Stands and this "top of the SEC" BS that keeps getting thrown around on here

[Coach34]

2006- 5-11 in the SEC...Tied for 9th in the SEC
2007- 8-8 in the SEC- 3-way tie for 5th in the SEC
2008- 12-4 in the SEC...tied for 2nd in the SEC
2009- 9-7 in the SEC...tied for 5th in the SEC
2010- 9-7 in the SEC...3-way tie for 4th in the SEC
2011- 9-7 in the SEC...3-way tie for 4th in the SEC
2012- 8-8 in the SEC...tied for 6th best in the SEC

We were in no way, shape, or form "top of the SEC" Stands' last 7 seasons. We were a middle of the pack SEC basketball team with a shitload of drama

[bluelightstar]

But now, we're a back of the pack SEC basketball team..so progress.

ETA: I was ready for Stansbury to go, but I don't see why we can't also say that Ray is pretty bad.

[Coach34]

Ray is irrelevant in this thread- this is about where our program was before him

[HancockCountyDog]

Ray is irrelevant in this thread- this is about where our program was before him

We were relevant during Stans tenure, we are irrelevant now. The rest of this debate is just noise.

[smootness]

We were relevant during Stans tenure, we are irrelevant now. The rest of this debate is just noise.

That's an embarrassingly simple explanation.

We had a program that embarrassed the entire university under Stans, we don't now.
We were a joke under Stans, now we are less of a joke.
We were never again going to be a real factor nationally under Stans, now we at least have the hope of one day getting there again.

Those are also simply explanations that are just as valid as yours.

[HancockCountyDog]

That's an embarrassingly simple explanation.

We had a program that embarrassed the entire university under Stans, we don't now.
We were a joke under Stans, now we are less of a joke.
We were never again going to be a real factor nationally under Stans, now we at least have the hope of one day getting there again.

Those are also simply explanations that are just as valid as yours.

All I know is that if our players got into a fight in the stands now, there would be no one there to break it up.

I didn't give a shit about how the national media perceived us. Screw those guys. The same national media that called King Jackie a slime ball and a cheat? Yeah , they call you names when you are kicking their ass, when you are getting your ass kicked, the media thinks you are just a nice guy.

I want the media to be calling our coach a cheat and slime ball, that means we are probably kicking someone's ass.

[smootness]

All I know is that if our players got into a fight in the stands now, there would be no one there to break it up.

I didn't give a shit about how the national media perceived us. Screw those guys. The same national media that called King Jackie a slime ball and a cheat? Yeah , they call you names when you are kicking their ass, when you are getting your ass kicked, the media thinks you are just a nice guy.

I want the media to be calling our coach a cheat and slime ball, that means we are probably kicking someone's ass.

Well, we also weren't doing that to anybody.

Why is this hard for people to understand? We weren't some kind of big, bad team that also happened to get into some fights. We were a really talented, broken, dysfunctional mess that couldn't go better than 8-9 in the SEC. That also happened to fight ourselves on national TV and embarrass the school.

[Homedawg]

Well, we also weren't doing that to anybody.

Why is this hard for people to understand? We weren't some kind of big, bad team that also happened to get into some fights. We were a really talented, broken, dysfunctional mess that couldn't go better than 8-9 in the SEC. That also happened to fight ourselves on national TV and embarrass the school.
Why is this^ so hard to see? We weren't a national power during the stans years. I understand we weren't the bottom of the league either. But to listen to some of you we got rid of Adolph rupp. We underachieved we the talent we had in more than 10 of his 14 years. Kudos to to him for getting the talent, that's part of it. But boy did he ever f it up once we got it.

[HancockCountyDog]

Well, we also weren't doing that to anybody.

Why is this hard for people to understand? We weren't some kind of big, bad team that also happened to get into some fights. We were a really talented, broken, dysfunctional mess that couldn't go better than 8-9 in the SEC. That also happened to fight ourselves on national TV and embarrass the school.

Four out of five of his last seasons he had a winning SEC record. Hell, he didn't have a losing SEC record since 2006. When 8-8, 9-7, 9-7, 9-7, 12-4 with 21, 19, 24, 23, 23 wins isn't considered kicking ass your last five years, good luck to Rick Ray.

[HancockCountyDog]

Why is this^ so hard to see? We weren't a national power during the stans years. I understand we weren't the bottom of the league either. But to listen to some of you we got rid of Adolph rupp. We underachieved we the talent we had in more than 10 of his 14 years. Kudos to to him for getting the talent, that's part of it. But boy did he ever f it up once we got it.

I would love for our basketball program to have been as ****ed up the last three years as Stans had it his last three years.

No one is saying Stans was Rupp, but we played relevant basketball games in Feb and March for the last five years he was here. We haven't played a meaningful basketball game in three years.

[smootness]

We won 17 his next to last year.

And now we see that it really is Stans supporters, not the people who supported him leaving, that have the lowered expectations.

If being a slightly-above-.500 SEC team is 'kicking a**' then sure, bring Stans back. Just realize we would pretty much be assuring we never did any better than that. Ever again. And again, the program was actually trending downward, so even that was probably going to be expecting too much.

The reason we wanted Stans gone at the end is because we want to ultimately do better than what he offered. If Ray isn't the guy to do it, fine, get rid of him and try somebody else. But trying and failing, which leads to trying again is far better than just accepting that you won't do better.

[smootness]

I would love for our basketball program to have been as ****ed up the last three years as Stans had it his last three years.

No one is saying Stans was Rupp, but we played relevant basketball games in Feb and March for the last five years he was here. We haven't played a meaningful basketball game in three years.

