Just noticed that Engie doesn't want to address my point of M BBall revenue vs costs.

[RougeDawg]

Margins. On the season ticket thread. I can still buy this seasons Mens season tickets right now. Some people couldn't sniff a ticket in 05, in any level. Now we have bottom level seats available in December. Hmmmm? Guess that means we are better off now having premium seats now available in December that once had a waiting list. Only in Engie logic is that a great thing. Not saying Stans shouldn't have been gone, but ignoring our current state of the program is both ignorant and detrimental.

We are clearing "Revenue Wise", roughly what we were during the Stans last 3 years (4-7 years ago), yet the costs of doing business (electricity, fuel, food etc.) have increased minimum 20-25%, with less season tickets sold, but we are somehow doing as good as or better according to Lord Engie????? Good thing he's not in charge of any of our 401K's or stock plans. His numbers of Rays's revenues dont even cover inflation.

But let's not forget, Engie is always correct, especially when he is overwhelmingly proven wrong. I will get some response as to how "Engie The Great" was only counting ticket sales between august and September and hotdog sales on Tuesday night to come up with his numbers, thus trying to prove me wrong. I am not anxiously awaiting him trying to disprove static revenues with increasing ticket priced, AND EXPENSES, as a good thing for out basketball program.

Engine, I want to see some revenue vs expenses numbers from you to support Ray. I know they dont exist so save yourself the trouble and admit you were inaccurate in your posts.

[MSUDawg4Life]

Engie has been taking so many losses lately that I suspect he's suffering a severe depression.

I can see him questioning the existence of God. Questioning his own existence. Wondering if he somehow mistakenly ended up in this crazy alternate reality where's he's WRONG! Often wrong! That's extreme cruelty to such a sensitive soul.

How can he get back to that dimension where he's always right? That's got to be ... reality. Right? Or not?

Somebody help poor Engie. Make sure he doesn't hurt himself. I'm worried about the boy.

[bulldawg28]

Dude go to bed.

[engie]

Oh good lord you obsessed mother ****ers. All that talking -- to not actually say jack shit. Basically 100% personal attacks. And not only that -- thinking you are important enough to start a new thread in order to do it.

When you get ready to quit being a whiny bitch that legitimately thinks he's a better hitting coach than john cohen and divise an actual fact-based position -- then maybe I would actually bother responding to all of this nonsensical blabber.

Good to see you using your Friday night obsessing over me and applying positions to me I didn't take. Oh -- and our expense data is just as readily available to you as the revenue was to me -- but instead you'd rather make up a bunch of shit that sounds good in your head. Presumably like most of the other, usually cringe-inducing and nonsensical bullshit you are always posting.

[Political Hack]

This board = continual entertainment.

[I seen it dawg]

This board = continual entertainment.

No shit right

[I seen it dawg]

No shit right

I just wish at some point in the game thread yesterday, before it was over, caught a game score. The game thread needs some work but it was opening day.

[War Machine Dawg]

Margins. On the season ticket thread. I can still buy this seasons Mens season tickets right now. Some people couldn't sniff a ticket in 05, in any level. Now we have bottom level seats available in December. Hmmmm? Guess that means we are better off now having premium seats now available in December that once had a waiting list. Only in Engie logic is that a great thing. Not saying Stans shouldn't have been gone, but ignoring our current state of the program is both ignorant and detrimental.

We are clearing "Revenue Wise", roughly what we were during the Stans last 3 years (4-7 years ago), yet the costs of doing business (electricity, fuel, food etc.) have increased minimum 20-25%, with less season tickets sold, but we are somehow doing as good as or better according to Lord Engie????? Good thing he's not in charge of any of our 401K's or stock plans. His numbers of Rays's revenues dont even cover inflation.

But let's not forget, Engie is always correct, especially when he is overwhelmingly proven wrong. I will get some response as to how "Engie The Great" was only counting ticket sales between august and September and hotdog sales on Tuesday night to come up with his numbers, thus trying to prove me wrong. I am not anxiously awaiting him trying to disprove static revenues with increasing ticket priced, AND EXPENSES, as a good thing for out basketball program.

Engine, I want to see some revenue vs expenses numbers from you to support Ray. I know they dont exist so save yourself the trouble and admit you were inaccurate in your posts.


Engie has been taking so many losses lately that I suspect he's suffering a severe depression.

I can see him questioning the existence of God. Questioning his own existence. Wondering if he somehow mistakenly ended up in this crazy alternate reality where's he's WRONG! Often wrong! That's extreme cruelty to such a sensitive soul.

How can he get back to that dimension where he's always right? That's got to be ... reality. Right? Or not?

Somebody help poor Engie. Make sure he doesn't hurt himself. I'm worried about the boy.

http://i.imgur.com/JMDj0bD.png

[State82]

This board = continual entertainment.

Absolutely it is. That's why I love it around here.

[RiverCityDawg]

Margins. On the season ticket thread. I can still buy this seasons Mens season tickets right now. Some people couldn't sniff a ticket in 05, in any level. Now we have bottom level seats available in December. Hmmmm? Guess that means we are better off now having premium seats now available in December that once had a waiting list. Only in Engie logic is that a great thing. Not saying Stans shouldn't have been gone, but ignoring our current state of the program is both ignorant and detrimental.

We are clearing "Revenue Wise", roughly what we were during the Stans last 3 years (4-7 years ago), yet the costs of doing business (electricity, fuel, food etc.) have increased minimum 20-25%, with less season tickets sold, but we are somehow doing as good as or better according to Lord Engie????? Good thing he's not in charge of any of our 401K's or stock plans. His numbers of Rays's revenues dont even cover inflation.

