Rick Ray gets a 4-star commit tonight [Archive]

CadaverDawg

11-18-2014, 09:17 PM

lack of butts in the seat tells me different

That comes with winning. Our fans got used to winning, so to expect them to sit through the shit show the last few years is not really being realistic. I know it would help to have a packed house, but that isn't realistic until we put a better product on the court. I think the crowds will pick up this season if we play well in the Non Con. Mf or the first time since Ray started,we actually have a team that many feel can compete a little. That makes a difference. Why would I drive 2.5 hours on a Wednesday night to watch a sure beat down, and then have to drive home and go to work the next day?

This year will be different....next year could be even better. And if he keeps recruiting well, we could be back to sell outs by 2016-17

Percho

11-18-2014, 09:39 PM

what time is the bb game?

Jacksondevildog

11-18-2014, 09:41 PM

what time is the bb game?

Noon

Dawg61

11-19-2014, 12:52 AM

That comes with winning. Our fans got used to winning, so to expect them to sit through the shit show the last few years is not really being realistic. I know it would help to have a packed house, but that isn't realistic until we put a better product on the court. I think the crowds will pick up this season if we play well in the Non Con. Mf or the first time since Ray started,we actually have a team that many feel can compete a little. That makes a difference. Why would I drive 2.5 hours on a Wednesday night to watch a sure beat down, and then have to drive home and go to work the next day?

This year will be different....next year could be even better. And if he keeps recruiting well, we could be back to sell outs by 2016-17

This!!! Give us something to be excited about. Beat a good team. Start out 10-0. Do something!! Blow bullshit teams out by 50!! Valley was HORRENDOUS!! They didn't have a single player over 6'4 worth a shit. It was a layup drill for us. We should of defu@king destroyed them!! I'm not going to blow my wad over a 4* for next year. Wanna see excited? Wanna see a packed house again? SIGN MALIK NEWMAN!!

Barking 13

11-19-2014, 01:06 AM

Mullen got 6 years.. just sayin'

Dawg61

11-19-2014, 01:34 AM

Mullen got 6 years.. just sayin'

Mullen had us in a bowl game year 2 and he was 1st and goal on the 2 from beating LSU and having us in a bowl HIS FIRST SEASON!! Don't compare Ray to Mullen. Ever.

Barking 13

11-19-2014, 01:37 AM

Mullen had us in a bowl game year 2 and he was 1st and goal on the 2 from beating LSU and having us in a bowl HIS FIRST SEASON!! Don't compare Ray to Mullen. Ever.

easy bro... I forgot the *** lol

Dawg61

11-19-2014, 01:40 AM

easy bro... I forgot the *** lol

Haha my bad

engie

11-19-2014, 01:44 AM

This!!! Give us something to be excited about. Beat a good team. Start out 10-0. Do something!! Blow bullshit teams out by 50!! Valley was HORRENDOUS!! They didn't have a single player over 6'4 worth a shit. It was a layup drill for us. We should of defu@king destroyed them!! I'm not going to blow my wad over a 4* for next year. Wanna see excited? Wanna see a packed house again? SIGN MALIK NEWMAN!!

So you want us to do something you told us there was 100% NO WAY was going to happen. Blew up a dozen threads and basically destroyed the board about it to the extent that Newman couldn't even be discussed on any level whatsoever for a number of months. What gives?

Don't pull "show me something" now after you've been off the deep end about Ray basically since the inception of this board. That approach from Cadaver is fair because it's consistent with his long-term viewpoint, and while falling a bit on the pessimistic side, has never consistently been unreasonable. You owe the board an apology before you get to go "wait and see" or "show me something" after the destruction you've wrung toward people asking you to do that from the beginning. Quietly backtracking from the hard-line position you've taken about Ray both as a coach and recruiter that has played a huge role in making basketball an almost completely undiscussable topic on this board for 2 years now isn't going to work. Just own the fact that you just might have jumped the gun, and the rest of us will let it go.

Ray's last 2 commitments have been 4*s. The next 2 will most likely be another 4* and then we've got a great chance at a high 5*. And all of the guys seem to fit our system and personality as a team. Recruiting wheels are spinning up pretty well now. The path toward Ray having success here is looking more and more clear and more and more probable.

Dawg61

11-19-2014, 02:02 AM

So you want us to do something you told us there was 100% NO WAY was going to happen. Blew up a dozen threads and basically destroyed the board about it to the extent that Newman couldn't even be discussed on any level whatsoever for a number of months. What gives?

Don't pull "show me something" now after you've been off the deep end about Ray basically since the inception of this board. That approach from Cadaver is fair because it's consistent with his long-term viewpoint, and while falling a bit on the pessimistic side, has never consistently been unreasonable. You owe the board an apology before you get to go "wait and see" or "show me something" after the destruction you've wrung toward people asking you to do that from the beginning. Quietly backtracking from the hard-line position you've taken about Ray both as a coach and recruiter that has played a huge role in making basketball an almost completely undiscussable topic on this board for 2 years now isn't going to work. Just own the fact that you just might have jumped the gun, and the rest of us will let it go.

Ray's last 2 commitments have been 4*s. The next 2 will most likely be another 4* and then we've got a great chance at a high 5*. And all of the guys seem to fit our system and personality as a team. Recruiting wheels are spinning up pretty well now. The path toward Ray having success here is looking more and more clear and more and more probable.

Lay off the scotch bro. At no point in my previous post did I say we've turned a corner or am I backing off my stance on our basketball team. We are awful. We don't have a fu@king POINT GUARD OR ANYBODY THAT CAN MAKE 3's!!! We are a team full of 3's and 4's. That's going to be real ugly real quick. If you're putting your eggs of hope in Sword and Ready you're in for a nightmare wake up call coming in one month. We are a damn steaming pile of mess. We had 26 turnovers vs VALLEY!! Butler has 26 turnovers in 6 games. At least in year 1-2 we could lay blame on zero bench. Now we have to face terrible straight in the face. There's no getting by it this year. You'll see it soon. It's so obvious and yet you still can't see it. You really shouldn't post about basketball. You're highly intelligent in many other facets of life but watching a basketball team and being able to identify wether it's good basketball or bad is not one of them.

msstate7

11-19-2014, 07:38 AM

Lay off the scotch bro. At no point in my previous post did I say we've turned a corner or am I backing off my stance on our basketball team. We are awful. We don't have a fu@king POINT GUARD OR ANYBODY THAT CAN MAKE 3's!!! We are a team full of 3's and 4's. That's going to be real ugly real quick. If you're putting your eggs of hope in Sword and Ready you're in for a nightmare wake up call coming in one month. We are a damn steaming pile of mess. We had 26 turnovers vs VALLEY!! Butler has 26 turnovers in 6 games. At least in year 1-2 we could lay blame on zero bench. Now we have to face terrible straight in the face. There's no getting by it this year. You'll see it soon. It's so obvious and yet you still can't see it. You really shouldn't post about basketball. You're highly intelligent in many other facets of life but watching a basketball team and being able to identify wether it's good basketball or bad is not one of them.