And. that. wasn't. going. to. happen. the. next. year. Even with Stans.

That's my point. Bost was leaving, Moultrie was leaving. We can argue all we want, but Hood was also leaving. The only positive was that Sidney was also leaving.

And the guys on this current team? The guys who can't make shots or score? Those are the same guys who were going to make up that team. As freshmen.

We were going to be terrible in 2012-2013 with or without Stans. We weren't going to be even as good as we had been in Stans' last 3 years. Again, I have no idea why this is so hard for people to understand.

[coastdoglover]

Coach couldn't make it a week without starting a new Stansbury thread. Gee, are you obsessed or just crazy? We just got our ass beat by 18 at home by a team who was lackadaisical and you are more worried about this crap. How about talking about how to teach inbounding the basketball, or making free throws, or simply running a set play in the half court offense.




I would love for our basketball program to have been as ****ed up the last three years as Stans had it his last three years.

No one is saying Stans was Rupp, but we played relevant basketball games in Feb and March for the last five years he was here. We haven't played a meaningful basketball game in three years.

[TopDog58]

2006- 5-11 in the SEC...Tied for 9th in the SEC
2007- 8-8 in the SEC- 3-way tie for 5th in the SEC
2008- 12-4 in the SEC...tied for 2nd in the SEC
2009- 9-7 in the SEC...tied for 5th in the SEC
2010- 9-7 in the SEC...3-way tie for 4th in the SEC
2011- 9-7 in the SEC...3-way tie for 4th in the SEC
2012- 8-8 in the SEC...tied for 6th best in the SEC

We were in no way, shape, or form "top of the SEC" Stands' last 7 seasons. We were a middle of the pack SEC basketball team with a shitload of drama

B-b-but 3rd winningest program in the SEC behind KY and Florida! Just don't mention the fact that 8 other SEC programs had a Sweet 16 or beyond appearance during that tenure. Shhhhhh you'll ruin the agenda!

[HancockCountyDog]

We won 17 his next to last year.

And now we see that it really is Stans supporters, not the people who supported him leaving, that have the lowered expectations.

If being a slightly-above-.500 SEC team is 'kicking a**' then sure, bring Stans back. Just realize we would pretty much be assuring we never did any better than that. Ever again. And again, the program was actually trending downward, so even that was probably going to be expecting too much.

The reason we wanted Stans gone at the end is because we want to ultimately do better than what he offered. If Ray isn't the guy to do it, fine, get rid of him and try somebody else. But trying and failing, which leads to trying again is far better than just accepting that you won't do better.

Sounds great.

Problem is that we are learning what every other SEC school is learning, which is that it's really ****ing hard to be a consistently relevant program in the SEC. Stans made it look easy, which is why we were all frustrated . We took it for granted that our floor was 17-19 wins and 8 SEC wins. We took it for granted that any coach could do that. Well as so many schools are finding out, it's actually really hard to do that.

If the goal was to exceed what Stans had done, fine, then this experiment should be over. Even the most ardent Ray supporter would admit that next years ceiling is maybe a bubble team, and that we take a step back in 16/17.

[smootness]

If the goal was to exceed what Stans had done, fine, then this experiment should be over. Even the most ardent Ray supporter would admit that next years ceiling is maybe a bubble team, and that we take a step back in 16/17.

I'm certainly not sold that 16-17 will definitely be a step back. If we can get James Banks and another impact player in the '16 class, then we'll have way more talent in '16 than we currently have or than we'll have next year. But if next year's team isn't good enough, then it likely won't matter.

If we're on the NCAA Tourney bubble next year and add Hicks, Simonds, Banks, and somebody else, I'm all for keeping Ray and giving him a shot.

And yes, it's hard to become a good program in the SEC.

And yes, we were consistently relevant under Stans, as long as relevant means decent.

But we had become a program whose floor was 8-8 in the SEC and whose ceiling was 9-7 in the SEC...and again, it was trending downward, so that likely wouldn't have even remained the same anymore. We weren't winning 8 SEC games in '12-'13 no matter what.

That's not good enough for me, and I know we can do better. That's all I need to know in order to make a change. That doesn't mean we're doing better with Ray. But I'd even rather be terrible for 4 years with Ray and then reboot and try again than to continue with what we had our last few years under Stans.

[TheDogFather]

2006- 5-11 in the SEC...Tied for 9th in the SEC
2007- 8-8 in the SEC- 3-way tie for 5th in the SEC
2008- 12-4 in the SEC...tied for 2nd in the SEC
2009- 9-7 in the SEC...tied for 5th in the SEC
2010- 9-7 in the SEC...3-way tie for 4th in the SEC
2011- 9-7 in the SEC...3-way tie for 4th in the SEC
2012- 8-8 in the SEC...tied for 6th best in the SEC

We were in no way, shape, or form "top of the SEC" Stands' last 7 seasons. We were a middle of the pack SEC basketball team with a shitload of drama

For a long time I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Rose colored glasses. Always shed MSU in positive light. Build the program up. Make a post on a slow day to get traffic up. Have a little fun with some banter.

But I've realized that you sincerely have issues. I mean like legitimate psychological issues. I'm serious. You need professional help.

[Noxdog]

For a long time I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Rose colored glasses. Always shed MSU in positive light. Build the program up. Make a post on a slow day to get traffic up. Have a little fun with some banter.

But I've realized that you sincerely have issues. I mean like legitimate psychological issues. I'm serious. You need professional help.

