Nick Saban is such an amazing coach!!!!!!

[ShotgunDawg]

Nick Saban is such an awesome coach. On the same day that Yeldon decides to go pro, Bama gets a commitment from the best back in the country in Damien Harris.

I get that Bama is a good football school, but I don't really understand the front running attitude that recruits have that makes them feel like they have to go to Bama if offered.

This quote by Harris made me laugh:

Matt Jones ‏@KySportsRadio 36m36 minutes ago
Damien Harris said he made his decision on official visit to Alabama at Iron Bowl and because they "feed backs into the league"

So, Harris chose Alabama because they "feed backs into the league." Surely he more educated that this. Bama puts running backs into the league because they recruit the best running backs in the country, not because they do anything more in development than anyone else. I'm convinced that the lack of education that kids are receiving in high school, is directly contributing to the sustained recruiting success of some schools.

I realize that we have some Bama apologists on here that will tell me, "I completely understand why a kid would choose Bama." I get that, but it doesn't change the fact that the self fulfilling prophecy of recruiting continues to keep that program on top, when basic logic is incorrect.

Bama sells the 5 star running back that Bama running backs, that were 5 stars out of high school, have a better chance of getting to the NFL than other school's running backs, and the kid is dumb enough to believe it.

At what point to do recruits become smarter than this?

[Dawg61]

Nick Saban is such an awesome coach. On the same day that Yeldon decides to go pro, Bama gets a commitment from the best back in the country in Damien Harris.

I get that Bama is a good football school, but I don't really understand the front running attitude that recruits have that makes them feel like they have to go to Bama if offered.

This quote by Harris made me laugh:

Matt Jones ‏@KySportsRadio 36m36 minutes ago
Damien Harris said he made his decision on official visit to Alabama at Iron Bowl and because they "feed backs into the league"

So, Harris chose Alabama because they "feed backs into the league." Surely he more educated that this. Bama puts running backs into the league because they recruit the best running backs in the country, not because they do anything more in development than anyone else. I'm convinced that the lack of education that kids are receiving in high school, is directly contributing to the sustained recruiting success of some schools.

I realize that we have some Bama apologists on here that will tell me, "I completely understand why a kid would choose Bama." I get that, but it doesn't change the fact that the self fulfilling prophecy of recruiting continues to keep that program on top, when basic logic is incorrect.

Bama sells the 5 star running back that Bama running backs, that were 5 stars out of high school, have a better chance of getting to the NFL than other school's running backs, and the kid is dumb enough to believe it.

At what point to do recruits become smarter than this?

The Bama brand puts RBs on NFL teams scouting list immediately. How many years back do you have to go to find neither of the top 2 RBs at Bama get a cup of coffee atleast in the NFL? 10 years? 30 years? Never happened? Idk but running backs and Bama are like Kentucky basketball and McDonald's all-Americans. It's a domino effect now. All the past success does the recruiting for Bama. It's just the truth. Until Saban leaves you can just assume it'll stay this way.

[CadaverDawg]

Nick Saban is such an awesome coach. On the same day that Yeldon decides to go pro, Bama gets a commitment from the best back in the country in Damien Harris.

I get that Bama is a good football school, but I don't really understand the front running attitude that recruits have that makes them feel like they have to go to Bama if offered.

This quote by Harris made me laugh:

Matt Jones ‏@KySportsRadio 36m36 minutes ago
Damien Harris said he made his decision on official visit to Alabama at Iron Bowl and because they "feed backs into the league"

So, Harris chose Alabama because they "feed backs into the league." Surely he more educated that this. Bama puts running backs into the league because they recruit the best running backs in the country, not because they do anything more in development than anyone else. I'm convinced that the lack of education that kids are receiving in high school, is directly contributing to the sustained recruiting success of some schools.

I realize that we have some Bama apologists on here that will tell me, "I completely understand why a kid would choose Bama." I get that, but it doesn't change the fact that the self fulfilling prophecy of recruiting continues to keep that program on top, when basic logic is incorrect.

Bama sells the 5 star running back that Bama running backs, that were 5 stars out of high school, have a better chance of getting to the NFL than other school's running backs, and the kid is dumb enough to believe it.

At what point to do recruits become smarter than this?

Smarter than what? Going to a school that will likely win a Championship while you're in school there, AND you will likely go to the NFL after a good college career?

I don't follow your point. That doesn't make a kid dumb.

[missouridawg]

So, Harris chose Alabama because they "feed backs into the league." Surely he more educated that this. Bama puts running backs into the league because they recruit the best running backs in the country, not because they do anything more in development than anyone else.


Do you really think that Bama doesn't have one of the premier talent development programs in the country?

[defiantdog]

Nick Saban is such an awesome coach. On the same day that Yeldon decides to go pro, Bama gets a commitment from the best back in the country in Damien Harris.

