One reason people aren't coming to watch our basketball team play

[SouthMsDawg]

We pride ourself in strong defense and are holding opponents to very low point totals, but we are scoring less than we are allowing.

This is D1 SEC college basketball. Fans don't want to watch games that are 57-54 type of games. Most high school teams score more than that in 8 minutes less time.

Ray's offensive/defensive philosophy may eventually hurt him more than anything and ultimately cost him his job.

Our next coach has to be someone who believes in a high tempo offense that has lots of offense similar.

Just my 2cents on basketball for the day.

[maroonmania]

We pride ourself in strong defense and are holding opponents to very low point totals, but we are scoring less than we are allowing.

This is D1 SEC college basketball. Fans don't want to watch games that are 57-54 type of games. Most high school teams score more than that in 8 minutes less time.

Ray's offensive/defensive philosophy may eventually hurt him more than anything and ultimately cost him his job.

Our next coach has to be someone who believes in a high tempo offense that has lots of offense similar.

Just my 2cents on basketball for the day.

Yep, sort of reminds you statistically of another coach we let go in another sport. You know the one that NEVER cracked the Top 100 in the NCAA total offense statistic for the entire 5 year stretch he was here. His offenses were as exciting as watching paint dry. The offensive prowess of this basketball team is eerily similar.

[SouthMsDawg]

Yep, sort of reminds you statistically of another coach we let go in another sport. You know the one that NEVER cracked the Top 100 in the NCAA total offense statistic for the entire 5 year stretch he was here. His offenses were as exciting as watching paint dry. The offensive prowess of this basketball team is eerily similar.

Can't agree more with you.

Its amazing what a change in the offensive philosophy can do for a team. I remember people saying that Mississippi State could never have a high powered offense in football. Dan Mullen showed us that its possible. I hope Scott mans up and looks for a coach who is offensive minded when looking to hire our next head coach.

[thf24]

I don't think Ray is trying for low-scoring games. I think it's more that his offense is terrible and his players barely know how to run it.

[starkvegasdawg]

People mainly don't go because the team just flat sucks. I think if we were winning people would still go because people love to support a winner. But people aren't going to support a team that looks like a bunch of 7 year olds playing in their parents' driveway on a goal from Wal-Mart.

[HancockCountyDog]

We pride ourself in strong defense and are holding opponents to very low point totals, but we are scoring less than we are allowing.

This is D1 SEC college basketball. Fans don't want to watch games that are 57-54 type of games. Most high school teams score more than that in 8 minutes less time.

Ray's offensive/defensive philosophy may eventually hurt him more than anything and ultimately cost him his job.

Our next coach has to be someone who believes in a high tempo offense that has lots of offense similar.

Just my 2cents on basketball for the day.

If we were 15-1 and were holding teams to 50 ppg while averaging 55 ppg, the Hump would be packed to the rafters. This is just silly.

[drunkernhelldawg]

We pride ourself in strong defense and are holding opponents to very low point totals, but we are scoring less than we are allowing.

This is D1 SEC college basketball. Fans don't want to watch games that are 57-54 type of games. Most high school teams score more than that in 8 minutes less time.

Ray's offensive/defensive philosophy may eventually hurt him more than anything and ultimately cost him his job.

Our next coach has to be someone who believes in a high tempo offense that has lots of offense similar.

Just my 2cents on basketball for the day.

Disagree. Just got to win.

[SouthMsDawg]

Hopefully Scott sees that WE the MSU alums/fans/ and ticket holders aren't happy with the current coach.

Auburn hires Bruce Pearl and they are selling out non conference games. Amazing what the right type of hire will do

[MetEdDawg]

My problem is that there doesn't seem to be much actual basketball on the offensive side. We set weak screens, we don't pick and roll very well, and rarely do we get any easy baskets. We are awful at breaking and penetrating zones and we don't ever put pressure on a defense to come guard us because we aren't good at shooting the basketball.

