Scott......

[Liverpooldawg]

It's time, NOW.

[msstate7]

I've been tweeting him this all during this collapse

[CadaverDawg]

It was time when I had to google "who the **** is Rick Ray?" on the day he was hired. It was time when he used the word "like" a million times in his opening press conference like a high school girl. Scott needs to apologize for this shitball of a hire.

Seriously, this is the kind of hire that can get your ass fired as an AD. He needs to fire Ray TONIGHT, and if he screws up the next hire....

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4711048/well-bye-o.gif

[MabenMaroon]

Not now, yesterday!

[Liverpooldawg]

The hire was a direct result of the when and how of the firing. You can't blame Scott for the hire. I will always blame him for the circumstances it was made in. The fact that we had to pay a coach with the background of Ray what we payed him to come says it all. If we had waited ONE year it would have been different. Suicide is never pretty and the aftermath is worse.

[archdog]

Well stans couldnt win and Ray pretty much destroyed us as a program the rest of the way. Time to hit reset and take the rest of the year as an opportunity to get a new philosophy installed. Go ahead and forfeit the next months games after you make the change. Get a new philosophy installed and come out in Feb as a new team.

[MetEdDawg]

I just can't believe it got this bad. Not a buzzer beater against McNeese State. We lost by 19. Forget missing Ware. We should have been able to win this game without him. But we lost by 19.

I was a big Ray fan but now it's all too clear. He has to go and he has to go now and we have to put on the full court press to bring in someone willing to turn this thing around. We need to shell out the money and see if someone good will leave a mid major to come and compete in the SEC which outside of UK and UF is very much wide open. Or get a good assistant from a top tier program and see if they will take the reigns. There are plenty out there that are highly qualified. Question is will they want to rebuild us from the gutter of the SEC.

[CadaverDawg]

The hire was a direct result of the when and how of the firing. You can't blame Scott for the hire. I will always blame him for the circumstances it was made in. The fact that we had to pay a coach with the background of Ray what we payed him to come says it all. If we had waited ONE year it would have been different. Suicide is never pretty and the aftermath is worse.

Bull shit "I can't blame Scott". I AM and I SHOULD blame Scott. He hired Ray. If you want to keep giving him a pass on the hire, that's fine...but you're wrong to say "you can't blame Scott". We could have hired an experienced D2 head coach or several experienced assistants from good teams ahead of Rick Ray. Your notion of "Ray was the best we could get", is horse shit. Hell, even USM was hiring better coaches.

We couldn't have gotten Shaka Smart, but hell, keeping Robert Kirby, Phil Cunningham, or even Meo or one of Stans' lil kids would have made more sense than Rick Ray. That is on Scott.

[Liverpooldawg]

Stans won 20 games his last year. That is how people outside of the MSU family saw it. I had a lot of people I know outside of Miss ask me if we were crazy. We saw ourselves as a basketball power being held back by a bad coach. Most outsiders saw us as doing better than we should have. That was the buzz around the Ray hire, like it or not. Nobody wanted our job because they saw what was seen by outsiders as unrealistic expectations. If Stans had flopped the next year, and he very well may have, then you could fire him without the unrealistic expectations tag. That was my stamce then no I have seen nothing to change that.

As for Ray himself, I feel sorry for him. He never had a chance here really. At least he has been well paid.

[RougeDawg]

Never been a fan of Ray, because I can say I saw this coming from day 1. Ive been called every name under the sun the last 3 years, including racist, because I have constantly and consistently pointed out his insufficiencies. However I was wrong about one thing regarding Ray. I knew it was an inadequate hire but I never thought he would be this horrible.

[BeardoMSU]

Stans won 20 games his last year. That is how people outside of the MSU family saw it. I had a lot of people I know outside of Miss ask me if we were crazy. We saw ourselves as a basketball power being held back by a bad coach. Most outsiders saw us as doing better than we should have. That was the buzz around the Ray hire, like it or not. Nobody wanted our job because they saw what was seen by outsiders as unrealistic expectations. If Stans had flopped the next year, and he very well may have, then you could fire him without the unrealistic expectations tag. That was my stamce then no I have seen nothing to change that.

