Depressing

[msstate7]

We're 1 game into our sec basketball schedule and it seems the season is over. I really loved watching sec basketball. I feel cheated...

[I seen it dawg]

You need to figure out something else then.

[Goat from MSU]

Clean out your house ,I got stuff and paperwork from over 20 years ago,I am tossing .I am not going to have my blood pressure go up over Ray's crap he is putting on the court.

[starkvegasdawg]

Clean out your house ,I got stuff and paperwork from over 20 years ago,I am tossing .I am not going to have my blood pressure go up over Ray's crap he is putting on the court.
And here we were thinking Bobby Knight was the only one to have ever taken a dump on the basketball court.

[Goat from MSU]

Bobby Knight's mother taught Rick Ray in school .That is a true fact. Scary

[maroonmania]

I'll be honest, if we are going to suck in a sport I'm glad its basketball. College basketball, due to the corrupt recruiting, loads of prima donnas and lack of any fundamentals (thanks AAU) has really lowered my interest in the sport. Also, the garbage that goes on at a place like KY where they sign half the top ten players every year and then they leave and the next group rolls through has soured me as well. Still enjoy college basketball much, much more than the NBA but I enjoy college football and college baseball a lot more than college basketball at this point.

[msstate7]

I'll be honest, if we are going to suck in a sport I'm glad its basketball. College basketball, due to the corrupt recruiting, loads of prima donnas and lack of any fundamentals (thanks AAU) has really lowered my interest in the sport. Also, the garbage that goes on at a place like KY where they sign half the top ten players every year and then they leave and the next group rolls through has soured me as well. Still enjoy college basketball much, much more than the NBA but I enjoy college football and college baseball a lot more than college basketball at this point.

If we're gonna have a weak sport, I'm ok with it being basketball. I just can't stand it being so pathetic. I can't stand going into games pretty much knowing we have no shot even against bad teams.

[CadaverDawg]

I'll be honest, if we are going to suck in a sport I'm glad its basketball. College basketball, due to the corrupt recruiting, loads of prima donnas and lack of any fundamentals (thanks AAU) has really lowered my interest in the sport. Also, the garbage that goes on at a place like KY where they sign half the top ten players every year and then they leave and the next group rolls through has soured me as well. Still enjoy college basketball much, much more than the NBA but I enjoy college football and college baseball a lot more than college basketball at this point.

I agree.

I want to be good in all 3, but if we have to suck in one...let it be basketball. The problem is, we don't have to suck in any of them.

[msstate7]

I'm sure no one agrees with me, but I'd like stansbury to at least be interviewed if ray is fired this year. I'm not saying make him our primary target, but at least keep him in mind. Perhaps the time off helped recharge him and helped him see his past mistakes. Stansbury has won here, so I think he could do it again. We hired Richard Williams so we forgave him for embarrassing our university. Why not at least see what stansbury has to say in an interview?

[engie]

I'm with you.

I don't want to suck in basketball. I'm tired of sucking in basketball. We are missing a golden opportunity right now to revolutionize "how the country sees MSU". Us being terrible in one of the(really big 2 for this discussion) just confirms to the country "what they already think that MSU really is and will be again."

We just became the most watched Adidas school in football this year by 10 million viewers. Would have been pretty clutch to be able to parlay that into basketball, because we already know we're their flagship baseball school. Then again, they've rolled snake eyes twice in their negotiation windows with us. We command double the $$ both times if the window falls one year later...

[engie]

I'm sure no one agrees with me, but I'd like stansbury to at least be interviewed if ray is fired this year. I'm not saying make him our primary target, but at least keep him in mind. Perhaps the time off helped recharge him and helped him see his past mistakes. Stansbury has won here, so I think he could do it again. We hired Richard Williams so we forgave him for embarrassing our university. Why not at least see what stansbury has to say in an interview?

helllllllllll no....

You are just asking to open old wounds on all sides and reignite the infighting. As is, the fanbase is currently the most united it's been since 2007 or so. United in discontent. It's yet to be seen if it can be united in content.

[Political Hack]

Stans, Strick & Bracky will never work together again in any capacity.