I get that Bama is a good football school, but I don't really understand the front running attitude that recruits have that makes them feel like they have to go to Bama if offered.

This quote by Harris made me laugh:

Matt Jones ‏@KySportsRadio 36m36 minutes ago
Damien Harris said he made his decision on official visit to Alabama at Iron Bowl and because they "feed backs into the league"

So, Harris chose Alabama because they "feed backs into the league." Surely he more educated that this. Bama puts running backs into the league because they recruit the best running backs in the country, not because they do anything more in development than anyone else. I'm convinced that the lack of education that kids are receiving in high school, is directly contributing to the sustained recruiting success of some schools.

I realize that we have some Bama apologists on here that will tell me, "I completely understand why a kid would choose Bama." I get that, but it doesn't change the fact that the self fulfilling prophecy of recruiting continues to keep that program on top, when basic logic is incorrect.

Bama sells the 5 star running back that Bama running backs, that were 5 stars out of high school, have a better chance of getting to the NFL than other school's running backs, and the kid is dumb enough to believe it.

At what point to do recruits become smarter than this?

I understand your envy here, but Alabama is second in SEC Championship wins behind Florida. Until other schools start "continuously" beating them, they will keep getting these 5 star kids. It's an easy sell for Saban..... come to Alabama where we win championships. He's not lying. All we can say is, "Come to MSU, where we will win a championship." It's a clear difference and an advantage for schools like Florida, Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Georgia and Tennessee who have all won SEC Championship games. We have to start winning the big ones to recruit these kids outside of our norm.

[msstate7]

If you want to have nfl success, lsu seems to be the better choice than bama. Seems to me that lsu's players do better than bama's in nfl.

(No research so it could just seem that way to me)

[ShotgunDawg]

Smarter than what? Going to a school that will likely win a Championship while you're in school there, AND you will likely go to the NFL after a good college career?

I don't follow your point. That doesn't make a kid dumb.

And out come the Bama apologists. Again, I GET IT!!!!

It doesn't change the fact that kids don't have to go to Bama to have a career in the NFL, and I don't believe Bama's brand really helps kids in the draft. Do you think McKinney would be a higher pick if he went to Bama or would Josh Robinson get drafted higher if he went to Bama?

Would Dak Prescott get a higher draft grade if he was Bama's QB instead of MSU's? AJ McCarron was only a 5th round pick and look how accomplished he was.

I get the championship thing, but the reasons they win championships is because kids like Damien Harris feel like they have to go there.

[ShotgunDawg]

Do you really think that Bama doesn't have one of the premier talent development programs in the country?

Of course they do, but so does most every other SEC school.

On a percentage basis, have Bama players been more successful in the NFL than other school's players? Hell, LSU players pan out much more often

[ShotgunDawg]

I understand your envy here, but Alabama is second in SEC Championship wins behind Florida. Until other schools start "continuously" beating them, they will keep getting these 5 star kids. It's an easy sell for Saban..... come to Alabama where we win championships. He's not lying. All we can say is, "Come to MSU, where we will win a championship." It's a clear difference and an advantage for schools like Florida, Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Georgia and Tennessee who have all won SEC Championship games. We have to start winning the big ones to recruit these kids outside of our norm.

Are you not envious? Do you not wish that MSU could sell kids flawed logic and they'd buy it in bulk?

They win because the 5 star kid goes there. It's a self fulfilling cycle that's reserved for idiots that don't understand how this stuff works.

Give Vanderbilt Bama's players and give Bama Vanderbilt's players, and let's see how much Saban's coaching, the history of the program, etc really matters. If there's truly something special about Bama, then Bama should be competitive with Vandy's players.

[msstate7]

If bama doesn't win again next year, will saban be doing less with more than pretty much everyone? Back to back 2 loss seasons. If bama holds onto #1 spot in recruiting, they'll have had #1 class for 5 straight years.

[Dawg61]

And out come the Bama apologists. Again, I GET IT!!!!

It doesn't change the fact that kids don't have to go to Bama to have a career in the NFL, and I don't believe Bama's brand really helps kids in the draft. Do you think McKinney would be a higher pick if he went to Bama or would Josh Robinson get drafted higher if he went to Bama?

Would Dak Prescott get a higher draft grade if he was Bama's QB instead of MSU's? AJ McCarron was only a 5th round pick and look how accomplished he was.

I get the championship thing, but the reasons they win championships is because kids like Damien Harris feel like they have to go there.

No you don't get it and your argument is flawed anyways. Being a running back at Alabama automatically raises that players floor. Not his ceiling. Think about it like this. JRob at peak performance is rated the same at both schools but if JRob had picked Bama he would of showed up with a much higher rating than he does at MSU for NFL scouts. Meaning he's much much more likely to have an NFL gate if the draft is that day.