There are a lot of factors at play, but most are on the offensive side. I don't necessarily agree we need an up tempo offense, but I do believe we need better coaching on that side of the ball because it's pretty clear that's where we are weakest across the board.

[RBritt]

I was spoiled my years at state 01-04. The 03-04 team was nasty. Lucky ass Xavier could have beaten the 92 dream team that day.

[maroonmania]

If we were 15-1 and were holding teams to 50 ppg while averaging 55 ppg, the Hump would be packed to the rafters. This is just silly.

Its not silly. Mullen was not winning his first year (5-7) BUT the team was exciting to watch and the offense was fun. Obviously, if you are winning big fans will come no matter how you are doing it, that is not even in question. But there is no doubt a team can be entertaining even being mediocre or losing if they play an exciting style. Back in the day Loyola-Marymount never really had great teams but they were lots of fun to watch.

[engie]

I don't think I ever had illusions of this being a great offensive set team -- but I really did think we were going to go 40 minutes of hell on defense and score a ton in transition. In other words -- an exciting brand of basketball...

[Tbonewannabe]

Bring on the Florida Gulf Coast High Flying Slamma Jamma.

[engie]

Bring on the Florida Gulf Coast High Flying Slamma Jamma.

At USC now...

[maroonmania]

I don't think I ever had illusions of this being a great offensive set team -- but I really did think we were going to go 40 minutes of hell on defense and score a ton in transition. In other words -- an exciting brand of basketball...

I certainly wasn't expecting a high-flying offense by any means but I don't remember with Ray's first 2 teams feeling like we should be in celebration mode every time we broke 50 points.

[SouthMsDawg]

We have barely broken 20 points for the first half multiple times. Girls HS basketball teams are able to do that.

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

Does Wisconsin have attendance problems? They are boring as hell to watch but they win.

[maroonmania]

Does Wisconsin have attendance problems? They are boring as hell to watch but they win.

Have you even read the thread? Think we are in 100% agreement that if you win it doesn't really matter what style you play, people will come. We don't win so it does matter if you want people to take the effort to show up.

[SouthMsDawg]

Losing 85-82 is a lot more entertaining than a 55-52 game is all I am saying. Id rather watch an up and down game with transition, three pointers and Dunks than a game in which we only make 15 total field goals.

[MadDawg]

I don't think I ever had illusions of this being a great offensive set team -- but I really did think we were going to go 40 minutes of hell on defense and score a ton in transition. In other words -- an exciting brand of basketball...

I wasn't sure what we would get either, but after the last 10 years of hearing how anybody could coach an offense better than Stansbury, I was expecting much better.

[maroonmania]

Losing 85-82 is a lot more entertaining than a 55-52 game is all I am saying. Id rather watch an up and down game with transition, three pointers and Dunks than a game in which we only make 15 total field goals.

I agree, not a difficult concept to grasp: For the average fan's entertainment value ----> Winning 85-82 > Winning 55-52 > Losing 85-82 > Losing 55-52

[HailState39110]

I wasn't sure what we would get either, but after the last 10 years of hearing how anybody could coach an offense better than Stansbury, I was expecting much better.

Stansbury ALWAYS had guys who could shoot. He depended too much on the 3 pointer late in his coaching stint at MSU but was good about recruiting shooters and teaching them how to play defense . Barry Stewart, The Delk twins, Ravern Johnson, Timmy Bowers, Shane Power, Winsome Frazier, Jaleb Steele, etc could all light it up. We have no one who can score like that now

[Maroonthirteen]

My .02 on small crowds........

1. Losing
2. GTR isn't a basketball area. Football and baseball are far more popular.
3. Starkville is 2 hours from any city.

