Does Ray have any expectations, or does he get a pass forever?

[SouthMsDawg]

I like the guy personally, and think that hes a very likable guy who means well. However unless he finds some new assistants who can coach and recruit offensive players who can hit open jumpers and score the ball we are never going to get any better.

Assuming he is back next year, what expectations are expected next year or are there any? If yall have noticed Ray along with announcers are starting to use the comment "this is like my first year" to try to win over sympathy bc of the shit show he inherited. However it ACTUALLY is YEAR 3 and we still can't shoot the 3, are one of the worst teams in the nation in Assist to turnover ratio, and are dead last in the SEC in scoring. We do play tough defense though. However if you can't score off turnovers it kills your chances to win games.

I assume we will win a couple more games this year, and with that said after a 3rd straight losing season what are and will be the expectations for RICK RAY and the Mississippi State basketball program going into 2015-2016?

Also, how does Ray expect to improve attendance. Its sad to see the Hump look so empty on TV game after game.

[Coach34]

I think pretty much everyone expected to win last night.

Indications are he is returning next year. Anything short of a postseason appearance should lead to firing. Hell, 5 or less wins in the SEC this year is worth firing to me.

[HailState39110]

Croom went to a bowl game in his 4th year. Nough said

[engie]

He's on the clock now. Has been all year.

He needs to make the NCAA tourney next year for me to be satisfied with keeping him around. Even the worst situations manage to get it going by year 4 if they are going to get going. Scott Drew made the NCAAs in year 5 -- in spite of sanctions not allowing him to play a nonconference schedule in year 3 and on NCAA probation looming/enacted through year 7 there. Tom Crean took a probation team and made the Sweet 16 in year 4. Our situation wasn't as bad as either of those.

If we aren't winning at Stansbury levels by year 4 with at least 4 upperclassmen starters, led by a core of 3 seniors that will be leaving, we just aren't going to win at that level under this regime -- and it will be time to do something different.

To me, and I've supported Ray along the way, but he hasn't met my expectations in year 2 and isn't in year 3 either. 3 straight underachievements, and I'm calling for his head along with everyone else. Although that doesn't guarantee that I'll be "correct" -- as I felt like I saw approximately 3 straight underachievements from Mullen from Auburn2011-aTm2013, although that was nowhere near the level of ineptitude that Ray has shown us at times...

[Liverpooldawg]

I think he should be fired if we finish below .500 again. In all honesty as an SEC school you shouldn't finish below .500 ever. Doing it three times in a row is completely unacceptable. If that happens and he is still the coach it starts to reflect badly higher up in the athletic department.

[Liverpooldawg]

Mullen never approached this level of bad play. He was also coaching in the top division of the top football conference in the country. The SEC in basketball is nowhere near that level.

I find the word underachieving very interesting in this context. The sad thing is I'm not sure we are underachieving in basketball. It looks to me that except on the odd nights when we make more shots than we normally do, what you are seeing is what we got. What we desperately need is a few shooters. Maybe Jimmy Chitwood still has some eligibility left.

[codeDawg]

He needs to make the NCAA tourney next year for me to be satisfied with keeping him around.

I agree, and I also know he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell to accomplish that. We need to move on.

[HoopsDawg]

We have to put feelers out to see if anyone will take this job. We can't fire him without a plan in place.

[tcdog70]

we are burning daylight with Rick Ray. In 3 years His team still can't inbound the ball. Zone defenses completely baffle Him. Fire Ray Today!

[HancockCountyDog]

Im concerned about giving him next year. We give him next year and lets say we improve and go 9-9 in SEC and win 20 games and make the NIT with an extremely senior laden team. If that happens, he won't get fired. Then looking at 2016/17, we will be starting over. Barring a monster recruiting class for the 2016 season, we would be sacrificing the 2016/17 season and maybe more.

I just think if you give him next year, you are most likely giving him two more years.

[codeDawg]

Im concerned about giving him next year. We give him next year and lets say we improve and go 9-9 in SEC and win 20 games and make the NIT with an extremely senior laden team. If that happens, he won't get fired. Then looking at 2016/17, we will be starting over. Barring a monster recruiting class for the 2016 season, we would be sacrificing the 2016/17 season and maybe more.

I just think if you give him next year, you are most likely giving him two more years.

Yup. We are Croom-ing ourselves all over again.

[msstate7]

We have to put feelers out to see if anyone will take this job. We can't fire him without a plan in place.

I agree. If we can get a good coach this year, make the move. If we don't have a deal in place, hold off till we do

[HoopsDawg]

Yup. We are Croom-ing ourselves all over again.

