Ken Pomeroy Ranks the SEC

[codeDawg]

Remember these are computer rankings based on several statistical components of in game play, not an individual or group of individuals opinions.

Full Rankings Here (http://kenpom.com/index.php)

1. Kentucky
26. Arkansas
30. Mississippi
33. LSU
35. Florida
36. Georgia
47. Vanderbilt
49. Texas A&M
57. Alabama
64. South Carolina
101. Tennessee
135. Auburn
161. Mississippi State
201. Missouri

We finished 208 out of 347 last year, and 250 the year before. That's progress, right? We're right in between 160. UNC Wilmington and 162. Louisiana Monroe. We did manage to get past the pesky 184. Incarnate Word.

[msstate7]

We beat vandy head-to-head. We're ahead of them in the sec standings, yet they're 114 spots better than us.

USCe is 3-9 in the sec and yet they're one of the 64 best schools in the country. I thought the sec sucked

Maybe ken pomeroy should rerank...

[codeDawg]

We beat vandy head-to-head. We're ahead of them in the sec standings, yet they're 114 spots better than us.

USCe is 3-9 in the sec and yet they're one of the 64 best schools in the country. I thought the sec sucked

Maybe ken pomeroy should rerank...

Yes, I'm sure the most respected statistical ranking in college basketball should change a decade of experience in developing a formula based on when the sun shines on a dogs ass...

Here is SEC RPI, so pure W/L with no statistical analysis. See any trends in our ranking? Maybe all the numbers are wrong, or maybe we're a really bad team. Which do you think is more likely?

1. Kentucky
22. Georgia
23. Arkansas
37. Mississippi
43. Texas A&M
57. LSU
63. Alabama
76. Florida
83. Tennessee
112. South Carolina
118. Vanderbilt
162. Auburn
174. Missouri
187. Mississippi State

[Quaoarsking]

If you believe we're significantly worse than Florida State, LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, and Vanderbilt, then you have to give Rick Ray credit for somehow pulling off these huge upsets, two of which were on the road.

You can't have it both ways. Either Ray has done a phenomenal coaching job since January by somehow beating 5 teams way better than us, or it's not that impressive because we're about as good as those 5 teams -- which means Ray has done a good job to close the gap.

[msstate7]

Yes, I'm sure the most respected statistical ranking in college basketball should change a decade of experience in developing a formula based on when the sun shines on a dogs ass...

Here is SEC RPI, so pure W/L with no statistical analysis. See any trends in our ranking? Maybe all the numbers are wrong, or maybe we're a really bad team. Which do you think is more likely?

1. Kentucky
22. Georgia
23. Arkansas
37. Mississippi
43. Texas A&M
57. LSU
63. Alabama
76. Florida
83. Tennessee
112. South Carolina
118. Vanderbilt
162. Auburn
174. Missouri
187. Mississippi State

We're 5-7 in the sec, yet we're the worst team in the sec. We're tied for 8th place in the standing. How do these statisticians explain that?

I'm not saying we're good, but to say vandy is 114 spots better than us is ridiculous. So vandy should get an at large spot according to ken.

USCe being 64th is a joke.

These formulas they use seem to discredit in conference play altogether.

Rpi has kansas ahead of Kentucky. Kentucky beat Kansas by 32 on a neutral site.

Do you not see problems here?

[msstate7]

If you believe we're significantly worse than Florida State, LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, and Vanderbilt, then you have to give Rick Ray credit for somehow pulling off these huge upsets, two of which were on the road.

You can't have it both ways. Either Ray has done a phenomenal coaching job since January by somehow beating 5 teams way better than us, or it's not that impressive because we're about as good as those 5 teams -- which means Ray has done a good job to close the gap.

All our wins are the result of luck -- 75% of state fans

[defiantdog]

Remember these are computer rankings based on several statistical components of in game play, not an individual or group of individuals opinions.

