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CadaverDawg
04-01-2013, 02:32 PM
Wanted to get you guys thoughts on this....

Right now we are getting absolutely nothing out of Evan, Woody, and Cox in SEC play. But we HAVE to get them involved to have sustained success this season in my opinion. So I think Cohen and Butch should sit these 3 down and say, we're going to pitch you 3 guys tomorrow against South Alabama. We know that you guys have been trying to overthrow, and putting pressure on yourselves to dominate and earn a starting role, so we want to relieve some pressure. We are going to plan on throwing each of you 2 innings, with a maximum of 3 innings against USA. We want you to have a mindset that you are only going 3 max, and just focus on command and not overthrowing, just relying on your stuff. And if we don't get 3 out of each of you, we'll let Bracewell come in and close it out to get back in his reliever groove.

This would basically just give them a low pressure, low expectation situation to try and build their confidence back up. What do you think? Start Evan or Woody and let them combine for the first 5-6 and then bring Cox in.

Just a thought, because we are running out of time in the midweek to get them going again. We do not need to be experimenting with these 3 during SEC play, and with it being a mental thing, I think a short confident outing could be just what the doctor ordered.

Thoughts?

ComradeDawg
04-01-2013, 02:41 PM
Hell, my thoughts are that Cohen should have figured all this shit out a long damn time ago. I was rubbing noses in our record and rankings for weeks until SEC schedule started, now i'm taking shit everwhich way I turn. If evan, woody and cox need midweek game time to get back on that horse, do it. have them split the game and take 3 innings each. work on beating every batter with each pitch until they feel like they can contribute during SEC play. I'm tired of losing these winable series, dammit. Although Sundays game was all on Cohen. Wasnt a damn thing our kids can do sitting of the damn bench...

HereComesTheSpiral
04-01-2013, 02:46 PM
Will Slaughter be behind the plate tomorrow night?

CadaverDawg
04-01-2013, 02:53 PM
Will Slaughter be behind the plate tomorrow night?

Hopefully so. But not if it means he will have to sit one against Florida. Ammo didn't do as bad offensively as I expected this past weekend, but he was far from good.

Ideally we will start catching Ammo midweek, and let Slauter catch SEC games. We should have done that the first two SEC series.

To be honest with you, it blows my mind that we don't have Daniel Garner catching on Slauter's days off instead of Ammo. Ammo is a Senior and will not be back next year just like Slauter...so it would be great to be getting Garner some experience back there so we aren't breaking in an inexperienced Freshman next season. Oh well, just another on the long list of boneheaded coaching decisions we've seen out of Cohen this season.

I really like Cohen a lot, but I have been at a loss for words with many of his decisions this year.

JHdawg
04-01-2013, 02:54 PM
I can tell you I pitched in the minor league ball in Memphis for to years long ago. And if you cant throw a strikes you aint ever gone make it as a picture. Got to learn to plant the seeds before you can smoke the tobaccy my coach uses to say just my opinion.

CadaverDawg
04-01-2013, 03:00 PM
I can tell you I pitched in the minor league ball in Memphis for to years long ago. And if you cant throw a strikes you aint ever gone make it as a picture. Got to learn to plant the seeds before you can smoke the tobaccy my coach uses to say just my opinion.

That's the crazy thing though, Woodruff was the guy that won the SEC Championship game for us last year. He can throw strikes, but he is a total Mark Wohlers head case right now it seems. Weird. I used to pitch and I had streaks of wildness when I was trying to overthrow or do too much, but nothing like what we're seeing out of Woodruff right now.

JHdawg
04-01-2013, 03:12 PM
=1

The Croom Diaries
04-01-2013, 03:35 PM
Sounds like Will Cox will be on the hill Tuesday night. He has really only had one bad start (+ a bad relief appearance) as opposed to Woody and Evan's multiple bad outings. I think it's a good idea to split things up for those 3 guys...maybe 3 innings for Cox, 2 for Woody and 2 for Evan. They are so talented, if we cannot use at least one of the 3 by the postseason whatever advantage we had with our deep starting rotation will have completely vanished (as it has right now) for good.