297th in the country in total offense.
340th in assist to turnover ratio.
326th in 3 pointers made per game.

[TheDogFather]

I think pretty much everyone expected to win last night.

Indications are he is returning next year. Anything short of a postseason appearance should lead to firing. Hell, 5 or less wins in the SEC this year is worth firing to me.

Why the change of heart? Last week you berated a thread with your 100% certainty that Ray is given next year. You said you had the highest source. Why hedge on that bet now? Wrong then or wrong now?

[RougeDawg]

I agree. If we can get a good coach this year, make the move. If we don't have a deal in place, hold off till we do

F*ck. We could have a mannequin on the sideline holdings clipboard and win more games than we do now. I've been saying it since day one. We WOULD win more games without a head coach than we do with Ray coaching us. Plus we could save a mil a year.

Unless we finish 7-11 in SEC this year he should be gone. Without his dukbass substitutions and personnel groupings we would have 2-3 more SEC W's already. For those to not see this, you must not be looking.

[msugolf]

We are in a really bad spot with our men's basketball program as it relates to its future.

Lets say he gets a 4th year and somehow finds his way into the NIT. That will in turn buy him at least 2 more years and we'll be stuck right back in the same situation. There will be no true fan support, even if he starts winning some games. Once you lose a customer/client (fans/supporters as it relates to sports) then your chances of ever getting them back are close to 0. They might pay more attention to you if you produce a slightly better product but they definitely won't totally reinvest or buy back in.

Or lets say he gets a 4th year and doesn't make any post season, which I think happens. He's then let go and we are starting over from scratch, while trying to entice a new coach to come into a situation where the cupboard is bare, which in turn lengthens the recovery process.

To me its a pretty easy decision really. You have to cut your losses. Ray's ceiling is extremely limited. We have a PG who isn't strong or explosive enough to fight through traps or create a shot. A SG (Sword) who can not go to his left and is limited shooting the ball. Another 3 guard, Thomas, who has extremely low ball handling skills, problems creating a shot, inconsistent. A 4/5 Ware, that lacks explosiveness, toughness and settles for jump shots. Another 4, Houston, who is an outstanding athlete, but below average ball handler and shooter.

Those are a lot of personnel issues to have on a team when trying to convince me that "next year" will be their year. At this point, you pretty much know what you have going forward and we don't have much. Lack a scoring threat in the post, lack a true 3 and stretch 4, no true ball handlers other than Ready, and most of all, the lack of any consistent outside shooters.

[Jack Lambert]

I agree. If we can get a good coach this year, make the move. If we don't have a deal in place, hold off till we do

There are a lot of good coaches out there who would love to make a move to the SEC money.

[Coach34]

Why the change of heart? Last week you berated a thread with your 100% certainty that Ray is given next year. You said you had the highest source. Why hedge on that bet now? Wrong then or wrong now?

Im not hedging- I was told he is getting next year

im simply saying what I personally would do

[SouthMsDawg]

Yup. We are Croom-ing ourselves all over again.

BINGO

[M.Fillmore]

This whole thing illustrates, that while Opie is far better than LT, he will never be a great AD. The hoops hire process was poorly conceived, resulted in a bad hire and Opie feels compelled to prove he was right and cram that square peg into the round hole. This is a Templeton type attitude.

Next year Ray will window dress, hire a new (and desperate) assistant or two, make the NIT due to seniors, get a contract extension, and stink again. Meanwhile Coach International Incident will make the NCAAs, open a new arena and Opie will surrender a 55 year advantage that we have had over Fredo in hoops. Hoddy Toddy.

And none of the above has anything to do with last night's loss to Bama. It has been apparent for a while.

[HancockCountyDog]

For those of you that really want Ray gone, you better hope he doesn't beat the confederates. If he loses to the greys, the pressure will be turned up. I know I couldn't root for the bears if they were playing ISIS, but it could be a 2008 Egg Bowl situation where it is a necessary evil;

[Jack Lambert]

I know I couldn't root for the bears if they were playing ISIS;

Watching that game would be like watching those old WWII movies where the German are fighting the Russians. You don't care who get killed.

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

I like Ray. I argued that he should be given a chance to show whether he can get it done or not. He needed to be given that chance, and to me he has now had that chance. He needs to go.

Last night they had him mic'd up. If you can, just go back and listen to the discussions he had with his team during TOs. When he is constantly telling his teams things like "just play good defense. Don't worry about offense, it will take care of itself.", you can get a pretty good picture of what he brings to the table as a coach. He stresses defense, which is not a bad thing, and his teams play very hard and pretty well defensively. But, I'm not sure he even bothers bringing a ball into the gym during practices because he sure as hell is not teaching his players anything about offense.

