Braves

[msstate7]

Right now it looks like...

C - bethancourt
1b - ff
2b - Peterson/callaspo
Ss - Simmons
3b - johnson/callaspo
LF - gattis
Cf - bj
Rf - markakis

Teheran
Wood
Minor
Miller
?

Kimbrel
Johnson
Grilli
Simmons
Russell

Almonte is an of'er to keep an eye on. He's having an outstanding winterball.

I hope we add a viable option for cf in case bj bombs again.

If we add a good 5th starter with the money we've saved by getting rid of jup, I think our pitching staff will be outstanding.

I'm a little worried about our OF defense since we're downgrading defensivly by adding markakis and gattis.

I know we should be downgrading offensively by losing jup, but I don't think we will. I like adding OBP. I think gattis will have a huge year offensively with more guys on base and not having the wear and tear of catching. We need bj to be around .230/15-20 hr's/20 sb's. I think Simmons and johnson will be better than last year.

If we do bomb, I think we could trade grilli, Jim Johnson, Chris Johnson, gattis, or even kimbrel for some really good prospects at the break.

I like where we're headed for '17, but I'm not ready to just give up on '15 yet.

Thoughts?

[dawgs]

Over/under how many more seasons braves' fans try to convince themselves that this season they are getting a .240 20-20 season out of bj?

[MetEdDawg]

Right now it looks like...

C - bethancourt
1b - ff
2b - Peterson/callaspo
Ss - Simmons
3b - johnson/callaspo
LF - gattis
Cf - bj
Rf - markakis

Teheran
Wood
Minor
Miller
?

Kimbrel
Johnson
Grilli
Simmons
Russell

Almonte is an of'er to keep an eye on. He's having an outstanding winterball.

I hope we add a viable option for cf in case bj bombs again.

If we add a good 5th starter with the money we've saved by getting rid of jup, I think our pitching staff will be outstanding.

I'm a little worried about our OF defense since we're downgrading defensivly by adding markakis and gattis.

I know we should be downgrading offensively by losing jup, but I don't think we will. I like adding OBP. I think gattis will have a huge year offensively with more guys on base and not having the wear and tear of catching. We need bj to be around .230/15-20 hr's/20 sb's. I think Simmons and johnson will be better than last year.

If we do bomb, I think we could trade grilli, Jim Johnson, Chris Johnson, gattis, or even kimbrel for some really good prospects at the break.

I like where we're headed for '17, but I'm not ready to just give up on '15 yet.

Thoughts?

There are a couple different things that concern me here:

1) Can Gattis hold up over the course of a season? Our power is lacking tremendously. If Gattis doesn't hold up we could have some serious problems scoring runs because Freeman is probably the only other guy in the lineup that will hit more than 15 homers. Hopefully him not catching will help.

2) How much daily lineup turnover is there going to be? Fredi constantly had to tinker with the lineup last year to get guys going because of how streaky their play was. Can guys find more consistency in their play and not go in these massive slumps that leave us scoring 14 runs over 8 or 9 games?

3) Minor and whoever the 5th starter is going to be. Minor has got to improve or we have to get rid of him a go a different direction. We can't keep a 4 ERA 20+ HR given up a year guy in the starting rotation forever. Can he get his ERA below 3.5 and give up fewer long balls early in games.

This team has a lot of things I don't like about it. BJ, Gattis in LF, very little power, some question marks in the starting rotation, and an overall lack of star power outside of Freeman and Kimbrel. But there are a couple things I do like. I think the bullpen is strong, I think there is a lot less swing and miss in the lineup, and we've helped out the upper portion of our minor league system a little bit. I think the personality of this team is going to be better this year and if these guys can gel they could do more than most expect.

[msstate7]

Over/under how many more seasons braves' fans try to convince themselves that this season they are getting a .240 20-20 season out of bj?

He was .208 12 hr's 20 sb's last season. I don't think my expectations are too farfetched. He's certainly done it before.