Also - sounds like Slauter will be back this weekend.

theloungeinleft
04-01-2013, 03:51 PM
Hopefully so. But not if it means he will have to sit one against Florida. Ammo didn't do as bad offensively as I expected this past weekend, but he was far from good.

Ideally we will start catching Ammo midweek, and let Slauter catch SEC games. We should have done that the first two SEC series.

To be honest with you, it blows my mind that we don't have Daniel Garner catching on Slauter's days off instead of Ammo. Ammo is a Senior and will not be back next year just like Slauter...so it would be great to be getting Garner some experience back there so we aren't breaking in an inexperienced Freshman next season. Oh well, just another on the long list of boneheaded coaching decisions we've seen out of Cohen this season.

I really like Cohen a lot, but I have been at a loss for words with many of his decisions this year.

Agreed. Garner should be catching when Slauter is not. I know it has been said multiple times, but Ammo does not need to be catching Woodruff if we want him back to what we know he can be. It has shown two out of the three of Woodruff's outings.

Spider-Man
04-01-2013, 04:54 PM
Cox will be starting tomorrow. I liked what I saw out of him earlier in the season. Really need to get his confidence back. I'll be disappointed if Woodruff doesn't throw a couple of innings tomorrow night. If we can get solid innings out of Pollo friday night and depending on if we have a lead, I think it would be a good idea to bring in Evan Mitchell. Evan throws hard and doesn't give up many hits. Possibly pitching with a lead could give him some confidence?

WeWillScrewItUp
04-01-2013, 07:19 PM
Hell if Ammo is going to catch one game a week let him catch Graveman. We saw this weekend that they work fairly well together. I want to see Slauter catch Woodruff.

msstate7
04-01-2013, 07:24 PM
Hell if Ammo is going to catch one game a week let him catch Graveman. We saw this weekend that they work fairly well together. I want to see Slauter catch Woodruff.

Ammo impressed me this weekend. He's a tougher out than I previously thought. He also has a great arm (much better than slauter). That said, I agree with slauter catching woodruff and any other questionable starters we throw out there.

engie
04-01-2013, 07:54 PM
That's the crazy thing though, Woodruff was the guy that won the SEC Championship game for us last year. He can throw strikes, but he is a total Mark Wohlers head case right now it seems. Weird. I used to pitch and I had streaks of wildness when I was trying to overthrow or do too much, but nothing like what we're seeing out of Woodruff right now.

I agree with your premise in the post -- and while South Alabama is a huge game from an RPI standpoint, I think I agree with just saying F it -- you guys are going. Let's tell all 3 of them on a pitch count and tell them in advance they are making that pitch count regardless of their success rate. Got to quit coddling them.

As for the quoted section, Woodruff's problems go a little deeper than just being mental IMO. He's got a mechanical breakdown with his front side flying open causing fastballs to sail and his breaking ball to hang(when it's generally the sharpest 1:7 breaker in the league IMO). This could have been caused by his elbow soreness -- or it could have caused the elbow soreness in the first place -- but either way, it's more significant than just the Evan Mitchell headcase wildness. In his case, it could potentially be a bad habit that needs to be broken before he can be effective again. At any rate, I'm not sure if that's on Butch or his summer league pitching coach -- but it is what it is.

Glad to see someone else coming around to my viewpoint about Garner as well. I'm really worried that his lack of experience is going to cost us in the field next year. Nevermind that he potentially brings another power bat to a lineup that desperately needs a power bat...

Will James
04-01-2013, 07:59 PM
Is Garner going to be one to leave for the pros after 3 years?

If yes, then not playing him is insane.

If no, then it would be a waste to play him now and burn the redshirt.

I seen it dawg
04-01-2013, 08:00 PM
I can tell you I pitched in the minor league ball in Memphis for to years long ago. And if you cant throw a strikes you aint ever gone make it as a picture. Got to learn to plant the seeds before you can smoke the tobaccy my coach uses to say just my opinion.