[HoopsDawg]

Give Vanderbilt Bama's players and give Bama Vanderbilt's players, and let's see how much Saban's coaching, the history of the program, etc really matters. If there's truly something special about Bama, then Bama should be competitive with Vandy's players.

We already conducted this experiment and Croom won.

[smootness]

I helped out with Rising Seniors here in GA a couple weeks ago, which culminates in an all-star game for almost all of the top juniors in the state. One night, Alvin Kamara spoke to the kids about his recruiting process. He was in the class of 2013 and was the GA POY, a 4-star recruit as a RB. He said he believed everything everyone told him, and despite Yeldon, Kenyan Drake, and Dee Hart already being on campus and THREE other big-time RB recruits in his class (Derrick Henry, Tyren Jones, and Altee Tenpenny), all he heard from Bama was, 'No, you'll play over Yeldon. Don't worry about the other guys, you're the one we want.' Obviously I'm sure kids get a pitch like this from a lot of schools, but on the surface that seems patently insane to anyone from the outside.

But he believed it, as I'm sure a lot of these kids do. There's no way any of those RBs in his class showed up believing they were going to have to seriously compete to beat out the others. Yet two years later, Henry is playing and none of the others are. Hart didn't even play and transferred. Kamara is now coming out of JUCO and is going to Tennessee.

So while I can't fault a highly-rated kid for going to Bama, especially if you're the top RB in the country, it is absurd for so many guys at the same position to show up. You're obviously not all going to play. Maybe you want the competition, but I bet if you interview Dee Hart, he would do it differently if he had the chance rather than ending up at Colorado State. I know Kamara would.

[ShotgunDawg]

No you don't get it and your argument is flawed anyways. Being a running back at Alabama automatically raises that players floor. Not his ceiling. Think about it like this. JRob at peak performance is rated the same at both schools but if JRob had picked Bama he would of showed up with a much higher rating than he does at MSU for NFL scouts. Meaning he's much much more likely to have an NFL gate if the draft is that day.

What you just wrote would be extremely insulting to NFL scouts. Trust me, I would know, and I do get it. I don't think you get how the evaluation process works.

[ShotgunDawg]

If bama doesn't win again next year, will saban be doing less with more than pretty much everyone? Back to back 2 loss seasons. If bama holds onto #1 spot in recruiting, they'll have had #1 class for 5 straight years.

Yes, he would be. Imagine if you gave an NFL team the 1st 25 picks of the draft each year for 5 straight years. How many games a year do you think they'd lose?

[smootness]

No you don't get it and your argument is flawed anyways. Being a running back at Alabama automatically raises that players floor. Not his ceiling. Think about it like this. JRob at peak performance is rated the same at both schools but if JRob had picked Bama he would of showed up with a much higher rating than he does at MSU for NFL scouts. Meaning he's much much more likely to have an NFL gate if the draft is that day.

But we could never test this out because if you show up at Alabama as a RB, you're already on everyone's radar as one of the top in the country. And whoever wins the job is guaranteed to be really good because of the kind of talent they have competing, but the other guys are worse off. Look at it like this - if Dee Hart comes to Mississippi State instead of Alabama, he doesn't show up less on people's radars. He was a big-time recruit, he will be noticed no matter where he goes. But perhaps at MSU, he beats out Perkins and Robinson instead of being buried on the depth chart. And perhaps he improves even more with the playing time instead of having to come in with little time and having to be the man at Colorado State from the beginning.

Bama gets the best players in the country, so it seems as though they get more attention because they're Bama but I believe it has more to do with the fact that Bama gets more attention because they get all the best players. There is nothing we can point to that shows a mid-3-star guy will show up with more attention on him just for going to Bama. It's more likely that kid will be buried on the depth chart and won't see the field.

You can't tell me Robinson's situation would be better now had he had the opportunity to go to Bama. My guess is that his ceiling would have been lowered considerably.

[defiantdog]

Are you not envious? Do you not wish that MSU could sell kids flawed logic and they'd buy it in bulk?

They win because the 5 star kid goes there. It's a self fulfilling cycle that's reserved for idiots that don't understand how this stuff works.

Give Vanderbilt Bama's players and give Bama Vanderbilt's players, and let's see how much Saban's coaching, the history of the program, etc really matters. If there's truly something special about Bama, then Bama should be competitive with Vandy's players.

No, I'm completely envious..... that's why I said I understand your envy. Unfortunately for us, Alabama will always get the top talent because of their past and the fact that they will do anything to get the best players. They have more fans, more boosters and more money. That goes a long way when it comes to recruiting..... I see the shit every day. That why they're able to get away with shit like this..... http://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/imported_assets/2195795/RK1c0aJ_medium.jpg

[ShotgunDawg]

No, I'm completely envious..... that's why I said I understand your envy. Unfortunately for us, Alabama will always get the top talent because of their past and the fact that they will do anything to get the best players. They have more fans, more boosters and more money. That goes a long way when it comes to recruiting..... I see the shit every day. That why they're able to get away with shit like this..... http://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/imported_assets/2195795/RK1c0aJ_medium.jpg

True on this.

