Since MI is all in with Harbaugh, what happens if he does not return them to glory?..

[IMissJack]

I'm not saying he is a bad coach, but Nick Saban could not win big with the current set of athletes in MI. So, there is going to have to be a total change in recruiting philosophy or something. In the past MI has thrown academics in the face of other conferences, but I don't think they can stay where they are and expect a big change. So if Bama comes out and throttles OSU, what is MI going to do differently? IF Harbaugh cannot get them back consistently, what do they do next? To me, this is a big gamble.

Edited to add...At least they do have Desmond Howard to preach the greatness of MI the next few years in the current playoff system, the way Herbstreit pumped OSU.

[engie]

There is nowhere really to go beyond Harbaugh. They laid their dicks on the counter with this hire in making him the highest paid coach in the history of football. Him losing there would probably break their spirits. They would have to confront a new reality that they aren't and likely won't be a national power again.

All that to say -- I think he wins pretty big there. But he has to go "FULL SABAN" to be worth what they just paid him...

[msstate7]

I'm not saying he is a bad coach, but Nick Saban could not win big with the current set of athletes in MI. So, there is going to have to be a total change in recruiting philosophy or something. In the past MI has thrown academics in the face of other conferences, but I don't think they can stay where they are and expect a big change. So if Bama comes out and throttles OSU, what is MI going to do differently? IF Harbaugh cannot get them back consistently, what do they do next? To me, this is a big gamble.

Edited to add...At least they do have Desmond Howard to preach the greatness of MI the next few years in the current playoff system, the way Herbstreit pumped OSU.

Why does everyone think you can't win at michigan? Michigan state has been to rose and cotton the last 2 years with a 23-3 overall record.

Harbaugh will win at Michigan. He will recruit nationally. Recruits will take notice when harbaugh is in their living room

[Johnson85]

Why does everyone think you can't win at michigan? Michigan state has been to rose and cotton the last 2 years with a 23-3 overall record.

Harbaugh will win at Michigan. He will recruit nationally. Recruits will take notice when harbaugh is in their living room

Richrod would have won at Michigan. He had the program going in the right direction despite being a terrible fit and despite the boosters not fully supporting him. Harbaugh is very likely going to get them into a major bowl if not the playoffs. The only question is how many years it will take and what Michigan will do when he wins consistently without bringing them a national championship? Not saying he won't, but he could do a very good job and produce nothing more than a program that is dominant in the Big 10 without ever being good enough to get through the playoffs.

[IMissJack]

Richrod would have won at Michigan. He had the program going in the right direction despite being a terrible fit and despite the boosters not fully supporting him. Harbaugh is very likely going to get them into a major bowl if not the playoffs. The only question is how many years it will take and what Michigan will do when he wins consistently without bringing them a national championship? Not saying he won't, but he could do a very good job and produce nothing more than a program that is dominant in the Big 10 without ever being good enough to get through the playoffs.

I totally agree with this, and did not mean to imply that he would not win at MI. However, there is winning and there is winning, and for $8M a year, MI faithful is going to expect to be in the NC hunt regularly, and I don't know if that is realistic. So, what I am saying is, if Harbaugh can't do that in 3-4 years, IMO there is going to be some real buyers remorse, knowing you could have had the same thing for $4-5M a year. I also agree that Rich Rod could have won at MI eventually, but the fan base had left him, and the MSU beat down contributed a lot to that. AZ picked up a good coach though, and Byrne won on that one, much like with Mullen.

[msstate7]

I totally agree with this, and did not mean to imply that he would not win at MI. However, there is winning and there is winning, and for $8M a year, MI faithful is going to expect to be in the NC hunt regularly, and I don't know if that is realistic. So, what I am saying is, if Harbaugh can't do that in 3-4 years, IMO there is going to be some real buyers remorse, knowing you could have had the same thing for $4-5M a year.

Not sure. I do know that getting harbaugh has made Michigan relevant again. I'm not sure there's many coaches that can do that day #1.

Ohio state made the playoffs this year and Michigan state would have last year if it existed. If Michigan wins big 10, they'll get in the playoffs. I think having a playoff contender will keep Michigan happy for awhile

[DudyDawg]

I don't think they are relevant? How could they be. They haven't done anything. They don't have the talent to compete for the playoffs or big six bowl, and that won't change for a few seasons. Even if he gets the number one class this year and next they won't compete for it bc they don't have enough talent there right now. Will they down the road? Time will tell, but I don't think they will ever get back to where they were. Recruits don't want to go where it's cold, and you don't have to go to Michigan, OSU, ND etc to get on TV every single week. They will get to 9-10 wins at most IMO under any coach. May sneak in to contention sometimes, but never like they used to. And it'll take a while. They aren't back to relevance

[Johnson85]

Not sure. I do know that getting harbaugh has made Michigan relevant again. I'm not sure there's many coaches that can do that day #1.


