So what do we do about men's basketball?

[Liverpooldawg]

I'm bad about it myself but let's try not to turn this into another coach vs coach thing. Pretend that nothing that happened prior to Ray's arrival happened. Just keep it to comments on the current state of the program. My take all season has been that we need to have a winning record overall to not make a change. Three straight losing seasons just isn't acceptable in a major conference in basketball. Since we would basically have to win out including the SEC tourney to get to .500 you know what my view is. The team plays hard. They sometimes play not great but acceptable defense. The offense is as bad as I have ever seen all the way around in every phase. I can't think of one facet of it that is even middling. There is no doubt that there has been some improvement this year but that is a relative term. The bottom line is we are still after three years a really bad team. I see little sign that it will improve enough next year to get to .500 then either. That's my honest opinion. Fire away.

[TheRef]

My honest assessment of this team is that we have the potential, but the coaching is actually holding us back. Now how extreme of a coaching change do we need in order to get full advantage of the potential on this team? That remains to be seen. Both sides seem to have sparks of brilliance, then return to mediocrity the next game. So I think it's time for a change at the end of the season.

[thedawg]

I think Ray will get another year no matter what we think.. I am growing in my opinion that we are prolonging the inevitable... I hope we make a better hire in 13 months

[shoeless joe]

I think we need to pull the plug this year. I don't think it will happen but if we want to be consistently competitive within the conference any time soon it needs to happen this year.

We are a poorly coached team. Decent defensively but horrendous on the offensive end. And in listening to ray discuss the offense I don't see any of that changing.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Ray will be back next year. Now what does he need to show next year to continue I can't answer that. Should we be better with as about a veteran of a team as you can have? Yes. How much better can we be considering these guys pretty much are what they are now? Remains to be seen. Should we make the NIT minimum yes but I felt like we would do that this year so who knows. This team isn't horrible like some think they just haven't gotten any smarter in their time on campus & that ultimately falls on the head coach. If I'm Ray & next year may be my last I'm going out blazing with pressing, traps, as uptempo as we can go. It's proven that the half court offense isn't our friend so we need to try to get as many easy buckets as possible. Get out & push the ball with Ready, Sword, Tookie, & tell Black, Houston, & Weatherspoon get on the wing & run. Tell Daniel, Dunlap, & Fred take nothing but 3's. Any 1 of you dribble more than 3x in halfcourt your're coming out. Gavin & Zuppardo you're always the trail man be ready for the jumper at the top of the key. Ndoye play defense & be the best screen setter you can be. Will this lead to more wins maybe maybe not but the offense needs a complete overhaul so we may as well play as fast as possible. Can't have any more turnovers than we make now & at least we can say we made them pushing the tempo.

[coastdoglover]

Pull the Plug and then go ahead and take some of the SEC money and go out and hire a name coach who can unify the fan base. Waiting a year just delays the inevitable.

[Goat from MSU]

Plus one on your comments. Ray acts like he going to be here 20 years .Does he not know half the fan base does not like him?
Ray will be back next year. Now what does he need to show next year to continue I can't answer that. Should we be better with as about a veteran of a team as you can have? Yes. How much better can we be considering these guys pretty much are what they are now? Remains to be seen. Should we make the NIT minimum yes but I felt like we would do that this year so who knows. This team isn't horrible like some think they just haven't gotten any smarter in their time on campus & that ultimately falls on the head coach. If I'm Ray & next year may be my last I'm going out blazing with pressing, traps, as uptempo as we can go. It's proven that the half court offense isn't our friend so we need to try to get as many easy buckets as possible. Get out & push the ball with Ready, Sword, Tookie, & tell Black, Houston, & Weatherspoon get on the wing & run. Tell Daniel, Dunlap, & Fred take nothing but 3's. Any 1 of you dribble more than 3x in halfcourt your're coming out. Gavin & Zuppardo you're always the trail man be ready for the jumper at the top of the key. Ndoye play defense & be the best screen setter you can be. Will this lead to more wins maybe maybe not but the offense needs a complete overhaul so we may as well play as fast as possible. Can't have any more turnovers than we make now & at least we can say we made them pushing the tempo.

[smootness]

Plus one on your comments. Ray acts like he going to be here 20 years .Does he not know half the fan base does not like him?

What?

What do you expect him to do? Cry himself to sleep on the bench?

[HancockCountyDog]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/sc4087/Notthisagain.jpg

[MaxedOutMaroon]

My opinion is we have to make changes at the assistant coach positions, and my choices would be Brooks, Hollander, and maybe even Atkins. We need a better big man coaches and player development coaches. Keep Flanigan and Gordon.

My biggest problem with Ray is he has not proven to be a good boss/manager. He did not make good initial hires and does not seem to have the guts to fire anybody.

[Coach34]

There's nothing to be done with men's basketball. Ray is going to be here another year and his recruiting is getting better. We have 2 freshman that will be in our top 8 for playing time.

Next year something good needs to happen on the court

[bluelightstar]

There's nothing to be done with men's basketball. Ray is going to be here another year and his recruiting is getting better. We have 2 freshman that will be in our top 8 for playing time.

Next year ear something good needs to happen on the court

You don't have a losing record 3 straight years, look at that, and determine that "[t]here's nothing to be done."

[DCdawg]

I'm undecided about what I think needs to be done at this point. The only thing I know for sure after last time is that there needs to be a coach already lined up before anything is done - preferably one the fan base fan be excited about.

[quickstrike2]

We are only in year 3 of the 10 year plan. Nothing to see here.

[tcdog70]

PLAY DEFENSE--"The Offense will fix itself"*****

[smootness]

My opinion is we have to make changes at the assistant coach positions, and my choices would be Brooks, Hollander, and maybe even Atkins. We need a better big man coaches and player development coaches. Keep Flanigan and Gordon.

My biggest problem with Ray is he has not proven to be a good boss/manager. He did not make good initial hires and does not seem to have the guts to fire anybody.

We don't really have any idea how good the assistant coaches are.

[K9 Avenger]

I'm not sure you can fire Ray after only three years. During the last coaching search, the perception among those in the coaching community was that our program was a colossal dumpster fire and nobody that was proven wanted to get anywhere near it. The fact of the matter is, the perception of our program from those on the outside has to be that Rick Ray was given every opportunity to succeed and he just wasn't the man for the job. If folks believe he wasn't given that opportunity then no one is going to want the job this time either. I don't care how much money you offer a coach, he's not going to come if he doesn't have a reasonable expectation of support and success.

[gtowndawg]

anymore.

[Political Hack]

next year when we challenge for an NiT spot everyone will cite the progress and say he needs another year to realize his potential. "new recruits" "getting better" etc...

Bottom line is this: Rick Ray will never win big at Miss State. Same issue I had with another coach that I won't name for sake of hopefully saving this thread's short existence from becoming an unreadable chit storm. We do not recruit well enough. We do not have the right personnel combos. We can't coach offense. our upperclassmen are not noticeably better than they were as freshmen, therefore there's no evidence we're developing players.

We are marred in some strange stagnant state of almost being mediocre and for some reason the same fans that blasted winning seasons as unacceptable are now suggesting that almost winning is ok... and will be ok for the foreseeable future. It's not. This is big boy basketball. Win now or go away. And let me say this, if we can't eek out a winning season with the craptastic OOC schedule we had this year along with the weakest SEC I can remember in recent memory, it's highly unlikely to change with the addition of a few more good players. Our win total may be more than our loss total next year, but mediocrity isn't the goal... at least not for some of us.

[smootness]

Roquez Johnson and Craig Sword are both much better than they were when they showed up. I agree that Ware and Thomas haven't really progressed like might have been expected, but Ware has shown flashes; he just can't seem to put it all together.

