Regarding TCU / MSU coaching (feedback appreciated)

[Dawgheadcheese]

In my opinion, TCU was one of the "best 4" teams this year (should have been ahead of FSU). They looked fantastic - and yet get this. MSU has out recruited TCU by a wide margin over the past 5 years. Per Scout re; TCU:

Current 2015 Class (avg 3.05 stars); 2014 Class (avg 2.96 stars, class ranked 38; 2013 Class (avg 2.87 stars, class ranked 43); 2012 Class (avg 2.83 stars, class ranked 38); 2011 Class (avg 2.88 stars, class ranked 28).

Which tells me this. Developing players and quality of coaches means everything. We have enough players to compete with anybody. Unfortunately, I just don't think we have a "national championship" caliber coaching staff. From Mullen on down. Obviously, OM doesn't either.

Sticking with MSU for now, Mullen seems to be somewhat immature, hard headed, lacks the ability to gel with his assistant coaches and has some glaring weaknesses in some areas of the game (special teams, halftime adjustments). You put the TCU coaching staff on our sideline and tell me that our team wouldn't be dominate - there is no doubt about it. So here is reality - as long as Mullen wins 7-9 games per season and keeps us in bowls, he is here as long as he wants to be. And I am not suggesting that we fire him. I'm just saying we must be realistic and understand what we are going to get. Mullen has been here long enough to begin "maturing" and improving if he has the ability to be a top tier head coach - but I don't see it. Over the past few years have we accumulated better athletes? Yes. But is he really head coach material? Just like with any company / organization, everyone is not cut out to be the boss. You either have it or you don't.

It will be very interesting to see how he handles filling the defensive coordinator hire. They need to pay whatever it takes to get a top notch guy in here. And none of the "rumored" names would be adequate in my opinion. This is the most pivotal time in the history of the MSU football program. I look forward to seeing what happens in the coming months.

[ShotgunDawg]

In my opinion, TCU was one of the "best 4" teams this year (should have been ahead of FSU). They looked fantastic - and yet get this. MSU has out recruited TCU by a wide margin over the past 5 years. Per Scout re; TCU:

Current 2015 Class (avg 3.05 stars); 2014 Class (avg 2.96 stars, class ranked 38; 2013 Class (avg 2.87 stars, class ranked 43); 2012 Class (avg 2.83 stars, class ranked 38); 2011 Class (avg 2.88 stars, class ranked 28).

Which tells me this. Developing players and quality of coaches means everything. We have enough players to compete with anybody. Unfortunately, I just don't think we have a "national championship" caliber coaching staff. From Mullen on down. Obviously, OM doesn't either.

Sticking with MSU for now, Mullen seems to be somewhat immature, hard headed, lacks the ability to gel with his assistant coaches and has some glaring weaknesses in some areas of the game (special teams, halftime adjustments). You put the TCU coaching staff on our sideline and tell me that our team wouldn't be dominate - there is no doubt about it. So here is reality - as long as Mullen wins 7-9 games per season and keeps us in bowls, he is here as long as he wants to be. And I am not suggesting that we fire him. I'm just saying we must be realistic and understand what we are going to get. Mullen has been here long enough to begin "maturing" and improving if he has the ability to be a top tier head coach - but I don't see it. Over the past few years have we accumulated better athletes? Yes. But is he really head coach material? Just like with any company / organization, everyone is not cut out to be the boss. You either have it or you don't.

It will be very interesting to see how he handles filling the defensive coordinator hire. They need to pay whatever it takes to get a top notch guy in here. And none of the "rumored" names would be adequate in my opinion. This is the most pivotal time in the history of the MSU football program. I look forward to seeing what happens in the coming months.


Here is my feedback:

I think you are being a prisoner of the moment. TCU went 4-8 and 2-7 in the Big 12 in 2013, and turned it around this year to have a great season.

MSU is every bit as capable of having the team TCU had this year, and maybe even better, but my point is that unless you are a top shelf recruiting program, it's nearly impossible to do it every year.

TCU also didn't lose their defensive coordinator prior to the game, didn't have many if any injuries, and, lastly, played a much weaker schedule that may have allowed them to be fresher and more confident.

IDK, but the fact that TCU went 4-8 last year should tell you that Gary Patterson doesn't have it all figured out either.