DAMN. Pot meet kettle. Yall are some full blown retards about this. Both sides, but to suggest that someone needs pro help over CBB. Absurd.

[TheDogFather]

Well, we also weren't doing that to anybody.

Why is this hard for people to understand? We weren't some kind of big, bad team that also happened to get into some fights. We were a really talented, broken, dysfunctional mess that couldn't go better than 8-9 in the SEC. That also happened to fight ourselves on national TV and embarrass the school.

There are several thousand people who would disagree with your relevancy assessment.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_SBc-REbeAQ/maxresdefault.jpg
http://image.cdnllnwnl.xosnetwork.com/pics32/400/WU/WUWHOAXOEYIIBZO.20110114233105.jpg

[Coach34]

For a long time I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Rose colored glasses. Always shed MSU in positive light. Build the program up. Make a post on a slow day to get traffic up. Have a little fun with some banter.

But I've realized that you sincerely have issues. I mean like legitimate psychological issues. I'm serious. You need professional help.

I'm sorry the truth bothers you.

I just have to laugh at the University of Stands people like yourself that try to spin some narrative that Stands had us as a top SEC team. We clearly were not his last 7 seasons. No way- no how. That made up legend needs to die

[TheDogFather]

DAMN. Pot meet kettle. Yall are some full blown retards about this. Both sides, but to suggest that someone needs pro help over CBB. Absurd.

Why post another of a hundred derogatory cases against an "irrelevant" coach (I mean recruiter) who did nothing positive for our program, and has been gone for over three years on the same night we played Kentucky at home? Why not post something about our current team on such a night unless you have serious issues?

Why not start a thread about Rick Ray? There really is something wrong with it.

[TheDogFather]

I'm sorry the truth bothers you.

I just have to laugh at the University of Stands people like yourself that try to spin some narrative that Stands had us as a top SEC team. We clearly were not his last 7 seasons. No way- no how. That made up legend needs to die

Maybe it would die if you would quit bringing it up.

[smootness]

More people showed up because we won more games. Obviously. That's the way it works.

But one, we had a ton of games late in Stans' tenure when very few people showed up. I guarantee that was a big-time opponent we're playing in that picture, if it's even from late in Stans' tenure.

And two, no, we're not currently relevant. That doesn't in any way mean Stans' last few teams were acceptable.

We were never again going to assemble the kind of talent we had on the 2011-2012 team. Holy crap. And some people think we waited too long to make the move? We'd have even more people making this crazy argument. I guarantee that if we had fired Stans after the 2010-2011 season, there would be people saying we would have gone to the Final 4 with the talent we were going to have the following year with Stans sticking around.

We knew before the 2011-2012 season that it was Stans' big chance to prove to everyone we were still the program we had been a decade earlier. Everyone was pointing to that year as the year, when we would have an incredible abundance of talent. It was to be Stans' chance to save himself and get us back.

And what did we do? We won 8 SEC games, lost 9 including the Tournament, and lost as a 4 seed in the NIT. And now we have people pointing back as though that was just kind of an average year under Stans.

No, it was the year for Stans to show what the program still was. And we ended the year in embarrassing, horrid fashion. Even with that team.

[Bully13]

2006- 5-11 in the SEC...Tied for 9th in the SEC
2007- 8-8 in the SEC- 3-way tie for 5th in the SEC
2008- 12-4 in the SEC...tied for 2nd in the SEC
2009- 9-7 in the SEC...tied for 5th in the SEC
2010- 9-7 in the SEC...3-way tie for 4th in the SEC
2011- 9-7 in the SEC...3-way tie for 4th in the SEC
2012- 8-8 in the SEC...tied for 6th best in the SEC

We were in no way, shape, or form "top of the SEC" Stands' last 7 seasons. We were a middle of the pack SEC basketball team with a shitload of drama

I miss the drama

[Bully13]

2006- 5-11 in the SEC...Tied for 9th in the SEC
2007- 8-8 in the SEC- 3-way tie for 5th in the SEC
2008- 12-4 in the SEC...tied for 2nd in the SEC
2009- 9-7 in the SEC...tied for 5th in the SEC
2010- 9-7 in the SEC...3-way tie for 4th in the SEC
2011- 9-7 in the SEC...3-way tie for 4th in the SEC
2012- 8-8 in the SEC...tied for 6th best in the SEC

We were in no way, shape, or form "top of the SEC" Stands' last 7 seasons. We were a middle of the pack SEC basketball team with a shitload of drama

and I miss "middle of the pack"

[Coach34]

I miss the drama

nobody misses that shit. People miss having more talented teams. But nobody misses the drama

[Noxdog]

Why post another of a hundred derogatory cases against an "irrelevant" coach (I mean recruiter) who did nothing positive for our program, and has been gone for over three years on the same night we played Kentucky at home? Why not post something about our current team on such a night unless you have serious issues?

Why not start a thread about Rick Ray? There really is something wrong with it.

I dunno? Maybe because yall both are crazier than batshit??? It's become a tit for tat deal. I'm not happy about current events but I was not happy at the shit show that we became under Rick either. Unless something changes he is coming back. Much ado about nothing. Keep your powder dry for next year because it's all on the line then.

All of this useless at this point.

[Dawg61]

I wish you ****ers would stop fighting over our last head coach and current one. They both suck. We will never make another NCAA tournament with either of them. That's what I want. To be in the NCAA tourney.

[Bully13]

nobody misses that shit. People miss having more talented teams. But nobody misses the drama

sorry for forgetting the ***.. I would trade anything for the suck I see going on now. and there's no 17ing excuse for it.