It's also a bit strange that you talk about 'new recruits' as if it's some dumb excuse and then cite not recruiting well enough and not having the right personnel combos as big negatives.

We are recruiting much better now; that is simply a fact. Will these new recruits take us to where we want to be? I have no idea and won't until we see them on the court. But they are definitely much better and are absolutely good enough, in terms of rankings, to think they can be successful. I've said it before, but the 2015 and 2016 classes are shaping up to be Stans-like classes.

[Political Hack]

Will these new recruits take us to where we want to be? I have no idea and won't until we see them on the court.

I do know. They won't. Outside of Zuppardo, I don't see anyone else contributing in a major way next season... and without scoring, we still won't be much better than we are now.

Sword is averaging less per game right now than he did is a freshman or a sophmore... how is that better???

[Offshore Dawg]

"we" don't do shit. Somebody is getting paid much coin to solve this situation.

[shannondawg]

I wrote Scott this morning and told him my feeling about this program. I felt better about letting him know how I felt than expressing my views on this message board. He can do something about it, you can't, no matter how many posts you make, pro or con.

[Goat from MSU]

No I don't. I just do not see him as getting the job done ,we should cut our losses now .Ray will be here next year and the year after that and we be further behind Ole Miss.
What?

What do you expect him to do? Cry himself to sleep on the bench?

[Goat from MSU]

I know who you are and he will listen to you .Coach thinks he has the inside sources ,he has nothing on you.The last thing Coach wants is for a few more people like you who have the means to do something to start bitching about this .
I wrote Scott this morning and told him my feeling about this program. I felt better about letting him know how I felt than expressing my views on this message board. He can do something about it, you can't, no matter how many posts you make, pro or con.

[RougeDawg]

I'm not sure you can fire Ray after only three years. During the last coaching search, the perception among those in the coaching community was that our program was a colossal dumpster fire and nobody that was proven wanted to get anywhere near it. The fact of the matter is, the perception of our program from those on the outside has to be that Rick Ray was given every opportunity to succeed and he just wasn't the man for the job. If folks believe he wasn't given that opportunity then no one is going to want the job this time either. I don't care how much money you offer a coach, he's not going to come if he doesn't have a reasonable expectation of support and success.

Umm, no one wanted the job why? Money talks and Strick didn't want to pay. We are getting what we paid for. Nothing.

[State82]

I'll tell you what we ARE going to do about it. Sit back and watch it. Or watch something else because nothing here changes for the next 13 months at least. You can agree with it or not, but those are your two options --- watch it or don't watch it for the rest of this season and all of next season. I don't have an opinion on the coach situation because I lost interest several years ago. I will defer to you guys in 13 months.

[Goat from MSU]

That was one of the reasons we did not get a good coach ,we were trying to save money and it bit us in the ass.
Umm, no one wanted the job why? Money talks and Strick didn't want to pay. We are getting what we paid for. Nothing.

[RougeDawg]

I wrote Scott this morning and told him my feeling about this program. I felt better about letting him know how I felt than expressing my views on this message board. He can do something about it, you can't, no matter how many posts you make, pro or con.

If Strick can't look around the stands during home games or look at ticket sales, and needs people emailing him to see how disgusted everyone aside from the 2.5% C34 types, his ass needs to pack his bags also.

[sandwolf]

I'm not sure you can fire Ray after only three years. During the last coaching search, the perception among those in the coaching community was that our program was a colossal dumpster fire and nobody that was proven wanted to get anywhere near it. The fact of the matter is, the perception of our program from those on the outside has to be that Rick Ray was given every opportunity to succeed and he just wasn't the man for the job. If folks believe he wasn't given that opportunity then no one is going to want the job this time either. I don't care how much money you offer a coach, he's not going to come if he doesn't have a reasonable expectation of support and success.

These are my thoughts as well. I think that we have to show that we are willing to give a coach an ample amount of time to build the program, in order for a desirable coach to consider coming here.

[Dawgface]

My guess is we will win just enough to get in the NIT. Probably 18-19 games which will give him another year after that. Then the following year the team will add one more win to the total which will get us another NIT invite. RR earns another year. You see where I'm going with this. Then we level off as with our previous coach but we continue to extend RR contract because he does get the team to play hard and they stay out of trouble. That will probably be enough to make many happy.

[Coach34]

You don't have a losing record 3 straight years, look at that, and determine that "[t]here's nothing to be done."

We blew up the program- year 1 was a throw away

And to put it another way-nothing is going to be done before next year

[Coach34]

I know who you are and he will listen to you .Coach thinks he has the inside sources ,he has nothing on you.The last thing Coach wants is for a few more people like you who have the means to do something to start bitching about this .

Shannondawg has been closer to the program than I ever will- doesnt mean I dont know what I'm talking about. I'm glad he wrote Strick and hope he will share the response he gets. I'm betting that its going to be Ray gets another season to prove he is the guy for us

[dawgs]

I'm not sure you can fire Ray after only three years. During the last coaching search, the perception among those in the coaching community was that our program was a colossal dumpster fire and nobody that was proven wanted to get anywhere near it. The fact of the matter is, the perception of our program from those on the outside has to be that Rick Ray was given every opportunity to succeed and he just wasn't the man for the job. If folks believe he wasn't given that opportunity then no one is going to want the job this time either. I don't care how much money you offer a coach, he's not going to come if he doesn't have a reasonable expectation of support and success.

Shut the **** up. No coach in America can take a P5 job and have 3 losing seasons and expect to return, unless you have some very very special circumstances, like baylor where there was a MURDER and ncaa investigation hanging over the program for the first 3 years and resulted in no non-conf games in year 3. AND STILL BY YEAR 5 DREW HAD THEM IN THE TOURNEY, and they've been a consistent tourney team ever since.

[Goat from MSU]

Why don't you get off this shit about a throw away year .The record books will show us 10 and 22 overall and 4 and 14 in SEC play with a loss to a SWAC team. What we blew was the hire.
We blew up the program- year 1 was a throw away

And to put it another way-nothing is going to be done before next year

[JohnnyQuid]

I'll tell you what we ARE going to do about it. Sit back and watch it. Or watch something else because nothing here changes for the next 13 months at least. You can agree with it or not, but those are your two options --- watch it or don't watch it for the rest of this season and all of next season. I don't have an opinion on the coach situation because I lost interest several years ago. I will defer to you guys in 13 months.

This is pretty much it. We have at least another year of the current regime , like it or not. I've lost most interest in basketball and that's sad considering how many games are on TV now - used to never miss a game even on radio it was a priority. I catch a half here and there lately but it's mostly bad, boring as hell basketball and when not playing for anything it becomes that much more monotonous. Glad baseball season is here and unless our play drastically changes next year will prolly just tune out on basketball that much more.

[dawgs]

Roquez Johnson and Craig Sword are both much better than they were when they showed up. I agree that Ware and Thomas haven't really progressed like might have been expected, but Ware has shown flashes; he just can't seem to put it all together.

It's also a bit strange that you talk about 'new recruits' as if it's some dumb excuse and then cite not recruiting well enough and not having the right personnel combos as big negatives.

We are recruiting much better now; that is simply a fact. Will these new recruits take us to where we want to be? I have no idea and won't until we see them on the court. But they are definitely much better and are absolutely good enough, in terms of rankings, to think they can be successful. I've said it before, but the 2015 and 2016 classes are shaping up to be Stans-like classes.

Well our 2015 class is a borderline top 50 class, which means it's our best since sword/ware/Thomas, but it's not great. Sure it's "much better" but it couldn't be much worse than ray'd previous couple of classes. For comparison's sake, pearl has a borderline top 10 class for 2015 at auburn.