We can get a better coach. Just someone who plays an exciting brand of basketball, running the floor, with pressure on D would be nice. I'd make Shaka take the job if I was Strick. I'd give him $2M a year if needed just for that brand of basketball. It's a perfect time for an up and coming coach to take over an SEC program. The league is down considerably and could be easy to make a run in with just 5-7 decent players.

[bluelightstar]

I love all three sports, but basketball is my #2. I hate seeing it like this. I've watched every State game I could this season, because I can't NOT watch State basketball but it actually hurts. The Hump is empty, the team is awful, and this has to be fixed immediately.

They did a young alumni season ticket offer for basketball like they did for football and I don't know a single person who took them up on it. I'm sure there were some to get them, but everybody I knew was all in immediately on football and put that offer right in the trash.

[bluelightstar]

Stans, Strick & Bracky will never work together again in any capacity.

We can get a better coach. Just someone who plays an exciting brand of basketball, running the floor, with pressure on D would be nice. I'd make Shaka take the job if I was Strick. I'd give him $2M a year if needed just for that brand of basketball. It's a perfect time for an up and coming coach to take over an SEC program. The league is down considerably and could be easy to make a run in with just 5-7 decent players.

Agree, at this point, I don't see why Stricklin wouldn't just make a "proof is in the pudding" hire and make THE coach an offer he can't refuse.

[Political Hack]

Agree, at this point, I don't see why Stricklin wouldn't just make a "proof is in the pudding" hire and make THE coach an offer he can't refuse.

I can't understand why we're sacrificing basketball. It's generally a low cost sport that can turn a decent amount of revenue, and God know LT part II is focused on making money above all else. outside of travel, it doesn't cost a lot to run a basketball team.

We've got the football and baseball program on cruise control right now, so why not make a major move in basketball and become a threat in all 3? If we don't make a MAJOR move at the end of this season, Strick should be relieved of his responsibilities. And if he doesn't show up to Keenum's door with an absolute rock star ready to take over the program, the coach should be "fired" before he's even hired and Strick should be asked to clean out his office that day.

[NCDawg]

Agree, at this point, I don't see why Stricklin wouldn't just make a "proof is in the pudding" hire and make THE coach an offer he can't refuse.

Agree. It would be great to see an exciting brand of basketball again at the Hump. I remember driving up from Jackson in the 90's to watch Dampier, Wilson, Jones, Bullard, etc. play. That was real basketball back then.

[engie]

I'd make Shaka take the job if I was Strick. I'd give him $2M a year if needed just for that brand of basketball. It's a perfect time for an up and coming coach to take over an SEC program. The league is down considerably and could be easy to make a run in with just 5-7 decent players.

He's making $1.5 at VCU with a auto-extending 10, essentially 15, year contract. And all kinds of perks for every level of their program beyond that. It'd take closer to $3mil to buy him, and I'm not even sure he can be bought, as others have tried and failed...

[War Machine Dawg]

Agree, at this point, I don't see why Stricklin wouldn't just make a "proof is in the pudding" hire and make THE coach an offer he can't refuse.

Because when it comes to actually spending the cash we have, Strick is much closer to LT than the Ninja.

[War Machine Dawg]

I can't understand why we're sacrificing basketball. It's generally a low cost sport that can turn a decent amount of revenue, and God know LT part II is focused on making money above all else. outside of travel, it doesn't cost a lot to run a basketball team.

We've got the football and baseball program on cruise control right now, so why not make a major move in basketball and become a threat in all 3? If we don't make a MAJOR move at the end of this season, Strick should be relieved of his responsibilities. And if he doesn't show up to Keenum's door with an absolute rock star ready to take over the program, the coach should be "fired" before he's even hired and Strick should be asked to clean out his office that day.

I'm not saying it's the case, but IF there's only so much cash to go around for all the athletic programs, basketball makes by far the most sense to feel the pain. Football pays the freight, so they get what they want. Period. Baseball is our traditional power sport and will get what it wants. Period. Then you have to fund all the Title IX shit, track, etc. If one of the "Big 3" takes a hit, it makes the most sense from an MSU perspective for it to be basketball. Same for TSUN. They're best off pouring the cash into football and baseball.