Full Rankings Here (http://kenpom.com/index.php)

1. Kentucky
26. Arkansas
30. Mississippi
33. LSU
35. Florida
36. Georgia
47. Vanderbilt
49. Texas A&M
57. Alabama
64. South Carolina
101. Tennessee
135. Auburn
161. Mississippi State
201. Missouri

We finished 208 out of 347 last year, and 250 the year before. That's progress, right? We're right in between 160. UNC Wilmington and 162. Louisiana Monroe. We did manage to get past the pesky 184. Incarnate Word.

We're garbage, but at least we're not irrelevant like Missouri is. Ranked #161 should let everyone know where the progress of our basketball program is. And don't give me the shit about he was handed over a shitstorm of a program from Rick. Ray has had time to recruit and bring in big names to fill seats..... but he hasn't. Our women's basketball coach is running circles around Ray when it comes to recruiting. Ranked #161 is embarrassing.

[codeDawg]

If you believe we're significantly worse than Florida State, LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, and Vanderbilt, then you have to give Rick Ray credit for somehow pulling off these huge upsets, two of which were on the road.

You can't have it both ways. Either Ray has done a phenomenal coaching job since January by somehow beating 5 teams way better than us, or it's not that impressive because we're about as good as those 5 teams -- which means Ray has done a good job to close the gap.

Here is the problem. If the stats are what they are AND we have those upsets, then we are HUGELY inconsistent. We are ranked 231 in offensive efficiency. That's coaching.

ETA: Does anyone think there are 231 teams with a better offensive roster than ours? We're not getting the most out of what we have.

[codeDawg]

We're 5-7 in the sec, yet we're the worst team in the sec. We're tied for 8th place in the standing. How do these statisticians explain that?

I'm not saying we're good, but to say vandy is 114 spots better than us is ridiculous. So vandy should get an at large spot according to ken.

USCe being 64th is a joke.

These formulas they use seem to discredit in conference play altogether.

Rpi has kansas ahead of Kentucky. Kentucky beat Kansas by 32 on a neutral site.

Do you not see problems here?

Sure. All objective data is wrong. Your gut feel is right. Lets go with that and keep Ray around until he figures it out. I'm sure that's the best course of action here.

[bulldawg28]

If you believe we're significantly worse than Florida State, LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, and Vanderbilt, then you have to give Rick Ray credit for somehow pulling off these huge upsets, two of which were on the road.

You can't have it both ways. Either Ray has done a phenomenal coaching job since January by somehow beating 5 teams way better than us, or it's not that impressive because we're about as good as those 5 teams -- which means Ray has done a good job to close the gap.

Preach!!!

[msstate7]

Sure. All objective data is wrong. Your gut feel is right. Lets go with that and keep Ray around until he figures it out. I'm sure that's the best course of action here.

So you think vandy is 114 spots better than us?

[chef dixon]

RPI is garbage. You can get your ass beat up and down the court all season but if RPI thinks you played a tough schedule you'll be ranked pretty well. Ole Miss has benefitted from perceived strength of schedule over the last 5 years or so, keeping their RPI somewhere always between 40-60.

[codeDawg]

So you think vandy is 114 spots better than us?

I think over the season, Vandy has been a much better team. The offensive statistics prove that out.

[Schultzy]

Here is the problem. If the stats are what they are AND we have those upsets, then we are HUGELY inconsistent. We are ranked 231 in offensive efficiency. That's coaching.

ETA: Does anyone think there are 231 teams with a better offensive roster than ours? We're not getting the most out of what we have.
Inconsistency on offense is what you get when you have a roster full of guys that can't shoot. That's not all coaching. Ray has only had two years to recruit to a program with a depleted roster and this third class is much higher in quality.

Getting this team to five wins in conference with this roster is getting a hell of a lot out of what we have.

[Schultzy]

I think over the season, Vandy has been a much better team. The offensive statistics prove that out.