[Goat from MSU]

I just mad this could have been prevented if we would have shelled out 2.5 to 3 million dollars and got someone . You are right Ray will get another year . But it could have been prevented all this with the right hire.
Shannondawg has been closer to the program than I ever will- doesnt mean I dont know what I'm talking about. I'm glad he wrote Strick and hope he will share the response he gets. I'm betting that its going to be Ray gets another season to prove he is the guy for us

[SouthMsDawg]

Im to the point I care less about Mississippi State basketball that I ever have in my life. Im in my 30's and essentially from my earliest memories of the early 90's teams with Tony Watts, Cameron Burns, Greg Carter, through our sweet 16 and Final 4 run, along with Washington, Hyche and Horatio, through the Stans era all I have known is competitive winning basketball teams. The past 3 years have made me not even want to watch MSU basketball except for the 5-6 week stretch from the end of football season to the start of baseball season. Then, as with most of you guys get fustrated from poor play in the SEC where Rick Ray has BOMBED.

Im not saying to fire Rick Ray, but I just dont feel he's the answer.

Coach34 keeps pumping that things are going to get better, and some have been patient but we are on the verge of another losing season and have lost more winnable games this year than either of the first 2 years under Ray.

[Homedawg]

I just mad this could have been prevented if we would have shelled out 2.5 to 3 million dollars and got someone . You are right Ray will get another year . But it could have been prevented all this with the right hire.

Who? Name a person that wanted it and was in that price range and would take the job?!?! We've been here before, others were wanted for this job and wanted nothing to do w it, at higher a higher price tag too!

[smootness]

I do know. They won't.

Haha ok. I guess I can at least disregard you in the discussion now.

[smootness]

Well our 2015 class is a borderline top 50 class, which means it's our best since sword/ware/Thomas, but it's not great. Sure it's "much better" but it couldn't be much worse than ray'd previous couple of classes. For comparison's sake, pearl has a borderline top 10 class for 2015 at auburn.

Of course Pearl is going to recruit well.

The bottom line is, it's an average Stans-type class.

[smootness]

Shut the **** up.

I'm just glad we can have reasonable, measured discussion on the topic.

[dawgs]

I'm just glad we can have reasonable, measured discussion on the topic.

I'm just glad you can take a comment out of context instead of addressing the point being made.

I'm just ****ing furious that we've let our program get here and that we have an admin willing to stay the course and have "supporters" that are willing to let us bury ourselves a little bit more before they wake up and call for a change. Stans had to go, and now ray has to go.

[Liverpooldawg]

Please leave Stans out of this one. Read the original post.

[codeDawg]

The only thing I get out of being told he's coming back "no matter what" is a greater sense that our leadership is more concerned about their own political reality than in winning games.

[Coach007]

I'm bad about it myself but let's try not to turn this into another coach vs coach thing. Pretend that nothing that happened prior to Ray's arrival happened. Just keep it to comments on the current state of the program. My take all season has been that we need to have a winning record overall to not make a change. Three straight losing seasons just isn't acceptable in a major conference in basketball. Since we would basically have to win out including the SEC tourney to get to .500 you know what my view is. The team plays hard. They sometimes play not great but acceptable defense. The offense is as bad as I have ever seen all the way around in every phase. I can't think of one facet of it that is even middling. There is no doubt that there has been some improvement this year but that is a relative term. The bottom line is we are still after three years a really bad team. I see little sign that it will improve enough next year to get to .500 then either. That's my honest opinion. Fire away.


You go buy a coach! You throw money at the program.

Who do you get? You look at the past 3 years of march madness.... and you find a program that has bettered itself. You evaluate film to see if the technique of the team has improved. You look at the recruiting. Look at the pay and if we can top it. If there is something lacking in any of those.. move down the list.

Once your list is finished, pick up the phone and start calling.

[dawgs]

Please leave Stans out of this one. Read the original post.

I just don't want anyone calling me a Stans backer because I can tell ray isn't the answer. I'm not bringing him in to say "it was better when" or anything like that.

[msstate7]

I do know. They won't. Outside of Zuppardo, I don't see anyone else contributing in a major way next season... and without scoring, we still won't be much better than we are now.

Sword is averaging less per game right now than he did is a freshman or a sophmore... how is that better???

Sword is avg less points bc he was playing before he was healthy. Since he's been healthy, he's been scoring fine.

I don't know if weatherspoon will contribute much next season or not, but he's the highest rated recruit we've gotten since hood.

[Political Hack]

Sword is avg less points bc he was playing before he was healthy. Since he's been healthy, he's been scoring fine.

I don't know if weatherspoon will contribute much next season or not, but he's the highest rated recruit we've gotten since hood.

He'll certainly help spread the floor and help in transition, but he's not going to be a transformative type player in year one. That's asking way too much of him IMO.

[thf24]

Sword is averaging less per game right now than he did is a freshman or a sophmore... how is that better???

He wasn't full speed for the first half of the year. He's averaging 14 ppg in conference play and shooting a (when considering where he started) respectable 32% from 3 on the year, (35% in conference play). He has undoubtedly improved. Ware has added the 15-footer and Thomas has improved marginally as well, finally shooting respectably from 3 (34%) for the unskilled wing that he is. I think there could have been more improvement (particularly Thomas) and I wouldn't be upset if Ray doesn't get another year, but for the sake of an intellectually honest argument, let's not pretend the upperclassmen haven't improved.

[Liverpooldawg]

I just don't want anyone calling me a Stans backer because I can tell ray isn't the answer. I'm not bringing him in to say "it was better when" or anything like that.

Please read the original post and leave Stans out of this thread. Just address the state of the program as it is now.

[Dog316]

I'm not sure you can fire Ray after only three years. During the last coaching search, the perception among those in the coaching community was that our program was a colossal dumpster fire and nobody that was proven wanted to get anywhere near it. The fact of the matter is, the perception of our program from those on the outside has to be that Rick Ray was given every opportunity to succeed and he just wasn't the man for the job. If folks believe he wasn't given that opportunity then no one is going to want the job this time either. I don't care how much money you offer a coach, he's not going to come if he doesn't have a reasonable expectation of support and success.

-----------

I think Coach Ray needs at least 10 years. (Read on Six Pack earlier that it might take 20 years, so don't complain about my time frame. I've cut the time down by 50%). "Dumpster fires" are difficult to extinguish. Require hook and ladder trucks, several pampers and thousands od firemen just to get it beat back

Our program had had so many losing seasons in a row that the job looked hopeless. With the fire and all Scott had his work cut out.

[Coach34]

Why don't you get off this shit about a throw away year .The record books will show us 10 and 22 overall and 4 and 14 in SEC play with a loss to a SWAC team. What we blew was the hire.

Im repeating the stance of our Admin

[Political Hack]

He wasn't full speed for the first half of the year. He's averaging 14 ppg in conference play and shooting a (when considering where he started) respectable 32% from 3 on the year, (35% in conference play). He has undoubtedly improved. Ware has added the 15-footer and Thomas has improved marginally as well, finally shooting respectably from 3 (34%) for the unskilled wing that he is. I think there could have been more improvement (particularly Thomas) and I wouldn't be upset if Ray doesn't get another year, but for the sake of an intellectually honest argument, let's not pretend the upperclassmen haven't improved.

I don't watch anymore. maybe they have. they didn't look any better to me at the beginning of the year and the numbers on Sword back it up. I can pick and choose numbers to support my argument or I can use the whole season, which would seemingly be less biased than saying over "X" number of games he was better and those "Y" game don't count.

Not to be a total ass, but I can probably ID basketball as well or better than anyone who's not a college level coach. I've played with the best, against the best, and recognize the difference between average and great. Ware and Sword aren't better players than they were two years ago. The lack of consistency you point to under the guise of "injured" is just more proof of that.

[Coach34]

I just mad this could have been prevented if we would have shelled out 2.5 to 3 million dollars and got someone . You are right Ray will get another year . But it could have been prevented all this with the right hire.