Ban this shit somebody

engie
04-01-2013, 08:19 PM
Is Garner going to be one to leave for the pros after 3 years?

If yes, then not playing him is insane.

If no, then it would be a waste to play him now and burn the redshirt.

He was the highest-rated highschool recruit we had coming in -- and was thought to be a top 10, potentially top 5 round draft risk ~ the same as Woodruff and Lindgren were the year before. Seems scouts got the impression that he was going to be very difficult to sign, so they shied away from him late in the process.

It's hard to say right now since we haven't seen him at all at this level, but coming in I would have said he was a 3yr lock...

Todd4State
04-01-2013, 08:29 PM
I had some technical difficulties- but I'm here now!

One thing about Will Cox that's different than the others- he has struggled but at least he's not walking people.

I am in agreement about Woodruff- even if we lose to South Alabama, it's not a bad loss from an RPI standpoint. A win is gravy and may make up for a SEC road loss down the road. Garner not playing is surprising to me as well- however, we have one of his high school teammates coming in next year named Austin Sexton who is a pitcher and they are good friends. By redshirting Garner, we may be able to keep those two together for the duration of their college careers. We also have a JUCO catcher coming in as well, and then another high school catcher from California named Gavin Collins who can play multiple positions.

msstate7
04-01-2013, 08:32 PM
I haven't keep up with baseball recruiting. Please tell me we have a 3b on the way.

Todd4State
04-01-2013, 08:37 PM
That's the crazy thing though, Woodruff was the guy that won the SEC Championship game for us last year. He can throw strikes, but he is a total Mark Wohlers head case right now it seems. Weird. I used to pitch and I had streaks of wildness when I was trying to overthrow or do too much, but nothing like what we're seeing out of Woodruff right now.

With all due respect, there's a lot more pressure on Woodruff than there probably was on you. He knows he should be the ace, and he knows him not performing is screwing our team over royally, and now even moreso with Lindgren out.

Stuff like that and what engie is talking about with his frontside flying open- I think that's the kind of in game stuff that Slauter probably would help him out with more than Ammirati.

Also, I highly doubt we will catch Slauter tomorrow which may be another reason why Woodruff isn't starting. He may DH and he may be able to come into the game late, though. In a perfect world, we will be up big tomorrow and we can use Woodruff in the 7-8th inning and hopefully finish out the game. It sounds like they are going to expand Holder's role and make him more of a two inning guy rather than one, and probably do the same with Bracewell. If it were me, I would be getting Shelly some more action as well. Another thing I would do is make sure that Trevor Fitts gets some work in tomorrow. Ideally at least three innings.

Todd4State
04-01-2013, 08:43 PM
I haven't keep up with baseball recruiting. Please tell me we have a 3b on the way.

We have Brent Rooker from Memphis who can play any corner position, but I think he is more of a first baseman/outfielder. Reid Humphries from Northwest Rankin is having a very good year and he can play third also- as can Gavin Collins who I just mentioned. Long term, and maybe short term, I think Humphries is the most likely candidate to be our third baseman of the future.

Ultimately, it's probably going to be in about three years:

1B- Rooker Jr.
2B- Dale Burdick So.
SS- Luke Alexander Fr.
3B- Humphries Jr.

We'll see what happens at SS next year- Frazier is rated as the second best college shortstop at this moment, so we could very well have Kyle Hann or Britton playing over there next year.

engie
04-01-2013, 08:44 PM
I haven't keep up with baseball recruiting. Please tell me we have a 3b on the way.

This is Gene's info on our signees. I'd project that Humphries could challenge for a starting spot at either 3b or SS next year. Looking through it, this upcoming signing class has potential to be ELITE if it doesn't get murdered by the draft...

