Close losses

[msstate7]

We've now lost 6 of our 9 sec losses by 6 or less and held 2nd half leads in all of them. There still losses, but I see improvement.

I really believe tookie and weatherspoon are gonna help us win these games next season. Tookie > bloodman. Weatherspoon will be a great compliment player to sword. These 2 should help us with our ball handling/driving issues.

[DudyDawg]

I agree, compared to the shit show in December (granted, we were hurt), this is very good. Like Ive said, I'm not sold on Ray being a long term solution, but I'm not sold he isn't. Trying my best to give him a fair shake. Clearly we've progressed, but we need to get over that last hurdle of winning these games sometimes before we can really move forward. Can't afford those long cold spells

[Dawg61]

We have no clue how to finish games. That's on Ray.

[msstate7]

I agree, compared to the shit show in December (granted, we were hurt), this is very good. Like Ive said, I'm not sold on Ray being a long term solution, but I'm not sold he isn't. Trying my best to give him a fair shake. Clearly we've progressed, but we need to get over that last hurdle of winning these games sometimes before we can really move forward. Can't afford those long cold spells

Guard play. It's really bad at times. If Ray wants to be here after next season, tookie and weatherspoon have to deliver

[codeDawg]

We are really racking up the participation trophies. Who gets the "most improved" ribbon in this one?

[engie]

Yep -- what we really need to do is fire coaches for showing drastic improvement**

[DudyDawg]

Guard play. It's really bad at times. If Ray wants to be here after next season, tookie and weatherspoon have to deliver

Don't know enough about them, but he does need personnel to get better. If they can be better than bloodman, Black can keep getting better etc, then its going to completely depend on Ray on what we do.

[Acid mouth]

Yep -- what we really need to do is fire coaches for showing drastic improvement**

I was thinking more along the lines of a substantial pay increase and a contract extension. The offense will fix itself.

[Rayburn8]

We lack good bench players. We struggle on offense when the bench comes in. We have good starters but past that there is to drastic a drop off from starters to bench.

[Tbonewannabe]

We lack good bench players. We struggle on offense when the bench comes in. We have good starters but past that there is to drastic a drop off from starters to bench.

I haven't watched a lot but our offense under Ray looks the same to me as it did under Stans. Pass it around the 3 point line and jack it. There isn't very much driving or even picks. It doesn't help that sitting at home I think I am about 4th on the team in assists. Most games we have less assists than technical fouls.**

[DudyDawg]

I haven't watched a lot but our offense under Ray looks the same to me as it did under Stans. Pass it around the 3 point line and jack it. There isn't very much driving or even picks. It doesn't help that sitting at home I think I am about 4th on the team in assists. Most games we have less assists than technical fouls.**

Problem is that when we "set" picks, it's either a going through the motion and stand in the way one, or we set it and don't make a good read coming off it. We rarely curl one or fade one at the right time. I've also only seen us skip the zone like twice this year. Offense definitely needs some real work

[Rayburn8]

A lot of that is PG play, Ready is serviceable on offense. But dear god Bloodman is aweful. We will have a much better bench next year just because of Tookie. It all starts at the PG position.

[msstate7]

A lot of that is PG play, Ready is serviceable on offense. But dear god Bloodman is aweful. We will have a much better bench next year just because of Tookie. It all starts at the PG position.

Should we think about going to sword at the point next season? I just think this lineup could be our best...

Sword
Weatherspoon
Daniels/fred/Houston (winner)
Black/zuppardo (winner)
Ware

Or we could go...

Ready
Sword
weatherspoon
Black/zuppardo
Ware

Either way, I want weatherspoon and sword together bc they can both create by themselves

[TheDogFather]

Yep -- what we really need to do is fire coaches for showing drastic improvement**

Or depend on kids who haven't set foot on campus to transform us into an elite NIT team.

[DudyDawg]

Should we think about going to sword at the point next season? I just think this lineup could be our best...

Sword
Weatherspoon
Daniels/fred/Houston (winner)
Black/zuppardo (winner)
Ware

Or we could go...

