I just still dont understand the bitter Stands supporters

[Coach34]

Nobody likes losing. Nobody is happy about the state of the program currently. We have traded constant drama and embarrassment around the program for losing on the court and falling to the bottom of the SEC. It sux.

But how anybody can claim Stands needed another year is beyond me. I dont get it. The team full of Sword, Fred, Ware, Wendell Lewis, and Jalen Steele was going to be a shitty one no matter who coached it. But besides that:

I cant fathom how anybody can try to justify giving Stands another year after Renardo Sidney. Think about this and the lack of control our HC had- we had to leave Sidney behind to stay here in the States when our team went to Europe to bond and play in the Fall. Why did we have to leave him behind you ask? Because we were terrified he would be drug tested by the NCAA on the trip- as teams are subject to be. How can you be so powerless as a HC to allow that to stay on your team? The embarrassment of the stories of Sidney going to "workout" with John Lucas??? Moultrie being suspended for failing multiple drug tests. You dont get a 3 game suspension for one failed test ya know. If you cant see that a change HAD TO BE MADE after all that- I just dont know what to tell you. Getting rid of Sidney wasnt going to make it get better- Sidney didnt make the other guys do drugs. Ray had to kick 2 others off for multiple failed tests once he got the job. It wasnt going to get any better under Stands.

Lastly- before you bash Stricklin again- think about that. He just got rid of a coach that had let things get so bad- nobody on the damn team could pass a drug test. He had just had a HC come to him and explain he was leaving one of his starting basketball players behind on the Europe trip because he was too much of a drug risk. But that he was still going to keep him on the team. So when Strick was having to make another hire- you can bet all this played a part in his decision-making.

Ray may not be the answer- but we made the correct decision in making the coaching change. We dont have the drama surrounding our program anymore and that is tremendous improvement. We just have to get more talented players on campus- whomever can do that and coach them.

[STATEBALLIN]

Nobody likes losing. Nobody is happy about the state of the program currently. We have traded constant drama and embarrassment around the program for losing on the court and falling to the bottom of the SEC. It sux.

But how anybody can claim Stands needed another year is beyond me. I dont get it. The team full of Sword, Fred, Ware, Wendell Lewis, and Jalen Steele was going to be a shitty one no matter who coached it. But besides that:

I cant fathom how anybody can try to justify giving Stands another year after Renardo Sidney. Think about this and the lack of control our HC had- we had to leave Sidney behind to stay here in the States when our team went to Europe to bond and play in the Fall. Why did we have to leave him behind you ask? Because we were terrified he would be drug tested by the NCAA on the trip- as teams are subject to be. How can you be so powerless as a HC to allow that to stay on your team? The embarrassment of the stories of Sidney going to "workout" with John Lucas??? Moultrie being suspended for failing multiple drug tests. You dont get a 3 game suspension for one failed test ya know. If you cant see that a change HAD TO BE MADE after all that- I just dont know what to tell you. Getting rid of Sidney wasnt going to make it get better- Sidney didnt make the other guys do drugs. Ray had to kick 2 others off for multiple failed tests once he got the job. It wasnt going to get any better under Stands.

Lastly- before you bash Stricklin again- think about that. He just got rid of a coach that had let things get so bad- nobody on the damn team could pass a drug test. He had just had a HC come to him and explain he was leaving one of his starting basketball players behind on the Europe trip because he was too much of a drug risk. But that he was still going to keep him on the team. So when Strick was having to make another hire- you can bet all this played a part in his decision-making.

Ray may not be the answer- but we made the correct decision in making the coaching change. We dont have the drama surrounding our program anymore and that is tremendous improvement. We just have to get more talented players on campus- whomever can do that and coach them.

They won't be happy until ray is gone which implies stricklin was wrong. Simple as that. Ignorance imo but the way it is.

I think some egos were compromised because they felt a false sense of power within the program that they want to contain and restore with Ray being let go.

JMO

[msstate7]

Barring a complete meltdown to finish this season, I want to give ray one more year. Give Ray a chance to sink or swim with the class he got when he started here. Ray will have his most talented recruit (weatherspoon), senior laden team, and Lord willing, a healthy roster. If ray can't get us in the ncaa, he probably never will and it'll be time to move on

[War Machine Dawg]

"University of Stands" is about the most accurate description of that crowd I've seen. Typical coach first, MSU second bullshit from our fans. Look at Polk/Cohen.

[Saltydog]

Phil Turner as well?

[Coach34]

Phil Turner was sent a letter by Stands telling him he wasnt welcome to return for his 5th year and was cut from the team. Not face to face or even a phone call- a letter in the mail.

[Saltydog]

nt

[Acid mouth]

Nobody likes losing. Nobody is happy about the state of the program currently. We have traded constant drama and embarrassment around the program for losing on the court and falling to the bottom of the SEC. It sux.

But how anybody can claim Stands needed another year is beyond me. I dont get it. The team full of Sword, Fred, Ware, Wendell Lewis, and Jalen Steele was going to be a shitty one no matter who coached it. But besides that:

I cant fathom how anybody can try to justify giving Stands another year after Renardo Sidney. Think about this and the lack of control our HC had- we had to leave Sidney behind to stay here in the States when our team went to Europe to bond and play in the Fall. Why did we have to leave him behind you ask? Because we were terrified he would be drug tested by the NCAA on the trip- as teams are subject to be. How can you be so powerless as a HC to allow that to stay on your team? The embarrassment of the stories of Sidney going to "workout" with John Lucas??? Moultrie being suspended for failing multiple drug tests. You dont get a 3 game suspension for one failed test ya know. If you cant see that a change HAD TO BE MADE after all that- I just dont know what to tell you. Getting rid of Sidney wasnt going to make it get better- Sidney didnt make the other guys do drugs. Ray had to kick 2 others off for multiple failed tests once he got the job. It wasnt going to get any better under Stands.

Lastly- before you bash Stricklin again- think about that. He just got rid of a coach that had let things get so bad- nobody on the damn team could pass a drug test. He had just had a HC come to him and explain he was leaving one of his starting basketball players behind on the Europe trip because he was too much of a drug risk. But that he was still going to keep him on the team. So when Strick was having to make another hire- you can bet all this played a part in his decision-making.

Ray may not be the answer- but we made the correct decision in making the coaching change. We dont have the drama surrounding our program anymore and that is tremendous improvement. We just have to get more talented players on campus- whomever can do that and coach them.

I can't read all your gibberish



ok- when you do- come back and respond to what I said.

Thanks,

C34

[shannondawg]

If I was Stansbury I would get a restraining order for Coach. I wonder if Coach stalked him while he was here. Obsession comes to mind, and then I ask myself why? Could it be his love affair with Richard Williams?

[HoopsDawg]

Really Coach, you don't understand the bitterness on this board?

I will explain it to you. The bitterness comes from the fact that people perceive this as your board and you were on a one man, 5 year mission to get Stans fired. You got your way and this mess is the result. Now more people are interested in Women's Hoops than Men's Hoops. Our program is decimated. There were several posters that warned against your line of thinking saying things like: look what happened at Arkansas, look what happened at AU, well now we are at those levels and below.

Stans should have been given one more year for 2 reasons:

1) give him a chance to put the Sidney Show behind him and move forward or
2) give our AD a chance to have a legit coach lined up

[drunkernhelldawg]

It's really ridiculous to keep spinning this stuff out. We had the dominant program in our region with Stans. We blew it up because you and others said we had to. Ancient, though sad, history to me. Tired of your constant justifications for the crater you and others left where The Hump once stood. Blah blah blah.

I think Ray is doing a good job. Firing him now would only compound the original error. When he says it's year one, I know exactly what he means: He means that he just now finally has the pieces to put a competitive team on the floor. That's why I think he should get at least two more years.

[Liverpooldawg]

I'll add 3). Firing the winningest coach in your program's history after a 20 win NIT season unless you are Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, or UNC is not going to make coaches want your job.

[TheDogFather]

Phil Turner was sent a letter by Stands telling him he wasnt welcome to return for his 5th year and was cut from the team. Not face to face or even a phone call- a letter in the mail.

It doesn't matter the personnel, you will always side against Stansbury. Just another in a long line of your very own hypocritical posts. You Stansbury anti-bias is exponentially stronger than anyone's Stansbury support.

It is well documented that Turner indicated to the compliance office, the coaching staff, and multiple administrators that he wasn't coming back - Turner even came back and said as much himself. Turner did not enroll in summer school which, while not required, is the norm. Turner skipped two season ending team meetings - Screw the fact that one ended up being cancelled because he wasn't showing up either way. Basically gave the coaching staff "the bird". Turner reaped what he sowed, a pink slip. My employer doesn't give a kindergartener's pep talk and rub on the head when someone leaves or gets fired either.

But of course you can't bring this up because it won't fit your narrative.

This entire thread is bullshit stirred up by you because every other successful SEC men's basketball team is using message boards to discuss their team performance and support for a decent program. And we don't have anything else to talk about.

How about you starting a thread pointing out how shitty our basketball team and basketball coach is TODAY. The "bitterness" is your unending drivel made up to demean the man every time his name shows up on this board. And when it doesn't show up for a while you bring out the shit stirrer. This thread is the perfect example.