CLASS OF 2013 MSU BASEBALL SIGNEES/COMMITMENTS (14)
Name Pos. Ht. Wt. B-T High School

Reid Humphreys, SS/RHP, 6-2, 180, R-R, Northwest Rankin High School (Flowood, MS)
Reid is considered one of the top players in the nation .... In 2012 he batted .360 with 7 home runs and 38 RBI. He also had a 6-3 record with a 1.85 ERA ... In 2011 he batted .412 with 3 home runs and 18 RBI in 24 games. He also had a 5-2 record with a 3.18 earned run average on the mound.... Reid played his summer ball with the prestigious summer travel team program, the Marucci Elite 16s.... His older brother, Tyler Moore, played baseball at Mississippi State and is currently playing in the Major Leagues .... Top Tools: Hitting For Average, Hitting With Power, Arm Strength, Defense.

Austin Sexton, RHP, 6-2, 165, R-R, Sparkman (AL) HS
One of the top players in the southeast as well as the nation .... Perfect Game, as of December, 2011, rated him the 90th best player in the class of 2013 ... He was a Perfect Game High Honorable Mention Underclass All American for 2011 and a second-team Perfect Game All American for 2012 ... Austin will play in the Perfect Game National Showcase and has received an invitation to perform in the East Coast Pro Showcase without having to go through the tryouts ... He chose MSU over offers from Auburn, Troy, South Alabama and UAB ... Austin plays summer ball with the Dulins Dodgers program ... ... Top Tools: Arm Strength, Outstanding Curveball, Control.

Dakota Hudson, RHP, 6-5, 190, R-R, Sequatchie County (Dunlap, TN) HS
One of the top players in the state of Tennessee ... Increased his two-seam fastball velocity from 80-84 to 89-90 miles per hour between his sophomore and junior seasons, and continues to have great projectability which should lead to even more velocity in the future. Since his junior season he has seen his fastball increase to the low-90s, topping out at 95 ... He chose MSU over an offer from Kennesaw State as well as interest from Tennessee, Kentucky and Troy ... Top Tools: Arm Strength, Control.

Brent Rooker, 1B, 6-4, 185, R-R, Evangelical Christian School (Cordova, TN) HS
One of the top class of 2013 players in the state of Tennessee ... As a junior (2012), he hit .450 with 15 doubles, 3 triples, 3 home runs and 38 RBI. He also stole 19-of-19 stolen bases ... A great athlete who runs in the 4.65 forty-yard dash range and has a 36-inch vertical leap ... He chose MSU over an offer from Memphis as well as interest

Vance Tatum, LHP, 6-4, 180, L-L, Southaven (MS) HS
One of the top pitchers in the state of Mississippi ... Consistently throws in the 86-87 mph range, topping out at 89 ... Chose MSU over offers from Ole Miss, Southern Miss, Tulane, Memphis and Air Force

Ben Hudspeth, RHP/C, 6-0, 200, R-R, Itawamba (MS) Community College
As a freshman, Ben earned NJCAA All-American honors after going 11-0 record with a 1.82 ERA.

Cody Walker, C, 5-11, 190, R-R, Chattahoochee Valley Community College (Phenix City, AL)
He hit .312 and had a .996 fielding percentage his freshman season at CVCC. He chose Mississippi State over Auburn, Alabama and Columbia State University.

Glenn Irby, LHP, 6-2, 205, L-L, Mars Hills Bible School (Florence, AL)
One of the top pitchers in the state of Alabama .... His fastball velocity is in the high-80s, topping out at 92 ... Chose MSU over Ole Miss, Tennessee, Kentucky, Samford

Jake Vickerson, OF, 5-10, 180, R-R, Shelton State (AL) Community College
One of the top junior college prospects in the state of Alabama ... As a freshman, he batted .381 in 194 at-bats, walking 30 times while striking out just 1 times. He stole 19 bases in 21 attmpts ... Chose MSU over Alabama

Dylan Ingram, 1B, 6-4, 210, R-R, Edgewood Academy (AL)
As a junior, he hit .541 with 69 RBI. He was the AISA player of the year as a junior ... Has outstanding power potential ... He is also an outstanding student with a 4.0+ gpa and a 28 act ... He chose MSU over over Auburn, Florida State and several others