[ShotgunDawg]

But we could never test this out because if you show up at Alabama as a RB, you're already on everyone's radar as one of the top in the country. And whoever wins the job is guaranteed to be really good because of the kind of talent they have competing, but the other guys are worse off. Look at it like this - if Dee Hart comes to Mississippi State instead of Alabama, he doesn't show up less on people's radars. He was a big-time recruit, he will be noticed no matter where he goes. But perhaps at MSU, he beats out Perkins and Robinson instead of being buried on the depth chart. And perhaps he improves even more with the playing time instead of having to come in with little time and having to be the man at Colorado State from the beginning.

Bama gets the best players in the country, so it seems as though they get more attention because they're Bama but I believe it has more to do with the fact that Bama gets more attention because they get all the best players. There is nothing we can point to that shows a mid-3-star guy will show up with more attention on him just for going to Bama. It's more likely that kid will be buried on the depth chart and won't see the field.

You can't tell me Robinson's situation would be better now had he had the opportunity to go to Bama. My guess is that his ceiling would have been lowered considerably.

Outstanding post

[CadaverDawg]

And out come the Bama apologists. Again, I GET IT!!!!

It doesn't change the fact that kids don't have to go to Bama to have a career in the NFL, and I don't believe Bama's brand really helps kids in the draft. Do you think McKinney would be a higher pick if he went to Bama or would Josh Robinson get drafted higher if he went to Bama?

Would Dak Prescott get a higher draft grade if he was Bama's QB instead of MSU's? AJ McCarron was only a 5th round pick and look how accomplished he was.

I get the championship thing, but the reasons they win championships is because kids like Damien Harris feel like they have to go there.

I'm not a "Bama apologist".....I'm a realist. It's not just NFL. It's also facilities, Championships, playing with other great players, Nick Saban, etc, etc.
And I'm sorry, but you're crazy if you don't think their name helps. When NFL coaches look at players to scout...they are more likely to look towards the best developmental programs in the college game, with the Best coach in the game. It is what it is.

Not to mention, when you are running behind a stud OL, you have a much better chance at success.

So again, I'm no "apologist", just a "realist" with 2 eyes.

[starkvegasdawg]

If you want to have nfl success, lsu seems to be the better choice than bama. Seems to me that lsu's players do better than bama's in nfl.

(No research so it could just seem that way to me)

Jamarcus Russell wishes that were true in every case.

[EAVdog]

NFL scouts will find the talent. You don't have to go to Alabama to get to the League. Bama signs a lot of guys that never make it to the NFL, particularly with the 'process'. But if you have to play somewhere may as well play where you will have top caliber players around you and good chance to win a Ship.

Also the Dodge Chargers don't hurt.

[ShotgunDawg]

I'm not a "Bama apologist".....I'm a realist. It's not just NFL. It's also facilities, Championships, playing with other great players, Nick Saban, etc, etc.
And I'm sorry, but you're crazy if you don't think their name helps. When NFL coaches look at players to scout...they are more likely to look towards the best developmental programs in the college game, with the Best coach in the game. It is what it is.

Not to mention, when you are running behind a stud OL, you have a much better chance at success.

So again, I'm no "apologist", just a "realist" with 2 eyes.

Cadaver, I really like you, but have learned that many times, we just don't see the world the same way and that's OK. It creates good discussions.

[msstate7]

I'm not a "Bama apologist".....I'm a realist. It's not just NFL. It's also facilities, Championships, playing with other great players, Nick Saban, etc, etc.
And I'm sorry, but you're crazy if you don't think their name helps. When NFL coaches look at players to scout...they are more likely to look towards the best developmental programs in the college game, with the Best coach in the game. It is what it is.

Not to mention, when you are running behind a stud OL, you have a much better chance at success.

So again, I'm no "apologist", just a "realist" with 2 eyes.

So you're saying nfl scouts are gonna be headed to Columbus, Ohio? Meyer is taking over best coach title very soon if he hasn't already.

[Dawg61]

But we could never test this out because if you show up at Alabama as a RB, you're already on everyone's radar as one of the top in the country. And whoever wins the job is guaranteed to be really good because of the kind of talent they have competing, but the other guys are worse off. Look at it like this - if Dee Hart comes to Mississippi State instead of Alabama, he doesn't show up less on people's radars. He was a big-time recruit, he will be noticed no matter where he goes. But perhaps at MSU, he beats out Perkins and Robinson instead of being buried on the depth chart. And perhaps he improves even more with the playing time instead of having to come in with little time and having to be the man at Colorado State from the beginning.