I'm not justifying the TO's by no means, but didn't we only have 7 at halftime? We're also playing without 2 of our primary ball handlers. Oh and valley forced 19 turnovers against Indiana.

thf24

11-19-2014, 08:24 AM

I'm not going to blow my wad over a 4* for next year.

I find it hard to believe you aren't the least bit excited over a highly-rated 6'4" guard who can shoot, exactly the type of player you were lamenting our lack of yesterday.

I'm not justifying the TO's by no means, but didn't we only have 7 at halftime? We're also playing without 2 of our primary ball handlers. Oh and valley forced 19 turnovers against Indiana.

Agenda > Facts

Coach34

11-19-2014, 08:45 AM

They aren't going to be happy with Ray no matter what he does

Johnson85

11-19-2014, 08:54 AM

They aren't going to be happy with Ray no matter what he does

Never want to be the man after the man. You want to be the man after the man after the man. Don't follow SPurrier, follow Zook. Don't follow Meyer, follow Muschamp.

Not that Stansbury was a Saban (and not that Ray is a Miles), but look at how much discontent there has been with Miles at LSU. The only exception I can think of off hand is Crooms. He had tons of support from the beginning but just wasn't a head coach.

notsofarawaydawg

11-19-2014, 08:56 AM

thf24

11-19-2014, 08:58 AM

They aren't going to be happy with Ray no matter what he does

At this point, I think that some of them are so invested in the idea that Ray is a terrible coach, they're subconsciously incapable of acknowledging that they may have been wrong and things may be about to get a lot better. I know it's early and we haven't proven anything yet, but I don't see any other reason for the refusal to recognize things that are obviously vastly improved in these first two games, while fixating on situational flaws.

thedawg

11-19-2014, 09:02 AM

It sucks for Ray because there will be a vocal portion of our fanbase that will never ever support him no matter what... Even if we get Malik and make the tournament in his one year at the first sign of trouble they will be right back with "told you" "Ray got lucky because Malik Newman had so many ins with State and he rode his coatails he really cant coach" and on and on.. I hope Ray gets us to the final four and gives us the bird on the way to a big time big time job... it would serve some of you agenda having mfers right

Eric Nies Grind Time

11-19-2014, 09:25 AM

If we land Malik Newman people will be crazy to not travel to at least one game. I want to say he would be the biggest recruit we have ever landed in any sport. Chris Jones was #2 in the nation, but landing Malik is a bigger impact.

headcoach98

11-19-2014, 09:26 AM

I believe Ray's recruiting will resemble Mullen's, get 4 stars here and there/mix in a few 3 stars and adding depth to your team. I waiting to see us get some nice bigs to compliment our nice guards.

drunkernhelldawg

11-19-2014, 09:48 AM

I'd rather stick with Ray for at least three more seasons, counting this one. We ain't gonna magically do better just by switching coaches. We've got a long way to go. Let's work together to get there.

Coach34

11-19-2014, 10:05 AM

engie

11-19-2014, 10:13 AM

Never want to be the man after the man. You want to be the man after the man after the man. Don't follow SPurrier, follow Zook. Don't follow Meyer, follow Muschamp.

Not that Stansbury was a Saban (and not that Ray is a Miles), but look at how much discontent there has been with Miles at LSU. The only exception I can think of off hand is Crooms. He had tons of support from the beginning but just wasn't a head coach.

Stansbury is the guy that "followed the man". Not Ray.

Tbonewannabe

11-19-2014, 10:19 AM

engie

11-19-2014, 10:22 AM

Lay off the scotch bro.
No.

At no point in my previous post did I say we've turned a corner or am I backing off my stance on our basketball team.
Yes -- you did. You've backed way off on the "Malik Newman is 100% not coming to MSU and anyone discussing it is a basketball idiot!!1!1" approach. Quietly -- without ever admitting you were being a dumbass. I let that one slide -- I'm not letting you off easy on the Ray hatred you've spewed in the most ignorant and indignant manner possible.

We are awful.
So you keep telling us.

We don't have a fu@king POINT GUARD OR ANYBODY THAT CAN MAKE 3's!!!
You should tell that to the dude you wanted to cut at last year that is currently .556 from 3 @ 5-9. We've got 4 players on this team that can shoot 3s on a pretty high level.

We are a team full of 3's and 4's.
Sword isn't a 3 or 4.
Thomas isn't a 3 or 4.
Ready isn't a 3 or 4.
Dunlap isn't a 3 or 4.
etc...

That's going to be real ugly real quick.
righttttt

If you're putting your eggs of hope in Sword and Ready you're in for a nightmare wake up call coming in one month.
LOL

We are a damn steaming pile of mess. We had 26 turnovers vs VALLEY!! Butler has 26 turnovers in 6 games.
Don't let the 7 total in the first half fool you when we obviously took our foot off the gas and lost focus -- nor the part where we were without our two starting primary ball handlers.

At least in year 1-2 we could lay blame on zero bench. Now we have to face terrible straight in the face.
I haven't seen terrible this year and neither have you.

There's no getting by it this year. You'll see it soon. It's so obvious and yet you still can't see it.
It's exactly the opposite in reality. You are the one that's agenda-blinded.

You really shouldn't post about basketball. You're highly intelligent in many other facets of life but watching a basketball team and being able to identify wether it's good basketball or bad is not one of them.
Another hilarious hypocrisy coming from you. I've forgotten more about the game of basketball than you will every actually know. You've yet to bring a single basketball insight beyond the most elementary, church league level. If you are pretty confident in know" -- both of us live blog a game on here -- and let the site decides who knows the game better. You'll be shocked at the outcome.

17 or more wins -- you don't talk basketball anymore. 16 or fewer -- I don't. Deal? You seem pretty sure about what you are watching, so this should be a no-brainer right?