[TheDogFather]

2006- 5-11 in the SEC...Tied for 9th in the SEC
2007- 8-8 in the SEC- 3-way tie for 5th in the SEC
2008- 12-4 in the SEC...tied for 2nd in the SEC
2009- 9-7 in the SEC...tied for 5th in the SEC
2010- 9-7 in the SEC...3-way tie for 4th in the SEC
2011- 9-7 in the SEC...3-way tie for 4th in the SEC
2012- 8-8 in the SEC...tied for 6th best in the SEC

We were in no way, shape, or form "top of the SEC" Stands' last 7 seasons. We were a middle of the pack SEC basketball team with a shitload of drama

While you were doing your research, I found this...
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g114/dawgbydesign/Capture.jpg

[Coach34]

While you were doing your research, I found this...
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g114/dawgbydesign/Capture.jpg


That has zero to do with this thread

[mcdawg]

Four out of five of his last seasons he had a winning SEC record. Hell, he didn't have a losing SEC record since 2006. When 8-8, 9-7, 9-7, 9-7, 12-4 with 21, 19, 24, 23, 23 wins isn't considered kicking ass your last five years, good luck to Rick Ray.

This is absolutely right! We were relevant and now nobody gives a damn. Not one person has asked for my 4 floor level tickets for 3 years, and I use to get tired of people asking for them. And this "fight in the stands crap" - a week later not one person outside of MS could even tell you the players names and the school. Quit bringing that up. A North Carolina fan asked me the other day "why did you get rid of your coach? Ya'll use to be so good". I said that a bunch of dumbass fans cared about a fight between 2 players - he laughed and said he never heard of the fight.

All I know is that people use to care and people use to go to our games. Now, I didn't even bother to watch the game tonight. SMOOTNESS - pull out your checkbook because you now can buy my 4 tickets and pay the Bulldog dues for that honor. I am buying tickets to watch our women's team - we have a good coach that can coach offense, teach an inbounds play, and recruit. He has earned my support - and when he coaches, the games mean something.

Start writing your check. You will have plenty of legroom and space on both sides of you.

[Bully13]

yep...the 7 yr avg was 5th in the SEC with stands.... way to go back to '06 for that 9th place finish to pad the numbers. I miss being competitive and not ELEVENTH.. take away that '06 year and we're 4.33...

[engie]

Why start this thread?

You can't just let bygones be bygones can you?

[smootness]

This is absolutely right! We were relevant and now nobody gives a damn. Not one person has asked for my 4 floor level tickets for 3 years, and I use to get tired of people asking for them. And this "fight in the stands crap" - a week later not one person outside of MS could even tell you the players names and the school. Quit bringing that up. A North Carolina fan asked me the other day "why did you get rid of your coach? Ya'll use to be so good". I said that a bunch of dumbass fans cared about a fight between 2 players - he laughed and said he never heard of the fight.

All I know is that people use to care and people use to go to our games. Now, I didn't even bother to watch the game tonight. SMOOTNESS - pull out your checkbook because you now can buy my 4 tickets and pay the Bulldog dues for that honor. I am buying tickets to watch our women's team - we have a good coach that can coach offense, teach an inbounds play, and recruit. He has earned my support - and when he coaches, the games mean something.

Start writing your check. You will have plenty of legroom and space on both sides of you.

Who said I liked what we currently have on the court? I am actually more likely to spend and watch this team play than I was to spend and watch Sidney cross the court less than 10 times per game while the rest of the team stood around getting beat by teams way worse than them.

[Bully13]

Who said I liked what we currently have on the court? I am actually more likely to spend and watch this team play than I was to spend and watch Sidney cross the court less than 10 times per game while the rest of the team stood around getting beat by teams way worse than them.

we used to not get beat by SWAC teams from AL and unknowns from SC at home.

[Coach34]

Why start this thread?

You can't just let bygones be bygones can you?

Nope

[smootness]

we used to not get beat by SWAC teams from AL and unknowns from SC at home.

Who said I liked what we currently have on the court?

Also, how many times would you like me to respond with this question before you realize that I don't like what we currently have on the court.

[Coach34]

yep...the 7 yr avg was 5th in the SEC with stands.... way to go back to '06 for that 9th place finish to pad the numbers. I miss being competitive and not ELEVENTH.. take away that '06 year and we're 4.33...

Not really 5th because of the tie's with other schools and no tie-breakers

And went back to 06 because we constantly talk about the last half of his tenure

[cubswillwinitonedaydawg]

I understand both sides of this argument.
It was kind of embarrassing seeing the fight replayed and overanalyzed and it did seem like Rick under-achieved year after year. But I remember having to stand in the student line (07 - 09) for an hour or 2 to get in to SEC games and hoping there would be seats in the lower deck left.
Now they offer free pizza and still can't get anybody to go.
Pick your poison.
I personally kinda miss poison # 1.

[TUSK]

nobody misses that shit. People miss having more talented teams. But nobody misses the drama

I'm in NO way either a basketball/baseball cat, by any stretch of the imagination...

As a Bammer, I can recall winning a SECC with Mike Dubose in footbal in '99 (and openly rooting against Bama in those years), suffering through the fall of that secretariHo smackin Wimp who resided over a really good B-Ball run... and watching (arguably) the 2nd greatest all-time SEC baseball program slip late during Coach Wells' tenure...

sometimes, it's tough to "cut the cord"...

