can someone tell me what the hell the Bucs are doing....

[HoopsDawg]

winning this game vs the Saints when they desperately need a QB. Jameis Winston and Mike Evans could be a great duo the next 10 years.

[msstate7]

Some guys playing for jobs im sure.

[Irondawg]

Well Winston won't go 1. If they want mariota they need to be one.

[scottycameron]

winning this game vs the Saints when they desperately need a QB. Jameis Winston and Mike Evans could be a great duo the next 10 years.

Kind of like Major League. Maybe the owner will shitcan the hot tubs.

[mstate68]

Saints loss likely gives the saints a top 10 pick so as a saints fan, I won't complain.

[msstate7]

Well Winston won't go 1. If they want mariota they need to be one.

He may not go 1, but he's the best qb in this draft. If he can take care of off the field issues, Winston will be a star

[scottycameron]

He may not go 1, but he's the best qb in this draft. If he can take care of off the field issues, Winston will be a star

He's not an NFL QB.

[quickstrike2]

I can't imagine what a Winston with millions of dollars will act like. The dude is bigger than the law right now, he can do anything an get away with it. I thought him pushing the ref out of the way when he was doing his job was the most telling, Winston does not know what rules are and I think he will be hell on whatever NFL coach drafts him. He does have elite talent though.

[msstate7]

He's not an NFL QB.

Lol

[Political Hack]

Saints should spend their first five picks on 5 OL and just reboot the entire OL. As much help as they need on D, they have up protect their investment in Brees.

[scottycameron]

Lol

you think winston is an nfl qb? BTW, Mariota isn't one either.

[Intramural All-American]

He's not an NFL QB.

Extremely dumb comment. You may be the only person who believes this.

[Irondawg]

How Manziel acted this year is probably going to affect Winston's stock but it only takes one desperate nfl owner to pull the trigger.

[msstate7]

you think winston is an nfl qb? BTW, Mariota isn't one either.

Yes, I think Winston is an nfl qb. The only doubts surrounding him are all off the field issues. Winston has elite talent

[Intramural All-American]

How Manziel acted this year is probably going to affect Winston's stock but it only takes one desperate nfl owner to pull the trigger.

Winston is actually a really good QB, unlike Manziel. Manziel is just a really good athlete who's game never was going to translate.

[scottycameron]

Yes, I think Winston is an nfl qb. The only doubts surrounding him are all off the field issues. Winston has elite talent

More than Manziel? He's a great athlete, no doubt. He could be really good at other positions more suited for him. There will be an owner who gives him a shot, just like Manziel, maybe even a high choice shot like RG3, but he'll never make it. He doesn't have it between the ears.

[starkvegasdawg]

I can't imagine what a Winston with millions of dollars will act like. The dude is bigger than the law right now, he can do anything an get away with it. I thought him pushing the ref out of the way when he was doing his job was the most telling, Winston does not know what rules are and I think he will be hell on whatever NFL coach drafts him. He does have elite talent though.

The main difference is that in the nfl his team mates will kick the ever loving 17 out of him if he gets out of line. This is their job and they won't stand for an ego and attitude like his threatening their livelihood.

[Aces High]

you think winston is an nfl qb? BTW, Mariota isn't one either.

Um yes. Winston is an elite qb. He is a protypical pocket nfl passer. He is more big ben that rg3. He doesnt even move real well.

He has a cannon and is huge. His problems are off the field. If he cleans that up, he can be an elite nfl qb. He can put the ball anywhere he wants.

Winston also is very smart and highly intelligent. He does stupid things but he has a very high IQ

[CadaverDawg]

Winston can be a NFL star if he keeps out of trouble. By far the most talented in the draft. To say he isn't a NFL QB or to compare him to Manziel talent-wise, is just horribly inaccurate. Winston has far greater NFL potential than Manziel ever had.

[Aces High]

People compare him to rg3, manziel, etc bc he is black and they just assume he is a runner.

He is a statue pocket qb. He is roethlisburger.

[scottycameron]

Um yes. Winston is an elite qb. He is a protypical pocket nfl passer. He is more big ben that rg3. He doesnt even move real well.

He has a cannon and is huge. His problems are off the field. If he cleans that up, he can be an elite nfl qb. He can put the ball anywhere he wants.

I've listened to the kid, the wonderlic is not going to be kind to him. I wouldn't draft him. I know a lot of you would, and every year there are some owners that will. I don't see him going extremely high like a V. Young, J. Russell, or RG3, but I know there is an owner out there who take a shot with a valuable pick. Never fails. He won't make it tho, watch and see.

[HoopsDawg]

I've listened to the kid, the wonderlic is not going to be kind to him. I wouldn't draft him. I know a lot of you would, and every year there are some owners that will. I don't see him going extremely high like a V. Young, J. Russell, or RG3, but I know there is an owner out there who take a shot with a valuable pick. Never fails. He won't make it tho, watch and see.

Good Job Tampa. You just got Winston. He is the best on the field prospect in the last 5 years other than Andrew Luck.

[scottycameron]

Good Job Tampa. You just got Winston. He is the best on the field prospect in the last 5 years other than Andrew Luck.

They remind me a lot of each other, LOL.

[Bo Darville]

Extremely dumb comment. You may be the only person who believes this.

Don't forget that "everybody" thought Ryan Leaf was an NFL QB. And Jamarcus Russell.

[engie]

I've listened to the kid, the wonderlic is not going to be kind to him.

So public speaking ability defines intelligence now?

Good lord.