Ready
Sword
weatherspoon
Black/zuppardo
Ware

Either way, I want weatherspoon and sword together bc they can both create by themselves

Not sure sword can run the O like a point. He's more a slasher to score than a guy who will create if we put it on him to do so. I like him way more at the 2

[engie]

Or depend on kids who haven't set foot on campus to transform us into an elite NIT team.

Yeah -- because your boy was nevAr dependent on immediate help for over a decade**

[preachermatt83]

Or depend on kids who haven't set foot on campus to transform us into an elite NIT team.

AMEN!!!!

[klong-dog]

[QUOTE=msstate7;336023]Should we think about going to sword at the point next season? I just think this lineup could be our best...

Sword
Weatherspoon
Daniels/fred/Houston (winner)
Black/zuppardo (winner)
Ware


Lord no. Sword is so turnover prone as it is, just at the 2.

[Dawg61]

Sword
Thomas
Daniels
Zuppardo
Ware

Is our best five but it leaves us weak at the PG position still. We have been in PG hell since Bost left. Maybe Zuppardo is a closet 6'8 PG.**

[tcdog70]

Yeah -- because your boy was nevAr dependent on immediate help for over a decade**

Who the **** was talking about Stans - you can't help being a DICK

[msstate7]

Sword
Thomas
Daniels
Zuppardo
Ware

Is our best five but it leaves us weak at the PG position still. We have been in PG hell since Bost left. Maybe Zuppardo is a closet 6'8 PG.**

I really think weatherspoon cracks the starting 5 bc he can do 2 things we need: handle the ball and score on his own

I'd be thrilled if zuppardo can rebound, play d, and be a good passing big man.

[engie]

I really think weatherspoon cracks the starting 5 bc he can do 2 things we need: handle the ball and score on his own

I'd be thrilled if zuppardo can rebound, play d, and be a good passing big man.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhFZzEbzGRA

[mic]

Chicken ISNT going to play the Point..
We have a good SEC Player at the Point We need depth there
A shooting guard either a 2 or 3 that can extend and shoot teams out of a zone
Depth at the 4
Basically depth depth depth..
A transfer or 2 wouldn't hurt...

If Houston can improve his offensive shooting from 15+ and take care of the ball better he is going to be really good..
One of the best pure athletes we have had in a while..

[msstate7]

http://s22.postimg.org/56z0asav5/image.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

I saw the 3 pt shooting so I looked up his juco stats. 43.3% shooting from 3 is solid. 61.7% from the field.

Ok, I want some scoring from this kid too

[Dawg61]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhFZzEbzGRA

Well this is promising. He's our best offensive player. Is he a 3 or a stretch 4 though? He's going to get abused on the boards as a 4 but can really stretch a defense with that shooting stroke. We have a shorter Adam Morrison.

[TheDogFather]

Yeah -- because your boy was nevAr dependent on immediate help for over a decade**

it wasn't a comment directed at Ray or Stansbury. you missed the point in an attempt to resurrect the Stansbury argument.

You have a distorted view of my criticism toward Rick Ray. No need to compare him to anyone to see his ineptitude.

[msstate7]

Well this is promising. He's our best offensive player. Is he a 3 or a stretch 4 though? He's going to get abused on the boards as a 4 but can really stretch a defense with that shooting stroke. We have a shorter Adam Morrison.

I can see sword/ready/weatherspoon driving and kicking it out to this kid.

[thunderclap]

If you can't the see the improvement you're blind. (not this shit again)

[whosyourdawgy]

We just have to quit making bonehead turnovers and we can win some games. The biggest one last night among the many bonehead ones was when we had a chance to tie or take the lead and Sword tried to penetrate and lost it which I was actually ok with. Ball on the floor and Gavin comes up with it at mid court and fires a good pass to Roq on the left side of the lane. All he has to do is catch the damn ball and take a smaller guy in and score. Well he tries to catch a pass with one freaking hand and gets it stolen. If he just catches that damn ball we more than likely tie it up. He has to secure that catch before he can make a move. Roq can be very good but he does the dumbest shit sometimes. It isn't just him. Fred Thomas does stupid shot all the time too. How many times does he jump in the air with no where to pass the ball? And last nigh Travis couldn't catch a ball. This team is just frustrating to watch. That "this team makes me drink" logo needs to be theirs.