MadDawg

11-19-2014, 10:24 AM

Stansbury is the guy that "followed the man". Not Ray.

LMAO

engie

11-19-2014, 10:32 AM

LMAO
What did Stans actually accomplish that Williams didn't?

Intramural All-American

11-19-2014, 10:48 AM

What did Stans actually accomplish that Williams didn't?

He did win the SEC. You know I'm not the biggest Stansbury apologist, but he did have a good run, albeit without any real postseason success.

engie

11-19-2014, 11:00 AM

He did win the SEC. You know I'm not the biggest Stansbury apologist, but he did have a good run, albeit without any real postseason success.

So did Williams in 91...

My point was not to take a shot at Stans -- overall, he was slightly better than Williams, his highs just weren't as high and lows weren't as low until the very end. My point was to dispel this myth of it being impossible for multiple coaches in a row to have success at the same place...

For that matter, Cohen is also "the man following the man". As is Jimbo Fisher. This whole line of thought was created by athletics depts to justify hiring failures IMO...

MadDawg

11-19-2014, 11:13 AM

What did Stans actually accomplish that Williams didn't?

I have no desire to get into a pissing match about who was better between Williams and Stans. I just thought it funny to label Stans as the "tweener" of Willams and Ray.

Johnson85

11-19-2014, 11:13 AM

Stansbury is the guy that "followed the man". Not Ray.

That's a good point.

Maybe you never want to be the man after the man, unless the man something something boosters daughter something something else that shouldn't be repeated, in which case, it's ok to be the man after the man, but then you don't want to be the man after the man after the man but instead be the man after the man after the man after the man. I think that fixes it...

But now that I think about it, there were a lot of people pretty critical of Stans up to maybe the year before the road warriors year, so maybe Stans was a poor man's miles following a poor man's saban.

engie

11-19-2014, 11:24 AM

I have no desire to get into a pissing match about who was better between Williams and Stans. I just thought it funny to label Stans as the "tweener" of Willams and Ray.

Where was this "tweener" label you accuse me of? Or are you just seeing what you want to see again?

DudyDawg

11-19-2014, 11:37 AM

So I hear our basketball program got a 4 star player to committ. That's pretty good in any sport right?

msstate7

11-19-2014, 11:39 AM

So I hear our basketball program got a 4 star player to committ. That's pretty good in any sport right?

Doesn't matter if ray coaches him***

Dawg61

11-19-2014, 11:40 AM

Winning has nothing to do with the real reason you don't support Rick Ray.

wtf, enlighten me then Chief

Dawg61

11-19-2014, 11:51 AM

No.

Yes -- you did. You've backed way off on the "Malik Newman is 100% not coming to MSU and anyone discussing it is a basketball idiot!!1!1" approach. Quietly -- without ever admitting you were being a dumbass. I let that one slide -- I'm not letting you off easy on the Ray hatred you've spewed in the most ignorant and indignant manner possible.

So you keep telling us.

You should tell that to the dude you wanted to cut at last year that is currently .556 from 3 @ 5-9. We've got 4 players on this team that can shoot 3s on a pretty high level.

Sword isn't a 3 or 4.
Thomas isn't a 3 or 4.
Ready isn't a 3 or 4.
Dunlap isn't a 3 or 4.
etc...

righttttt

LOL

Don't let the 7 total in the first half fool you when we obviously took our foot off the gas and lost focus -- nor the part where we were without our two starting primary ball handlers.

I haven't seen terrible this year and neither have you.

It's exactly the opposite in reality. You are the one that's agenda-blinded.

Another hilarious hypocrisy coming from you. I've forgotten more about the game of basketball than you will every actually know. You've yet to bring a single basketball insight beyond the most elementary, church league level. If you are pretty confident in know" -- both of us live blog a game on here -- and let the site decides who knows the game better. You'll be shocked at the outcome.

17 or more wins -- you don't talk basketball anymore. 16 or fewer -- I don't. Deal? You seem pretty sure about what you are watching, so this should be a no-brainer right?

Engie I can't reply to this bubble quote garbage. You turn the reply with quote option into some massive jumbled mess with ten quotes in it. You do it all the time and nobody really reads it because it's too long. When conversing with someone it's best to keep your responses shorter. One paragraph or less with me. Want me to reply to you stop putting a fu@king novel of bubble quotes down.

I'm not partaking in some retarded bet where either way this board losses out on you and my's non-stop entertaining Rick Ray fight. Where's the fun in that? Plus you already made that bet with Preacher.

codeDawg

11-19-2014, 12:19 PM

Ray needs to get back in the middle of the pack in the SEC. WE ALL EXPECT THAT out of our program. He's had 2 time to cleanse and start building- it's time to be better.

We're 2-0 now and look improved. That should leave to some optimism. Get out there Saturday and give them some home crowd advantage. We need it

Ray just needs to recruit. College basketball is all about talent. You can have a developmental football team, but not basketball. Ray could be an awesome floor coach, but we won't get to see it until he puts some kids on the floor that can play.

His classes so far have been terrible, and that's on him. He might have been in a bad way with boosters or whatever, but it's his job to figure it out and get guys in.

This guy is a good start, but he needs to get it going in 2015. Land Newman and he's got something to work from. I like Ray. I'll support Ray, but he's got to make some big strides on recruiting or we need to go another direction. I don't really care what the circumstances are.

engie

11-19-2014, 12:23 PM

Engie I can't reply to this bubble quote garbage. You turn the reply with quote option into some massive jumbled mess with ten quotes in it. You do it all the time and nobody really reads it because it's too long. When conversing with someone it's best to keep your responses shorter. One paragraph or less with me. Want me to reply to you stop putting a fu@king novel of bubble quotes down.

I'm not partaking in some retarded bet where either way this board losses out on you and my's non-stop entertaining Rick Ray fight. Where's the fun in that? Plus you already made that bet with Preacher.

So you've got a short attention span -- are ignorant -- and don't actually believe your position then?

Seems like we're just further establishing what we already know.

engie

11-19-2014, 12:25 PM

Ray just needs to recruit. College basketball is all about talent. You can have a developmental football team, but not basketball.

Where does this consistent misconception come from? Half or more of the teams that go deep in March are developmental basketball programs.

Fact - the ENTIRE SEC recruits top 25 talent in basketball
Fact - the ENTIRE SEC outside of Kentucky and Florida sucks in basketball

How many times do we have to see the same model fail all around us before our fanbase is willing to actually try a different model?