[shoeless joe]

I've listened to the kid, the wonderlic is not going to be kind to him. I wouldn't draft him. I know a lot of you would, and every year there are some owners that will. I don't see him going extremely high like a V. Young, J. Russell, or RG3, but I know there is an owner out there who take a shot with a valuable pick. Never fails. He won't make it tho, watch and see.

This post just spoke loud and clear about what you think is "wrong" with Winston.

I don't think you've ever seriously watched him play.

[DownwardDawg]

Winston has the ability to be a great NFL QB. I'm betting his "issues" get in the way though.

[Todd4State]

Winston reminds me a lot of Steve McNair- but maybe even more talented.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Winston is very smart. He's a great student. Immaturity & intellect don't go hand in hand.

[Bully13]

winston will fall in similar fashion that manzell is falling. can't handle off the field shit.

[Intramural All-American]

Don't forget that "everybody" thought Ryan Leaf was an NFL QB. And Jamarcus Russell.

Leaf, yes. Russell, no. But good job proving nothing. ScottyCameron looks like an absolute fool here for acting like his "opinion" on a QB is superior to every single scout in the NFL. And then to insinuate the whole race factor just further enhances his stupidity. Winston has off the field issues that could keep him from being a good NFL player, but to argue that his skill set does not translate perfectly through the NFL is beyond dumb.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I'll be very surprised if Winston isn't drafted in the top 5. He won't last past 10.

[Maroons]

Um yes. Winston is an elite qb. He is a protypical pocket nfl passer. He is more big ben that rg3. He doesnt even move real well.

He has a cannon and is huge. His problems are off the field. If he cleans that up, he can be an elite nfl qb. He can put the ball anywhere he wants.

Winston also is very smart and highly intelligent. He does stupid things but he has a very high IQ

Elite talent doesn't have a long release and throw 17 INT's in a crap conference.

[msstate7]

Elite talent doesn't have a long release and throw 17 INT's in a crap conference.

It does however go 26-0 as a starter with a national championship and heisman trophy.

[CadaverDawg]

It does however go 26-0 as a starter with a national championship and heisman trophy.

+1

Anybody that can't acknowledge Winston's talent either A) Hasn't watched him much, or B) Is too blinded by their dislike of him (which most of us have) due to his off field issues. I can't stand the guy, and I don't think he deserves success...but I cannot deny his talent on the field.

[Tbonewannabe]

Does anyone think the gambling issue might keep him from going top 10?

[msstate7]

Does anyone think the gambling issue might keep him from going top 10?

No idea. Where Winston gets drafted will be very interesting

[Bo Darville]

Leaf, yes. Russell, no. But good job proving nothing. ScottyCameron looks like an absolute fool here for acting like his "opinion" on a QB is superior to every single scout in the NFL.

The point is that "everybody" has been wrong many times. I had an NBA scout tell me that "everybody" in the NBA thought Len Bias was going to be a great player. "Everybody" in NFL front offices and scouting talk about the importance of quarterbacks and pass rushers. Yet none were willing to draft Brees, Brady, Aaron Rodgers, or JJ Watt in the top 10 picks. I would bet they would admit today that "everybody" was wrong. There is no such thing as a sure thing. None.

[scottycameron]

It does however go 26-0 as a starter with a national championship and heisman trophy.

no doubt he is a great college QB, up there with Teebow and airything. He's not a NFL QB, imo, tho. But we will see.

[Aces High]

no doubt he is a great college QB, up there with Teebow and airything. He's not a NFL QB, imo, tho. But we will see.

So what, in your opinion, makes you say this? Forget his off field issues. Why do ypu think he isnt a NFL qb?

He is easily one of the best 3-5 overall prospects in the last 5 years.

[Todd4State]

The point is that "everybody" has been wrong many times. I had an NBA scout tell me that "everybody" in the NBA thought Len Bias was going to be a great player. "Everybody" in NFL front offices and scouting talk about the importance of quarterbacks and pass rushers. Yet none were willing to draft Brees, Brady, Aaron Rodgers, or JJ Watt in the top 10 picks. I would bet they would admit today that "everybody" was wrong. There is no such thing as a sure thing. None.

Well, Len Bias probably would have been legit had he not passed away.

[Bo Darville]

Well, Len Bias probably would have been legit had he not passed away.

But he wasn't an NBA player and that is the point. It's not an exact science. So much comes into play. Bias did nothing because of a cocaine overdose. We've seen great players who do nothing because of career ending injuries. Vick lost a few years to prison.

I don't really have an opinion on Winston, but I do know that he is not guaranteed success just because "everybody" says he has all the tools.

[Todd4State]

If I were a NFL GM, I would take a chance on Winston. All of his trouble occurred at Florida State. It might be a case of him just needing a change of scenery.

And you look at the things that he did:

The rape allegation was made one year after the incident occurred. Which was brought to light right after Winston became famous. And one year after the victim dropped charges and then decided to take it back up one year later.

He got in trouble at FSU for bringing a BB gun to campus and shooting at squirrels.

He got in trouble for shoplifting crab legs. Which since he was acquitted of rape was actually the worst thing he has done to date.

He yelled something vulgar at the FSU student union.

If you really look at it objectively, two of the things that he did were "stupid"- but not that bad to me in the grand scheme of things. I'm referring to the BB gun and yelling something vulgar. The rape charge has a ton of holes in it. I personally think it was something that was consentual, but probably regretted doing because she was intoxicated, and the woman decided to try to get some money out of Winston after he became famous. I know that's not PC to say, but it's probably true. The crab thing was bad- but he did it so nonchalantly that I suspect he knew someone at the grocery store who told him he could take them for free but that person reneged when Winston was caught.