[MetEdDawg]

He was .208 12 hr's 20 sb's last season. I don't think my expectations are too farfetched. He's certainly done it before.

I'm wondering if there will be any change now that his brother is gone. Not sure if that will make a difference but it might. Still don't think he will hit 20 HRs but if he can get that BA up to .230 or .240 he could get up to 30-35 SBs and really help this lineup out during a transition phase.

[msstate7]

I'm wondering if there will be any change now that his brother is gone. Not sure if that will make a difference but it might. Still don't think he will hit 20 HRs but if he can get that BA up to .230 or .240 he could get up to 30-35 SBs and really help this lineup out during a transition phase.

I agree. I'd rather have .230-240 with increase sb's than .210 and more hr's

[War Machine Dawg]

Right now it looks like...

C - bethancourt
1b - ff
2b - Peterson/callaspo
Ss - Simmons
3b - johnson/callaspo
LF - gattis
Cf - bj
Rf - markakis

Teheran
Wood
Minor
Miller
?

Kimbrel
Johnson
Grilli
Simmons
Russell

Almonte is an of'er to keep an eye on. He's having an outstanding winterball.

I hope we add a viable option for cf in case bj bombs again.

If we add a good 5th starter with the money we've saved by getting rid of jup, I think our pitching staff will be outstanding.

I'm a little worried about our OF defense since we're downgrading defensivly by adding markakis and gattis.

I know we should be downgrading offensively by losing jup, but I don't think we will. I like adding OBP. I think gattis will have a huge year offensively with more guys on base and not having the wear and tear of catching. We need bj to be around .230/15-20 hr's/20 sb's. I think Simmons and johnson will be better than last year.

If we do bomb, I think we could trade grilli, Jim Johnson, Chris Johnson, gattis, or even kimbrel for some really good prospects at the break.

I like where we're headed for '17, but I'm not ready to just give up on '15 yet.

Thoughts?

I don't think we're downgrading significantly in RF. Markakis is vastly underrated out there and a multi-time Gold Glove winner in his own right. We'll be just fine there. If BJ wastes a roster spot for us this season, I'm going to be pissed.

Don't forget the kid in AA at 2B. Fredi is going to give him a shot to win the job during Spring Training. Fredi also said if he didn't win it then he wouldn't be surprised if he's ready to come up full time within the first 30-40 games. He'd provide us with the prototypical leadoff guy we've been missing, assuming he lives up to billing.

I'm kinda pissed we got rid of J-Up. I was hoping we'd try to re-sign him, since we traded J-Hey. But I understand what Hart is doing trying to restock the farm system and we got some good prospects for both of those guys.

Not too worried about the rotation. We're going to try to re-sign Medlen/Beachy for a lower price, so don't rule one of them out as the 5th starter. There's also talk of bringing back Harang, which I'd be ok with after how well he did for us last season. Wish we could've convinced Santana to come back. One thing I never really worry about with the Braves is pitching. We'll find someone who's solid.

I don't see this club doing much in '15, but we aren't trading the young core like Kimbrel. I could definitely see us moving Grilli and the Johnsons by the deadline if we're way out of contention, though. I think we're also going to keep Gattis, now that we've dealt J-Up. Guys with his power don't come along every day.

[TopDog58]

Medlen signed with the Royals.

[MS_half-step]

Medlen already signed with KC, major league 2 yr deal with an option for 3rd year. Too risky for me. Beachy is done, but hear the Rangers are kicking the tires. Hale/Russell will be your 5th starter and you'll like it.

[BoomBoom]

Pitching wins pennants. If Minor makes an adjustment and returns to form, then that may be the best rotation in the division. On the other hand, it usually takes a better manager than Fredi to win with pitching. Kind of hard to win a pennant with no offense when you let the worst guy in the pen blow 10 games for you, with better pitchers warming pine.