But we have been much better since sword got healthy. Another point about next season and Tookie. He better be ready for a to of playing time cause it is obvious that IJ can't make it thru a season without missing games. He and Roquez get hurt every game it seems.

[msstate7]

We just have to quit making bonehead turnovers and we can win some games. The biggest one last night among the many bonehead ones was when we had a chance to tie or take the lead and Sword tried to penetrate and lost it which I was actually ok with. Ball on the floor and Gavin comes up with it at mid court and fires a good pass to Roq on the left side of the lane. All he has to do is catch the damn ball and take a smaller guy in and score. Well he tries to catch a pass with one freaking hand and gets it stolen. If he just catches that damn ball we more than likely tie it up. He has to secure that catch before he can make a move. Roq can be very good but he does the dumbest shit sometimes. It isn't just him. Fred Thomas does stupid shot all the time too. How many times does he jump in the air with no where to pass the ball? And last nigh Travis couldn't catch a ball. This team is just frustrating to watch. That "this team makes me drink" logo needs to be theirs.

But we have been much better since sword got healthy. Another point about next season and Tookie. He better be ready for a to of playing time cause it is obvious that IJ can't make it thru a season without missing games. He and Roquez get hurt every game it seems.

Weatherspoon can supposedly play the point also if needed

[dawgs]

If you can't the see the improvement you're blind. (not this shit again)

It's not that we can't see improvement, it's that with this many upperclassmen, the improvement hasn't been enough to expect anything more than maybe a NIT run next season and then a step back again when we lose a bunch of seniors.

[msstate7]

It's not that we can't see improvement, it's that with this many upperclassmen, the improvement hasn't been enough to expect anything more than maybe a NIT run next season and then a step back again when we lose a bunch of seniors.

While we will lose fred, sword, and ware, I believe we'll be much more talented with a core of weatherspoon, simonds, and hicks. Granted 2 of them will be freshmen, but talented

[engie]

While we will lose fred, sword, and ware, I believe we'll be much more talented with a core of weatherspoon, simonds, and hicks. Granted 2 of them will be freshmen, but talented

We relied pretty heavily on freshmen and transfers pretty constantly ever since the road warriors if we're being honest with ourselves....

[dawgs]

While we will lose fred, sword, and ware, I believe we'll be much more talented with a core of weatherspoon, simonds, and hicks. Granted 2 of them will be freshmen, but talented

Freshmen that aren't superstar recruits are wild cards at best to be able to be primary options on the team as freshmen. Even if they start strong, they tend to wear down at the end of the season. So I wouldn't expect a tourney run in 2016-2017. So now we are looking at 2017-2018 for our best case 1st realistic expectation to maybe make the tourney, and that's assuming guys pan out as well as some of y'all seem to already accept them to be.

Well at least my winter TV viewing schedule will remain open. My fiance definitely enjoys that I don't have appointment TV twice a week.

[drunkernhelldawg]

Well at least my winter TV viewing schedule will remain open. My fiance definitely enjoys that I don't have appointment TV twice a week.

You're giving her false hope. Soon as we're making a tourney run, she'll say, "You're not the dawgs I used to know."

[maroonmania]

While we will lose fred, sword, and ware, I believe we'll be much more talented with a core of weatherspoon, simonds, and hicks. Granted 2 of them will be freshmen, but talented

We will also lose Daniels.

[msstate7]

We will also lose Daniels.

To tell the truth, out of these 4 players, I only consider ware and sword a big loss. Daniels and fred can't be counted on at all. You're right though...

[RougeDawg]

I keep seeing people talk About how much improvement RR has shown this year. Logic onLy suggests that there was only one direction for our team to go, based on the point we were starting the year. We couldn't get any shittier or go the other direction unless we pulled the plug on the entire program. When you are at the absolute bottom you can either get better or quit altogether. That's where we were, but everyone acts like RR is some great coach for this season of moral victories with a team full of 3 year guys. If we were all freshman and sophomore with these close losses RR may get a little credit. Plus we are the beneficiary of a much shittier SEC than it was the last decade or two.

