Kick returns

[chef dixon]

Our longest this year was 29 yards (minus Turtle touchdown). Why did we continue to trot out that garbage? It has to change next year although I do expect Holloway to still be there. Please dear god put Gabe Myles back there. It is glaringly obvious that his running style fits the mold much better than what we have been doing.

[Bama_Dawg]

One Name: Donald Gray

Kid is electric...

[CadaverDawg]

Our longest this year was 29 yards (minus Turtle touchdown). Why did we continue to trot out that garbage? It has to change next year although I do expect Holloway to still be there. Please dear god put Gabe Myles back there. It is glaringly obvious that his running style fits the mold much better than what we have been doing.

It should be Will Redmond, Donald Gray, Fred Ross, Gabe Myles, or Jamoral Graham. Some combination of that group. I would lean towards Redmond and Gray because Redmond doesn't play offense so he wouldn't immediately go onto the field after returning....and I feel like Myles starts over Gray in the slot, so Gray wouldn't have to go right onto the field either. Hell, I would have no problem with making Gray our return specialist, and let him focus on KR and PR.

[fishwater99]

I think if we had a real ST coach, we might get some better production..
Mullen wants to do it all unfortunately.

[CadaverDawg]

I think if we had a real ST coach, we might get some better production..
Mullen wants to do it all unfortunately.

Definitely appears that way

[defiantdog]

I think if we had a real ST coach, we might get some better production..
Mullen wants to do it all unfortunately.

What coach would you get rid of to have a special teams coach?

[AROB44]

Mullen is pitiful, isn't he? SOB only won 10 games this year.....totally unacceptable. Sure wish he knew how to run a program better. *********

[Really Clark?]

Has anyone noticed that the more the message board posters think something is real, like Dan completely controls the defense now on top of OC, special teams (although he gave the reaponsibilty to someone else) and head coach, the more he has won? Why are we not demanding he take on more roles?

[CadaverDawg]

What coach would you get rid of to have a special teams coach?

Sallach

[CadaverDawg]

Has anyone noticed that the more the message board posters think something is real, like Dan completely controls the defense now on top of OC, special teams (although he gave the reaponsibilty to someone else) and head coach, the more he has won? Why are we not demanding he take on more roles?

Doesn't make him perfect. And it's not about thinking it's real....Mullen said himself that we run a certain scheme on D, and the D will always be good under him. That sounds like someone that is involved. If it talks like a duck, and walks like a duck....

I have no idea if he has a hand in the D or not, but for you same few to act like people can't possibly say anything negative or critical of our coach or his decisions, simply because of his record, is just as silly as any speculation you mention is. We won 10, and that's awesome....but it doesn't mean we can't discuss ways that we could turn 10 wins into 11+ in years to come. Doesn't mean anybody thinks we should get rid of Mullen.

If you can't say anything critical without having the sunshine police come and tell everyone how stupid they are, we might as well call Gene and see if we can work out a merger.

(And Clark, this post wasn't totally directed at you, just a few parts)

[Really Clark?]

It's not about people not being able to be critical it's taking some random post and it gets stated over and over like it is fact when there is no evidence behind it. And the head coach should have a say in how both sides of the ball is run. He is the one that gets saddled with all the positive and negativity. The thought of all of these other coaches are completely hands off to the other side of the ball of which they do not coach, is absurd. They are involved. It doesn't mean he is calling plays and different coaches have different styles but to a degree they have their hands in every aspect of the program. When they don't they lose the program and are out of a job. But this pounding that his fault the defense didn't preform because he is too involved has no factual basis and has only been expounded on since Collins left. Because there is still a segment of the fan base, that no matter what, thinks he should have been fired last year and now look at what's happening. He wins 10 games but let's tear down that as well. He has done something that we have only done twice in our entire history and historically has never been done this quick in our league. Or they are not sincere in their support of the program and just have to tear down. I'm critically of things to but dang the big picture is he is getting 90% of everything else right. Support instead of nit picking every single aspect of the job. They all fail. A lot. It's being human. But each time he has gotten things better and better.

And I'm not point this to just you either.

[AROB44]

You stated what I think very well. God...I hope I haven't become a member of the sunshine police. If it seems so, Cavaver, please accept my since apologies.

[CadaverDawg]

You stated what I think very well. God...I hope I haven't become a member of the sunshine police. If it seems so, Cavaver, please accept my since apologies.