But let's not forget, Engie is always correct, especially when he is overwhelmingly proven wrong. I will get some response as to how "Engie The Great" was only counting ticket sales between august and September and hotdog sales on Tuesday night to come up with his numbers, thus trying to prove me wrong. I am not anxiously awaiting him trying to disprove static revenues with increasing ticket priced, AND EXPENSES, as a good thing for out basketball program.

Engine, I want to see some revenue vs expenses numbers from you to support Ray. I know they dont exist so save yourself the trouble and admit you were inaccurate in your posts.

You're either single or your wife is cheating on you.

[engie]

Engine, I want to see some revenue vs expenses numbers from you to support Ray. I know they dont exist so save yourself the trouble and admit you were inaccurate in your posts.

Just another in a long line of your herp derps...

Year BB Expenses BB Revenue Net
2010 4052623 6914565 2861942
2011 5430979 7002963 1571984
2012 4312955 6744710 2431755
2013 4377759 6571274 2193515

Stansbury's last 2 - Net $4,433,926
Ray's first 2 - Net $4,625,270

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

[DownwardDawg]

http://i.imgur.com/JMDj0bD.png

Hahaha!!!! Love this place!

[dickiedawg]

Just another in a long line of your herp derps...

Year BB Expenses BB Revenue Net
2010 4052623 6914565 2861942
2011 5430979 7002963 1571984
2012 4312955 6744710 2431755
2013 4377759 6571274 2193515

Stansbury's last 2 - Net $4,433,926
Ray's first 2 - Net $4,625,270

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

/thread

[engie]

I had let this go and dropped it -- until Rogue brought it back out today in my Ray thread:

http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?29079-On-basketball-improvement/page3

Bump since he apparently still believes this.

[RougeDawg]

This sHow's improvement how? Basically no change and you only use 2 years of each cosch to prove your point which just so happens to include our last coaches worst year. I love how you pick and choose specific numbers and stats in attempt to prove your point, but disregard the rest.

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

I had let this go and dropped it -- until Rogue brought it back out today in my Ray thread:

http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?29079-On-basketball-improvement/page3

Bump since he apparently still believes this.

We should start a daily thread, wherein Rouge makes his predictions about all sorts of things: sports, elections, stocks, whatever. Then, the rest of us can read that and bet, do, etc... the exact opposite of his predictions. We'd all become filthy rich, fat and happy.

[RougeDawg]

And your 2011 year might include extra travel costs for our team to travel to NY for a week to actually play in a decent early season tournament. When we were actually worthy of playing in such a thing.

[engie]

This sHow's improvement how? Basically no change and you only use 2 years of each cosch to prove your point which just so happens to include our last coaches worst year. I love how you pick and choose specific numbers and stats in attempt to prove your point, but disregard the rest.

Where are your "specific numbers and stats" proving your point? EEEEXACTLY.

"Well, it's just 4 years!!!1!11!" -- yeah -- it's the most recent 2 years of Stansbury vs Ray's only 2 years. Fact is -- cost hasn't gone up significantly in that period of time, so this whole thread and thought process is you herp derping your ass off. Go ahead, try to move the goalposts -- everyone will now get to see what actually happened here.

[engie]

And your 2011 year might include extra travel costs for our team to travel to NY for a week to actually play in a decent early season tournament. When we were actually worthy of playing in such a thing.

And my 2012 numbers includes 5 days in Maui.

Herp a derp derping along

[TheDogFather]

thinking you are important enough to start a new thread in order to do it.

Where did I miss that you had to be important to start a thread?

[TheDogFather]

Just another in a long line of your herp derps...

Year BB Expenses BB Revenue Net
2010 4052623 6914565 2861942
2011 5430979 7002963 1571984
2012 4312955 6744710 2431755
2013 4377759 6571274 2193515

Stansbury's last 2 - Net $4,433,926
Ray's first 2 - Net $4,625,270

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

The most entertaining part of this entire drama is the fact that it is being used as a justification of your opinion that Rick Ray is good for MSU basketball.

[sandwolf]

The most entertaining part of this entire drama is the fact that it is being used as a justification of your opinion that Rick Ray is good for MSU basketball.

No it's not. If I'm not mistaken, it was a response to the claim that firing Stansbury and hiring Ray had cost the athletic department loads of money.

[Johnson85]

We are clearing "Revenue Wise", roughly what we were during the Stans last 3 years (4-7 years ago), yet the costs of doing business (electricity, fuel, food etc.) have increased minimum 20-25%,

Even if you start 7 years ago, the costs of doing business has not gone up 20%. Closer to 14%. That's just inflation in general so the costs of basketball could have certainly gone up more, but you'd need something to justify why it'd be that different.

[RougeDawg]

2011 - 41% margin
2012 - 22% margin Dumpster fire year
2013 - 36% margin New head coach; excitement etc.
2013 - 33% margin declining interest
2014 - ?? bet its lower than 33% and showing the trend that most of us have seen on the court and in the stands, mediocrity.

And I now see why previous years were left out of your argument.

2010 - 39% margin. I wonder why this was left off of your argument.

Since you are a "statistical" guy, you can obviously see that the 2012 season is an outlying data point, but even if you must include it to make your point, the average of the last coaches 3 years is still the same as the current coaches average while still including the anomaly year of 2012. Also, you can observe a distinct trend that has occurred since 2013 and is still on the same flat to falling trajectory this season. I would be delighted to go back more years than this but I am having a difficult time locating the actual data.