Those TO discussions confirmed that in my opinion. His view is to play hard on defense, then hope and pray one of this players can make a shot to save the game from on offensive standpoint. We cannot dribble. We cannot pass. We have no idea what floor spacing and passing lanes mean. We are clueless on how to actually break a press by any other means than "sprint as fast as you can and pray you beat the defense down the court". We cannot shoot. Our post players routinely have no idea what to do with the ball when they get it, as they have clearly not been taught or had any work on refining post moves. Zone offense seems to be above everyone's head, including the head coach's.

Memo to Coach Ray. Yes, defense is very important. However, no, the 17ing offense will NOT simply "take care of itself".

[Goat from MSU]

Does the person who told you know what is going on,what are the reasons for keeping Ray. There got to be a reason or are we digging our heels in the sand over this. I hope I am not right on this but does your friend need that glass stomach after all.
Im not hedging- I was told he is getting next year

im simply saying what I personally would do

[MabenMaroon]

297th in the country in total offense.
340th in assist to turnover ratio.
326th in 3 pointers made per game.

I didn't realize you could rank as low as 340th, shit, that is the other side of the earth low!

[Political Hack]

I know YMCA teams that commit fewer TOs.

[MabenMaroon]

I like Ray. I argued that he should be given a chance to show whether he can get it done or not. He needed to be given that chance, and to me he has now had that chance. He needs to go.

Last night they had him mic'd up. If you can, just go back and listen to the discussions he had with his team during TOs. When he is constantly telling his teams things like "just play good defense. Don't worry about offense, it will take care of itself.", you can get a pretty good picture of what he brings to the table as a coach. He stresses defense, which is not a bad thing, and his teams play very hard and pretty well defensively. But, I'm not sure he even bothers bringing a ball into the gym during practices because he sure as hell is not teaching his players anything about offense.

Those TO discussions confirmed that in my opinion. His view is to play hard on defense, then hope and pray one of this players can make a shot to save the game from on offensive standpoint. We cannot dribble. We cannot pass. We have no idea what floor spacing and passing lanes mean. We are clueless on how to actually break a press by any other means than "sprint as fast as you can and pray you beat the defense down the court". We cannot shoot. Our post players routinely have no idea what to do with the ball when they get it, as they have clearly not been taught or had any work on refining post moves. Zone offense seems to be above everyone's head, including the head coach's.

Memo to Coach Ray. Yes, defense is very important. However, no, the 17ing offense will NOT simply "take care of itself".

Yep! The commentators kept mentioning he was yelling 31, 31 meaning guard the back like 3 on 1 and it made good sense, BUT! if one does the math, that means the rest of the team has to guard like 2 on 4, which seems to me to be an advantage for the opponents offense. And it seems that invariably we will force the opponent deep into the shot clock only to allow a back door cut make an easy layup or will foul the opponent sending them to the line.
I have wavered from both sides of the Coach Ray fence and right now, I am back on the negative side, this shit storm ( hurricane ) has got to stop, thought it was slacking up the past few weeks but it is becoming apparent that was the eye of the storm passing by and now the backside of the storm is kicking in. There is despair and then there is DESPAIR! Hate to be a fair weather fan but I am shifting all of my attention and effort to women's basketball, women's golf, softball and baseball until the fall football season rolls around.

[thunderclap]

Ain't no way Stricklin is gonna fire him after this year. Despite the fact that he was sitting at a desk in Starkville and watched close up what we let Sly Croom get away with.

[Dawg61]

Ain't no way Stricklin is gonna fire him after this year. Despite the fact that he was sitting at a desk in Starkville and watched close up what we let Sly Croom get away with.

That's why I think Strick should go too. It's obvious firing Ray this year is the only acceptable option yet Strick will choose to not and that will set us back another five years. It'll be a decade long before we make the NCAA tourney again.

[Coach34]

Does the person who told you know what is going on,what are the reasons for keeping Ray. There got to be a reason or are we digging our heels in the sand over this. I hope I am not right on this but does your friend need that glass stomach after all.

Person that told me works on campus

[HoopsDawg]

Ain't no way Stricklin is gonna fire him after this year. Despite the fact that he was sitting at a desk in Starkville and watched close up what we let Sly Croom get away with.

no one thought we would fire Croom one year removed from being named the SEC coach of the year. It's not good to speak in absolutes. Stricklin needs to let the season play out, evaluate his options, and then make the best decision for MSU.