[Political Hack]

I'm not saying it's the case, but IF there's only so much cash to go around for all the athletic programs, basketball makes by far the most sense to feel the pain. Football pays the freight, so they get what they want. Period. Baseball is our traditional power sport and will get what it wants. Period. Then you have to fund all the Title IX shit, track, etc. If one of the "Big 3" takes a hit, it makes the most sense from an MSU perspective for it to be basketball. Same for TSUN. They're best off pouring the cash into football and baseball.

if money is a problem for our programs, it's because we're mismanaging it, not due to a lack of it.

[C222]

Stans, Strick & Bracky will never work together again in any capacity.

We can get a better coach. Just someone who plays an exciting brand of basketball, running the floor, with pressure on D would be nice. I'd make Shaka take the job if I was Strick. I'd give him $2M a year if needed just for that brand of basketball. It's a perfect time for an up and coming coach to take over an SEC program. The league is down considerably and could be easy to make a run in with just 5-7 decent players.

No chance of ever getting Shaka. He can have any job he wants. He's already turned down UCLA.

[Political Hack]

No chance of ever getting Shaka. He can have any job he wants. He's already turned down UCLA.

and Illinois. That's when he was hot and winning at VCU. He's since returned to earth and possibly realized that he's not going to be able to reproduce those results as easily as he thought.

Assuming he won't leave is like saying Peterson will never leave Boise... see how that worked? He didn't go to USC.

[engie]

and Illinois. That's when he was hot and winning at VCU. He's since returned to earth and possibly realized that he's not going to be able to reproduce those results as easily as he thought.

Assuming he won't leave is like saying Peterson will never leave Boise... see how that worked? He didn't go to USC.

I don't see how he's returned to earth?

RPI
2010 - #46
2011 - #31
2012 - #34
2013 - #26
2014 - #19
2015 - currently #4, predicted to finish at #2

He might not have made another deep run in March yet, but if anything, his stock has continued to go up as he's shown himself capable of sustaining VCU at a very high level, and actually improved their overall body of work every year he's been there... Shaka's stock is as high as it's ever been IMO...

[I seen it dawg]

I'm sure no one agrees with me, but I'd like stansbury to at least be interviewed if ray is fired this year. I'm not saying make him our primary target, but at least keep him in mind. Perhaps the time off helped recharge him and helped him see his past mistakes. Stansbury has won here, so I think he could do it again. We hired Richard Williams so we forgave him for embarrassing our university. Why not at least see what stansbury has to say in an interview?

You should ban yourself for this.

[War Machine Dawg]

if money is a problem for our programs, it's because we're mismanaging it, not due to a lack of it.

Completely agree. Just saying if one of our "big 3" has to suck, basketball makes the most sense. We aren't, and shouldn't, short changing football and baseball. That said, we definitely have the money to pour into our programs now. We'll see if we've got an AD willing to spend that cash to make more money or if we've got an AD content to be "in the black."

[War Machine Dawg]

I'm sure no one agrees with me, but I'd like stansbury to at least be interviewed if ray is fired this year. I'm not saying make him our primary target, but at least keep him in mind. Perhaps the time off helped recharge him and helped him see his past mistakes. Stansbury has won here, so I think he could do it again. We hired Richard Williams so we forgave him for embarrassing our university. Why not at least see what stansbury has to say in an interview?

Literally the dumbest thing I've ever seen posted here. Congrats, you've just surpassed Goat levels of dumbassedness.

http://i.imgur.com/oHfd32H.gif

[msstate7]

You should ban yourself for this.
Probably so :)

I should at least ban myself from watching our basketball games the rest of the year. I think watching these games is what led to my opinion above

[RBritt]

Watch other teams like LSU, Gonzaga, Wichita State, Duke, UNC, and Mich St. All are fun to watch. A&M is gonna spank us.

[Coach34]

He's making $1.5 at VCU with a auto-extending 10, essentially 15, year contract. And all kinds of perks for every level of their program beyond that. It'd take closer to $3mil to buy him, and I'm not even sure he can be bought, as others have tried and failed...