Shaka said it take $3MM+ for him to even consider it.

At at no point and time were we ever going to pay over 2MM

[thf24]

I don't watch anymore. maybe they have. they didn't look any better to me at the beginning of the year and the numbers on Sword back it up. I can pick and choose numbers to support my argument or I can use the whole season, which would seemingly be less biased than saying over "X" number of games he was better and those "Y" game don't count.

Not to be a total ass, but I can probably ID basketball as well or better than anyone who's not a college level coach. I've played with the best, against the best, and recognize the difference between average and great. Ware and Sword aren't better players than they were two years ago. The lack of consistency you point to under the guise of "injured" is just more proof of that.

I'm not going to argue too hard because I really do respect your basketball knowledge based on your posts on here, and like I said, I'm not satisfied with the mostly marginal improvement the three juniors have, in my opinion, made. Just tell me this: what do you call Sword's increase in 3pt% from 19% as a freshman, 27% as a sophomore, to 32% as a junior, if not improvement?

[Goat from MSU]

Coach: I got questions for you. Was Ray promised 4 years? Who was in the running besides Ray and Payne in the end? And if you had to hired someone today who would it be.
Shaka said it take $3MM+ for him to even consider it.

At at no point and time were we ever going to pay over 2MM

[Political Hack]

I'm not going to argue too hard because I really do respect your basketball knowledge based on your posts on here, and like I said, I'm not satisfied with the mostly marginal improvement the three juniors have, in my opinion, made. Just tell me this: what do you call Sword's increase in 3pt% from 19% as a freshman, 27% as a sophomore, to 32% as a junior, if not improvement?

that's fair. He has improved there and that was a huge hurdle for him. My main problem is that we're trying to ask him to be more than he is and whether he has improved at shooting the three or not, that's still not 2-man numbers. If you can't shoot high 30's at least you shouldn't be a 2 IMO.

When I was looking at him though, it's about his ability to be a complete scorer. his PPG are down and his overall shooting is worse than last season... likely because he's jacking up more threes.

[K9 Avenger]

-----------

I think Coach Ray needs at least 10 years. (Read on Six Pack earlier that it might take 20 years, so don't complain about my time frame. I've cut the time down by 50%). "Dumpster fires" are difficult to extinguish. Require hook and ladder trucks, several pampers and thousands od firemen just to get it beat back

Our program had had so many losing seasons in a row that the job looked hopeless. With the fire and all Scott had his work cut out.

I understand the frustration....I'm frustrated too. That doesn't change the fact that NOBODY proven wanted anything to do with this job when Ray was hired...at least none of the coaches whose interest we gauged. All I'm saying is we better handle any future changes with real discretion or we'll take a circular trip to right back where we started. And if you refuse to see that Stans left the toilet full and refused to flush then your memory is not very clear.

[C222]

Coach: I got questions for you. Was Ray promised 4 years? Who was in the running besides Ray and Payne in the end? And if you had to hired someone today who would it be.

I can tell you what I know - We offered to a few people: Prohm, Drew, Rob Jeter. All turned it down. It is also my understanding Payne and Joe Dooley would have taken the job if offered.

To me... Payne, Dooley, Ray are no different. Maybe Payne would've gotten better players because of his Nike connections but who knows.

[Coach34]

Coach: I got questions for you. Was Ray promised 4 years? Who was in the running besides Ray and Payne in the end? And if you had to hired someone today who would it be.

We offered Prohm the job not once- but twice- 2nd time something just short $2MM
We called Shaka and got the $3MM-plus to even consider the job answer
We called Greg Marshall at Wichita and he was interested at first then called back the same day and said "no thanks"
We talked to Drew about the job and he decided against making the move.
We also had some back door talks with Davis and a couple others.
Then at last the two were Payne and Ray- alot of people thought it was going to be Payne- including Payne himself- and then that morning Ray is announced.

The sticking point was the Sidney-stench Dumpster-Fire that had engulfed the program and rumors of the NCAA poking around about it. Yes, the NCAA had investigated Sidney and cleared him- but in coaching circles the rumor was the NCAA was going to look into his recruitment from our end. Also the depleted roster and basically having to start over with a bunch of Freshman. All that- and a salary that less than $2MM was something alot of coaches decided to pass on.

[Coach34]

I'm not going to argue too hard because I really do respect your basketball knowledge based on your posts on here, and like I said, I'm not satisfied with the mostly marginal improvement the three juniors have, in my opinion, made. Just tell me this: what do you call Sword's increase in 3pt% from 19% as a freshman, 27% as a sophomore, to 32% as a junior, if not improvement?

Hack is just being Hack. He knows full well Sword had back surgery and has been a different player since getting healthy. His SEC numbers are very good and the announcers were talking Saturday about how he should be 2nd or 3rd team All-SEC.

Fred shot 23.8% from 3 as a Freshman- now shooting 34%

Ware averaged 6 and 4 as a Freshman...now is a 10 and 7 guy...he also has gone from shooting 56% at the FT line to 75% this year

[SouthMsDawg]

Hack is just being Hack. He knows full well Sword had back surgery and has been a different player since getting healthy. His SEC numbers are very good and the announcers were talking Saturday about how he should be 2nd or 3rd team All-SEC.

Fred shot 23.8% from 3 as a Freshman- now shooting 34%

Ware averaged 6 and 4 as a Freshman...now is a 10 and 7 guy...he also has gone from shooting 56% at the FT line to 75% this year

Yet here we sit at 12-17 with 2 games left to play.

[Liverpooldawg]

As I said, I'm bad about it but can we PLEASE leave the previous coach out of this thread. Where are we now? What do we do NOW, not three years ago.

[Coach34]

Yet here we sit at 12-17 with 2 games left to play.

The injuries to IJ and Sword cost us 4 wins in December- this team should be 16-13 right now.

We have let some games get away in SEC play for sure and nobody is happy about that. But the improvement is there. Is it enough? Thats for each person to decide. Total rebuilds take some time. Ray is not Bruce Pearl- so dont compare him to Pearl. We arent going to get THAT guy to Sville. Everywhere else when you have a depleted roster- it takes most coaches time to get things going.

I want the recruiting to continue to get better and a transfer that can shoot the rock.

[Coach34]

As I said, I'm bad about it but can we PLEASE leave the previous coach out of this thread. Where are we now? What do we do NOW, not three years ago.

This really doesnt make sense- we arent going to do anything. There isnt a rumor from anywhere that we are even considering a coaching change.

[dawgs]

Please read the original post and leave Stans out of this thread. Just address the state of the program as it is now.

We need a new coach and we need an AD that will sell the program to potential coaches and walk in the room with a big dick. Not an AD that will go in with an "aw schucks" attitude and offer below market value with incentives like we don't have the money.

[dawgs]

Shaka said it take $3MM+ for him to even consider it.

At at no point and time were we ever going to pay over 2MM

Like I said, we need an AD to sell the program and show some confidence and spend the boatloads of money we are getting from the sec network. Strickland obviously was too timid in his approach in the previous coaching search. He went in offering marginal, at best, raises over what these guys could get at home and didn't sell them on the program at all. Smart probably told us it'd take $3M because we low balled him initially and only incrementally raised our offer after he shot us down.

[RougeDawg]

We SHOULD close the lid on the dumpster fire that it is, to cut off the flow of oxygen and then go hire any and every high school coach, manager and janitor it takes to sign Malik.

[Liverpooldawg]

This really doesnt make sense- we arent going to do anything. There isnt a rumor from anywhere that we are even considering a coaching change.

Well coach, that may be true but the fanbase has voted with it's butts, as in not putting them in seats. The Hump is a total embarrassment for men's games now. I would almost bet you it is being discussed, very quietly. It may not be done this year, but there is NO way it's not being discussed where it matters.

