Today's scrimmage, baseball

[MsStateBaseball]

Judging by the lineups (fall too) the first five will be:
Jacob Robson or Michael Smith CF or RF
John Holland
Gavin Collins
Reid Humphreys
Wes Rea

Pretty good batting lineup. Robson and Smith may be in OF at same time.

[Smitty]

Rea has no business 5th

[Jacksondevildog]

Saw where Robson ran a 3.65 to first on a bunt. That's unbelievable speed.

[engie]

Rea has no business 5th

Why?

[Todd4State]

Saw where Robson ran a 3.65 to first on a bunt. That's unbelievable speed.

And he's a LH hitter too.

[Todd4State]

If you're right, that means that Heck and Britton will be in the bottom half of the lineup, and that's a good thing because both are solid.

[engie]

Best 2-3-4-5 punch we've had under Cohen IMO...

[Smitty]

Why?

Because we need someone to put the ball in play hitting 5th. Reynolds, Heck, Britton... Rea should hit 8th.

[engie]

Because we need someone to put the ball in play hitting 5th. Reynolds, Heck, Britton... Rea should hit 8th.

Disagree strongly on that. You don't drop the best longball threat in the Cal Ripken League to 8th in any lineup in the country. And 5th is sabermetrically speaking one of the highest K positions in the lineup. Because it's a power production spot.

[Drugdog]

Because we need someone to put the ball in play hitting 5th. Reynolds, Heck, Britton... Rea should hit 8th.

It always funny to me that someone who has not been to a practice knowing who should play or not.
I am putting my faith in Cohen.

[Smitty]

It always funny to me that someone who has not been to a practice knowing who should play or not.
I am putting my faith in Cohen.

I was at today's practice. Rea hit 8th on his split squad. First AB was a K on an obvious curveball in the dirt after letting a fastball on the outside corner go by.

Thanks for playing.

[Todd4State]

Because we need someone to put the ball in play hitting 5th. Reynolds, Heck, Britton... Rea should hit 8th.

No, you put him in a spot in the lineup where he is going to see more fastballs than breaking balls. It's not a coincidence that the best season Rea has had at MSU thus far was when we had Renfroe and Pirtle in the lineup at the same time.

[Smitty]

Disagree strongly on that. You don't drop the best longball threat in the Cal Ripken League to 8th in any lineup in the country...

I think with the new balls strike outs are now worse than ever. Ball in play outs will now be hits because of the jump off the bat. K's aren't good but are worse now.

Reynolds, Britton, Cody Brown, Heck all are better options. Especially against SEC pitching that will KNOW how to get Rea out.

[Smitty]

Rea hit bottom of the order last year while PLATOONING. He's not going to jump to a 5 hole solid bat especially with more talent in the lineup. Yall are wishful thinkers but let's be real.

[engie]

I think with the new balls strike outs are now worse than ever. Ball in play outs will now be hits because of the jump off the bat. K's aren't good but are worse now.

Reynolds, Britton, Cody Brown, Heck all are better options. Especially against SEC pitching that will KNOW how to get Rea out.

The jump off the bat is unchanged with the new baseballs. It's drag coefficient over distance that helps them. And it isn't going to change K rates significantly. Lineups are a tedious and stupid argument.

[MsStateBaseball]

If he struggles initially then switch Rea and Heck. I got Heck 6th. If Swinarski keeps hitting he needs to bat DH some. Really no set lineup besides the big ones, Collins, Hump, Holland, Heck.

[MsStateBaseball]

Michael Smith has two hits today. He must play every game too. Somewhere with his speed. He is a damn good pickup. He will be the CF or RF every game.

[Smitty]

The jump off the bat is unchanged with the new baseballs. It's drag coefficient over distance that helps them. And it isn't going to change K rates significantly. Lineups are a tedious and stupid argument.

K rates will drop because of less movement on pitches. I think it will drop a ton for good hitters but Rea's a different animal. He's a K ninja. He will still struggle inside and chase em in the dirt. Again, platoon 8 hole guy in a weaker lineup just eight months ago.

