C34's Rick Ray and State-UPig assesment

[Coach34]

I really enjoyed being back in the Hump yesterday with a decent crowd. It was good to see a basketball team representing our school play their ass off again on the floor. Those guys represent us well- regardless of the outcome of ballgames. But that said- let's talk some ball:

The Good:

1. We play hard and leave everything on the floor.

2. We are a good defensive team- and close to being a VERY GOOD defensive team. We probably get the absolute most out of our talent defensively. We have lapses as all teams do. I also wish we trapped a little more- but overall- we really remind me alot of Richard Williams teams in that we arent fancy- but we do what we do well. We force teams to spend alot of shot clock trying to get a decent shot.

3. There is nothing wrong with our offense when we have Roq and Ware in the ballgame at the same time. Not a damn thing. They are both talented enough to do things that allows the rest of our guys to make some plays. Our offense has actually looked really good as of late when those two stay out of foul trouble or healthy. Houston looks good and is athletic. He is fine within the offense. The offense is even ok with Bloodman at PG as long as Roq and Ware are in the game.

4. Ray did a helluva job yesterday juggling foul trouble down the stretch. Situational subbing was outstanding as well. Really good job by the staff yesterday. I thought he might have left Roq on the bench 2 minutes too long- but that's a difference of opinion. Had he brought him back sooner and he fouled out- we would have been screwed.

5. We played a much better basketball team than us yesterday and damn near pulled it off- we simply dont have enough offensive firepower to get over the hump at crunch time.

The Bad:

1. We run the same damn OOB play every time. I know that Ray knows more OOB plays. So we are either too stupid to effectively run more of them and Ray gave up trying to teach them- OR- he just simply wants to get the ball inbounds and is not looking to get a cheap basket from time to time.

2. Our offense looks like shit when Ware and Roq are out of the game. One is bad enough- but both of them at the same time is a killer. Endo is Wesley Morgan from the Stands Era. Thats all he is ever going to be. A 7 minute per game guy to give you effort and defense. He is George Brooks. I like Black- and he is actually fairly smart for a Freshman- but he has a long way to go offensively. He has to work hard this offseason. We need a post scoring recruit ready to play for the 2017 season.

3. We dont handle the ball well outside of the PG's and Chicken. We look like nervous little kids when we get the ball. We need better players. Period. And yes- thats on Ray. This is one thing that makes our offense look so bad- we dont have many people that can make a play. Bloodman cant shoot and teams backs off to prevent penetration. Daniels has talent but is not very smart. He is Good Daniels and Bad Daniels. Fred is a spot shooter and defender- not much more. Endo and Black are scared to death to get the ball. Houston wants the ball all the time and gets out of control.

4. That said- i think Ray could do a better job of using what we do have offensively better. There should be a Plan B when we dont have Ware and Roq in there. Or a better option when one of them is out. Ray is an offensive genius by an means- but certainly more can be done than what we are doing. You cant just say "we dont have the talent yet" and accept that. Figure out what you do have when your top 3 guys are on the bench- and give that other group a chance to be successful.

5. We are stupid. We do things that coaches cant really teach. Things college age people should know.

Moving Forward:

Ray is going to get another year- and with Zuppardo added to this team plus recruits- that team will be an NIT team at worst. Endo wont hardly even see the floor once Zuppardo starts getting minutes. So that means Ray is going to get a 5th year also and hopefully his recruiting that looks to be an upgrade coming in the next two seasons is ready to pay off then. That's what its going to come down to- we are coached well enough to win- can he get better players on campus and can they stay healthy? That will tell the tale.

[SDDawg]

But Stans!!! **

[coastdoglover]

Making the NIT is now your goal. Man, we won 20 games and went to the NIT and you applauded us for making a change. Times have really changed and now Zuppardo, who is at best a D-2 player is going to turn us around. Keep smoking that stuff, it makes everything good. And by the way, your buddy Richard Williams is going to practices now and helping and we still cant inbound the ball or run an offense. Funny how the players are now all stupid and the coach is a genius, wish we had all your posts from the Sixpack to compare. What a crock!