[Liverpooldawg]

Also coach, NOT doing something IS doing something. That's a choice we have to make.

[dawgs]

As I said, I'm bad about it but can we PLEASE leave the previous coach out of this thread. Where are we now? What do we do NOW, not three years ago.

Look sorry for mentioning his damn name. it's obviously I wasn't saying anything except it was time to make a change then, we ****ed up the hire, and instead of sticking with our ****ed up decision then, we should make a change now. That's not dragging him into the conversation and is directly pointing out what we need to do NOW.

His name can be mentioned without being pro/anti, it's just talking about the state of our program and some of us want it to be better than its been the past DECADE. Not just the past 3 years, but the past DECADE.

[C222]

Like I said, we need an AD to sell the program and show some confidence and spend the boatloads of money we are getting from the sec network. Strickland obviously was too timid in his approach in the previous coaching search. He went in offering marginal, at best, raises over what these guys could get at home and didn't sell them on the program at all. Smart probably told us it'd take $3M because we low balled him initially and only incrementally raised our offer after he shot us down.

We were never getting Shaka.

[smootness]

We need a new coach and we need an AD that will sell the program to potential coaches and walk in the room with a big dick. Not an AD that will go in with an "aw schucks" attitude and offer below market value with incentives like we don't have the money.

This is such a ridiculous characterization of Stricklin, and a lot of our fans for some reason seem to have this impression. I guess it's based on the way he talks? I have no idea.

But the guy obviously had the 'confidence' to show Stans the door despite a ton of people apparently thinking it was too soon for some reason. And he has mostly made great hires and great moves within the athletic department as a whole (baseball stadium, Adidas relationship).

He clearly has no problem going big, and he doesn't have a problem spending when it's warranted (Our football coach is now the 3rd-highest paid coach in the SEC, from the information I can gather).

But we're just not in a position to go throwing $3 million at a basketball coach unless we know it's a guy who's going to have success. We can afford to go there eventually if it makes sense for us. Mullen is doing incredible things with the football program, and has proven himself, so we're willing to pay what we have to. But if you throw $3 million at a basketball coach and it doesn't work out, you have set yourself back severely with a budget like State's.

Stricklin has been a pretty big success so far as an AD. Our athletic department as a whole is in phenomenal shape. He may have hired a basketball coach who proves not to be successful. That's literally the only knock at this point, and the problems with the program started way before he got rid of Stans.

This bashing of Stricklin from some within the fanbase is absurdly stupid and baseless.

[dawgs]

We were never getting Shaka.

It doesn't matter. Act like a big time program, and you might not get Shaka, but you move down the line to the next guy. Eventually if you are confident and act like you should hire a hot coach, you'll land one of those hot coaches - and i don't mean a guy with 1 flukey tourney run, I mean a guy that's built a consistent winner over several years. We instead skipped straight down to the "assistants you've never heard of who would take the sc-upstate HC job if it was offered, no questions asked".

[Liverpooldawg]

Look sorry for mentioning his damn name. it's obviously I wasn't saying anything except it was time to make a change then, we ****ed up the hire, and instead of sticking with our ****ed up decision then, we should make a change now. That's not dragging him into the conversation and is directly pointing out what we need to do NOW.

His name can be mentioned without being pro/anti, it's just talking about the state of our program and some of us want it to be better than its been the past DECADE. Not just the past 3 years, but the past DECADE.

Whatever dude. Read the original post. Almost everyone is abiding by the request.

[dawgs]

This is such a ridiculous characterization of Stricklin, and a lot of our fans for some reason seem to have this impression. I guess it's based on the way he talks? I have no idea.

But the guy obviously had the 'confidence' to show Stans the door despite a ton of people apparently thinking it was too soon for some reason. And he has mostly made great hires and great moves within the athletic department as a whole (baseball stadium, Adidas relationship).

He clearly has no problem going big, and he doesn't have a problem spending when it's warranted (Our football coach is now the 3rd-highest paid coach in the SEC, from the information I can gather).

But we're just not in a position to go throwing $3 million at a basketball coach unless we know it's a guy who's going to have success. We can afford to go there eventually if it makes sense for us. Mullen is doing incredible things with the football program, and has proven himself, so we're willing to pay what we have to. But if you throw $3 million at a basketball coach and it doesn't work out, you have set yourself back severely with a budget like State's.

Stricklin has been a pretty big success so far as an AD. Our athletic department as a whole is in phenomenal shape. He may have hired a basketball coach who proves not to be successful. That's literally the only knock at this point, and the problems with the program started way before he got rid of Stans.

This bashing of Stricklin from some within the fanbase is absurdly stupid and baseless.

A lot of the positives have occurred since the ray hire, so maybe stricklin has learned and grown, which imo is even more reason for him to make a move now. He is a better AD now and will make a better decision, be more persuasive with our top targets, etc.

[dawgs]

Whatever dude. Read the original post. Almost everyone is abiding by the request.



This is such a ridiculous characterization of Stricklin, and a lot of our fans for some reason seem to have this impression. I guess it's based on the way he talks? I have no idea.

But the guy obviously had the 'confidence' to show Stans the door despite a ton of people apparently thinking it was too soon for some reason. And he has mostly made great hires and great moves within the athletic department as a whole (baseball stadium, Adidas relationship).

He clearly has no problem going big, and he doesn't have a problem spending when it's warranted (Our football coach is now the 3rd-highest paid coach in the SEC, from the information I can gather).

But we're just not in a position to go throwing $3 million at a basketball coach unless we know it's a guy who's going to have success. We can afford to go there eventually if it makes sense for us. Mullen is doing incredible things with the football program, and has proven himself, so we're willing to pay what we have to. But if you throw $3 million at a basketball coach and it doesn't work out, you have set yourself back severely with a budget like State's.

Stricklin has been a pretty big success so far as an AD. Our athletic department as a whole is in phenomenal shape. He may have hired a basketball coach who proves not to be successful. That's literally the only knock at this point, and the problems with the program started way before he got rid of Stans.

This bashing of Stricklin from some within the fanbase is absurdly stupid and baseless.

Have at him.

[Liverpooldawg]

This is such a ridiculous characterization of Stricklin, and a lot of our fans for some reason seem to have this impression. I guess it's based on the way he talks? I have no idea.

But the guy obviously had the 'confidence' to show Stans the door despite a ton of people apparently thinking it was too soon for some reason. And he has mostly made great hires and great moves within the athletic department as a whole (baseball stadium, Adidas relationship).

He clearly has no problem going big, and he doesn't have a problem spending when it's warranted (Our football coach is now the 3rd-highest paid coach in the SEC, from the information I can gather).

But we're just not in a position to go throwing $3 million at a basketball coach unless we know it's a guy who's going to have success. We can afford to go there eventually if it makes sense for us. Mullen is doing incredible things with the football program, and has proven himself, so we're willing to pay what we have to. But if you throw $3 million at a basketball coach and it doesn't work out, you have set yourself back severely with a budget like State's.

Stricklin has been a pretty big success so far as an AD. Our athletic department as a whole is in phenomenal shape. He may have hired a basketball coach who proves not to be successful. That's literally the only knock at this point, and the problems with the program started way before he got rid of Stans.

This bashing of Stricklin from some within the fanbase is absurdly stupid and baseless.

Strickland is doing a great job overall. He isn't just the watchdog over basketball. B

[Coach34]

We were never getting Shaka.

exactly- his 3MM-plus statement ended any chance of that happening. And then had we offered 3.2MM or so- there was no guarantee that he would take it. We never offered anything- just inquired and the 3MM-plus was the response to our inquiry.

[Liverpooldawg]

He wasn't bringing it up as a Pro or anti-Stans argument. No problem there.