Dawg61

11-19-2014, 12:40 PM

So you've got a short attention span -- are ignorant -- and don't actually believe your position then?

Seems like we're just further establishing what we already know.

Twenty wins dude. Stansbury won 21 games and then got fired. You don't get to lower the bar to ridiculously low standards just so Ray has a chance to meet them. You don't get to play the Ole Miss **** Stars game and get everyone focused on phantom possible star commits from Malik Newman and players that won't even see the Hump floor till 2016 to distract us from the mess we're trotting out right now in YEAR THREE. Year three the year of No Point Guard. Hey guys remember that year we tried to play without a point guard? Oh yea that's this year.

Dawg61

11-19-2014, 12:44 PM

Fact - the ENTIRE SEC recruits top 25 talent in basketball

Wut? How many ESPN top 100 basketball players have we signed in the last 5 years?

preachermatt83

11-19-2014, 01:01 PM

#crootinisallthatmatters*

preachermatt83

11-19-2014, 01:05 PM

Twenty wins dude. Stansbury won 21 games and then got fired. You don't get to lower the bar to ridiculously low standards just so Ray has a chance to meet them. You don't get to play the Ole Miss **** Stars game and get everyone focused on phantom possible star commits from Malik Newman and players that won't even see the Hump floor till 2016 to distract us from the mess we're trotting out right now in YEAR THREE. Year three the year of No Point Guard. Hey guys remember that year we tried to play without a point guard? Oh yea that's this year.

Dawg61 just nailed it!

http://media.giphy.com/media/d5KuLHHTSaRnG/giphy.gif

preachermatt83

11-19-2014, 01:07 PM

Engie I can't reply to this bubble quote garbage. You turn the reply with quote option into some massive jumbled mess with ten quotes in it. You do it all the time and nobody really reads it because it's too long. When conversing with someone it's best to keep your responses shorter. One paragraph or less with me. Want me to reply to you stop putting a fu@king novel of bubble quotes down.

I'm not partaking in some retarded bet where either way this board losses out on you and my's non-stop entertaining Rick Ray fight. Where's the fun in that? Plus you already made that bet with Preacher.

im taking one for the team.. Just imagine how awesome it would be to never have to listen to Engie spew off all this nonsense. No more basketball posts for engie ever. Wow. AWESOMENESS!

engie

11-19-2014, 01:24 PM

im taking one for the team.. Just imagine how awesome it would be to never have to listen to Engie spew off all this nonsense. No more basketball posts for engie ever. Wow. AWESOMENESS!

It's going to be glorious when you can't post here -- and it would be glorious for the same with Dawg61 if he actually believed the bullshit that comes out of his mouth...

engie

11-19-2014, 01:27 PM

Dawg61 just nailed it!

http://media.giphy.com/media/d5KuLHHTSaRnG/giphy.gif

It's cute how you all come running to each other's back everytime someone posterizes your ridiculousness. Group think mentality and need for affirmation -- a prevailing characteristic of the weak.

Dawg61

11-19-2014, 01:37 PM

It's going to be glorious when you can't post here -- and it would be glorious for the same with Dawg61 if he actually believed the bullshit that comes out of his mouth...

Twenty wins Engie. That's one less than the 21 Stansbury got when he got fired. Ray has an easier OOC schedule too. It's year three. You don't think he can win twenty games? That won't even get us in the tourney. 20 wins puts us in the NIT. Maybe. You don't think we can do that? Why not? It's year three.

engie

11-19-2014, 01:38 PM

Twenty wins dude. Stansbury won 21 games and then got fired.
With Elite 8 talent. You contest that Cohen should have been fired in year 3 for not being at our ceiling as a program, correct?

You don't get to lower the bar to ridiculously low standards just so Ray has a chance to meet them.
No one is lowering any standards. People have a reasonable ramp up for expectations from a total shitshow. Well, people with a shred of common sense do.

You don't get to play the Ole Miss **** Stars game and get everyone focused on phantom possible star commits from Malik Newman and players that won't even see the Hump floor till 2016 to distract us from the mess we're trotting out right now in YEAR THREE.
What mess is that again?

Year three the year of No Point Guard.
I count 2.5 point guards.

Hey guys remember that year we tried to play without a point guard? Oh yea that's this year.
This is why you are basketball ignorant. Not only basketball ignorant -- but ignorant of that fact.

thf24

11-19-2014, 01:43 PM

im taking one for the team.. Just imagine how awesome it would be to never have to listen to Engie spew off all this nonsense. No more basketball posts for engie ever. Wow. AWESOMENESS!

No offense preacher because you're usually a pretty good poster, but judging by the fact that you were leading the charge to have Mullen replaced last year, I wouldn't be real confident in your own ability to judge a coach and his potential for future success if I were you.

codeDawg

11-19-2014, 01:49 PM

Where does this consistent misconception come from? Half or more of the teams that go deep in March are developmental basketball programs.

Fact - the ENTIRE SEC recruits top 25 talent in basketball
Fact - the ENTIRE SEC outside of Kentucky and Florida sucks in basketball

How many times do we have to see the same model fail all around us before our fanbase is willing to actually try a different model?

I don't think they are mutually exclusive. How about we get a guy that recruits pretty well and coaches pretty well too. We might be pretty good. Stans couldn't coach, Ray isn't recruiting well so far. You have to have players and put them in position to make plays.

Basketball isn't like football. The kids that can play are mostly on AAU teams and they play a lot. If you are worth a damn, you are going to get exposure. There are far fewer "diamonds" in the rough, even in MS. Yes, we can get some role players, buy you have to have a star to really make waves.

And according to 247, the SEC schools in the top 25:
2014: UK(2), Florida(9), Bama(24)
2013: UK(1), Florida (16), Arkansas (22), South Carolina (25)
2012: UK(2)
2011: UK(1), Arkansas (7), Alabama (9), Florida(14), State (15), Vandy (22)
2010: UK(1), Tennessee (6), Florida (7), Alabama(19), South Carolina (23)

The SEC does not consistently recruit in the top 25, and that's why the SEC sucks. UK and Florida are consistently on the top of that list and consistently win. Talent makes a big difference. I'm not saying that we can go get Cal or Billy Donavan, but so far Rick Ray has sucked at half of his job, so we don't really get to see if he is any good at the other half.

engie

11-19-2014, 01:55 PM

Twenty wins Engie. That's one less than the 21 Stansbury got when he got fired. Ray has an easier OOC schedule too. It's year three. You don't think he can win twenty games? That won't even get us in the tourney. 20 wins puts us in the NIT. Maybe. You don't think we can do that? Why not? It's year three.