Having your best player (Sword) out for the first several weeks of the season and your best JC recruit (Zuppardo)!go down with an ACL was devastating to this team early on.
You may not want to hear excuses but this kind of stuff has to be considered if you want to use season long statistics. I think the rankings are suspect at best when you consider the difference in us with Sword or without him.
Hell, even the tournament committee weighs seedings and invites heavily based on the health of one player on teams every year.

[engie]

I really love the Pomeroy ratings. But not how you are attempting to use them right now. I'm with Schultzy and Quaoars -- The "Reality" of our program is a bit better than the numbers right now. That's not to say it's where we want and need it to be...

Does that mean anyone is satisfied? Of course not. I don't think anyone is even truly confident that Ray is the guy now, although there is both positives and negatives that each side will push to promote their position. To me the worst case scenario for "getting people on board" seems to be coming to fruition. He's going to win enough that you can't fire him in good faith yet. But he's not going to win enough to unite the fanbase. The bottom line is that winning as many SEC games in year 3 as you did in the first 2 combined is progress. It may not be(isn't) fast enough for anyone to be "happy" with where we are -- but it's progress nonetheless. Hard to fire a coach with a team going uphill....

[codeDawg]

Hard to fire a coach with a team going uphill....

http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/jpg/4f115582985999b0e71fa63c64fdcb35c0f4344.jpg

[engie]

So you would have fired Croom at 8-5?

[codeDawg]

So you would have fired Croom at 8-5?

I'm saying we have a chance identify a bad hire early before he leads of down a path of underperforming teams. This isn't our guy.

[engie]

I'm saying we have a chance identify a bad hire early before he leads of down a path of underperforming teams. This isn't our guy.

You can't be the statistical(logical) guy you come off as if you actually believe it's the correct time to fire a coach that's still got a chance to go .500 in the SEC in year 3 -- with what we have coming in/coming back next year. He may not be the guy -- but he hasn't proven that nearly conclusively enough to actually fire him yet.

For it to be logical to fire him this year, he needed to have another year about as bad as the last two. Instead, since we got semi-healthy, he's shown significant, marked improvement. That doesn't mean we are where we need to be.

[codeDawg]

[QUOTE=engie;333377till got a chance to go .500 in the SEC[/QUOTE]

That feat would actually make me take notice, but we're 5-7 right now with 6 games left. Three of those games are against the 1, 3, and 4 teams in the conference and two of the other three are on the road. I would predict we go 3-3 at best in that series. I admire the optimism, but that's just not based on reality.

[bluelightstar]

That feat would actually make me take notice, but we're 5-7 right now with 6 games left. Three of those games are against the 1, 3, and 4 teams in the conference and two of the other three are on the road. I would predict we go 3-3 at best in that series. I admire the optimism, but that's just not based on reality.

We're not going .500. I think we all know that.

[chef dixon]

You can't be the statistical(logical) guy you come off as if you actually believe it's the correct time to fire a coach that's still got a chance to go .500 in the SEC in year 3 -- with what we have coming in/coming back next year. He may not be the guy -- but he hasn't proven that nearly conclusively enough to actually fire him yet.

For it to be logical to fire him this year, he needed to have another year about as bad as the last two. Instead, since we got semi-healthy, he's shown significant, marked improvement. That doesn't mean we are where we need to be.

I'm with you on the fact that we are markedly better than we were the last two years and it shows with our competitiveness. What worries me is that its probably just natural progression of multiple players that have started 3 years that is responsible for our improvement and not our coaching leadership. Our turnover numbers are atrocious and some of our schemes equally bad. The cold hard truth is we are a 19-13 basketball team this season if disciplined. I guess we will have at least one more year to see if it can change.

[msstate7]

We're not going .500. I think we all know that.

Maybe, maybe not. We're 5-7 with 6 to go. We play OM, ark, kentucky, at USCe, at vandy, and mizzou. We've already beat 2 of those teams. We played OM very well at their place, but lost by 6. If we can get the upset thurs night, we only have to beat 3 teams that we're ahead of in sec standings.