[Saltydog]

would have likely been it anyway..........
The team full of Sword, Fred, Ware, Wendell Lewis, and Jalen Steele was going to be a shitty one no matter who coached it.

[msstate7]

would have likely been it anyway..........
The team full of Sword, Fred, Ware, Wendell Lewis, and Jalen Steele was going to be a shitty one no matter who coached it.

Gray would've been on that team. Hood may have

[Coach34]

Really Coach, you don't understand the bitterness on this board?

I will explain it to you. The bitterness comes from the fact that people perceive this as your board and you were on a one man, 5 year mission to get Stans fired. You got your way and this mess is the result. Now more people are interested in Women's Hoops than Men's Hoops. Our program is decimated. There were several posters that warned against your line of thinking saying things like: look what happened at Arkansas, look what happened at AU, well now we are at those levels and below.

Stans should have been given one more year for 2 reasons:

1) give him a chance to put the Sidney Show behind him and move forward or
2) give our AD a chance to have a legit coach lined up

As I clearly pointed out- the Sidney Show was not the only problem within our program. Rampant drug use was throughout. Deville was so bad off even he was run off because he was in such rough shape. The social media meltdowns calling Stands out.The constant revolving door in the program. Lack of S&C. And on and on.

Strick made the hire he did to completely get away from that and it wouldnt have mattered if Stands had another year or not. Had we hired Payne- there is certainly no doubt that we would have more talent on campus than we do now. Can he coach it- who knows? Strick made a hiring decision to go completely away from what we had been doing from a recruiting standpoint.

Thats not my fault.
Thats not a reflection on what type of coach we could have hired

Thats a direct result of the decision by the AD

But as I pointed out in the original post- Stands had to go. It was a complete no-brainer. The kind of shit that was going on within the program was ridiculous.

[rabbitthedawg]

let it go Coach...let it go!

[EMDawg]

I can only remember the Sidney Hawaii incident as far as embarrassments. I remember a lot of winning, disappointments at times, and loud, sold out games at the hump.

You know what's embarrassing... 9 f'n points in a half and your opponent being able to buy court side seats at tip.

They should have had something lined up before Stans was fired. I hope that is what's going on now. The only way he deserves another year is if he gets Newman's signature.

[K9 Avenger]

They won't be happy until ray is gone which implies stricklin was wrong. Simple as that. Ignorance imo but the way it is.

I think some egos were compromised because they felt a false sense of power within the program that they want to contain and restore with Ray being let go.

JMO
This is spot on...don't forget that many of the same egos that helped Stans have refused to help Ray...all out of spite. Pride goeth before the fall...

[Coach34]

Gray would've been on that team. Hood may have

Hood was gone

The same Gray that has lost his starting job at LSU and averages 1.5 more turnover per game than Ready? You think having him would have been a good thing?

[Acid mouth]

I can't read all your gibberish



ok- when you do- come back and respond to what I said.

Thanks,

C34

Can't stand the truth so u edit a reasonable response to your OP. What a sissy. Stans living rent free in your head still??

[HoopsDawg]

As I clearly pointed out- the Sidney Show was not the only problem within our program. Rampant drug use was throughout. Deville was so bad off even he was run off because he was in such rough shape. The social media meltdowns calling Stands out.The constant revolving door in the program. Lack of S&C. And on and on.

Strick made the hire he did to completely get away from that and it wouldnt have mattered if Stands had another year or not. Had we hired Payne- there is certainly no doubt that we would have more talent on campus than we do now. Can he coach it- who knows? Strick made a hiring decision to go completely away from what we had been doing from a recruiting standpoint.

Thats not my fault.
Thats not a reflection on what type of coach we could have hired

Thats a direct result of the decision by the AD

But as I pointed out in the original post- Stands had to go. It was a complete no-brainer. The kind of shit that was going on within the program was ridiculous.

College basketball players on our team were smoking weed? Oh my gosh what a disaster. No one smoked more weed than Bullard and Dontae Jones.

[Coach34]

This is spot on...don't forget that many of the same egos that helped Stans have refused to help Ray...all out of spite. Pride goeth before the fall...

And this is the heart of the matter.

Many of these guys havent supported Ray for 1 second- and pulled back their monetary support with it. But they want to bitch when we arent getting the same results.

[bobcat91]

I don't see anyone but a handful of folks on here saying they wanted Stansbury to be the HC here. Almost everyone said that it was time for him to go, me included. The real problem is that Stricklin had no plan when Stans was forced out. And make no bones about it, this was a disastrous hire that has lead us to the bottom of the league. We gutted the schedule so that we could get win totals to make it look like we were progressing but everyone can see that: our SOS is the worst in the league. Anyone who is truly objective sees that were are a poorly coached team and the worst fact is that OM has passed us as a program. That is why most of us are pissed about the program, not that Stans was forced out but that we suck and it never had to happen.

[Coach34]

College basketball players on our team were smoking weed? Oh my gosh what a disaster. No one smoked more weed than Bullard and Dontae Jones.

who said it was just weed? And why isnt drug use rampant in the football program??? Baseball program??

[HoopsDawg]

Hood was gone

The same Gray that has lost his starting job at LSU and averages 1.5 more turnover per game than Ready? You think having him would have been a good thing?

The Hood was gone propaganda is a straight out falsehood. Hood even decided to give Ray a chance to keep him. After one workout Hood said, nah this ain't for me. I'm not going to debate this issue with you, but that is just flat out wrong.

[Coach34]

Can't stand the truth so u edit a reasonable response to your OP. What a sissy. Stans living rent free in your head still??

What truth- you said you didnt read what I wrote. Ok. Go read it and respond to it. Dont post a bunch of crap

[chef dixon]

There is no reason at all to even reply in threads like this.

[HoopsDawg]

who said it was just weed? And why isnt drug use rampant in the football program??? Baseball program??

I know you aren't this dumb. Why isn't drug use rampant in the NFL, MLB but it is in the NBA? B/C testing for weed in the NBA is a dealbreaker for the players association. Basketball players love their weed, they just do. We never really lost any good players to drugs for more than a couple of games.

[Acid mouth]

What truth- you said you didnt read what I wrote. Ok. Go read it and respond to it. Dont post a bunch of crap

Then don't edit my post when it doesn't offend anyone other than people that hates Stans. In the past I said that Stans must have slept with your wife. I was at the AU football game and I retract my statement. Now that is edit worthy. Good day coach

[SDDawg]

Nobody likes losing. Nobody is happy about the state of the program currently. We have traded constant drama and embarrassment around the program for losing on the court and falling to the bottom of the SEC. It sux.

But how anybody can claim Stands needed another year is beyond me...

Ray may not be the answer- but we made the correct decision in making the coaching change. We dont have the drama surrounding our program anymore and that is tremendous improvement. We just have to get more talented players on campus- whomever can do that and coach them.

You can't explain the unexplainable. These are people that by and large wish they were born into OM stock: it's the "crootin' is everything" crowd run amok. Has nothing to do with making Mississippi State University a better university and that's sad.

[Coach34]

The Hood was gone propaganda is a straight out falsehood. Hood even decided to give Ray a chance to keep him. After one workout Hood said, nah this ain't for me. I'm not going to debate this issue with you, but that is just flat out wrong.

http://cdispatch.com/sports/article.asp?aid=17665#ixzz2vVwWlS8N

""It was just a long, tough year for me," Hood said in April when he announced his intention to transfer."

Rodney came home for a weekend with the family and after lots of talking he decided he wanted to ask for a release from his basketball scholarship at Mississippi State," Ricky Hood said in MSU's official

release in April. "He said it's been a long, hard, and difficult year at Mississippi State as far as basketball is concerned. He's enjoyed the atmosphere and academic side of Mississippi State, but he didn't know if he could be fair to coach Ray and be 100 percent committed."

[HoopsDawg]

You can't explain the unexplainable. These are people that by and large wish they were born into OM stock: it's the "crootin' is everything" crowd run amok. Has nothing to do with making Mississippi State University a better university and that's sad.

You just went full retard.

[SDDawg]

You just went full retard.

So you're saying if Ray signed Malik that this wouldn't all go away? Who is being the retard?

[msstate7]

Hood was gone

The same Gray that has lost his starting job at LSU and averages 1.5 more turnover per game than Ready? You think having him would have been a good thing?

Never said gray would've made us better. Just stated gray would've been on team

[HoopsDawg]

You forgot this quote after our last game:

“Next year, we’re going to be ready,” Hood said after that game.

[HoopsDawg]

So you're saying if Ray signed Malik that this wouldn't all go away? Who is being the retard?

By and large people wish they were born into Ole Miss stock? that's one of the dumbest statements I have ever read.

We aren't signing Malik bub.

[Coach34]

Then don't edit my post when it doesn't offend anyone other than people that hates Stans. In the past I said that Stans must have slept with your wife. I was at the AU football game and I retract my statement. Now that is edit worthy. Good day coach

And this is what I'm talking about.

