Today's basketball game

[DudyDawg]

What went wrong? I watched the last 5 or so, and we didn't make a shot until Craig's prayer three. Can someone sum up the pros and cons of the other 35 minutes? Really sucks to see us get so close and fall short in winning time in what could be a massive upset for us

[Dawg61]

23 turnovers. We played great D but typical bad free throw shooting and turnovers cost us the win. Bloodman is damn awful on offense.

[msstate7]

TO's, sword missing 8 FT's, bad shooting, but outstanding defense

[DudyDawg]

they were in 2-3 for the 5 minutes I saw. Was that all game? What were we in on D all game?

[maroonmania]

Made a HUGE blunder when we got the ball back down 2 with 25 seconds to go. We should have held the ball until under 10 (under 5 would have even been better) and then either shot the 3 for the win or if forced take the 2 for the tie. Instead Sword drives right into the heart of the defense, turns it over, Ark turns it back over and then Ware throws the ball to RJohnson who promptly gets stripped and that was it. If we had just held out for the final shot we would have had a chance but forcing the issue early we never even gave ourself a shot to win.

[Dawg61]

they were in 2-3 for the 5 minutes I saw. Was that all game? What were we in on D all game?

2-3 zone most of 2nd half. We rebounded well and Arky shot poorly but no way we're winning with 23 turnovers. No IJ no win.

[DudyDawg]

2-3 zone most of 2nd half. We rebounded well and Arky shot poorly but no way we're winning with 23 turnovers. No IJ no win.

Agreed. I actually like us a lot in 2-3 unless it's a team that can shoot the lights out. Daniels and fred are both long and really athletic on one wing. We can make it hard for people. Wish we attacked it better when others do it to us. If we aren't in zone I think we should press. Thanks for the info

[DudyDawg]

Made a HUGE blunder when we got the ball back down 2 with 25 seconds to go. We should have held the ball until under 10 (under 5 would have even been better) and then either shot the 3 for the win or if forced take the 2 for the tie. Instead Sword drives right into the heart of the defense, turns it over, Ark turns it back over and then Ware throws the ball to RJohnson who promptly gets stripped and that was it. If we had just held out for the final shot we would have had a chance but forcing the issue early we never even gave ourself a shot to win.

Ehh, I disagree. In the NBA, hold for last shots, go 2 for 1 etc. In college, especially when you aren't a super talented offensive team, you should just run your offense for the best shot you can get. Obviously we were turning it over and what not, but in general I think it's best to just get what you can when you can at this level. Unless you've got an austin rivers to ISO and shoot the jumper like he did agaisnt UNC a few years ago, I think the best bet is to run your plays and take what you can

[Martianlander]

[QUOTE=DudyDawg;335980]What went wrong?

Coaching

[maroonmania]

Ehh, I disagree. In the NBA, hold for last shots, go 2 for 1 etc. In college, especially when you aren't a super talented offensive team, you should just run your offense for the best shot you can get. Obviously we were turning it over and what not, but in general I think it's best to just get what you can when you can at this level. Unless you've got an austin rivers to ISO and shoot the jumper like he did agaisnt UNC a few years ago, I think the best bet is to run your plays and take what you can

Guess we will agree to disagree then. With the approach we took trying to force the ball our best scenario would have been tying it up if we were fortunate enough to make a shot in penetration and then Arkansas would have had 15 to 20 seconds to hold for the last shot. I don't like my odds there. If we had missed, yes, you would get that 2nd possession but its very likely you are now down by 4 points, 3 if you are lucky, because you' would have had to put Ark on the foul line.

[DudyDawg]

Guess we will agree to disagree then. With the approach we took trying to force the ball our best scenario would have been tying it up if we were fortunate enough to make a shot in penetration and then Arkansas would have had 15 to 20 seconds to hold for the last shot. I don't like my odds there. If we had missed, yes, you would get that 2nd possession but its very likely you are now down by 4 points, 3 if you are lucky, because you' would have had to put Ark on the foul line.