[MidTNDawg]

For the life of me, I cannot understand ANYBODY continues to bring this up! This is not even a big thing on SPS and goodness knows they have little enough sports threads anymore. Talk about a dead horse . . . Wow

[MidTNDawg]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why ANYBODY continues to bring this up! This is not even a big thing on SPS and goodness knows they have little enough sports threads anymore. Talk about a dead horse . . . Wow

[Goat from MSU]

Engie :It does not matter Coach has the problem his buddy who works on campus has .His head is up his ass so far that he may need a glass stomach to see out of. Our last coach has been gone 3 years he not causing losses to South Carolina Upstate and Home losses to Ole Miss and Georiga when we had leads in the 2nd half. Whatever
Why start this thread?

You can't just let bygones be bygones can you?

[msumudcat]

As a marketing/fundraising professional it's pretty simple.

Your product's "worth" or "relevance" (MBB) can be measured by excitement and butts in seats.

C34 why don't you publish attendance figures between what we had and what we have?

We now have a program that nobody wants to go see.

I used to drive 5 or 6 times a year from NW TN to watch. Did we always win? No...were we relevant and exciting? Yes.

Case closed.

[Schultzy]

Butler

[MadDawg]

That's an embarrassingly simple explanation.

We had a program that embarrassed the entire university under Stans, we don't now.
We were a joke under Stans, now we are less of a joke.
We were never again going to be a real factor nationally under Stans, now we at least have the hope of one day getting there again.

Those are also simply explanations that are just as valid as yours.

This is the biggest bullshit I've ever read on the interwebs.

[MadDawg]

And now we see that it really is Stans supporters, not the people who supported him leaving, that have the lowered expectations.

I retract my previous statement.

[Coach34]

As a marketing/fundraising professional it's pretty simple.

Your product's "worth" or "relevance" (MBB) can be measured by excitement and butts in seats.

C34 why don't you publish attendance figures between what we had and what we have?

We now have a program that nobody wants to go see.

I used to drive 5 or 6 times a year from NW TN to watch. Did we always win? No...were we relevant and exciting? Yes.

Case closed.

aGAIN- that has zero to do with the actual results. The University of Stands people- like yourself you Kozy-born hardheaded man- continually say we were tops on the SEC with Stands. And that is an outright lie. We were a middle of the pack SEC team under Stands the last half of his tenure. And also the 1st 3 years of his tenure. He had a very good 4 yr run from 2002-2005- but by 2012, those days were long gone and never coming back.

We were middle of the pack SEC the last half of his tenure- that's all I'm establishing- and would appreciate you guys being honest in future threads

[drunkernhelldawg]

That's an embarrassingly simple explanation.

We had a program that embarrassed the entire university under Stans, we don't now.
We were a joke under Stans, now we are less of a joke.
We were never again going to be a real factor nationally under Stans, now we at least have the hope of one day getting there again.

Those are also simply explanations that are just as valid as yours.

Hey, did y'all hear? Two college athletes had a fight with each other. Who thought that could ever happen? Surely it has never happened before. Oops. Shirley. My bad. I'm sooooooo embarrassed. It just dries my ****** right up.

[Bama_Dawg]

Can't we just bring Richard Williams back? ***

[TheDogFather]

aGAIN- that has zero to do with the actual results. The University of Stands people- like yourself you Kozy-born hardheaded man- continually say we were tops on the SEC with Stands. And that is an outright lie. We were a middle of the pack SEC team under Stands the last half of his tenure. And also the 1st 3 years of his tenure. He had a very good 4 yr run from 2002-2005- but by 2012, those days were long gone and never coming back.

We were middle of the pack SEC the last half of his tenure- that's all I'm establishing- and would appreciate you guys being honest in future threads

Ok. Ok. Everyone gets it. If we take out of consideration the most successful part of Stansbury's tenure, we get the least successful part.

[msumudcat]

Never said that we were tops in the SEC. Because of your hatred for RS, you can't see the truth. We were relevant under his leadership.

When RS was our coach we routinely sold out the Hump.

Now, we are jacked if 1500 shows.

It enthralls me to see my JUCO teammate and friend C34 avoid the relevance of our MBB. Butts in seats, butts in seats.

[Liverpooldawg]

We won 17 his next to last year.

And now we see that it really is Stans supporters, not the people who supported him leaving, that have the lowered expectations.

If being a slightly-above-.500 SEC team is 'kicking a**' then sure, bring Stans back. Just realize we would pretty much be assuring we never did any better than that. Ever again. And again, the program was actually trending downward, so even that was probably going to be expecting too much.

The reason we wanted Stans gone at the end is because we want to ultimately do better than what he offered. If Ray isn't the guy to do it, fine, get rid of him and try somebody else. But trying and failing, which leads to trying again is far better than just accepting that you won't do better.

You got what you wanted. Stans is gone. Congrats on your achievement.

[msumudcat]

Btw, I rarely touched the field and C34 was a starter. Lack of talent and shit on my part.

[Liverpooldawg]

I miss hearing about our problems in the national media. If we had a fight now nobody would ever hear about it. If it was at home there might not be anyone there to see it. We had a nice run under the Williams/Stans regime but alas it wasn't good enough for the stature of the program so we had to end it.***

[Coach34]

Btw, I rarely touched the field and C34 was a starter. Lack of talent and shit on my part.

Your Jack Cristil imitation was one of the best out there

[msumudcat]

I love that man. Not to hi "jack" the thread but "pleasant good afternoon" to everyone.