I see nothing improved except experience which is a given after players have 2 and a half years under their belt. That is the only reason we are even in some of these games. Our juniors still make boneheaded freshman mistakes, but their experience allows them to move past them. I realistically see 1 more potential win against Mizzou. That's 4,3 & 6 SEC Wins in his 3 seasons, 6 being with a group of upperclassmen. If this is improvement for people on here, then the bar and expectations have been dropped so low for Mississippi State basketball, we will be irrelevant the next 2 decades.

[msstate7]

I keep seeing people talk About how much improvement RR has shown this year. Logic onLy suggests that there was only one direction for our team to go, based on the point we were starting the year. We couldn't get any shittier or go the other direction unless we pulled the plug on the entire program. When you are at the absolute bottom you can either get better or quit altogether. That's where we were, but everyone acts like RR is some great coach for this season of moral victories with a team full of 3 year guys. If we were all freshman and sophomore with these close losses RR may get a little credit. Plus we are the beneficiary of a much shittier SEC than it was the last decade or two.

I see nothing improved except experience which is a given after players have 2 and a half years under their belt. That is the only reason we are even in some of these games. Our juniors still make boneheaded freshman mistakes, but their experience allows them to move past them. I realistically see 1 more potential win against Mizzou. That's 4,3 & 6 SEC Wins in his 3 seasons, 6 being with a group of upperclassmen. If this is improvement for people on here, then the bar and expectations have been dropped so low for Mississippi State basketball, we will be irrelevant the next 2 decades.

Dude... NO ONE has said ray is a great coach!

You seem to get really angry just bc of a VERY FEW of us don't want rip ray like 90% of our fanbase do. I don't think ANYONE is sold on ray. A FEW of us see the obvious improvement in our team and the recruiting, so we'd like to let ray get his final year.

Relax, if Ray fails next season, he's gone. If he gets us to postseason, he'll be back though

[shannondawg]

For his sake, I hope Weatherspoon has broad shoulders , because that freshman has to carry a lot of you poster's expectations.

Seems like for the many many years I have been a dog, we all have put undue expectations on freshmen coming end and creating miracles.

[msstate7]

For his sake, I hope Weatherspoon has broad shoulders , because that freshman has to carry a lot of you poster's expectations.

Seems like for the many many years I have been a dog, we all have put undue expectations on freshmen coming end and creating miracles.

I expect 8-10 pts game, good ball handling, and an assist or 2.

[engie]

For his sake, I hope Weatherspoon has broad shoulders , because that freshman has to carry a lot of you poster's expectations.

Seems like for the many many years I have been a dog, we all have put undue expectations on freshmen coming end and creating miracles.

Weatherspoon is primarily a 2. Which puts him in a traffic jam along with Sword and Thomas in year 1. He won't be counted on to carry all that much weight at first. No more(and probably less) than Tookie who will have to fill the Bloodman role and then some unless we slide Weatherspoon/Sword over to PG some.

The ones that are going to have to carry a heavier load are Black and/or Zuppardo and/or Houston. Got to replace Roq, and I'd love to do this with Black and allow Zuppardo to play the 3 some, getting him more looks from the perimeter as a bit of a matchup nightmare. Houston and Black are key to what we'll be capable of in another one.

[dawgs]

I keep seeing people talk About how much improvement RR has shown this year. Logic onLy suggests that there was only one direction for our team to go, based on the point we were starting the year. We couldn't get any shittier or go the other direction unless we pulled the plug on the entire program. When you are at the absolute bottom you can either get better or quit altogether. That's where we were, but everyone acts like RR is some great coach for this season of moral victories with a team full of 3 year guys. If we were all freshman and sophomore with these close losses RR may get a little credit. Plus we are the beneficiary of a much shittier SEC than it was the last decade or two.

