Put a % on it: Rick Ray takes State to the Sweet 16

[Political Hack]

What percent do you give this of happening?

Go...

[32 Dive]

I better reacquaint myself, with the proper usage of scientific notation. What is the format, for this board, to produce a negative exponent? :confused:

[godlluB]

Zero

[Coach34]

Higher than Stands

[Political Hack]

Higher than Stands

not by much.

[MSUDawg4Life]

not by much.

Doesn't take much to be higher than zero percent.

[DownwardDawg]

0% chance. 5% he ever makes the NCAA tourney.

[MadDawg]

What percent do you give this of happening?

Go...

We have a word for this in the accounting world. It's called "TSTP" or "too small to pursue".

[Irondawg]

At this point - a strong 0% to NCAA sweet 16

He signs Newman, that goes to 1%

[cheewgumm]

I think we make the tourney in 2 years...if he stays. Sweet 16? that seems improbable. but college basketball has gotten really really bad, so I could see it happening.

It really depends on how long he stays. I bet if he stays for 4 more years, we make it into round 2.

[Outside Dawg]

Is the purpose of this thread anti-Ray, in that you don't think he will ever get that far, or is it anti-Stans in that he never got that far in 14 seasons?

[HereComesTheSpiral]

http://m.quickmeme.com/img/49/49ded2238ba4eaaca94bf22f509c13db3e7699d8a1934664cd 942a491650b05f.jpg
We have a word for this in the accounting world. It's called "TSTP" or "too small to pursue".

[msumudcat]

Say what you will about RS but until Ray proves he can sniff a winning season in the SEC and recruit better, -100%

[32 Dive]

19.83 x 10-6%

[HereComesTheSpiral]

19.83TM x 10-6%

I think Avogadro's Number is a more accurate representation of our chances.

[drunkernhelldawg]

The stars would have to line up, but a Georgia-style SEC tourney run is possible.

[quickstrike2]

Zero is Zero no matter how you look at it. So same as Stands.

[32 Dive]

I think Avogadro's Number is a more accurate representation of our chances.
That would be the proper representation, of the probability of both landing Malik Newman AND making the Sweet Sixteen.

[Homedawg]

Richard Williams made it twice, other than that we haven't made it. So if he does, which isn't likely, he will be way ahead of others who failed to do so. Including the illustrious RS.

[State82]

Since there are no absolutes in the world other than dying and if we are using whole numbers for estimating purposes I will say 1%. But it's actually less than that. Much less.

[West Houston Dog]

That applies.

<1% in mathematical terms

[TimberBeast]

Higher than Stands

The question was what percentage chance does Ray have of making it, and your answer was, higher than Stans. That is the definition of obsession. You have problems.

[msstate7]

This year there's 0% chance.

Next season, who knows? Very doubtful though

I know there are several here who'd be pulling very hard against us if we made the tourney. Stansbury disciples would be in meltdown mode. Others here would rather be right about ray with us losing than be wrong and us win.

[MSUDawg4Life]

The question was what percentage chance does Ray have of making it, and your answer was, higher than Stans. That is the definition of obsession. You have problems.

Let's not pretend this wasn't an attempt to make Stansbury look better. Some folks are just aware that Stansbury never did it in 14 years. Which makes this attempted slight of Rick Ray weak, lame and ineffective.

[Goat from MSU]

Zero, 0, Not a chance in Hell, 0 , . By the way he would still have to be coaching here to do this which won't be the case after next year.

[codeDawg]

What percent do you give this of happening?

Go...

https://p.gr-assets.com/540x540/fit/hostedimages/1379791083/545605.jpg

[maroonmania]

At this point - a strong 0% to NCAA sweet 16

He signs Newman, that goes to 1%

If he signs Newman (which is very unlikely) then that number jumps WAY more than by 1%. If you add a Top 5 HS talent that can score to all the returning veteran players we have next year I would jump our chance to make a Sweet 16 to 15-20%. One great player with a decent supporting cast can make a HUGE difference on a basketball team. In fact, with Newman I would put our chances of making the NCAAs next year at 75%, without him more like 20%.

With all the good players Stans had, he never got a guy the caliber of Newman to campus because he didn't have the one-year rule.

[coastdoglover]

NCAA tourney Zero and then bye bye next year

[dawgs]

I think we make the tourney in 2 years...if he stays. Sweet 16? that seems improbable. but college basketball has gotten really really bad, so I could see it happening.

It really depends on how long he stays. I bet if he stays for 4 more years, we make it into round 2.

So we lost a core of guys that have been starting for 4 years and suddenly get better in 2 years? Our cruitin' ain't going that good.

[dawgs]

This year there's 0% chance.

Next season, who knows? Very doubtful though

I know there are several here who'd be pulling very hard against us if we made the tourney. Stansbury disciples would be in meltdown mode. Others here would rather be right about ray with us losing than be wrong and us win.

If we were making the ncaa tourney or even on an obvious trajectory upwards towards the ncaa tourney, there wouldn't be any bitching about ray. If he suddenly turns into a great HC overnight and figures out how to turn guys that have been a team outside the RPI top 150 their entire career into a tourney caliber team, then more power to him. I just don't see it happening though.