[Goat from MSU]

Pure Gold Again that has zero to do with the actual results. Yes I vote to not to keep score the last three years .That could help Ray keep his job really.
aGAIN- that has zero to do with the actual results. The University of Stands people- like yourself you Kozy-born hardheaded man- continually say we were tops on the SEC with Stands. And that is an outright lie. We were a middle of the pack SEC team under Stands the last half of his tenure. And also the 1st 3 years of his tenure. He had a very good 4 yr run from 2002-2005- but by 2012, those days were long gone and never coming back.

We were middle of the pack SEC the last half of his tenure- that's all I'm establishing- and would appreciate you guys being honest in future threads

[Johnson85]

We were relevant under his leadership.

When RS was our coach we routinely sold out the Hump.


We were relevant because we could for the most part compete in any one game and had tournament quality talent, even if it was unlikely that we would actually make the tournament. There's no doubt that if anybody was satisfied with that, getting rid of Stansbury was the suck. Anybody that thought we were going to get rid of Stans and had a better than 50/50 (or even better than 40/60) chance of improving was delusional.

But at the same time, the basketball program was going to lose support regardless. Stansbury was on a downward slope and it would have been extremely hard for him to right the ship just because he would never get a fresh start with new players. We could have stuck with Stansbury and very likely "enjoyed" a slow decline. We would have been worse the last three years than Stans' last two years (probably not as bad as expected from the talent loss just because that talent hugely underachieved, even for Stans), but better than we have been with Rick Ray. But we're still talking about NIT teams, with that basically being our ceiling. I'd prefer that to what we have now, but at the same time, I would lose interest in that pretty quickly. We were going to have to suffer through a rebuild when we lost/fired Stansbury regardless, and I don't have a huge problem with facing that rebuild sooner rather than later, even though we could have had a few more NIT teams if we had waited.

[Coach34]

The Johnson guy gets it

[Liverpooldawg]

W
aGAIN- that has zero to do with the actual results. The University of Stands people- like yourself you Kozy-born hardheaded man- continually say we were tops on the SEC with Stands. And that is an outright lie. We were a middle of the pack SEC team under Stands the last half of his tenure. And also the 1st 3 years of his tenure. He had a very good 4 yr run from 2002-2005- but by 2012, those days were long gone and never coming back.

We were middle of the pack SEC the last half of his tenure- that's all I'm establishing- and would appreciate you guys being honest in future threads
You got your wish. Things changed. We are now firmly entrenched in the lower reaches of the league.

[BiscuitEater]

We were in no way, shape, or form "top of the SEC" Stands' last 7 seasons. We were a middle of the pack SEC basketball team with a shitload of drama

Lotta 'hate' in that post. Sorry, but even in Stan's 'worse' year may end up being better than Ray's best year.

[tcdog70]

34, you lose credibility in your asinine rant, when you selectively pick His Worst years. Look at the whole ball of wax. He won more games than any Coach in our history. To assume that if He stayed He would have continued to have our program go down has no basis. What is Alabama had fired Bear Bryant when He had a dip in the late 60's. Stansbury made MSU a Force in the SEC and He did it longer than any Coach in our History. He should have been given another Year to right the Ship and if He couldn't then Fire Him. He deserved that. What Strick did was awful.He is getting what He deserves, and the people that are suffering are the Bulldog Basketball Fans.

[War Machine Dawg]

Why is this^ so hard to see? We weren't a national power during the stans years. I understand we weren't the bottom of the league either. But to listen to some of you we got rid of Adolph rupp. We underachieved we the talent we had in more than 10 of his 14 years. Kudos to to him for getting the talent, that's part of it. But boy did he ever f it up once we got it.

Nailed it. Other than a 2 season stretch where he caught lightning in a bottle with Bowers & L-Rob's team, we were never much more than a middle of the pack SEC team. And even in those 2 seasons, Stans managed to flame out without reaching the Sweet 16. And he totally missed the Big Dance with the '09 team that had seniors Varnado & Stewart, freshman Bost who Stans had already publicly called the best PG he'd coached, and damn good role players in Ravern, Turner, Kodi, etc. If he couldn't make the NCAAT with that group, he wasn't going to make it again. Don't know why that is so hard to understand.

[Johnson85]

To assume that if He stayed He would have continued to have our program go down has no basis.

Normally that would be true enough. Coaches with any length of a career in one place will have peaks and valleys. The problem with Stans was not that he had a downward trend in results, it was that he had a downward trend in players' respect for the coaching staff. For much of Stansubry's career, Stansbury managed to recruit players that were higher character than the baseball or football players. But the character of his players trended steadily downward and that was a real problem for him by the time he left. As far as I know, Ware, Thomas, and Sword have kept entirely out of trouble since they've been here, so maybe he could have turned it around with them. But he also would have been bringing Gray, who had some red flags to say the least. And there would have been upper classmen on the team that possibly Stansbury wouldn't have been in a good position to discipline. Maybe those players would have been a bad influence on the freshmen, maybe not. Certainly Stewart and Varnado never seemed to be brought down by their teammates, but there are a lot more examples of players that were. It just would have been tough for Stansbury (or any coach in his position) to change the culture with players that he brought in and when he had allowed the culture to degenerate to the place it had.

There's no arguing that Stansbury did a lot for MSU and State fans on the whole should be very appreciative of Stansbury, but what Stricklin did was certainly not awful. It wasn't a no-brainer decision either way. If Stansbury had stayed another year, that would have been fine with me. I certainly think it was a mistake to fire him without having a better grasp on what the replacement options were. But he wasn't entitled to another year.

[Coach34]

Lotta 'hate' in that post. Sorry, but even in Stan's 'worse' year may end up being better than Ray's best year.

aGAIN- has nothing to do with this thread

[Coach34]

34, you lose credibility in your asinine rant, when you selectively pick His Worst years. Look at the whole ball of wax.