[msstate7]

Is Chris young (Mariners) still a free agent? If so, id like to sign him as 5th starter. Well if he will sign a 1 or 2 year deal relatively cheap

[msstate7]

If Chris denorfia is available, he might not be a bad signing. He can play all 3 of positions

[smootness]

I like where we're headed for '17, but I'm not ready to just give up on '15 yet.

Thoughts?

You need to give up on '15. That is about a 65-win team right now.

[msstate7]

You need to give up on '15. That is about a 65-win team right now.

No way the pitching allows that. This will be a great staff. If you said 75, I wouldn't have argued. 65 too low imo though

[dawgs]

Pitching wins pennants. If Minor makes an adjustment and returns to form, then that may be the best rotation in the division.

Unless about 3 nats pitchers get injured and/or have career worse seasons, not a chance the Braves have the best rotation, good minor or not.

[Tbonewannabe]

Any chance the Braves could get Tyler Moore? I read an article talking about Washington just doesn't have room for him. He has had flashes but he isn't getting much of a chance.

[Political Hack]

you can win with that staff, but there are huge holes in the lineup and now in LF defensively with Gattis. I love the guy, but he's a DH/C. He'd be a better AL player and I think they could probably get more value for him if they were to trade him there.

When you've got automatic outs at P and CF on e every time through the lineup it puts too much pressure on the other guys to perform. That's got to be fixed and I have ZERO confidence in BJ ever hitting .240+ with a decent on base percentage.

[shoeless joe]

you can win with that staff, but there are huge holes in the lineup and now in LF defensively with Gattis. I love the guy, but he's a DH/C. He'd be a better AL player and I think they could probably get more value for him if they were to trade him there.

When you've got automatic outs at P and CF on e every time through the lineup it puts too much pressure on the other guys to perform. That's got to be fixed and I have ZERO confidence in BJ ever hitting .240+ with a decent on base percentage.

Don't forget that the braves won titles with Ryan klesko in LF. Gattis' defense will not be the reason this team doesn't win. And while I'm not expecting much from BJ there will definitely be a different clubhouse dynamic this year. I think it's obvious that that has been a goal of hart and shuerholz from the beginning, and I'm interested to see how it affects all players but BJ in particular.

[dawgs]

Don't forget that the braves won titles with Ryan klesko in LF. Gattis' defense will not be the reason this team doesn't win.

Klesko was surrounded by a lot more talent than gattis. Also, when you have a lot less talent in the lineup, the defensive liabilities are that much bigger of a red flag because the bats are less likely to make up the difference.

[Political Hack]

I agree Gattis isn't the death blow, but also agree with Dawgs. there's a lot of unproductive at bats in that lineup. not getting to Texas leaguer out in left field because El Oso Blanco runs like a walrus will eventually cost you.

[msstate7]

I agree Gattis isn't the death blow, but also agree with Dawgs. there's a lot of unproductive at bats in that lineup. not getting to Texas leaguer out in left field because El Oso Blanco runs like a walrus will eventually cost you.

Never, never agree with dawgs when it comes to the braves and Oregon. Never!***

[Political Hack]

Never, never agree with dawgs when it comes to the braves and Oregon. Never!***

lol. hard to suggest they're going to be good enough offensively to survive any defensive liabilities.

[msstate7]

I think losing jup can be canceled out by gattis getting to play daily in a position that doesn't hurt him as much physically along with johnson and Simmons having better offensive years. Also going to better OBP, freeman and gattis should get more rbi opportunities.

Despite having such an abysmal offensive (2nd worse in mlb) year, the Braves won 79 games last year bc of really solid pitching. We've upgraded the pitching even more.

I think you'll see a couple more signings by the Braves before spring training. We're way under budget right now so we've got money to play with.

[shoeless joe]

Offensively this team reminds me of a lot of 80s early 90s teams that had success. And that seems to be where the game is headed back to. Let me add that I don't think this team will contend for much this year. I would be ecstatic with a .500 campaign...but stranger things have happened

[Political Hack]

Offensively this team reminds me of a lot of 80s early 90s teams that had success. And that seems to be where the game is headed back to. Let me add that I don't think this team will contend for much this year. I would be ecstatic with a .500 campaign...but stranger things have happened

feel the same.