It has to turn personal with the University of Stands people because they dont have anything else. Stands is more important to them than the actual school. Never seen anything like it. It's cult-ish

[Coach34]

You forgot this quote after our last game:

“Next year, we’re going to be ready,” Hood said after that game.

That quote was also made before he knew Sidney and Deville werent going to be allowed back. You dont think it's possible he looked at what was left and said there is no ****ing way I'm staying here with what's left???

[Liverpooldawg]

This is spot on...don't forget that many of the same egos that helped Stans have refused to help Ray...all out of spite. Pride goeth before the fall...

Maybe if certain folks had supported Stans instead of trying to get him fired for 5 years it might have........that works both ways. The open defiance on the bench started well after the smear campaign started.

[Coach34]

Maybe if certain folks had supported Stans instead of trying to get him fired for 5 years it might have........that works both ways. The open defiance on the bench started well after the smear campaign started.

You mean like Timmy Bowers telling the CL that he didnt want to run what Stands had called in the huddle during the time-out to win the Bama game in 2005- and just did what he wanted??? Or Gary Ervin?

The simple difference was that group had alot more character than what came after them

[Raytoraid83]

*clicks thread* **vomits everywhere**

[HoopsDawg]

That quote was also made before he knew Sidney and Deville werent going to be allowed back. You dont think it's possible he looked at what was left and said there is no ****ing way I'm staying here with what's left???

I really don't care about this debate anymore or the semantics of the situation. I was simply replying to your original post which showed a complete lack of self-awareness.

[SDDawg]

By and large people wish they were born into Ole Miss stock? that's one of the dumbest statements I have ever read.

We aren't signing Malik bub.

No shit on Malik, but thanks for showing your "inside" knowledge. Listen BUB, just because you show your ass on a message board it doesn't mean that what I'm saying isn't accurate. Stans was a recruiter and nothing more. Most people know that- sorry you don't.

[drunkernhelldawg]

No shit on Malik, but thanks for showing your "inside" knowledge. Listen BUB, just because you show your ass on a message board it doesn't mean that what I'm saying isn't accurate. Stans was a recruiter and nothing more. Most people know that- sorry you don't.

Here y'all go again: Throwing out the idea that Stans was not an actual coach. How can we ever make it stop? Pretty incredible that a person who can't coach had a winning record vs. every team in Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Arkansas over a long tenure. Coaches are apparently not needed. It's all luck.

[DancingRabbit]

While I disagreed with C34's years of attacks on Stans, and while he did have the power to make SPS basically unreadable for long stretches, I think it's a stretch to say he influenced the attitudes of players. I also think it's a stretch to say that Scott Stricklin and Mark Keenum "fired" Stans because of C34's constant criticism.

Technically Stans wasn't fired, right? I certainly have no insider knowledge but reading between the lines of all published reports and messageboard chatter I think Keenum and Strick were surprised and caught off guard when Stans took the retirement offer. Keenum gets tired of public embarrassments and inside reports that concern him, so he and Strick put together a list of requirements for Stans and what the consequences are for not meeting those - or if he's tired of all the BS he can take a nice retirement package.

Stans says "**** y'all, I've been around here way longer than either of you, you can't give me ultimatums" and walks away. I would guess that Strick had discussions with agents of several possible candidates and had a plan that didn't include Ray, and for various reasons Plans A,B,C and D evaporated. In the best circumstances it's never appealing to be the first guy to follow a legend. We didn't have the SECN money yet, so we couldn't money whip the top candidates enough to overcome their hesitation. Maybe the well was poisoned by the pro-Stans crowd too.

At this point if good candidates are available and interested, I would pull the plug on Ray. Seems like a good guy, but that has little to do with succeeding in college basketball. The next coach doesn't have to follow a successful "legend" and we have the funds to money-whip them if they are the right candidate.

All that may be totally wrong, but that's my theory until something convinces me differently.

And while it serves no productive purpose, I can't really blame anyone for busting C34's balls for starting a thread complaining about Rick Ray "complainers".

[Coach34]

While I disagreed with C34's years of attacks on Stans, and while he did have the power to make SPS basically unreadable for long stretches, I think it's a stretch to say he influenced the attitudes of players. I also think it's a stretch to say that Scott Stricklin and Mark Keenum "fired" Stans because of C34's constant criticism.

Technically Stans wasn't fired, right? I certainly have no insider knowledge but reading between the lines of all published reports and messageboard chatter I think Keenum and Strick were surprised and caught off guard when Stans took the retirement offer. Keenum gets tired of public embarrassments and inside reports that concern him, so he and Strick put together a list of requirements for Stans and what the consequences are for not meeting those - or if he's tired of all the BS he can take a nice retirement package.

Stans says "**** y'all, I've been around here way longer than either of you, you can't give me ultimatums" and walks away. I would guess that Strick had discussions with agents of several possible candidates and had a plan that didn't include Ray, and for various reasons Plans A,B,C and D evaporated. In the best circumstances it's never appealing to be the first guy to follow a legend. We didn't have the SECN money yet, so we couldn't money whip the top candidates enough to overcome their hesitation. Maybe the well was poisoned by the pro-Stans crowd too.

At this point if good candidates are available and interested, I would pull the plug on Ray. Seems like a good guy, but that has little to do with succeeding in college basketball. The next coach doesn't have to follow a successful "legend" and we have the funds to money-whip them if they are the right candidate.

All that may be totally wrong, but that's my theory until something convinces me differently.

And while it serves no productive purpose, I can't really blame anyone for busting C34's balls for starting a thread complaining about Rick Ray "complainers".

now this is a quality post

[IMissJack]

These people are stupid, no You're stupid, bla bla bla. Slow day on the newsroom run controversial political story. Slow day on ED run a Stans post.

[Liverpooldawg]

And this is the heart of the matter.

Many of these guys havent supported Ray for 1 second- and pulled back their monetary support with it. But they want to bitch when we arent getting the same results.

You have ZERO room to talk about not supporting a coach.

[Dawgface]

There is no reason at all to even reply in threads like this.

I'm afraid there will always be Stansbury threads. If we ever do get our program turned around, there will be the threads 'see I told y'all we could do better'. And if we keep losing, there will be more of these kind of threads. We are forever doomed for more Stansbury threads.

[shannondawg]

I was close to Stans, and can just speak for myself at the present, but never have I been contacted. Except for chasing a few stock prices, have never been one to throw good money after bad, so its just as well.


This is spot on...don't forget that many of the same egos that helped Stans have refused to help Ray...all out of spite. Pride goeth before the fall...

[dawgs]

who thought stans deserved more time? much like stans had to go, rick ray now has to go.

[Quaoarsking]

Can we put a moratorium on discussing Stans? No one is going to ever change their mind on him. Regardless of whether you think he should or shouldn't have been let go, it's over. He's gone. It's way past time to be debating on the present and not on the past.

[shannondawg]

Even Obama has stopped blaming Bush for his own shit show.

[msstate7]

Even Obama has stopped blaming Bush for his own shit show.

We should give ray 8 years too then***

I do want ray to get next year though

[engie]

While I disagreed with C34's years of attacks on Stans, and while he did have the power to make SPS basically unreadable for long stretches, I think it's a stretch to say he influenced the attitudes of players. I also think it's a stretch to say that Scott Stricklin and Mark Keenum "fired" Stans because of C34's constant criticism.

Technically Stans wasn't fired, right? I certainly have no insider knowledge but reading between the lines of all published reports and messageboard chatter I think Keenum and Strick were surprised and caught off guard when Stans took the retirement offer. Keenum gets tired of public embarrassments and inside reports that concern him, so he and Strick put together a list of requirements for Stans and what the consequences are for not meeting those - or if he's tired of all the BS he can take a nice retirement package.

Stans says "**** y'all, I've been around here way longer than either of you, you can't give me ultimatums" and walks away. I would guess that Strick had discussions with agents of several possible candidates and had a plan that didn't include Ray, and for various reasons Plans A,B,C and D evaporated. In the best circumstances it's never appealing to be the first guy to follow a legend. We didn't have the SECN money yet, so we couldn't money whip the top candidates enough to overcome their hesitation. Maybe the well was poisoned by the pro-Stans crowd too.

At this point if good candidates are available and interested, I would pull the plug on Ray. Seems like a good guy, but that has little to do with succeeding in college basketball. The next coach doesn't have to follow a successful "legend" and we have the funds to money-whip them if they are the right candidate.

All that may be totally wrong, but that's my theory until something convinces me differently.

And while it serves no productive purpose, I can't really blame anyone for busting C34's balls for starting a thread complaining about Rick Ray "complainers".

Best, most well-rounded basketball post I've ready in several months. Thanks for this one...

[engie]

I was close to Stans, and can just speak for myself at the present, but never have I been contacted. Except for chasing a few stock prices, have never been one to throw good money after bad, so its just as well.

This is a real travesty that I don't understand from Strick's side... Unless there was something that went on during the cohen transition period that made him decide that ardent supporters of the previous regime would just have to buy back in on their own schedule. Still a pretty big screw up on his part to not be making this phone call and at least attempting to mend fences(and trying to sell you a left field loft, lol)

[MabenMaroon]

*clicks thread* **vomits everywhere**

This, .... definitely this!