[codeDawg]

While we had a big dumpster fire going at the beginning of this, it's obvious that Strick is going let this thing burn itself out rather than invest the resources needed to extinguish it. That's the frustration from the fan base. It was a big job and the AD said "**** it, let's Croom ourselves until I can find a Mullen."

We got a guy in way over his head who will eventually get a roster than somebody else can work with until they get their own guys in here. That's 2 years down the road. We're just going to not be very good until then.

The saddest part to me is that I really like Ray, and unlike Sly, I think he has a future that this tenure may ruin. He still has a lot to learn and he's doing it on our dime, time, and record.

[Coach34]

Also- you have to understand- Miss State is NEVER going to pay a basketball coach more than a football coach- and in April of 2012- Mullen was making $2.65MM

[dawgs]

He wasn't bringing it up as a Pro or anti-Stans argument. No problem there.

NEITHER WAS I.

[codeDawg]

Also- you have to understand- Miss State is NEVER going to pay a basketball coach more than a football coach- and in April of 2012- Mullen was making $2.65MM

While that would seem to make sense, it's also an arbitrary barrier based on some some silly principle. You have to be pragmatic and creative in a bad situation, and we were neither of those.

Take a look at Pearl's contract. Two and some change with one plus in possible "bonuses" that you can talk around if you need to. With Mullen, he was going to get where he wanted to be eventually. The market was going to drive it. You don't want to bid yourself up, but you also don't want to voluntarily step into basketball purgatory for half a decade.

[Dawg61]

MSU should be floating $2MM to every corner of the earth right now. Come March fire Ray while the tournament is going on. Nobody will give two shits and will immediately forget about it. Announce the replament that same day. We get zero egg on our face and we right the ship all in one day. We can get a damn good coach for 2 million. Chris Jans for example. The BGSU coach. He'd come here for sure with that offer. We can get better than Jans. I think Scott Drew wants out at Baylor.

[Political Hack]

Hack is just being Hack. He knows full well Sword had back surgery and has been a different player since getting healthy. His SEC numbers are very good and the announcers were talking Saturday about how he should be 2nd or 3rd team All-SEC.

Fred shot 23.8% from 3 as a Freshman- now shooting 34%

Ware averaged 6 and 4 as a Freshman...now is a 10 and 7 guy...he also has gone from shooting 56% at the FT line to 75% this year

Chicken, FTF, and Ware are ALL three shooting a lower FG% than they were last year... when you combine the three it's 14% points lower than last year too. Considering the average more shots per game than anybody else on the team, that has an impact.

14% worse... Keep bragging about the "progress."

[codeDawg]

MSU should be floating $2MM to every corner of the earth right now. Come March fire Ray while the tournament is going on. Nobody will give two shits and will immediately forget about it. Announce the replament that same day. We get zero egg on our face and we right the ship all in one day. We can get a damn good coach for 2 million. Chris Jans for example. The BGSU coach. He'd come here for sure with that offer. We can get better than Jans. I think Scott Drew wants out at Baylor.

I think it will take more than $2MM to do it. The fire is still burning bright. It's obvious at this point Strick is trying to make a monetary decision and hope that next year the job looks more manageable and he doesn't have to pay a buyout. He's trying to make his job easier at the expense of the fans.

[Dawg61]

I think it will take more than $2MM to do it. The fire is still burning bright. It's obvious at this point Strick is trying to make a monetary decision and hope that next year the job looks more manageable and he doesn't have to pay a buyout. He's trying to make his job easier at the expense of the fans.

I think you're getting football salaries confused with basketball ones. Not many basketball coaches make more than 2 MM per season.

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

We hope Keenum forces Stricklin to make a move or move deeper into the abyss of irrelevancy.

[Dawg61]

This says there's only twenty coaches making 2 MM.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach

[codeDawg]

I think you're getting football salaries confused with basketball ones. Not many basketball coaches make more than 2 MM per season.

It's going to take a big-time hire to get us out of where we are both in terms of the roster and the perception outside the program. It's going to take a big check to attract that level of talent to a difficult job. Look at what Auburn did to lock up Pearl. That's commitment to winning. Paster here in Memphis makes $2.65 and Memphis is a great job (he's just not very good).

We need to do what it takes to get a guy that is 1. committed to rebuilding, and 2. capable of doing the job in short order. Otherwise, why do we have a basketball program? Head coach is the single biggest influencer on the success of your program. Spend the money you have to there in order to win.

[Dawg61]

It's going to take a big-time hire to get us out of where we are both in terms of the roster and the perception outside the program. It's going to take a big check to attract that level of talent to a difficult job. Look at what Auburn did to lock up Pearl. That's commitment to winning. Paster here in Memphis makes $2.65 and Memphis is a great job (he's just not very good).

We need to do what it takes to get a guy that is 1. committed to rebuilding, and 2. capable of doing the job in short order. Otherwise, why do we have a basketball program? Head coach is the single biggest influencer on the success of your program. Spend the money you have to there in order to win.

I'm all for all of that. Just think we can do it at 2 MM instead. Splitting hairs here.

[TheDogFather]

Ray is in over his head. Is three years long enough to "give him a chance"? That is debatable. Is three years long enough to gauge his capabilities? Absolutely.

Keeping him another year will probably happen, but at this point how can it be the best possible net benefit for the program long term? It can't.

To address a pet peeve.... Let's quit blaming lack of attendance on anything except losing. Today's sporsts programs at the cost of maintaining season tickets require winning for support.

[Liverpooldawg]

NEITHER WAS I.

Whatever.

[Coach34]

This says there's only twenty coaches making 2 MM.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach

Jesus 61- that was only coaches that made the NCAA Tourney

Something like 12 of the 14 coaches in the SEC make $2MM or more- Stands was one of the lowest paid in the SEC when he was at State and he made 1.5MM

[dawgs]

I think it will take more than $2MM to do it. The fire is still burning bright. It's obvious at this point Strick is trying to make a monetary decision and hope that next year the job looks more manageable and he doesn't have to pay a buyout. He's trying to make his job easier at the expense of the fans.

Why would next year make it look more manageable? We'd be graduating 3 4 year starters + Daniels. That's a lot of minutes to replace. If I'm a new coach, I wanna come in with an experienced, upper classmen laden roster, and have a full year to really recruit to replace this guys v. coming in with a ton of holes to fill and basically too late to do much of your own recruiting in the current recruiting cycle.

[shannondawg]

Shannondawg has been closer to the program than I ever will- doesnt mean I dont know what I'm talking about. I'm glad he wrote Strick and hope he will share the response he gets. I'm betting that its going to be Ray gets another season to prove he is the guy for us

Scott thanked me for taking time to write and express my opinion and appreciated my input.

Which is all I expected him to say. It was nice that he acknowledged my email.

[dawgs]

Whatever.

Tis true

[C222]

It doesn't matter. Act like a big time program, and you might not get Shaka, but you move down the line to the next guy. Eventually if you are confident and act like you should hire a hot coach, you'll land one of those hot coaches - and i don't mean a guy with 1 flukey tourney run, I mean a guy that's built a consistent winner over several years. We instead skipped straight down to the "assistants you've never heard of who would take the sc-upstate HC job if it was offered, no questions asked".

That's exactly what Scott did. Prohm was one of the hottest young head coaches out there at the time. He didn't just start with Kenny Payne and Rick Ray. No one wanted our job.

[quickstrike2]

That's exactly what Scott did. Prohm was one of the hottest young head coaches out there at the time. He didn't just start with Kenny Payne and Rick Ray. No one wanted our job.

I'll never believe Rick Ray was our best available. Not that we could get the hot names, I can understand them not wanting the job. However I believe we could have done better than an assistant for a mediocre Clemson team that does not have the first tie to our state or the SEC or any head coaching experience. Scott went out way too far on a limb going with his gut feeling on this one, and I'm a Scott fan, but this was a bad hire.