Precisely because it's year 3 of a total rebuild is why it's an unreasonable expectation for him to match what our "best ever coach" was able to do in year 14 with FOUR starters projected at one time or another as NBA lottery picks, who was talked about all over the web as having an "elite 8 talent" team -- before crumbling down the stretch and going first out in the SEC and NIT tourneys...

No one is saying they will be "happy" longterm with the 18-20ish wins we're probably going to get this year. We are acknowledging that it's significant movement in the right direction, with brighter days on the horizon with THIS regime, who is now playing you for a "RAY CAN'T CROOT!!!1!1" fool.

It's funny how you bring up the "easier OOC" schedule -- while ignoring the previous SEC schedule being much easier under Stans when we still had divisions and got all of the west teams twice, while only playing the(far superior) east teams once.

Dawg61

11-19-2014, 01:58 PM

With Elite 8 talent. You contest that Cohen should have been fired in year 3 for not being at our ceiling as a program, correct?

No one is lowering any standards. People have a reasonable ramp up for expectations from a total shitshow. Well, people with a shred of common sense do.

What mess is that again?

I count 2.5 point guards.

This is why you are basketball ignorant. Not only basketball ignorant -- but ignorant of that fact.

And you continue to be an asshat and puke all over the page with bubble quotes. Want a reply? One paragraph or less. One quote. This board will be so much better when you start posting like everyone else.

codeDawg

11-19-2014, 02:04 PM

Precisely because it's year 3 of a total rebuild is why it's an unreasonable expectation for him to match what our "best ever coach" was able to do in year 14 with FOUR starters projected at one time or another as NBA lottery picks, who was talked about all over the web as having an "elite 8 talent" team -- before crumbling down the stretch and going first out in the SEC and NIT tourneys...

No one is saying they will be "happy" longterm with the 18-20ish wins we're probably going to get this year. We are acknowledging that it's significant movement in the right direction, with brighter days on the horizon with THIS regime, who is now playing you for a "RAY CAN'T CROOT!!!1!1" fool.

It's funny how you bring up the "easier OOC" schedule -- while ignoring the previous SEC schedule being much easier under Stans when we still had divisions and got all of the west teams twice, while only playing the(far superior) east teams once.

I think everybody knows what we're in for this year, and we all know it isn't because Ray isn't coaching well, it's because we don't have the players. That's his fault no matter what the circumstances are. If he will go get the players, we will win more games and everyone will be happy. If he doesn't, we won't, and it's time to move on.

Dawg61

11-19-2014, 02:08 PM

it's because we don't have the players. That's his fault no matter what the circumstances are. If he will go get the players, we will win more games and everyone will be happy. If he doesn't, we won't, and it's time to move on.

Well said

engie

11-19-2014, 02:24 PM

I don't think they are mutually exclusive. How about we get a guy that recruits pretty well and coaches pretty well too. We might be pretty good.
How do we know that isn't what we've got now? Too early to know for sure.

Stans couldn't coach, Ray isn't recruiting well so far. You have to have players and put them in position to make plays.
I don't understand the problem with his recruiting right now? It's an antiquated viewpoint. He's about to grab 4 or 5 very good, if not elite talents back to back. For all intents and purposes, he's already got 3 of them.

Basketball isn't like football. The kids that can play are mostly on AAU teams and they play a lot. If you are worth a damn, you are going to get exposure. There are far fewer "diamonds" in the rough, even in MS.
I disagree. There are a ton of "diamonds in the rough" in basketball. A widespread failure of college player development is what you are actually seeing. Not "all fully developed" players. The only players that actually get "exposure" in terms of rankings are the top 100 players. Beyond that, it's a total shitshoot. I don't need rankings to tell me that Tookie, Weatherspoon, and Strugg are good. I can see that on film. Just like I could see it with Daniels and Houston.

Basketball is, by far, the major college sport with the most parity. If it was so clearcut who and what was elite and made elite teams -- it should be dominated by the same couple of teams every single year. Yet, half the teams we see go deep every march are relative nobodies that have developed their talent into a mature roster and took out the starz when the marbles were on the line...

Yes, we can get some role players, buy you have to have a star to really make waves.
What stars do Wisconsin have that were recruited? One local 5* on roster and on other 4*s or something like that? What "law" is out there preventing us from being similar?

And according to 247, the SEC schools in the top 25:
2014: UK(2), Florida(9), Bama(24)
2013: UK(1), Florida (16), Arkansas (22), South Carolina (25)
2012: UK(2)
2011: UK(1), Arkansas (7), Alabama (9), Florida(14), State (15), Vandy (22)
2010: UK(1), Tennessee (6), Florida (7), Alabama(19), South Carolina (23)
24/7 is crap for basketball recruiting. They simply use the football formula -- which doesn't work when the class size gets alot smaller.

The SEC does not consistently recruit in the top 25
Yes it does. The entire SEC recruits in the top 50 in basketball -- which should, in theory, get them into the tournament practically every single year.

UK and Florida are consistently on the top of that list and consistently win.
There is a tail wagging the dog thing with recruiting rankings that is hard to prove one way or another. By those rankings, we should be crap in football right now -- I know that much.

Talent makes a big difference.
No one is saying it doesn't.

I'm not saying that we can go get Cal or Billy Donavan, but so far Rick Ray has sucked at half of his job, so we don't really get to see if he is any good at the other half.
Ray struggled out of the gate with recruiting for a laundry list of reasons -- but he's rolling just fine now. When Newman signs with us, our 2015 class jumps comfortably into the lauded 24/7 top 25 you were just discussing. When Hicks jumps in the boat, that will put the 2016 class in the top 5 -- and with just 2 players(which we'll assuredly add more), would have been good enough for 33rd nationally in the now signed class of 2015...

engie

11-19-2014, 02:25 PM

And you continue to be an asshat and puke all over the page with bubble quotes. Want a reply? One paragraph or less. One quote. This board will be so much better when you start posting like everyone else.

The board would be better if you stopped posting altogether. But we've already established today that you are just trolling without believing your actual position. Hence why you don't actually try to refute things that I rip to shreds on a point-by-point basis, which require individualized quotes to dispel each ignorant thought individually.

Maybe one day -- when you grow up and learn how to use the internet -- you'll be able to do the same thing.