[Dawg61]

Braves lineup looks awful. I expect the Marlins to finish above the Braves this year.

[dawgs]

Braves lineup looks awful. I expect the Marlins to finish above the Braves this year.

+1.

Marlins are probably 1-2 seasons away from competing for the east if the make the right moves, guys like yelich and ozuna continue to develop to strengthen the lineup, stanton stays healthy, and Fernandez bounces back strong from TJ surgery.

[msstate7]

Braves lineup looks awful. I expect the Marlins to finish above the Braves this year.

Odds of winning the World Series, per Bovada:

15/2 - Los Angeles Dodgers
9/1 - Boston Red Sox
10/1 - Los Angeles Angels
10/1 - Washington Nationals
12/1 - Chicago Cubs
12/1 - Detroit Tigers
16/1 - San Francisco Giants
16/1 - Seattle Mariners
16/1 - St. Louis Cardinals
18/1 - Toronto Blue Jays
20/1 - Baltimore Orioles
25/1 - Chicago White Sox
25/1 - Kansas City Royals
25/1 - New York Mets
25/1 - New York Yankees
25/1 - San Diego Padres
28/1 - Atlanta Braves
33/1 - Cleveland Indians
33/1 - Miami Marlins
33/1 - Pittsburgh Pirates
40/1 - Milwaukee Brewers
40/1 - Oakland Athletics
40/1 - Texas Rangers
50/1 - Cincinnati Reds
66/1 - Tampa Bay Rays
100/1 - Arizona Diamondbacks
100/1 - Colorado Rockies
150/1 - Houston Astros
150/1 - Minnesota Twins
150/1 - Philadelphia Phillies

http://sports.bovada.lv/sports-betting/baseball-futures.jsp

According to them, they think east shakes out like this...

1. Nats
2. Mets
3. Braves
4. Marlins
5. Phillies

[dawgs]

28/1 v. 33/1 ain't that much difference for december

[msstate7]

28/1 v. 33/1 ain't that much difference for december
Mets 25/1 is even closer. So bovada thinks braves closer to 2nd place than 4th

[dawgs]

Mets 25/1 is even closer. So bovada thinks braves closer to 2nd place than 4th

Throwing darts between those 3 imo

[msstate7]

Throwing darts between those 3 imo

No argument. Nats should win division. Hopefully nats play down to the division

[Dawg61]

Odds of winning the World Series, per Bovada:

15/2 - Los Angeles Dodgers
9/1 - Boston Red Sox
10/1 - Los Angeles Angels
10/1 - Washington Nationals
12/1 - Chicago Cubs
12/1 - Detroit Tigers
16/1 - San Francisco Giants
16/1 - Seattle Mariners
16/1 - St. Louis Cardinals
18/1 - Toronto Blue Jays
20/1 - Baltimore Orioles
25/1 - Chicago White Sox
25/1 - Kansas City Royals
25/1 - New York Mets
25/1 - New York Yankees
25/1 - San Diego Padres
28/1 - Atlanta Braves
33/1 - Cleveland Indians
33/1 - Miami Marlins
33/1 - Pittsburgh Pirates
40/1 - Milwaukee Brewers
40/1 - Oakland Athletics
40/1 - Texas Rangers
50/1 - Cincinnati Reds
66/1 - Tampa Bay Rays
100/1 - Arizona Diamondbacks
100/1 - Colorado Rockies
150/1 - Houston Astros
150/1 - Minnesota Twins
150/1 - Philadelphia Phillies

http://sports.bovada.lv/sports-betting/baseball-futures.jsp

According to them, they think east shakes out like this...

1. Nats
2. Mets
3. Braves
4. Marlins
5. Phillies

Braves got super lucky the first half of the season with guys like Harang and Santana. I don't think they get unexpected luck like that again this year and the bats are looking really bad.