[msstate7]

no one thought we would fire Croom one year removed from being named the SEC coach of the year. It's not good to speak in absolutes. Stricklin needs to let the season play out, evaluate his options, and then make the best decision for MSU.

That wasn't SS. Byrne didn't hire croom.

Not saying SS won't fire ray, but less likely imo

[HoopsDawg]

That wasn't SS. Byrne didn't hire croom.

Not saying SS won't fire ray, but less likely imo

I realize that. I'm speaking of message board posters. No one on the message boards thought we would fire Croom and we did.

I'm not ready to write Stricklin off b/c of one mistake. Byrne made mistakes too. Byrne is the one who killed the atmosphere in the Hump by moving the students away from mid court and also shouldn't have fired Hank Flick.

[TopDog58]

I like Ray. I argued that he should be given a chance to show whether he can get it done or not. He needed to be given that chance, and to me he has now had that chance. He needs to go.

Last night they had him mic'd up. If you can, just go back and listen to the discussions he had with his team during TOs. When he is constantly telling his teams things like "just play good defense. Don't worry about offense, it will take care of itself.", you can get a pretty good picture of what he brings to the table as a coach. He stresses defense, which is not a bad thing, and his teams play very hard and pretty well defensively. But, I'm not sure he even bothers bringing a ball into the gym during practices because he sure as hell is not teaching his players anything about offense.

Those TO discussions confirmed that in my opinion. His view is to play hard on defense, then hope and pray one of this players can make a shot to save the game from on offensive standpoint. We cannot dribble. We cannot pass. We have no idea what floor spacing and passing lanes mean. We are clueless on how to actually break a press by any other means than "sprint as fast as you can and pray you beat the defense down the court". We cannot shoot. Our post players routinely have no idea what to do with the ball when they get it, as they have clearly not been taught or had any work on refining post moves. Zone offense seems to be above everyone's head, including the head coach's.

Memo to Coach Ray. Yes, defense is very important. However, no, the 17ing offense will NOT simply "take care of itself".

Due to the lazy hire of retaining George Brooks. He wasn't even a good assistant under Bury. Even worse player.

[engie]

This whole thing illustrates, that while Opie is far better than LT, he will never be a great AD. The hoops hire process was poorly conceived, resulted in a bad hire and Opie feels compelled to prove he was right and cram that square peg into the round hole. This is a Templeton type attitude.
Omniscience is quite the gift, if you'd be willing to let the rest of us borrow some of it**

No one knows what Strick's attitude is. Let's not sit here and pretend that Strick hasn't made hard decisions when the time comes. He's been anything but a "yes" man. Anyone alleging this of him hasn't been watching the same things that I have apparently.

He torched a couple of lifelong bulldogs for underperformance in athletics in any sport. Hazelwood(alum)? Out. Fanning-Otis(after 17 years)? Gone. Jay Miller(after 9 years at MSU)? Out. Everyone knows the story with Stansbury. Dynamiting Dudy Noble? He's doing it. Let's not pretend it doesn't take cajones to concoct that plan and follow through with it... Softball/tennis renovation -- underway. Moving the golf teams to a new clubhouse at Old Waverly -- likely at the cost of the local course(and met with much negativity among factions) -- Did it, and it'll probably end up making us a powerhouse in the sport.

I thought Hazelwood got one year too long, and hindsight says Stansbury was put out at the wrong time(one year too early or too late -- depending on your POV -- but given that we crashed and burned anyway, it would have been a better case to allow him to be the one that did it). The rest of them were fired exactly when they needed to be fired. And outside of MBB, the new hires have been tremendous... So, let's just wait and see what the rest of the year brings...

[engie]

no one thought we would fire Croom one year removed from being named the SEC coach of the year. It's not good to speak in absolutes. Stricklin needs to let the season play out, evaluate his options, and then make the best decision for MSU.

Exactly.

Let's see how it ends before we make decisions -- about decisions -- that have not, in actuality, yet been made...

[Goat from MSU]

You kinda stated that the other day ,but what are the reasons for keeping him ,must be because of writing off the first year. They need to be looking at the long term and a empty Hump. What happens at the end of the season will be felt 5 years down the road either way. If you would like to share those reasons they give for keeping him we are all ears.
Person that told me works on campus

[Goat from MSU]

Do you know something C34 does not?
Exactly.

Let's see how it ends before we make decisions -- about decisions -- that have not, in actuality, yet been made...

[engie]

Do you know something C34 does not?