[quickstrike2]

Ray is not focusing on having a good defensive basketball team. It just so happens that our defense looks halfway decent at times, but not decent enough to beat the likes to USC Upstate and Mcneese State. Almost the first thing Ray said in his introductory press conference was that he wanted an exciting brand of offense that pushed people and put them on their heels. He was focused on scoring points, and now that we can't its all about defense. It is basically like Croom riding his way to a Liberty Bowl from his defense being good and his offense being terrible, while he was suppose to be an offensive mind.

[notoriousdog]

Some friends and I were having this discussion the other day. We are historically bad at basketball on offense as far as SEC teams go. Looking at KenPom offensive efficiency numbers going back to 2002, we have had the following:

-The worst ranking for an SEC team at 326 (2012-13)
-A top 5 worst SEC year-end ranking at 260 (2013-14)
-This year we sit ranked at 292. Last in the SEC.

SEC teams have finished in the 300s only twice from 2002-2014. LSU in 2011 and us in 2013. UGA was close in 2005, finishing at 299.
This team could be the third team to accomplish the feat.

[Jack Lambert]

People mainly don't go because the team just flat sucks. I think if we were winning people would still go because people love to support a winner. But people aren't going to support a team that looks like a bunch of 7 year olds playing in their parents' driveway on a goal from Wal-Mart.

100% agree. We suck and that's the bottom line why no one is coming to the games.

[Johnson85]

I don't think I ever had illusions of this being a great offensive set team -- but I really did think we were going to go 40 minutes of hell on defense and score a ton in transition. In other words -- an exciting brand of basketball...

^^^THIS^^^ Usually a good defense leads to a decent offense if you just look at scoring numbers. We obviously don't create a lot of transition baskets with our Defense, unless our half court offense is historically awful.

[Dawg61]

We scored 48 points at home vs Tennessee and that's with attempting 44 free throws.

[thunderclap]

I can think of about 10 other reasons nobody comes to the games and they all begin with "We suck at ..."

[drunkernhelldawg]

I think an emphasis on defense gives you a better chance to win. Most of our offensive woes are poor shooting. That can improve. When you're down in a game, a comeback starts only if you get a stop. Remember how we used defense to come back from a big deficit vs. Memphis a few years back? (We lost anyway, but we made it a game). Who was it that based their national championship run on the box and one defense? Anyway, I agree it's exciting to see the scoreboard change quickly, to see the threes going in and bold dunks going down but I don't see how we become a run and gun team. Ray has been terrible in several ways, but I don't see how he can be criticized for emphasizing defense with the team and the limited offensive weapons we have. We seldom win a game regardless, but I don't see this team ever winning a shootout. Maybe next year.

[maroonmania]

We scored 48 points at home vs Tennessee and that's with attempting 44 free throws.

Actually 47 points.

[Liverpooldawg]

The reason people aren't coming is that we have a truly terrible team. It's one of the very worst teams in the country this year and it's possibly our worst team ever. People won't walk across the street to see that.

[shannondawg]

Where are all the folk that just wanted us to play hard?

[Johnson85]

I think an emphasis on defense gives you a better chance to win. Most of our offensive woes are poor shooting. That can improve. When you're down in a game, a comeback starts only if you get a stop. Remember how we used defense to come back from a big deficit vs. Memphis a few years back? (We lost anyway, but we made it a game). Who was it that based their national championship run on the box and one defense? Anyway, I agree it's exciting to see the scoreboard change quickly, to see the threes going in and bold dunks going down but I don't see how we become a run and gun team. Ray has been terrible in several ways, but I don't see how he can be criticized for emphasizing defense with the team and the limited offensive weapons we have. We seldom win a game regardless, but I don't see this team ever winning a shootout. Maybe next year.

I don't think anybody is criticizing him for being a defense first coach, just pointing out that it makes it that much more boring to watch. I don't mind it so much; I can appreciate a team that plays hard in the half court defense and makes the other team work for every point they get, but I'm in the minority and I haven't gotten to watch us for other reasons. But even I would prefer an aggressive defense that gets in the passing lanes if not picking people up at half court and trying to turn defensive stops into transition baskets. I am assuming that that is not how we play defense because it'd be hard to have such atrocious offensive stats if we did, but I haven't gotten to see us play so I obviously don't know.