I think there are lots of coaches that could do that as far as winning goes, but i agree the list of coaches that are virtual sure things is short. Saban, Harbaugh, and I guess Urban Meyer. Not sure anybody else qualifies. Chip Kelly and to a lesser extent Malzahn should be there except it seems Michigan fans and administration have an irrational hatred of the spread (I assume they'd be ok with the Meyer version run with a big QB). Pete Carroll would be another possibility.

[Johnson85]

I don't think they are relevant? How could they be. They haven't done anything. They don't have the talent to compete for the playoffs or big six bowl, and that won't change for a few seasons. Even if he gets the number one class this year and next they won't compete for it bc they don't have enough talent there right now. Will they down the road? Time will tell, but I don't think they will ever get back to where they were. Recruits don't want to go where it's cold, and you don't have to go to Michigan, OSU, ND etc to get on TV every single week. They will get to 9-10 wins at most IMO under any coach. May sneak in to contention sometimes, but never like they used to. And it'll take a while. They aren't back to relevance

I think they will be what OSU is in two years. Probably not a legit championship contender but they will be in the playoff discussions. I expect that they will do well against a pretty weak schedule next year, but be outclassed by OSU and any other top 15 type team on their schedule, which without looking at their schedule could put them in the 9 or 10 win range immediately. Basically what Michigan St. did this year. Beat everybody you should beat and get trounced when you play legit teams.

[DudyDawg]

I think they will be what OSU is in two years. Probably not a legit championship contender but they will be in the playoff discussions. I expect that they will do well against a pretty weak schedule next year, but be outclassed by OSU and any other top 15 type team on their schedule, which without looking at their schedule could put them in the 9 or 10 win range immediately. Basically what Michigan St. did this year. Beat everybody you should beat and get trounced when you play legit teams.
Agree, like Michigan state this season. They were always near the top but scared no one. They will get better and he will win, I'm not saying he won't, but they won't be a national power like they were. They'll compete in the big ten (mostly bc it sucks, not because they'll be that good) and lose bowl games and any big OOC games if they schedule any

[Raytoraid83]

It may take a year or two (sly croom beat saban his first year) but there is no question Harbaugh will have Michigan relevant again. Big ten schedule will make the process even quicker.

[msstate7]

I don't think they are relevant? How could they be. They haven't done anything. They don't have the talent to compete for the playoffs or big six bowl, and that won't change for a few seasons. Even if he gets the number one class this year and next they won't compete for it bc they don't have enough talent there right now. Will they down the road? Time will tell, but I don't think they will ever get back to where they were. Recruits don't want to go where it's cold, and you don't have to go to Michigan, OSU, ND etc to get on TV every single week. They will get to 9-10 wins at most IMO under any coach. May sneak in to contention sometimes, but never like they used to. And it'll take a while. They aren't back to relevance

Michigan's last 3 recruiting classes were ranked 20th, 4th, and 6th. There's talent there.

Talent will follow great coaching.

I think some of you guys listen to bo bounds too much. You can win at programs in the north. Dantonio is winning at mich state now.

[DudyDawg]

Michigan's last 3 recruiting classes were ranked 20th, 4th, and 6th. There's talent there.

Talent will follow great coaching.

I think some of you guys listen to bo bounds too much. You can win at programs in the north. Dantonio is winning at mich state now.

Never listened to him once in my life. Dantonio is winning but they are not a power. There's a difference in winning 9 games in a shitty conference yearly (which Michigan will do, causing MI ST to drop) and being a national power. Those teams don't win 9-10 bc of a lot of talent, it's bc their conference lacks it

[msstate7]

It may take a year or two (sly croom beat saban his first year) but there is no question Harbaugh will have Michigan relevant again. Big ten schedule will make the process even quicker.

I agree. Did going to the big10 stop urban meyer from winning? Great coaches will win. Harbaugh is a great coach

[Raytoraid83]

Never listened to him once in my life. Dantonio is winning but they are not a power. There's a difference in winning 9 games in a shitty conference yearly (which Michigan will do, causing MI ST to drop) and being a national power

Harbaugh and Michigan will recruit nationally. Mich st can't do that

[Political Hack]

There is nowhere really to go beyond Harbaugh. They laid their dicks on the counter with this hire in making him the highest paid coach in the history of football. Him losing there would probably break their spirits. They would have to confront a new reality that they aren't and likely won't be a national power again.