As for Ray himself, I feel sorry for him. He never had a chance here really. At least he has been well paid.

The way Stans team completely quit down the stretch when it mattered most was the tipping point that last year. We were something like #15 in the country, then we lost 5 straight games that included Auburn, LSU, Bama, and Georgia. Then we come out completely flat in an absolutely must win game in the SEC tourney and lose to a shitty Georgia, for the second time that season. It was time.

[Liverpooldawg]

Bull shit "I can't blame Scott". I AM and I SHOULD blame Scott. He hired Ray. If you want to keep giving him a pass on the hire, that's fine...but you're wrong to say "you can't blame Scott". We could have hired an experienced D2 head coach or several experienced assistants from good teams ahead of Rick Ray. Your notion of "Ray was the best we could get", is horse shit. Hell, even USM was hiring better coaches.

We couldn't have gotten Shaka Smart, but hell, keeping Robert Kirby, Phil Cunningham, or even Meo or one of Stans' lil kids would have made more sense than Rick Ray. That is on Scott.


From what I have ALWAYS heard, and I have a VERY good source on basketball, we had no chance at anyone of a higher stature than Ray. Nobody who was anybody at all wanted the job. We had to pay way over market to even get Ray. The lists that were being bandied about on our boards were pure fantasy. Don't think we didn't try. We committed suicide with the basketball program. I kills me to see where it is, but we did it to ourselves.

[Liverpooldawg]

The way Stans team completely quit down the stretch when it mattered most was the tipping point that last year. We were something like #15 in the country, then we lost 5 straight games that included Auburn, LSU, Bama, and Georgia. Then we come out completely flat in an absolutely must win game in the SEC tourney and lose to a shitty Georgia, for the second time that season. It was time.
I sure do miss "must win" games.

[CadaverDawg]

From what I have ALWAYS heard, and I have a VERY good source on basketball, we had no chance at anyone of a higher stature than Ray. Nobody who was anybody at all wanted the job. The lists that were being bandied about on our boards were pure fantasy. Don't think we didn't try. We committed suicide with the basketball program. I kills me to see where it is, but we did it to ourselves.

Think about what you're saying. You are wrong....I'm sorry....but you are wrong. We could have easily gotten Kenny Payne, but Stricklin and Keenum passed. Payne was better than Ray, so you are wrong. Not to mention, think about how many people have better resumes than Rick Ray! He wasn't even the first assistant at Clemson! To act like we "couldn't get anybody better than Ray" is just totally false, and I can't believe I keep having to tell you that.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just trying to tell you that you are clearly wrong on this one, so please stop saying that and defending Scott. He could have done better, but he thought he would be "smart Scott" and think outside the box, and make a name for himself....he bombed.

[BeardoMSU]

I sure do miss "must win" games.

And I bet you miss always losing them too.....

[ScottH]

It would be fascinating to understand the actual hiring process.

We are talking about an almost million dollar a year coaching gig in the SEC with a 4 year contract. That lends itself to plenty of potential candidates even with the issues the program apparently had. Whether they were approached or not is another matter.

[Liverpooldawg]

Think about what you're saying. You are wrong....I'm sorry....but you are wrong. We could have easily gotten Kenny Payne, but Stricklin and Keenum passed. Payne was better than Ray, so you are wrong. Not to mention, think about how many people have better resumes than Rick Ray! He wasn't even the first assistant at Clemson! To act like we "couldn't get anybody better than Ray" is just totally false, and I can't believe I keep having to tell you that.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just trying to tell you that you are clearly wrong on this one, so please stop saying that and defending Scott. He could have done better, but he thought he would be "smart Scott" and think outside the box, and make a name for himself....he bombed.

The names you are dropping were totally on the fantasy list. My source is very good when it comes to basketball. The truth on this ain't something any of us want to hear, but it's the truth. We committed suicide. We had to pay over market just to get who we got.

[Liverpooldawg]

And I bet you miss always losing them too.....

Not at all, but losing them is better than not even sniffing one. Wake me up when we get back to where we were under Stans.