[engie]

IDK, but the fact that TCU went 4-8 last year should tell you that Gary Patterson doesn't have it all figured out either.
TCU still had a very good defense last year. Patterson changed his offensive philosophies 180* after last season and went to a wide open spread offense for the first time since he's been down there. Fired a 5 year co-OC and demoted a guy who got to TCU 3 years before Patterson did. Added Sonny Cumbie from Texas Tech as co-OC/QB coach and Dough Meacham from Oklahoma St as co-CO/inside receivers coach. Along with Boykin's rise, THAT is what changed their fortunes this year.

[Todd4State]

And if Dan figures out the DC spot, I think we could see a similar path with us. Heck, we won 10 games already and an elite DC might get us to 12.

[ShotgunDawg]

TCU still had a very good defense last year. Patterson changed his offensive philosophies 180* after last season and went to a wide open spread offense for the first time since he's been down there. Fired a 5 year co-OC and demoted a guy who got to TCU 3 years before Patterson did. Added Sonny Cumbie from Texas Tech as co-OC/QB coach and Dough Meacham from Oklahoma St as co-CO/inside receivers coach. Along with Boykin's rise, THAT is what changed their fortunes this year.

Good post.

It probably helped that other teams didn't have much film on TCU's new offense, but it does show that Patterson was humble enough to realize that changes in philosophy needed to be made. If Mullen would do this with our defense, perhaps we would be just as successful.

[Dawg496]

Good post.

It probably helped that other teams didn't have much film on TCU's new offense, but it does show that Patterson was humble enough to realize that changes in philosophy needed to be made. If Mullen would do this with our defense, perhaps we would be just as successful.

Great points. And while there is some reason (based on speculation albeit) to think he won't, he is still young. As he evolves hopefully he will come to the same realization as Patterson.

[MetEdDawg]

Great points. And while there is some reason (based on speculation albeit) to think he won't, he is still young. As he evolves hopefully he will come to the same realization as Patterson.

This to me is something a lot of people forget. Mullen is 42 years old with now 6 years of head coaching under his belt. Gary Patterson is 54 with 14 years under his belt at the same school. We can't forget that Mullen is still figuring this thing out and regardless of whether or not some like it, 6 years of head coaching doesn't mean you should have it all figured out. The problem many see is that most think Mullen thinks that he's got it all figured out. That's where the arrogance comes in to play.

Mullen needs time to figure out how to make our coaching structure and program work still. Every other HC in the SEC West came from another head coaching job at another school except for Mullen. He's also the youngest HC in the SEC West. All the other head coaches have reference points from their own experiences how to change and manipulate what they do. I know it's year 6, but Mullen is still learning the job and learning how to build this thing and that's ok. We are a hell of a lot better of because of him.

I said a long time ago on the other board that once Mullen got here it would take 10 years for the structure of our program to be built to sustain itself long term and I stand by that because we aren't done yet. There is still more for us to do that is crucial for this program long term. We need to put at least two Top 3 in the SEC West seasons together, we need to increase the yearly giving to the university considerably more, we need to continue building our brand on the national level, and we need to elevate salaries across the board to the levels of the other schools in the West. I think we are on our way but our entire program is still learning how to compete at this level.

[MabenMaroon]

And if Dan figures out the DC spot, I think we could see a similar path with us. Heck, we won 10 games already and an elite DC might get us to 12.

There you go, plus TCU did not just flash in the pan this year, they have finished in the top ten several times and won the Fiesta, Rose and Peach bowls in Patterson's tenure.

[Really Clark?]

There you go, plus TCU did not just flash in the pan this year, they have finished in the top ten several times and won the Fiesta, Rose and Peach bowls in Patterson's tenure.

And I think it's very important to remember that while Patterson did do all of that, he still had a big drop off year as well. The trajectory is going to have some peaks and valleys. As long as the program continues to move the floor up little by little so the bounce backs are easier for us to happen.

[dawgs]

TCU still had a very good defense last year. Patterson changed his offensive philosophies 180* after last season and went to a wide open spread offense for the first time since he's been down there. Fired a 5 year co-OC and demoted a guy who got to TCU 3 years before Patterson did. Added Sonny Cumbie from Texas Tech as co-OC/QB coach and Dough Meacham from Oklahoma St as co-CO/inside receivers coach. Along with Boykin's rise, THAT is what changed their fortunes this year.