[dawgs]

winston needs to cut out the turnovers if he wants to make it as a NFL QB. winston threw more INTs (17) in 12 games this season than mariota has INTs (12) in his entire career of 39 games. even last year winston had 10 INTs, almost as many as mariota's had in his whole career.

also, mental makeup is at least 50% of what makes a successful NFL QB. i just don't think winston has it. and while a lot of busts might hide their mental makeup in college, winston has put his on display for the world to see over and over and over. if you take him high and he can't get his head straight, you can't say you weren't warned.

[dawgs]

If I were a NFL GM, I would take a chance on Winston. All of his trouble occurred at Florida State. It might be a case of him just needing a change of scenery.

And you look at the things that he did:

The rape allegation was made one year after the incident occurred. Which was brought to light right after Winston became famous. And one year after the victim dropped charges and then decided to take it back up one year later.

He got in trouble at FSU for bringing a BB gun to campus and shooting at squirrels.

He got in trouble for shoplifting crab legs. Which since he was acquitted of rape was actually the worst thing he has done to date.

He yelled something vulgar at the FSU student union.

If you really look at it objectively, two of the things that he did were "stupid"- but not that bad to me in the grand scheme of things. I'm referring to the BB gun and yelling something vulgar. The rape charge has a ton of holes in it. I personally think it was something that was consentual, but probably regretted doing because she was intoxicated, and the woman decided to try to get some money out of Winston after he became famous. I know that's not PC to say, but it's probably true. The crab thing was bad- but he did it so nonchalantly that I suspect he knew someone at the grocery store who told him he could take them for free but that person reneged when Winston was caught.

the rape allegation happened when winston was a redshirt and not widely known. the chick says she didn't even know who he was until he walked into a class she had.

[archdog]

Between wimston and mariotta I would side with Winston on NFL talent, but when you talk about issues off the field then I would take someone else for my franchise qb.

[I seen it dawg]

I would leave them both alone and take a stud LB or OL. Take a qb in round 3

If Andrew Luck is not in the draft then don't take a qb in top 2 rounds.

[War Machine Dawg]

So public speaking ability defines intelligence now?

Good lord.

It certainly doesn't define intelligence. But if you're trying to argue it isn't an indicator, then you're just as wrong. But Engine gonna Engine.

The kid is tremendously talented physically. Personally, I don't think he has it upstairs to make it in the NFL. He believes he's above the law, among other issues. But I also have no doubt he'll go in the first 5-10 picks. We'll see how it plays out. I'd be hesitant to invest money in him if I were an NFL owner/GM, though. Too many red flags mentally/behaviorally, especially with Sheriff Goodell suspending players left and right.

[engie]

It certainly doesn't define intelligence. But if you're trying to argue it isn't an indicator, then you're just as wrong. But Engine gonna Engine.

If I was arguing that it wasn't an "indicator" -- I would have argued that it wasn't an indicator. But straw-man WMD gonna straw-man WMD. ALL indications around FSU since long before he became famous have been that he's a tremendous student and very intelligent overall. But you also apparently think you know better than those indications based on how he presents himself in public...


The kid is tremendously talented physically. Personally, I don't think he has it upstairs to make it in the NFL. He believes he's above the law, among other issues. But I also have no doubt he'll go in the first 5-10 picks. We'll see how it plays out. I'd be hesitant to invest money in him if I were an NFL owner/GM, though. Too many red flags mentally/behaviorally, especially with Sheriff Goodell suspending players left and right.
No one is arguing any of that. Arguing success and capacity for success are two very different things.

[RougeDawg]

So public speaking ability defines intelligence now?

Good lord.

No, but when actual physical acts corroborate the ignorant speaking, then yes it is logical to question his intelligence. If someone speaks like an idiot and acts like an idiot, why and/or how cold anyone come to any conclusion other than, said person is an idiot.

What evidence or facts does anyone have that proves otherwise? If Winston played in the SEC he'd be a potential top 5 round draft pick with mediocre numbers. Some of you fail to see how weak the defenses were he played and the lack of competition FSU has faced the last 2 years.

Winston will not last in the NFL. I just hope my Saints don't waste a draft pick on him.

[Intramural All-American]

But he wasn't an NBA player and that is the point. It's not an exact science. So much comes into play. Bias did nothing because of a cocaine overdose. We've seen great players who do nothing because of career ending injuries. Vick lost a few years to prison.

I don't really have an opinion on Winston, but I do know that he is not guaranteed success just because "everybody" says he has all the tools.

So everyone was wrong because the guy died before he got to the NBA? That is one of the dumber posts I have ever heard. And Winston may turn out to be mediocre to bad in the NFL, but scottycameron arguing against him and disagreeing with "everyone" that actually knows what they are talking about just shows ignorance.

FYI, the examples you are using are not due to quality of play on the field, which is what scottycameron is arguing, which is why I think that guy is retarded.

[msstate7]

No, but when actual physical acts corroborate the ignorant speaking, then yes it is logical to question his intelligence. If someone speaks like an idiot and acts like an idiot, why and/or how cold anyone come to any conclusion other than, said person is an idiot.

What evidence or facts does anyone have that proves otherwise? If Winston played in the SEC he'd be a potential top 5 round draft pick with mediocre numbers. Some of you fail to see how weak the defenses were he played and the lack of competition FSU has faced the last 2 years.