[msstate7]

Braves got super lucky the first half of the season with guys like Harang and Santana. I don't think they get unexpected luck like that again this year and the bats are looking really bad.

If you're going to count the "luck" of Santana and harang, you've gotta count the unluckiness of minor having his worst stretch in his career and Floyd's elbow exploding

[dawgs]

If you're going to count the "luck" of Santana and harang, you've gotta count the unluckiness of minor having his worst stretch in his career and Floyd's elbow exploding

Floyd only pitched 24 innings in 2013 and hasn't thrown 200 innings or put up an era under 4.00 since 2008. Y'all were probably better off with a lot of his potential innings going to Alex wood instead.

[Dawg61]

If you're going to count the "luck" of Santana and harang, you've gotta count the unluckiness of minor having his worst stretch in his career and Floyd's elbow exploding

No you're reaching for hope. Braves had a sub 2 era for their starting pitching staff some 40 games into the season. They got off to a MLB record for ERA start. Impossible for them to match it again. Won't happen and we know the offense has gotten worse. Sorry man you're in a rebuilding year.

[BoomBoom]

No you're reaching for hope. Braves had a sub 2 era for their starting pitching staff some 40 games into the season. They got off to a MLB record for ERA start. Impossible for them to match it again. Won't happen and we know the offense has gotten worse. Sorry man you're in a rebuilding year.

anytime you own the supposed division front runner head to head, you've got a chance. but seriously, the point everyone is missing here is that a great pitching team does not need an offense that beats up on bad pitching but can't do a thing against a great pitcher. that leads to 10-1 wins and multiple 1-0 and 2-1 losses. sure this offense may average a half run less a game, but it will be a consistent offense, not a feast or famine one, and that should lead to more wins with great pitching, and there's a decent chance that improvement elsewhere leads to an even better offense.

quirky stats i just noticed: BJupton had basically as many Runs as Heyward or JUpton, and had a higher OBP than Andrelton, and a 0.6 OWar. He's not the complete hole some think he is, he's just average for a CF when he got elite money. A proper platoon for him and Chris Johnson could be quite a bit more productive than the Braves got from those positions in 2014. That's another overlooked point, the Braves bench last year was a bigger hole than BJUpton was. when you are next to last in baseball in offense, there's a hell of a lot more places to improve than just 2 OF spots. you can lose a little there and still improve overall. then again, Constanza is still on the 40 man roster.......

[dawgs]

"Owning" is have a losing record against a team from June through the end of the season now?

[Political Hack]

anytime you own the supposed division front runner head to head, you've got a chance. but seriously, the point everyone is missing here is that a great pitching team does not need an offense that beats up on bad pitching but can't do a thing against a great pitcher. that leads to 10-1 wins and multiple 1-0 and 2-1 losses. sure this offense may average a half run less a game, but it will be a consistent offense, not a feast or famine one, and that should lead to more wins with great pitching, and there's a decent chance that improvement elsewhere leads to an even better offense.

quirky stats i just noticed: BJupton had basically as many Runs as Heyward or JUpton, and had a higher OBP than Andrelton, and a 0.6 OWar. He's not the complete hole some think he is, he's just average for a CF when he got elite money. A proper platoon for him and Chris Johnson could be quite a bit more productive than the Braves got from those positions in 2014. That's another overlooked point, the Braves bench last year was a bigger hole than BJUpton was. when you are next to last in baseball in offense, there's a hell of a lot more places to improve than just 2 OF spots. you can lose a little there and still improve overall. then again, Constanza is still on the 40 man roster.......

if his BA would go up, his OBP would be good enough to be a leadoff man. The guy can fly once the ball is in play, but he can't lead off and he strikes out too much to bat in the meat of the order.

I do agree that it's A LOT more than just him, but a lot of it gets thrown at him because everyone wanted him to be a leadoff, base stealing, run machine with that kind of $.