Ok everyone, you tell me how much better off we are now. Taking into account the last 3 years of our previous coach (most statisticians would throw out the 22% year anomaly but I will leave it in for this argument and not "Engie" it) our gross profit margin was 34.6%. The first two under our new regime have averaged a whopping 34.7% margin, with the second year being around 3% lower than the first year when we had a new coach and renewed excitement surrounding the program. The 2014 numbers do not bode well to make anyone think this average margin will increase, based on attendance and ticket sales.

Once again I will ask, How exactly does this prove we are much better off now as opposed to before, other than ridding ourselves of the cancerous group of players that we had?

[engie]

The most entertaining part of this entire drama is the fact that it is being used as a justification of your opinion that Rick Ray is good for MSU basketball.

The more entertaining part is you making up random stuff that sounds good in your head and attributing it to me. I WAS CALLED OUT. I'm not using it as a "justification" for anything other than Rogue and the rest of you using it to promote an agenda while being dumbasses... YOUR faction was attempting to use it to further demean Ray -- I have simply shown that it isn't something valid that you can use against him.

[engie]

Where did I miss that you had to be important to start a thread?

Why don't you start a call-out thread about me with a few personal attacks mixed in and see how it goes? Yes -- I find threads such as this one laughable in their narcissistic self-importance and ridiculousness. People do it to me pretty regularly. I don't think I've ever started a direct call-out thread.

[engie]

2011 - 41% margin
2012 - 22% margin Dumpster fire year
2013 - 36% margin New head coach; excitement etc.
2013 - 33% margin declining interest
2014 - ?? bet its lower than 33% and showing the trend that most of us have seen on the court and in the stands, mediocrity.

Nice of you to repeat my data to me. And round in every number into your favor. Now, let's move on with these new right hash goalposts of yours...


And I now see why previous years were left out of your argument.

2010 - 39% margin. I wonder why this was left off of your argument.
2 years vs 2 years.
3 years vs 3 years.
So forth.
Unless you want me to "prove" to you that Polk >>>>> Cohen based on "career" records at MSU. What Stansbury did and had in ancient history is exactly that -- ANCIENT. The vast majority of us weren't bitching when we were making tournaments 5 years ago. Irrelevant. The money was already being "lost"(your terminology) under Stansbury before we hired Ray -- hence why the most recent years are the most relevant. That's a fact. And no amount of skewing on your part is going to change it. Polk is a better recruiter than Cohen because 1994!!1!1**


Since you are a "statistical" guy, you can obviously see that the 2012 season is an outlying data point, but even if you must include it to make your point, the average of the last coaches 3 years is still the same as the current coaches average while still including the anomaly year of 2012. Also, you can observe a distinct trend that has occurred since 2013 and is still on the same flat to falling trajectory this season. I would be delighted to go back more years than this but I am having a difficult time locating the actual data.
I bet you would. Quit changing the damn argument. Which was about MARGINS. You claimed expenses were up 25%. They aren't -- not close. "Engie is always correct, especially when he is overwhelmingly proven wrong" is the most hypocritical thing imaginable given how this thread has gone. You are literally guilty of exactly what you called me out for -- in the very thread you did the calling out. Hilariously inept.


Ok everyone, you tell me how much better off we are now.
Link to me saying we are better off now?


Taking into account the last 3 years of our previous coach (most statisticians would throw out the 22% year anomaly but I will leave it in for this argument and not "Engie" it) our gross profit margin was 34.6%. The first two under our new regime have averaged a whopping 34.7% margin, with the second year being around 3% lower than the first year when we had a new coach and renewed excitement surrounding the program.
Wait -- so our margins aren't down over 20% due to increasing expenses?!?11


The 2014 numbers do not bode well to make anyone think this average margin will increase, based on attendance and ticket sales.

Once again I will ask, How exactly does this prove we are much better off now as opposed to before, other than ridding ourselves of the cancerous group of players that we had?
Again -- where has anyone ever said that we're better off now than we were before?

Can't successfully argue your own opinion = "attribute a dumb ass opinion to someone else so you can argue against that". It's funny actually.

[RougeDawg]

Nice of you to repeat my data to me. And round in every number into your favor. Now, let's move on with these new right hash goalposts of yours...


2 years vs 2 years.
3 years vs 3 years.
So forth.
Unless you want me to "prove" to you that Polk >>>>> Cohen based on "career" records at MSU. What Stansbury did and had in ancient history is exactly that -- ANCIENT. The vast majority of us weren't bitching when we were making tournaments 5 years ago. Irrelevant. The money was already being "lost"(your terminology) under Stansbury before we hired Ray -- hence why the most recent years are the most relevant. That's a fact. And no amount of skewing on your part is going to change it. Polk is a better recruiter than Cohen because 1994!!1!1**


I bet you would. Quit changing the damn argument. Which was about MARGINS. You claimed expenses were up 25%. They aren't -- not close. "Engie is always correct, especially when he is overwhelmingly proven wrong" is the most hypocritical thing imaginable given how this thread has gone. You are literally guilty of exactly what you called me out for -- in the very thread you did the calling out. Hilariously inept.


Link to me saying we are better off now?


Wait -- so our margins aren't down over 20% due to increasing expenses?!?11


Again -- where has anyone ever said that we're better off now than we were before?

Can't successfully argue your own opinion = "attribute a dumb ass opinion to someone else so you can argue against that". It's funny actually.

Your original argument, to which you have now been proven wrong was look at Ray's total revenue and how much better it shows that our basketball programs is now. Or has your rage for being outed once again prevented you from remembering the argument you brought forth as to back up the current state of our program.