[Political Hack]

That's exactly what Scott did. Prohm was one of the hottest young head coaches out there at the time. He didn't just start with Kenny Payne and Rick Ray. No one wanted our job.

"why" no one wanted the job is the heart of the issue. Some will try to blame it on our consistent winner that preceded Ray. Some know and understand that we chose to thumb our nose at the coaches association's recommendations for interviews, our boosters' thoughts on the situation, and the AAU circuit and were saddled with the repercussions of essentially flipping the entire basketball world off during the remainder of the search... or at least that's how it was explained to me. Can't say for sure that's factual.

[dawgs]

That's exactly what Scott did. Prohm was one of the hottest young head coaches out there at the time. He didn't just start with Kenny Payne and Rick Ray. No one wanted our job.

Everything I've heard is we offered like $1.3M, got denied, came back with like $1.5M etc. we didn't just go in and show how serious we were off the bat. And it's quite clear that stricklin didn't effectively sell the program. Bring the facts that the ncaa snooping around was bullshit (I honestly never heard of any ncaa issues after Sidney was cleared until recently when it's been cited as a reason good coaches were scared of us, so I'm taking that excuse with a grain of salt). Come in and prove that the problems are done with the program. Come in a show that we have been really damn successful in the past and there's no reason they couldn't come in and replicate it. You can absolute sell a coach on a job just as well as a coach can sell you that he's the right one for the job. I will forever believe that stricklin didn't sell the job if the best he could do was a guy that was a career assistant at mid-tier programs and would've jumped at a low-tier D1 HC offer, much less a P5 HC offer.

[codeDawg]

"why" no one wanted the job is the heart of the issue. Some will try to blame it on our consistent winner that preceded Ray. Some know and understand that we chose to thumb our nose at the coaches association's recommendations for interviews, our boosters' thoughts on the situation, and the AAU circuit and were saddled with the repercussions of essentially flipping the entire basketball world off during the remainder of the search... or at least that's how it was explained to me. Can't say for sure that's factual.

I work in sales. Sometimes people don't buy things because of how the person selling it did their job. #justsayin'

[Dawg61]

Something like 12 of the 14 coaches in the SEC make $2MM or more- Stands was one of the lowest paid in the SEC when he was at State and he made 1.5MM

That's a total lie. Donnie Tyndall's $1.6 Mill per year is 9th in the SEC.

[Maroonthirteen]

Hahaha!!!! Memphis is paying Pastner 2.65?? A guy with no experience..... Dumbasses! I guess there was the threat of probation. I dont recall. But Calipari had that program in its best shape in a long time and they hire a nobody.

Like someone else said, now is the time for State. You have a lot of returning players. Something for a new coach to work with.

[Coach34]

That's a total lie. Donnie Tyndall's $1.6 Mill per year is 9th in the SEC.

link???

[Dawg61]

link???

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2014/04/22/donnie-tyndall-tennessee-coach-david-climer-column/8024137/

[TheDogFather]

Of course Pearl is going to recruit well.

The bottom line is, it's an average Stans-type class.

Well, you blew the request not to make this coach versus coach.

[thunderclap]

We are marred in some strange stagnant state of almost being mediocre and for some reason the same fans that blasted winning seasons as unacceptable are now suggesting that almost winning is ok... and will be ok for the foreseeable future. It's not. This is big boy basketball. Win now or go away. And let me say this, if we can't eek out a winning season with the craptastic OOC schedule we had this year along with the weakest SEC I can remember in recent memory, it's highly unlikely to change with the addition of a few more good players. Our win total may be more than our loss total next year, but mediocrity isn't the goal... at least not for some of us.

This all day. I told somebody the other day we were so sick of winning 22 games a year but now are patting some guy on the back and telling him it's okay for winning 12.

[tcdog70]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2014/04/22/donnie-tyndall-tennessee-coach-david-climer-column/8024137/

Way to whip out that link

[smootness]

Well, you blew the request not to make this coach versus coach.

That's not what I was doing with that post. People were quite happy with Stans' recruiting, and for good reason. And our next two classes will be along the same lines as those classes. So it makes no sense for people now to say the 2015 and 2016 classes don't matter because they're still not good enough.

Those players aren't here yet, and ratings suggest they are good enough. That was my point.

But whatever, I'm so sick of just going around and around with the same discussions. I'm done talking about our basketball program if it isn't about our current or future players. I am never again going to 'Ray' or 'Stans' on this board. It goes nowhere and results in stupid arguments no matter what is actually said.

[JohnnyQuid]

That's not what I was doing with that post. People were quite happy with Stans' recruiting, and for good reason. And our next two classes will be along the same lines as those classes.

Just curious , since those two classes are along the same lines as stans. If these 2 dont make happen what we need to happen, is it a hit on rays "on floor" ability or a knotch on stans board. I mean ray is supposedly the far superior on court guy right? :rolleyes:

[smootness]

Just curious , since those two classes are along the same lines as stans. If these 2 dont make happen what we need to happen, is it a hit on rays "on floor" ability or a knotch on stans board. I mean ray is supposedly the far superior on court guy right? :rolleyes:

If these 2 classes don't make it happen, it will all just be semantics. The current coach will be gone, and he certainly should be.

[RougeDawg]

Im repeating the stance of our Admin

If this is the stance of our admin, every one of their asses needs to be gone as well. If they think it is perfectly fine to allow a complete shit show proceed with very little improvement, and turn a blind eye, we don't need them at the helm. If they have this mindset for our basketball program, we might as get used to .500 teams as long as they at running the show. They are complacent with shittiness, so who really expects them to change?

[Goat from MSU]

Amen on that .
If this is the stance of our admin, every one of their asses needs to be gone as well. If they think it is perfectly fine to allow a complete shit show proceed with very little improvement, and turn a blind eye, we don't need them at the helm. If they have this mindset for our basketball program, we might as get used to .500 teams as long as they at running the show. They are complacent with shittiness, so who really expects them to change?

[msstate7]

If this is the stance of our admin, every one of their asses needs to be gone as well. If they think it is perfectly fine to allow a complete shit show proceed with very little improvement, and turn a blind eye, we don't need them at the helm. If they have this mindset for our basketball program, we might as get used to .500 teams as long as they at running the show. They are complacent with shittiness, so who really expects them to change?

Overreact much?

Our athletic program is the best it's ever been and you wanna fire everyone just bc SS wants to give a coach 1 more year. Great idea*

[bluelightstar]

Overreact much?

Our athletic program is the best it's ever been and you wanna fire everyone just bc SS wants to give a coach 1 more year. Great idea*

Fair or not -- football and baseball are in great shape, because of coaches that were hired by the previous AD. Some would say that Stricklin has just had to stay out of their way (that's not my opinion, btw). Certainly Stricklin has made good small-sports hires but no AD (especially in a P5 school) is going to survive by hiring good volleyball coaches. I would imagine for those who are "anti-Stricklin" (again, not me) that the problem is he's had one meaningful hire and it looks to be a monumental failure.

[Liverpooldawg]

I wouldn't judge anyone by our last basketball hire. That was an impossible job for the most part. Look at the facilities and the hires where he did have a chance. He has done a few things that I don't agree with but overall our athletic department is in the best shape it's ever been in.

[MadDawg]

We are marred in some strange stagnant state of almost being mediocre and for some reason the same fans that blasted winning seasons as unacceptable are now suggesting that almost winning is ok... and will be ok for the foreseeable future.

I think I just teared up.