All that to say -- I think he wins pretty big there. But he has to go "FULL SABAN" to be worth what they just paid him...

he's not even going to own the Ohio State rivalry and there's not really many more relevant teams on their schedule to exert any consistent level of dominance. It's not like Saban, who can drop some to Auburn, but beat LSU, Tennessee, etc... and still come out looking good. Or even like us now with losing the egg bowl, but still winning 10 so no one is that pissed.

He's seriously got ONE game he has to dominate.

[msstate7]

Never listened to him once in my life. Dantonio is winning but they are not a power. There's a difference in winning 9 games in a shitty conference yearly (which Michigan will do, causing MI ST to drop) and being a national power. Those teams don't win 9-10 bc of a lot of talent, it's bc their conference lacks it

Michigan state was 12-1 last season and won rose. If there was a playoff last year, they'd have been in it. Michigan state is 23-3 the last 2 years with rose and cotton bowls. That not winning big? Guess Florida state and bama are the only big time programs

[IMissJack]

Never listened to him once in my life. Dantonio is winning but they are not a power. There's a difference in winning 9 games in a shitty conference yearly (which Michigan will do, causing MI ST to drop) and being a national power. Those teams don't win 9-10 bc of a lot of talent, it's bc their conference lacks it

IMO, this is why it is important for the SEC to wax people in the bowl season, to show that our talent is so much better than the Big 10, that 2 teams from the same conference is a possibility, and conference champion should not be a requirement.

[DudyDawg]

Michigan state was 12-1 last season and won rose. If there was a playoff last year, they'd have been in it. Michigan state is 23-3 the last 2 years with rose and cotton bowls. That not winning big? Guess Florida state and bama are the only big time programs

It is. And like I said, Michigan MAY do that OCCASIONALLY. Like I saif, they are winning by default, bc someone has to win in that conference. Not bc of elite talent or dominance. Michigan state played two good teams this season. And got railed. The same will happen w Michigan and harbaugh. They'll win 9-10 and lose to any good team and in bowl games. And even if they do somehow get into the playoffs, people will be hoping they draw them, just like OSU this season.

I'm not arguing that they'll stay a 5-7 win team. Im saying they won't be a school that can pick and choose their recruits and who dominates everyone like they used to be able to

[ShotgunDawg]

Michigan state was 12-1 last season and won rose. If there was a playoff last year, they'd have been in it. Michigan state is 23-3 the last 2 years with rose and cotton bowls. That not winning big? Guess Florida state and bama are the only big time programs

Your missing the point

We all agree that Harbaugh will win 9 or 10 games a year at Michigan and possibly getting in the playoff. But that success is more about how poor the Big 10 is rather than how good Michigan will be.

Yes, Ohio State and Michigan State are pretty good teams, but who have they beaten that would make you believe they are anything close to the level of Alabama,Florida State, or LSU in good years?

I mention these teams because that is the level that you must be at to be a national power because that's the level you must be at to win a national championship.

Michigan State's best win this season is a double digit LOSS at Oregon. So, how do we know Michigan State is any good?

Ohio State loss to Virginia Tech and their best wins were against a Michigan State team whose best win was a loss at Oregon and a Wisconsin team who lost to LSU, who finished 5th in the SEC West.

Yes, Harbaugh can make them relevant and put them in contention to get into the playoff, but doing that doesn't make them a national power, because that success will be built upon beating bad teams and put their quality of play no closer to being a National Power than Michigan State or Ohio State is now.

Finally, I don't think that area can sustain 3 really good programs. My guess that in order for Michigam to get substantially better, they will need to steal recruits from Ohio State and Michigan, which will lower those team's ceilings.

[msstate7]

Your missing the point

We all agree that Harbaugh will win 9 or 10 games a year at Michigan and possibly getting in the playoff. But that success is more about how poor the Big 10 is rather than how good Michigan will be.

Yes, Ohio State and Michigan State are pretty good teams, but who have they beaten that would make you believe they are anything close to the level of Alabama,Florida State, or LSU in good years?

I mention these teams because that is the level that you must be at to be a national power because that's the level you must be at to win a national championship.

Michigan State's best win this season is a double digit LOSS at Oregon. So, how do we know Michigan State is any good?

Ohio State loss to Virginia Tech and their best wins were against a Michigan State team whose best win was a loss at Oregon and a Wisconsin team who lost to LSU, who finished 5th in the SEC West.

