Braves

[msstate7]

Shae Simmons is the latest to have TJ surgery

Carroll Rogers?@CarrollRogers?6 mins6 minutes ago
#Braves just announced Shae Simmons underwent Tommy John surgery today performed by Dr. Andrews in Gulf Breeze.

Why are all these pitchers having TJ surgery?!

[Todd4State]

It's an epidemic throughout baseball. Many believe it's because of kids throwing too many innings at a young age too soon on the travel ball circuit without proper rest and also because of some kids focusing on baseball only rather than playing other sports in addition to baseball.

[msstate7]

It's an epidemic throughout baseball. Many believe it's because of kids throwing too many innings at a young age too soon on the travel ball circuit without proper rest and also because of some kids focusing on baseball only rather than playing other sports in addition to baseball.

It's getting ridiculous. It seems as more pitch and inning limits are imposed, there's more TJ injuries.

[Todd4State]

MLB has just now started to address it. Hopefully as parents and coaches become more educated, it will get better over time.

[War Machine Dawg]

It's an epidemic throughout baseball. Many believe it's because of kids throwing too many innings at a young age too soon on the travel ball circuit without proper rest and also because of some kids focusing on baseball only rather than playing other sports in addition to baseball.

While I think that certainly plays a large part, you can't deny some clubs seems to have a much bigger problem with it than others. The Braves are one of them. And as someone who likes and semi-follows the Cards, they almost never seem to have anyone undergo TJ surgery. It makes me wonder what the hell the Braves are doing with these guys in the minors.

[Todd4State]

While I think that certainly plays a large part, you can't deny some clubs seems to have a much bigger problem with it than others. The Braves are one of them. And as someone who likes and semi-follows the Cards, they almost never seem to have anyone undergo TJ surgery. It makes me wonder what the hell the Braves are doing with these guys in the minors.

Yeah, but it's hard to know without actually being on the inside and it's hard to pinpoint what the cause may or may not be. The Cardinals have had their share of weird injuries like Wacha's shoulder blade, Garcia's thoracic outlet syndrome. And I will say that I openly questioned how the Cardinals used and in my opinion overworked Trevor Rosenthal last year, which I hope doesn't come back to bite us this year.

[Dawg61]

Incentive is backwards because the pitchers come out with stronger arms after the surgery. Doctors and teams know this now so they are starting to encourage the surgeries. It's imo another form of performance enhancing. Matt Harvey had his new ligament wrapped around the elbow twice giving him double ligaments in his elbow = performance enhancing.

[msstate7]

Incentive is backwards because the pitchers come out with stronger arms after the surgery. Doctors and teams know this now so they are starting to encourage the surgeries. It's imo another form of performance enhancing. Matt Harvey had his new ligament wrapped around the elbow twice giving him double ligaments in his elbow = performance enhancing.

Risky though. You get a second TJ and you're essentially done

[Todd4State]

Incentive is backwards because the pitchers come out with stronger arms after the surgery. Doctors and teams know this now so they are starting to encourage the surgeries. It's imo another form of performance enhancing. Matt Harvey had his new ligament wrapped around the elbow twice giving him double ligaments in his elbow = performance enhancing. I think it's much more likely because their arm was hurt to start with and the improved performance is because the surgery healed them. Unless you consider a hip replacement a performance enhancement for people that can't walk, or pick your surgery really.

[Todd4State]

Risky though. You get a second TJ and you're essentially done

A surgeon worth his salt is not going to do Tommy John just because someone wants it- it's not like breast implants. Thread heading south in 3...2...

[Dawg61]

I think it's much more likely because their arm was hurt to start with and the improved performance is because the surgery healed them. Unless you consider a hip replacement a performance enhancement for people that can't walk, or pick your surgery really.

MLB pitchers are consistently increasing velocity and stamina after TJ surgery specifically. The doctors are so good at this surgery now they're literally stockpiling stronger arms now on purpose. Look it up. It's a thing.

[smootness]

MLB pitchers are consistently increasing velocity and stamina after TJ surgery specifically. The doctors are so good at this surgery now they're literally stockpiling stronger arms now on purpose. Look it up. It's a thing.

No, it's not.

And I believe the main reason it's happening more is because pitchers don't build up arm strength or use proper mechanics, then they go throw with full effort.

If pitchers threw more on the side to build up strength, then pitched closer to 90 or 95% effort, I think you'd see less of it.

[dawgs]

It's getting ridiculous. It seems as more pitch and inning limits are imposed, there's more TJ injuries.

Because the damage is often done before MLB teams get to them. I agree with todd, it's the year round travel ball when these guys are 12-18 that's the problem.

[msstate7]

Because the damage is done before MLB teams get to them. I agree with todd, it's the year round travel ball when these guys are 12-18 that's the problem.

Didn't think of that. Arms are hanging by a thread if you will by the time they turn pro

[TopDog58]

Didn't think of that. Arms are hanging by a thread if you will by the time they turn pro

Yep, and it's not ALL on the coaches. Seen it too much from dads wanting their star boy to pitch their 8 innings EVERY weekend. They play on teams that travel 3 weekends a month and then sub on another team when theirs isn't playing. I've seen 12-13 year old kids crying on the mound in April or May because their arm hurts, yet dear old dad and coach continue to march them out because there is still 2 months left in the season.