Tcu went all-in on the HUNH soread option offense. We (mullen) seem scared to go full out HUNH and I don't know why. When you don't have the recruits of Bama and lsu and auburn, it's the best way to consistently compete and beat them. If places a ton of pressure on the D. We run a similar style of offensive sets and playcalling, but we don't pressure them with tempo. Just do it already, dan.

[Fred Garvin]

This to me is something a lot of people forget. Mullen is 42 years old with now 6 years of head coaching under his belt. Gary Patterson is 54 with 14 years under his belt at the same school. We can't forget that Mullen is still figuring this thing out and regardless of whether or not some like it, 6 years of head coaching doesn't mean you should have it all figured out. The problem many see is that most think Mullen thinks that he's got it all figured out. That's where the arrogance comes in to play.

Mullen needs time to figure out how to make our coaching structure and program work still. Every other HC in the SEC West came from another head coaching job at another school except for Mullen. He's also the youngest HC in the SEC West. All the other head coaches have reference points from their own experiences how to change and manipulate what they do. I know it's year 6, but Mullen is still learning the job and learning how to build this thing and that's ok. We are a hell of a lot better of because of him.

I said a long time ago on the other board that once Mullen got here it would take 10 years for the structure of our program to be built to sustain itself long term and I stand by that because we aren't done yet. There is still more for us to do that is crucial for this program long term. We need to put at least two Top 3 in the SEC West seasons together, we need to increase the yearly giving to the university considerably more, we need to continue building our brand on the national level, and we need to elevate salaries across the board to the levels of the other schools in the West. I think we are on our way but our entire program is still learning how to compete at this level.

None of these programs currently in the playoffs got here in 6 years. Their ascent has been 15+ years or decades in the making. This year was great year and we have to continue to look to the long term. The pieces are in place. Hopefully, the program will continue to make the right strategic decisions.

[MabenMaroon]

None of these programs currently in the playoffs got here in 6 years. Their ascent has been 15+ years or decades in the making. This year was great year and we have to continue to look to the long term. The pieces are in place. Hopefully, the program will continue to make the right strategic decisions.

Excellent post!
As long as it continues in the positive direction and it seems to be. I am all in, both spirit and with what ever I can do financially ( maybe I can win the lottery and and make a substantial donation )

[Political Hack]

we won 10 games because Mullen can't coach.***

[MetEdDawg]

we won 10 games because Mullen can't coach.***

This is what I love about some of our fan base and I know obviously you are joking but there are others that truly believe Mullen held us back. Look at the teams in the playoffs. Bama has a long storied history with multiple national titles and recent high level success. Ohio State has a long storied history and have 10+ wins in 11 of the last 13 seasons. Oregon has more money than they know what to do with and they've won 10+ games in 6 straight seasons and been to a national title. FSU has been a storied program with national titles, a legendary coach, four 10+ win seasons in the last 5, a national title last year, and by my count a bowl appearance in 31 straight seasons. And all are consistent finishers in the Top 5 and 10 in recruiting.

We have nothing close to this, but we are pissed Mullen couldn't get there at MSU this year? He's arrogant, he's awful, he's underachieved. By whose standards? Certainly not MSU's standards. In order to get to the top you have to establish yourself as a top team. It's culture driven. It's attitude driven. It's historically driven. And it takes time. And unfortunately, many don't want to acknowledge we have don't yet have what we need to compete on the national level. But again it takes time and we've already seen the changes he's made pay off.

It takes time to build a winner, especially in the SEC. It takes time to change the culture, change the perception, change the attitude, and build the foundation necessary to succeed. Mullen has done that. Does he rub some people the wrong way? Yeah he does. But so does most every other successful coach that thinks he's the best and strives to do everything possible to get to the top. Mullen is building a winner.

[dawgs]

I'm happy where mullen has gotten us and I'm excited about tthe future. I'm happy with 90% of what mullen's done for us. But there are a handful of glaring areas that could be improved: 1) be more aggressive consistently on both sides of the ball, 2) commit to HUNH because he puts the opposing defense in a reaction mode and wears them out (f$u's D was completely gassed halfway thru the 3rd quarter last night), 3) be a better delegator of duties at times, and 4) we need to step up our OL recruiting game.