Can anyone find me an instance where a team with the same core of seniors manages to go from 3 .500 or worse seasons to an at-large caliber ncaa team their senior year without adding an elite talent?

[thunderclap]

What percent do you give this of happening?

Go...

I see what you did there. Nice.

[starkvegasdawg]

I put the odds of this happening just worse than my wife agreeing to a three way and the other girl being the playmate of the year.

[Dawg61]

I know there are several here who'd be pulling very hard against us if we made the tourney. Stansbury disciples would be in meltdown mode. Others here would rather be right about ray with us losing than be wrong and us win.

This is total bullshit

[msstate7]

If we were making the ncaa tourney or even on an obvious trajectory upwards towards the ncaa tourney, there wouldn't be any bitching about ray. If he suddenly turns into a great HC overnight and figures out how to turn guys that have been a team outside the RPI top 150 their entire career into a tourney caliber team, then more power to him. I just don't see it happening though.

Can anyone find me an instance where a team with the same core of seniors manages to go from 3 .500 or worse seasons to an at-large caliber ncaa team their senior year without adding an elite talent?

Who was the elite talent Richard Williams added to get to the nit his 4th year and ncaa his 5th after having 3 straight losing seasons? (Honest question bc I don't know)

Weatherspoon is a top 100 player. He could potentially be an elite talent

[smootness]

This is total bullshit

I think he's right. I don't think there would be a lot, but there would be some.

[codeDawg]

Who was the elite talent Richard Williams added to get to the nit his 4th year and ncaa his 5th after having 3 straight losing seasons? (Honest question bc I don't know)

Weatherspoon is a top 100 player. He could potentially be an elite talent

Cameron Burns.

ETA: Greg Carter

ETA2: From ALL‐CENTURY TEAM MEMBERS (http://www.hailstate.com/fls/16800/pdf/mbk/mbk_centuryvotingchoices.pdf)

Greg Carter (1988‐91)Finished his MSU career with 1,123 points and 611 rebounds. … Ranks among MSU’s career leaders in steals (115)and blocks (53). … Started 101 games, including all 59 games of his junior and senior campaigns combined. … Pacedthe 1990‐91 SEC co‐champion Bulldogs in rebounding (7.8) and field goal percentages (56.5). … Earned first‐teamAll‐SEC honors in 1991 and was voted to the All‐SEC Defensive team.

Cameron Burns (1989‐91)Earned All‐SEC honors each of his three Mississippi State seasons, including consensus first‐team all‐leaguerecognition as a senior. ... Finished with 1,460 career points and started all 87 games of his collegiate career. ...Paced the Bulldogs in scoring average all three years, highlighted by career‐best averages of 18.2 points and 7.3rebounds per game during his junior campaign. ... Set a single‐season school record by shooting 67.1 percent fromthe field as a sophomore... Member of two postseason tournament teams (1991 NCAA & 1990 NIT).

[Dawgface]

Zero. Doubt he makes the NCAA tourney either. Hope he proves us wrong though.

[Dawg61]

I think he's right. I don't think there would be a lot, but there would be some.

No there isn't one damn person that roots for Ray to fail over MSU winning. This is some horseshit thrown in by 7, Engie and C34 to act like not wanting Ray as HC makes Bulldog fans less than them. Just cause they wanna stay in the boat till it's totally submerged doesn't change the final outcome. Some people can tell when the iceberg rips a gigantic hole in the boat it's time to get off instead of waiting till it's totally sunk.

[Coach34]

Who was the elite talent Richard Williams added to get to the nit his 4th year and ncaa his 5th after having 3 straight losing seasons? (Honest question bc I don't know)

Weatherspoon is a top 100 player. He could potentially be an elite talent

Williams had a large group that grew up together- Hartsfield, Carter, Burns, Merritte- and they were Sr's his 5th year. They made the NIT their 4th season. He and Brady struck gold recruiting that group together after that 1st year

[bobcat91]

0% of making the tourney and 0% of the Sweet 16. Just not going to happen baring some Disney type movie miracle.

[smootness]

No there isn't one damn person that roots for Ray to fail over MSU winning. This is some horseshit thrown in by 7, Engie and C34 to act like not wanting Ray as HC makes Bulldog fans less than them. Just cause they wanna stay in the boat till it's totally submerged doesn't change the final outcome. Some people can tell when the iceberg rips a gigantic hole in the boat it's time to get off instead of waiting till it's totally sunk.

I don't think you would rather see Ray fail, but I do think some would, and I think you're crazy if you think otherwise.

There are definitely several posters even on this board who only show up when they can gloat over us losing. And there are obviously some guys who were very close to Stans who still aren't over the fact that he's gone and want the program to tank. I think you're being naive if you don't agree.

[Coach34]

No there isn't one damn person that roots for Ray to fail over MSU winning. This is some horseshit thrown in by 7, Engie and C34 to act like not wanting Ray as HC makes Bulldog fans less than them. Just cause they wanna stay in the boat till it's totally submerged doesn't change the final outcome. Some people can tell when the iceberg rips a gigantic hole in the boat it's time to get off instead of waiting till it's totally sunk.