Yes, Harbaugh can make them relevant and put them in contention to get into the playoff, but doing that doesn't make them a national power, because that success will be built upon beating bad teams and put their quality of play no closer to being a National Power than Michigan State or Ohio State is now.

Finally, I don't think that area can sustain 3 really good programs. My guess that in order for Michigam to get substantially better, they will need to steal recruits from Ohio State and Michigan, which will lower those team's ceilings.

Sec titles since '03...

Lsu has 2. Saban won first one and miles backed into one with saban's talent

Florida has 2. Both under meyer

Bama has 3 under saban

Auburn has 1 with a qb that meyer booted off florida

All 8 can be tied directly or indirectly to Saban or meyer.

Meyer is now at Ohio state and has them on the verge of being a power.

Harbaugh is a coach on that level.

Great coaches are what makes great teams.

[Todd4State]

Your missing the point

We all agree that Harbaugh will win 9 or 10 games a year at Michigan and possibly getting in the playoff. But that success is more about how poor the Big 10 is rather than how good Michigan will be.

Yes, Ohio State and Michigan State are pretty good teams, but who have they beaten that would make you believe they are anything close to the level of Alabama,Florida State, or LSU in good years?

I mention these teams because that is the level that you must be at to be a national power because that's the level you must be at to win a national championship.

Michigan State's best win this season is a double digit LOSS at Oregon. So, how do we know Michigan State is any good?

Ohio State loss to Virginia Tech and their best wins were against a Michigan State team whose best win was a loss at Oregon and a Wisconsin team who lost to LSU, who finished 5th in the SEC West.

Yes, Harbaugh can make them relevant and put them in contention to get into the playoff, but doing that doesn't make them a national power, because that success will be built upon beating bad teams and put their quality of play no closer to being a National Power than Michigan State or Ohio State is now.

Finally, I don't think that area can sustain 3 really good programs. My guess that in order for Michigam to get substantially better, they will need to steal recruits from Ohio State and Michigan, which will lower those team's ceilings.

You get it. The Big 10 is much better off with one marquee team like Ohio State than Ohio State, Penn State, and Michigan all splitting up the talent and weakening themselves. And then they have to deal with Notre Dame in their backyard as well. It's all about the region- which is why the SEC dominates.

[msstate7]

You get it. The Big 10 is much better off with one marquee team like Ohio State than Ohio State, Penn State, and Michigan all splitting up the talent and weakening themselves. And then they have to deal with Notre Dame in their backyard as well. It's all about the region- which is why the SEC dominates.

http://athlonsports.com/college-football/recruiting-ranking-most-talented-states-country

This is Athlon's state rankings according to recruiting rankings.

Ohio is #5
Penn is #7
Michigan is tied for #11 with South Carolina

Michigan provides plenty of guaranteed talent for Michigan while they'll cherry pick all over the country.

Alabama is 6th, yet there's 2 premier national brand teams in the state. How do they keep it up? By getting who they want in AL and cherry picking elsewhere. Michigan will too.

Oregon is 22nd yet they thrive.

Ohio state is locking up their state and stealing recruits all over the country

[engie]

Alot of isolationism ideas goin on up in this thread...

[Coach34]

Penn State is about to get stronger too dont forget. Franklin will keep them in the hunt also.

[IMissJack]

http://athlonsports.com/college-football/recruiting-ranking-most-talented-states-country

This is Athlon's state rankings according to recruiting rankings.

Ohio is #5
Penn is #7
Michigan is tied for #11 with South Carolina

Michigan provides plenty of guaranteed talent for Michigan while they'll cherry pick all over the country.

Alabama is 6th, yet there's 2 premier national brand teams in the state. How do they keep it up? By getting who they want in AL and cherry picking elsewhere. Michigan will too.

Oregon is 22nd yet they thrive.

Ohio state is locking up their state and stealing recruits all over the country

I know this statement is shocking, but maybe Athlon's is not correct in their recruiting rankings...Maybe they are trying to sell some magazines. This just in also, maybe ESPN is biased towards large market teams.

[HSVDawg]

Probably the same thing that would have happened if Saban hadn't won big at Bama. Total meltdown. Of course, we never got to see that and we likely won't see it with Harbaugh either.

He has won big at Stanford, where there are more stringent academic restrictions than Michigan. He's also taken an NFL team to the Super Bowl and has the 5th highest winning percentage in NFL coaching history. All that, and he will be going back to his alma mater where you know he will stop at nothing to return Michigan to glory. This is the surest, lowest risk hire you will ever see in college sports. I fully expect Michigan to be winning 10+ every year starting in year 2 for Harbaugh.

