Ray has taken a step back

[DudyDawg]

After tonight, he will have to win an SEC Tourney game just to equal our win total from last year. That ain't good. Something has to change. I don't know if that's him, or others on that staff, but something has to change

ETA. Gotta beat mizzou saturday and win an sect game. 12 wins now, finished w 14 last year

[Dawg61]

12-18 in his third year is unacceptable

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

I strongly disagree. He has stayed consistently terrible.

[Dawgface]

But he will be our coach next year. Yippeeeeeeee.........

[RougeDawg]

I strongly disagree. He has stayed consistently terrible.

I concur. He would have actually had to have taken any type of step forward for him to have any chance of taking a step back. Ray has been stuck in a huge steaming pile of shit since day one and hasn't stepped out of it. It was clear to many here from day 1, that this day was coming.

[chef dixon]

Huge improvement on the almost wins column though. I think the committee has to give us a good look for that.

[Coach34]

his lack of recruiting is a killer right now. Having no better options at PG and C off the bench is inexcuseable

[bluelightstar]

At least we didn't set and/or break the Mississippi State record for consecutive SEC losses like we did the past 2 years.

[It_Could_Happen]

I completely agree. I was all for him getting another year earlier, but we have looked horrendous down the stretch. It's time for a change.

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

Someone that thinks Ray deserves another year please explain to me why you want him to come back. I honestly see no reason why he should get another year, but maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture. We lose Roquez that hurts, lose Bloodman (doesn't hurt at all), we get Struggs (major project), Zuppardo (got hot during juco tournament but averaged 1 pt and 1 rebound at Arkansas state), Weatherspoon (nice signee just don't think he will be the rainmaker his freshman year), and tookie (undersized scoring PG). I see no way we can make the Tourney and I see us being a bubble NIT team. Is that good enough in year 4?

[msstate7]

Someone that thinks Ray deserves another year please explain to me why you want him to come back. I honestly see no reason why he should get another year, but maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture. We lose Roquez that hurts, lose Bloodman (doesn't hurt at all), we get Struggs (major project), Zuppardo (got hot during juco tournament but averaged 1 pt and 1 rebound at Arkansas state), Weatherspoon (nice signee just don't think he will be the rainmaker his freshman year), and tookie (undersized scoring PG). I see no way we can make the Tourney and I see us being a bubble NIT team. Is that good enough in year 4?

I think you slight zuppardo. I have no idea if he will be good enough to get us over the hump, but here's his juco stats...

15.2 ppg, 61.7 fg%, 43.3 3-pt %, 6.9 rebs

He avg'd 19 ppg in juco tourney, so I wouldn't say he just got hot in juco tourney. He played in the juco all star game.

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

I think you slight zuppardo. I have no idea if he will be good enough to get us over the hump, but here's his juco stats...

15.2 ppg, 61.7 fg%, 43.3 3-pt %, 6.9 rebs

He avg'd 19 ppg in juco tourney, so I wouldn't say he just got hot in juco tourney. He played in the juco all star game.

All I know is that we didn't recruit him until late in the process when he got hot during the juco tourney.

[msstate7]

All I know is that we didn't recruit him until late in the process when he got hot during the juco tourney.

Most everyone here wanted us to get pollard. Here's his juco stats...

12.0 ppg, 59.4 fg%, 0 3-pt %, 6.3 rebs

Zuppardo beat him in every category

[dawgs]

if you can't see improvement, you aren't looking :rolleyes:

[TheDogFather]

his lack of recruiting is a killer right now. Having no better options at PG and C off the bench is inexcuseable

What happened to the full roster gonna make the difference? I'll have to admit - your excuses are very flexible.

[Dawgface]

if you can't see improvement, you aren't looking :rolleyes:

Well played.

[starkvegasdawg]

I see the people that think Ray deserves another year took a walk together to discuss things.

https://nfb.org/Images/nfb/Images/free_walk.gif

[msstate7]

I see the people that think Ray deserves another year took a walk together to discuss things.

https://nfb.org/Images/nfb/Images/free_walk.gif

I'm not sure anyone other than SS thinks Ray DESERVES another year. I think there's several of us that just realize Ray will get another year so we look for any sign that things are getting better. No one is convinced ray can get us over the hump

[MadDawg]

12-18 in his third year is unacceptable

You mean year one, right?