I really enjoyed being back in the Hump yesterday with a decent crowd. It was good to see a basketball team representing our school play their ass off again on the floor. Those guys represent us well- regardless of the outcome of ballgames. But that said- let's talk some ball:

The Good:

1. We play hard and leave everything on the floor.

2. We are a good defensive team- and close to being a VERY GOOD defensive team. We probably get the absolute most out of our talent defensively. We have lapses as all teams do. I also wish we trapped a little more- but overall- we really remind me alot of Richard Williams teams in that we arent fancy- but we do what we do well. We force teams to spend alot of shot clock trying to get a decent shot.

3. There is nothing wrong with our offense when we have Roq and Ware in the ballgame at the same time. Not a damn thing. They are both talented enough to do things that allows the rest of our guys to make some plays. Our offense has actually looked really good as of late when those two stay out of foul trouble or healthy. Houston looks good and is athletic. He is fine within the offense. The offense is even ok with Bloodman at PG as long as Roq and Ware are in the game.

4. Ray did a helluva job yesterday juggling foul trouble down the stretch. Situational subbing was outstanding as well. Really good job by the staff yesterday. I thought he might have left Roq on the bench 2 minutes too long- but that's a difference of opinion. Had he brought him back sooner and he fouled out- we would have been screwed.

5. We played a much better basketball team than us yesterday and damn near pulled it off- we simply dont have enough offensive firepower to get over the hump at crunch time.

The Bad:

1. We run the same damn OOB play every time. I know that Ray knows more OOB plays. So we are either too stupid to effectively run more of them and Ray gave up trying to teach them- OR- he just simply wants to get the ball inbounds and is not looking to get a cheap basket from time to time.

2. Our offense looks like shit when Ware and Roq are out of the game. One is bad enough- but both of them at the same time is a killer. Endo is Wesley Morgan from the Stands Era. Thats all he is ever going to be. A 7 minute per game guy to give you effort and defense. He is George Brooks. I like Black- and he is actually fairly smart for a Freshman- but he has a long way to go offensively. He has to work hard this offseason. We need a post scoring recruit ready to play for the 2017 season.

3. We dont handle the ball well outside of the PG's and Chicken. We look like nervous little kids when we get the ball. We need better players. Period. And yes- thats on Ray. This is one thing that makes our offense look so bad- we dont have many people that can make a play. Bloodman cant shoot and teams backs off to prevent penetration. Daniels has talent but is not very smart. He is Good Daniels and Bad Daniels. Fred is a spot shooter and defender- not much more. Endo and Black are scared to death to get the ball. Houston wants the ball all the time and gets out of control.

4. That said- i think Ray could do a better job of using what we do have offensively better. There should be a Plan B when we dont have Ware and Roq in there. Or a better option when one of them is out. Ray is an offensive genius by an means- but certainly more can be done than what we are doing. You cant just say "we dont have the talent yet" and accept that. Figure out what you do have when your top 3 guys are on the bench- and give that other group a chance to be successful.

5. We are stupid. We do things that coaches cant really teach. Things college age people should know.

Moving Forward:

Ray is going to get another year- and with Zuppardo added to this team plus recruits- that team will be an NIT team at worst. Endo wont hardly even see the floor once Zuppardo starts getting minutes. So that means Ray is going to get a 5th year also and hopefully his recruiting that looks to be an upgrade coming in the next two seasons is ready to pay off then. That's what its going to come down to- we are coached well enough to win- can he get better players on campus and can they stay healthy? That will tell the tale.

[dawgs]

Ray is going to get another year- and with Zuppardo added to this team plus recruits- that team will be an NIT team at best.


Fixed it for you

[Saltydog]

with Roq and Ware in the game at the same time? Uh, yes there is. We still don't have anyone that can knock down the perimeter shot with any regularity, WHATSOEVER!

[Coach34]

with Roq and Ware in the game at the same time? Uh, yes there is. We still don't have anyone that knock down the perimeter shot with any regularity, WHATSOEVER!

Thats not the offense we run at fault- that's lack of talent. And I agree with you. We don't have anybody confident in to make an open 3

[Coach34]

Dawggeezer- nowhere in my post in any way, shape, or form did I say the NIT was my goal or should be the program's goal.