Zach Houston, RHP, 6-5.5, 217, R-R, Poplarville (MS) HS
He throws an 89-92 mph sinking fastball ... He has been invited to numerous invitation-only events in Minnesota, New York, Ohio and Jupiter , FL ... He chose MSU over offers from Ole Miss and Southern Miss. Other schools showing interest were LSU, Alabama and Tulane

Avery Geyer, RHP/OF, 5-11, 195, R-R, Catholic HS (Pensacola, FL)
As a junior, he was 9-1 with a 1.45 ERA and struck out 112 in 77.1 innings .... He throws in the 88-92 mph range ... He chose MSU over offers from South Alabama and Southern Miss and interest from ULL, Tulane and UCF.

Jacob Billingsley, INF/RHP, 6-1, 180, R-R, Magnolia Heights (MS) School
As a pitcher, Billingsley throws in the mid-80s, topping out in the 87 to 88 mph range ... He had a 2.22 ERA and a 2-0 record while throwing 41 innings his junior season. Teams hit .180 against him.

Gavin Collins, C, 6-0, 195, R-R, El Toro HS (Lake Forest, CA)
One of the elite prospects in the nation .... Outstanding hitter who is rated a 9.5 out of a 10.0 scale by national scouting service Perfect Game ... Also an excellent defensive catcher with a very good arm. Has a 1.90 pop time to second base ... Has the potential to be a very high draft pick in the 2012 summer MLB draft ... Chose MSU over his other three finalists, Oregon, Arizona State and Fresno State.

JHdawg
04-01-2013, 08:55 PM
Agree about Woodruff Engine. Saw him pitch in High School at Wheeler. Reminded me of a young Tom Seaver. Now it looks like hes not getting any trunk rotation on his delivery at least that's what I'm seeing. (trying to do better on the spelling)

Coach34
04-01-2013, 09:01 PM
Who are we pitching tomorrow? I havent heard- been f'ing with T-ball this evening

CadaverDawg
04-01-2013, 09:04 PM
Who are we pitching tomorrow? I havent heard- been f'ing with T-ball this evening

Cox I think

HereComesTheSpiral
04-01-2013, 10:08 PM
We have Brent Rooker from Memphis who can play any corner position, but I think he is more of a first baseman/outfielder. Reid Humphries from Northwest Rankin is having a very good year and he can play third also- as can Gavin Collins who I just mentioned. Long term, and maybe short term, I think Humphries is the most likely candidate to be our third baseman of the future.

Ultimately, it's probably going to be in about three years:

1B- Rooker Jr.
2B- Dale Burdick So.
SS- Luke Alexander Fr.
3B- Humphries Jr.

We'll see what happens at SS next year- Frazier is rated as the second best college shortstop at this moment, so we could very well have Kyle Hann or Britton playing over there next year.
Henderson was an infielder coming out of high school. As much as I hate to say it, he might be the better option at second and Pirtle at short instead of Hann or Britton. Hann and Britton are just duds at the plate and Hann has minimal upside with his' glove.

Todd4State
04-01-2013, 10:26 PM
Henderson was an infielder coming out of high school. As much as I hate to say it, he might be the better option at second and Pirtle at short instead of Hann or Britton. Hann and Britton are just duds at the plate and Hann has minimal upside with his' glove.

I'm not the biggest fan of either Hann or Britton. I wouldn't be shocked if we go out and get a JUCO shortstop depending on what they think Frazier will do. I also wouldn't be surprised if Pirtle is moved to SS next year if Frazier leaves.

I doubt they will move Demarcus though because they feel like he is more productive if he is one spot and can concentrate on that spot- which of course is left field.

It's going to be an interesting offseason because we are bringing in way more than we are likely to lose and I'm expecting some attrition.