[MadDawg]

At least we didn't set and/or break the Mississippi State record for consecutive SEC losses like we did the past 2 years.

If you can't see the improvement, you are blind. ***

[Political Hack]

his lack of recruiting is a killer right now. Having no better options at PG and C off the bench is inexcuseable

how about a two man for our starting group? In year three? One shooter who can create off the dribble when needed? One. Is that too much to ask?

We've gotten worse. This BS about "progress" is garbage.

[maroonmania]

What happened to the full roster gonna make the difference? I'll have to admit - your excuses are very flexible.

Well, it apparently has made the difference between losing most all of our SEC games by 10 to 15 points to now where we are losing most of our SEC games by 4 to 10 points. So there is that. We are a slightly improved team from what we had the past 2 years (in the SEC that is, the pre-SEC was a disaster) but it hasn't translated to many more wins. We likely end up with 6 SEC wins but that is not near enough of a move up to show real progress. Ray's first 2 years were understandable given what he inherited and the injuries so I stayed behind him but he's lost me this year. This team has no clue how to win and every game is a replay. We essentially hang around in games and then have no clue how to finish. Even though we were within 2 to 4 points most of the latter part of the game last night I never had ANY hope that we would actually win. That is NOT a good feeling to have while watching your team play.

[TheDogFather]

Most everyone here wanted us to get pollard. Here's his juco stats...

12.0 ppg, 59.4 fg%, 0 3-pt %, 6.3 rebs

Zuppardo beat him in every category

So, Zuppardo was better than another player with shitty stats?

[maroonmania]

So, Zuppardo was better than another player with shitty stats?

Hey, at least they are also better JUCO stats than Travis Daniels had.

[tcdog70]

Most everyone here wanted us to get pollard. Here's his juco stats...

12.0 ppg, 59.4 fg%, 0 3-pt %, 6.3 rebs

Zuppardo beat him in every category


Pollard is averaging double figures and 6 reb a game where He starts at Houston. He has been named player of the week a couple of times.Who averages that on our team Now--Chicken-who else? Shit, I hope Zup scores tons of points. But I believe He is a spot up shooter who has to be set up to shoot. I so far haven't seen Ray be able to set up a shooter. I think Ready could be a great spot up shooter, but I never see a play run to get Him a shot. Did you notice how Vandy goes inside out for their spot up shooters? That never crosses our minds. Shooting a 3 with your dribble is a lot better than shooting off the dribble.

[tcdog70]

I'm not sure anyone other than SS thinks Ray DESERVES another year. I think there's several of us that just realize Ray will get another year so we look for any sign that things are getting better. No one is convinced ray can get us over the hump


i believe a couple of weeks ago You and some others were suggesting how we were going to win 3 of our last 4 games. Now we might win 1. Last night Chicken was Hot, what did Ray do take Him and Ready out of the game. We would be better if every trip the Ball went through Chicken.

[msstate7]

Pollard is averaging double figures and 6 reb a game where He starts at Houston. He has been named player of the week a couple of times.Who averages that on our team Now--Chicken-who else? Shit, I hope Zup scores tons of points. But I believe He is a spot up shooter who has to be set up to shoot. I so far haven't seen Ray be able to set up a shooter. I think Ready could be a great spot up shooter, but I never see a play run to get Him a shot. Did you notice how Vandy goes inside out for their spot up shooters? That never crosses our minds. Shooting a 3 with your dribble is a lot better than shooting off the dribble.

I agree we have to set up shooters better. If zuppardo is on the perimeter, he could get plenty of open shots if sword and Houston kick it out to him off their drive

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Pollard is averaging double figures and 6 reb a game where He starts at Houston. He has been named player of the week a couple of times.Who averages that on our team Now--Chicken-who else? Shit, I hope Zup scores tons of points. But I believe He is a spot up shooter who has to be set up to shoot. I so far haven't seen Ray be able to set up a shooter. I think Ready could be a great spot up shooter, but I never see a play run to get Him a shot. Did you notice how Vandy goes inside out for their spot up shooters? That never crosses our minds. Shooting a 3 with your dribble is a lot better than shooting off the dribble.

Not that I disagree with you bc I don't but honest question who is going to set Ready up for the 3? Noboby seem to be capable of running a play, dribbling, & giving a good pass to get Ready the shot.

[tcdog70]

I agree we have to set up shooters better. If zuppardo is on the perimeter, he could get plenty of open shots if sword and Houston kick it out to him off their drive

IF? a big word-why don't they do that now?