[TopDog58]

Because the damage is often done before MLB teams get to them. I agree with todd, it's the year round travel ball when these guys are 12-18 that's the problem.

Shit, it's starting way before then. You have kid pitch starting at 9. Some kids' dads don't want to wait so they play them up starting at 8. It's ridiculous. And daddy ball coaches go right along with it.

There are some teams that do it right, but many more that do it wrong. You have some coaches that want to go undefeated every weekend so they'll rely on 2 or 3 pitchers and pitch the hell out of them. It's good for the future of those that don't get to pitch, but those that carry the load are throwing 1000-1500 pitches each spring.

Then the cycle starts right back again in fall ball. Hell, some teams don't stop. And I'm just speaking from experience in middle of the road USSSA ball in Mississippi. Go look at the uber teams from Texas and Florida. They are playing 70-80 games between Oct and July.

[MetEdDawg]

double post

[MetEdDawg]

The problem is that baseball has become a year round sport. If you listen to people like Dr. Andrews and many others, you need a solid 2 months of NOTHING in the offseason. No throwing, no lifting, no anything. That gets the shoulder and elbow the rest and recovery it needs to repair the damage done during the season.

But now kids can start throwing in December/January for school and play through April/May, then immediately go play travel ball, then either play fall ball, winter ball, or throw to prepare for the next season. They don't ever stop throwing. So all these kids already have structural damage when they get to college or get drafted and they end up having TJ surgery at an earlier age.

Travel ball to me is terrible and I think is undercutting school ball which is where, for the most part, the real training and conditioning and care of the athlete takes place. That doesn't happen on a lot of travel ball teams. At my school we do arm care after every bullpen, stricit icing requirements, predetermined rest between bullpens, and gradually increasing bullpens to work the guys into pitching. A lot of travel ball doesn't do that and it ruins the kids.

[Really Clark?]

MetEdDawg I'm going to have to disagree with you some. I have seen just as many HS coaches ruin arms as I've seen travel ball coaches. Every possible inning their main pitcher could pitch, he would pitch. Never checking pitch counts during the week, plus have them throw batting practice two days after throwing a complete game. But honestly, a lot of it has to do with the parents and their issues. Pushing their child much further than they should have been. There are many good travel organizations that know more than a majority of the schools in this state. Especially in the smaller schools. Heck I had to play for 2 years in high school for a coach who never played baseball and didn't have a clue about the game. One of our two main pitchers from our summer team he never would pitch because he didn't throw as hard as some of the other guys. Idiots are every where. And girls softball is even worse with the pitchers. People assume that since its a "natural motion" then there is little to no harm. If it's slow pitch they have a point but fast pitch is seeing a tremendous increase in arm problems including TJ surgery. Dr Andrews is addressing this as well.

The part of the equation you are also missing is you will not get looked at by colleges or scouts just playing high school. The coaches do not have the time or funding to do so. You have to attend showcase events in most cases. They can see a lot of atheletes over a weekend and they get to judge them against really good competion. Like it or not travel is here to stay so what we need to do is educate the coaches and ourselves to make good decisions for our child. Go watch some prospective teams and see what the coaches do with playing and pitching time over a weekend. Is the coach just going to throw 2-3 pitchers or does he use more? Is the team built strickly for winning (which is very difficult to guage sometimes because I have seen some really good coaches with good teams struggle to keep the teams together because the parents just look at their win loss records and trophies. They won't look to see that a lot of his losses was when he pitched the lower rated pitchers to give them a fair share of work). Seems to keep going back to parents doesn't it.

Now where I do agree with you wholeheartedly is the down time. Atheletes need time away from a sport for physical and mental rest. Dr Andrews and others are trying to impress on the parents to take charge and to have better understanding of the long term effects. Make no mistake if the child has ability it will show. But too many parents are invested in having the 10 year old superstar. I want my child to love the sport for a long time and to continue to get better to be great when they are older. Not at 10-12. It's a marathon. I also believe it is better for the overall athelete, if they choose to do so, to also play multiple sports. Some atheletes are not building up all of the muscles that would benefit them. Saw a really good team one time warm up. Very crisp and fundamentally sound. The problem was I found out they were all 16 year olds and they had really no one with much power above a lot of a 14 year olds. The team won a lot and trained all the time but with very little cross training even among the teammates. They trained at their position exclusively. And not one of those players were drafted or got a D-1 offer out of HS. One of the pitchers and a back up OF, after playing JUCO and mid level D-1 ball did eventually play some minor league ball. The back-up player even played a few games in the Majors. But the majority of that team never learned to also be explosive the right way.

[Dawg61]

Braves signed EY Jr. today. Good player imo. Potential leadoff hitter.

[msstate7]

Braves signed EY Jr. today. Good player imo. Potential leadoff hitter.

And the man who ruined our potential WS run by stepping on hudson's ankle couple of years ago.


Think we want him to compete with almonte to platoon with gomes in LF