Yep- we see how they come around and post about wins as opposed to just posting after losses...Oh wait

[Liverpooldawg]

Who was the elite talent Richard Williams added to get to the nit his 4th year and ncaa his 5th after having 3 straight losing seasons? (Honest question bc I don't know)

Weatherspoon is a top 100 player. He could potentially be an elite talent

Cameron Burns, Greg Carter, Doug Hartsfield, and Todd Merrit were all seniors that 5th year I believe. Also Brad Smith and Tony Watts were recent additions. One at least of that bunch was prop 48. They weren't true "elite" talent but they were very good. Carter and Burns were as good a pair together inside as we have ever had at MSU.

[Liverpooldawg]

I think he's right. I don't think there would be a lot, but there would be some.

He is right.

[Coach34]

Cameron Burns, Greg Carter, Doug Hartsfield, and Todd Merrit were all seniors that 5th year I believe. Also Brad Smith and Tony Watts were recent additions. One at least of that bunch was prop 48. They weren't true "elite" talent but they were very good. Carter and Burns were as good a pair together inside as we have ever had at MSU.

That team was also tough because Burns was a 6'6 post player- but Merritte was the C at 6'8 and could shoot 3's. Plus Carter was real good. That team just gave other teams match-up problems. And they wore Shaq's ass out

[bluelightstar]

I'd be shocked if Ray ever made the NCAAT period. Heck, we can't even get on the NIT bubble.

[TimberBeast]

I don't think you would rather see Ray fail, but I do think some would, and I think you're crazy if you think otherwise.

There are definitely several posters even on this board who only show up when they can gloat over us losing. And there are obviously some guys who were very close to Stans who still aren't over the fact that he's gone and want the program to tank. I think you're being naive if you don't agree.

I don't think there are any that would want us to fail as a program get rid of Ray, certainly not any more than wanted us to lose during Stans last year in hopes of getting rid of him. Coach just needs his BS thrown back at him sometimes especially when he starts up some of this kind of crap which is all aimed at trying to deflect against how bad we are now, how the program is on it's death bed, and how he led the charge against our former coach for no other reason than what seems like some kind of mental disorder that causes this obsession. We had some issues with the program, but nothing that couldn't be worked out, and definitely nothing even remotely compared to the garbage we have now.

[smootness]

I don't think there are any that would want us to fail as a program get rid of Ray, certainly not any more than wanted us to lose during Stans last year in hopes of getting rid of him. Coach just needs his BS thrown back at him sometimes especially when he starts up some of this kind of crap which is all aimed at trying to deflect against how bad we are now, how the program is on it's death bed, and how he led the charge against our former coach for no other reason than what seems like some kind of mental disorder that causes this obsession. We had some issues with the program, but nothing that couldn't be worked out, and definitely nothing even remotely compared to the garbage we have now.

I really don't want to start this discussion back up again, but I flipped on Stans when it became clear that we weren't going to work the issues out. I said the same thing for the first 2-3 years we had obvious issues, but then we didn't work them out, and one of our most talented teams ever barely made the NIT. That was it for me - before Stans' last year, I said we should give him that year to see what he could do with all that talent...and it crashed and burned. So we had to get rid of him.

Whether or not Ray is the guy, we made the right decision to try something else. I do think there are some that want us to fail, but I don't really care. We'll ultimately see if Ray is the guy (it isn't looking good right now), and if he isn't, we'll try somebody else. But I'd rather us try to get better and fail a few times than to keep doing the same thing and failing.

[engie]

No there isn't one damn person that roots for Ray to fail over MSU winning. This is some horseshit thrown in by 7, Engie and C34 to act like not wanting Ray as HC makes Bulldog fans less than them. Just cause they wanna stay in the boat till it's totally submerged doesn't change the final outcome. Some people can tell when the iceberg rips a gigantic hole in the boat it's time to get off instead of waiting till it's totally sunk.

No one acts like they are better than MSU fans with different opinions. Many here successfully accomplish that daily. Your thing is that you always have to go 3 steps past ridiculous on stuff -- such as promoting the firing of a coach midseason, promoting the firing of a vastly improved coach in a bad circumstance, promoting giving scholarships to anyone with a pulse simply to fill out the 13th scholarship, promoting cutting Fred Thomas, Oliver Black, and others, etc. At least you are around for good times and bad in basketball and actually just want the team to get better -- so you are certainly better than some in that regard.

[Hypnodawg]

I'll go with planck's constant as odds of a sweet 16.

[dawgs]

Williams had a large group that grew up together- Hartsfield, Carter, Burns, Merritte- and they were Sr's his 5th year. They made the NIT their 4th season. He and Brady struck gold recruiting that group together after that 1st year

And we aren't on pace to make the NIT, or even the CBI (or whatever) this year. Williams' team was showing an obvious upward trajectory to a point that the next step they'd take before that group graduated was the ncaa tourney. also in the late 80s and early 90s, we didn't have the clear monetary advantage over about 80% of D1 MBB like we do in 2015.

[Coach34]

Without injuries- we be dead on the NIT bubble. We wouldn't have those 4 Dec losses and we would be 15-8
right now. Injuries will be what kept this team out if the NIT- not lack of progress or coaching

[engie]

Without injuries- we be dead on the NIT bubble. We wouldn't have those 4 Dec losses and we would be 15-8
right now. Injuries will be what kept this team out if the NIT- not lack of progress or coaching

I agree. But at some point -- you've got to get healthy. 3 years here -- and Ray hasn't had a healthy team yet. Nevermind the potential of Staley and Zuppardo that we didn't get anything from this year. Almost the whole team has missed time with injury this season already.