[chef dixon]

My favorite thought that's been mentioned multiple times is that Zuppardo is some sort of game changer. You guys need to let that thought go.

[Saltydog]

nt

[msstate7]

My favorite thought that's been mentioned multiple times is that Zuppardo is some sort of game changer. You guys need to let that thought go.

He fills a need. He hit 43.3% from 3's in juco. At his height, he'll get plenty of open looks

[Coach34]

If we have Zuppardo who can hit 3's and Ware making 15 FT jump shots- that Lane will get more open for Sword to penetrate

[Saltydog]

in I thought there was no way this kid would ever contribute or play in the SEC but he has proved me wrong and I've enjoyed watching him get better........He worked hard and made the most of the talent he had..........

[msstate7]

in I thought there was no way this kid would ever contribute or play in the SEC but he has proved me wrong and I've enjoyed watching him get better........He worked hard and made the most of the talent he had..........

Ray's done a good job with him. If Ray can do just as good a job with black and Houston, they could be good to really good

[chef dixon]

And we will still turn the ball over 20 times per game.

[mic]

- Defense...
Yes we do play good defense and play hard which is even more impressive when you consider we have no true big man for shot blocking.. That's a huge deal.. Just remember a few years back.. How many times did guards blow by our guards only to have JV in the middle to turn them back.. A lot easier to play defense when you know you have that guy to bail you out.
Black may not ever be a 15 point a game scorer but I think he could be a really good defender. Brandon Vincent type.. Rebounds and will have size and athletic ability to guard the 4 or if a team has a big 3.
I have a little more hope for Endo than C34 does.. If everyone remembers Vernado he was a non factor on offense early in his career but devolved into a pretty offensive option. Not saying Endo will be anywhere close to Big Swat but if get some guys around him all he has to do is patrol the middle defend and get boards..

Offense...
It can be good at times.. And can be down right terrible at times.
I have no clue why any team wouldn't play a zone against us. Ark was man to man most of first half and then made the adjustment to zone in 2nd and we struggled.
Not having IJ hurt really bad yesterday. But we handled that press very good. The majority of the TO's were in front court and a lot were just careless or stupid plays.
We have to get a 2, 3, or 4 that can extend the defense and knock down shots. And let's all pump the brakes a little on Zup being that guy.. I hope he is but Juco basketball isn't even close to be a measuring stick when it comes to SEC play.
C34 said we need either Rocq or Ware in the game at al times. I would say Ware or Sword .
And I would even say outside of IJ we handle the ball bad.. Sword can get carless a lot with the ball off the dribble when he drives or tries to create his shot.. But he is a warrior .. He has gotten beaten up more than any player I can remember thru almost 3 years.. He will get to the rim. Just wished he could have knocked down more free throws and that game may have been different. If we had a 2 or 3 that could knock down shots on a regular basis his numbers would have even been better.
Gavin has a smooth shot for a big guy.mhe can knock down this 15 footers with ease. He should get more touches and touch the ball every rip down but when they pack the zone in and when he gets the ball he sees 2 sometimes 3 guys he is limited. We don't do a good job with the inside back outside and let Gabin reestablish post position either. Because we don't have the guards to okay this..
Daniels and Fred are warm and very cold with their outside shooting. I wish Fred would be more aggressive and take the ball to the rim more.
It's not good when ur best pure shooter is ur PG. If IJ had that 2 or 3 that could score from the outside to play off of his offensive numbers would increase because he would get more open looks. He isn't going to be able to drive the middle of the lane or penitrate on a regular basis and draw fouls because he is undersized.
We have basically one player , Sword , the next would be IJ when the shot clock is running down we can go to and try and make something happened. That's a big deal.. Just look at OM for example.. They have 3...
OOB plays , yes they are bad and I don't understand why.. That's on the coaching staff...