NewTweederEndzoneDance

11-19-2014, 02:38 PM

Twenty wins dude. Stansbury won 21 games and then got fired. You don't get to lower the bar to ridiculously low standards just so Ray has a chance to meet them. You don't get to play the Ole Miss **** Stars game and get everyone focused on phantom possible star commits from Malik Newman and players that won't even see the Hump floor till 2016 to distract us from the mess we're trotting out right now in YEAR THREE. Year three the year of No Point Guard. Hey guys remember that year we tried to play without a point guard? Oh yea that's this year.

So year 3 of a rebuild MUST equal or exceed year 15 (or whatever it was) of the Stansbury era? By that logic we will likely hire and fire a coach every three years for eternity. That sounds lovely. You could at least make an attempt at being reasonable in your criticisms instead of blatantly overreaching with every post.

codeDawg

11-19-2014, 02:45 PM

How do we know that isn't what we've got now? Too early to know for sure.

I don't understand the problem with his recruiting right now? It's an antiquated viewpoint. He's about to grab 4 or 5 very good, if not elite talents back to back. For all intents and purposes, he's already got 3 of them.

I disagree. There are a ton of "diamonds in the rough" in basketball. A widespread failure of college player development is what you are actually seeing. Not "all fully developed" players. The only players that actually get "exposure" in terms of rankings are the top 100 players. Beyond that, it's a total shitshoot. I don't need rankings to tell me that Tookie, Weatherspoon, and Strugg are good. I can see that on film. Just like I could see it with Daniels and Houston.

Basketball is, by far, the major college sport with the most parity. If it was so clearcut who and what was elite and made elite teams -- it should be dominated by the same couple of teams every single year. Yet, half the teams we see go deep every march are relative nobodies that have developed their talent into a mature roster and took out the starz when the marbles were on the line...

What stars do Wisconsin have that were recruited? One local 5* on roster and on other 4*s or something like that? What "law" is out there preventing us from being similar?

24/7 is crap for basketball recruiting. They simply use the football formula -- which doesn't work when the class size gets alot smaller.

Yes it does. The entire SEC recruits in the top 50 in basketball -- which should, in theory, get them into the tournament practically every single year.

There is a tail wagging the dog thing with recruiting rankings that is hard to prove one way or another. By those rankings, we should be crap in football right now -- I know that much.

No one is saying it doesn't.

Ray struggled out of the gate with recruiting for a laundry list of reasons -- but he's rolling just fine now. When Newman signs with us, our 2015 class jumps comfortably into the lauded 24/7 top 25 you were just discussing. When Hicks jumps in the boat, that will put the 2016 class in the top 5 -- and with just 2 players(which we'll assuredly add more), would have been good enough for 33rd nationally in the now signed class of 2015...

It's really simple. We need better players than we have. You're saying the same thing. If we get Newman, we are instantly light years better. If 2016 works out that way, we're a whole lot better. THAT is exactly what I'm asking for. I am in no way saying "fire Rick Ray today". I'm saying that the guys we have now and that are committed in 2015 aren't going to get it done no matter how hard they play. Let's get Newman and put together a good class in 2016, or let's go another direction.

MadDawg

11-19-2014, 02:49 PM

No offense preacher because you're usually a pretty good poster, but judging by the fact that you were leading the charge to have Mullen replaced last year, I wouldn't be real confident in your own ability to judge a coach and his potential for future success if I were you.

Uh, engie was also leading the charge to fire Mullen and hire Hud. Are you calling him out too?

Dawg61

11-19-2014, 02:49 PM

So year 3 of a rebuild MUST equal or exceed year 15 (or whatever it was) of the Stansbury era? By that logic we will likely hire and fire a coach every three years for eternity. That sounds lovely. You could at least make an attempt at being reasonable in your criticisms instead of blatantly overreaching with every post.

20 is less than 21 and 21 got him fired. Twenty wins is fair. 21 was a disaster that meant firing. Again twenty is fair. 17 wins is a fu@king joke. Will James could coach us to 17 wins in basketball.

engie

11-19-2014, 02:51 PM

Rivals:

2015
#2 Kentucky
#3 aTm
#11 Auburn
#13 Florida
#24 LSU
#30 South Carolina
6 Pac12
6 ACC
3 Big East
4 B1G
2 American
1 Big12
1 Mountain West
1 a10

2014
#2 Kentucky
#10 Florida
#21 Mizzou
#25 Vandy
#28 Bama
7 ACC
3 Big12
5 Pac12
2 Mountain West
4 Big East
4 B1G

So, in the past 2 classes per Rivals:
13 ACC
11 PAC12
11 SEC
8 B1G
7 Big East
4 Big12
3 Mountain West
2 American
1 A10

There is no excuse for the middle of the pack in the SEC to be as bad as it's been in basketball recently

MadDawg

11-19-2014, 02:55 PM

So year 3 of a rebuild MUST equal or exceed year 15 (or whatever it was) of the Stansbury era? By that logic we will likely hire and fire a coach every three years for eternity. That sounds lovely. You could at least make an attempt at being reasonable in your criticisms instead of blatantly overreaching with every post.

What agenda must you have to keep misstating this?

"So year 3 of a rebuild MUST equal or exceed the season that got Stansbury fired?

There, fixed it for you.

engie

11-19-2014, 02:56 PM

Uh, engie was also leading the charge to fire Mullen and hire Hud. Are you calling him out too?

You are pretty careless about forgetting how I hedged that aren't you...

Dawg61

11-19-2014, 02:59 PM

What agenda must you have to keep misstating this?

"So year 3 of a rebuild MUST equal or exceed the season that got Stansbury fired?

There, fixed it for you.

Exactly

thf24

11-19-2014, 03:00 PM

Uh, engie was also leading the charge to fire Mullen and hire Hud. Are you calling him out too?

engie has extensive numbers and information to back up his arguments on this subject. I've never seen preacher back up his opinion with anything other than agreement with others, so I'm not going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

20 is less than 21 and 21 got him fired. Twenty wins is fair. 21 was a disaster that meant firing. Again twenty is fair. 17 wins is a fu@king joke. Will James could coach us to 17 wins in basketball.

Do you seriously believe the number of regular season wins Stansbury's final year had jack shit to do with his stepping down/firing?

engie

11-19-2014, 03:03 PM

20 is less than 21 and 21 got him fired. Twenty wins is fair. 21 was a disaster that meant firing. Again twenty is fair. 17 wins is a fu@king joke. Will James could coach us to 17 wins in basketball.