[tcdog70]

Whenever this board gets boring or slow 34 starts a Stans thread with the same shit different day .Forget Stans , post about the worst HC is the SEC and hammer his ass like you did Stans. If you didn't like having a top of the Sec basketball program how can you sleep at night with this piece of shit coach and record setting losers. You need counseling.

[mcdawg]

Really Coach, you don't understand the bitterness on this board?

I will explain it to you. The bitterness comes from the fact that people perceive this as your board and you were on a one man, 5 year mission to get Stans fired. You got your way and this mess is the result. Now more people are interested in Women's Hoops than Men's Hoops. Our program is decimated. There were several posters that warned against your line of thinking saying things like: look what happened at Arkansas, look what happened at AU, well now we are at those levels and below.

Stans should have been given one more year for 2 reasons:

1) give him a chance to put the Sidney Show behind him and move forward or
2) give our AD a chance to have a legit coach lined up

Absolutely. I cannot understand anyone still saying it was better to get rid of Stans. At the time since you didn't know the future, I can understand the argument. But "after seeing the future", I cannot understand anyone arguing it was the right decision. Our program would be in a better place - no question. The situation now is: men's basketball is irrelevant. Nobody goes to games and the Hump is dead - and it use to be so much fun and great to go. We get excited to beat a team that is 1-11 in the SEC. OM has passed us by, and they were never the better program with Stans here. I have paid my Bulldog dues and bought my 4 floor level tickets even though all my friends/relatives gave up. I have been to 3 games in 3 years and was bored to tears. Not one person has asked for my tickets. Plus, I have big State friends that don't even watch us on TV. I have watched one game on TV this year, and - again - was bored to tears. Coach - you asked for this and you continue to defend this crap. Have fun watching this team - you and a few others. And, you can buy my tickets and pay the dues next year, because I - along with many others - will not. (I do feel sorry for the guys who committed to our previous staff and have to live thru this.)

[msstate7]

Absolutely. I cannot understand anyone still saying it was better to get rid of Stans. At the time since you didn't know the future, I can understand the argument. But "after seeing the future", I cannot understand anyone arguing it was the right decision. Our program would be in a better place - no question. The situation now is: men's basketball is irrelevant. Nobody goes to games and the Hump is dead - and it use to be so much fun and great to go. We get excited to beat a team that is 1-11 in the SEC. OM has passed us by, and they were never the better program with Stans here. I have paid my Bulldog dues and bought my 4 floor level tickets even though all my friends/relatives gave up. I have been to 3 games in 3 years and was bored to tears. Not one person has asked for my tickets. Plus, I have big State friends that don't even watch us on TV. I have watched one game on TV this year, and - again - was bored to tears. Coach - you asked for this and you continue to defend this crap. Have fun watching this team - you and a few others. And, you can buy my tickets and pay the dues next year, because I - along with many others - will not. (I do feel sorry for the guys who committed to our previous staff and have to live thru this.)

Youve watched 1 game this year, huh? So in other words your opinion on our basketball team is strictly based on your feelings and nothing youve actually seen?

[mcdawg]

Youve watched 1 game this year, huh? So in other words your opinion on our basketball team is strictly based on your feelings and nothing youve actually seen?

It is based on the losing record, the lack of star players, our boring offense, etc. I use to plan around our games and now I have no interest in doing that. And, a lot of others have decided the same thing by the crowds and lack of interest. I am not going to waste my valuable time on watching. (I am actually watching the women's team, and I know when they are playing. Couldn't tell you when the guys are playing. Did you see the State-UK women's game the other night? A whole lot more fun to watch than the men's team - plus each win/loss means something. Our men's team - a win or a loss means nothing. Give me that back and I may reconsider.)

[Coach34]

OM has passed us by, and they were never the better program with Stans here.

2006-2007...State- 21-14...8-8...Ole Missus- 21-13...8-8
2007-2008...State- 23-11...12-4..Ole Missus- 24-11...7-9
2008-2009... State- 23-13..9-7...Ole Missus- 16-15...7-9
2009-2010...State- 24-12...9-7...Ole Missus- 24-11...9-7
2010-2011...State- 17-13...9-7...Ole Missus- 20-14...7-9
2011-2012...State- 21-12...8-8...Ole Missus- 20-13...8-8

Stands vs Kennedy head to head seasons:

Stands- 129-75...55-41 in the SEC
Kennedy- 125-73...46-50 in the SEC

So- the 6 years Stands and Kennedy went H2H Stands won 4 more overall games and 9 more SEC games. Thats pretty close to even

[Liverpooldawg]

All we had to do was get rid of Stans you said. You must be proud of what we have accomplished since you got your way.

[Coach34]

All we had to do was get rid of Stans you said. You must be proud of what we have accomplished since you got your way.

I didnt say thats "all we had to do"...but there are things that have gotten better since he left

[Liverpooldawg]

That was a direct quote from one night in Six Pack. What exactly in terms of wins and losses, the real bottom line, has got better?

[Coach34]

That was a direct quote from one night in Six Pack. What exactly in terms of wins and losses, the real bottom line, has got better?

please show me the quote??

The real bottom line is more than wins and losses.

[TimberBeast]

I didnt say thats "all we had to do"...but there are things that have gotten better since he left

Which things have gotten better? This is a shit show that you practically begged for and now you have it. At least be a man and admit that you were wrong.

[Liverpooldawg]

please show me the quote??

The real bottom line is more than wins and losses.

It was something like "anybody would be better than Stans" and all we had to do to get better was get rid of him. If the bottom line isn't wins and losses what is it then? You got what you wanted. Are you happy now?

[engie]

So was what coach said "a direct quote" -- or "something like"? And if it was "something like", why are you adding quotations to your own statement?

Coach said alot of outlandish stuff about Stans at times -- and I don't think even he would deny that -- but you still need to produce the source quote for the approach you took to arguing it.

[Liverpooldawg]

So was what coach said "a direct quote" -- or "something like"? And if it was "something like", why are you adding quotations to your own statement?

Coach said alot of outlandish stuff about Stans at times -- and I don't think even he would deny that -- but you still need to produce the source quote for the approach you took to arguing it.

Are you a lawyer? That was what he said. NOW I MIGHT HAVE MISSED A PERIOD OR A COMMA OR SOMETHING. I'm not NewYorkOperaDog, I don't file away links for use 3 years later. I'm glad he is happy with what he got. I wish I was.

[Bully13]

it's just a damned shame stans SO mis-evaluated sydney. it was his undoing. who knows what would have happened if he had just done the right thing and kicked sydney off the team after HI. no coach should EVER be that invested in one single player.

34 and others were just tired of no sweet 16's for so long then the sydney saga broke the camel's back.

hindsight's always 20/20 but it's looking very cutcliffesque at this point. we've definitely gone from a B+ to a D- team.

comparing the AU and UGA hires then seeing us pay 1M to Ray is a head scratcher. I miss being hated.

[engie]

Are you a lawyer? That was what he said. NOW I MIGHT HAVE MISSED A PERIOD OR A COMMA OR SOMETHING. I'm not NewYorkOperaDog, I don't file away links for use 3 years later. I'm glad he is happy with what he got. I wish I was.
I'm someone that recognizes incoherent/straw man arguments that are likely to devolve into psychobabble and more straw man arguments when challenged. Which you've now shown to be true multiple times in this thread. Now you are conveniently applying phantom positions to people that disagree with you. I'd ask you to link where Coach ever said "he is happy with what he got", but you've already proven that you'll call yourself "directly quoting" while unable to produce any evidence that the position ever existed in the first place. The reason, in this particular case, you can't produce that evidence -- is because it doesn't exist.

[mparkerfd20]

17 Rick Ray
17 Rick Stansbury
and 17 u Coach34 for continuing to bring this Shit up.

Stansbury did have to go. Rick Ray didn't have to be hired, but he was and now our program is even worse for it. Stans had to go cause the inmates ran the asylum. Ray has to go cause he can't coach for Crap.

[KB21]

Nobody likes losing. Nobody is happy about the state of the program currently. We have traded constant drama and embarrassment around the program for losing on the court and falling to the bottom of the SEC. It sux.

But how anybody can claim Stands needed another year is beyond me. I dont get it. The team full of Sword, Fred, Ware, Wendell Lewis, and Jalen Steele was going to be a shitty one no matter who coached it. But besides that:

I cant fathom how anybody can try to justify giving Stands another year after Renardo Sidney. Think about this and the lack of control our HC had- we had to leave Sidney behind to stay here in the States when our team went to Europe to bond and play in the Fall. Why did we have to leave him behind you ask? Because we were terrified he would be drug tested by the NCAA on the trip- as teams are subject to be. How can you be so powerless as a HC to allow that to stay on your team? The embarrassment of the stories of Sidney going to "workout" with John Lucas??? Moultrie being suspended for failing multiple drug tests. You dont get a 3 game suspension for one failed test ya know. If you cant see that a change HAD TO BE MADE after all that- I just dont know what to tell you. Getting rid of Sidney wasnt going to make it get better- Sidney didnt make the other guys do drugs. Ray had to kick 2 others off for multiple failed tests once he got the job. It wasnt going to get any better under Stands.