[MadDawg]

Where are all the folk that just wanted us to play hard?

*** crickets ***

[RougeDawg]

I don't think Ray is trying for low-scoring games. I think it's more that his offense is terrible and his players barely know how to run it.

If Ray actually had an offense to run I might agree with you.

[Liverpooldawg]

My .02 on small crowds........

1. Losing
2. GTR isn't a basketball area. Football and baseball are far more popular.
3. Starkville is 2 hours from any city.
GTR used to support it, till all the old regulars got kicked out so the big money people could have thier tickets. Those folks didn't come back now that they are begging them too.

[tcdog70]

It is no mystery , I've said it over and over. We have no guards. They are to short to defend, They get posted up and scored over at will. Then to make matters worse they cannot feed the post. Our guards can't do the three Ds.- dribble, drive and dish. Ready might could play the 2 with strong PG. We need a SEC PG.

[tcdog70]

GTR used to support it, till all the old regulars got kicked out so the big money people could have thier tickets. Those folks didn't come back now that they are begging them too.

exactly,For years real basketball fans from the Golden Triangle Area supported the Dogs. Then the tickets we had been buying since 1974 were given to some Corporations with Bulldog Points . No big deal, more money and the old loyal basket ball fans could just get over it. Well , we found out we could watch on TV and save that money. And when we wanted to go to the game , no problem just walk up and buy them for half price. Now the Hump is a morgue and our Team is like the Walking Dead. There is no life in our Basketball Program.

[engie]

Where are all the folk that just wanted us to play hard?
I think most would be more forgiving if the team was actually still playing hard and had any semblance of belief in itself. We played hard for most of the game against aTm, but haven't in long spurts this year...

[engie]

GTR used to support it, till all the old regulars got kicked out so the big money people could have thier tickets. Those folks didn't come back now that they are begging them too.

Winning cures all. No one would be complaining about the reseating if we were winning. It would still be packed. We just did the same with Davis Wade. Didn't seem to hurt it all that bad(at all).

That said, we do need to reconsider the student seating arrangement...

[Liverpooldawg]

Winning cures all. No one would be complaining about the reseating if we were winning. It would still be packed. We just did the same with Davis Wade. Didn't seem to hurt it all that bad(at all).

That said, we do need to reconsider the student seating arrangement...

Why? The students don't go to basketball either. People DID complain when we were winning. They were told they weren't wanted anymore and to get over it. That's why they aren't back. The locals used to come, win or lose.

[TheRef]

Why? The students don't go to basketball either. People DID complain when we were winning. They were told they weren't wanted anymore and to get over it. That's why they aren't back. The locals used to come, win or lose.

Hey...as a student, I still want my sideline seats behind the radio where we used to be. But nope, that's where the money sits. Then they had the bright idea to put the students on either end of the court. That killed the student section right there. We weren't able to synchronize cheers and it fell apart. The next year they put us together behind the North Goal (yes...the basketball goal is on the North end of the Hump).

If you put a halfway decent product on the court, the students will come. Now will they stand and cheer? That's an entirely different question in and of itself. I won't attempt to answer that one, but you can look back and see the student participation the last few years when there were butts in seats. Anyway, if you want to put your money somewhere and actually be respected for your seats, funnel it into the women's basketball program. With the exception of 2 games ago, you could sit wherever you wanted to, and it was a family atmosphere in there. Everyone knew everyone. One of the big money people complained about someone sitting in their seat (to which I'm sure they would have moved if they asked), so now they have 3 sections that are restricted to people who have tickets to those seats. Otherwise, it's fair game on seats. Also, tickets are WAY cheaper for a higher quality team.

/rant

[Liverpooldawg]

I was there tonight.