[smootness]

I think losing jup can be canceled out by gattis getting to play daily in a position that doesn't hurt him as much physically along with johnson and Simmons having better offensive years. Also going to better OBP, freeman and gattis should get more rbi opportunities.

Despite having such an abysmal offensive (2nd worse in mlb) year, the Braves won 79 games last year bc of really solid pitching. We've upgraded the pitching even more.

I think you'll see a couple more signings by the Braves before spring training. We're way under budget right now so we've got money to play with.

We had an abysmal offense last year, and it's become unquestionably worse. And while Miller has more talent than Harang, Harang pitched really well last year. So we lose Harang and Santana and added Miller. Even with a bounce-back from Minor, we don't have a 5th starter right now. You can't say that right now our rotation is better than what we got last year. We lost Walden and Varvaro from the pen, added a question mark in Vizcaino along with Grilli and Johnson, who were mediocre to atrocious last year. Our bullpen isn't better.

We're a 75-win team if everything goes right. Betting lines mean nothing. Fangraphs projected our WAR to be 4th-worst in the entire league BEFORE giving up Upton. We lost close to 10 WAR in Upton and Heyward and haven't replaced it.

[msstate7]

We had an abysmal offense last year, and it's become unquestionably worse. And while Miller has more talent than Harang, Harang pitched really well last year. So we lose Harang and Santana and added Miller. Even with a bounce-back from Minor, we don't have a 5th starter right now. You can't say that right now our rotation is better than what we got last year. We lost Walden and Varvaro from the pen, added a question mark in Vizcaino along with Grilli and Johnson, who were mediocre to atrocious last year. Our bullpen isn't better.

We're a 75-win team if everything goes right. Betting lines mean nothing. Fangraphs projected our WAR to be 4th-worst in the entire league BEFORE giving up Upton. We lost close to 10 WAR in Upton and Heyward and haven't replaced it.

What did fangraphs predict last year? Bet it wasn't the eventual outcome.

I'm not saying we're gonna win the east. I'm just saying I don't think things are as bleak as most think

Also jhey's inflated war didn't tell the fact that he's totally worthless offensively vs lhp. Markakis will be a step down defensively, but he'll bring some offensive consistency.

We'll find a 5th starter.

[dawgs]

I can't find exactly what the WAR projections were on fangraphs, but the nats were significantly better I believe. Yet most of y'all seemed convinced the NL east was the Braves to lose.

[msstate7]

I can't find exactly what the WAR projections were on fangraphs, but the nats were significantly better I believe. Yet most of y'all seemed convinced the NL east was the Braves to lose.

Go Seminoles!***

[dawgs]

Go Seminoles!***

If you love chipper jones, it's clear you already don't have a problem cheering for trash. Can't imagine making the jump to jameis is that hard. ;)

[msstate7]

If you love chipper jones, it's clear you already don't have a problem cheering for trash. Can't imagine making the jump to jameis is that hard. ;)

Hey what school did that Blount kid go to that acted a fool against Boise state that time?

J/k... I know Winston is immensely more trashy than Blount

[shoeless joe]

If you love chipper jones, it's clear you already don't have a problem cheering for trash. Can't imagine making the jump to jameis is that hard. ;)

Please expound on how chipper is any trashier than >80% of all big leaguers? I am interested...

[dawgs]

Please expound on how chipper is any trashier than >80% of all big leaguers? I am interested...

Well he cheated on his 1st wife with a hooters waitress for over a year and had a kid with her. Then moved on to another woman who he married and had 3 children with. When it came time to divorce her and leave his kids, he was dating a playmate before the ink even dried (I'm sure nothing happened before hand, it just happened for the stars to align).

Now I'm not a prude and I'm all about playing the field, but if you are gonna get married and have kids, don't cheat. No one gives a shit how many chicks jeter ran through because he didn't get married and have kids and cheat.