Lastly- before you bash Stricklin again- think about that. He just got rid of a coach that had let things get so bad- nobody on the damn team could pass a drug test. He had just had a HC come to him and explain he was leaving one of his starting basketball players behind on the Europe trip because he was too much of a drug risk. But that he was still going to keep him on the team. So when Strick was having to make another hire- you can bet all this played a part in his decision-making.

Ray may not be the answer- but we made the correct decision in making the coaching change. We dont have the drama surrounding our program anymore and that is tremendous improvement. We just have to get more talented players on campus- whomever can do that and coach them.

The bottom line is this. Rick had let the program get so bad that Scott was getting turned down by multiple mid major head coaches, and he knew nothing would change if he had done what some alumni/former players wanted and hired Kenny Payne. Rick Ray essentially took a job he was likely never going to be able to win with. The coach that succeeded Rick Stansbury was doomed to fail due to the mess he was inheriting, unless the administration is patient and gives them 5-6 years like Baylor did with Scott Drew.

[MSUDawg4Life]

17 Rick Ray
17 Rick Stansbury
and 17 u Coach34 for continuing to bring this Shit up.

Stansbury did have to go. Rick Ray didn't have to be hired, but he was and now our program is even worse for it. Stans had to go cause the inmates ran the asylum. Ray has to go cause he can't coach for Crap.

You know, I can actually agree with this. It's a rare MSU fan who can admit both things are true. Most think one or the other should have or should stick around.

[Liverpooldawg]

I'm someone that recognizes incoherent/straw man arguments that are likely to devolve into psychobabble and more straw man arguments when challenged. Which you've now shown to be true multiple times in this thread. Now you are conveniently applying phantom positions to people that disagree with you. I'd ask you to link where Coach ever said "he is happy with what he got", but you've already proven that you'll call yourself "directly quoting" while unable to produce any evidence that the position ever existed in the first place. The reason, in this particular case, you can't produce that evidence -- is because it doesn't exist.

Believe what makes you happy man. I bet you DO file away links for use years later. Good for you, lol. Bottom line: Men's basketball is way worse now than when we fired Stans by the only objective measure that matters, wins and losses. It's actually hilarious watching some of y'all trying to dance around that highly inconvenient fact.

[mcdawg]

2006-2007...State- 21-14...8-8...Ole Missus- 21-13...8-8
2007-2008...State- 23-11...12-4..Ole Missus- 24-11...7-9
2008-2009... State- 23-13..9-7...Ole Missus- 16-15...7-9
2009-2010...State- 24-12...9-7...Ole Missus- 24-11...9-7
2010-2011...State- 17-13...9-7...Ole Missus- 20-14...7-9
2011-2012...State- 21-12...8-8...Ole Missus- 20-13...8-8

Stands vs Kennedy head to head seasons:

Stands- 129-75...55-41 in the SEC
Kennedy- 125-73...46-50 in the SEC

So- the 6 years Stands and Kennedy went H2H Stands won 4 more overall games and 9 more SEC games. Thats pretty close to even

You left off the head-to-head record, and the overall record of Stans entire tenure versus OM. Add that and let's debate some more.

[shannondawg]

Its sad to say, but I was a lot more excited about Ole Miss losing last night, than I was about us winning yesterday. Ole Miss losing cost them, our winning did nothing for us. This is from a person whose week was affected by our wins and losses in the past.

Its not just about wins and losses, its about perception, And my perception is when we hit absolute rock bottom, maybe Stricklin will do something.

[msstate7]

Its sad to say, but I was a lot more excited about Ole Miss losing last night, than I was about us winning yesterday. Ole Miss losing cost them, our winning did nothing for us. This is from a person whose week was affected by our wins and losses in the past.

Its not just about wins and losses, its about perception, And my perception is when we hit absolute rock bottom, maybe Stricklin will do something.

Sorry, but that OM loss didn't hurt them that much. They're still in the tourney.

Seems this Thursday you're in a real pickle. Do you detest ray or Om more? OM loses to us and they're on the outside looking in. We win and ray has another quality win this year to get to .500 and 6-7 in the sec

[Schultzy]

The bottom line is this. Rick had let the program get so bad that Scott was getting turned down by multiple mid major head coaches, and he knew nothing would change if he had done what some alumni/former players wanted and hired Kenny Payne. Rick Ray essentially took a job he was likely never going to be able to win with. The coach that succeeded Rick Stansbury was doomed to fail due to the mess he was inheriting, unless the administration is patient and gives them 5-6 years like Baylor did with Scott Drew.


This is what I thought everyone would understand post Stansbury. I can't understand why people don't get this.

[shannondawg]

It took them out of 2nd place.

Read what I said. I just said I was more excited about their loss than our win. How the 17 do you construe that I would not be excited about their loss Thursday. You ditto heads amaze me.



Sorry, but that OM loss didn't hurt them that much. They're still in the tourney.

Seems this Thursday you're in a real pickle. Do you detest ray or Om more? OM loses to us and they're on the outside looking in. We win and ray has another quality win this year to get to .500 and 6-7 in the sec

[BiscuitEater]

I just still dont understand the bitter Stands supporter

MSU Basketball... I just never understood all the "bitter Stans haters" which you were the head cheerleader for.

Let it go ... Stans is gone. Meanwhile, you continue to bring up ALL of Stans faults almost three years after he has GONE.

Enough all ready.

[coastdoglover]

Amen, but his obsession is never ending. Let it go and enjoy what you wished for. Most of us have moved on.




MSU Basketball... I just never understood all the "bitter Stans haters" which you were the head cheerleader for.

Let it go ... Stans is gone. Meanwhile, you continue to bring up ALL of Stans faults almost three years after he has GONE.

Enough all ready.

[WinningIsRelentless]

MSU Basketball... I just never understood all the "bitter Stans haters" which you were the head cheerleader for.

Let it go ... Stans is gone. Meanwhile, you continue to bring up ALL of Stans faults almost three years after he has GONE.

Enough all ready.

That is because he said the job was a top 10 and we could get anyone we wanted.

[engie]

enjoy what you wished for. Most of us have moved on.

This is a perfect example of talking out of both sides of your mouth. If you had actually moved on, you wouldn't still be taking jabs under the pretense that what the program is right now, today, is "what anyone actually wished for". It isn't. Everyone understands that you were satisfied being a top 100 program into perpetuity like we were over the past 7 years -- that doesn't make anyone that aspired for more "wrong."

While coach apparently hasn't let it go -- it's pretty clear that almost no one on the other side of the fence has let it go yet either...

[engie]

That is because he said the job was a top 10 and we could get anyone we wanted.

Link?

[shannondawg]

If you will notice , all threads that are created on this subject just like today are the haters of Stansbury, mainly Coach, and if not about Stansbury, he will maneuver it toward him, and then the posters come in defense of Stansbury.

He may just do that to keep the activity on the board going, and if that was the only reason, my hats off to him, but its not I'm afraid. He has a serious problem, and its call Stanisphobia. I still think its about his love of Richard Williams and him thinking that Stansbury caused him to lose his job. Even in todays environment, being married and sleeping with one of the heaviest hitting boosters that is best friend of the AD teenage daughter ,ain't going to let you keep your job, especially if that said boosters wife has her hatchet out.l
But that's just my opinion.

[Acid mouth]

What truth- you said you didnt read what I wrote. Ok. Go read it and respond to it. Dont post a bunch of crap


MSU Basketball... I just never understood all the "bitter Stans haters" which you were the head cheerleader for.

Let it go ... Stans is gone. Meanwhile, you continue to bring up ALL of Stans faults almost three years after he has GONE.

Enough all ready.
It's called trolling the MSU basketball fans. This is what my ole miss friends do.

[Liverpooldawg]

This is a perfect example of talking out of both sides of your mouth. If you had actually moved on, you wouldn't still be taking jabs under the pretense that what the program is right now, today, is "what anyone actually wished for". It isn't. Everyone understands that you were satisfied being a top 100 program into perpetuity like we were over the past 7 years -- that doesn't make anyone that aspired for more "wrong."

While coach apparently hasn't let it go -- it's pretty clear that almost no one on the other side of the fence has let it go yet either...
He wanted Stans gone and he got his wish. Now the fall out from that wish may not have turned out like he imagined it would, but there is NO denying he got what he campaigned for for years.

[dawgs]

This is what I thought everyone would understand post Stansbury. I can't understand why people don't get this.

Baylor had impending huge ncaa problems looming, a MURDER lingering over the program, and was banned from playing non-conference games in drew's 3rd year. The baylor situation was exponentially worse than our situation. We had some bad apples and lacked some discipline. That's a pretty common problem among jobs where the coach is fired/forced out/strongly encouraged to retire or resign.