We can't have that right behind Holland, Collins, etc. Might be okay against weak non-con teams but when we see real pitching we need solid sticks.

[engie]

Rea hit bottom of the order last year while PLATOONING. He's not going to jump to a 5 hole solid bat especially with more talent in the lineup. Yall are wishful thinkers but let's be real.

You aren't even making sense. Rea struggled late last year and dropped in the lineup. That was NOT where Cohen wanted to hit him -- nor where he's expected to be going forward. Rea still hit in the 3 hole more often than every other spot in the lineup combined. Starts by lineup spot:
32 3
4 4
5 5
4 7
9 8
9 no start

[engie]

K rates will drop because of less movement on pitches.
There's not going to be less movement on pitches. It was already clear you didn't understand the deal with the new baseball -- please research before continuing to argue this point.


I think it will drop a ton for good hitters but Rea's a different animal. He's a K ninja. He will still struggle inside and chase em in the dirt. Again, platoon 8 hole guy in a weaker lineup just eight months ago.
Again wrong on him being a platoon 8 last year. 32 starts from the 3-hole. He slumped -- he got dropped and eventually sat a good bit. One small snapshot during a slump doesn't even begin to tell the whole story on a career 3 or 4 hole hitter.


We can't have that right behind Holland, Collins, etc. Might be okay against weak non-con teams but when we see real pitching we need solid sticks.
Best power hitter in his league this summer. He k'd very rarely over the last half of the summer. He's a tailor-made 5 hole hitter IMO

If he struggles like he did for part of last year -- his ass will be on the bench behind Rooker.

[Smitty]

You aren't even making sense. Rea struggled late last year and dropped in the lineup. That was NOT where Cohen wanted to hit him -- nor where he's expected to be going forward. Rea still hit in the 3 hole more often than every other spot in the lineup combined. Starts by lineup spot:
32 3
4 4
5 5
4 7
9 8
9 no start

I drafted Chris Davis 10th last season in fantasy baseball and wanted him to hit 50 HR. Just cause Cohen "wanted" him to his high doesn't mean anything. So what if he started the year hitting 3rd... Look at the results. Look how it ENDED

[engie]

I drafted Chris Davis 10th last season in fantasy baseball and wanted him to hit 50 HR. Just cause Cohen "wanted" him to his high doesn't mean anything. So what if he started the year hitting 3rd... Look at the results. Look how it ENDED

I'm sure Cohen hit Renfroe 8th some as a soph -- he was obviously destined to always be an 8 hole hitter** Struck out too much**

[Saltydog]

nt

[MsStateBaseball]

One of strengths of this years club that I alluded to is the quality of hitters coming off the bench. Smith, Reynolds, Swinarski, Rooker all new players that are capable hitters. Cohen will have to find out good matchups to put the lineup in.

If Rea has a bad offensive year I am confident that we will pick up the slack from other guys. This team overall is better at hitting than last years.

[MsStateBaseball]

nt

I can see Smith in right and Robson in center. Smith has a great arm.

[Smitty]

I'm sure Cohen hit Renfroe 8th some as a soph -- he was obviously destined to always be an 8 hole hitter** Struck out too much**

You aren't being very logical here, and the smugness about the "obviousness" of Rea being the solid 5-hole hitter is funny. Engine rides again.

[Saltydog]

nt

[cbrunt29]

Delete

[Coach34]

Because we need someone to put the ball in play hitting 5th. Reynolds, Heck, Britton... Rea should hit 8th.

Hayyyyyyle no. If your 1st baseman needs to bat 8th- you need a new 1st baseman. I love Rea batting 5th. That's your RBI slot

[MsStateBaseball]

Well Vickerson and Brown both bat left so matchups favor them against rightys. We could have an all left hitting OF or vice versa. Hump will be LF or DH every game. Watch how Smith bats against RHP.