I know decisions about futures aren't made mid-season and is way outside of Stricklin's normal MO. Common sense says that Strick is going to publicly support Rick Ray right up until the very day that he fires him...

We have to look no further than Stansbury's actual resigning to get the answer to the question. No one knew it was happening until after the season(because it wasn't). More particularly, after the postseason meeting between Strick and Stans, where Strick laid out ultimatums for him to accomplish to stick around, Stans felt insulted, and refused those ultimatums, and walked.

Strick wasn't expecting to have to make that coaching hire at that time. It's clear that it caught him off guard. He was very naive at the time. He knows full well right now that it's a pretty good chance he has to make a move soon... There's no excuse not to have out $2mil feelers already to potential "home run" hires just to see who is biting...

[Political Hack]

I know decisions about futures aren't made mid-season and is way outside of Stricklin's normal MO. Common sense says that Strick is going to publicly support Rick Ray right up until the very day that he fires him...

We have to look no further than Stansbury's actual resigning to get the answer to the question. No one knew it was happening until after the season(because it wasn't). More particularly, after the postseason meeting between Strick and Stans, where Strick laid out ultimatums for him to accomplish to stick around, Stans felt insulted, and refused those ultimatums, and walked.

Strick wasn't expecting to have to make that coaching hire at that time. It's clear that it caught him off guard. He was very naive at the time. He knows full well right now that it's a pretty good chance he has to make a move soon... There's no excuse not to have out $2mil feelers already to potential "home run" hires just to see who is biting...

If Strick doesn't fire Ray after this season, his fate is tied to Ray's as far as I'm concerned. And if he wants to chain himself to a sinking ship, go right ahead... Tired of getting gump when we need some gumption.

[Goat from MSU]

That is what I thought ,in the last 7 games we could easily win 6 or lose 5 who knows. Strickin and Ray need to have a Come to Jesus meeting at the end of the season. that is for sure
I know decisions about futures aren't made mid-season and is way outside of Stricklin's normal MO. Common sense says that Strick is going to publicly support Rick Ray right up until the very day that he fires him...

We have to look no further than Stansbury's actual resigning to get the answer to the question. No one knew it was happening until after the season(because it wasn't). More particularly, after the postseason meeting between Strick and Stans, where Strick laid out ultimatums for him to accomplish to stick around, Stans felt insulted, and refused those ultimatums, and walked.

Strick wasn't expecting to have to make that coaching hire at that time. It's clear that it caught him off guard. He was very naive at the time. He knows full well right now that it's a pretty good chance he has to make a move soon... There's no excuse not to have out $2mil feelers already to potential "home run" hires just to see who is biting...

[tcdog70]

Omniscience is quite the gift, if you'd be willing to let the rest of us borrow some of it**

No one knows what Strick's attitude is. Let's not sit here and pretend that Strick hasn't made hard decisions when the time comes. He's been anything but a "yes" man. Anyone alleging this of him hasn't been watching the same things that I have apparently.

He torched a couple of lifelong bulldogs for underperformance in athletics in any sport. Hazelwood(alum)? Out. Fanning-Otis(after 17 years)? Gone. Jay Miller(after 9 years at MSU)? Out. Everyone knows the story with Stansbury. Dynamiting Dudy Noble? He's doing it. Let's not pretend it doesn't take cajones to concoct that plan and follow through with it... Softball/tennis renovation -- underway. Moving the golf teams to a new clubhouse at Old Waverly -- likely at the cost of the local course(and met with much negativity among factions) -- Did it, and it'll probably end up making us a powerhouse in the sport.

I thought Hazelwood got one year too long, and hindsight says Stansbury was put out at the wrong time(one year too early or too late -- depending on your POV -- but given that we crashed and burned anyway, it would have been a better case to allow him to be the one that did it). The rest of them were fired exactly when they needed to be fired. And outside of MBB, the new hires have been tremendous... So, let's just wait and see what the rest of the year brings...

I agree with you on this post

[maroonmania]

Omniscience is quite the gift, if you'd be willing to let the rest of us borrow some of it**

No one knows what Strick's attitude is. Let's not sit here and pretend that Strick hasn't made hard decisions when the time comes. He's been anything but a "yes" man. Anyone alleging this of him hasn't been watching the same things that I have apparently.

He torched a couple of lifelong bulldogs for underperformance in athletics in any sport. Hazelwood(alum)? Out. Fanning-Otis(after 17 years)? Gone. Jay Miller(after 9 years at MSU)? Out. Everyone knows the story with Stansbury. Dynamiting Dudy Noble? He's doing it. Let's not pretend it doesn't take cajones to concoct that plan and follow through with it... Softball/tennis renovation -- underway. Moving the golf teams to a new clubhouse at Old Waverly -- likely at the cost of the local course(and met with much negativity among factions) -- Did it, and it'll probably end up making us a powerhouse in the sport.