Bama gets the best players in the country, so it seems as though they get more attention because they're Bama but I believe it has more to do with the fact that Bama gets more attention because they get all the best players. There is nothing we can point to that shows a mid-3-star guy will show up with more attention on him just for going to Bama. It's more likely that kid will be buried on the depth chart and won't see the field.

You can't tell me Robinson's situation would be better now had he had the opportunity to go to Bama. My guess is that his ceiling would have been lowered considerably.

I don't study Bama's depth chart. I assume they are stocking the position with the respect to the players included. No team should really have more than 5-6 RBs on scholarship. Anymore than that and you're weaking yourself at other positions. Bama isn't dumb.

[smootness]

I don't study Bama's depth chart. I assume they are stocking the position with the respect to the players included. No team should really have more than 5-6 RBs on scholarship. Anymore than that and you're weaking yourself at other positions. Bama isn't dumb.

I'll be honest, I'm not really sure what point of mine you're responding to with this. I'm also guessing Bama doesn't at any point have more than 6 or so RBs on scholarship. But they're all 4- and 5-star guys, and it also leads to transfers, like Dee Hart.

But people seem to believe that because Bama has the most players drafted, it means a player is more likely to make it to the NFL by going to Bama. This is statistically true, but the analysis comes with determining why. You seem to believe that being at Bama is the variable that gives them more looks and a higher evaluation by the NFL. I believe it is the player's natural talent level, which is what gave them the opportunity to play at Bama to begin with. So why is a player who goes to Bama more likely to make the NFL? Because if you're going to Bama right now, it's because you already have a better chance to make the NFL because it already means you're really talented. Bama has its choice of really talented players, so they have the luxury of only taking really, really talented players.

Take an untalented player, put him at Bama, and it won't make him drafted. Take a really talented player, put him at State, he will be drafted. However, take a talented player, put him at Bama, and there's a better chance he is buried on the depth chart.

If I were as good a player as anyone in the country, it would be tough to turn down Bama because I would feel confident I would beat everyone else out anyway. If I were a very good player but not necessarily the best, I'm going somewhere else.

Matt Cassel was drafted by the NFL despite never starting a college game. Why? It's not just because of the reputation that came with being the USC backup since his NFL career proves he had the talent. He wasn't drafted on reputation, he was drafted on talent. It's just that at USC, you had so many talented QBs that he didn't play. Same with Bama now. The 'premier NFL talent producer' has always shifted over time. It was Miami in the early 2000s, USC after that, Bama now. It isn't because these places do more with the talent they have; it's because they get more talent. There's no coincidence that the NFL production began after these programs started dominating recruiting rankings.

[Dawg61]

I'll be honest, I'm not really sure what point of mine you're responding to with this. I'm also guessing Bama doesn't at any point have more than 6 or so RBs on scholarship. But they're all 4- and 5-star guys, and it also leads to transfers, like Dee Hart.

But people seem to believe that because Bama has the most players drafted, it means a player is more likely to make it to the NFL by going to Bama. This is statistically true, but the analysis comes with determining why. You seem to believe that being at Bama is the variable that gives them more looks and a higher evaluation by the NFL. I believe it is the player's natural talent level, which is what gave them the opportunity to play at Bama to begin with. So why is a player who goes to Bama more likely to make the NFL? Because if you're going to Bama right now, it's because you already have a better chance to make the NFL because it already means you're really talented. Bama has its choice of really talented players, so they have the luxury of only taking really, really talented players.

Take an untalented player, put him at Bama, and it won't make him drafted. Take a really talented player, put him at State, he will be drafted. However, take a talented player, put him at Bama, and there's a better chance he is buried on the depth chart.

If I were as good a player as anyone in the country, it would be tough to turn down Bama because I would feel confident I would beat everyone else out anyway. If I were a very good player but not necessarily the best, I'm going somewhere else.

Matt Cassel was drafted by the NFL despite never starting a college game. Why? It's not just because of the reputation that came with being the USC backup since his NFL career proves he had the talent. He wasn't drafted on reputation, he was drafted on talent. It's just that at USC, you had so many talented QBs that he didn't play. Same with Bama now. The 'premier NFL talent producer' has always shifted over time. It was Miami in the early 2000s, USC after that, Bama now. It isn't because these places do more with the talent they have; it's because they get more talent. There's no coincidence that the NFL production began after these programs started dominating recruiting rankings.

No 17 year old HS football player gives a shit about anything you just posted. They simply want to go to the school that puts RBs in the league the most.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

By my count Bama has 42 active players in the NFL and out of those only 15 are on the offensive side of the ball, with 8 being offensive lineman. It looks to me that Bama either evaluates talent better on the defensive side or that NFL scouts think they develop players better on the defensive side of the ball. If bama has a feature back, they usually ride them and they don't have a lot left in the tank once they reach the NFL (see Mark Ingram).