[tcdog70]

Not that I disagree with you bc I don't but honest question who is going to set Ready up for the 3? Noboby seem to be capable of running a play, dribbling, & giving a good pass to get Ready the shot.


And whose fault is that? We only have 1 man capable of an assist after 3 years?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

And whose fault is that? We only have 1 man capable of an assist after 3 years?

We know whose fault it is. That wasn't the intent of my post. My post was meant to say yea I would love to run Ready off a down screen out for a 3 but I don't have the faith that we have anyone who could run the offense to run the play.

[Tbonewannabe]

Not that I disagree with you bc I don't but honest question who is going to set Ready up for the 3? Noboby seem to be capable of running a play, dribbling, & giving a good pass to get Ready the shot.

Watch our team and then watch the women's team. Big difference between just passing and dribbling. We have great athletes who happen to play basketball. Our offense looks like a rec league game.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Watch our team and then watch the women's team. Big difference between just passing and dribbling. We have great athletes who happen to play basketball. Our offense looks like a rec league game.

I watch all the girls games & I agree but also when we need a bucket we have 3 girls we can go to & feel really good about it getting done. Drop it to Alwal in the post, run a play for Vivians to get a jumper, or Williams to break a defender down. At the end of the day you have to have people who can just go get you a bucket when the offense isn't working & we have exactly 1 player who can do that right now & that's Sword.

[Coach34]

I watch all the girls games & I agree but also when we need a bucket we have 3 girls we can go to & feel really good about it getting done. Drop it to Alwal in the post, run a play for Vivians to get a jumper, or Williams to break a defender down. At the end of the day you have to have people who can just go get you a bucket when the offense isn't working & we have exactly 1 player who can do that right now & that's Sword.

this- its not the offense- it's the people running it that need to be better.

With Stands- we just passed it around the perimeter and took a lot of 3-balls late in the shot clock because of our lack of movement vs zone. It wasn't unusual for a Stands team to shoot 28-30 3's vs a team that zoned them a lot

Ray's guys got the ball inside last nite to Ware- which was the intent. Ware just wasn't good enough to finish the play. And it happened twice in a row at a crucial point in the game unfortunately. But we got the shot the offense itself intended to get

[Tbonewannabe]

I watch all the girls games & I agree but also when we need a bucket we have 3 girls we can go to & feel really good about it getting done. Drop it to Alwal in the post, run a play for Vivians to get a jumper, or Williams to break a defender down. At the end of the day you have to have people who can just go get you a bucket when the offense isn't working & we have exactly 1 player who can do that right now & that's Sword.

I was more talking about just passing and dribbling. We don't seem like a good fundamental team. Just from our assist to turnover ratio.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I was more talking about just passing and dribbling. We don't seem like a good fundamental team. Just from our assist to turnover ratio.

Oh yea I agree.

[codeDawg]

this- its not the offense- it's the people running it that need to be better.

With Stands- we just passed it around the perimeter and took a lot of 3-balls late in the shot clock because of our lack of movement vs zone. It wasn't unusual for a Stands team to shoot 28-30 3's vs a team that zoned them a lot

Ray's guys got the ball inside last nite to Ware- which was the intent. Ware just wasn't good enough to finish the play. And it happened twice in a row at a crucial point in the game unfortunately. But we got the shot the offense itself intended to get

Dude. We just got passed by Indiana Purdue University Fort Wayne in KenPom. It's everything, and Ray is responsible for everything. You sound like Freeze.

[DudyDawg]

this- its not the offense- it's the people running it that need to be better.

With Stands- we just passed it around the perimeter and took a lot of 3-balls late in the shot clock because of our lack of movement vs zone. It wasn't unusual for a Stands team to shoot 28-30 3's vs a team that zoned them a lot

Ray's guys got the ball inside last nite to Ware- which was the intent. Ware just wasn't good enough to finish the play. And it happened twice in a row at a crucial point in the game unfortunately. But we got the shot the offense itself intended to get

It's the offense too. We have exactly one play against the zone that isn't "pass it around the perimeter and maybe cut high post sometimes"

[Gatordog]

this- its not the offense- it's the people running it that need to be better.

