I don't think he's terrible but I'm not sure he's really anything special either. I have no idea who i'd hire. There are a lot of good coaches out there so the biggest thing is finding a fit with who can recruit the area and who's style fits the types of athletes we are most likely to recruit.

[tcdog70]

Haha, well 'sux' is fine, but 'suxed' just reads weird. I couldn't get past it.

Smoot that is Old School-guess you youngsters don't go back far enough.

[tcdog70]

Since we're talking about coaches who once did something good, let's throw Tim Floyd out there as well.

Hell yes-He is good enough to Coach in the NBA

[smootness]

Why no on Capel? Not fighting you, just curious.

He ultimately failed at Oklahoma, and looking back at his VCU tenure, subsequent coaches did much better than he did there. I just don't want to be the school to give him his second chance.

On guy I would consider, though, is Tommy Amaker. Only mediocre at Michigan, but Harvard gave him his second chance, and it looks like he's figured things out. He's done incredible things there. He's one step beyond where Capel is now. I think Amaker would be a home run, personally.

[msstate7]

here is why I like John Brady

In 10 seasons at LSU, Brady compiled a 184–126 record, including two SEC Regular Season Titles and four NCAA tournament appearances. A sweet 16 and a final Four. he has a record of 380-306 for .554% . I would take that in the next 10 years at MSU. Now show me a Coach that we could sign with a better resume' than that

Id have no problem with Brady.

Here's eustachy's resume...

466-287 (.619)

2 big 12 regular season championships.

Big 12 tourney champ

2 big west regular season champs

Big west tourney champ

Big sky regular season champ

5 ncaa appearance with an elite 8

[Johnson85]

Id have no problem with Brady.

Here's eustachy's resume...

466-287 (.619)

2 big 12 regular season championships.

Big 12 tourney champ

2 big west regular season champs

Big west tourney champ

Big sky regular season champ

5 ncaa appearance with an elite 8

Not that I'd be opposed to Brady, but we would look kind of dumb getting rid of Stansbury, going through 3 years of suckage, and then hiring Brady. Unless I am forgetting where Brady dominated Stansbury, I was thinking they were basically the same coach except that Brady had a team get hot in the NCAA (which happned to have two NBA players from his home city) and Stansbury didn't. In fact, I think Stansbury could do just as well if he came back (I know that won't happen). I think the main reason Stansbury had to go was that there was no way for him to hit reset on the locker room.

[tcdog70]

That is why I like Brady and Eustacy. Look at their resume'. But I like Tommy Amaker also. We need to figure out just what it is we want in a Coach. I want proven winners, ability to recruit in the South, have they had success in the Big Dance.

[Dawg61]

That is why I like Brady and Eustacy. Look at their resume'. But I like Tommy Amaker also. We need to figure out just what it is we want in a Coach. I want proven winners, ability to recruit in the South, have they had success in the Big Dance.

I want offense and a team that can shoot, pass and dribble 1-13. I want a coach that will develop a system and develop players in his system.

[HailState39110]

alot of times it's about a coach knowing the system and the recruiting in the state and Kermit Davis Jr. knows both . Why did Gene Chizik win a natl championship at Auburn? It's not because he is a good coach. He knew Auburn's system and worked it all the way to a natty title . KDJ and Kirby both know what it takes to win at MSU

[smootness]

Why did Gene Chizik win a natl championship at Auburn? It's not because he is a good coach. The new Auburn's system and worked it

Cam Newton

He was garbage otherwise.

[War Machine Dawg]

Cam Newton

He was garbage otherwise.

Best $180K investment ever. And the worst $180K we never spent.

[sandwolf]

Cam Newton

He was garbage otherwise.

Yep....Auburn won a Natty because of Cam Newton and Gus Malzahn. Chizik's ass had nothing to do with it.