[MsStateBaseball]

Hayyyyyyle no. If your 1st baseman needs to bat 8th- you need a new 1st baseman. I love Rea batting 5th. That's your RBI slot

Let's hope most of the time after Collins and Hump bat, no one is on first that much. Hence they double or HR.

[Drugdog]

I was at today's practice. Rea hit 8th on his split squad. First AB was a K on an obvious curveball in the dirt after letting a fastball on the outside corner go by.

Thanks for playing.

So a guy that plays Fantasy Baseball and was at 1 scrimmage knows more than Cohen. Got it.

[Bully13]

Hayyyyyyle no. If your 1st baseman needs to bat 8th- you need a new 1st baseman. I love Rea batting 5th. That's your RBI slot

agreed. It's been frustrating seeing so little production from our infield corners. posta get hits and hr's out of those spots.

[Smitty]

Hayyyyyyle no. If your 1st baseman needs to bat 8th- you need a new 1st baseman. I love Rea batting 5th. That's your RBI slot

Tough to get an RBI walking back to the dugout. If he can put the ball in play enough and get some power results he'll be okay there.. But looking at last year I don't see it, especially with the other offensive options we have. Gotta put folks in the lineup that can hit GOOD PITCHING.

Rea was .207, .279 slugging with just FOUR extra base hits in conference play last year.

Players that out-slugged Rea in SEC play last year - Britton, Cody Brown, Seth Heck.... but I'm the dumbass**

[engie]

You aren't being very logical here, and the smugness about the "obviousness" of Rea being the solid 5-hole hitter is funny. Engine rides again.

I'm not "logical" to the guy that completely misrepresented the reality of new baseballs twice, the makeup of our lineup once, while arguing for putting a "contact" hitter in the 5 hole? Mike Trout needs to hit in the 8-hole. Strikes out too much.**

[engie]

Tough to get an RBI walking back to the dugout. If he can put the ball in play enough and get some power results he'll be okay there.. But looking at last year I don't see it, especially with the other offensive options we have. Gotta put folks in the lineup that can hit GOOD PITCHING.

Rea was .207, .279 slugging with just FOUR extra base hits in conference play last year.

Players that out-slugged Rea in SEC play last year - Britton, Cody Brown, Seth Heck.... but I'm the dumbass**

Players never improve from year to year. If only we had cut Renfroe loose sooner**

Go ahead and review your numbers for his soph year while you are at it and get back to me.

If all that matters to you is the most recent sample -- how are you ignoring what he did in the Cal Ripken League?

[MsStateBaseball]

This is a new year. New players, new attitude. Rea will get it done somehow. He will have ups and downs. Other guys will pick him up. We are a better team this year. Trust me on this.

[Smitty]

I'm not "logical" to the guy that completely misrepresented the reality of new baseballs twice, the makeup of our lineup once, while arguing for putting a "contact" hitter in the 5 hole?

Rea wasn't a power hitter last year. The new ball is more difficult on pitchers, I've heard our coaches say that 3-ball counts are up 25-30% so far with it.

You are putting words in my mouth (a staple of yours I've noticed). I don't want a "contact" hitter (Jake Vickerson) there. I want someone that will be more productive than Wes Rea.

[engie]

Rea wasn't a power hitter last year. The new ball is more difficult on pitchers, I've heard our coaches say that 3-ball counts are up 25-30% so far with it.
This being your third entirely different argument about the new baseballs. How is this new baseball "more difficult on pitchers"? OUR 3 ball counts are up for us because our pitching staff is currently a young work in progress. It doesn't have a thing to do with the balls themselves.

You're arguing both sides on this as well. "Well, they won't get any movement anymore." "Well, they can't throw strikes." So, which is it? And this has what, exactly, to do with Wes Rea's hitting? "Rea wasn't a power hitter last year" -- he was the best power hitter in the Cal Ripken LEAGUE THIS SUMMER. You are being very selective in your data choices.