I get the reasoning for both, really. That's a personal preference thing for most. There are lots of coaches who do both. Today, wouldn't have mattered. We just flat out screwed the pooch there.

[DudyDawg]

What's the official word on IJ? Did Houston play?

[Coach34]

Ray coached it extremely well today. There is just so much a coach can do. We need better players.

Sword was going to drive to the basket and shoot that ball come hell or high water there- you could see it the whole way down the floor. It was like watching Jamont Gordon with less talent. You could just tell what he was going to do the whole way

[Coach34]

Ray's situational subbing was outstanding. He juggled 3 guys with 4 fouls beautifully

[TheRef]

What's the official word on IJ? Did Houston play?

IJ wasn't even close to being a gametime decision...he could barely practice on Friday.

[Bothrops]

If we would shoot more, we'd cut our number of turnovers way down, plus, it would give us a chance to add points.

[smootness]

Wait, I didn't watch the game. We lost by 4 to Arkansas without Ready?

I'm sorry, that's an accomplishment. He's the most important player for us.

[DudyDawg]

IJ wasn't even close to being a gametime decision...he could barely practice on Friday.

What's the word? Out for long?

[HSVDawg]

Ray coached it extremely well today. There is just so much a coach can do. We need better players.

Sword was going to drive to the basket and shoot that ball come hell or high water there- you could see it the whole way down the floor. It was like watching Jamont Gordon with less talent. You could just tell what he was going to do the whole way

At what point does "we need better players" become an indictment on the coach? Its his 3rd year. If Roq, Thomas, Ware, and Ready aren't good enough he's had 2 full years to upgrade in the talent department. He hasn't done so.

[msstate7]

At what point does "we need better players" become an indictment on the coach? Its his 3rd year. If Roq, Thomas, Ware, and Ready aren't good enough he's had 2 full years to upgrade in the talent department. He hasn't done so.

It's certainly an indictment against ray. He's gotten much better signees/commits lately though, so I'm hopeful for the future. If we signed another class of applewhite and Davis to fill our guard needs, I wouldn't be hopeful at all

[Coach34]

At what point does "we need better players" become an indictment on the coach? Its his 3rd year. If Roq, Thomas, Ware, and Ready aren't good enough he's had 2 full years to upgrade in the talent department. He hasn't done so.

It's already an indictment on Ray. But he has already rectified that with his next 2 classes it looks like

[tcdog70]

Ray actually, Coached pretty good today. What is his albatross is he has no guards- thus the turnover machine that we are. Houston played and did well. Also Daniels played ok. But when you go almost 8 minutes at the end without scoring then u aren't going to win.

[engie]

This team is so annoying because it's gotten so close. Losing close ones puts a microscope on the things you did/do badly.

[Raytoraid83]

It's already an indictment on Ray. But he has already rectified that with his next 2 classes it looks like
How hard is it to find a good juco scorer? Kennedy's done it two times in a row now and it's gonna lead them to ncaa tourney again this year. Weatherspoon is going to be good but it takes an elite player to come in and be a legit scorer espically when he's the only shooting threat next year. Hopefully he can be that good but we'll see.

Not sure where all the tookie love comes from. We were going to pull his scholly but it would have caused too much back lash in Georgia. 247 shows us as his only offer. Rick Ray teams predicate them self on defense and it's going to be hard to defend with two 5'7 pgs next year...

[coastdoglover]

Keep on plugging coach and my oh my what a difference you are on this board, always blaming the players and always defending the coach even into the future. You have shown us your true colors and nobody has a vendetta against Ray like you did with our former coach. It is not fair for MSU fans who buy season tickets to have to keep on putting up with this crap. When Sword leaves next year, we will have no offense and it is pretty bad with him, so don't we have a lot to look forward to in the future.