Conveniently moving the goalposts you previously had set for Ray. Which is all you've done in regards to him since the beginning...

In other words -- you are admitting that you expect us to show improvement and win 17+ this year -- and are hedging your bets on the improvement being sub 20 so that so you can keep going down this ridiculous path for an extra year instead of admitting things are going in the right direction and everything you've said about Ray has been premature and unfounded.

MadDawg

11-19-2014, 03:05 PM

Where was this "tweener" label you accuse me of? Or are you just seeing what you want to see again?

Holy shit you are one sensitive dude.

We were discussing three people - the man, the man after the man, and the man after the man after the man. Johnson85 implied Stans was the first man, Ray was the 2nd man and the third man would be the coach you really want to be. You disagreed (imagine that) and said actually Williams was the man, Stans was the man after the man, and Ray was the man after the man after the man. See that puts Stans in the middle according to you. Or the "tweener". And that got your panties in a wad.

Goat from MSU

11-19-2014, 03:07 PM

20 wins is within reach this year.Engie and Coach knows I did not like this hire but Ray needs this and next season he got better players coming in, Ray has 5 players with 800 or more mins. playing time in the SEC that will count for something. We are only 2 games in the season .I hate to think what this board will be like if he loses a game .

MadDawg

11-19-2014, 03:09 PM

engie has extensive numbers and information to back up his arguments on this subject. I've never seen preacher back up his opinion with anything other than agreement with others, so I'm not going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

You could have just said "No, I agree with engie so I will not call him out for wanting to fire Mullen last year. His perceived ability to judge coaches should not be impacted by wanting to fire the most successful coach in MSU football history less than 1 year before he had us ranked #1 for a month."

engie

11-19-2014, 03:12 PM

engie has extensive numbers and information to back up his arguments on this subject. I've never seen preacher back up his opinion with anything other than agreement with others, so I'm not going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Do you seriously believe the number of regular season wins Stansbury's final year had jack shit to do with his stepping down/firing?

The other big difference is that I admitted when I had jumped the gun about Mullen at the FIRST POSSIBLE juncture to admit such(when he miraculously pulled off the Egg Bowl -- at the time his best win and first win as an underdog in 45 games). I owned it THAT NIGHT. I have never given Mullen grief for one second after that Egg Bowl victory. Although it took me until the win in Baton Rouge to be firmly back in his corner. My viewpoint on Mullen was consistent and well-spelled-out multiple times -- with a consistent set of circumstances he had to meet to get me back in his corner. #1 become bowl eligible to get me off his back -- he did. #2 recruit better -- has has. #3 beat someone good -- he has. He's given us more this year than any reasonable person could have expected. This "Fire Mullen" bullshit you keep trying to run is hilarious -- when it was CLEARLY spelled out by me over a dozen times that you've seen that I was ONLY IN FAVOR OF FIRING MULLEN IF AND WHEN HE LOST THE EGG BOWL. Literally -- a dozen times -- that you've seen. And you are still stuck on it. What is even funnier is the guy that's stuck on that WANTED TO FIRE COHEN....

The PROBLEM with the Dawg61 grouping of the anti-Ray bias is the fact that their goalposts are constantly moving in order to keep bitching. It makes their positions unreliable -- calls actual motive to question -- and basically reduces them to an actual joke. If they could spell out a reasonable position -- even if negative -- with a reasonable approach -- no one would be calling them to task constantly. Instead, it's constantly evolving in order to bitch and fubar every single basketball thread that happens here.

engie

11-19-2014, 03:13 PM

Holy shit you are one sensitive dude.

We were discussing three people - the man, the man after the man, and the man after the man after the man. Johnson85 implied Stans was the first man, Ray was the 2nd man and the third man would be the coach you really want to be. You disagreed (imagine that) and said actually Williams was the man, Stans was the man after the man, and Ray was the man after the man after the man. See that puts Stans in the middle according to you. Or the "tweener". And that got your panties in a wad.

Holy shit -- you still don't get what I was actually saying after it's been spelled out 3 times in this very thread. I wish I was surprised.

engie

11-19-2014, 03:16 PM

You could have just said "No, I agree with engie so I will not call him out for wanting to fire Mullen last year. His perceived ability to judge coaches should not be impacted by wanting to fire the most successful coach in MSU football history less than 1 year before he had us ranked #1 for a month."

Where did I "want to fire Mullen last year"? Once again -- you are skewing my position by leaving out the bullet points on my Mullen position.

You see only through your own little prism, which isn't even close to the reality of a position that I spelled out, in detail, over a dozen times on every MSU site. But then again -- you can't even comprehend the shit that I spelled out for you MULTIPLE times in this very thread -- so asking you to comprehend something old is certainly asking alot.

codeDawg

11-19-2014, 03:27 PM

There is no excuse for the middle of the pack in the SEC to be as bad as it's been in basketball recently

To compare how good the SEC has been, you need to compare the seasons these classes have been able to contribute in, but this really isn't the point. I don't disagree with you that the SEC should be better, but you know what, it's full of shitty coaches. You have to do both. You have to get talent, and get talent to perform.

Ray has been terrible on the first one so far. Maybe he's about to turn the corner, but he's he needs to do it quickly or we need to move on. We're not going to hang participation banners in the Hump.

MadDawg

11-19-2014, 03:29 PM

Where did I "want to fire Mullen last year"? Once again -- you are skewing my position by leaving out the bullet points on my Mullen position.

We're last in the SEC in recruiting. And we're damn near full. We're on probation. The 2 teams we've consistently beaten(OM and Kentucky) are mopping the floor with us in recruiting. Coaching sucks. Not only does it suck -- but it's become laxidasical. We're making the same mistakes in year 5 that were made in year 1. And the best part of our team(punting) just got totally mind17ed last night.

When it is "time", it's time. There has been consistently clear regression since 2010 that is only hidden by the joke of a schedule we had last year. And not having it totally bottomed out YET doesn't mean it's not time to make a change. - engie 10/25/13

MadDawg

11-19-2014, 03:34 PM

Holy shit -- you still don't get what I was actually saying after it's been spelled out 3 times in this very thread. I wish I was surprised.

My God you are one stupid SOB. You got your panties in a wad because I paraphrased something you said. I didn't change what you said or even take exception to it. And your girlish sensitivities took over and you went off. You are by far the worst poster on this or any board.