And my bad I was incorrect on the costs of energy increase. I was way off at 25%. 10 years ago the average cost of electricity was $0.08/kWh. As of 2014 the average cost was $0.12/kWh. Which comes out to around a 50% increase in just electricity costs. Somehow you see a decrease there. My expense argument was a rebuttle to your "Total Revenue" tells all when looking at the state of the program, yet you left out operating costs. To which I have now pointed out that they are relatively no different now opposed to then. Thus totally debunking your proclamation that Ray was taking us to new heights and the total revenue was direct evidence of the program's success. I have stayed on point, but you have once again, taken an entire post, broken it down into small portions and attacked from multiple angles in attempt to prove your point. I'll be more than delighted to add in RR's third season once numbers become available and repost the gross margins. Unless it's higher than 34.7% this year, then well... You know. But I will not speculate on this years margin, since I was offered lower bowl season tickets (up to 8) a month into the season when I stopped by the Bryan building. All signs point to record revenue this year based on that!!

I have successfully stated facts. The revenue generated per dollar spent in 2014 is no different than the revenue generated per dollar spent under the last coach, yet you started an entire thread on the state of our basketball program and that we are much better off now because "former coach" only had one year with total revenue compared to the last two under the new coach. Remember that one, or shall I go dig it up?

Look I'm not supporting one coach or the other. I'm simply pointing out that using revenue alone as an attempt to Promote Rick Ray, the way you initially did, is inaccurate and unreliable. Period. You can come back anyway you like, but that is what you originally stated and what I have now shown to be selective data presentation in order to sway thinking. It's ok, I will give you credit. 34.7% (RR) margin is better than 34.6% (RS).**

[TheDogFather]

Why don't you start a call-out thread about me with a few personal attacks mixed in and see how it goes? Yes -- I find threads such as this one laughable in their narcissistic self-importance and ridiculousness. People do it to me pretty regularly. I don't think I've ever started a direct call-out thread.

Appreciate the response, but it doesn't answer the question.

[TheDogFather]

No it's not. If I'm not mistaken, it was a response to the claim that firing Stansbury and hiring Ray had cost the athletic department loads of money.

Trees versus forest. But, whatever.

[engie]

Appreciate the response, but it doesn't answer the question.

It does answer the question. You just don't like the answer. Sure -- anyone can start any thread they want saying whatever they want. Then, I'm free to put their foot in their mouth for them when it's ridiculous. And, naturally, I'm going to try alot harder when it's directed at me.

[engie]

It's amazing how I can tell you what you are going to say and do -- right before you actually do it. Like a puppet.


Your original argument, to which you have now been proven wrong was look at Ray's total revenue and how much better it shows that our basketball programs is now.
BULLSHIT. It wasn't even my original argument. It was disproving your and others' arguments that Rick Ray has sent our program into dire financial straits. Disproving something doesn't mean something else has to be proven. All it does is shoot holes in the base of your argument. It is in no way, nor has ever been used in any way, to make a pro-Rick Ray argument by me.


Or has your rage for being outed once again prevented you from remembering the argument you brought forth as to back up the current state of our program.
More lies. Which is basically all you've done here.


And my bad I was incorrect on the costs of energy increase. I was way off at 25%. 10 years ago the average cost of electricity was $0.08/kWh. As of 2014 the average cost was $0.12/kWh. Which comes out to around a 50% increase in just electricity costs. Somehow you see a decrease there.
Link me to this "decrease" I see? Ahhh -- just more made up bullshit. It never ceases to amaze me when people won't debate my actual position, but falsely attributed bullshit.


My expense argument was a rebuttle to your "Total Revenue" tells all when looking at the state of the program, yet you left out operating costs.
I never claimed total revenue to be a tell-all. It's always just been a small piece of the puzzle. It's not the "basis" of any of my positions. It just shoots the holes in the basis of some of yours.


To which I have now pointed out that they are relatively no different now opposed to then. Thus totally debunking your proclamation that Ray was taking us to new heights and the total revenue was direct evidence of the program's success.
Good Lord where did I say ANYTHING like this? Link please. You are just making this up as you go because I've made you look like a joke here.


I have stayed on point,
The OP is what you would call "on point"?


but you have once again, taken an entire post, broken it down into small portions and attacked from multiple angles in attempt to prove your point.
That's what you are doing. Not what I'm doing.


I'll be more than delighted to add in RR's third season once numbers become available and repost the gross margins. Unless it's higher than 34.7% this year, then well... You know.
It better be a literal negative number for your OP to be even close to valid. And even then -- you are trying to argue a position I didn't even take...


But I will not speculate on this years margin, since I was offered lower bowl season tickets (up to 8) a month into the season when I stopped by the Bryan building. All signs point to record revenue this year based on that!!
K


I have successfully stated facts.
No. You've successfully made a dumb thread on a false premise -- made up phantom positions to argue against -- and argued against yourself...


The revenue generated per dollar spent in 2014 is no different than the revenue generated per dollar spent under the last coach, yet you started an entire thread on the state of our basketball program and that we are much better off now because "former coach" only had one year with total revenue compared to the last two under the new coach. Remember that one, or shall I go dig it up?
Dig up this thread I started on this premise, I'd love to see it. Since it doesn't exist. I've only ever brought up those numbers as responses to people talking about how much money we're bleeding -- never on their own basis. Because I actually don't think the numbers are impressive or near our ceiling.

L
ook I'm not supporting one coach or the other. I'm simply pointing out that using revenue alone as an attempt to Promote Rick Ray, the way you initially did, is inaccurate and unreliable. Period.
Except I didn't and haven't. Using it to destroy Ray bashing idiots isn't the same as using it to promote Ray.