[dawgs]

I also hate that if you want to give ray more time, then you are a Stans hater, but if you want ray fired, then you are a Stans supporter. That's bullshit. I'm grateful for everything Stans did, but the last half decade of his tenure was just season after season of underachieving, and the Sidney shit was the nail in the coffin. Ray was a terrible hire with a lackluster resume from the get go and he hasn't shown anything to indicate he's going to be a successful HC. He's losing to swac teams with a core of 3rd year players and struggling to have a .500 overall record.

[Schultzy]

Baylor had impending huge ncaa problems looming, a MURDER lingering over the program, and was banned from playing non-conference games in drew's 3rd year. The baylor situation was exponentially worse than our situation. We had some bad apples and lacked some discipline. That's a pretty common problem among jobs where the coach is fired/forced out/strongly encouraged to retire or resign.
But our roster was depleted on that same level as theirs was and we were thought to be going on probation in coaching circles over the Sydney ordeal which can have the same affect as probation in hiring and recruiting, and did. So "exponentially " worse is hyperbole in my opinion.

[Coach34]

That is because he said the job was a top 10 and we could get anyone we wanted.

Who said the MSU job was a Top 10 job???????????????????

Also, I never said we could hire "anyone we wanted"...I said we could hire a good coach to replace him- but that was also before Stands let the program become "the most dysfunctional programin America" according to The Sporting News and us becoming a joke to the ESPN guys.

[Coach34]

I also hate that if you want to give ray more time, then you are a Stans hater, but if you want ray fired, then you are a Stans supporter. That's bullshit. .

Nobody is throwing you and some of the others that feel that way into the University of Stands group. The University of Stands people stand out like a sore thumb and always make themselves known. Hell, if Ray doesnt win anymore SEC games this year- I want him gone. But that doesnt put me in the University of Stands group.

[drunkernhelldawg]

Its sad to say, but I was a lot more excited about Ole Miss losing last night, than I was about us winning yesterday. Ole Miss losing cost them, our winning did nothing for us. This is from a person whose week was affected by our wins and losses in the past.

Its not just about wins and losses, its about perception, And my perception is when we hit absolute rock bottom, maybe Stricklin will do something.

That's messed up. You need to take some time and find a way to see things more objectively.

[dawgs]

But our roster was depleted on that same level as theirs was and we were thought to be going on probation in coaching circles over the Sydney ordeal which can have the same affect as probation in hiring and recruiting, and did. So "exponentially " worse is hyperbole in my opinion.

The Sidney shit was over by the time we were hiring a coach. The ncaa had done that investigation and suspended him early in his career and moved along. There was no pending investigation when Stans stepped down. Our roster might have been depleted, but we didn't have any of the other problems baylor had, which included a MURDER and an ongoing investigation that lingered for 2 years into drew's tenure and resulted in them being banned from playing non-conference games in year 3 (and a lot of talk of a death penalty before the big 12 lobbied to just ban them from non-conference games so that it wouldn't adversely affect the conference scheduling on short notice). That is all exponentially worse than simply rebuilding a roster and purging some bad eggs. Drew had to rebuild the roster while simultaneously dealing with all the other shit. Oh yeah, and baylor had no where near the success we had in the 20 years prior to Drew, so he couldn't even sell returning the program to relevancy, he had to sell recruits on simply making the program relevant along with all the other shit. Once the non-conference ban was done, it only took drew 2 years to build a ncaa team.

Some of y'all are really buying into the sales job on how bad our situation was. Our situation wasn't all that much different from a majority of P5 rebuild jobs when a coach is fired or forced out.

[Schultzy]

It was not over in the minds of the pool of coaches we were trying to hire. And it's not about Baylor anyway, with the shape Ray inherited the program, we shouldn't be further along than we are currently outside of landing a five star dominant player.

[dawgs]

It was not over in the minds of the pool of coaches we were trying to hire. And it's not about Baylor anyway, with the shape Ray inherited the program, we shouldn't be further along than we are currently outside of landing a five star dominant player.

Coaches knew the Sidney stuff was over. And with a core of juniors in the starting lineup, we absolutely should be better than we are. What are we gonna be next year when they are seniors? Competing for a top 100 rpi? Then start the building over again?

And it is about comparing us to baylor because someone point out that baylor took 5 or 6 years. Well yeah because they had a lot more to overcome INCLUDING the closest thing we've seen to a death penalty in major college sports since smu in year 3 of drew's tenure.

[Schultzy]

We have a good shooting big man coming off injury, couple of 4 stars signed and a base of seniors to help give them time to develop next year.
Of course we are improving and have very good talent on the way.

[Schultzy]

dawgs!...our situation wasn't that much different than other P5 rebuilds?!?!? We didn't even have enough people on the damn team to run a five on five friggin scrimmage the entire first year.

That is not just atypical but completely unheard of. This guy risked his entire coaching career to come try to save this dumpster after at least five others had turned it down. Some of you people need a sense of proportion here.

Bilas and others were actively campaigning for weeks on end in the bubble years to keep us out of the tournament because of how little they thought of our program. Right or wrong on Bilas' and other pundits part (Vitale) that's not good for MSU for national pundits to be blasting us day in and day out to keep us out of the tournament with as good of teams as we had back then.

[Liverpooldawg]

It was not over in the minds of the pool of coaches we were trying to hire. And it's not about Baylor anyway, with the shape Ray inherited the program, we shouldn't be further along than we are currently outside of landing a five star dominant player.

We had been investigated out the wazoo and totally cleared. They found nothing. We had no NCAA troubles of any kind. That was public knowledge, except among the people who wanted Stans gone. They refused to notice that.

[HoopsDawg]

dawgs!...our situation wasn't that much different than other P5 rebuilds?!?!? We didn't even have enough people on the damn team to run a five on five friggin scrimmage the entire first year.

That is not just atypical but completely unheard of. This guy risked his entire coaching career to come try to save this dumpster after at least five others had turned it down. Some of you people need a sense of proportion here.

Bilas and others were actively campaigning for weeks on end in the bubble years to keep us out of the tournament because of how little they thought of our program. Right or wrong on Bilas' and other pundits part (Vitale) that's not good for MSU for national pundits to be blasting us day in and day out to keep us out of the tournament with as good of teams as we had back then.

Bilas must have said 20 times on national TV that you can't put in a team that lost to Rider. Even though Rider was the first game of our season and we took 1 seed UK to overtime Twice including the SECT finals. At the same time he championed Utah St who had no quality wins. That MSU team deserved to be in the NCAAT.

[dawgs]

dawgs!...our situation wasn't that much different than other P5 rebuilds?!?!? We didn't even have enough people on the damn team to run a five on five friggin scrimmage the entire first year.

That is not just atypical but completely unheard of. This guy risked his entire coaching career to come try to save this dumpster after at least five others had turned it down. Some of you people need a sense of proportion here.

Bilas and others were actively campaigning for weeks on end in the bubble years to keep us out of the tournament because of how little they thought of our program. Right or wrong on Bilas' and other pundits part (Vitale) that's not good for MSU for national pundits to be blasting us day in and day out to keep us out of the tournament with as good of teams as we had back then.

I have a sense of proportion. Given our "improvement" from years 1-3, i just don't see us suddenly making a huge leap, and then the core group of players will be gone. Not sure why I'll expect a bunch of backups to improve more than seniors that played 35+ min a game since their freshman season. Face it, we should at least be an NIT team THIS SEASON if we want to actually make noise next year.

[TheDogFather]

Can we put a moratorium on discussing Stans? No one is going to ever change their mind on him. Regardless of whether you think he should or shouldn't have been let go, it's over. He's gone. It's way past time to be debating on the present and not on the past.

Is this aimed at Coach34? He's the on who started this crap. On purpose I might add.

[TheDogFather]

So was what coach said "a direct quote" -- or "something like"? And if it was "something like", why are you adding quotations to your own statement?

Coach said alot of outlandish stuff about Stans at times -- and I don't think even he would deny that -- but you still need to produce the source quote for the approach you took to arguing it.

Everybody gets one guess at which one is Coach34 and which one is engie.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110208143429/looneytunes/images/5/54/Spikechester1.jpg

[TheDogFather]

The bottom line is this. Rick had let the program get so bad that Scott was getting turned down by multiple mid major head coaches, and he knew nothing would change if he had done what some alumni/former players wanted and hired Kenny Payne. Rick Ray essentially took a job he was likely never going to be able to win with. The coach that succeeded Rick Stansbury was doomed to fail due to the mess he was inheriting, unless the administration is patient and gives them 5-6 years like Baylor did with Scott Drew.

You forgot the part about Coach34 continuously over-inflating Rick Ray's ability, and continuously demeaning Rick Stansbury in every way possible (and some ways never though possible). Kind of like when he said Ray's defense was so good that other SEC coaches were copying it. (that's a direct quote, engie)

[TheDogFather]

This is a perfect example of talking out of both sides of your mouth. If you had actually moved on, you wouldn't still be taking jabs under the pretense that what the program is right now, today, is "what anyone actually wished for". It isn't. Everyone understands that you were satisfied being a top 100 program into perpetuity like we were over the past 7 years -- that doesn't make anyone that aspired for more "wrong."

While coach apparently hasn't let it go -- it's pretty clear that almost no one on the other side of the fence has let it go yet either...