I don't care if RR is here next year or not, he may or may not be the guy, but we will be better next year. Basketball isn't like football or baseball where kids have to be here 3 years before they leave and it takes a while for impact players to make a huge difference. Only have to have 8 or 9 players out of the 15 that really have to contribute .. It can get turned around quick but it can also go south just as fast. I wish we could get a transfer or 2 in the off season or after next year.. If you get the right impact guy they can make a huge difference..

[mcdawg]

Making the NIT is now your goal. Man, we won 20 games and went to the NIT and you applauded us for making a change. Times have really changed and now Zuppardo, who is at best a D-2 player is going to turn us around. Keep smoking that stuff, it makes everything good. And by the way, your buddy Richard Williams is going to practices now and helping and we still cant inbound the ball or run an offense. Funny how the players are now all stupid and the coach is a genius, wish we had all your posts from the Sixpack to compare. What a crock!

Well said about C34's review of the coaches/players. Now our coach is good but the players are stupid - where Stans was stupid and our players were not. All I know is the majority of State fans do not care about men's basketball anymore. I don't dislike Coach Ray - I just think our program is now irrelevant and people defend being below average where they use to bitch about losing in the NCAA tourney. At least we had the players to get us there, and each game during the year meant something. Why would I spend hours to go watch a game that means nothing? Why would I even bother to watch it on tv? (I turned it on and suffered thru 2 turnovers and no shots - so I found something productive to do.)

Seriously, at least we have our women's basketball team. I love the talent and really enjoy the coach's post game interviews - Praise the Lord and Go Dawgs!

[mic]

Well said about C34's review of the coaches/players. Now our coach is good but the players are stupid - where Stans was stupid and our players were not. All I know is the majority of State fans do not care about men's basketball anymore. I don't dislike Coach Ray - I just think our program is now irrelevant and people defend being below average where they use to bitch about losing in the NCAA tourney. At least we had the players to get us there, and each game during the year meant something. Why would I spend hours to go watch a game that means nothing? Why would I even bother to watch it on tv? (I turned it on and suffered thru 2 turnovers and no shots - so I found something productive to do.)

Seriously, at least we have our women's basketball team. I love the talent and really enjoy the coach's post game interviews - Praise the Lord and Go Dawgs!

So I guess you didn't watch football the last couple years when Jackie was here or the 5 that Croom was here. I guess you don't watch the first 2 rough years of Cohen and last year of Polk..
Then don't watch and don't show back up or watch when we are good again..

[RougeDawg]

And we will still turn the ball over 20 times per game.

Ding ding.... We have a winner!!! We turn the ball over too much to win, period. Doesn't matter who we have on our roster. Who's fault is it these guys turn it over 15-20 times a game? Why has that been a common stay the past 3 seasons? The players have changed and/or gotten more experienced, so there really is only one common denominator. Anyone care to take a wild guess as to who is responsible for our schoolyard type play for the majority of games? Nothing has changed there in 3 years. We are out of control, lost and appear to be unprepared. We just hope the other team will turn it over enough times to even it out and give us a chance. This argument is as dead as the previous coach dead horse argument. Our lack of skills and in game play has not changed in 3 Years, the players have simple gotten marginally better because they've played in games and evolved in the SEC.

[Liverpooldawg]

It's amazing how low your standards have become 34. You are talking up what just a couple of years ago would have had you warming up the tar and plucking the chickens.

[Dawg61]

There's three things mainly that are wrong with our team.

1. Our entire team is basketball retarded. Not calling them dumb off the court during the rest of their day but they are retarded on the court. Not even dumb. Straight mentally handicapped. ALL OF THEM.

2. The lack of what I deem as "skill" by every single player except Ready and Zuppardo in three areas, shooting, dribbling and passing.

3. Our coach does not have any ability to teach or develop the three skills that the entire team minus Ready and Zupp lack. He can't teach or develop shooting, passing and dribbling. If you can't do those three skills well as a team you'll always suck. That's like totally sucking at pitching, hitting and defense in baseball.

[TheDogFather]

It's amazing how low your standards have become 34. You are talking up what just a couple of years ago would have had you warming up the tar and plucking the chickens.

He's put way too much on the line to be wrong about Ricky Ray. He's basically become a politician.