I picked his last SEVEN years- the last half of his tenure and the most recent. Those are the most relevant. The last half of his tenure we were middle of the pack- the proof is right there- you cant deny it or spin it.

[Liverpooldawg]

Middle of the pack............looks mighty good compared to where we are now. You can't deny it or spin it.

[ScoobaDawg]

Dear god... why do people argue with Coach about Stans still? Coach34 loves nothing more than trounching on his grave as a head coach.
Coach is right he wasnt a good coach any more. He was a hell of a recruiter. The simple fact that he won't every be a Head coach again speaks enough.
Stansbury was not going to turn the program around. Let it die.

But on the same hand, Stans being a bad coach does not compute with how horrible a coach Ray is.
Ray will get next year and hopefully that is enough of that.


Stansbury is gone and anyone trying to support him or saying he would do a better job should just go root for him as an Asst for the Aggies.

[ScoobaDawg]

34, you lose credibility in your asinine rant, when you selectively pick His Worst years.
He picked his last 7 years. Nothing selective about half his career.


Look at the whole ball of wax. He won more games than any Coach in our history.
With our history that doesn't mean much of anything than He was marginally better than everyone else that sucked or stuck around long enough. Not always something to hang your hat on.



To assume that if He stayed He would have continued to have our program go down has no basis.
The fact he was not hired as a head coach ANYWHERE shows noone believed in him.


What is Alabama had fired Bear Bryant when He had a dip in the late 60's.
You don't want to play what if's What if Sidney or someone else went off and shot and killed another player instead of just fighting.



Stansbury made MSU a Force in the SEC and He did it longer than any Coach in our History. He should have been given another Year to right the Ship and if He couldn't then Fire Him. He deserved that. What Strick did was awful.He is getting what He deserves, and the people that are suffering are the Bulldog Basketball Fans.

He got more time than was needed. The ship had been sinking for a long time. I love Rick as a person and was around several of those later teams and It was getting worse. The inmates were running the asylum. It was time. Just let it go.

[Coach34]

Middle of the pack............looks mighty good compared to where we are now. You can't deny it or spin it.

Has nothing to do with this thread

[smootness]

He should have been given another Year to right the Ship and if He couldn't then Fire Him. He deserved that.

Why?! He had that year. 2011-2012 was that year, and he failed.

2012-2013 was going to be far less talented and experienced than the year before. So what on earth would make it make sense to give him that year if he had failed with the previous year?

Think about the CEO of a company who has had them on a steady track, but there began to be rumors of insubordination and internal strife while the performance of the company suffered. So the CEO cleans house, brings in guys with a better track record than the ones he had, and trains them up. Then with everything in place, the company continues to putter along below expectations.

You would give that guy one more year, knowing those talented employees were leaving, and less skilled, less experienced people were coming in? For what purpose?

[MadDawg]

He picked his last 7 years. Nothing selective about half his career.

With our history that doesn't mean much of anything than He was marginally better than everyone else that sucked or stuck around long enough. Not always something to hang your hat on.


The fact he was not hired as a head coach ANYWHERE shows noone believed in him.

You don't want to play what if's What if Sidney or someone else went off and shot and killed another player instead of just fighting.



He got more time than was needed. The ship had been sinking for a long time. I love Rick as a person and was around several of those later teams and It was getting worse. The inmates were running the asylum. It was time. Just let it go.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but if we never get back to the level the former coach had us at, was it still time?

[ScoobaDawg]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but if we never get back to the level the former coach had us at, was it still time?

Yes. Even if Stans maintained his status quo of finishing at .500 in conference it was time. And I will not accept the notion we cannot ever do better than that position just because we haven't before. Thats an LT mindset.

[Goat from MSU]

Yes it was. But the Ray hire was .............. well you seeing the results now. Is his time to go?
Just playing devil's advocate here, but if we never get back to the level the former coach had us at, was it still time?

[Political Hack]

Stans's worst was better than Ray's best. Case closed.

[Liverpooldawg]

Has nothing to do with this thread

It has everything to do with it. Do you prefer where we are now or where we were then? Simple question.

[Coach34]

Stans's worst was better than Ray's best. Case closed.

At what? Not in team discipline

[Political Hack]

At what? Not in team discipline

Ray would probably do pretty well at the YMCA where they focus more on discipline and sportsmanship and winning is a secondary consideration.

[Coach34]

Ray would probably do pretty well at the YMCA where they focus more on discipline and sportsmanship and winning is a secondary consideration.

Coaching? Slight lean Ray
Discipline? Ray in a landslide
Recruiting? Stands in landslide to this point

[Dawg61]

Coaching? Slight lean Ray
Discipline? Ray in a landslide
Recruiting? Stands in landslide to this point

Stansbury is 9th all-time in the SEC in wins. Quit shitting on Stansbury by saying "slight lean Ray". That is a joke. I wanted RS fired too.

[Coach34]

So what? He is a very good recruiter that rarely won a big game...Stands was 1-24 vs RPI top 25 teams his last 6-7 years or something like that. Nothing about that spells good coach...he was a good recruiter

[Liverpooldawg]

So what? He is a very good recruiter that rarely won a big game...Stands was 1-24 vs RPI top 25 teams his last 6-7 years or something like that. Nothing about that spells good coach...he was a good recruiter

At least he DID win a few big games. We don't even HAVE big games anymore. You got what you wanted, he is gone. I hope you are enjoying it.