It's already an indictment on Ray. But he has already rectified that with his next 2 classes it looks like

[msstate7]

How hard is it to find a good juco scorer? Kennedy's done it two times in a row now and it's gonna lead them to ncaa tourney again this year. Weatherspoon is going to be good but it takes an elite player to come in and be a legit scorer espically when he's the only shooting threat next year. Hopefully he can be that good but we'll see.

Not sure where all the tookie love comes from. We were going to pull his scholly but it would have caused too much back lash in Georgia. 247 shows us as his only offer. Rick Ray teams predicate them self on defense and it's going to be hard to defend with two 5'7 pgs next year...

Zuppardo would've been a nice scoring option had he not been hurt.

[msstate7]

How hard is it to find a good juco scorer? Kennedy's done it two times in a row now and it's gonna lead them to ncaa tourney again this year. Weatherspoon is going to be good but it takes an elite player to come in and be a legit scorer espically when he's the only shooting threat next year. Hopefully he can be that good but we'll see.

Not sure where all the tookie love comes from. We were going to pull his scholly but it would have caused too much back lash in Georgia. 247 shows us as his only offer. Rick Ray teams predicate them self on defense and it's going to be hard to defend with two 5'7 pgs next year...

Curious where did you hear that about tookie? Guess how many offers moody of OM showed on 247.

[Raytoraid83]

Curious where did you hear that about tookie? Guess how many offers moody of OM showed on 247.

Friend of the program. Haha just looked that up too on moody. Juco recruiting a little different I guess. I hope he turns out but I'm skeptical.

[HancockCountyDog]

I think I'm more tired of the debate than I am the losses. He is getting next year which means he will be getting a 5th year.

[Dawg61]

How hard is it to find a good juco scorer? Kennedy's done it two times in a row now and it's gonna lead them to ncaa tourney again this year. Weatherspoon is going to be good but it takes an elite player to come in and be a legit scorer espically when he's the only shooting threat next year. Hopefully he can be that good but we'll see.

Not sure where all the tookie love comes from. We were going to pull his scholly but it would have caused too much back lash in Georgia. 247 shows us as his only offer. Rick Ray teams predicate them self on defense and it's going to be hard to defend with two 5'7 pgs next year...

We'd have to drop a player to add a juco/transfer. Pretty sure we already have to drop one with 3 signees coming in so that makes two players you've gotta drop which doesn't make a ton of sense when all we have to do is wait one year for two spots to open themselves. Dunlap is looking like a possible casualty. Which again doesn't make sense since he got redshirted. Whose Ray dropping?

[msstate7]

Sword
Ready
Dunlap
Weatherspoon
Tookie
Fred
Daniels
Ware
Black
Strugg
Zuppardo
Ndoye
Houston
=13

Am I missing someone?

[Dawg61]

Sword
Ready
Dunlap
Weatherspoon
Tookie
Fred
Daniels
Ware
Black
Strugg
Zuppardo
Ndoye
Houston
=13

Am I missing someone?

Nope nvm we'll be at 13. Nobody is getting cut unless we sign one more.

[msstate7]

Friend of the program. Haha just looked that up too on moody. Juco recruiting a little different I guess. I hope he turns out but I'm skeptical.

You don't think tookie's lack of offers could've been since he committed really early to us? I have no idea, so I'm asking.

Could've the talk of dropping tookie been when we were looking much better with malik?

I don't think tookie will be great, but I do think he will significantly upgrade bloodman

[maroonmania]

I think I'm more tired of the debate than I am the losses. He is getting next year which means he will be getting a 5th year.

I'm getting very weary of the debate as well. I really wish it was cut and dry right now that Ray should be canned or that he should be given 100% support by the fanbase. We are better this year after an unforgivable stretch in December but we will need to make a significant jump next year just to be an NIT team much less an NCAA team. I feel one year from now we will all be sitting here AGAIN debating if the basketball team has accomplished enough to warrant a 5th year for Ray given all the seniors we will be losing. It is starting to all get more than a little old.