[Coach34]

Stans won 20 games his last year. That is how people outside of the MSU family saw it. I had a lot of people I know outside of Miss ask me if we were crazy. We saw ourselves as a basketball power being held back by a bad coach. Most outsiders saw us as doing better than we should have.
.

No- our AD sat down with coach after coach and told them we would no longer recruit the way Stands did in this program. Thats why we got turned down 5-6 times. It had zero to do with any perception outside the program

[CadaverDawg]

The names you are dropping were totally on the fantasy list. My source is very good when it comes to basketball. The truth on this ain't something any of us want to hear, but it's the truth. We committed suicide. We had to pay over market just to get who we got.

What names did I drop? Kenny Payne? Your sources must not be what you think, because it is well known that we were about to hire Payne until Scott and Keenum pussed out. You are so wrong on this to think we couldn't get anyone better than Ray. It was nothing more than Scott trying to act smarter than everyone and trying to make a name for himself. He screwed up when he could have hired a much better coach. If you choose to believe a bad source over the truth, that's your choice....but please quit trying to mislead our casual fans into believing Rick Ray was the best we could hire....he was not. You are wrong on this one. Before running your mouth about it, maybe you should look back at just how unqualified Rick Ray was for our job. You claiming Ray was the best we could get tells me you don't really understand how far down any coaching list he was. In fact, I would have only been somewhat excited if we had hired Ray as OUR 3rd assistant.

[Liverpooldawg]

No- our AD sat down with coach after coach and told them we would no longer recruit the way Stands did in this program. Thats why we got turned down 5-6 times. It had zero to do with any perception outside the program
LOL! I would take that line too.

[CadaverDawg]

No- our AD sat down with coach after coach and told them we would no longer recruit the way Stands did in this program. Thats why we got turned down 5-6 times. It had zero to do with any perception outside the program

Exactly. Acting like Ray was our best option is a joke.

[MetEdDawg]

No- our AD sat down with coach after coach and told them we would no longer recruit the way Stands did in this program. Thats why we got turned down 5-6 times. It had zero to do with any perception outside the program

This is why this next hire is extremely important. We have to get back into the AAU circuit, we just have to have a coach that can do that while controlling the program at the same time.

Like I've said, I can see why this route was appealing to Stricklin as far as changing our image. But it didn't make college basketball sense and I hope Scott sees that and changes. We can't go back down this no AAU road again because we just can't compete by doing that. We limit the number of recruits we have access to by doing this and that kills recruiting. I hope Scott changes his philosophy on this because if he doesn't, this next hire could be wash, rinse, repeat of these last 2 1/2 years.

[drunkernhelldawg]

The hire was a direct result of the when and how of the firing. You can't blame Scott for the hire. I will always blame him for the circumstances it was made in. The fact that we had to pay a coach with the background of Ray what we payed him to come says it all. If we had waited ONE year it would have been different. Suicide is never pretty and the aftermath is worse.

That's what I think too. Giving up a program that dominated our region for a decade is the opposite of historically smart. So many people feared that letting Stans stay another year would give him the chance to turn it around. Then they'd still be "stuck" with Stans. So there's your bright side! Seriously, the program should always be analyzed from the inside. Letting outsiders' opinions carry so much weight is what I'll never understand.

[Liverpooldawg]

What names did I drop? Kenny Payne? Your sources must not be what you think, because it is well known that we were about to hire Payne until Scott and Keenum pussed out. You are so wrong on this to think we couldn't get anyone better than Ray. It was nothing more than Scott trying to act smarter than everyone and trying to make a name for himself. He screwed up when he could have hired a much better coach. If you choose to believe a bad source over the truth, that's your choice....but please quit trying to mislead our casual fans into believing Rick Ray was the best we could hire....he was not. You are wrong on this one. Before running your mouth about it, maybe you should look back at just how unqualified Rick Ray was for our job. You claiming Ray was the best we could get tells me you don't really understand how far down any coaching list he was. In fact, I would have only been somewhat excited if we had hired Ray as OUR 3rd assistant.
Whatever makes you feel better. I understand EXACTLY how far down the lists Ray was. I'm not sure you know just how far down he was. He was farther down than you can remotely imagine. Like I said, NOBODY wanted our job, NOBODY. I don't have to defend my source. If you knew what my source is you wouldn't question it either. Before you ask I can't say any thing about it. It ain't an employee of MSU and that's as far as I can go. Blast away at that. I admit it invites it. Ray was the best we could do at the time. Maybe enough time has passed that we can do better this time. The thing that scares me is I'm not sure it has yet. We are about to find out. Richard and Stans proved you can win here in basketball if you work your butt off.