Winston will not last in the NFL. I just hope my Saints don't waste a draft pick on him.

Who did Fsu beat for the natty last year?

[engie]

No, but when actual physical acts corroborate the ignorant speaking, then yes it is logical to question his intelligence. If someone speaks like an idiot and acts like an idiot, why and/or how cold anyone come to any conclusion other than, said person is an idiot.
Intelligence and maturity/decision-making are VERY different things. Unless you want to argue that there are no intelligent criminals and no intelligent "bad" people in the world, which is....unintelligent...


What evidence or facts does anyone have that proves otherwise? If Winston played in the SEC he'd be a potential top 5 round draft pick with mediocre numbers. Some of you fail to see how weak the defenses were he played and the lack of competition FSU has faced the last 2 years.
This is just ridiculous.


Winston will not last in the NFL. I just hope my Saints don't waste a draft pick on him.
Maybe he will -- maybe he won't. There's been alot of people with clear-cut NFL talent that didn't make it in the NFL.

[dawgs]

Intelligence and maturity/decision-making are VERY different things. Unless you want to argue that there are no intelligent criminals and no intelligent "bad" people in the world, which is....unintelligent...

No but you can argue against the intelligence of someone who only needs to spend 3 years playing football, learning the game and his position, and staying out of trouble to be a millionaire and set for life, and yet they can't go a couple of months without getting in trouble again. To me that at minimum brings his judgment into question, and at worst indicates he has little or no real life common sense intelligence.

also, this migh not be as big of a red flag if winston was a LB or a S or soemthing, but he's not just the QB, but going to instantly be the face of the franchise wherever he ends up. These are the characteristics or actions you want from your franchise QB.

[msstate7]

No but you can argue against the intelligence of someone who only needs to spend 3 years playing football, learning the game and his position, and staying out of trouble to be a millionaire and set for life, and yet they can't go a couple of months without getting in trouble again. To me that at minimum brings his judgment into question, and at worst indicates he has little or no real life common sense intelligence.

also, this migh not be as big of a red flag if winston was a LB or a S or soemthing, but he's not just the QB, but going to instantly be the face of the franchise wherever he ends up. These are the characteristics or actions you want from your franchise QB.

Doesn't seem to bother Pittsburgh with Big Ben

[dawgs]

the rape allegation happened when winston was a redshirt and not widely known. the chick says she didn't even know who he was until he walked into a class she had.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/jameis-winston-incidents-timeline-091714

Just to prove I'm right and you are wrong. The allegation didn't go public until a year later because people started figuring out how shitty of a job the tally pd did "investigating" the allegation.

[engie]

No but you can argue against the intelligence of someone who only needs to spend 3 years playing football, learning the game and his position, and staying out of trouble to be a millionaire and set for life, and yet they can't go a couple of months without getting in trouble again. To me that at minimum brings his judgment into question, and at worst indicates he has little or no real life common sense intelligence.
Maturity. Again. Not intelligence. What has his actions thusfar actually tangibly cost him? Not even a single damn game. Sure, his judgement is in question. I'd call myself intelligent -- and I did some incredibly stupid stuff in my younger days.


also, this migh not be as big of a red flag if winston was a LB or a S or soemthing, but he's not just the QB, but going to instantly be the face of the franchise wherever he ends up. These are the characteristics or actions you want from your franchise QB.
I'm confused where anyone said they would want him as the face of their franchise? Talent and intelligence is NOT "all it takes" to be an elite NFL QB. Winston has those two. Whether or not he can put together the rest of the package, time will tell.

[dawgs]

Doesn't seem to bother Pittsburgh with Big Ben

Those incidents didn't have the legs winston's does. Big Ben also was already a well known super bowl winning QB, so the argument that these chicks consented and tried to milk him for money seems far more likely. That said, big Ben is likely a piece of shit too.

[engie]

Those incidents didn't have the legs winston's does. Big Ben also was already a well known super bowl winning QB, so the argument that these chicks consented and tried to milk him for money seems far more likely. That said, big Ben is likely a piece of shit too.

The Ben incident went exactly as far as the Jameis incident. Not enough evidence to indict.

[dawgs]

Maturity. Again. Not intelligence. What has his actions thusfar actually tangibly cost him? Not even a single damn game. Sure, his judgement is in question. I'd call myself intelligent -- and I did some incredibly stupid stuff in my younger days.


I'm confused where anyone said they would want him as the face of their franchise? Talent and intelligence is NOT "all it takes" to be an elite NFL QB. Winston has those two. Whether or not he can put together the rest of the package, time will tell.

If you draft a QB in the top 10 picks, it's almost guaranteed he's going to be the face of the franchise. Top 10 QBs aren't drafted to be role players.

As for intelligence, did you rape a chick? Did you shoplift crab legs? Did you stand on tables in the middle of campus shouting "**** her right in the *****"? Did you have BB gun fights? All the while knowing you are a high profile athlete that will be under heightened scrutiny? Or where you just another anonymous drunk frat kid that did some dumbass shit leaving old Venice?

[dawgs]

The Ben incident went exactly as far as the Jameis incident. Not enough evidence to indict.

But y'all said she waited a year to accuse him and just was chasing money! That's false, winston wasn't really known to anyone but big time CFB fans that followed recruiting when he was accused. That chick had some serious foresight to know he'd win the heisman and be a 1st round NFL talent.

[Maroons]

It does however go 26-0 as a starter with a national championship and heisman trophy.