I keep saying "wait until we're healthy" -- and that day never seems to come....

[quickstrike2]

I agree. But at some point -- you've got to get healthy. 3 years here -- and Ray hasn't had a healthy team yet. Nevermind the potential of Staley and Zuppardo that we didn't get anything from this year. Almost the whole team has missed time with injury this season already.

I keep saying "wait until we're healthy" -- and that day never seems to come....

Exactly my thoughts 100%. Also, I would like to think our program would be able to not lose to Arkansas State, Upstate, and Mcnease State while we have a few injuries and maybe not our best night. Injuries can't be used as a crutch from now on when using the "what ifs."

[Dawg61]

No one acts like they are better than MSU fans with different opinions. Many here successfully accomplish that daily. Your thing is that you always have to go 3 steps past ridiculous on stuff -- such as promoting the firing of a coach midseason, promoting the firing of a vastly improved coach in a bad circumstance, promoting giving scholarships to anyone with a pulse simply to fill out the 13th scholarship, promoting cutting Fred Thomas, Oliver Black, and others, etc. At least you are around for good times and bad in basketball and actually just want the team to get better -- so you are certainly better than some in that regard.

Disconnect between you and me is that you see the negative first from ideas I propose when I see the positives. I am an idea guy. When shit sucks I am throwing out ideas on how it can get better. When we suck I want all sorts of action taken till we no longer suck anymore. You don't see me throwing out crazy ideas for football or baseball. Know why? Cause we don't suck. You don't want to fire Ray because of some 2016 recruits. What kinda dumb shit is that. When are you going to learn Engie that you never ever ever hire and fire coaches based on high school juniors and seniors. This is the EXACT reason why we are stuck in this ****ing black hole to begin with. Stricklin rushed the hire to save a ****ing recruiting class. Unacceptable.

[smootness]

Disconnect between you and me is that you see the negative first from ideas I propose when I see the positives. I am an idea guy. When shit sucks I am throwing out ideas on how it can get better. When we suck I want all sorts of action taken till we no longer suck anymore. You don't see me throwing out crazy ideas for football or baseball. Know why? Cause we don't suck. You don't want to fire Ray because of some 2016 recruits. What kinda dumb shit is that. When are you going to learn Engie that you never ever ever hire and fire coaches based on high school juniors and seniors. This is the EXACT reason why we are stuck in this ****ing black hole to begin with. Stricklin rushed the hire to save a ****ing recruiting class. Unacceptable.

No. He didn't. If anything, we waited a year too long.

We absolutely did not make that decision based on a decent recruiting class; I've never even seen that idea suggested anywhere. We made the move because it was clear after that year that no amount of talent was going to overcome the internal issues within the program.

I'm not even sure how that makes sense. The only time you make a decision in order to save a recruiting class is when you don't fire the current guy. You're arguing that the only reason to keep Ray on board is to save a recruiting class while also arguing that the reason we didn't keep Stans on was to save a recruiting class.

That makes no sense.

[99jc]

Higher than Stands

sometimes i wonder about you. But you luv MSU so i can overlook the silly bull shit.

[TheDogFather]

Higher than Stands

If you had any credibility on this subject, I would have said you just lost all credibility on the subject.

[Dawg61]

No. He didn't. If anything, we waited a year too long.

We absolutely did not make that decision based on a decent recruiting class; I've never even seen that idea suggested anywhere. We made the move because it was clear after that year that no amount of talent was going to overcome the internal issues within the program.

I'm not even sure how that makes sense. The only time you make a decision in order to save a recruiting class is when you don't fire the current guy. You're arguing that the only reason to keep Ray on board is to save a recruiting class while also arguing that the reason we didn't keep Stans on was to save a recruiting class.

That makes no sense.

It makes no sense to you because you're interpreting it wrong. Stansbury was gone regardless. I'm talking about the 15 days Stricklin used to fire Stansbury and then hire Ray. Fifteen ****ing days is all he used to come up with Rick Ray. What was the rush for. He could of used 10,000 days and had Rick Ray on any one of those days. Why'd he rush? To get it done so that MSU could have a coach before spring signing was done. Stricklin should of named himself or Richard Williams or someone the interim until the CORRECT hire was made. If that took 6 months than **** it.

[dawgs]

Without injuries- we be dead on the NIT bubble. We wouldn't have those 4 Dec losses and we would be 15-8
right now. Injuries will be what kept this team out if the NIT- not lack of progress or coaching

We lost by 20 to mcneese st. We lost by 14 to arkansas st. Not like we lost on a last second buzzer beater. We also lost to the last place team in the big 12 by 9, to the 7th place team in the AAC, to the 3rd place atlantic sun team I'd never even heard of, and by 25 to the worst florida team since Donovan's 2nd season.

We can always say "if ____ was healthy", or "if _____ hadn't gotten himself kicked off the team", or "if _____ hadn't been ice cold", but at the end of the day, you are what your record says you are. It's year ****ing 3 and we should be able to handle an injury or 2 for a few weeks without losing to ****ing South Carolina upstate and by 20 to mcneese state.