I will let it go when we have a program of the same caliber we once had. That was the goal wasn't it? To improve the program? It shouldn't be that hard according to yours and Coach's description of Stansbury's capabilities. I'd hate to find out that this was about personalities.

[Schultzy]

Bilas must have said 20 times on national TV that you can't put in a team that lost to Rider. Even though Rider was the first game of our season and we took 1 seed UK to overtime Twice including the SECT finals. At the same time he championed Utah St who had no quality wins. That MSU team deserved to be in the NCAAT.

No doubt It did deserve to be in and we beat that Kentucky team at home that year and in the SEC tournament if not for outrageously poor officiating in both games, especially the one in Starkville.
It was not fair to Stansbury or MSU but I think indicative of the inside basketball world's attitude toward our program. (Bilas' campaign and the officiating)
Calipari practically begged the committee to let us in in his interviews bc he knew we had been jobbed in both games.

There is just no way for anyone to know yet if Ray can get it done yet though, based on what he had to start with. Everyone is jumping the gun with their absolutes.

[DancingRabbit]

Everybody gets one guess at which one is Coach34 and which one is engie.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110208143429/looneytunes/images/5/54/Spikechester1.jpg

Actually, I think that's C34 and fishwater. Engie has original thoughts and brings facts. Got no problem with Engie except that (cough cough) fire Mullen campaign.

[MadDawg]

No shit on Malik, but thanks for showing your "inside" knowledge. Listen BUB, just because you show your ass on a message board it doesn't mean that what I'm saying isn't accurate. Stans was a recruiter and nothing more. Most people know that- sorry you don't.

Went from full retard to full dumbass. Nice job.

[Dawgface]

The 'nice job' award goes to C34. He got what he wanted out of this thread.

[MadDawg]

Sorry, but that OM loss didn't hurt them that much. They're still in the tourney.

Seems this Thursday you're in a real pickle. Do you detest ray or Om more? OM loses to us and they're on the outside looking in. We win and ray has another quality win this year to get to .500 and 6-7 in the sec

We are an RPI killer. Whether OM wins or loses to us, their RPI will suffer. We are a SWAC school now.

[cheewgumm]

I don't have any problem with Stans being gone but At the time all this wS happening most people were saying we had to get rid of Stans because we didn't win enough, not because he lost control of the program. The mantra at the time was we've only been t x number of sweet 16s.

That wa a good enough reason. Stans brought great talent and we couldn't make the tourney in the end. That team with Sidney and Hood would be the 2ndmost talented in the SEC right niw and one of the most talented in the country. They didn't make the tourney.

[Coach007]

Hood was gone

The same Gray that has lost his starting job at LSU and averages 1.5 more turnover per game than Ready? You think having him would have been a good thing?

Just stop. You always have to lie to try and make a point. If you have to lie, then maybe your cause isn't just.


Hood made it very.... Very clear that he transferred due to stans not being his coach anymore. That's his words. Not a moma's brother's aunt who overheard her uncles nephew twice removed say it, so it must be true.

We also lost a lot of recruits that would have come in with that group.


Finally, we still have all the issues you mentioned. Arrests have happened, drugs used, players transferring out. Now we can add massive injuries. Want to mention the letter..... Lol... Why not mention the guy who wanted to return, but Ray would not allow? Oh wait, we know the answer on why you don't tell the truth. It does not fit your need.


http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2013/02/05/duke-basketballs-rodney-hood-finds-frustration-transfer-travel-restrictions#.VOIksEdOKrU

Hood said. “It wasn’t like I just decided to leave. My coach left. I went to that school to play for that coach. When he left, I felt like a big part of me left, as far as the reason I went to the school. "

[Coach34]

There was no lie- not have I EVER LIED. I posted the article with it.

What other recruits did we lose? Gray was the only one

[Coach007]

You did.... I quoted it. Then quoted hood's exact words. Not a source.. His. The link is there for all to see.

It's a simple fact that most people see. You got what you wanted. Now let it go. No need in continuing the assassination of his character to make yourself feel better or try to make a point.

Either way... There's just no need in not being truthful.

[thf24]

We also lost a lot of recruits that would have come in with that group.

Um... no we didn't. That class was Gray, Sword, Thomas, and Ware. We lost one of the four players we would have taken if Stansbury had stayed. You are talking straight out your ass on that one, isn't that what you're accusing 34 of doing?

As for Hood, you're ignoring the strong evidence that he and family expressed interest in getting out of his LOI prior the the start of the 2011-2012 season, and were looking at transfer options in February of 2012. The truth is that no one knows what Hood was really thinking or what he would have done under different circumstances. One quote in a newspaper article by a 19-year-old after all the decisions had been made doesn't prove anything. You're only going on whatever information in convenient for your opinion. Again, isn't that exactly what you're accusing someone else of doing in the same post?

[Coach34]

You did.... I quoted it. Then quoted hood's exact words. Not a source.. His. The link is there for all to see.

It's a simple fact that most people see. You got what you wanted. Now let it go. No need in continuing the assassination of his character to make yourself feel better or try to make a point.

Either way... There's just no need in not being truthful.

I also had quotes from him and his Father. I'm not seeing the problem here except that my quotes were when the situation was going on and your quotes are two years after the fact.

Also- where had anyone attacked Stands character????

[shannondawg]

I haven't seen anyone suggest that if Stansbury was still here that we would have brought in some highly talented transfers. Andy Kennedy has 3 that are really helping his team this year.

Just adding that , not to get into the argument of whether he should still be here or gone.




Um... no we didn't. That class was Gray, Sword, Thomas, and Ware. We lost one of the four players we would have taken if Stansbury had stayed. You are talking straight out your ass on that one, isn't that what you're accusing 34 of doing?

As for Hood, you're ignoring the strong evidence that he and family expressed interest in getting out of his LOI prior the the start of the 2011-2012 season, and were looking at transfer options in February of 2012. The truth is that no one knows what Hood was really thinking or what he would have done under different circumstances. One quote in a newspaper article by a 19-year-old after all the decisions had been made doesn't prove anything. You're only going on whatever information in convenient for your opinion. Again, isn't that exactly what you're accusing someone else of doing in the same post?

[shannondawg]

Hoo Boy Coach , just got this off another thread. " Stands decided to retire instead of adhere to the new guidelines the AD and Pres were putting into place for the basketball program. Nobody yet has hired him to be their HC- and Kennedy at A&M just signed a contract extension a few months ago- so he isn't getting that job."

Enough said

How many times have you argued with me and others that he was fired, as you had inside info that he was. Either you were lying, badly misinformed or your "inside" source was if indeed there was one..

[MadDawg]

Everybody knows Stansbury was fired. It went down almost exactly like Cutcliffe at ole miss and nobody debates that he was fired.

He was told to make changes X, Y and Z or be gone. He chose not to make those changes so he was fired. He was allowed to "retire" out of respect.

[Coach34]

Everybody knows Stansbury was fired. It went down almost exactly like Cutcliffe at ole miss and nobody debates that he was fired.

He was told to make changes X, Y and Z or be gone. He chose not to make those changes so he was fired. He was allowed to "retire" out of respect.

THIS

[Liverpooldawg]

THIS

Yes, and that is a firing.

[thunderclap]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MK7qz13bU

[Dawg61]

dawgs!...our situation wasn't that much different than other P5 rebuilds?!?!? We didn't even have enough people on the damn team to run a five on five friggin scrimmage the entire first year.

That is not just atypical but completely unheard of. This guy risked his entire coaching career to come try to save this dumpster after at least five others had turned it down. Some of you people need a sense of proportion here.

Bilas and others were actively campaigning for weeks on end in the bubble years to keep us out of the tournament because of how little they thought of our program. Right or wrong on Bilas' and other pundits part (Vitale) that's not good for MSU for national pundits to be blasting us day in and day out to keep us out of the tournament with as good of teams as we had back then.


If Ray wanted to practice 5 v 5 he should of just signed more players and not kicked off 25% of the roster. Tennessee signed eight players in 3 weeks. Auburn signed six players. Our rebuild was just as tough as any other P5 rebuild. No tougher no easier. Comparing MSU to Baylor is like comparing MSU football after Croom to Penn State after Paterno.

[shannondawg]

Before, you just said fired, no choice, fired. If you have a choice of do work that you don't approve of or leave , I don't think any personnel office would consider that fired. Happens all the time.

[engie]

I will let it go when we have a program of the same caliber we once had. That was the goal wasn't it? To improve the program? It shouldn't be that hard according to yours and Coach's description of Stansbury's capabilities. I'd hate to find out that this was about personalities.

First -- link me to "my thoughts about Stansbury's capabilities" please? Ahh -- not only did you pull the ideal of me as some kind of pawn out of your ass -- you are now attributing positions to me that I didn't actually take. Again. Actually, that's basically all you ever do.

It's cool that you were happy hanging out between #75 and #125 for 6 of the final 7 years of your hero -- but don't bitch about people wanting more than that. Stansbury had proven that we could be better than that and so had Williams. The fact that we aren't better right now is immaterial to before being "good enough".