Did you see the receiver and defensive talent on that NC team / Heisman year???

He is above average for a college QB, but nowhere near an elite NFL prospect. Andrew Luck was an elite prospect with elite talent. Winston will struggle in the NFL.

[RougeDawg]

Intelligence and maturity/decision-making are VERY different things. Unless you want to argue that there are no intelligent criminals and no intelligent "bad" people in the world, which is....unintelligent...


This is just ridiculous.


Maybe he will -- maybe he won't. There's been alot of people with clear-cut NFL talent that didn't make it in the NFL.

Since you choose to try to discredit a posts main point by breaking it apart and discrediting smaller parts of it I will clarify for you.

Winston talks like an idiot and acts like an idiot and has shown he doesn't make good decisions. My next point was that he hasn't really played against many quality defenses, including Auburn last year, thus he hasn't had to make many difficult in game decisions against stiff competition.

I knew I should have provided a "post summary" for you to comprehended why Winston won't cut if in the NFL. If he had compiled the same stats in the sec then I'd have formed a different opinion.

Another telling tid bit of information is the QB Crab Stealer nudged out for the starting position, never really came close to starting for Alabama this year over a 5th year guy who had been a career backup. Take any of Dak, Sims, Masrhall, Wallace, and many other SEC QBs and put them on FSU and they will look like superstars because the ACC is garbage. But let's not let facts get in the way here.

[Political Hack]

if he has the metal fortitude to overcome early struggles and understand it's not going to be "his show" as soon as he arrives, he may pan out. I don't have high expectations for him, but it's got a lot to do with his mental maturity and willingness to protect the ball and be a team first guy. His top end physical talent is off the charts, but he's a mental wildcard.

[Really Clark?]

Maturity. Again. Not intelligence. What has his actions thusfar actually tangibly cost him? Not even a single damn game. Sure, his judgement is in question.

Actually, didn't it actually cost him the Clemson game this year? And it was the university that decided he needed to be suspended if I remember correctly.

[Really Clark?]

I think most NFL scouts see him as an elite prospect on the field, just below Luck level but needs more time. He is not ready to lead a team right out of the gate. About the same level as Stafford or Newton maybe a little above them according to a lot of scouts. But the off the field issues are a big concern. Some teams see it as just immaturity and he could grow out of it but there are several teams and heads of player personel in the NFL are thinking he may be as bad as Russell. It has even been reported that one director states that behind the scenes he is even worse than the public knows and is already toxic. Many believe he is not toxic yet but is getting close and needs to stay in college to prove he is growing up. The increase in interceptions is a concern but some of the issues they are writing off as the WR corp running bad routes (including 2 of his 4 int's in the Florida game) That's the gist of what I've read on his draft stock from scouts and reports.

[Political Hack]

I think most NFL scouts see him as an elite prospect on the field, just below Luck level but needs more time. He is not ready to lead a team right out of the gate. About the same level as Stafford or Newton maybe a little above them according to a lot of scouts. But the off the field issues are a big concern. Some teams see it as just immaturity and he could grow out of it but there are several teams and heads of player personel in the NFL are thinking he may be as bad as Russell. It has even been reported that one director states that behind the scenes he is even worse than the public knows and is already toxic. Many believe he is not toxic yet but is getting close and needs to stay in college to prove he is growing up. The increase in interceptions is a concern but some of the issues they are writing off as the WR corp running bad routes (including 2 of his 4 int's in the Florida game) That's the gist of what I've read on his draft stock from scouts and reports.

he doesn't need to be in the same sentence with Luck. They're not even close due to Luck's intangibles.

[Todd4State]

Actually, didn't it actually cost him the Clemson game this year? And it was the university that decided he needed to be suspended if I remember correctly.

Yes, that was the suspension for the vulgar language.

[RougeDawg]

he doesn't need to be in the same sentence with Luck. They're not even close due to Luck's intangibles.

Exactly. Winston shouldn't even be in the same paragraph as Luck. Winston against decent defensive competition will not end well. Crab stealer hasn't even played half of the college defensive competition that Stafford or Scam played against. The ACC is garbage, plain and simple.

[Really Clark?]

he doesn't need to be in the same sentence with Luck. They're not even close due to Luck's intangibles.

That's just what several scouts are saying and like I said that's strickly for on the field. Obviously the intangibles are what are separating them. I personally don't draft him in the 1st round even if I need a QB. Too big a risk right now...a year from now I would see where his head is at then.

[Really Clark?]

Exactly. Winston shouldn't even be in the same paragraph as Luck. Winston against decent defensive competition will not end well. Crab stealer hasn't even played half of the college defensive competition that Stafford or Scam played against. The ACC is garbage, plain and simple.

Sorry but that wasn't my thinking that's from multiple scouts.

[Political Hack]

That's just what several scouts are saying and like I said that's strickly for on the field. Obviously the intangibles are what are separating them. I personally don't draft him in the 1st round even if I need a QB. Too big a risk right now...a year from now I would see where his head is at then.

feel the same way. I wouldn't touch him until the late 2nd or 3rd. Hell, the Seahawks got Russell in the 3rd.

[Really Clark?]

feel the same way. I wouldn't touch him until the late 2nd or 3rd. Hell, the Seahawks got Russell in the 3rd.

I agree completely.

[Todd4State]

I think what happens a lot of times to guys that are drafted in the first round as QB's is they aren't given a lot of time to develop like they need to and a lot of times they go to a crappy team on top of everything else.