[engie]

That feat would actually make me take notice, but we're 5-7 right now with 6 games left. Three of those games are against the 1, 3, and 4 teams in the conference and two of the other three are on the road. I would predict we go 3-3 at best in that series. I admire the optimism, but that's just not based on reality.

We've already lost those games? I missed where I claimed that we would win them -- but it's impossible to have a discussion with most of you sky is falling crowd without you interpreting random phantom positions to argue against. You saying "it's not going to happen and is not based in reality" is, in what way, more logical than me saying "there's still a chance"?

Fact is -- 9-9 in the league isn't going to make you take notice. You've already ignored the improvement that is currently being made -- what is one more win going to change? Not a thing.

Bottom line -- I don't even understand the purpose of dissent at this point. Ray isn't going to lose out -- and after the wins he's put together and the progress he's shown, he's going to be here next year. I'm not convinced he's going to be the guy. But you are wasting your breath trying to fight the battle that he should be gone right now. We fired Croom at exactly the right time -- and, when it comes down to it, I'm confident Stricklin will do the same with Ray. Now is not the right time.

[codeDawg]

Now is not the right time.

Welcome to self-inflicted basketball purgatory. For once we have both football and baseball to get us through.

[Coach34]

Even if he goes 3-3 down the stretch- thats 8-10 in the SEC this season and a very much improved basketball team. There is no way in hell you fire him then. Especially when the team overcame 2 back surgeries, an ACL tear, and Ware missing a couple of games.

[msstate7]

Even if he goes 3-3 down the stretch- thats 8-10 in the SEC this season and a very much improved basketball team. There is no way in hell you fire him then. Especially when the team overcame 2 back surgeries, an ACL tear, and Ware missing a couple of games.

If we finished 6-0 (not happening), there would still be a ton here calling for ray's firing.

[ScottH]

There is improvement.

Not as much as I would have hoped by year 3. But improvement nonetheless.

The most frustrating thing is if we have the games back we should have won - Tulane, Oregon State, Arky State, SC whatever, Bama and maybe TCU this team is sniffing the NIT.

[Coach34]

with 4 of those games back we would absolutely be NIT-bound...that's what to the sux about the early season injuries and our G's not being full speed- it was a killer to the season

[msstate7]

There is improvement.

Not as much as I would have hoped by year 3. But improvement nonetheless.

The most frustrating thing is if we have the games back we should have won - Tulane, Oregon State, Arky State, SC whatever, Bama and maybe TCU this team is sniffing the NIT.

I agree with this. Although injuries certainly played a part in those losses, we should've won a few of them anyway.

Ray cannot stumble out of the box next season. We have to beat the teams we're supposed to beat

[engie]

Welcome to self-inflicted basketball purgatory. For once we have both football and baseball to get us through.

"Welcome"? I've been here for a decade now.

[Intramural All-American]

Here is the problem. If the stats are what they are AND we have those upsets, then we are HUGELY inconsistent. We are ranked 231 in offensive efficiency. That's coaching.

ETA: Does anyone think there are 231 teams with a better offensive roster than ours? We're not getting the most out of what we have.

We're also 81 in scoring defense, good for 5th in the SEC. That's also coaching, right? As others have said, it's hard to teach offense when the players can't shoot.

[EMDawg]

Even if he goes 3-3 down the stretch- thats 8-10 in the SEC this season and a very much improved basketball team. There is no way in hell you fire him then. Especially when the team overcame 2 back surgeries, an ACL tear, and Ware missing a couple of games.

hopefully our AD wants to win more than some of the fans. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm not satisfied with mediocre basketball. I want SEC titles, NCAA runs, big time wins... This shit has to stop. Bullshit with 8-10 in the SEC. Btw it's more along the lines of 6-11 most likely. If he comes back, I have no faith that he can get beyond mediocre. It's time to cut ties and move on. The only way I would even give him a shot would be if he signed Newman.