You are putting words in my mouth (a staple of yours I've noticed). I don't want a "contact" hitter (Jake Vickerson) there. I want someone that will be more productive than Wes Rea.
You said "Because we need someone to put the ball in play hitting 5th." This = contact hitter. That's not me putting words in your mouth -- that's what YOU SAID. If it isn't what you meant, you should have clarified.

Since Rea can't hit good pitching, I'm still waiting on you to explain how, on the best modern-era MSU baseball team, Rea was our #1 RBI guy, #2 Slugging guy, #2 homer guy, #2 doubles guy, and #2 total bases guy in conference play? How did he dominate the CWS? I thought he couldn't hit decent pitching?

You are basing your entire position out of a half season slump Rea got into late last year.

[Coach34]

Tough to get an RBI walking back to the dugout. If he can put the ball in play enough and get some power results he'll be okay there.. But looking at last year I don't see it, especially with the other offensive options we have. Gotta put folks in the lineup that can hit GOOD PITCHING.

Rea was .207, .279 slugging with just FOUR extra base hits in conference play last year.

Players that out-slugged Rea in SEC play last year - Britton, Cody Brown, Seth Heck.... but I'm the dumbass**

if he doesnt produce- his ass will get pulled. He produced pretty damn well 2 years ago. He outhit Renfroe the 2nd half of 2013. We'll see what happens. If he struggles and cant handle it- remind us of this post. You cant bat Rea 8th- if he needs to bat 8th, you're better off playing a younger player there and batting him 8th

[engie]

I'm letting it go. Should have never engaged in this argument in the first place and derailed a potentially really good baseball thread. We'll see where Cohen has Rea in 3 weeks...

[Smitty]

I'm letting it go. Should have never engaged in this argument in the first place and derailed a potentially really good baseball thread. We'll see where Cohen has Rea in 3 weeks...

We'll look again when April comes around.

[Drugdog]

I can already tell the Smitty is going to the annoying one this year.

[Smitty]

I can already tell the Smitty is going to the annoying one this year.

Sorry I don't see Rea hitting .290/.450. Yall are underestimating the other quality players we have and overestimating Rea.

But I guess I got it now, disagree with Engie, defend your point = "annoying".

[MsStateBaseball]

Rea will work on his hitting like never before. He is a senior and wants to go out a champion. He will slump like all do but he and we hope he rises to important occasions (at bats) and does his job.

[Smitty]

You cant bat Rea 8th- if he needs to bat 8th, you're better off playing a younger player there and batting him 8th

8 would be a good spot for a .220 strikeout guy with HR potential. He could be more productive there than a punch/judy if he runs into a few HR's.

[engie]

Sorry I don't see Rea hitting .290/.450. Yall are underestimating the other quality players we have and overestimating Rea.

But I guess I got it now, disagree with Engie, defend your point = "annoying".

No one is "taking up for Engie", everyone just disagrees with you on this.

.450 slg would be the 4th best @ MSU in the BBCOR era and would have led our team in both 2012 and 2014. And is behind his own output in 2013. You are still bouncing from one extreme to another.

[Jacksondevildog]

This is a new year. New players, new attitude. Rea will get it done somehow. He will have ups and downs. Other guys will pick him up. We are a better team this year. Trust me on this.


Our pitching will have to step it up big time.

[Drugdog]

Sorry I don't see Rea hitting .290/.450. Yall are underestimating the other quality players we have and overestimating Rea.

But I guess I got it now, disagree with Engie, defend your point = "annoying".

Not really. Just a " know it all " is annoying.
By the way you have gotten hammered today.

[Smitty]

By the way you have gotten hammered today.

Lol ok

[Todd4State]

Let's at least give Rea a chance before banishing him to the 8 hole.

I'll say this about Rea- when he does get a hit it seems like it tends to be in a clutch situation.

[Smitty]

Let's at least give Rea a chance before banishing him to the 8 hole.

There's the disconnect. We are a big-time program. The 8 hole IS NOT a banishment. Our bench is made up of players that would start on other SEC teams. I'm saying what we saw last year from Rea is not going to be close to hold a 5 hole slot with the other productive bats we have.