Haha +1

[Tbonewannabe]

Mullen is pitiful, isn't he? SOB only won 10 games this year.....totally unacceptable. Sure wish he knew how to run a program better. *********

How does this have anything to do with us being one of the worst kick return teams in college football? The minute Robert Johnson took that kickoff out of the endzone I immediately told my buddy we wouldn't get it past the 20. Just because Dan is a great head coach doesn't mean he is always right on every decision. Was Robert Johnson the best player to put back there on kickoffs? I really don't know because I didn't see anyone else but I do know we were better off hoping for a touchback. It doesn't take a genius to figure out we sucked on kickoffs. I do know that after 12 games of not getting it to the 50 we could have rolled the dice with Fred Ross or Gabe Myles and not been worse off.

[engie]

By Football Outsiders FEI(st), we were the 48th best special teams this year overall. We were #102 last year.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feist

Memphis was #2.
UAB #3.

Shouldn't have to go any deeper than that to find a great fit, elite special teams' coach, that we don't have to overpay to get...

That said, we saw a decent improvement this year IMO. We've just got to cut out having a glaring weakness. Last year it was FGs, this year it was PRs.

[engie]

We were #22 in Kickoff Return Efficiency this year. We might not have taken anything to the house, but it wasn't terrible. Moving the kickoff location changed that part of the game. Just as much in putting the coverage team 5 yards closer to you -- as practically everyone having kickers that can put it through the endzone when they come up against an elite return guy...

Punt returns on the other hand were absolutely terrible. #109 of 128. That's been pretty beaten down though...

The TE coach should be the ST coach IMO. That's how practically all the big boys do it.

[Tbonewannabe]

We were #22 in Kickoff Return Efficiency this year. We might not have taken anything to the house, but it wasn't terrible. Moving the kickoff location changed that part of the game. Just as much in putting the coverage team 5 yards closer to you -- as practically everyone having kickers that can put it through the endzone when they come up against an elite return guy...

Punt returns on the other hand were absolutely terrible. #109 of 128. That's been pretty beaten down though...

The TE coach should be the ST coach IMO. That's how practically all the big boys do it.

Fred Ross was a complete change there on punt returns. FG kicking looked a lot better. I just don't understand why we never saw anyone else back there. It wasn't like you would be losing anything. Even when we got short kicks we never really got it past the 30 yard line.

[Todd4State]

It's not about people not being able to be critical it's taking some random post and it gets stated over and over like it is fact when there is no evidence behind it. And the head coach should have a say in how both sides of the ball is run. He is the one that gets saddled with all the positive and negativity. The thought of all of these other coaches are completely hands off to the other side of the ball of which they do not coach, is absurd. They are involved. It doesn't mean he is calling plays and different coaches have different styles but to a degree they have their hands in every aspect of the program. When they don't they lose the program and are out of a job. But this pounding that his fault the defense didn't preform because he is too involved has no factual basis and has only been expounded on since Collins left. Because there is still a segment of the fan base, that no matter what, thinks he should have been fired last year and now look at what's happening. He wins 10 games but let's tear down that as well. He has done something that we have only done twice in our entire history and historically has never been done this quick in our league. Or they are not sincere in their support of the program and just have to tear down. I'm critically of things to but dang the big picture is he is getting 90% of everything else right. Support instead of nit picking every single aspect of the job. They all fail. A lot. It's being human. But each time he has gotten things better and better.

And I'm not point this to just you either.

To be fair, the people have more evidence that Dan is involved than not. We know he does special teams. We know Dan has said that we will run the same defensive scheme.

[Todd4State]

We were #22 in Kickoff Return Efficiency this year. We might not have taken anything to the house, but it wasn't terrible. Moving the kickoff location changed that part of the game. Just as much in putting the coverage team 5 yards closer to you -- as practically everyone having kickers that can put it through the endzone when they come up against an elite return guy...

Punt returns on the other hand were absolutely terrible. #109 of 128. That's been pretty beaten down though...

The TE coach should be the ST coach IMO. That's how practically all the big boys do it.

Yep. Move Sallach behind the desk and hire Shibest from Memphis. He can coach TE/ST and is also a strong recruiter. And he was on Nutt's staff so he knows Mississippi and the SEC.

[chef dixon]

We were #22 in Kickoff Return Efficiency this year. We might not have taken anything to the house, but it wasn't terrible. Moving the kickoff location changed that part of the game. Just as much in putting the coverage team 5 yards closer to you -- as practically everyone having kickers that can put it through the endzone when they come up against an elite return guy...