I see nothing improved except experience which is a given after players have 2 and a half years under their belt. That is the only reason we are even in some of these games. Our juniors still make boneheaded freshman mistakes, but their experience allows them to move past them. I realistically see 1 more potential win against Mizzou. That's 4,3 & 6 SEC Wins in his 3 seasons, 6 being with a group of upperclassmen. If this is improvement for people on here, then the bar and expectations have been dropped so low for Mississippi State basketball, we will be irrelevant the next 2 decades.

Amen

[dawgs]

Dude... NO ONE has said ray is a great coach!

You seem to get really angry just bc of a VERY FEW of us don't want rip ray like 90% of our fanbase do. I don't think ANYONE is sold on ray. A FEW of us see the obvious improvement in our team and the recruiting, so we'd like to let ray get his final year.

Relax, if Ray fails next season, he's gone. If he gets us to postseason, he'll be back though

We just want to WIN and we don't think ray is the one to get us there despite some improvement (largely due to experience) and see next season as an opportunity for a new HC to hopefully start off his tenure running instead of rebuilding.

[Dawg61]

We just want to WIN and we don't think ray is the one to get us there despite some improvement (largely due to experience) and see next season as an opportunity for a new HC to hopefully start off his tenure running instead of rebuilding.

I agree it's a mistake by SS to not set the next guy up the best he can which means hiring him this year. What Ray is weak at Ray will always be weak at. Offense. Plain and simple. We can not win consistently enough with "the offense will take care of itself". We are a very poorly skilled team that has a collective basketball IQ of asparagus with no hope on the horizon that anybody on staff can develop them.

[fishwater99]

We need an multiple outside threats. We don't have one now and we won't have but one next year.
Teams will zone us until we show that we can score from behind the arc.

[CottonDog]

Losers "improve" and "play hard." Winners win. What would you call us?

[maroonmania]

I agree it's a mistake by SS to not set the next guy up the best he can which means hiring him this year. What Ray is weak at Ray will always be weak at. Offense. Plain and simple. We can not win consistently enough with "the offense will take care of itself". We are a very poorly skilled team that has a collective basketball IQ of asparagus with no hope on the horizon that anybody on staff can develop them.

Stans was weak on offense as well, the difference is Stans recruited his way out of the offensive abyss by getting enough raw offensive talent that we could be a decent scoring team without a good offensive scheme. And I'm only dragging up a Stans reference to make the comparison that there are a lot of coaches with flaws out there that cover them up with good to excellent recruiting. Ray hasn't been able to do that. We would not have stayed this bad this long under Stans simply because he would have recruited his way out of the problem. And Ray is just not a good enough coach to make up the difference when he is playing teams with significantly more basketball talent on the roster than he has. We can hang with more talented teams for a while but we can't make the plays we have to make in crunch time to actually win.

[msstate7]

Stans was weak on offense as well, the difference is Stans recruited his way out of the offensive abyss by getting enough raw offensive talent that we could be a decent scoring team without a good offensive scheme. And I'm only dragging up a Stans reference to make the comparison that there are a lot of coaches with flaws out there that cover them up with good to excellent recruiting. Ray hasn't been able to do that. We would not have stayed this bad this long under Stans simply because he would have recruited his way out of the problem. And Ray is just not a good enough coach to make up the difference when he is playing teams with significantly more basketball talent on the roster than he has. We can hang with more talented teams for a while but we can't make the plays we have to make in crunch time to actually win.

If teams have significantly more talent than us, but we're hanging in games till the end is that coaching that allows us to compete? Just curious bc everyone seems to think we've got significantly inferior talent and coaching, yet we're close in pretty much all our games

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

Losers "improve" and "play hard." Winners win. What would you call us?

What? If we were currently an NIT team this season I think most people would be happy with the improvement. I would be. Nothing wrong with showing improvement.

[msstate7]

What? If we were currently an NIT team this season I think most people would be happy with the improvement. I would be. Nothing wrong with showing improvement.