I thought Hazelwood got one year too long, and hindsight says Stansbury was put out at the wrong time(one year too early or too late -- depending on your POV -- but given that we crashed and burned anyway, it would have been a better case to allow him to be the one that did it). The rest of them were fired exactly when they needed to be fired. And outside of MBB, the new hires have been tremendous... So, let's just wait and see what the rest of the year brings...

I agree Stricklin has made some tough decisions where it relates to coaches he did NOT hire. Guess we will see what he does when dealing with a coach directly tied to him.

[Dawg61]

I realize that. I'm speaking of message board posters. No one on the message boards thought we would fire Croom and we did.

I'm not ready to write Stricklin off b/c of one mistake. Byrne made mistakes too. Byrne is the one who killed the atmosphere in the Hump by moving the students away from mid court and also shouldn't have fired Hank Flick.

Strick hasn't made just one mistake with mbb. That's again why he should go too because he's choosing to make three mistakes in a row. That can not happen.

[Coach34]

no one thought we would fire Croom one year removed from being named the SEC coach of the year. .

That statement is not true at all. Byrne just wanted any kind of excuse. He asked for and got the go-ahead after the Ga Tech game provided Crooms didnt pull a miracle out of his ass the rest of the season

[Coach34]

I know decisions about futures aren't made mid-season and is way outside of Stricklin's normal MO. Common sense says that Strick is going to publicly support Rick Ray right up until the very day that he fires him...

The story I got was Ray inherited a cluster and was told to clean it up. He was guaranteed at least 4 years because of the state of the program with people leaving, drugs, lack of work ethic, etc....Year 1 was an absolute throw away and not even looked at as counting against him. So this is considered "year 2"

Now that tune may change when the heavy hitters storm Keenum's office- but that's the only way it's going to change. Strick aint firing him unless he Keenum demands it

[DawgFromOxford]

Strick hasn't made just one mistake with mbb. That's again why he should go too because he's choosing to make three mistakes in a row. That can not happen.

You are literally applying Stricklin's job to basketball only. Open your eyes and look at everything else he's done with athletics. Did he make a mistake with basketball? Yeah, but to call for his job because he messed up a hire in 1 of the 20 sports teams he's over is ridiculous.

[Coach34]

Strick aint losing his job- it wont even be considered

[maroonmania]

The story I got was Ray inherited a cluster and was told to clean it up. He was guaranteed at least 4 years because of the state of the program with people leaving, drugs, lack of work ethic, etc....Year 1 was an absolute throw away and not even looked at as counting against him. So this is considered "year 2"

Now that tune may change when the heavy hitters storm Keenum's office- but that's the only way it's going to change. Strick aint firing him unless he Keenum demands it

Well thankfully the cluster he inherited left him 4 of the most productive 5 players he has (Sword, Ware, Thomas, RJohnson) or no telling how sorry we would be. Hard to believe in Year 3 or "Year 2" there is only one Ray recruit contributing much of anything to this team and that's IJ Ready.

[M.Fillmore]

Omniscience is quite the gift, if you'd be willing to let the rest of us borrow some of it**

If you want to label stating the obvious as omniscience, have at it. BTW, I never said SS hasn't made hard decisions. Making hard decisions has zero to do with my post.

I did say I fear SS will be hardheaded and give Ray much extra time to justify this bad hire. Of course if you want to justify Rick Ray as a good hire you are welcome to do so.

[engie]

If you want to label stating the obvious as omniscience, have at it. BTW, I never said SS hasn't made hard decisions. Making hard decisions has zero to do with my post.

I did say I fear SS will be hardheaded and give Ray much extra time to justify this bad hire. Of course if you want to justify Rick Ray as a good hire you are welcome to do so.

You weren't stating the obvious. You were stating your opinion which presumes to know Stricklin's thought process. A process none of us actually know and most people willing to take an emotionally detached look at it would disagree with you on. Practically everyone was sure Stansbury was coming back -- and Strick would never have the nerve to do what needed to be done due to Bailey Howell's friendship with Stansbury. I remember that thought process like it was yesterday.