[maroonmania]

I'll never believe Rick Ray was our best available. Not that we could get the hot names, I can understand them not wanting the job. However I believe we could have done better than an assistant for a mediocre Clemson team that does not have the first tie to our state or the SEC or any head coaching experience. Scott went out way too far on a limb going with his gut feeling on this one, and I'm a Scott fan, but this was a bad hire.

Exactly, Kermit Davis Jr. would have been a MUCH better selection and nobody can convince me he wouldn't have taken the job given his ties to MSU. And at least he was already a successful HC.

[maroonmania]

This all day. I told somebody the other day we were so sick of winning 22 games a year but now are patting some guy on the back and telling him it's okay for winning 12.

It is somewhat ironic that we fired a coach after being a #4 seed in the NIT because he wasn't "maximizing his talent" and now with a new coach that will be in his 4th year next year we are HOPING to be able to get back to at least that point.

[Goat from MSU]

Another one is Bob Marlin ,He is a State grad. and coaches at Hud's school .He been at Sam Houston State and been a head coach over 15 years. He would taken this job in a heart beat too.
Exactly, Kermit Davis Jr. would have been a MUCH better selection and nobody can convince me he wouldn't have taken the job given his ties to MSU. And at least he was already a successful HC.

[maroonmania]

Another one is Bob Marlin ,He is a State grad . coaches at Hud's school .He been at Sam Houston State and been a head coach over 10 years. He would taken this job in a heart beat too.

Yep, this mantra that Rick Ray was the only decent guy that would have taken the job at the time is just pure unadulterated hogwash.

[Goat from MSU]

It is hard to understand what they were thinking.If we had just limited our search to just State grads ,we would have come out better than what we got.
Yep, this mantra that Rick Ray was the only decent guy that would have taken the job at the time is just pure unadulterated hogwash.

[quickstrike2]

Man, this page 7 is just making way to much sense. Somebody start a Stans bashing thread.**

[RougeDawg]

Overreact much?

Our athletic program is the best it's ever been and you wanna fire everyone just bc SS wants to give a coach 1 more year. Great idea*

No I want to fire him because the initial hire was horrible, the only major hire SS has been solely responsible for. A hire for that matter he did not use a consulting/hiring firm to assist him. He had a champagne appetite, but only brought a beer pocketbook. As in most things in life, you get what you pay for. sS thought he could buy a new Mercedes at a ford Prius price. On top of that the HC he hired with this method, has yet to show any signs of improvement or urgency. Either Ray doesn't give two shits about improving the program or SS really did tell him, "Year one is a wash, you won't be held accountable and you have at least 4 years to right the ship". Either way, neither of these is acceptable for a SEC basketball program. As much as people should not be satisfied with the W/L's we should all be equally unsatisfied that our AD did not approach the hire more appropriately initially and set some urgent guidelines for turning this shit around.

[thunderclap]

I just don't see how anyone could not be of the opinion this was a 17ed up hire. At the press conference.

[tcdog70]

That's not what I was doing with that post. People were quite happy with Stans' recruiting, and for good reason. And our next two classes will be along the same lines as those classes. So it makes no sense for people now to say the 2015 and 2016 classes don't matter because they're still not good enough.

Those players aren't here yet, and ratings suggest they are good enough. That was my point.

But whatever, I'm so sick of just going around and around with the same discussions. I'm done talking about our basketball program if it isn't about our current or future players. I am never again going to 'Ray' or 'Stans' on this board. It goes nowhere and results in stupid arguments no matter what is actually said.


You post on this subject probably more than anyone. So feel free to quit posting about it. I think it needs to be discussed because it is our No. 1 FAIL. Let's don't sweep it under the rug. Keep posting _it worked for 34 and His Krewe to get rid of Stans. I can't believe they aren't trying to Can Ray for the same reasons.

[Goat from MSU]

What was Ray told when he was hired .Was year 1 a wash and he got 4 more after that ? No one seems to know . Because you are correct he acts like he got all the time in the world. What was Ray told does anyone know??
No I want to fire him because the initial hire was horrible, the only major hire SS has been solely responsible for. A hire for that matter he did not use a consulting/hiring firm to assist him. He had a champagne appetite, but only brought a beer pocketbook. As in most things in life, you get what you pay for. sS thought he could buy a new Mercedes at a ford Prius price. On top of that the HC he hired with this method, has yet to show any signs of improvement or urgency. Either Ray doesn't give two shits about improving the program or SS really did tell him, "Year one is a wash, you won't be held accountable and you have at least 4 years to right the ship". Either way, neither of these is acceptable for a SEC basketball program. As much as people should not be satisfied with the W/L's we should all be equally unsatisfied that our AD did not approach the hire more appropriately initially and set some urgent guidelines for turning this shit around.

[Dawgology]

was not the fact that Rick Ray was hired but HOW he was hired. Per SS, they took any names that people were throwing around on message boards and talking about in the media for the position and threw them away. He said this, I believe, when interviewed on BSR about 2 years ago. I don't know his reasoning behind this...it never made sense to me. It doesn't seem to be a good way to run a coaching search.

If that was truly his approach then he missed out on some great coaches due to ineptitude.

What's to be done regarding the men's basketball program? Who knows. And fewer people by the day are even caring about it. I can assure you if this train wreck is prolonged the program will not recover for a long time.

[thf24]

was not the fact that Rick Ray was hired but HOW he was hired. Per SS, they took any names that people were throwing around on message boards and talking about in the media for the position and threw them away. He said this, I believe, when interviewed on BSR about 2 years ago. I don't know his reasoning behind this...it never made sense to me. It doesn't seem to be a good way to run a coaching search.

If true, that's absolutely bizarre. I halfway understand the Ninja's deal about throwing out any names that come up in the media, but doing the same for fan discussions on message boards? Seems like a good way to deny yourself any candidate with a shred of decent notoriety or accomplishment.

[Political Hack]

If true, that's absolutely bizarre. I halfway understand the Ninja's deal about throwing out any names that come up in the media, but doing the same for fan discussions on message boards? Seems like a good way to deny yourself any candidate with a shred of decent notoriety or accomplishment.

the ninja was FOS when he said that. The two main candidates were both well known for the football gig.

[Goat from MSU]

Final RPI for 2013 was 239 ,Final RPI for 2014 was 230 , Present RPI is 197 . If we do not win the final 2 games we will have finish in the bottom 4 of the SEC and have to play the First day again this year. Who are we kidding about next year . A RPI of 150 and a CBI bid?

[dawgs]

We'd be fortunate to get a CBI bid with a 150 RPI.

[Goat from MSU]

Don't look now but if we do not win these last 2 games.We will be playing opening day of tour. for 3 years in a row .
We'd be fortunate to get a CBI bid with a 150 RPI.

[gtowndawg]

and now Ray needs to go. It was obvious in both situations. All this other stuff is background noise.

[codeDawg]

It's simple for me. Stans needed to go and now Ray needs to go. It was obvious in both situations. All this other stuff is background noise.

Preach, brother.

[Liverpooldawg]

I give up. It seems we can't discuss the program as it is without bringing up Stans. I tried for once. Others just can't seem to do it.

[maroonmania]

the ninja was FOS when he said that. The two main candidates were both well known for the football gig.

Agreed, it was well publicized at the time that we were making overtures to Steve Prohm.

[codeDawg]

I give up. It seems we can't discuss the program as it is without bringing up Stans. I tried for once. Others just can't seem to do it.

It's because the only defense of Ray being here is that Stansbury had to go. Otherwise, all the propaganda pushed to get rid of him may be viewed as a mistake, and it is impossible to admit mistakes on message boards. Even SS can't admit it because he went into a major political capital debt with Ray. All of this Rick Ray support is just people protecting their pride, egos, and interests all the way up.

We need to get over that Stansbury is gone, abort this failure, and put together a strategy that's going to actually work.

[TheRef]

I think this has lived just about long enough, wouldn't you say?