[RiverCityDawg]

I'm saying what we saw last year from Rea is not going to be close to hold a 5 hole slot with the other productive bats we have.

No one can argue with this.

I'm hopeful he puts it all together for his senior year because our best team will have his glove at first and him at the plate cranking RBIs in clutch situations, laying off curve balls in the dirt and going oppo with two strikes... Things we've seen him do in spurts but not over the course of a whole season.

[messageboardsuperhero]

To me, discussing batting order is kind of pointless. Rea will start the season in the middle of the order- if he hits he'll stay there, if not he'll move down or get benched just like last year. It's that simple.

Micheal Smith is a guy who I've been told was going to be good (particularly defensively) by a friend connected with his JC league. I know Vandy wanted him, and he can run down fly balls with the best of them. That said, let's not go crazy and annoint the guy a full time starter because he had a good scrimmage. In a perfect world, Smith and Robson would do a lefty/righty platoon in CF with the other guy being our #1 pinch runner off the bench.

[msstate7]

No one can argue with this.

I'm hopeful he puts it all together for his senior year because our best team will have his glove at third and him at the plate cranking RBIs in clutch situations, laying off curve balls in the dirt and going oppo with two strikes... Things we've seen him do in spurts but not over the course of a whole season.

Not so sure i like rea's range playing 3rd haha

[BiscuitEater]

I think it will drop a ton for good hitters but Rea's a different animal. He's a K ninja.

Did strike out 48 times and he did struggle at the end of '14 BUT he 'busted' out in summer ball. In '13, he was #2 behind Renfro in HR and had a .459 slugging %, again #3 on the team behind Renfro and barely trailed Fraiser.

Bottom Line ... it REALLY matters 'who' bats behind Rae.

[Smitty]

Did strike out 48 times and he did struggle at the end of '14 BUT he 'busted' out in summer ball. In '13, he was #2 behind Renfro in HR and had a .459 slugging %, again #3 on the team behind Renfro and barely trailed Fraiser.

Bottom Line ... it REALLY matters 'who' bats behind Rae.

Rea had better protection last year than 2013.

2013- Renfroe hit 3rd, Rea hit 5th, CT hit 6th.... CT was a .281/.358/.308 hitter "protecting" Rea.

2014- Rea hit 3rd, Pirtle hit 4th.... Pirtle was a .363/.437/.438 hitter "protecting" Rea.

[Coach34]

**** me. Smitty = Will James

[Noxdog]

Will has many personas

QUOTE=Coach34;323675]**** me. Smitty = Will James[/QUOTE]

[CadaverDawg]

**** me. Smitty = Will James

Haha, I just realized it too when he changed his avi. Hilarious

It's that time of year again!

[MsStateBaseball]

Another interesting note: players sure talk about how great the chemistry of the team is. No bad attitudes (like some on here). I just have this feeling we are in for a great year.

Messageboardsuperhero---I have changed my mind, Smith plays all the time no platooning w him. He hit well the end of fall. He has adjusted to D1 ball. He is legit.

[Todd4State]

Rea had better protection last year than 2013.

2013- Renfroe hit 3rd, Rea hit 5th, CT hit 6th.... CT was a .281/.358/.308 hitter "protecting" Rea.

2014- Rea hit 3rd, Pirtle hit 4th.... Pirtle was a .363/.437/.438 hitter "protecting" Rea.

Protection also comes from the guys in front of the hitter as well. When there are runners on base it changes how a pitcher throws to a hitter as well. In 2013, you not only had Renfroe on base a lot- you had Frazier and Detz on base a lot as well.

Apologies to everyone for ending three sentences in a row with as well.

[Todd4State]

Haha, I just realized it too when he changed his avi. Hilarious

It's that time of year again!

I kind of suspected it when he came out and said Rea should hit eighth.

[Todd4State]

Another interesting note: players sure talk about how great the chemistry of the team is. No bad attitudes (like some on here). I just have this feeling we are in for a great year.