Punt returns on the other hand were absolutely terrible. #109 of 128. That's been pretty beaten down though...

The TE coach should be the ST coach IMO. That's how practically all the big boys do it.

No stat is going to justify the fact we didn't return one longer than 29 yards. That is pathetic.

[Really Clark?]

To be fair, the people have more evidence that Dan is involved than not. We know he does special teams. We know Dan has said that we will run the same defensive scheme.

He is suppose to be involved. He is not running the defense though. That's a difference. And running the same defense a 4-3 base and talking about generic aggressive defenses is what he has talked about in the past in the scheme aspect. Now I'm sure he has had say in the more advanced game plans but that is not the same as running the defense. And the biggest evidence that it's been his DC defenses we have been running is the fact that our defenses have looked different over the years. The schemes have been different. Heck how many times did people complain about our use or overuse of 3-4 sets a couple of years ago? Diaz packages were different than Wilson's and Collins was different as well. If he is controlling as much as being inferred you would have had many more similarities year after year. Torbush-some awful gameplans that we have never rolled out again. So was that Dan? Diaz defense totally different. Wilson's first year everybody loved but his second year was totally different with different sets and packages than we have ever used before to that degree. Was that Dan? After 3 years did he take control and then that turn bad? Then he brings in Collins, we turn the corner last half of the year last year with a totally different scheme (gameplan and adjustments) from the year before. So was that Dan? There have been way too many differences over the years to say he is too controlling the way it's done. Too many differences and the evidence is what we can see on the field. But he does and should have involvment with defense.

[CadaverDawg]

Clark, Look at what you just posted. Do you see any trends? Ever thought the DC was running his own scheme at the beginning, and then Mullen meddles and the defense goes to shit?

Just like you see trends, others see trends. Doesn't make yours right and everybody else's wrong. You're overreacting to typical message board discussion and debate. Again, if you think everyone will sit around and sing Kumbaya, you're on the wrong site. Mullen is solid, but he needs to give up ST and let his DC run the defense. If he's already doing that...Yay!...if not, he needs to bc it appeared as if he made Collins get conservative this year. Not because people said it on this site...but because we have eyes and that's how it looked to MANY of us.

[Really Clark?]

Clark, Look at what you just posted. Do you see any trends? Ever thought the DC was running his own scheme at the beginning, and then Mullen meddles and the defense goes to shit?

Just like you see trends, others see trends. Doesn't make yours right and everybody else's wrong. You're overreacting to typical message board discussion and debate. Again, if you think everyone will sit around and sing Kumbaya, you're on the wrong site. Mullen is solid, but he needs to give up ST and let his DC run the defense. If he's already doing that...Yay!...if not, he needs to bc it appeared as if he made Collins get conservative this year. Not because people said it on this site...but because we have eyes and that's how it looked to MANY of us.

That wasn't how i was meaning it. I wasn't saying that he was meddling and it turned bad those second years. That's why I used a question mark but didn't make it clear enough. Sorry for that.

And what the discussion has evolved to is that he has ALWAYS been too controlling over the defense because of the speculation he did it the second half of this year. I don't have a problem with that discussion, as far as the end of this year is concerned. I can see how people come to that conclusion. I don't necessary agree but I didn't get involved with those discussions because it could have happened. But then we don't know if it was true or why it might have been true. But that is neither here or there. We don't have any facts that that was the case except for speculation. The problem I have is it being stated like it is a fact and then evolving to a fact he has always done it and is running off coordinators. Then trying to use the fact we have had 5 coordinators, then it has to be true. Never mind the evidence when you look at each case that this is not correct. But it still doesn't stop some for posting it like its fact. That's why I was going through each coordinator. There have been too many differences that was easily seen (also critiqued in the past for being totally different than what you saw last year, or this year, or under Diaz, etc) and never brought up until now that he was not letting the DC run the defenses. Just look at the defenses in the past or better yet review the past complaints and you see the differences between each coordinator.