It's amazing to me that when a coach has a couple of really good years at msu, it entitles them to lifetime contracts in the eyes of a shockingly large percentage of our fanbase, regardless of them not winning at nearly the level we had become accustomed to anymore.

[shannondawg]

Whether it was good to move on or not, no one could predict the future, should be dead and buried, but watching that SEC rerun of the Ala game last night ,sure makes me miss the old days.

I am too old to expect that I will ever see that level again. Maybe with the girls , but not the men.

[thunderclap]

It's amazing to me that when a coach has a couple of really good years at msu, it entitles them to lifetime contracts in the eyes of a shockingly large percentage of our fanbase, regardless of them not winning at nearly the level we had become accustomed to anymore.

Not disagreeing with you, but it's also amazing to me that we will hire guys and pay them millions of dollars to coach in the SEC and tell them they have X amount of years of a cushion before it really matters if they win.

[Coach34]

Before, you just said fired, no choice, fired. If you have a choice of do work that you don't approve of or leave , I don't think any personnel office would consider that fired. Happens all the time.

He was fired- because everybody knew there was no way he would accept it. It was "do this like we tell you or you are fired"- Stands chose to be fired. Thats why his contract was paid out.

[engie]

Not disagreeing with you, but it's also amazing to me that we will hire guys and pay them millions of dollars to coach in the SEC and tell them they have X amount of years of a cushion before it really matters if they win.

Which, if we actually did say that, is absolutely stupid and worthy of every bit of criticism it receives. But most of the sources saying that we did that with Ray are the same ones that were initially trying to convince us that Stricklin had given him an extension after the first year. And also the same ones making the constant Croom comparisons. Making their motivations and "information" questionable at best.

Strick has cleaned house of underperforming coaches in all the small sports. You could argue that he let a couple stick around one year too long(Hazlewood), but he makes the tough calls all the same. He's made homerun hires in every single one of those sports, with men's tennis still being questionable to me. That's in sports that don't matter and do nothing but hurt the bottom line...

It's simply amazing to me the faction of our fanbase has deluded itself into believing that an MSU alum, who has been here through all of our good times in basketball, and whose access to his father-in-law gives him as much perspective on 50 years of our basketball program as anyone in existence, has put on a tremendous set of blinders for men's basketball simply because "he made the hire", and is otherwise purposefully sabotaging the program and will be unwilling to make a change when time comes for that change to be made. Literally every shred of evidence on Strick has shown that he's willing to admit and fix HIS mistakes -- and he's willing to make tough calls when they need to be made. Yet, we've got a faction that's just positive that isn't true for basketball -- for no logical reason...

[Dog316]

Nobody likes losing. Nobody is happy about the state of the program currently. We have traded constant drama and embarrassment around the program for losing on the court and falling to the bottom of the SEC. It sux.

But how anybody can claim Stands needed another year is beyond me. I dont get it. The team full of Sword, Fred, Ware, Wendell Lewis, and Jalen Steele was going to be a shitty one no matter who coached it. But besides that:

I cant fathom how anybody can try to justify giving Stands another year after Renardo Sidney. Think about this and the lack of control our HC had- we had to leave Sidney behind to stay here in the States when our team went to Europe to bond and play in the Fall. Why did we have to leave him behind you ask? Because we were terrified he would be drug tested by the NCAA on the trip- as teams are subject to be. How can you be so powerless as a HC to allow that to stay on your team? The embarrassment of the stories of Sidney going to "workout" with John Lucas??? Moultrie being suspended for failing multiple drug tests. You dont get a 3 game suspension for one failed test ya know. If you cant see that a change HAD TO BE MADE after all that- I just dont know what to tell you. Getting rid of Sidney wasnt going to make it get better- Sidney didnt make the other guys do drugs. Ray had to kick 2 others off for multiple failed tests once he got the job. It wasnt going to get any better under Stands.

Lastly- before you bash Stricklin again- think about that. He just got rid of a coach that had let things get so bad- nobody on the damn team could pass a drug test. He had just had a HC come to him and explain he was leaving one of his starting basketball players behind on the Europe trip because he was too much of a drug risk. But that he was still going to keep him on the team. So when Strick was having to make another hire- you can bet all this played a part in his decision-making.

Ray may not be the answer- but we made the correct decision in making the coaching change. We dont have the drama surrounding our program anymore and that is tremendous improvement. We just have to get more talented players on campus- whomever can do that and coach them.
<><><><><>

You will never understand. I will never understand people like you. That is just the way it is. Some people have a sense of loyalty to persons or institutions. Some people has a sense of loyalty to their own over inflated ego. Simple as that.

[engie]

He was fired- because everybody knew there was no way he would accept it. It was "do this like we tell you or you are fired"- Stands chose to be fired. Thats why his contract was paid out.

I strongly disagree with the premise of "everyone knowing there was no way he would accept it". Given that we had CLEARLY done no preliminary legwork toward lining up our next coach, having feelers out, etc...it seems pretty obvious to me that Stricklin not only expected Stans to accept it -- but he was shocked when he didn't. And caught with his pants down in the process of making the next hire...

[Coach34]

There had been some legwork done- the options just disappeared once they talked to Strick about the job and the way it was presented. I also think our Admin was very surprised at how badly our program was looked from the dissaray of the last few years of Stands

[TheDogFather]

First -- link me to "my thoughts about Stansbury's capabilities" please? Ahh -- not only did you pull the ideal of me as some kind of pawn out of your ass -- you are now attributing positions to me that I didn't actually take. Again. Actually, that's basically all you ever do.

It's cool that you were happy hanging out between #75 and #125 for 6 of the final 7 years of your hero -- but don't bitch about people wanting more than that. Stansbury had proven that we could be better than that and so had Williams. The fact that we aren't better right now is immaterial to before being "good enough".

It's amazing to me that when a coach has a couple of really good years at msu, it entitles them to lifetime contracts in the eyes of a shockingly large percentage of our fanbase, regardless of them not winning at nearly the level we had become accustomed to anymore.

You have 6,666 posts. I'm not going to go through them. Your reputation proceeds you.

The fact that we aren't better now is the root of the issue.

Lifetime contract? You are now attributing positions to a shockingly large percentage of our fanbase.

[TheDogFather]

Not disagreeing with you, but it's also amazing to me that we will hire guys and pay them millions of dollars to coach in the SEC and tell them they have X amount of years of a cushion before it really matters if they win.

It's also amazing that those who call Stansbury a "recruiter" as a derogatory term, now expect everyone to give Ray another year based solely on his recruiting.

[Liverpooldawg]

Before, you just said fired, no choice, fired. If you have a choice of do work that you don't approve of or leave , I don't think any personnel office would consider that fired. Happens all the time.

Bottom line: he got r u n t o f f .

[tcdog70]

You have 6,666 posts. I'm not going to go through them. Your reputation proceeds you.

The fact that we aren't better now is the root of the issue.

Lifetime contract? You are now attributing positions to a shockingly large percentage of our fanbase.


no wonder--he has one more 6 than the anti-christ

[Dawg61]

Because the obvious next move in basketball is to bring in the next coach at the end of this year. Strick failing to do that will be his third major mistake in a row for mbb.

[MSUDawg4Life]

no wonder--he has one more 6 than the anti-christ

" ... and please protect us, keep us and save us from Engie ...."

[engie]

You have 6,666 posts. I'm not going to go through them. Your reputation proceeds you.
Annnddd -- the typical "I don't know how to search" post when you are pulling straw man positions out of your ass and attributing them to me. Which I think we all knew was coming.


The fact that we aren't better now is the root of the issue.
The root of what issue? Being worse now doesn't make before "good enough".


Lifetime contract? You are now attributing positions to a shockingly large percentage of our fanbase.
One record better than 9-7 in a floundering SEC in the final 8 years. Yet, here you are, THREE years later pining away for a guy that is long since gone -- while wishing ill on the current regime and program. Otherwise, you'd show up to talk about it in good times and bad and actively pull for the team -- but you only come around during the struggling periods in order to grind your ax about water LONG SINCE under the bridge. We beat LSU and Tennessee at 10 point dogs -- you are nowhere to be found. Yes, it's safe to say that you felt "a lifetime contract" was in order for basketball. And if you'd been posting on these boards for long enough -- you would have been one of the very ones bitching about Cohen and wishing for Raffo too. You fit the profile to a T.

[engie]

Because the obvious next move in basketball is to bring in the next coach at the end of this year. Strick failing to do that will be his third major mistake in a row for mbb.

No, it isn't. And no it wouldn't be. This is only obvious if he loses out or goes 1-5 in the final 6 in ugly fashion and bows out early in the SEC tourney. That's unlikely.

He isn't getting fired for 8-10 in the SEC(the most likely scenario IMO) -- and to suggest that it's a "no brainer" is ridiculous. It's not going to convince anyone that he's 100% the guy to take us forward -- but it's enough improvement that firing him for it would sabotage another coaching search on the front end. No thanks. I'll get Weatherspoon, Tookie, Strugg, Hicks, and Simonds(and a couple more to come) into school/signed on the dotted line first. And then revisit the topic at this time next year when the cupboard is in better shape than it has been at any point thusfar...