Joe Montana was drafted in the third round and was a back-up in year one and then was kind of like a co-starter in year two before they finally gave him the job. Tom Brady was behind Drew Bledsoe for a little while. Aaron Rogers was behind Favre.

If Winston fails, it's most likely because he is going to be expected to take over a team like the Buccaneers on day one and doesn't have the supporting cast around him to succeed. Actually, him acting like an idiot may drop him enough where someone like the Saints take a chance on him and make him learn from someone like Brees for a couple of years and then they can make sure that he isn't a trouble maker without killing the franchise. Like Leaf.

[scottycameron]

I think what happens a lot of times to guys that are drafted in the first round as QB's is they aren't given a lot of time to develop like they need to and a lot of times they go to a crappy team on top of everything else.

Joe Montana was drafted in the third round and was a back-up in year one and then was kind of like a co-starter in year two before they finally gave him the job. Tom Brady was behind Drew Bledsoe for a little while. Aaron Rogers was behind Favre.

If Winston fails, it's most likely because he is going to be expected to take over a team like the Buccaneers on day one and doesn't have the supporting cast around him to succeed. Actually, him acting like an idiot may drop him enough where someone like the Saints take a chance on him and make him learn from someone like Brees for a couple of years and then they can make sure that he isn't a trouble maker without killing the franchise. Like Leaf.

I agree 100%. It's best to ease in without the weight of the world on you. Both Mannings did it, easily, so did big Ben and even Rivers. But it is better to not have to. Montana, Brady, and Rogers were all smart kids, though, and didn't have rape and theft charges attached to them. Just stand up good kids, so I don't know if Winston translates. They are a totally different animal. As I said we can all wring hands over this but time will tell. I'm usually not wrong on this stuff but we will see. The best NFL scout I ever read about had a great formula for evaluating college kids. Outside of athletic ability he focused on one thing - how do they treat women in their life? It tells you all you need to know about them. How you treat women was his litmus test to determine pieces of shit. This was a long time ago and I've always kept track of it. Amazingly accurate. Check it out yourself and see what you come up with.

[Todd4State]

I agree 100%. It's best to ease in without the weight of the world on you. Both Mannings did it, easily, so did big Ben and even Rivers. But it is better to not have to. Montana, Brady, and Rogers were all smart kids, though, and didn't have rape and theft charges attached to them. Just stand up good kids, so I don't know if Winston translates. They are a totally different animal. As I said we can all wring hands over this but time will tell. I'm usually not wrong on this stuff but we will see. The best NFL scout I ever read about had a great formula for evaluating college kids. Outside of athletic ability he focused on one thing - how do they treat women in their life? It tells you all you need to know about them. How you treat women was his litmus test to determine pieces of shit. This was a long time ago and I've always kept track of it. Amazingly accurate. Check it out yourself and see what you come up with.

Well, I know Joe Montana has been married at least twice.

[Dawg61]

But he wasn't an NBA player and that is the point. It's not an exact science. So much comes into play. Bias did nothing because of a cocaine overdose. We've seen great players who do nothing because of career ending injuries. Vick lost a few years to prison.

I don't really have an opinion on Winston, but I do know that he is not guaranteed success just because "everybody" says he has all the tools.

Len Bias died two days after being drafted.

[dawgs]

Well, I know Joe Montana has been married at least twice.

You can get divorced and remarried without cheating on your wife and fathering kids out of your marriage/relationship.

[dawgs]

I think what happens a lot of times to guys that are drafted in the first round as QB's is they aren't given a lot of time to develop like they need to and a lot of times they go to a crappy team on top of everything else.

Joe Montana was drafted in the third round and was a back-up in year one and then was kind of like a co-starter in year two before they finally gave him the job. Tom Brady was behind Drew Bledsoe for a little while. Aaron Rogers was behind Favre.

If Winston fails, it's most likely because he is going to be expected to take over a team like the Buccaneers on day one and doesn't have the supporting cast around him to succeed. Actually, him acting like an idiot may drop him enough where someone like the Saints take a chance on him and make him learn from someone like Brees for a couple of years and then they can make sure that he isn't a trouble maker without killing the franchise. Like Leaf.

The bucs are actually in decent shape offensively for a rookie QB to come in and have success. Evans and jackson are a good QR duo. The running game has potential. With a better QB, they could definitely improve quickly.

As for QBs that start from day 1 v. sitting for a year or 2, I honestly don't think it matters that much as to whether a guy makes it or not. It's about having the opportunity and potential around them to let them succeed, whether they start from day 1 or ride the bench several years. I think Rodgers would've likely developed into the QB he is today if he'd started for the packers from day 1, just like peyton would've still been the QB he is today if he had ridden the bench a couple seasons. i can't think of many QBs I could see having a significantly different path had they started or backed up their early years.

[Dawg61]

The bucs are actually in decent shape offensively for a rookie QB to come in and have success. Evans and jackson are a good QR duo. The running game has potential. With a better QB, they could definitely improve quickly.

As for QBs that start from day 1 v. sitting for a year or 2, I honestly don't think it matters that much as to whether a guy makes it or not. It's about having the opportunity and potential around them to let them succeed, whether they start from day 1 or ride the bench several years. I think Rodgers would've likely developed into the QB he is today if he'd started for the packers from day 1, just like peyton would've still been the QB he is today if he had ridden the bench a couple seasons. i can't think of many QBs I could see having a significantly different path had they started or backed up their early years.