Loser*

[Dawg61]

If teams have significantly more talent than us, but we're hanging in games till the end is that coaching that allows us to compete? Just curious bc everyone seems to think we've got significantly inferior talent and coaching, yet we're close in pretty much all our games

We are above average athletically and we play a pretty decent 2-3 zone plus we are above average at drawing fouls. Those three areas keep us in the games longer than we really deserve to be. I'll give Ray credit here. He's found a way to stay in games with defense and drawing fouls. It's horribly boring to watch though.

[MadDawg]

If this is improvement for people on here, then the bar and expectations have been dropped so low for Mississippi State basketball, we will be irrelevant the next 2 decades.

This has been my biggest gripe. If we had the same expectations, this year would be completely unacceptable. As it is, since we seem to be happy with marginal improvement each year, if this season plays out as expected, we could be "improved" next season and STILL not be in contention for any post-season play. Then we are on to year 5 or 6 before we really expect to even make the NIT.

[CottonDog]

What? If we were currently an NIT team this season I think most people would be happy with the improvement. I would be. Nothing wrong with showing improvement.

I'd call making postseason winning.

[msstate7]

We are above average athletically and we play a pretty decent 2-3 zone plus we are above average at drawing fouls. Those three areas keep us in the games longer than we really deserve to be. I'll give Ray credit here. He's found a way to stay in games with defense and drawing fouls. It's horribly boring to watch though.

It can be incredibly boring at times.

I'm HOPING the offense will progress with an influx of more skill players. I'd be lying if I said I'm certain it will though. Ray needs to pick it up with teaching offense.

Do college basketball coaches have offseason clinics like football coaches do? If so, ray needs to make a tour this offseason

[maroonmania]

If teams have significantly more talent than us, but we're hanging in games till the end is that coaching that allows us to compete? Just curious bc everyone seems to think we've got significantly inferior talent and coaching, yet we're close in pretty much all our games

Well as already mentioned we are fairly athletic and good defensively. Those 2 things alone can keep you competetive and in games. If that's all we want we are doing well. However, the bottom line is when its time to make the plays to win games at the end we can't do it, and we can't stop other more talented teams FROM doing it. At some point a loss is a loss and a win is a win. Heck, look at OM where they have a very good overall record and will be in the NCAAs but they have won a slew of games by just a very few points. All of their games are close but they usually find a way to pull it out just like Saturday where they again won a 2 point game at home against TN. That's the difference between good teams and bad teams. Unless you are a team talented like KY you aren't going to go around blowing everyone out especially on the road. You have to be able to make the plays when the game is on the line. Right now we don't have the players, or at least enough of them, to do that.

[dawgs]

It can be incredibly boring at times.

I'm HOPING the offense will progress with an influx of more skill players. I'd be lying if I said I'm certain it will though. Ray needs to pick it up with teaching offense.

Do college basketball coaches have offseason clinics like football coaches do? If so, ray needs to make a tour this offseason

He needs to be making the tour as an assistant for arizona st or some other middling P5 program.

[dawgs]

If teams have significantly more talent than us, but we're hanging in games till the end is that coaching that allows us to compete? Just curious bc everyone seems to think we've got significantly inferior talent and coaching, yet we're close in pretty much all our games

But we have more experience on the court than most teams. That accounts for the improvement from blowouts to close losses over 3 years.

[RougeDawg]

It can be incredibly boring at times.

I'm HOPING the offense will progress with an influx of more skill players. I'd be lying if I said I'm certain it will though. Ray needs to pick it up with teaching offense.

Do college basketball coaches have offseason clinics like football coaches do? If so, ray needs to make a tour this offseason

What makes you think Ray can somehow miraculously start teaching offense,'when he can't even get out players to inbounds the ball and eliminate the boneheaded turnovers. It's much easier to practice and teach inbound plays and proper passing, than it is teaching someone how to shoot a round object into a round metal ring. People on here need to stop thinking with emotion and start thinking logically, using on court performances and stats as their basis for conclusion. I've noticed a lot of posts from people based on what they "hope" and "want" to happen, but these are very stark differences in what is "actually" happening with our program. When emotion is brought into decision making, most times the decision or conclusion is incorrect.

[BiscuitEater]

We've now lost 6 of our 9 sec losses by 6 or less and held 2nd half leads in all of them. There still losses, but I see improvement.