Strick has made one major mistake that's fully/directly attributable to him in his time as AD at MSU. He listens as well as anyone and comes off about as far from "hard headed" as anyone around. Jumbotron problems at football? Admitted, got ahead of, fixed. Same will be true for the traffic next year. He's always been willing to admit/fix mistakes as quickly as he can and is a very good listener. Always. Yet people think he's suddenly going to become this locked down, hard-headed AD because a basketball coach he hired isn't getting it done? You think Strick's more endeared to Rick Ray than his MSU legend father-in-law's great buddy? Stricklin was around when the Hump was rocking. Don't forget that. He knows what we can be in basketball. He knows what we expect to be. AND he knows what we've seen for the last 3 years, and really to some extent 6 or 7 years, isn't getting it done.

When it's time for Ray to go -- Strick will send him on his way IMO. Exactly like he has everyone else whose time came. It's unlikely that time will be this year, but that's not to say that it's off the table depending on how we close out. Another brutal February collapse, and his hand will be pressed...

[engie]

The story I got was Ray inherited a cluster and was told to clean it up. He was guaranteed at least 4 years because of the state of the program with people leaving, drugs, lack of work ethic, etc....Year 1 was an absolute throw away and not even looked at as counting against him. So this is considered "year 2"

Now that tune may change when the heavy hitters storm Keenum's office- but that's the only way it's going to change. Strick aint firing him unless he Keenum demands it
I can see him having the first year as a throw away given what he inherited and the injury situation. That seems natural. But I can't see any way we guaranteed 4 years. It would be stupid on so many levels, not the least of which invites procrastination and removes the urgency to win and win now. Now, we obviously guaranteed that we would pay him for 4 years given the initial contract -- so I can see where people are taking that and changing the application a little in order to push a "Stricklin is just like LT" agenda.

Year 1 throw away. Injuries and drugs.
Year 2 -- on Ray. Letting Lewis and Steele fester into this second year -- instead of sending them on their way and filling those scholarships is on him. Playing as shorthanded as we did is on him. You can excuse one or two individual cases. But when half the team is gone or ineligible in year 2 -- it's at his feet.
Year 3 -- beaten to death already.

We'll see what happens. No one is happy -- and it's even more disheartening when you start to show signs of being decent, start to buy in, and then have the rug pulled from under you in the most painful of ways. Last night was painful.

[Coach34]

Well thankfully the cluster he inherited left him 4 of the most productive 5 players he has (Sword, Ware, Thomas, RJohnson) or no telling how sorry we would be. Hard to believe in Year 3 or "Year 2" there is only one Ray recruit contributing much of anything to this team and that's IJ Ready.

Black is going to be solid. I like him. Houston too- but he is raw and needs work.

[YazooDawg23]

If we have to depend on Oliver Black and Demetrius Houston, once again, we are in serious trouble. They are nothing more than role players. Neither have offensive skills but are athletic.

[Political Hack]

Black is one of our most talented players right now.

[Coach34]

Last night was painful.

I totally agree. Last night was a chance to finish off Grant at Bama and show we really have started to climb some. Losing last night just basically ensured that we are still one of the 3 worst teams in the SEC. Wins over Bama and Mizzou would have gotten us to 6-6 and respectable. Showing signs of life and direction.

[Coach34]

If we have to depend on Oliver Black and Demetrius Houston, once again, we are in serious trouble. They are nothing more than role players. Neither have offensive skills but are athletic.

Black is a solid SEC player and will be a 10 and 7 guy his last 2 years

[YazooDawg23]

I guess I have been spoiled with State big men over the past decade. We transitioned from Mario Austin to Lawrence Roberts to Charles Rhodes to Jarvis to Moultrie. I have high standards I guess.

[engie]

I'd like to see us recruit true centers -- and transition Black into Roquez's role in the 4. He'd excel more in that role IMO. Has shown glimpses of ability to shoot it...

Of the guys listed, only Lawrence Roberts was elite as a true freshman. And he was at Baylor at the time. The rest of them matured into tremendous players and showed promise early on certainly...

[mic]

I guess I have been spoiled with State big men over the past decade. We transitioned from Mario Austin to Lawrence Roberts to Charles Rhodes to Jarvis to Moultrie. I have high standards I guess.

2 of those 4 were transfers.. That's what we have to get next year, a transfer or 2. They don't even have to be eligible next year although would be nice to get a graduate from a mid major or somewhere with some skills that wants to play one year in the SEC . Just look at Mason at Auburn. Transfered from Nigera. And is a huge contributor for them..
Look at Kennedy.. I think they have 4 transfers that all contribute for them this year.

[maroonmania]

I'd like to see us recruit true centers -- and transition Black into Roquez's role in the 4. He'd excel more in that role IMO. Has shown glimpses of ability to shoot it...