[Political Hack]

lmao. We're not making the post season because of injuries. hahahahahaha

[engie]

lmao. We're not making the post season because of injuries. hahahahahaha

I thought you said Zuppardo was our best player?

[smootness]

It makes no sense to you because you're interpreting it wrong. Stansbury was gone regardless. I'm talking about the 15 days Stricklin used to fire Stansbury and then hire Ray. Fifteen ****ing days is all he used to come up with Rick Ray. What was the rush for. He could of used 10,000 days and had Rick Ray on any one of those days. Why'd he rush? To get it done so that MSU could have a coach before spring signing was done. Stricklin should of named himself or Richard Williams or someone the interim until the CORRECT hire was made. If that took 6 months than **** it.

You're right, I misread your post, sorry.

I do agree that you shouldn't make any coaching decision based on a recruiting class.

[Political Hack]

I thought you said Zuppardo was our best player?

he is. And I don't think it's close. but he wouldn't have taken us to the NIT without a lot more help than is currently available.

[engie]

he is. And I don't think it's close. but he wouldn't have taken us to the NIT without a lot more help than is currently available.

So, a team that's been good enough for the NIT since it found "health" in January -- wouldn't even sniff the NIT had it been healthy and added what you consider by far the best piece for the whole season? Nevermind the Staley factor that we'll never apparently know...

So, we lose Roquez and add Zuppardo. By what you are saying, clear upgrade. Lose Bloodman and add Tookie -- obvious clear upgrade. Add Strugg and Weatherspoon for empty spots. Black gets another year to develop, hopefully Ready and Sword actually obtain 100%, etc... And you don't think that team has any chance of sniffing a tournament that it's currently, right now, good enough to play in -- but lacking the body of work for it due to early injuries?

[msstate7]

he is. And I don't think it's close. but he wouldn't have taken us to the NIT without a lot more help than is currently available.

We've lost 4 of our 7 sec games by 6 points or less. We held a second half lead in each of those games.

We lost to usc upstate by 2 and Tulane by 5.

You don't think our "best player" would've helped in those games?

Win half of the above games and we're 15-10. That would put us very much in nit consideration

[Percho]

I'm WITH YOU FELLERS.

[dawgs]

So, a team that's been good enough for the NIT since it found "health" in January -- wouldn't even sniff the NIT had it been healthy and added what you consider by far the best piece for the whole season? Nevermind the Staley factor that we'll never apparently know...

So, we lose Roquez and add Zuppardo. By what you are saying, clear upgrade. Lose Bloodman and add Tookie -- obvious clear upgrade. Add Strugg and Weatherspoon for empty spots. Black gets another year to develop, hopefully Ready and Sword actually obtain 100%, etc... And you don't think that team has any chance of sniffing a tournament that it's currently, right now, good enough to play in -- but lacking the body of work for it due to early injuries?

Sorry but in year 4 with that many seniors playing key roles, it's ncaa or bust. This was the year for the NIT to count as an acceptable step forward. Next year it's not acceptable because we are losing a lot of minutes off next year's team, so you have to anticipate at least a slight step back in 2016-2017.

[IMissJack]

Is "sweet sixteen" the name of a new doughnut shop in 'Vegas? Cause that's the only way he takes us.

[Barking 13]

17%***

[Coach34]

Exactly my thoughts 100%. Also, I would like to think our program would be able to not lose to Arkansas State, Upstate, and Mcnease State while we have a few injuries and maybe not our best night. Injuries can't be used as a crutch from now on when using the "what ifs."

But our program is not at the point that its starting guards can be hurt and we beat those people. You can wish for it sure- but we arent there yet. But it's obvious that since they got well- we have been a much better basketball team.

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

I think the reciprocal of Avogadro's Number is a more accurate representation of our chances.

FIFY.

[BeardoMSU]

What percent do you give this of happening?

Go...

I did a quick regression analysis....its not lookin' good***

http://s11.postimg.org/4oxnrpkoz/rick_ray.png

[MabenMaroon]

In what year is the question for me. 0% this year ( duh!! ), 5 to 10% next year and a little over 10% for the next few years after that. Got a sneaky feeling Coach Ray is going to be here for at least 6 years.

[engie]

Sorry but in year 4 with that many seniors playing key roles, it's ncaa or bust. This was the year for the NIT to count as an acceptable step forward. Next year it's not acceptable because we are losing a lot of minutes off next year's team, so you have to anticipate at least a slight step back in 2016-2017.

FWIW, I agree with you...

This team isn't where it needs to be in terms of where it is going to go in the postseason -- but it isn't terribly far away in terms of how good it actually is currently IMO. Anything less than the NCAAs next year is a failure.

Also, fwiw, we have't met my expectations in year 2 and year 3. Given the outside factors, it hasn't been far enough away to fire Ray -- but we haven't met them nonetheless. Failing this in year 4 for the 3rd time, and I'll absolutely be on board with going another direction. 4 years is enough time to be outside of the bottom third of the 5 power conferences. Every year -- half the P5 teams get in. We'll have as mature and experience of roster as there is in the country next year. No excuses...

[dawgs]

FWIW, I agree with you...