[CadaverDawg]

Whatever makes you feel better. I understand EXACTLY how far down the lists Ray was. I'm not sure you know just how far down he was. He was farther down than you can remotely imagine. Like I said, NOBODY wanted our job, NOBODY. I don't have to defend my source. If you knew what my source is you wouldn't question it either. Before you ask I can't say any thing about it. It ain't an employee of MSU and that's as far as I can go. Blast away at that. I admit it invites it. Ray was the best we could do at the time. Maybe enough time has passed that we can do better this time. The thing that scares me is I'm not sure it has yet. We are about to find out. Richard and Stans proved you can win here in basketball if you work your butt off.

I don't want to know your source, because your source is wrong. Period. Not because it makes me feel better...but because he is wrong. Is your source so bad that he didn't know about Kenny Payne being a done deal, and Keenum not giving the thumbs up? Do you think Kenny Payne is better than Ray? Like I said, your source is wrong. We could have hired Jackson State's coach and been better off then Ray...so you are saying we couldn't hire any assistant that was considered a 1st or 2nd assistant? We couldn't have hired Kenny Payne? We couldn't have hired a D2 head coach? Any of them? We couldn't have hired the best HC from the SWAC? Again, think about what you're saying and you will see just how very wrong you...err your source....is.

But whatever, believe what you want. I just want to make sure our casual fans don't buy that crap you're selling.

[MabenMaroon]

I don't quite understand what the hell the AAU circuit, recruiting it or not has to do with any of this malaise. Everyone of our current players played AAU ball and our current signees did as well. Doesn't Malik Newman play on the AAU circuit? I think it just boils down to the fact that Coach Ray doesn't have the necessary skills to be a head coach and run an SEC program. He might be a good basketball technician or skills instructor, I don't know. But it has become painfully obvious the head coaching package is not there. He has recruited some excellent athletic slashers and some decent power forwards but there aren't any shooters, ball handlers or rebounders. And there aren't any on the way, just more slashers and a power forward.

Edit: I should say decent tall 3's not power forwards ....

[MetEdDawg]

I don't quite understand what the hell the AAU circuit, recruiting it or not has to do with any of this malaise. Everyone of our current players played AAU ball and our current signees did as well. Doesn't Malik Newman play on the AAU circuit? I think it just boils down to the fact that Coach Ray doesn't have the necessary skills to be a head coach and run an SEC program. He might be a good basketball technician or skills instructor, I don't know. But it has become painfully obvious the head coaching package is not there. He has recruited some excellent athletic slashers and some decent power forwards but there aren't any shooters, ball handlers or rebounders. And there aren't any on the way, just more slashers and a power forward.

Edit: I should say decent tall 3's not power forwards ....

There's a difference in playing the AAU game. A lot of kids play AAU ball. But outside of Malik, we aren't going after the kids that would require a little "extra effort" on our part. That's where the difference is with our current approach. So it's not so much staying away from the AAU circuit, it's staying away from some of the extra curricular activities that come with the higher profile players that are on the AAU circuit.

[Liverpooldawg]

I don't want to know your source, because your source is wrong. Period. Not because it makes me feel better...but because he is wrong. Is your source so bad that he didn't know about Kenny Payne being a done deal, and Keenum not giving the thumbs up? Do you think Kenny Payne is better than Ray? Like I said, your source is wrong. We could have hired Jackson State's coach and been better off then Ray...so you are saying we couldn't hire any assistant that was considered a 1st or 2nd assistant? We couldn't have hired Kenny Payne? We couldn't have hired a D2 head coach? Any of them? We couldn't have hired the best HC from the SWAC? Again, think about what you're saying and you will see just how very wrong you...err your source....is.