You can come back anyway you like, but that is what you originally stated and what I have now shown to be selective data presentation in order to sway thinking. It's ok, I will give you credit. 34.7% (RR) margin is better than 34.6% (RS).**

That's right.

[RougeDawg]

It's amazing how I can tell you what you are going to say and do -- right before you actually do it. Like a puppet.


BULLSHIT. It wasn't even my original argument. It was disproving your and others' arguments that Rick Ray has sent our program into dire financial straits. Disproving something doesn't mean something else has to be proven. All it does is shoot holes in the base of your argument. It is in no way, nor has ever been used in any way, to make a pro-Rick Ray argument by me.


More lies. Which is basically all you've done here.


Link me to this "decrease" I see? Ahhh -- just more made up bullshit. It never ceases to amaze me when people won't debate my actual position, but falsely attributed bullshit.


I never claimed total revenue to be a tell-all. It's always just been a small piece of the puzzle. It's not the "basis" of any of my positions. It just shoots the holes in the basis of some of yours.


Good Lord where did I say ANYTHING like this? Link please. You are just making this up as you go because I've made you look like a joke here.


The OP is what you would call "on point"?


That's what you are doing. Not what I'm doing.


It better be a literal negative number for your OP to be even close to valid. And even then -- you are trying to argue a position I didn't even take...


K


No. You've successfully made a dumb thread on a false premise -- made up phantom positions to argue against -- and argued against yourself...


Dig up this thread I started on this premise, I'd love to see it. Since it doesn't exist. I've only ever brought up those numbers as responses to people talking about how much money we're bleeding -- never on their own basis. Because I actually don't think the numbers are impressive or near our ceiling.

L
Except I didn't and haven't. Using it to destroy Ray bashing idiots isn't the same as using it to promote Ray.


That's right.

Wait you aren't doing exactly what I said, breaking the posts sorts and attacking them separately, other than addressing the entire point? This is as great of an example as can be provided. You've done nothing but dodge and deflect your original point that stans only had one year that even compares "revenue wise" to all of Rays tenure. However you want to spin it now, that was your premise. Someone came up with a chart showing where ray should have taken us revenue wise based on historical data. You kept arguing they Ray's "total revenues" were all higher than Any Stans year but one. You stated that the state of the program was much better off now due to the increased revenue. You stated premium seating etc as a rebuttal to less season tickets sales as a whole. To which someone else pointed out how can it be positive to sell less season tickets in 14 than previous years, yet we are supposed to believe the program is in as good as or Better shape as before.

To which I argued that just stating revenues and pointing out that Ray is technically bringing in more total $$$'s, by no means demosntrates that we are better off now than we were with Stans. Multiple people discredited your "theory" then and that still holds.

Look it's fine. We all know you know all even when you don't. I personally would rather look at all data as opposed to an irrelevant "revenue" number to determine the health and direction of a basketball program and a business for that matter.

[engie]

Oh look -- more "engie said" lies with no links and more moving goalposts. Shocked**

You are a dumbass. The original post was stupid along with the ~ 80% of your other posts. You were too ignorant to realize how stupid it was then -- and amazingly, still too stupid to realize it now. And you've been sufficiently owned for the day. Check back Friday night about 1 AM when I'm on your mind again. K Thx.

[Noxdog]

Oh look -- more "engie said" lies with no links and more moving goalposts. Shocked**

You are a dumbass. The original post was stupid along with the ~ 80% of your other posts. You were too ignorant to realize how stupid it was then -- and amazingly, still too stupid to realize it now. And you've been sufficiently owned for the day. Check back Friday night about 1 AM when I'm on your mind again. K Thx.

Keeps me entertained even on snowy days.

EOD, got to give engie props. Dude is a gamer. If red dawg had links I suppose he would post them, right?

[coastdoglover]

I wonder what we will list the attendance at tonight in the Kentucky game? We were giving away tickets to students along with free pizza while also telling them they could move down to the empty seats in the lower level. I know for a fact we lost a ton of money on the preferred seat charges and you can run all the numbers you want to, 5000 season tickets and about one third of the cost per seat revenue tells me Engie is clueless.

[RougeDawg]

Oh look -- more "engie said" lies with no links and more moving goalposts. Shocked**

You are a dumbass. The original post was stupid along with the ~ 80% of your other posts. You were too ignorant to realize how stupid it was then -- and amazingly, still too stupid to realize it now. And you've been sufficiently owned for the day. Check back Friday night about 1 AM when I'm on your mind again. K Thx.

How have I been owned again? Every number and margin I have provided today had disproved your argument that Ray is bringing in a whole hell of a lot more money than our previous coach. I'm a dumbass for calling out your attempt of trying to present "revenue" as a measuring stick of the program? Am I understanding this correctly? Since when is revenue a measuring stick of any entity, when you disregard operating costs?

Here are some links and copied posts since your dumbassedry does not allow you to remember and rationalize all of the ignorance you spew. I didn't think I'd have to go "Engiing" through the search feature to prove your dumbass wrong, but I guess I will.

Here's one of your Einstein-esque responses. Below in bold is your incoherent babbling, as I want to make it easier for you to comprehend what you said. I specifically read below, you trying to put a Stans guy down because RR has been bringing in a ton of "Revenue" opposed to Stans. Thats where I came in with the "You cant use revenue alone to determine success" argument, which I subsequently backed up with cold hard percentages today.