This team isn't where it needs to be in terms of where it is going to go in the postseason -- but it isn't terribly far away in terms of how good it actually is currently IMO. Anything less than the NCAAs next year is a failure.

Also, fwiw, we have't met my expectations in year 2 and year 3. Given the outside factors, it hasn't been far enough away to fire Ray -- but we haven't met them nonetheless. Failing this in year 4 for the 3rd time, and I'll absolutely be on board with going another direction. 4 years is enough time to be outside of the bottom third of the 5 power conferences. Every year -- half the P5 teams get in. We'll have as mature and experience of roster as there is in the country next year. No excuses...

I just don't think ray is the one to take that step based off the past 2 seasons, so I'd rather have a new coach come in with an experienced team and a chance to make some noise rather than come in and have to break in a bunch of new starters.

[Ralph]

It's probably pretty fluid but in the ballpark of 1%.

[engie]

I just don't think ray is the one to take that step based off the past 2 seasons, so I'd rather have a new coach come in with an experienced team and a chance to make some noise rather than come in and have to break in a bunch of new starters.

I'm not at all sure he's the guy -- but it would be an impossible search to fire him in year 3 after the improvement that has been made on the back half this season. He's our coach -- and he's got to have a full shot to prove with absolute certainty that isn't the guy -- for better or worse...

[TheDogFather]

No there isn't one damn person that roots for Ray to fail over MSU winning. This is some horseshit thrown in by 7, Engie and C34 to act like not wanting Ray as HC makes Bulldog fans less than them. Just cause they wanna stay in the boat till it's totally submerged doesn't change the final outcome. Some people can tell when the iceberg rips a gigantic hole in the boat it's time to get off instead of waiting till it's totally sunk.

This.

[Liverpooldawg]

But our program is not at the point that its starting guards can be hurt and we beat those people. You can wish for it sure- but we arent there yet. But it's obvious that since they got well- we have been a much better basketball team.

Injuries are part of sports.

[Quaoarsking]

If Zuppardo is really better than Sword we'll easily make the NIT next year if we stay healthy and have a shot at the NCAAs.

(This is the first I've ever heard that anyone thinks he's better...)

[msstate7]

If Zuppardo is really better than Sword we'll easily make the NIT next year if we stay healthy and have a shot at the NCAAs.

(This is the first I've ever heard that anyone thinks he's better...)

I have a hard time believing zuppardo is better than sword or ware. If zuppardo is better than johnson, I'll be thrilled

[archdog]

If we actually packed the hump every game, 10% chance on making the tourney within 3 years. So no only 1% chance on making the tourney before year 8.

[RougeDawg]

0% and 0% if we sign Malik. Getting to sweet 16 would require we actually could pass him the ball and not turn the ball over. The remainder of our players have not demonstrated that they can play a complete game clean enough to allow us to even beat an elite team, even if we have an elite player. Turning the ball over as much as we do, limits our chances and give the opponent that many more opportunities.

0%....... period.

[Dawg61]

I'm not at all sure he's the guy -- but it would be an impossible search to fire him in year 3 after the improvement that has been made on the back half this season. He's our coach -- and he's got to have a full shot to prove with absolute certainty that isn't the guy -- for better or worse...

It won't be an impossible search at all. Other coaches know Ray sucks. As soon as we start flashing $1.5-2 mill per year someone will say yes between the coaches at Northern Iowa, Murray St., BGSU, Louisiana Tech, Dayton, Stephen F. Austin, Baylor, Valparaiso, FGCU and any others we interview. It's the best thing for the program to let Ray go this year and help the next coach by giving him a fully stocked lineup and a year to recruit his own players to replace the seniors.

[thf24]

I thought we were hearing from most sources before his injury that Zuppardo wouldn't be a major contributor this year and might even redshirt. Hack seems to be the only person pushing a different opinion. He was right about Daniels not being the instant impact player most of us thought he would though, so at this point I'm taking his word that Zuppardo is a baller. Not that it matters at the present time.

[MSUDawg4Life]

Uhhh ....

Come on, fellers. There's a really good reason Hack is the only person saying Zuppardo is the best player on the team.

[RougeDawg]

What percent do you give this of happening?

Go...

Same percentage we have of C34 ever admitting Ray is not the answer for our BBall program. 0%

[Bully13]

0% and 0% if we sign Malik. Getting to sweet 16 would require we actually could pass him the ball and not turn the ball over. The remainder of our players have not demonstrated that they can play a complete game clean enough to allow us to even beat an elite team, even if we have an elite player. Turning the ball over as much as we do, limits our chances and give the opponent that many more opportunities.

0%....... period.

I'm not on the ray bandwagon but your post and the negativity you're spewing in not in the realm of reality.

[RougeDawg]

I'm not on the ray bandwagon but your post and the negativity you're spewing in not in the realm of reality.

Name me some of the elite teams that turn the ball over 15+ times a game? There are only 24 more teams in college basketball that turn the ball over more than we do per game. We are ranked 321 out of 345 teams in turnovers per game. No single player on this planet is going to make that much of an impact on the turnover end or turnover to assist ratio, to even get us close to sniffing the NCAA tourney, let alone the f*cking Sweet 16. Let that sink in MS Valley State is ranked higher than we are in turnovers per game.