Messageboardsuperhero---I have changed my mind, Smith plays all the time no platooning w him. He hit well the end of fall. He has adjusted to D1 ball. He is legit.

I thought Smith and Robson both had really good days today. That bodes very well for us. I want to see if Smith can continue to have days like today though before I anoint him- but he's headed in that direction.

I also liked seeing Laster start today as well.

[AlSwearengen]

I hate to take away from the Wes Rea debate, but can someone give a rundown of who did what and played what positions and who did what on the mound?

[Smitty]

I hate to take away from the Wes Rea debate, but can someone give a rundown of who did what and played what positions and who did what on the mound?

Before making my way to the Hump I remember Preston really hitting his spots well.
Seth Heck should have gotten to a Reynolds hard grounder but didn't. The Holland/Heck 2B/SS debate continues there.
Collins had a nice rip to left.
Of course, Smith's triple. Kid is good, called that in the fall.
Robson was very fast getting down the line and stealing 2nd.
Walker dropped a easy foul ball at catcher.

[Todd4State]

I hate to take away from the Wes Rea debate, but can someone give a rundown of who did what and played what positions and who did what on the mound?

Brown, Laster, Dakota Hudson, and Ross pitched. Combined, they allowed three runs- two of which were manufactured. Hudson gave up a run, but his velocity was good and his command was good as well.

Michael Smith was the hitting star- I don't think he was retired other than being picked off. He had a couple of extra base hits including a triple.

Robson had a bunt single and ran an alleged 3.6 to first base on said bunt. This per 247.

Gavin Collins drove in a run and it's sounds like he looked good. Josh Lovelady caught for the other team.

Holland had some good at bats and played second.

Rea played first and didn't do much at the plate.

Britton had a single- which was good since he is coming off of an injury.

Heck played SS and did OK. He had trouble getting to a ball- which is why I think he should play 2B, but I digress.

This is what I have kind of gleaned so far.

[AlSwearengen]

Thanks. Good to hear Hudson looked pretty good. Hopefully he has some movement on that fastball.

[MsStateBaseball]

See my blog post from an hour ago too.

Next weekend does not look good for games. Very cold w snow possible

[MsStateBaseball]

You know what? The Rea debate may not happen. The other team will be so concerned with getting Holland, Collins and Hump out, they might forget Rea. Those three I think will generate more worry in the opposing pitcher once the season starts and these guys start mashing it.

Smith with his speed leading off.
Holland with his great patience and eye.
Collins natural hitting ability.
Hump has line drive power.

[Smitty]

You know what? The Rea debate may not happen. The other team will be so concerned with getting Holland, Collins and Hump out, they might forget Rea. Those three I think will generate more worry in the opposing pitcher once the season starts and these guys start mashing it.

Smith with his speed leading off.
Holland with his great patience and eye.
Collins natural hitting ability.
Hump has line drive power.

Reynolds 5 for a LH bat to break it up, assuming he's what he's made out to be.
Heck 6th as a .300 hitter last year.
Britton 7th as a LH bat.
HEY Rea 8th here.. Like somebody said.. To HR or K. Great spot for him.
Robson/Brown 9th as the final LH bat.

R-L-R-R-L-R-L-R-L lineup.

[CadaverDawg]

I am very anxious to see how we pitch it this season, because our offense could be pretty damn good. I am seeing a lot of lineups being tossed around, and a few key players from last year aren't even being mentioned. If we have guys like Cody Brown and Vickerson being left out of lineups, we are going to be hell on offense. I just don't see how Brown isn't starting day 1. High energy and has pop.

I'm kinda hoping for some mixture of the following guys....

RF Smith
2B Holland
C Collins
DH Hump
1B Rea
LF Brown
SS Heck
3B Britton
CF Robson

If we have Vick and Reynolds coming in to pinch hit, we're in good shape.

[I seen it dawg]

**** me. Smitty = Will James

Nah. Smitty is still here. Will James? Dunzo