With Stands- we just passed it around the perimeter and took a lot of 3-balls late in the shot clock because of our lack of movement vs zone. It wasn't unusual for a Stands team to shoot 28-30 3's vs a team that zoned them a lot

Ray's guys got the ball inside last nite to Ware- which was the intent. Ware just wasn't good enough to finish the play. And it happened twice in a row at a crucial point in the game unfortunately. But we got the shot the offense itself intended to get

First time poster but long time reader. A conversation I had with Coach Richard Williams before the season started, on the state of MSU basketball and Coach Ray. He stated that he hopes it works but the issues Coach Ray are facing are tough. First thing he came into a fire storm. This has been gone over 1000 times no need to validate. Second he stated that Coach Ray is trying to bring Big 10 and Big East ball down south. That means more screens, picks, and toughness. What concerned the Coach is the fact that he doesn't have the players to run this type of basketball and furthermore the kids he will be recruiting in the south don't play this type of ball. They are all athletes, thin and lanky. Coach doesn't believe the recruits down south want to play in this type of system because they aren't (A) built that way and (B) aren't running up and down letting their ability take over the game. The other issue Coach mentioned was that Ray is a strict disciplinarian. Coach Williams mentioned how all the kids today smoke the weed not just drink like most kids did 20 years ago. None of them can pass a test. If you don't think this effects recruits then you are kidding yourself. Coach thinks Ray is a great Coach with a lot of variables and if they all line up MSU basketball will be great again. Now this was before season started and his views could have changed. Flame away and bash the first post. By the way WillClarkfan has to be a rebel

[dawgs]

Then Ray should've spent the last 3 years recruiting the hell out of players from the Midwest and northeast that grew up playing his style.

The problem with saying we don't have the players is that it doesn't even look like we are attempting to play the style of offense you are describing and failing, we aren't showing any signs of playing any style of offense.

[Liverpooldawg]

First time poster but long time reader. A conversation I had with Coach Richard Williams before the season started, on the state of MSU basketball and Coach Ray. He stated that he hopes it works but the issues Coach Ray are facing are tough. First thing he came into a fire storm. This has been gone over 1000 times no need to validate. Second he stated that Coach Ray is trying to bring Big 10 and Big East ball down south. That means more screens, picks, and toughness. What concerned the Coach is the fact that he doesn't have the players to run this type of basketball and furthermore the kids he will be recruiting in the south don't play this type of ball. They are all athletes, thin and lanky. Coach doesn't believe the recruits down south want to play in this type of system because they aren't (A) built that way and (B) aren't running up and down letting their ability take over the game. The other issue Coach mentioned was that Ray is a strict disciplinarian. Coach Williams mentioned how all the kids today smoke the weed not just drink like most kids did 20 years ago. None of them can pass a test. If you don't think this effects recruits then you are kidding yourself. Coach thinks Ray is a great Coach with a lot of variables and if they all line up MSU basketball will be great again. Now this was before season started and his views could have changed. Flame away and bash the first post. By the way WillClarkfan has to be a rebel

What are screens and picks? I haven't seen us even attempt one in a LONG time. That sounds a lot more like what we did under Richard than it does what we are doing now.

[Dawg61]

Can we please stop comparing WBB to MBB. The ladies play with a smaller ball. It is much easier to handle and shoot. Sorry just a pet peeve of mine.

[Tbonewannabe]

Can we please stop comparing WBB to MBB. The ladies play with a smaller ball. It is much easier to handle and shoot. Sorry just a pet peeve of mine.

So larger men's hands wouldn't make up the difference?

[Dawg61]

So larger men's hands wouldn't make up the difference?

To a certain point and then too large of hands actually make shooting and handling more difficult.

[DudyDawg]

So larger men's hands wouldn't make up the difference?

The rim is the same size

[Coach34]

Dude. We just got passed by Indiana Purdue University Fort Wayne in KenPom. It's everything, and Ray is responsible for everything. You sound like Freeze.

I was simply arguing that one point. If we fired him today I'd be fine with it

[MadDawg]

The rim is the same size

Which in some cases makes layups more difficult for the ladies.

[Dawg61]

Which in some cases makes layups more difficult for the ladies.

Smaller ball going into the same size circumference is always easier from any distance. Kinda like your dick compared to mine with any ***** anywhere.

[tcdog70]

Why does anyone think we run an offense? It has been said that 90% of our practices goes to defense. He promised this year would defend 95 feet of the Court. I heard Him when he said play defense the offense will fix itself. Basketball is simple -you have to make more baskets than who you are playing. If you are playing offense by osmosis your ass will lose.