[Todd4State]

He is suppose to be involved. He is not running the defense though. That's a difference. And running the same defense a 4-3 base and talking about generic aggressive defenses is what he has talked about in the past in the scheme aspect. Now I'm sure he has had say in the more advanced game plans but that is not the same as running the defense. And the biggest evidence that it's been his DC defenses we have been running is the fact that our defenses have looked different over the years. The schemes have been different. Heck how many times did people complain about our use or overuse of 3-4 sets a couple of years ago? Diaz packages were different than Wilson's and Collins was different as well. If he is controlling as much as being inferred you would have had many more similarities year after year. Torbush-some awful gameplans that we have never rolled out again. So was that Dan? Diaz defense totally different. Wilson's first year everybody loved but his second year was totally different with different sets and packages than we have ever used before to that degree. Was that Dan? After 3 years did he take control and then that turn bad? Then he brings in Collins, we turn the corner last half of the year last year with a totally different scheme (gameplan and adjustments) from the year before. So was that Dan? There have been way too many differences over the years to say he is too controlling the way it's done. Too many differences and the evidence is what we can see on the field. But he does and should have involvment with defense.

Manny is really the only one that I would say is noticeably different. He left before his second year, so there's no way to know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a more conservative defense in year two.

We have always been a bend but don't break defense under Dan.

You can say that Chris's defense was the same as Manny's, but even in 2011 we noticeably blitzed less than we did in 2010.

I think he probably gives the DC more of a leash in year one, and then he tightens up the reigns in year two, unless you believe it's a complete coincidence that EVERY DC we have had that made it to year two became noticeably more conservative.

[Really Clark?]

Manny is really the only one that I would say is noticeably different. He left before his second year, so there's no way to know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a more conservative defense in year two.

We have always been a bend but don't break defense under Dan.

You can say that Chris's defense was the same as Manny's, but even in 2011 we noticeably blitzed less than we did in 2010.

I think he probably gives the DC more of a leash in year one, and then he tightens up the reigns in year two, unless you believe it's a complete coincidence that EVERY DC we have had that made it to year two became noticeably more conservative.

Wilson also changed a lot of other schemes and gameplans that we never did before or after that second year. Some of it had to do with personel but remember all the complaints for running 3-4 defenses, Eulls playing DE, our great CB playing so far off the line. And Dan losing his mind on the coaches and the CALLS made during the game. Compare that to Collins last two years when we pressed and played man more. Our safety play and injuries changed something's this year and we had to because that was a problem but it still wasn't nowhere like either of Wilson's years. Lot of differences between just those two guys. And let's don't confuse a bend but don't break philosophy to scheme and gameplans. That is different. There are a lot of different ways to play bend don't break. Now I will acknowledge that we have had a good bit of cover 2, cover 3 etc type of zone philosophy but that may have as much to do with just the hires and the DC coaching trees. Not to mention how many guys have learned a lot of those concepts but that's just a quirk of a hire and the percentages of who is out there and what they have learned.

[Todd4State]

Wilson also changed a lot of other schemes and gameplans that we never did before or after that second year. Some of it had to do with personel but remember all the complaints for running 3-4 defenses, Eulls playing DE, our great CB playing so far off the line. And Dan losing his mind on the coaches and the CALLS made during the game. Compare that to Collins last two years when we pressed and played man more. Our safety play and injuries changed something's this year and we had to because that was a problem but it still wasn't nowhere like either of Wilson's years. Lot of differences between just those two guys. And let's don't confuse a bend but don't break philosophy to scheme and gameplans. That is different. There are a lot of different ways to play bend don't break. Now I will acknowledge that we have had a good bit of cover 2, cover 3 etc type of zone philosophy but that may have as much to do with just the hires and the DC coaching trees. Not to mention how many guys have learned a lot of those concepts but that's just a quirk of a hire and the percentages of who is out there and what they have learned.

Chris Wilson was the worst DC we have had under Dan to date. But it's the same scheme for the most part.

[Really Clark?]

Chris Wilson was the worst DC we have had under Dan to date. But it's the same scheme for the most part.

Chris Wilson was second worse to Torbush in my opinion because of Wilson's first year, he stayed closer to Diaz's designs but he also had a tremendous line that helped. But he ran more 3-4 base defenses (scheme) and had the cb positioned off the line more than any DC we have had before or after. There were a lot of scheme differences between Diaz, Wilson, and Collins. And Diaz and Collins were also different. Some similar philosophy you could say but scheme and definitely gameplans were very different. If Dan was controlling that as much as you are thinking and if he is as stubborn as people also infer, then there would not have been so many different schemes between the coordinators. Again, the bend but don't break label is not a scheme. Scheme has to do with actual play concepts.