02-12-2015, 09:14 AM #13
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Quote Originally Posted by TheDogFather View Post
I can do the math, thank you. If $1mil is peas to MSU, why did my football season tickets increase? Which totals about $1mil for 40,000 paid seats? Must need that $1mil, but not the $1.5 mil per year Rick Ray is costing them.
Why would the season tickets not increase? Why would they remain the cheapest in a conference we are busting our ass to compete in and still currently dead last in revenue generation? Demand for our tickets is at an all-time high. Why would we not attempt to capitalize on that? That's a nice 40k number you came up with -- in a 61k seat stadium that sells more than 40k tickets. Nevermind that we've got $68mil in debt service on that stadium right now...

I'm confused where I led you to believe I was against increasing all forms of revenue across the board? I even remarked about what I think is the easiest way to do it in basketball. News flash: The people aren't coming back to the Hump overnight. Regardless. In virtually the same situation, with a program that had been on a slow decline for years and had virtually bottomed out, we went and got THE high major coach that almost everyone wanted us to go get(who was offered the biggest contract in the history of the sport at the time in his old job). A hire most everyone considered a slam dunk at the time. And it STILL took Cohen 5+ years to really get the crowds back for baseball. People didn't really come back in his first year of winning or even his second. For all intents and purposes, while there was alot of momentum building in year 5, they didn't fully come back in force until year 6(4th yr of winning)...

Beyond this meaningless drivel, why are you so hell bent in proving to a bunch of anonymous internet message board posters that 1. a losing shitstorm basketball team doesn't hurt a program concerning revenue, and 2. that $1mil is peas to a university that spends half its time fundraising? Logic is not on your side in either case.
Why are you so hell-bent in using it as a crutch to a position that needs no crutch? This isn't about me -- it's about you using an outright lie to try to push an agenda that you've made abundantly clear here over time. Calling that out doesn't translate to either one of these points you are attempting to make. Everyone here already knows that you are getting exactly what you wanted right now once your golden boy left the building. So, why are you here bitching about it?

And, yes, $1mil is peas to a $100mil/yr athletics department.
For the record:
Survey Year Basketball Men's Team Revenue
2003 3563988
2004 4755466
2005 4753245
2006 4460009
2007 5404737
2008 6197698
2009 8205804
2010 6914565
2011 7002963
2012 6744710
2013 6571274

How does it feel to know your boy only brought in more $$ than Rick Ray's shitshow in 3 of his 14 seasons?

I'm anticipating an 18 part, separated response explaining that what you said in this post and the thread linked below, was actually a separate and different point, but the evidence is there for those to see you crawfishing on you stance. Look I don't forget what people post so I'll sit here all day and school you if you choose to continue to twist and change "your original point", but the proof is in the "previous posts".

And here's the link for everyone else to see what you said. Dude, just please tell me you are not responsible for financial decisions in whatever endeavors you choose in life or work. And if you are responsible for financial decisions at work, please let me know what company that is so I and any I talk to can avoid investing in said company.

http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?28690-How-many-season-ticket-holders/page2&p=331741&highlight=basketball+revenue

[State82]

Yall gone make me lose my mind up in here.

[engie]

Ahh -- so "not going engieing through the search feature" = "engie actually didn't start that thread" or actually say 10% of the shit you accused him of in the endless barage of psychobabble. Thanks for the admission chump.

So, you weren't going to "engie through the search feature" -- yet you did in order to find the quote you gave from a month ago. Another lie. And all that proved was that I used the data EXACTLY how I said twice earlier in this thread that I used it. To shoot down bullshit anti-Ray propaganda. I never started a thread like you said -- you know it and I know it. So add that to the lie column. One of the dozens you've fabricated in this thread. All you managed to scrounge up was a RESPONSE that QUOTED a Ray-bashing post about REVENUE GENERATION by the biggest anti-Ray posters on ED in which I absolutely buried him on the basis that HE INTRODUCED TO THE THREAD. And this burial subsequently hurt your feelings so badly that it led you to obsess over it through your Friday night. At which point you decided to slave over a bullshit thread that sounded good in your head but came out hilariously stupid -- you got buried for it -- and are still too ignorant to even realize the extent of your destruction.

Every fast food joint within 3 counties of Neshoba are going to need new straws. You have grasped up all of theirs.

[RougeDawg]

Ahh -- so "not going engieing through the search feature" = "engie actually didn't start that thread" or actually say 10% of the shit you accused him of in the endless barage of psychobabble. Thanks for the admission chump.

So, you weren't going to "engie through the search feature" -- yet you did in order to find the quote you gave from a month ago. Another lie. And all that proved was that I used the data EXACTLY how I said twice earlier in this thread that I used it. To shoot down bullshit anti-Ray propaganda. I never started a thread like you said -- you know it and I know it. So add that to the lie column. One of the dozens you've fabricated in this thread. All you managed to scrounge up was a RESPONSE that QUOTED a Ray-bashing post about REVENUE GENERATION by the biggest anti-Ray posters on ED in which I absolutely buried him on the basis that HE INTRODUCED TO THE THREAD. And this burial subsequently hurt your feelings so badly that it led you to obsess over it through your Friday night. At which point you decided to slave over a bullshit thread that sounded good in your head but came out hilariously stupid -- you got buried for it -- and are still too ignorant to even realize the extent of your destruction.

Every fast food joint within 3 counties of Neshoba are going to need new straws. You have grasped up all of theirs.

So pasting a quote you said yourself from a month ago showing where you were trying to put someone else down, while defending Ray by using "revenue" numbers, I am somehow making up lies about you? Please elaborate on the rationale you used to deduce such a conclusion?