[msstate7]

Well he cheated on his 1st wife with a hooters waitress for over a year and had a kid with her. Then moved on to another woman who he married and had 3 children with. When it came time to divorce her and leave his kids, he was dating a playmate before the ink even dried (I'm sure nothing happened before hand, it just happened for the stars to align).

Now I'm not a prude and I'm all about playing the field, but if you are gonna get married and have kids, don't cheat. No one gives a shit how many chicks jeter ran through because he didn't get married and have kids and cheat.

I'm really shocked about this. Who would've thought a professional athlete cheated on their wife?*

If we're looking for squeaky clean athletes to like, we'll most likely come up empty. For the most part, Im fans of athletes for their athletic ability, not their morals.

Certainly not condoning adultery...

[shoeless joe]

Well he cheated on his 1st wife with a hooters waitress for over a year and had a kid with her. Then moved on to another woman who he married and had 3 children with. When it came time to divorce her and leave his kids, he was dating a playmate before the ink even dried (I'm sure nothing happened before hand, it just happened for the stars to align).

Now I'm not a prude and I'm all about playing the field, but if you are gonna get married and have kids, don't cheat. No one gives a shit how many chicks jeter ran through because he didn't get married and have kids and cheat.


So exactly which pro teams are you a fan of? I am interested to know which ones don't have players that run around or have illegitimate children? Please do enlighten me...

I guess it is also safe to assume you would/were not a fan of the babe, Mickey mantle, or Michael Jordan?

For the record I don't care for chipper the TV personality/wannabe Huntin show guy...but as a player he was a studd and a professional and it was obvious that the clubhouse missed him and his ability to keep the bitch players in line. Losing chipper, McCann, and Hudson over the course of 2 seasons was one of the main reason I feel we've seen this slide.
Not because of their numbers but because they are leaders.

[msstate7]

So exactly which pro teams are you a fan of? I am interested to know which ones don't have players that run around or have illegitimate children? Please do enlighten me...

I guess it is also safe to assume you would/were not a fan of the babe, Mickey mantle, or Michael Jordan?

For the record I don't care for chipper the TV personality/wannabe Huntin show guy...but as a player he was a studd and a professional and it was obvious that the clubhouse missed him and his ability to keep the bitch players in line. Losing chipper, McCann, and Hudson over the course of 2 seasons was one of the main reason I feel we've seen this slide.
Not because of their numbers but because they are leaders.

The leadership factor is supposedly a big reason markakis was signed.

[Political Hack]

Chipper's awesome. Nicest guy you'll ever meet.

He was nice to his kids, his first wife, hooters waitresses, playmates, teammates, almost everyone.

[dawgs]

So exactly which pro teams are you a fan of? I am interested to know which ones don't have players that run around or have illegitimate children? Please do enlighten me...

I guess it is also safe to assume you would/were not a fan of the babe, Mickey mantle, or Michael Jordan?

For the record I don't care for chipper the TV personality/wannabe Huntin show guy...but as a player he was a studd and a professional and it was obvious that the clubhouse missed him and his ability to keep the bitch players in line. Losing chipper, McCann, and Hudson over the course of 2 seasons was one of the main reason I feel we've seen this slide.
Not because of their numbers but because they are leaders.

Well first of all there's a difference between illegitimate children out of wedlock and cheating on your wife to have said children. I don't care too much about the former (outside of wondering how guys like Shawn kemp and Travis Henry could have so many kids), but the latter indicates you are a scumbag imo.

I cheer for msu first and foremost. Then oregon (grad degree) and the Nationals (lived in dc 5 years and went to tons of games). I'm not a big NBA fan, closest team I somewhat follow is the Blazers, but to give you an idea of how much I care, I've watched about a half of a game total while they've been off to one of the best starts in the NBA. I watch a ton of NFL, but I'm not really a big fan of anyone. I have certain players I like individually, but really I just wanna see good football games.

[shoeless joe]

Well first of all there's a difference between illegitimate children out of wedlock and cheating on your wife to have said children. I don't care too much about the former (outside of wondering how guys like Shawn kemp and Travis Henry could have so many kids), but the latter indicates you are a scumbag imo.