We called Shaka before hiring Ray- he said it would take $3MM for him to even consider it

[Coach34]

Watch other teams like LSU, Gonzaga, Wichita State, Duke, UNC, and Mich St. All are fun to watch. A&M is gonna spank us.

Kennedy is a good coach at A&M- he's needed recruiting help. They found it

[bluelightstar]

That Tennessee team that beat us by double digits in the Hump has 36 points at home against Alabama with under 2 minutes to go.

[Dawg61]

Basketball will turn around after this next hire. Name a search committee already.

[Political Hack]

I don't see how he's returned to earth?

RPI
2010 - #46
2011 - #31
2012 - #34
2013 - #26
2014 - #19
2015 - currently #4, predicted to finish at #2

He might not have made another deep run in March yet, but if anything, his stock has continued to go up as he's shown himself capable of sustaining VCU at a very high level, and actually improved their overall body of work every year he's been there... Shaka's stock is as high as it's ever been IMO...

Sorry, but if regular season results mattered more than the tournament, Stans could still be the head coach at Mississippi State. The tournament is all that matters.

[CadaverDawg]

I used to drive up from Jackson every Wednesday for games and then drive right back home after the game. Loved watching our team. I spent like $100 bucks per ticket on terrible seats one game just bc I wanted to get in and it was a sell out.

Now, I wouldn't go if there was hundy taped to a free courtside seat along with a lottery ticket. The fact that Ray was ever named, and still remains, our coach...is one of the most inexplicable things I've ever seen an AD do.

[engie]

Sorry, but if regular season results mattered more than the tournament, Stans could still be the head coach at Mississippi State. The tournament is all that matters.
So, you'd define a basketball coach solely on the tournament? A tournament he's made a final 4 in already at a school that had never previously made the round of 16?

The level of Shaka's program is still improving. His stock is not down. It's never been higher. He's not coaching Kentucky -- he's coaching VCU.

This is begetting of a lifetime contract in your opinion if he'd actually made the round of 16 in one of the 5 glory years? In spite of never attaining that level again in 7 years thereafter? The Sweet 16 may have been the rallying cry -- but the dropoff in the level of the teams along with the lack of discipline was Stansbury's ultimate downfall. A victim of his own success, perhaps.

Stansbury:
2012: 83
2011: 121
2010: 61
2009: 66
2008: 41
2007: 59
2006: 108
2005: 30
2004: 8
2003: 27
2002: 12
2001: 34
2000: 140
1999: 93

[Dawg61]

So, you'd define a basketball coach solely on the tournament? A tournament he's made a final 4 in already at a school that had never previously made the round of 16?

The level of Shaka's program is still improving. His stock is not down. It's never been higher. He's not coaching Kentucky -- he's coaching VCU.

This is begetting of a lifetime contract in your opinion if he'd actually made the round of 16 in one of the 5 glory years? In spite of never attaining that level again in 7 years thereafter? The Sweet 16 may have been the rallying cry -- but the dropoff in the level of the teams along with the lack of discipline was Stansbury's ultimate downfall. A victim of his own success, perhaps.

Stansbury:
2012: 83
2011: 121
2010: 61
2009: 66
2008: 41
2007: 59
2006: 108
2005: 30
2004: 8
2003: 27
2002: 12
2001: 34
2000: 140
1999: 93

How much of Ray's salary would he give up to have an RPI of 140?

[engie]

How much of Ray's salary would he give up to have an RPI of 140?
Zero dollars

140 is not the goal. Nor was the last 7 years of Stansbury. Being worse now doesn't make us good enough before.

[Dawg61]

Zero dollars

140 is not the goal. Nor was the last 7 years of Stansbury. Being worse now doesn't make us good enough before.

Don't overthink my attempt at a joke.

[smootness]

Sorry, but if regular season results mattered more than the tournament, Stans could still be the head coach at Mississippi State. The tournament is all that matters.

The tournament is mostly a crapshoot. I promise you schools are not evaluating coaches largely on their tournament success.