[Dallas_Dawg]

Why don't Yall realize that neither of you are right? Stands had to go when he left and Ray sucks ass. Time to move on and find a new coach, one that the Network will support.
Sorry that's just the world we live in

[Coach34]

At least he DID win a few big games. We don't even HAVE big games anymore. You got what you wanted, he is gone. I hope you are enjoying it.

Had to rebuild. If Ray doesnt get it done- its off to the next guy. I do enjoy watching a team plays balls out and get everything out of their ability. Thats been nice- altho frustrating we have lost a few close games we could have pulled out with a big shot here and there

[ScoobaDawg]

Why don't Yall realize that neither of you are right? Stands had to go when he left and Ray sucks ass. Time to move on and find a new coach, one that the Network will support.
Sorry that's just the world we live in

because Coach has the rod and keeps tossing the bait out and they kept biting.
985

[Liverpooldawg]

These threads always show up on slow days. Just helping him with his hit count.

[Political Hack]

Coaching? Slight lean Ray
Discipline? Ray in a landslide
Recruiting? Stands in landslide to this point

Disagree up through current day.

Defensive coaching, Stans.

Offensive coaching, it's a special fight.

[tcdog70]

Normally that would be true enough. Coaches with any length of a career in one place will have peaks and valleys. The problem with Stans was not that he had a downward trend in results, it was that he had a downward trend in players' respect for the coaching staff. For much of Stansubry's career, Stansbury managed to recruit players that were higher character than the baseball or football players. But the character of his players trended steadily downward and that was a real problem for him by the time he left. As far as I know, Ware, Thomas, and Sword have kept entirely out of trouble since they've been here, so maybe he could have turned it around with them. But he also would have been bringing Gray, who had some red flags to say the least. And there would have been upper classmen on the team that possibly Stansbury wouldn't have been in a good position to discipline. Maybe those players would have been a bad influence on the freshmen, maybe not. Certainly Stewart and Varnado never seemed to be brought down by their teammates, but there are a lot more examples of players that were. It just would have been tough for Stansbury (or any coach in his position) to change the culture with players that he brought in and when he had allowed the culture to degenerate to the place it had.

There's no arguing that Stansbury did a lot for MSU and State fans on the whole should be very appreciative of Stansbury, but what Stricklin did was certainly not awful. It wasn't a no-brainer decision either way. If Stansbury had stayed another year, that would have been fine with me. I certainly think it was a mistake to fire him without having a better grasp on what the replacement options were. But he wasn't entitled to another year.

Do you remember Rhodes kissing the floor at the Hump. Do you remember. Kodi becoming a good SEC player and having a great attitude his Sr Year. How come Stans doesn't get credit for turning these two around. The reason we were successful was Rick took a chance on some talented players that had issues He could have played it safe and signed high character players with no talent and get our ass beat like most State teams before He arrived. I look at this as two different issues.
1. The winningest coach in our history got a bum deal.
2. Rick Ray is a bad coach and he needs to go.

To me these two issues are not entwined . When we are discussing Rick Ray why even mention Stansbury?

[Coach34]

. When we are discussing Rick Ray why even mention Stansbury?

This thread was about Stands- why discuss Rick Ray????

[Bully13]

[QUOTE=Coach34;338122]This thread was about Stands- why discuss Rick Ray????[/QUOTE

because we have digressed X 10 since Stan's departure

[ScoobaDawg]

Do you remember Rhodes kissing the floor at the Hump. Do you remember. Kodi becoming a good SEC player and having a great attitude his Sr Year. How come Stans doesn't get credit for turning these two around. The reason we were successful was Rick took a chance on some talented players that had issues He could have played it safe and signed high character players with no talent and get our ass beat like most State teams before He arrived. I look at this as two different issues.
1. The winningest coach in our history got a bum deal.
2. Rick Ray is a bad coach and he needs to go.

To me these two issues are not entwined . When we are discussing Rick Ray why even mention Stansbury?


Because that wasn't Stans. That was Robert Kirby, which is another key piece why Stans wasn't going to turn it around.
Those talented players had issues off the court and Kirby helped keep them in line for the most part but even that was overrun when Gordon and Sidney did whatever the hell they wanted and were pretty much off limits.

[Coach34]

Because that wasn't Stans. That was Robert Kirby, which is another key piece why Stans wasn't going to turn it around.
Those talented players had issues off the court and Kirby helped keep them in line for the most part but even that was overrun when Gordon and Sidney did whatever the hell they wanted and were pretty much off limits.

exactly

Gotta love when someone close to the team lets out bits of actual info

[mcdawg]

Who said I liked what we currently have on the court? I am actually more likely to spend and watch this team play than I was to spend and watch Sidney cross the court less than 10 times per game while the rest of the team stood around getting beat by teams way worse than them.

That was 1 player, and he was gone. So, you only have this bad team to watch. So, call the Ticket Office and Bulldog Club to buy my tickets. People like you keep bashing Stans, so put your money where your mouth is and spend your valuable money/time. Don't just come on this board and blast - that is easy. Just like MANY people that I know - I am not spending any more of my money/time on men's basketball.

[tcdog70]

Because that wasn't Stans. That was Robert Kirby, which is another key piece why Stans wasn't going to turn it around.
Those talented players had issues off the court and Kirby helped keep them in line for the most part but even that was overrun when Gordon and Sidney did whatever the hell they wanted and were pretty much off limits.


Just a question what did you do to put you "Close to the Team". And why was Jamont and Sidney off limits and Kodi and Rhodes not? And who hired Kirby?

[CottonDog]

We aren't winning now. That's all that matters.