Of the guys listed, only Lawrence Roberts was elite as a true freshman. And he was at Baylor at the time. The rest of them matured into tremendous players and showed promise early on certainly...

Well we got a 6'10 Ndoye for that role, he's just not able to contribute much for now. Of course probably not many 6'10-7' guys that can play immediatedly that will accept our current level of "scholarship offer".

[Dawg61]

You are literally applying Stricklin's job to basketball only. Open your eyes and look at everything else he's done with athletics. Did he make a mistake with basketball? Yeah, but to call for his job because he messed up a hire in 1 of the 20 sports teams he's over is ridiculous.

You're gawd damn right I am. You would too if it was baseball or football that SS took three gigantic shits on in a row. Basketball must be treated like a co-#1 to be successful.

[Dawg61]

2 of those 4 were transfers.. That's what we have to get next year, a transfer or 2. They don't even have to be eligible next year although would be nice to get a graduate from a mid major or somewhere with some skills that wants to play one year in the SEC . Just look at Mason at Auburn. Transfered from Nigera. And is a huge contributor for them..
Look at Kennedy.. I think they have 4 transfers that all contribute for them this year.

Ray doesn't believe in signing transfers. Must be the case since he's missed out on over 1,800 of them. It's one of those castration rules that Ray put on his team that SS got full wood over and hired him. "No AAU, No transfers". We are the suck and we will suck the most honorable way. Our suck is above signing sleezy transfers. We'd rather suck.

[Aces High]

Yall put me on record. He gets another year. From a source that signs rr's contracts.

Im not saying it is right. Again, we could lose 10 in a row and that change but this has been the stance the past 3 yeArs and was still the stance up to two weeks ago. Im not asking every 3 days for message board heroes.

Take it or leave it.

[Coach34]

Yall put me on record. He gets another year. From a source that signs rr's contracts.

Im not saying it is right. Again, we could lose 10 in a row and that change but this has been the stance the past 3 yeArs and was still the stance up to two weeks ago. Im not asking every 3 days for message board heroes.

Take it or leave it.

This man knows of which he speaks

[M.Fillmore]

When it's time for Ray to go -- Strick will send him on his way IMO.

It reads like you are claiming omniscience.

[tcdog70]

If he left tomorrow it would be too late. If he was gone it would take the next coach 24 hr to teach us to inbound the basketball.

[bluelightstar]

Giving him the 4th year is pure lunacy but it seems that's what's going to happen. This is just like Muschamp at Florida -- it was obvious after Year 3 that he needed to go, but Foley was so tied up in his "brilliant" hire to admit it. Had to wait for the Year 4 tanking.

[engie]

It reads like you are claiming omniscience.

I guess you need an explanation of what IMO stands for. And where I claimed to be inside his head as you did.

Feel free to list examples of why you think Ray has a lifetime contract with Stricklin -- since I already listed a bunch of far more "MSU" people that he's sent packing, many of which actually had success in their past.

[HailState39110]

This story is very easy to predict:

- we finish with 2 more conference wins (6-12) and we bring Ray back for year 4 dividing the fanbase on this decision
- we do not sign Malik. he goes to Kentucky and has LSU as a back up plan if a couple of the UK guys decide to return
- Roq Johnson and Bloodman leave.
- Ray returns 4 Senior starters and Ready for 2015-2106 campaign
- Strugg, Tookie, and Weatherspoon join the team
-we win around 20 games and lose 1st round in the NIT
- the administration, athletic department, and Ray supporters go all out that Ray is the guy and he has turned the corner
- Thomas, Ware, Sword, and Daniels exhausted their eligibility
- Ray comes back for 2016-2017 campaign
- we finish 13-18 (5-13) with a couple of bad non conference losses and similar games where just just do not show up offensively
- this time around Stricklin's hand is forced and the ones who were never in the Ray camp to begin with get the last laugh as Ray is relieved of his duties

[M.Fillmore]

You weren't stating the obvious. You were stating your opinion

Be still my soul, its a messageboard.


You were stating your opinion which presumes to know Stricklin's thought process. A process none of us actually know..... I remember that thought process like it was yesterday.

So you know Stricklin's thought process but everyone else has an opinion.

But yesterday you said MSU doesn't lose recruits near Starkville, even though we've some good recruits from Noxubee. We all know that Noxubee is waaaay away from Starkville. So far away that Starkville High had an arrangement with Noxubee to play their home games at Noxubee if their messed up field wasn't ready in time for this past season.

I'm hoping that by my pointing out how goofy some of your statements are that I can earn my way onto the glorious "blocked" list that you tout from time to time.