Just because Smart made one unbelievable run doesn't mean that not repeating that means his stock is now down. Give me another coach you feel confident could EVER take VCU to the Final 4.

[msstate7]

The tournament is mostly a crapshoot. I promise you schools are not evaluating coaches largely on their tournament success.

Just because Smart made one unbelievable run doesn't mean that not repeating that means his stock is now down. Give me another coach you feel confident could EVER take VCU to the Final 4.

Calipari

He did it at umass.

[Political Hack]

any school that's not measuring their success on tournament success does not understand the payoff or investment in college basketball. it's all TOURNAMENT. That's when the world tunes in. If you're too thick to understand that, you don't belong in athletics.

I'm a little dumfounded some of the guys I consider to be smarter-sports-wise on this board would think otherwise.

[smootness]

Calipari

He did it at umass.

Perhaps. He would probably recruit well enough to take them there. But that just kind of further helps Smart's case.

[Political Hack]

go check VCU's enrollment. after they made the final four and then after their winning seasons where they didn't make a push in the tourney.

case closed.

[smootness]

any school that's not measuring their success on tournament success does not understand the payoff or investment in college basketball. it's all TOURNAMENT. That's when the world tunes in. If you're too thick to understand that, you don't belong in athletics.

I'm a little dumfounded some of the guys I consider to be smarter-sports-wise on this board would think otherwise.

There's a difference between understanding that ultimately you want tournament success and evaluating on it. If there is a long trend over time, that's one thing. But again, it's a crapshoot. Do you evaluate the level of a poker player on how far they advance in the WSOP Main Event? More extreme example, but the same principle applies.

Anyone who is trying to evaluate a coach's ability to run a program and starts with, 'What did they do in the NCAA Tournament?' is doing it wrong, especially for a place like VCU. I promise you the best don't look at it that way.

Of course, all of this ignores that placing a heavier emphasis on Tournament success HELPS Smart.

[smootness]

go check VCU's enrollment. after they made the final four and then after their winning seasons where they didn't make a push in the tourney.

case closed.

The question is not, 'What do we ultimately want?' It's, 'Who can best put us in position to most consistently have a chance to get what we want?' And if an AD's evaluation of that starts with, 'Who went deep last year?' then that's an AD more likely to end up making a bad hire.

[tcdog70]

I'm not saying it's the case, but IF there's only so much cash to go around for all the athletic programs, basketball makes by far the most sense to feel the pain. Football pays the freight, so they get what they want. Period. Baseball is our traditional power sport and will get what it wants. Period. Then you have to fund all the Title IX shit, track, etc. If one of the "Big 3" takes a hit, it makes the most sense from an MSU perspective for it to be basketball. Same for TSUN. They're best off pouring the cash into football and baseball.


Wait a minute why sacrifice any damn thing. Strick eat you some Crow , Hire Stans back and in two years we would be back winning twenty games a year nd have a chance to beat any team we Play. Shit , what might Stans do if He ever got to practice in the Practice facility he built.

[Coach34]

Wait a minute why sacrifice any damn thing. Strick eat you some Crow , Hire Stans back and in two years we would be back winning twenty games a year nd have a chance to beat any team we Play. Shit , what might Stans do if He ever got to practice in the Practice facility he built.

bwahahahahahahahaha

Stands isnt ever coming back under this administration...nor does he need to. He is in his best role- recruiting asst

[tcdog70]

bwahahahahahahahaha

Stands isnt ever coming back under this administration...nor does he need to. He is in his best role- recruiting asst

No shit Sherlock. I was responding to Him saying one of our big three had to suck. I know Stands isn' t coming back. But and here is my point Daddy- O so pay attention, If He did, and you know it - we would be back with talent and 20 wins a season- just like I said. I know you don't like Stands but We were in the hunt were in the hunt every year with good players and the HUMP was rocking. He was trying to get to the dreaded ass " Next Level" and he took a Chance on Sidney and it backfired . And we know the rest of the story.