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/team/217/p7

[Political Hack]

"we are almost good enough to make the NIT."

grand. y'all enjoy that hypothetical dream. I'll sit here in reality and realize that our program sucks right now with no signs of pulling out of it. We don't have a 2-man on our roster. how in the hell can we be in year three and not have a single two man? healthy or otherwise. Even if we had an injured 2 I'd feel more confident that Rick Ray actually knows what he's trying to build. We've got the most hodge-podged roster I've ever seen.

[dawgs]

I'm not at all sure he's the guy -- but it would be an impossible search to fire him in year 3 after the improvement that has been made on the back half this season. He's our coach -- and he's got to have a full shot to prove with absolute certainty that isn't the guy -- for better or worse...

Money talks and a coach at a P5 program (minus an extreme situation like baylor) should know that 3 straight sub-.500 seasons is going to put their job in jeopardy. If a coach turns us down for "unrealistic expectations" after 3 straight losing seasons, then he's lying and turning us down for other reasons.

[msugolf]

"we are almost good enough to make the NIT."

grand. y'all enjoy that hypothetical dream. I'll sit here in reality and realize that our program sucks right now with no signs of pulling out of it. We don't have a 2-man on our roster. how in the hell can we be in year three and not have a single two man? healthy or otherwise. Even if we had an injured 2 I'd feel more confident that Rick Ray actually knows what he's trying to build. We've got the most hodge-podged roster I've ever seen.

These 2 things all day long. And those are 2 of the most glaring. We are a team made up of combo 3's who can't really shoot, a 4 that now likes to shoot 15 footers, and an undersized 1 who has problems with physical teams and can't elevate enough to shoot over long defenders.

[tcdog70]

These 2 things all day long. And those are 2 of the most glaring. We are a team made up of combo 3's who can't really shoot, a 4 that now likes to shoot 15 footers, and an undersized 1 who has problems with physical teams and can't elevate enough to shoot over long defenders.

Ditto, is all I can add. This is the truth

[Dawg61]

These 2 things all day long. And those are 2 of the most glaring. We are a team made up of combo 3's who can't really shoot, a 4 that now likes to shoot 15 footers, and an undersized 1 who has problems with physical teams and can't elevate enough to shoot over long defenders.

Ray's roster management is worse than his offense. Brutal

[fishwater99]

.01983 % Which is higher than Stands b/c Stands isn't our coach anymore.

[smootness]

Our biggest offensive problem is that while our shooting has improved, it still isn't very good. That falls a lot onto Sword and Thomas, who have just now become serviceable shooters. They aren't Ray's guys. Roquez isn't his guy, and Bloodman was a desperate late grab.

Ndoye has a clear role as a true 5 who can defend and rebound. We just has to see if he develops. Black is a clear big man who defends and rebounds and has a better offensive game than I imagined. Houston is a clear 3 with great length and athleticism. Ready is a true PG; he's small, but people make too big a deal out of that. He's a true sophomore who has battled injuries but still has a lot of promise.

In the 2015 class, we have a scoring PG, a true SG, and another big man. Ray himself hasn't brought in many tweeners.

[maroonmania]

Our biggest offensive problem is that while our shooting has improved, it still isn't very good. That falls a lot onto Sword and Thomas, who have just now become serviceable shooters. They aren't Ray's guys. Roquez isn't his guy, and Bloodman was a desperate late grab.

Ndoye has a clear role as a true 5 who can defend and rebound. We just has to see if he develops. Black is a clear big man who defends and rebounds and has a better offensive game than I imagined. Houston is a clear 3 with great length and athleticism. Ready is a true PG; he's small, but people make too big a deal out of that. He's a true sophomore who has battled injuries but still has a lot of promise.

In the 2015 class, we have a scoring PG, a true SG, and another big man. Ray himself hasn't brought in many tweeners.

Uh, that's a big part of our problem. Outside of Ready and Daniels Ray doesn't really have any guys that do ANYTHING on offense. Ndoye, Black, Houston, and Bloodman give us little to nothing on the offensive end and Daniels is very up and down but probably more down than up. Thank goodness for the non-Ray guys.

[msstate7]

Uh, that's a big part of our problem. Outside of Ready and Daniels Ray doesn't really have any guys that do ANYTHING on offense. Ndoye, Black, Houston, and Bloodman give us little to nothing on the offensive end and Daniels is very up and down but probably more down than up. Thank goodness for the non-Ray guys.

If black, ndoye, and Houston were forced to play as many mins as ware, sword, and fred did as freshmen, I'm sure the new group would have similar numbers as the older group did as freshmen.

I like Houston and black's potential, but ray needs to get more game ready players. I think he's done that with tookie and weatherspoon. Ray has picked it up even more with hicks and Simonds. If Ray could pull off keglar (doubtful), the '16 class could be our best class ever. Even if Ray pulls hughes instead of keglar, it'd be a very good class

[tcdog70]

That team was also tough because Burns was a 6'6 post player- but Merritte was the C at 6'8 and could shoot 3's. Plus Carter was real good. That team just gave other teams match-up problems. And they wore Shaq's ass out
What about David Dominque (sp). He gave Shaquille hell

[Coach34]

Our offensive problems are much more about our lack of shooting than Ray's design. We reversed the ball on Saturday against the zone to Houston and he found the seam to penetrate- getting a great look from 8 feet out on the wing. Then he proceeded to not even touch the rim on his shot. Nothing any coach can do on that. And yes people- Ray is responsible for recruiting the guys that dont shoot well.