[Tbonewannabe]

To a certain point and then too large of hands actually make shooting and handling more difficult.

Being able to palm a basketball helps control the ball. I would say almost all guys can and most girls cannot. All I was referring to is passing and handling the ball. We look lackadaisical when doing both. We defend pretty good which shows he can get the effort but we don't seem to be getting better at anything else.

[Dawg61]

All I was referring to is passing and handling the ball. We look lackadaisical when doing both. We defend pretty good which shows he can get the effort but we don't seem to be getting better at anything else.

Could not agree more. We are a putrid "skilled" team (passing, shooting, dribbling).

[maroonmania]

First time poster but long time reader. A conversation I had with Coach Richard Williams before the season started, on the state of MSU basketball and Coach Ray. He stated that he hopes it works but the issues Coach Ray are facing are tough. First thing he came into a fire storm. This has been gone over 1000 times no need to validate. Second he stated that Coach Ray is trying to bring Big 10 and Big East ball down south. That means more screens, picks, and toughness. What concerned the Coach is the fact that he doesn't have the players to run this type of basketball and furthermore the kids he will be recruiting in the south don't play this type of ball. They are all athletes, thin and lanky. Coach doesn't believe the recruits down south want to play in this type of system because they aren't (A) built that way and (B) aren't running up and down letting their ability take over the game. The other issue Coach mentioned was that Ray is a strict disciplinarian. Coach Williams mentioned how all the kids today smoke the weed not just drink like most kids did 20 years ago. None of them can pass a test. If you don't think this effects recruits then you are kidding yourself. Coach thinks Ray is a great Coach with a lot of variables and if they all line up MSU basketball will be great again. Now this was before season started and his views could have changed. Flame away and bash the first post. By the way WillClarkfan has to be a rebel

To me all this is just noise. A good coach gets in a situation, evaluates the situation, and works a plan that will let him succeed in that situation. If he doesn't he's not a good coach and is just trying to put a square peg in a round hole. That was Croom's problem, he only knew one way to coach and couldn't make it work here nor could he adjust once it was obvious it wasn't going to work to do anything else, therefore, he was not a good head coach. If Ray can't adapt to winning with players from the South, no matter the reason, we need to move on. Heck, Mullen is a Northeastern Yankee that has adapted to recruiting and coaching in MS and succeeded simply because he is a good coach. I've lost faith in Ray this season that he will ever be successful here. I was onboard but this year was the decision maker for me because he has a veteran team that still can't win. Yes, you can sort of live with some unexpected pre-SEC losses due to injuries but our SEC record isn't going to be much better either even though he has four guys that have started or played significantly for Ray for 3 years now and a PG in his second year. That is enough to have shown much more improvement than we have. He will have to win me back next year I guess but for now he's lost me in thinking he is a long term answer.

[Tbonewannabe]

To me all this is just noise. A good coach gets in a situation, evaluates the situation, and works a plan that will let him succeed in that situation. If he doesn't he's not a good coach and is just trying to put a square peg in a round hole. That was Croom's problem, he only knew one way to coach and couldn't make it work here nor could he adjust once it was obvious it wasn't going to work to do anything else, therefore, he was not a good head coach. If Ray can't adapt to winning with players from the South, no matter the reason, we need to move on. Heck, Mullen is a Northeastern Yankee that has adapted to recruiting and coaching in MS and succeeded simply because he is a good coach. I've lost faith in Ray this season that he will ever be successful here. I was onboard but this year was the decision maker for me because he has a veteran team that still can't win. Yes, you can sort of live with some unexpected pre-SEC losses due to injuries but our SEC record isn't going to be much better either even though he has four guys that have started or played significantly for Ray for 3 years now and a PG in his second year. That is enough to have shown much more improvement than we have. He will have to win me back next year I guess but for now he's lost me in thinking he is a long term answer.

I am exactly in the same boat. I thought this year as long as we didn't have crazy injuries that we would be at least in the running for the NIT and next year with a lot of experience have a chance at the dance. Now I think to even get into the CBI, we need some of the incoming freshmen and Zuppardo to be a lot better than what we have now. Ray gets effort but I don't know if his offensive coaching is going to translate to the type of players he is getting. I believe Croom is a perfect example of using what you have completely incorrectly. Whether it is the players running the offense correctly or the coaching, after 3 years it all comes back to Ray. 3 years is a long time in basketball.