How did you shoot down anti Ray propaganda? Yes Ray's revenue is higher, but as I showed earlier, the profit margin ((revenue-operating costs)/revenue) is no different now as it was then. You didn't shoot a damn thing down by "YOUR DATA". I damn sure didn't see anyone get buried. You just picked and chose data to support your point while leaving out many other key statistics, but nothing abnormal from you.

The only point I have ever made, continue to make, and have proven today is one cannot simply look at revenue as a measuring stick on current state of the program.

There is and always has been only one point to my debunking your "revenue" measuring stick. I know you cannot fathom someone putting you in your place that one cannot simply use "revenue" as a reference point as to how well something is performing. You are the one who always breaks apart someone proving you wrong, into small pieces, and attack them separately, thus trying to discredit small portions of the overall point, trying to crawfish your way out of the dumbassery that you so routinely get called out on here for.

You wanted a link to where you were using "revenue" to measure the success of the mens basksetball program. After I school and learn you on some basic profit margins earlier today and show that nothing has changed from previous coach to now, you said I could not link or quote you to using the revenue argument to bolster RR and the current state of the program. I now come tonight and show everyone exactly where you were "high and almighty" trying to discredit TheDogFather after he called you out in the linked thread, and your rebuttal is "Well I didn't start that thread like you accused me of" and you call me a liar, Trying to discredit me, instead of acknowledging what you actually typed. Nothing new from you.

And your reading comprehension skills need a ton of work. I said I didn't think I would have to "Engie" through the search feature tonight for you to remember what you actually typed. But since your delusions of grandeur and "all knowing powers" prevent you from recalling past gibberish posted, I had to take the time to look up where you actually posted about revenue and selling less tickets as being a positive thing for our men's basketball program. Then I look it up and as usual after being proven wrong for the tenth time during the day, the "Engie Twist" appears and suddendly the topic at hand is not what you were talking about or that wasn't the particular part of "Said Posters" post that you were refuting, thus I am a liar because I read what you wrote for what it's worth.

[Coach34]

wow- somebody arguing numbers with Engie...thats terrific

Next, let's get someone arguing about our football recruiting board with Ifyouonlyknew....

[engie]

I'm not going thru that wall of text with your make-believe thoughts on your make-believe version of my opinion so I can rehash the exact same destruction again. If you didn't get it the first 7 times -- you still aren't going to get it. I've addressed and destroyed every point you've had -- point by point(which you hate because it calls immediate attention to each individual stupidity of yours). I don't feel any need to do it again. So go on back to being a dumbass -- and when you cross the line and start claiming superiority to Cohen as a hitting coach(again) -- I'll be right there to provide the data that proves what a joke most of what you say is.

[TheDogFather]

The more entertaining part is you making up random stuff that sounds good in your head and attributing it to me. I WAS CALLED OUT. I'm not using it as a "justification" for anything other than Rogue and the rest of you using it to promote an agenda while being dumbasses... YOUR faction was attempting to use it to further demean Ray -- I have simply shown that it isn't something valid that you can use against him.

Damn. I've made it. I have a faction.

[RougeDawg]

I'm not going thru that wall of text with your make-believe thoughts on your make-believe version of my opinion so I can rehash the exact same destruction again. If you didn't get it the first 7 times -- you still aren't going to get it. I've addressed and destroyed every point you've had -- point by point(which you hate because it calls immediate attention to each individual stupidity of yours). I don't feel any need to do it again. So go on back to being a dumbass -- and when you cross the line and start claiming superiority to Cohen as a hitting coach(again) -- I'll be right there to provide the data that proves what a joke most of what you say is.

This all boils down to me calling your so called game of spewing stats and numbers around on here without anyone questioning how you came up with said numbers and what key elements you disregarded while developing your agenda driven posts. Most people go along with our questioning but when someone comes along and completely debunks your theory that the BBall program has tone inns great state based alley off the fact that Stans barely had any seasons compared to Ray revenue wise.

Look it if makes you feel high and might to spew numbers and stats on here all day about hitting, three point shooting, or how many times a player picks his nose or ass, go right ahead. Most people won't question the or care to fact check. The only reason I even posted on it before is because one cannot simply look at $'s in as a measuring stick of anything. You took the "revenue" alone as your measuring stick in an attempt to prop up Rick Ray and put down a stans supporter. Your post is now in here for reference.

With Engie math a person making $80k a year with $75k a year expenses is better off than a person making $60k/yr with $35k/yr expenses. It's really not that difficult to comprehend that clearing a higher percentage of any amount of revenue of far better for the person or institution. Believe me I deal with your kind every day. They focus on one item or cause and build a huge arguments to support it when multiple factors go into the total overall evaluation. I believe most of this has to be way over your head because the profit margins remaining stagnant between coaching moves, was about as simple as I could have explained that using "revenue alone" to advocates for a coach is inadequate and unreliable. Yet you can't handle that and start going on rants, picking my posts apart, and try to divert attention.

Bottom line. You were completely wrong for attempting to use "revenue" to put down a Stans guy by using those numbers.

[TheDogFather]

Just another in a long line of your herp derps...

Year BB Expenses BB Revenue Net
2010 4052623 6914565 2861942
2011 5430979 7002963 1571984
2012 4312955 6744710 2431755
2013 4377759 6571274 2193515

Stansbury's last 2 - Net $4,433,926
Ray's first 2 - Net $4,625,270

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

I went back and looked at 2003 - 2009 which is the data you conveniently excluded.