Tebow would still have a job if he hadn't gone 8-5 with a playoff win. Fu@king absurd he doesn't have a job as a backup at least right now. Imagine if he'd sat for three years and then went 8-5 and took a 4-12 team into the playoffs. Oh wait he did do that just didn't sit for three years.

[dawgs]

Tebow would still have a job if he hadn't gone 8-5 with a playoff win. Fu@king absurd he doesn't have a job as a backup at least right now. Imagine if he'd sat for three years and then went 8-5 and took a 4-12 team into the playoffs. Oh wait he did do that just didn't sit for three years.

Tebow doesn't have a job because his passing mechanics and his reading the defense was terrible as evidenced by his 47.9% career completion %. If coaches thought he could've improved that to 60%, he'd still probably be a backup.

[Dawg61]

Tebow doesn't have a job because his passing mechanics and his reading the defense was terrible as evidenced by his 47.9% career completion %. If coaches thought he could've improved that to 60%, he'd still probably be a backup.

How many rushing yards did he have? 8-5 with a playoff win. He doesn't have a job because no team wants to deal with the Tebowmania that comes with him. Not worth it to them. Even though he's better than 30 bums getting checks right now.

[HSVDawg]

Um yes. Winston is an elite qb. He is a protypical pocket nfl passer. He is more big ben that rg3. He doesnt even move real well.

He has a cannon and is huge. His problems are off the field. If he cleans that up, he can be an elite nfl qb. He can put the ball anywhere he wants.

Winston also is very smart and highly intelligent. He does stupid things but he has a very high IQ

You had me until you said he was highly intelligent. Lets see what the Wonderlic has to say about that. Nobody questions his physical tools, but in my opinion he is the latest and greatest of the "can't miss" QB's that will not be willing to put in the required work in the film room and in off-season workouts that is required to be successful in the NFL. He will likely be the same as Cam Newton and RGIII in that regard, who both haven't tried to put anything into becoming elite passers. Then you have all the off the field stuff which is a separate issue entirely.

[Mutt the Hoople]

Intelligence and maturity/decision-making are VERY different things. Unless you want to argue that there are no intelligent criminals and no intelligent "bad" people in the world, which is....unintelligent...

Sociopaths are very intelligent.

[engie]

But y'all said she waited a year to accuse him and just was chasing money! That's false, winston wasn't really known to anyone but big time CFB fans that followed recruiting when he was accused. That chick had some serious foresight to know he'd win the heisman and be a 1st round NFL talent.

She "let it go" for a year until his name blew up and they leaked details of the case to the public to try to force movement in a case where she had no evidence.

You REALLY don't think kids at FSU knew about what was going to be a first round baseball player that decided to play football at FSU, the #1 dual threat in the country, who everyone already know was going to be their next QB?

I'm sure MSU fans and students wouldn't have known Cam Newton had he walked on campus either**

[thf24]

You had me until you said he was highly intelligent.

Some of you are going to be real surprised when the Wonderlic scores come out. As has already been said, extreme immaturity does not equal lack of intelligence.

[dawgs]

She "let it go" for a year until his name blew up and they leaked details of the case to the public to try to force movement in a case where she had no evidence.

You REALLY don't think kids at FSU knew about what was going to be a first round baseball player that decided to play football at FSU, the #1 dual threat in the country, who everyone already know was going to be their next QB?

I'm sure MSU fans and students wouldn't have known Cam Newton had he walked on campus either**

Something tells me if your daughter went through a rape kit and was willing to fight for herself, all while having her name and private sexual acts made public, then you'd be singing a different tune.

And yes, I don't think most sorority girls would know redshirt freshmen football players by face, or most baseball players.

[Bo Darville]

Len Bias died two days after being drafted.

I am aware of that. And it is hard to be productive in the league when you are dead. That is kinda my point.

The point is that nothing is a sure thing. There are no players that are guaranteed successes. Therefore, just because 32 of 32 teams think a guy will be successful, doesn't make it so. Shit happens. Guys get hurt, or guys lose motivation, or whatever. Nothing is a sure thing. I don't know about Winston. I don't really have an opinion. But just because every scout and GM thinks he will succeed doesn't guarantee it.

A poster said Winston would be a failure and then the poster was called stupid because "everybody" that is qualified says otherwise. Bottom line is that nobody knows because you can't predict the future. If scouts and GM's could predict the future then they would just go to Las Vegas and break the place.

[engie]

Something tells me if your daughter went through a rape kit and was willing to fight for herself, all while having her name and private sexual acts made public, then you'd be singing a different tune.

And yes, I don't think most sorority girls would know redshirt freshmen football players by face, or most baseball players.

Ahhh -- the convenient swapping of this from a legal issue to a moral issue when you know your viewpoint has been a bad one. I'm confused where I have condoned Jameis Winston's actions -- can you please point them out to me?

And your last sentence just goes to show just how detached from reality that you are. Holy. Shit.

[I seen it dawg]

I am aware of that. And it is hard to be productive in the league when you are dead. That is kinda my point.

The point is that nothing is a sure thing. There are no players that are guaranteed successes. Therefore, just because 32 of 32 teams think a guy will be successful, doesn't make it so. Shit happens. Guys get hurt, or guys lose motivation, or whatever. Nothing is a sure thing. I don't know about Winston. I don't really have an opinion. But just because every scout and GM thinks he will succeed doesn't guarantee it.

A poster said Winston would be a failure and then the poster was called stupid because "everybody" that is qualified says otherwise. Bottom line is that nobody knows because you can't predict the future. If scouts and GM's could predict the future then they would just go to Las Vegas and break the place.