Javier Arenas Atlanta Falcons Cornerback
Mark Barron St. Louis Rams Strong Safety
James Carpenter Seattle Seahawks Offensive Guard
Josh Chapman Indianapolis Colts Defensive Tackle
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix Green Bay Packers Free Safety
Terrence Cody Baltimore Ravens Defensive Tackle
Marcell Dareus Buffalo Bills Defensive Tackle
Brandon Deaderick New Orleans Saints Defensive End
Quinton Dial San Francisco 49ers Defensive Tackle
D.J. Fluker San Diego Chargers Offensive Tackle
Wallace Gilberry Cincinnati Bengals Defensive End
Roman Harper Carolina Panthers Strong Safety
Dont'a Hightower New England Patriots Linebacker
Mark Ingram New Orleans Saints Running Back
Kareem Jackson Houston Texans Cornerback
Jarret Johnson San Diego Chargers Linebacker
Rashad Johnson Arizona Cardinals Free Safety
Nico Johnson Cincinnati Bengals Linebacker
Julio Jones Atlanta Falcons Wide Receiver
Barrett Jones St. Louis Rams Offensive Guard
Dre Kirkpatrick Cincinnati Bengals Cornerback
Cyrus Kouandjio Buffalo Bills Offensive Tackle
Eddie Lacy Green Bay Packers Running Back
Robert Lester Carolina Panthers Strong Safety
Evan Mathis Philadelphia Eagles Offensive Guard
AJ McCarron Cincinnati Bengals Quarterback
Rolando McClain Dallas Cowboys Linebacker
Dee Milliner New York Jets Cornerback
C.J. Mosley Baltimore Ravens Linebacker
Kevin Norwood Seattle Seahawks Wide Receiver
Jeoffrey Pagan Houston Texans Defensive End
Trent Richardson Indianapolis Colts Running Back
DeMeco Ryans Philadelphia Eagles Linebacker
Andre Smith Cincinnati Bengals Offensive Tackle
Damion Square San Diego Chargers Defensive End
Anthony Steen Arizona Cardinals Offensive Guard
Ed Stinson Arizona Cardinals Defensive End
Vinnie Sunseri New Orleans Saints Safety
Carson Tinker Jacksonville Jaguars Center
Courtney Upshaw Baltimore Ravens Linebacker
Chance Warmack Tennessee Titans Offensive Guard
Jesse Williams Seattle Seahawks Defensive Tackle

Sorry for the formatting, but here's the link:http://espn.go.com/nfl/college

[Dawg61]

We have 14 players in the NFL.

[ShotgunDawg]

No 17 year old HS football player gives a shit about anything you just posted. They simply want to go to the school that puts RBs in the league the most.

There, you nailed it. Why do recruits think that the reason Alabama puts RBs in the league is because Alabama and not just the pure talent of the player?

[ShotgunDawg]

By my count Bama has 42 active players in the NFL and out of those only 15 are on the offensive side of the ball, with 8 being offensive lineman. It looks to me that Bama either evaluates talent better on the defensive side or that NFL scouts think they develop players better on the defensive side of the ball. If bama has a feature back, they usually ride them and they don't have a lot left in the tank once they reach the NFL (see Mark Ingram).
:http://espn.go.com/nfl/college

Or maybe, just maybe the get the 5 star recruits on the defensive side of the ball that everyone else wants as well..... You think that may have more to do with it than Bama's evaluation or development?

[Dawg61]

There, you nailed it. Why do recruits think that the reason Alabama puts RBs in the league is because Alabama and not just the pure talent of the player?

Interpolation just showed you why. 42 current players. Doesn't have to be just NFL RB's that attract more RBs. It's total NFL players. It's a domino effect now.

[EAVdog]

42 to 14, so they have 3 times as many NFL players than we do. Interesting because they certainly have more than 3 times as many 5# players as we do. Seems like a lot of 5* guys ain't making it to the League through Tuscaloosa.

I think I heard before our game that they had 22 5* guys and we had 1 5*. Playing time should be much more of a concern to these croots than it appears it is.

[smootness]

No 17 year old HS football player gives a shit about anything you just posted. They simply want to go to the school that puts RBs in the league the most.

Well, that's kind of the original point. No one debates that HS kids buy into it; the question is whether or not it's actually true.

[ShotgunDawg]

Interpolation just showed you why. 42 current players. Doesn't have to be just NFL RB's that attract more RBs. It's total NFL players. It's a domino effect now.

Agree. It is a domino effect, but it's a domino effect due to a causation vs correlation misunderstanding. Yes, there is a strong correlation between players going to Bama and getting to the NFL, but the causation for players getting to the NFL isn't because they went to Bama. The causation for them getting to the NFL is because they are really really talented, and were either 4 or 5 star recruit when they went to Bama.