I really believe tookie and weatherspoon are gonna help us win these games next season. Tookie > bloodman. Weatherspoon will be a great compliment player to sword. These 2 should help us with our ball handling/driving issues.

We are 'way' closser to having a WORSE rather than a BETTER record. Our losses have been, on average, by 9.7 pts/game .. while our wins have been by 4.8 pts/game.

4 of our 5 wins have been by 6 points or less; 3 of our 5 wins have been by 5 points or less and ... 2 of our 5 wins have been by 3 points.

Also, anyone that makes 'projections' about starting lineups ... who is going to help ... next year or the year after NEEDS to caveat with a ** hopefully** next to it BECAUSE it seldom, if ever works out that way ... for example ..

* Most had Daniels in their lineup 'last' year ... and he couldn't pass ONE math class
* Most had Zepardo in their lineup for this year ... nobody knows 'whats' going to happen with injuries
* Anybody that has 'anybody' in a lineup that isn't even in Starkville yet ... hasn't been watching our program closely
* Injuries happen ... and nobody knows 'who' or 'when' ... but they have happened a lot ... lately.

[msstate7]

What makes you think Ray can somehow miraculously start teaching offense,'when he can't even get out players to inbounds the ball and eliminate the boneheaded turnovers. It's much easier to practice and teach inbound plays and proper passing, than it is teaching someone how to shoot a round object into a round metal ring. People on here need to stop thinking with emotion and start thinking logically, using on court performances and stats as their basis for conclusion. I've noticed a lot of posts from people based on what they "hope" and "want" to happen, but these are very stark differences in what is "actually" happening with our program. When emotion is brought into decision making, most times the decision or conclusion is incorrect.

Kinda like you "hope" and "want" ray to be fired this year? Guess what my "hopes" for next year are MUCH more likely to happen than your "hope" that ray gets fired this year. So, I'll hold out my "hopes" that Ray does well bc it means we do well rather than hold my nutts on em

[dawgs]

Kinda like you "hope" and "want" ray to be fired this year? Guess what my "hopes" for next year are MUCH more likely to happen than your "hope" that ray gets fired this year. So, I'll hold out my "hopes" that Ray does well bc it means we do well rather than hold my nutts on em

You can hope we fire ray and move on to a coach deserving of being a HC at a P5 program with the money flowing in that we do while also hoping that ray wins, this meaning msu wins. These aren't mutually exclusive, it's just that many of us are able to see that unless something surprising happens, ray isn't the answer and we want to WIN not lose better. I can't reasonably see next year being anything better than a NIT team (and that's if we don't suffer any injuries - see november thru December 2014), then we lose a lot of minutes and production. The recruiting has improved, but it sure as shit ain't enough to give me hope that we will turn into a semi-consistent ncaa. Until I see ray's recruits make a bigger impact, it's impossible for me to believe he's recruiting the types of players that will take us from a sub-.500 team to ncaa team.

[Dawg61]

You can hope we fire ray and move on to a coach deserving of being a HC at a P5 program with the money flowing in that we do while also hoping that ray wins, this meaning msu wins. These aren't mutually exclusive, it's just that many of us are able to see that unless something surprising happens, ray isn't the answer and we want to WIN not lose better. I can't reasonably see next year being anything better than a NIT team (and that's if we don't suffer any injuries - see november thru December 2014), then we lose a lot of minutes and production. The recruiting has improved, but it sure as shit ain't enough to give me hope that we will turn into a semi-consistent ncaa. Until I see ray's recruits make a bigger impact, it's impossible for me to believe he's recruiting the types of players that will take us from a sub-.500 team to ncaa team.

Unfortunately it seems a lot of people including SS need it to be a pile of ashes before they determine something is on fire. So we all get to suffer till the less aware finally ****ing get it. When will that be? After next year? Well it'll be too late by then and we'll be handing the next guy an empty pistol instead of a fully loaded one this year. Two years from now? Is it going to take Ray not getting an NCAA appearance in his first five years to finally get fired? What does it actually take to fire this guy? 0-18 record in SEC?