Easy killer.....that's wayyyyyy too much common sense

[dawgs]

Ahhh -- the convenient swapping of this from a legal issue to a moral issue when you know your viewpoint has been a bad one. I'm confused where I have condoned Jameis Winston's actions -- can you please point them out to me?

And your last sentence just goes to show just how detached from reality that you are. Holy. Shit.

Do you know how invasive a rape kit is? Why submit yourself to that early the next morning when you weren't actually raped? That's an awfully quick formulation of a plan to shakedown a football player that's never played in anticipation that he's gonna become a future first round pick. There may not be enough evidence to convict winston, but imo the girl's actions since the rape are highly indicative of someone that believes she was raped, not someone that consented and decided to go for money or got jealous over other chicks or something. She would have long ago let the shit go if she believed she consented but was lying. Who wants to go through a rape kit? Who wants to have your private sexual life made public? What college girl wants their parents to know their sex life? It just doesn't add up to me that she'd be lying.

And yes, please take a bunch of pictures of our current redshirts and go ask random girls on campus to identify them by name. I'd bet 75% couldn't name a single one of them and most of the ones that could wouldn't be able to identify more than a couple. Then ask them to identify our freshmen baseball players by name who have not taken the field yet (since the alleged rape happened in December, winston hadn't played baseball yet). I'd bet the number is over 90%. And most of those that identify them know them personally from the dorms or parties or class. probably near 100% of the girls you'd ask wouldn't be able to identify any of the pics by name of they already didn't have a personal relationship with the player. Just because you are a 40 year old that memorizes recruiting pics of 17 year olds doesn't mean the average college girl does too.

[dawgs]

I am aware of that. And it is hard to be productive in the league when you are dead. That is kinda my point.

The point is that nothing is a sure thing. There are no players that are guaranteed successes. Therefore, just because 32 of 32 teams think a guy will be successful, doesn't make it so. Shit happens. Guys get hurt, or guys lose motivation, or whatever. Nothing is a sure thing. I don't know about Winston. I don't really have an opinion. But just because every scout and GM thinks he will succeed doesn't guarantee it.

A poster said Winston would be a failure and then the poster was called stupid because "everybody" that is qualified says otherwise. Bottom line is that nobody knows because you can't predict the future. If scouts and GM's could predict the future then they would just go to Las Vegas and break the place.

There's dozens/hundreds of NBA busts you could cite to better support your point than Len bias.

[Tbonewannabe]

Ahhh -- the convenient swapping of this from a legal issue to a moral issue when you know your viewpoint has been a bad one. I'm confused where I have condoned Jameis Winston's actions -- can you please point them out to me?

And your last sentence just goes to show just how detached from reality that you are. Holy. Shit.

Supposedly she didn't know his name until she was in a big class he was in and waited to hear his name called. She then went immediately to the cop that was supposed to be investigating.

I couldn't pick out any baseball player that hasn't played and I actually follow baseball. I would say only maybe 10% of sorority girls could pick out anyone that hasn't played. Right now I couldn't pick Staly or Fitz out of a lineup.

[dawgs]

Supposedly she didn't know his name until she was in a big class he was in and waited to hear his name called. She then went immediately to the cop that was supposed to be investigating.

I couldn't pick out any baseball player that hasn't played and I actually follow baseball. I would say only maybe 10% of sorority girls could pick out anyone that hasn't played. Right now I couldn't pick Staly or Fitz out of a lineup.

You're totally detached from reality if you don't have faces memorized of every msu player in the big 3 sports.****

[Tbonewannabe]

You're totally detached from reality if you don't have faces memorized of every msu player in the big 3 sports.****

I just can't keep up when they get haircuts it totally throws me off.

[dawgs]

• The Bucs will have a delegation, led by GM Jason Licht, at the Rose Bowl Thursday to see Oregon quarterback Marcus Mariota duel Florida State’s Jameis Winston. I recently asked five GM/personnel types in the NFL about the two players, and it came out the way I thought: 5-0 in favor of Mariota, because of on-field and off-field things, including the fact that Winston, in the words of one team official who is in the market for a quarterback high in the draft, got careless on the field this year and played some undisciplined football. We won’t really know about how high Winston goes, though, until teams do their post-season homework on him.

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/12/29/what-happened-with-harbaugh-and-the-niners/2/

[RougeDawg]

Actually, didn't it actually cost him the Clemson game this year? And it was the university that decided he needed to be suspended if I remember correctly.

You notice engie didn't respond to this one because he was once again called on his bullshit posts, trying to discredit someone else with inaccurate information?

[RougeDawg]

She "let it go" for a year until his name blew up and they leaked details of the case to the public to try to force movement in a case where she had no evidence.

You REALLY don't think kids at FSU knew about what was going to be a first round baseball player that decided to play football at FSU, the #1 dual threat in the country, who everyone already know was going to be their next QB?

I'm sure MSU fans and students wouldn't have known Cam Newton had he walked on campus either**

She didn't "let it go" for a year. She reported the rape soon after and the Tallahassee and FSU police departments drug their feet for almost a year. Seriously do you just disregard the facts and just believe what you want to believe is true? She reported it very soon after because she noticed his face durning the first couple weeks of fall class. She recognized him and had to ask someone who he was. Guess those facts don't fit your narrative but you should do a lil more research before you attempt to discredit someone. Also, what f*cking college kids know and/or give a shit about who is a prospect of any sport?Thats ridiculous and a huge stretch.