[RougeDawg]

42 to 14, so they have 3 times as many NFL players than we do. Interesting because they certainly have more than 3 times as many 5# players as we do. Seems like a lot of 5* guys ain't making it to the League through Tuscaloosa.

I think I heard before our game that they had 22 5* guys and we had 1 5*. Playing time should be much more of a concern to these croots than it appears it is.

This is my thinking. Why go get buried inns depth chart at Bama when you could go play immediately for a MSU 10-2 type team, that could be the difference in them going 12-0 and to playoffs? You get to play immediately on a team that is very close to winning the SEC and potential natty. I don't understand how our coaches can't sell this along with the success stories of all of our 2-3* guys going to the league. I could sell this line all day every day to any recruit in the nation. It just has to be broken down into terms they can understand.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Or maybe, just maybe the get the 5 star recruits on the defensive side of the ball that everyone else wants as well..... You think that may have more to do with it than Bama's evaluation or development?

Yes they get good players, but they recruit from a national pool of prospects and to hit on as many as they do it tells me they knew how to evaluate talent. Then from an NFL perspective, Saban is an ex-NFL head coach and his players from LSU and bama have gone on to be NFL players that are more prepared for the NFL than a lot of teams. They run a pro style offense and defense which helps players get ready for NFL schemes and in turn leads to his reputation as a developer of NFL talent. It is interesting to see the difference in the offensive v defensive players that made the NFL and I don't know if that's an evaluation or a development issue because they get a lot of offensive players that other teams want as well.

[Dawg61]

Agree. It is a domino effect, but it's a domino effect due to a causation vs correlation misunderstanding. Yes, there is a strong correlation between players going to Bama and getting to the NFL, but the causation for players getting to the NFL isn't because they went to Bama. The causation for them getting to the NFL is because they are really really talented, and were either 4 or 5 star recruit when they went to Bama.

Well the domino effect won't be stopped anytime soon and that's Bama's program anyways. We have to somehow extinguish the negative outlook that playing in Starkville is cast as before we even attempt at blocking Bama's domino effect.

[ShotgunDawg]

Yes they get good players, but they recruit from a national pool of prospects and to hit on as many as they do it tells me they knew how to evaluate talent. Then from an NFL perspective, Saban is an ex-NFL head coach and his players from LSU and bama have gone on to be NFL players that are more prepared for the NFL than a lot of teams. They run a pro style offense and defense which helps players get ready for NFL schemes and in turn leads to his reputation as a developer of NFL talent. It is interesting to see the difference in the offensive v defensive players that made the NFL and I don't know if that's an evaluation or a development issue because they get a lot of offensive players that other teams want as well.

So... your giving Saban credit for properly evaluating 5 star prospects? Man, that must be a tough life he has. I can't imagine the difficulty of picking the correct 10-15 players out of the best 30 players in the country.

They've had the #1 recruiting class in the country for 5 straight years, meaning they are getting more 5 stars than anyone else. It would be a complete embarrassment if they weren't putting players in the NFL.

Why are LSU players panning out in the NFL more than Alabama players, when Bama is out recruiting them every year?

[defiantdog]

So... your giving Saban credit for properly evaluating 5 star prospects? Man, that must be a tough life he has. I can't imagine the difficulty of picking the correct 10-15 players out of the best 30 players in the country.

They've had the #1 recruiting class in the country for 5 straight years, meaning they are getting more 5 stars than anyone else. It would be a complete embarrassment if they weren't putting players in the NFL.

Why are LSU players panning out in the NFL more than Alabama players, when Bama is out recruiting them every year?

LSU still has close to a top 10 class every year in recruiting. But you never know, things can change. USC, Miami, FSU, and Florida controlled the NFL draft from 1999 - 2010. Now it's FSU, Alabama, and LSU. So times do change, but it takes a lot of money to move things in your favor.

[smootness]

Yes they get good players, but they recruit from a national pool of prospects and to hit on as many as they do it tells me they knew how to evaluate talent. Then from an NFL perspective, Saban is an ex-NFL head coach and his players from LSU and bama have gone on to be NFL players that are more prepared for the NFL than a lot of teams. They run a pro style offense and defense which helps players get ready for NFL schemes and in turn leads to his reputation as a developer of NFL talent. It is interesting to see the difference in the offensive v defensive players that made the NFL and I don't know if that's an evaluation or a development issue because they get a lot of offensive players that other teams want as well.

Bama players are more prepared for the NFL, on average, than the NFL players from other schools? Do we have evidence to support this? Just among RBs, we have Eddie Lacy who has been great but we also have Mark Ingram, who's been a disappointment, and Trent Richardson, who is an outright bust. There is no recent Bama QB who has done anything in the league. Julio Jones, Marcel Dareus, CJ Mosley...they definitely have some really good players in the NFL. But it's not like everyone they put out there turns out better than anticipated.