[msstate7]

Probably the same thing that would have happened if Saban hadn't won big at Bama. Total meltdown. Of course, we never got to see that and we likely won't see it with Harbaugh either.

He has won big at Stanford, where there are more stringent academic restrictions than Michigan. He's also taken an NFL team to the Super Bowl and has the 5th highest winning percentage in NFL coaching history. All that, and he will be going back to his alma mater where you know he will stop at nothing to return Michigan to glory. This is the surest, lowest risk hire you will ever see in college sports. I fully expect Michigan to be winning 10+ every year starting in year 2 for Harbaugh.

I agree. To think harbaugh won't succeed at a school like michigan is just sec tunnel vision imo. Michigan just made harbaugh the highest paid coach in football. Michigan is all in and it'll soon show

[engie]

Probably the same thing that would have happened if Saban hadn't won big at Bama. Total meltdown. Of course, we never got to see that and we likely won't see it with Harbaugh either.

He has won big at Stanford, where there are more stringent academic restrictions than Michigan. He's also taken an NFL team to the Super Bowl and has the 5th highest winning percentage in NFL coaching history. All that, and he will be going back to his alma mater where you know he will stop at nothing to return Michigan to glory. This is the surest, lowest risk hire you will ever see in college sports. I fully expect Michigan to be winning 10+ every year starting in year 2 for Harbaugh.

Great post...

We'll see where there talent level actually is after a year or so there...

[KB21]

I said this in another thread, but if you are in the Big 10, Pac 12, or Big 12, and want to compete on a national level for a championship, you will have to build a team that can compete with the top SEC teams. Only one team has been able to do that since 2006, and that team's recruiting base is in Florida, the most fertile recruiting ground there is.

Harbaugh is going to have to adjust his style from when he was at Stanford. You can't compete with the SEC with just speed, and you can't compete with the SEC by trying to be bigger and stronger. You have to have both. Jim's Stanford teams were good, but they weren't good enough to compete with Alabama, Florida, and LSU during that time.

Urban Meyer has been in the SEC and understands this, IMO. That is why his Ohio State team is one that more closely resembles a SEC team rather than a traditional Big 10 team.

We will see what Harbaugh can do. I really think he benefited from Luck at Stanford, and he benefited from the extremely talented roster he inherited with San Francisco.

[Offshore Dawg]

Then blame it on inflation ( 48 Million doesn't buy what it use to ).

[Offshore Dawg]

Harbaugh will have a longer Raine in that he is a Michigan man. And truth be known where would Michigan go from here.

[Smitty]

Harbaugh told AD he did not want to be the highest paid coach in college football or even the Big Ten in order to pay his assistants more.

[msstate7]

Harbaugh told AD he did not want to be the highest paid coach in college football or even the Big Ten in order to pay his assistants more.

Smart man.

Wonder if Ed o will get an interview.

[Smitty]

Was offered 8M a year. Only took 5M.

15 million left on the table for assistants over the next 5 years just from his savings alone.

[BiscuitEater]

Not sure. I do know that getting harbaugh has made Michigan relevant again. I'm not sure there's many coaches that can do that day #1. Ohio state made the playoffs this year and Michigan state would have last year if it existed. If Michigan wins big 10, they'll get in the playoffs. I think having a playoff contender will keep Michigan happy for awhile

Exactly 'how' in Mich now 'relevant again?' Yea, they are being discussed 'cause of the HUGE contract Harbaugh signed, BUT they haven't won a single game yet.

Michigan has the same problem that MSU had ... they are in a 'tough' division, maybe the second toughest in the country, along with MSU, tOSU & improving PSU. They will 'kill each other' until there is only ONE left standing.

Last year, woulda been MSU. This year it's tOSU. Think it's going to be while before Michigan is in this mix. Fun to watch.

[BulldogBear]

I'm not saying he is a bad coach, but Nick Saban could not win big with the current set of athletes in MI. So, there is going to have to be a total change in recruiting philosophy or something. In the past MI has thrown academics in the face of other conferences, but I don't think they can stay where they are and expect a big change. So if Bama comes out and throttles OSU, what is MI going to do differently? IF Harbaugh cannot get them back consistently, what do they do next? To me, this is a big gamble.

Edited to add...At least they do have Desmond Howard to preach the greatness of MI the next few years in the current playoff system, the way Herbstreit pimped OSU.

FIFY

[msstate7]

Bump