I cheer for msu first and foremost. Then oregon (grad degree) and the Nationals (lived in dc 5 years and went to tons of games). I'm not a big NBA fan, closest team I somewhat follow is the Blazers, but to give you an idea of how much I care, I've watched about a half of a game total while they've been off to one of the best starts in the NBA. I watch a ton of NFL, but I'm not really a big fan of anyone. I have certain players I like individually, but really I just wanna see good football games.

I agree 100% on the egregiousness of those actions.

But you come off as extremely naive as to think those exact actions aren't rampant on every team at every level. I guess it's just convenient to choose this instance to make a stand for moral character since we're discussing a hall of famer that played for your team's rival...

[dawgs]

I agree 100% on the egregiousness of those actions.

But you come off as extremely naive as to think those exact actions aren't rampant on every team at every level. I guess it's just convenient to choose this instance to make a stand for moral character since we're discussing a hall of famer that played for your team's rival...

now you are beginning to understand the entire basis of talking shit. that said, when other prominent players get themselves in situations like this, it's news too. bryce harper got married recently. if he cheats on his wife and knocks up another woman, it'll be news too.

i do think chipper is a douche though. his whole self-appointed ambassador of the unwritten rules of baseball persona really rubbed me the wrong way. mccann does the same shit and annoys me the same way.

[shoeless joe]

now you are beginning to understand the entire basis of talking shit. that said, when other prominent players get themselves in situations like this, it's news too. bryce harper got married recently. if he cheats on his wife and knocks up another woman, it'll be news too.

i do think chipper is a douche though. his whole self-appointed ambassador of the unwritten rules of baseball persona really rubbed me the wrong way. mccann does the same shit and annoys me the same way.

Fair enough on your first point.

As for the second: the things you listed are the exact reasons why chipper and McCann are great team leaders. In baseball certain things are supposed to be done a certain way...it's called professionalism. And there is a key player for your Nats that goes about things with the same approach; nobody is more "mr. Unwritten rule" than Jason werth. Also, chippers best friend mans 1st base for your Holier than thou Nationals. I'm sure laroche phoned mrs. Jones and informed her of her husbands transgressions...based on his moral fiber 'n all.

[Dawg61]

Where did this thread go?

[Political Hack]

Where did this thread go?

hooters.

[TheRef]

hooters.

Shenanigans?

[War Machine Dawg]

Shenanigans?

Antics?

[TheRef]

Antics?

Hey Farva. What's that restaurant you really like with the signs all over the wall?

Shenanigans?

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17h0v0ixsdoo3jpg/original.jpg

[Dawg61]

Hey Farva. What's that restaurant you really like with the signs all over the wall?

Shenanigans?

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17h0v0ixsdoo3jpg/original.jpg

Thread has improved

[TheRef]

Thread has improved

http://i.imgur.com/1a5rd3y.png

[Dawg61]

http://i.imgur.com/1a5rd3y.png

Farva looks like the douchebag 1b for Ole Miss. Orvis

[TheRef]

Farva looks like the douchebag 1b for Ole Miss. Orvis

Confirmed: Sikes Orvis is Farva

http://bcdownload.gannett.edgesuite.net/jackson/41188240001/201403/465/41188240001_3378341659001_006-vs.jpg?pubId=41188240001
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130123005134/villains/images/7/78/Super_Troopers_1080p_www_yify_torrents_com_3_large .png

[Dawg61]

Confirmed: Sikes Orvis is Farva

http://bcdownload.gannett.edgesuite.net/jackson/41188240001/201403/465/41188240001_3378341659001_006-vs.jpg?pubId=41188240001
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130123005134/villains/images/7/78/Super_Troopers_1080p_www_yify_torrents_com_3_large .png

Hahaha holy shit that's funny

[Political Hack]

meow

[TheRef]

meow

Meow license and registration....