But whatever, believe what you want. I just want to make sure our casual fans don't buy that crap you're selling.
I'm sure you "know" about what you are posting. If all I had to go on was what "everybody" knew I would would believe it. I "knew" it for a while too. The real truth is ugly. Suicide always is. Let's hope the stigma has faded.

[maroonmania]

Think about what you're saying. You are wrong....I'm sorry....but you are wrong. We could have easily gotten Kenny Payne, but Stricklin and Keenum passed. Payne was better than Ray, so you are wrong. Not to mention, think about how many people have better resumes than Rick Ray! He wasn't even the first assistant at Clemson! To act like we "couldn't get anybody better than Ray" is just totally false, and I can't believe I keep having to tell you that.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just trying to tell you that you are clearly wrong on this one, so please stop saying that and defending Scott. He could have done better, but he thought he would be "smart Scott" and think outside the box, and make a name for himself....he bombed.

All I know is with Stansbury, apparently (per sources here) with the majority of the team doing drugs, we only had one season with less than 20 wins in his last 6 and we had 17 in that one. 20 wins seems like a pipe dream now. I fully blame Strick and Keenum for this. Are you telling me they didn't check the attractiveness of the job until AFTER they gave Rick his walking papers? If they did that then it was full blown amateurish. I would have been all for giving Rick one more year with no Sidney around to see if things could have improved internally with the program if I had known no other decent coach wanted the job. No, we were never going to make a Final Four run with Stans but we were never going to be a total embarrassment on the court either.

[RiverCityDawg]

Do you think Kenny Payne is better than Ray?

Obviously we know now that the answer is that he couldn't be worse than Ray, but at the time of the hiring it wan't so clear. Ray was the top assistant at at an average program. Payne was the 3rd assistant at the best program. It's not like it was a no brainer. The fact that Payne was tied to shady recruiting practices pushed it the other way. If Scott's choices were Ray or Payne, I'm not sure it helps the argument that we still had some other good options out there. I remember someone else saying Mike Davis. If that's not the bottom of the list, where is it? Ask Indiana or UAB folks about Davis.

As far as perception outside the program, I disagree with Liverpool. I don't live in MS and I can tell you we were the laughing stock of college basketball. Everything about Renardo Sidney was embarrassing and it characterized the program in many's eyes, including the national media who wrote story after story about our program being a "dumpster fire".

I liked Stans and supported him to the bitter end…hell, I was a Rick's Rowdy (before it wen't to crap), but it was over and this "suicide" talk is garbage…it was more like death by cancer.

This thing is so bad... Stans, Scott and Ray are ALL partially responsible.

[Coach34]

Obviously we know now that the answer is that he couldn't be worse than Ray, but at the time of the hiring it wan't so clear. Ray was the top assistant at at an average program. Payne was the 3rd assistant at the best program. It's not like it was a no brainer. The fact that Payne was tied to shady recruiting practices pushed it the other way. If Scott's choices were Ray or Payne, I'm not sure it helps the argument that we still had some other good options out there. I remember someone else saying Mike Davis. If that's not the bottom of the list, where is it? Ask Indiana or UAB folks about Davis.

As far as perception outside the program, I disagree with Liverpool. I don't live in MS and I can tell you we were the laughing stock of college basketball. Everything about Renardo Sidney was embarrassing and it characterized the program in many's eyes, including the national media who wrote story after story about our program being a "dumpster fire".

I liked Stans and supported him to the bitter end…hell, I was a Rick's Rowdy (before it wen't to crap), but it was over and this "suicide" talk is garbage…it was more like death by cancer.

This thing is so bad... Stans, Scott and Ray are ALL partially responsible.

good post

[shannondawg]

And that from an AD that spent some of his years in the Kentucky program.


No- our AD sat down with coach after coach and told them we would no longer recruit the way Stands did in this program. Thats why we got turned down 5-6 times. It had zero to do with any perception outside the program

[BossDawg]

From what I have ALWAYS heard, and I have a VERY good source on basketball, we had no chance at anyone of a higher stature than Ray. Nobody who was anybody at all wanted the job.