[Dawg61]

No shit Sherlock. I was responding to Him saying one of our big three had to suck. I know Stands isn' t coming back. But and here is my point Daddy- O so pay attention, If He did, and you know it - we would be back with talent and 20 wins a season- just like I said. I know you don't like Stands but We were in the hunt were in the hunt every year with good players and the HUMP was rocking. He was trying to get to the dreaded ass " Next Level" and he took a Chance on Sidney and it backfired . And we know the rest of the story.

Stansbury lost some 36 signees I believe was the total before he got fired. It was far far far from just Sidney.

[Dawg61]

Osby
Goodridge
Hansbrough
Lafayette guy
Turner
Smith
Bailey
Sidney
S. Smith
Synthetic marijuana guy
J. Houston
Bullethole Sharpe
Gary Ervin
Plus about twenty more

just off the top of my head. It was a repetive trait of Stansbury's teams. Once they started playing for us and actually seeing what Stanbury was like to play for they ran away as fast as possible. Stansbury HAD TO GO!!

[War Machine Dawg]

Wait a minute why sacrifice any damn thing. Strick eat you some Crow , Hire Stans back and in two years we would be back winning twenty games a year nd have a chance to beat any team we Play. Shit , what might Stans do if He ever got to practice in the Practice facility he built.

You're a special kind of stupid, aren't ya? I didn't say one had to suck. We're about to be among the richest athletic departments in the nation. We can afford to pay for a damn good coach, if we're willing. The question is whether or not we'll continue to handicap the program by living in a fantasy land by not playing the AAU game to the extent necessary to win at a competitive level. My point was simply that if on is going to suck, it makes the most sense for it to be basketball. Can you imagine the bitching if we let baseball get this bad?

[Political Hack]

if you're a valuating a coach on regular season success and not considering tournament success, you should be fired.

[engie]

if you're a valuating a coach on regular season success and not considering tournament success, you should be fired.

Who said anything about "not considering tournament success"?

If you are hiring a coach based strictly on most recent tournament success -- as you suggest -- you should be fired. You lost me in saying Shaka Smart's stock is down -- and haven't found the same page again yet.

[Bully78]

I want Rick Ray to write a personal check and refund my season tickets!

[Political Hack]

Who said anything about "not considering tournament success"?

If you are hiring a coach based strictly on most recent tournament success -- as you suggest -- you should be fired. You lost me in saying Shaka Smart's stock is down -- and haven't found the same page again yet.

wow. I didn't suggest hiring a coach on recent tournament success. I actually suggested the opposite. Shaka hasn't been that successful as of late in the tourney, and I suggested going after someone like him. He's proven he can coach in the tournament, but more importantly he brings an exciting style of basketball.

Shaka is not coming up for every opening anymore... therefore his stock is down.

[engie]

wow. I didn't suggest hiring a coach on recent tournament success. I actually suggested the opposite. Shaka hasn't been that successful as of late in the tourney, and I suggested going after someone like him. He's proven he can coach in the tournament, but more importantly he brings an exciting style of basketball.

Shaka is not coming up for every opening anymore... therefore his stock is down.
You posted "all that matters is the tournament". That would imply that the sum of the season prior to the tournament means little to nothing. With your implication that Shaka's "stock is down"(despite me showing that his teams are actually still improving), it's logical to infer your position as "only very recent success in the tournament matter". While it may not have been what you were actually intending to say or imply, it is hardly suggesting the opposite...

Shaka comes up in every single opening of matter. When you turn down UCLA and Illinois and sign a 15 year extension, your name stops coming up every time Clemson or Oregon St needs a coach. Those programs have accepted the fact that they have little-to-no chance and while they probably all contact his agent, they don't extend offers in order to be publicly spurned. That doesn't mean Shaka's stock has dropped. It means the country has recognized just how high his stock actually is.

Shaka publicly turned down Marquette last March. That was arguably the biggest opening last cycle. How is that lowered national appeal?

[RougeDawg]

I want Rick Ray to write a personal check and refund my season tickets!

I hope the current students can project how horrible our BBALL is on a football portrait. The only equivalent to Rays basketball teams are Crooms football teams. Maybe Ray is actually helping them appreciate football more and that wa Stricks plan.**