[Irondawg]

our offense has problems no matter who is in there if you really break down what we are doing. It "looks" better with Roc and Ware in there b/c Ware can hit the 15 footer and Roc makes a lot of unusual plays. But that doesn't mean the offense is good.

Likewise Ready is a good point guard when compared to watching the offense with Bloodman, but the reality is that Ready is an average D1 PG.

Looking at just the players we have, here are our main problems as I see them:

1) We don't run much design sets to get a certain players a certain shot at a certain place on the floor. We are mostly helter skelter and occassionally something good happens. To be honest, we ran more designed plays with Stans, but at it's core, i don't see a ton of difference in what we are trying to do.

2) As mentioned ad naseum our players for the most part have a terrible basketball IQ or feel for the game. Meaning they don't natural rotate to open spots on the floor as plays develop and such. Instead we catch balls with our feet out of bounds, etc.

3) We are terrible in passing and ballhandling as a unit. Ready and Sword are really the only two that are capable of doing anything off the dribble. None of our guys are great passers. Watch some of the top teams and compare the speed at which they move the ball in their offense compared to ours. It's night and day.

No matter who the coach is we are not going to be a consistent offensive team b/c of the lack of natural offensive talent. However we don't do much to maximize what we do have. Run a pick and roll with Chicken and Ware if teams are dumb enough to play us man, sticking Ready/Thomas/Daniels on the wing for the potential open 3. We've seen a lot more man this year than I would have ever expected. Teams should zone trap us all day long.

[starkvegasdawg]

Two things have plagued MSU basketball for years regardless of the coach...turnovers and inconsistency at the line. I haven't looked it up but I bet if you went back to the 1990's to today we average 15-20 TO's a game. I distinctly remember watching them back when I was in school and expecting 20 turnovers a game. And as a team we've never seemingly been reliable at the stripe. Yes, we've had players like D. Wilson that were automatic but as a team, no. That seems to have gotten worse lately. I know part of that is the modern player is more concerned with making sport center top 10 with a spectacular dunk than being an 85% FT shooter.

For the record I'm not a stans defender or a Ray supporter. I just want MSU to win in every sport they play. I remember camping out before the Arkansas game in the freezing ass cold to make sure I got a seat. I remember what the hump used to be like. I remember when it was voted one of the most hostile environments to have to play at. I remember when Duke had no desire to schedule a home and home. I want that back. I don't care who's wearing the suit on the sideline. I don't think we would have returned to that with Stansbury. I'm not sure we can get there with Ray.

[Coach34]

1) We don't run much design sets to get a certain players a certain shot at a certain place on the floor. We are mostly helter skelter and occassionally something good happens. To be honest, we ran more designed plays with Stans, but at it's core, i don't see a ton of difference in what we are trying to do..

I think we are too dumb to do much more after watching us. True Freshman, Endo, Daniels, Roq- they look lost half the time. Roq reacts very well- thinking? Not so much.

And has been said- we just find ways to turn it over. Saturday- we worked the ball around in the 2nd half and Daniels had a wide open look for a 3-ball from the corner- but he passed on it because he missed one earlier. We swing it back around- Daniels cuts back thru the zone to the other side- pass it to him again- he takes his eye off of it and it goes out of bounds- turnover.

[Tbonewannabe]

Ding ding.... We have a winner!!! We turn the ball over too much to win, period. Doesn't matter who we have on our roster. Who's fault is it these guys turn it over 15-20 times a game? Why has that been a common stay the past 3 seasons? The players have changed and/or gotten more experienced, so there really is only one common denominator. Anyone care to take a wild guess as to who is responsible for our schoolyard type play for the majority of games? Nothing has changed there in 3 years. We are out of control, lost and appear to be unprepared. We just hope the other team will turn it over enough times to even it out and give us a chance. This argument is as dead as the previous coach dead horse argument. Our lack of skills and in game play has not changed in 3 Years, the players have simple gotten marginally better because they've played in games and evolved in the SEC.

I am not defending Ray but we have always struggled with turnovers. Richard Williams and Stans both had teams that had 20 turnovers more often than not. I think it is just basketball in the South. The women's team is by far more fundamentally sound.