I'm not arguing at all with you, I'm just legitimately curious. But why? What's so unappealing about the basketball program? I've always felt like State basketball was at least in the top half of the conference. Decent-to-great facilities, plus Stans and Williams proved that winning at State wasn't some monumental task. So why wouldn't anybody want the job?

[Maroon Blood]

Stans won 20 games his last year. That is how people outside of the MSU family saw it. I had a lot of people I know outside of Miss ask me if we were crazy. We saw ourselves as a basketball power being held back by a bad coach. Most outsiders saw us as doing better than we should have. That was the buzz around the Ray hire, like it or not. Nobody wanted our job because they saw what was seen by outsiders as unrealistic expectations. If Stans had flopped the next year, and he very well may have, then you could fire him without the unrealistic expectations tag. That was my stamce then no I have seen nothing to change that.

As for Ray himself, I feel sorry for him. He never had a chance here really. At least he has been well paid.

I agree wholeheartedly with Liverpooldawg. I believe Stans would have weathered the storm, and we would have won 20+ games THIS year. With that said, I have been a supporter of Rick Ray. I do feel bad for him.

[MadDawg]

The way Stans team completely quit down the stretch when it mattered most was the tipping point that last year. We were something like #15 in the country, then we lost 5 straight games that included Auburn, LSU, Bama, and Georgia. Then we come out completely flat in an absolutely must win game in the SEC tourney and lose to a shitty Georgia, for the second time that season. It was time.

hahahahahaha

[MadDawg]

And I bet you miss always losing them too.....

Losing must win games is 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 X better than the absolute shit we have now.

[BLITZII]

I would rather sink our money into Football, which generates most of our revenue, and baseball which is the best in the nation!

[cheewgumm]

go back to " recruiting " . No other choice. And if we are going to " recruit" the right way , then hire a D2 x and o master, or hire Richard Williams again .

If we hire Williams we'll play the hell out of some D... I guarantee you that.

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

Obviously we know now that the answer is that he couldn't be worse than Ray, but at the time of the hiring it wan't so clear. Ray was the top assistant at at an average program. Payne was the 3rd assistant at the best program. It's not like it was a no brainer. The fact that Payne was tied to shady recruiting practices pushed it the other way. If Scott's choices were Ray or Payne, I'm not sure it helps the argument that we still had some other good options out there. I remember someone else saying Mike Davis. If that's not the bottom of the list, where is it? Ask Indiana or UAB folks about Davis.

As far as perception outside the program, I disagree with Liverpool. I don't live in MS and I can tell you we were the laughing stock of college basketball. Everything about Renardo Sidney was embarrassing and it characterized the program in many's eyes, including the national media who wrote story after story about our program being a "dumpster fire".

I liked Stans and supported him to the bitter end…hell, I was a Rick's Rowdy (before it wen't to crap), but it was over and this "suicide" talk is garbage…it was more like death by cancer.

This thing is so bad... Stans, Scott and Ray are ALL partially responsible.

This post is a million percent spot on. The national media had a field day with us for more than just that last year. The coaches in our own league had such a high opinion of our coach at the time, that they wouldn't even vote him Coach of the Year when we won the damn SEC. If anything we waited a year TOO LONG, not a year too short. Hell, our own fans spent entire basketball seasons discussing mythical things such as "Moultrie knee", because unfortunately that sort of crap was the norm for our program. No one was terrified he'd "turn it around". Hell, that's what we wanted: for the program to be turned around. We all still do.

We clearly made the wrong hire. Whether it was because no one wanted to jump into the sewer to try and turn us around, because we told all the coaches we wouldn't play dirty in recruiting, because we pissed off all the national coaching associations, or because Scott just took a list of names in a hat and drew one at random and then found a coach with the next closest name to what he drew; I have no idea. Regardless of how it happened, we should find ourselves in a place now where coaches can see the ability to come in and get things headed in the right direction. The next hire will be critical, for sure.

[BLITZII]

I do realize it was a wreck but you also have to consider that basketball in the SEC is not tops in the nation. We are what? Maybe 5th best in the nation in conference basketball? While we are the best in football and baseball..............my point is...........basketball coaches are not clamoring for an SEC basketball job like they are for football and baseball.

We clearly need a change and I too say "Fire Rick" but it is a difficult hire.