[Dawgface]

Dumb thread. What the guy said is no different than the thinking basketball players have with respect to going to KY. Its really not that hard to understand. Oops.....I guess that makes me a bama apologist.

[Percho]

Nick Saban is such an awesome coach. On the same day that Yeldon decides to go pro, Bama gets a commitment from the best back in the country in Damien Harris.

I get that Bama is a good football school, but I don't really understand the front running attitude that recruits have that makes them feel like they have to go to Bama if offered.

This quote by Harris made me laugh:

Matt Jones ‏@KySportsRadio 36m36 minutes ago
Damien Harris said he made his decision on official visit to Alabama at Iron Bowl and because they "feed backs into the league"

So, Harris chose Alabama because they "feed backs into the league." Surely he more educated that this. Bama puts running backs into the league because they recruit the best running backs in the country, not because they do anything more in development than anyone else. I'm convinced that the lack of education that kids are receiving in high school, is directly contributing to the sustained recruiting success of some schools.

I realize that we have some Bama apologists on here that will tell me, "I completely understand why a kid would choose Bama." I get that, but it doesn't change the fact that the self fulfilling prophecy of recruiting continues to keep that program on top, when basic logic is incorrect.

Bama sells the 5 star running back that Bama running backs, that were 5 stars out of high school, have a better chance of getting to the NFL than other school's running backs, and the kid is dumb enough to believe it.

At what point to do recruits become smarter than this?

I can't answer that yet because I have not collected enough data to tell me which way the breeding is taking us.

[Percho]

Agree. It is a domino effect, but it's a domino effect due to a causation vs correlation misunderstanding. Yes, there is a strong correlation between players going to Bama and getting to the NFL, but the causation for players getting to the NFL isn't because they went to Bama. The causation for them getting to the NFL is because they are really really talented, and were either 4 or 5 star recruit when they went to Bama.

Here is a thought. How much better would our % of beating Bama be, if we had the guys on our team in any given year that is on Bama's team but never see the field?

[TUSK]

I'll be honest, I'm not really sure what point of mine you're responding to with this. I'm also guessing Bama doesn't at any point have more than 6 or so RBs on scholarship. But they're all 4- and 5-star guys, and it also leads to transfers, like Dee Hart.

But people seem to believe that because Bama has the most players drafted, it means a player is more likely to make it to the NFL by going to Bama. This is statistically true, but the analysis comes with determining why. You seem to believe that being at Bama is the variable that gives them more looks and a higher evaluation by the NFL. I believe it is the player's natural talent level, which is what gave them the opportunity to play at Bama to begin with. So why is a player who goes to Bama more likely to make the NFL? Because if you're going to Bama right now, it's because you already have a better chance to make the NFL because it already means you're really talented. Bama has its choice of really talented players, so they have the luxury of only taking really, really talented players.

Take an untalented player, put him at Bama, and it won't make him drafted. Take a really talented player, put him at State, he will be drafted. However, take a talented player, put him at Bama, and there's a better chance he is buried on the depth chart.

If I were as good a player as anyone in the country, it would be tough to turn down Bama because I would feel confident I would beat everyone else out anyway. If I were a very good player but not necessarily the best, I'm going somewhere else.

Matt Cassel was drafted by the NFL despite never starting a college game. Why? It's not just because of the reputation that came with being the USC backup since his NFL career proves he had the talent. He wasn't drafted on reputation, he was drafted on talent. It's just that at USC, you had so many talented QBs that he didn't play. Same with Bama now. The 'premier NFL talent producer' has always shifted over time. It was Miami in the early 2000s, USC after that, Bama now. It isn't because these places do more with the talent they have; it's because they get more talent. There's no coincidence that the NFL production began after these programs started dominating recruiting rankings.

I know I'm late to this party, but that's a solid post, IMO.

[HoopsDawg]

I know I'm late to this party, but that's a solid post, IMO.

Tusk, you guys are losing a pretty good bit on offense, no? Who will most likely be your QB?

[TUSK]

Tusk, you guys are losing a pretty good bit on offense, no? Who will most likely be your QB?

Yup, our O is gettin whacked....

QB is up in the air: XFer RS SR Coker, early FR enrolly Barnett (#1 in '15), RS SO Bateman are the leaders, IMO... Cornwell & Morris are supposed to be badasses, but I'm skeptical....

I feel better about the QB pos in '15 than I did going in to '14...

RB is crazy deep... our TE is soft, but is a huge target and runs like a deer... WRs will be fine (although we won't have a rockstar like Cooper)...

Replacing the right side of the OL (G & T) won't be un-doable... really deep with talent and a tad of experience...

LG concerns me...

The Defense may be the most talented since My Dark Lord's arrival (save '11)...

ST should be better.