Will James
04-01-2013, 10:34 PM
I'm not the biggest fan of either Hann or Britton. I wouldn't be shocked if we go out and get a JUCO shortstop depending on what they think Frazier will do. I also wouldn't be surprised if Pirtle is moved to SS next year if Frazier leaves.

I doubt they will move Demarcus though because they feel like he is more productive if he is one spot and can concentrate on that spot- which of course is left field.

It's going to be an interesting offseason because we are bringing in way more than we are likely to lose and I'm expecting some attrition.

Why not Pirtle at SS and Detz at 2B?

Seems the most logical.

Todd4State
04-01-2013, 11:14 PM
Why not Pirtle at SS and Detz at 2B?

Seems the most logical.

That's a possibility and I'm sure it will be looked at in the fall like all of the other possible combinations. However, if Detz can't handle playing third base, I have a hard time seeing him being able to handle second. Third base is more of a reaction position whereas second is more of an athletic position and it may be just one of those weird cases where someone just fits better at a position. Although you would think that someone that is athletic enough to play a middle infield position would be able to react quickly enough to be adequate at third base from a reaction standpoint.

HereComesTheSpiral
04-02-2013, 07:32 AM
Here are the players I can see not being here next year due to attrition or leaving early:

Armstrong
Flair
Hann
Britton
Frazier
Renfroe
Fullerton
Woodruff might pull a Rick Ankiel and just walk away

I think some will leave to explore other places where they will actually get to see the field and others will just hang it up entirely

msstate7
04-02-2013, 07:35 AM
Is pirtle a prospect in the draft? Good 2b that can switch hit.

CadaverDawg
04-02-2013, 08:14 AM
Not saying anybody's wrong....but I disagree with those saying Woodruff's issue isn't mental....

In my opinion, if his hips are flying open and it was mechanical, then he would also be horrible with location in bullpen sessions. And if he was, then Butch wouldn't have sent him out there the last few times.

To me, he is simply overthrowing in live action and thinking Way too much. He seems to be psyching himself out, and then completely abandoning his mechanics as a result.

So while I agree there are mechanical flaws with him....I tend to think it all stems from his mentality and him being a total headcase right now.

Kinda like Bracewell Saturday....He didn't lose his mechanics, he was just overthrowing it appeared.

Our pitchers could learn a ton from watching Graveman....they all have great stuff, but they don't rely on it. Like Graveman said on Cohen's radio show lastnight.....He said it took him a while to realize that he has good stuff, so 88-89mph with location is better than 91-92 and losing some command.

But you guys could be right. I just think if it was a mechanical flaw, he would also be doing it in bullpens, not just live....and Butch would fix it. Not just run him out there with obvious flaws.

Spider-Man
04-02-2013, 08:20 AM
I agree Cadaver. From everything that Butch and Cohen have said, he has had great bullpens.

engie
04-02-2013, 10:22 AM
Nobody is saying his issue isn't mental -- we're just noting that it's mechanical too in the games.

WeWillScrewItUp
04-02-2013, 12:08 PM
What opinions do y'all have on inserting Woodruff into left field in an inning that they are planning on bringing him in for relief. Just bringing him in like they do C.T. where he doesn't have time to get worked up in the bullpen. I'm thinking get him a few short, solid outtings and it may make him realize he still has it. Then maybe we can get him into the starting role where we need him.

Spider-Man
04-02-2013, 12:38 PM
What opinions do y'all have on inserting Woodruff into left field in an inning that they are planning on bringing him in for relief. Just bringing him in like they do C.T. where he doesn't have time to get worked up in the bullpen. I'm thinking get him a few short, solid outtings and it may make him realize he still has it. Then maybe we can get him into the starting role where we need him.

Not a bad idea. Midweek games only though.

WeWillScrewItUp
04-02-2013, 12:49 PM
Not a bad idea. Midweek games only though.

I would like to see them get him going again. I'm starting to get worried that he may have lost the "it" factor that all pitchers have.

Uncle Ruckus
04-02-2013, 01:21 PM
was flair not recruited as a 3b?