[Coach34]

What about David Dominque (sp). He gave Shaquille hell

Domingue (yeah I cant spell it either) set the best screen Ive ever seen vs UPig. Separated their PG's shoulder. We counted him out laying on the floor and Nolan Richardson went nuts. Good times my man, good times

[maroonmania]

If black, ndoye, and Houston were forced to play as many mins as ware, sword, and fred did as freshmen, I'm sure the new group would have similar numbers as the older group did as freshmen.

I like Houston and black's potential, but ray needs to get more game ready players. I think he's done that with tookie and weatherspoon. Ray has picked it up even more with hicks and Simonds. If Ray could pull off keglar (doubtful), the '16 class could be our best class ever. Even if Ray pulls hughes instead of keglar, it'd be a very good class

I totally disagree with that. Sword, Thomas and Ware were all more naturally talented scorers out of HS than Black, Houston and Ndoye. I would think that is pretty obvious. Hopefully some of the new guys become better scorers but they aren't anywhere near that right now.

[msstate7]

I totally disagree with that. Sword, Thomas and Ware were all more naturally talented scorers out of HS than Black, Houston and Ndoye. I would think that is pretty obvious. Hopefully some of the new guys become better scorers but they aren't anywhere near that right now.

Sword was a good scorer his freshman year.

While fred scored as a freshman, his shooting % was bad. If Houston got to shoot as much as fred did as a freshman, then he'd score too. Houston doesn't get the leeway that fred did. We had no choice but to play Fred then though.

Ware had tremendous potential as a freshman, but he was in really bad shape. Black has great potential too, but we can't allow him learn on the court like we did with ware. If black got the mins that ware got as a freshman, their numbers would be very similar imo.

You're probably right about ndoye on 2nd thought

[Saltydog]

nt

[engie]

I think Houston would prettymuch be a FR version of Sword if turned loose... Can't shoot at all, but realizes it relatively quickly and just out athletes people to the rim. Black is behind where Ware was as a freshman -- but is certainly ahead of where Roquez was. Black is as good defensively now that Ware has ever been IMO...

Man, I really wish Tookie as 3" taller... IMO, we're bringing in another shooting guard in this class. Hopefully one that can actually shoot...

[msstate7]

I think Houston would prettymuch be a FR version of Sword if turned loose... Can't shoot at all, but realizes it relatively quickly and just out athletes people to the rim. Black is behind where Ware was as a freshman -- but is certainly ahead of where Roquez was. Black is as good defensively now that Ware has ever been IMO...

Man, I really wish Tookie as 3" taller... IMO, we're bringing in another shooting guard in this class. Hopefully one that can actually shoot...

We're still recruiting a juco sg that I can never remember his name. (Someone help me) Do we have a legitimate shot with him?

Anyone know what ray thinks about dunlap's future? Is he gonna be a guy that can take a team out of a zone?

Tookie is short, but from what i hear he's a lot thicker than ready. Hopefully being heavier will allow him to hold up better

[engie]

I think the JUCO SG got a Louisville offer recently... So, it would be a really tough pull...

No idea on Dunlap. Wait and see....

To me, it's not about Tookie vs Ready, but Tookie vs Bloodman, which should be an offensive upgrade. I just want someone that isn't a defensive liability at the position. Neither has prototypical size, but if Tookie can D up, that'll be fine by me...

ETA: Where is Thaddeus Hall now? He was a freshman 2-3 combo goard that was actually the leading scorer for Jones CC's title team last year. Was teammates with Zuppardo. Not really a sharpshooter though...

[Ralph]

Domingue (yeah I cant spell it either) set the best screen Ive ever seen vs UPig. Separated their PG's shoulder. We counted him out laying on the floor and Nolan Richardson went nuts. Good times my man, good times

Yep I was at that game. Happened near half court. He's one of my all time favorite bball players. Russell Walters had a couple brutal picks too, as well as Brandon Vincent.

[shannondawg]

I was as well. Called on Walmart the next week, and had to explain that I wasn't the one that made that pick at midcourt. lol

[msstate7]

I think the JUCO SG got a Louisville offer recently... So, it would be a really tough pull...

No idea on Dunlap. Wait and see....

To me, it's not about Tookie vs Ready, but Tookie vs Bloodman, which should be an offensive upgrade. I just want someone that isn't a defensive liability at the position. Neither has prototypical size, but if Tookie can D up, that'll be fine by me...

ETA: Where is Thaddeus Hall now? He was a freshman 2-3 combo goard that was actually the leading scorer for Jones CC's title team last year. Was teammates with Zuppardo. Not really a sharpshooter though...

Hall on 247 shows offers from us, Dayton, Baylor, miami, Iowa, usm, Texas, USCe, St. John's, Texas tech, and West Virginia. Not sure how many of those are real

[Political Hack]

so... in effect, we've concluded that there was a decent chance Rick Ray could've made the NIT without injuries, but most of the % guesses for a sweet sixteen we're hovering somewhere around 0% or a high of "slightly better than Stans."