From 2003 - 2010 revenue was increasing $750,000 per year. Since 2010 revenue has decreased. But that wouldn't fit your narrative

[tcdog70]

Who even takes time to read all the bullshit stats that Engie bombards the Board with.He uses selective numbers and hardly even puts up unbiased information. He is like Obama telling us that unemployment is going down--we all know that is Bullshit and He has changed the way unemployment has been calculated for years. Coach and Engie disregard info that won't fit their agenda. When your team two years ago was absolutely terrible and now they are just terrible, I don't want to see some bullshit stats telling Me about their improvement--I can simply watch them and tell we still sux.

[MSUDawg4Life]

http://bavatuesdays.com/files/2012/11/Untitled.gif

[engie]

Who even takes time to read all the bullshit stats that Engie bombards the Board with.He uses selective numbers and hardly even puts up unbiased information. He is like Obama telling us that unemployment is going down--we all know that is Bullshit and He has changed the way unemployment has been calculated for years. Coach and Engie disregard info that won't fit their agenda. When your team two years ago was absolutely terrible and now they are just terrible, I don't want to see some bullshit stats telling Me about their improvement--I can simply watch them and tell we still sux.

So, bring your own numbers to combat them. But you can't. So, you make up a bunch of "unemployment recalculation" straw man stuff in attempt to sound good -- and never actually say anything at all.

I don't have an "agenda". I'm not pushing "an agenda". I'm not starting threads with an "agenda".

[engie]

This all boils down to me calling your so called game of spewing stats and numbers around on here without anyone questioning how you came up with said numbers and what key elements you disregarded while developing your agenda driven posts. Most people go along with our questioning but when someone comes along and completely debunks your theory that the BBall program has tone inns great state based alley off the fact that Stans barely had any seasons compared to Ray revenue wise.

Look it if makes you feel high and might to spew numbers and stats on here all day about hitting, three point shooting, or how many times a player picks his nose or ass, go right ahead. Most people won't question the or care to fact check. The only reason I even posted on it before is because one cannot simply look at $'s in as a measuring stick of anything. You took the "revenue" alone as your measuring stick in an attempt to prop up Rick Ray and put down a stans supporter. Your post is now in here for reference.

With Engie math a person making $80k a year with $75k a year expenses is better off than a person making $60k/yr with $35k/yr expenses. It's really not that difficult to comprehend that clearing a higher percentage of any amount of revenue of far better for the person or institution. Believe me I deal with your kind every day. They focus on one item or cause and build a huge arguments to support it when multiple factors go into the total overall evaluation. I believe most of this has to be way over your head because the profit margins remaining stagnant between coaching moves, was about as simple as I could have explained that using "revenue alone" to advocates for a coach is inadequate and unreliable. Yet you can't handle that and start going on rants, picking my posts apart, and try to divert attention.

Bottom line. You were completely wrong for attempting to use "revenue" to put down a Stans guy by using those numbers.

Dumbasses gotta keep dumbassing....

You haven't "debunked" anything. Other than the idea that you know what you are talking about. That much is debunked.

Your money reference -- LULZ. No -- Engie thinks the guy making $100K with 40k expenses is better off than the guy making 75k with 25k expenses which is the ACCURATE representation of the statistical data(we all know you wouldn't dare post anything that was accurate). You keep straw manning about margins -- when I've already shown Ray to have greater margins. All that's proven is that you are too stupid to know you are stupid.

No -- I was completely right to put down a a guy accusing Ray of "losing money" by using the numbers proving that we are not, in fact, losing money -- but making just as much money as before. I'm sorry that my factual representation of our financial reality has wounded you so deeply that it's sent you into utter denial.

The funniest part of all this is -- there is a very simple LOGICAL, factual approach to take to arguing these very numbers with the opposing viewpoint -- but none of you are apparently smart enough to figure out how to actually do it. One day when I'm bored -- I'll post it for you.

[Smitty]

The playbook is that Engie does a piss poor job of explaining his point thinking a bunch of numbers will do it. It might all sound good in his head but reads as junk. Also, when someone clearly states their view he will say that's not what you said and begin to argue against the point he tries to attribute to you. It's tiresome for sure.

[engie]

Good Lord -- you really want to enter into this discussion?


The playbook is that Engie does a piss poor job of explaining his point thinking a bunch of numbers will do it.
LOL @ this coming from you. Hope you aren't grounded -- lightning is coming for you.


It might all sound good in his head but reads as junk.
HAHAHA -- again. How is your boy Garner doing in JUCO? Noticed you haven't beat us over the head with that like you did when Flair hit well last year. I wonder why? Oh -- because he's still striking out at a Wes Rea rate and hitting well below the mendoza line. Speaking of which -- do I need to bring up the post where you alleged Garner is our best possible option at first and that Rooker, Ingram, and Rea were light years behind?


Also, when someone clearly states their view he will say that's not what you said and begin to argue against the point he tries to attribute to you. It's tiresome for sure.
Then engie will ask for a link. And you won't provide one.

[Smitty]

And you refuted nothing from your playbook. Divert attention, feel superior. Go Engine go.

BTW Garner leads his team in HR and RBI. Over 25% of his team's RBI to be exact. Average will come with sample size ask John Holland or Brett Pirtle. Lulz.

[Coach34]

Next thread, let's argue weather with The Ref

[MadDawg]

So pasting a quote you said yourself from a month ago showing where you were trying to put someone else down, while defending Ray by using "revenue" numbers, I am somehow making up lies about you?

Welcome to my world.

[fishwater99]

I went back and looked at 2003 - 2009 which is the data you conveniently excluded.

From 2003 - 2010 revenue was increasing $750,000 per year. Since 2010 revenue has decreased. But that wouldn't fit your narrative

Also, does our Bball revenue numbers include TV revenue, which has increased significantly with the SEC Network.
We definitely are not better off financially with Ray at the helm.