Dawg61

11-19-2014, 03:37 PM

Conveniently moving the goalposts you previously had set for Ray. Which is all you've done in regards to him since the beginning...

In other words -- you are admitting that you expect us to show improvement and win 17+ this year -- and are hedging your bets on the improvement being sub 20 so that so you can keep going down this ridiculous path for an extra year instead of admitting things are going in the right direction and everything you've said about Ray has been premature and unfounded.

Find a quote of mine saying 17 wins was good this year? I've always said twenty. Ray already failed my one requirement though.

MadDawg

11-19-2014, 03:39 PM

Find a quote of mine saying 17 wins was good this year? I've always said twenty. Ray already failed my one requirement though.

The only person moving the goalposts is engie. Remember when "challenging for an NIT" was the goal for year 2? And making the NIT was the goal for year 3? Yeah I remember than too.

MadDawg

11-19-2014, 03:41 PM

another gem from engie in the same thread:

I changed my mind on Mullen in weeks 1 and 3 this year -- and took another month to be 100% sure I wasn't being an overly emotional roller coaster fan before taking a stance.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt through the collapse last year -- and the lack of OL holding us back in 2011. When nothing had been fixed this year -- after the problems couldn't have possibly been made any more obvious to us at the end of last year -- I finally lost faith. There is simply NO ONE worse at the end of games than he is. And we will never beat a team with superior talent under him again -- without them just giving us the game.

I think what I was holding onto more than Mullen -- was the momentum we'd built as a team, program, and fanbase. I LOVED the new "air" in Davis Wade in 2009, 2010, 2011. I felt it leaving last year -- and was fighting to keep it alive -- while our coach has fought to kill it. Now, I've come to terms with the fact that it's gone and there is no logical way we ever recapture it under this regime.

But with a HC change -- especially with Hud and a likely immediate boost in recruiting -- we recapture "it" before the spring game. - engie 10/25/13

engie

11-19-2014, 03:42 PM

To compare how good the SEC has been, you need to compare the seasons these classes have been able to contribute in, but this really isn't the point. I don't disagree with you that the SEC should be better, but you know what, it's full of shitty coaches. You have to do both. You have to get talent, and get talent to perform.

The problem is coaching in your opinion? How did Frank Martin, Cuonzo Martin, Anthony Grant, Mike Anderson, Billy Kennedy, etc all manage to be so successful prior to coming to the SEC before mostly falling on their faces once here? Do they forget how to coach when they get down here? Or do they get AAU starstruck or buy into recruiting/booster philosophies at these "big time" basketball programs that they aren't comfortable with, getting "elite" players that don't play to their strengths or fit their systems and their methods for previous success?

Alot of damn fine coaches have done a lot of losing in the SEC and there's more to the story than them losing their minds and forgetting how to coach basketball. I'm not saying the hypothesis I gave above is the whole problem -- but it's part of it. Which is why I appreciate us trying to take a different approach with the players we go after. You can literally see the similarity in personality traits in the guys we are going after in their highlight videos now. I appreciate that. Like-mindedness builds chemistry that is of high value longterm. I can go through every team in the conference and list the "elite" recruits they have on roster -- and it would be mind blowing how these teams can be that bad. There's obviously something else happening here.

engie

11-19-2014, 03:45 PM

We're last in the SEC in recruiting. And we're damn near full. We're on probation. The 2 teams we've consistently beaten(OM and Kentucky) are mopping the floor with us in recruiting. Coaching sucks. Not only does it suck -- but it's become laxidasical. We're making the same mistakes in year 5 that were made in year 1. And the best part of our team(punting) just got totally mind17ed last night.

When it is "time", it's time. There has been consistently clear regression since 2010 that is only hidden by the joke of a schedule we had last year. And not having it totally bottomed out YET doesn't mean it's not time to make a change. - engie 10/25/13

What part of that was I incorrect on?

Go ahead and post unlinked partial quotes to my position all you want -- I can literally show a dozen situations where I spelled out in detail that I was only in support of going another direction if we lost the Egg Bowl. That's where the bet was hedged and you are conveniently overlooking to push an old agenda.

And you are a ****ing hypocrite for being the one to try and do it after the shit you pulled about Cohen.

MadDawg

11-19-2014, 03:50 PM

What part of that was I incorrect on?

Go ahead and post unlinked partial quotes to my position all you want -- I can literally show a dozen situations where I spelled out in detail that I was only in support of going another direction if we lost the Egg Bowl. That's where the bet was hedged and you are conveniently overlooking to push an old agenda.

And you are a ****ing hypocrite for being the one to try and do it after the shit you pulled about Cohen.

I'm posting your full posts, idiot. Nowhere in these posts do you mention "if we lost eh egg bowl". Liar. Idiot.

And I've never tried to backtrack from anything I said about Cohen. But the most your "investigations" could ever find on me was a quote where I said the if not for what Cohen had done at Kentucky, you'd have to wonder if he even knew what he was doing. Sure, it was stupid. I own it. But I wasn't the only one bitching at the time.

engie

11-19-2014, 03:52 PM

My God you are one stupid SOB.
The guy who can't read calling the other guy stupid. That's funny.

You got your panties in a wad because I paraphrased something you said.
No -- you got your panties in a wad because you saw something I said that had alot of merit as a "shot" at Stansbury that actually wasn't a shot at Stansbury at all -- and you would have seen that ****ing clearly had you bothered reading for 15 seconds and/or the next 2 posts instead of making up your mind and STILL continuing to roll with the bullshit you made up in your head. You are literally arguing against a viewpoint that exists only in your tiny mind.

I didn't change what you said or even take exception to it.
Really? Well why are you still whining like a girl? Why are you bringing up, at length, something totally unrelated to this thread from over a year ago? Something that has been talked about ad nauseam.

Basically because you're a little bitch that can't argue based on the merits of the argument at hand -- while also being the hypocrite that wanted Cohen fired. So -- you are just a pot calling a kettle right now.

And your girlish sensitivities took over and you went off.
I'm the one that is scouring the archives for all of the times you've been wrong? Whose "girlish sensitivities" are we talking about here?

You are by far the worst poster on this or any board.
Thanks. Wish I could say the same about you -- but the fact is you are just another forgettable dumb ass.

MadDawg

11-19-2014, 03:52 PM

Here's what a poster on 6-pack had to say about engie:

"It's funny how quickly you've flipped on Mullen, but what's funnier is that now that you've "seen the light," you act like anyone who disagrees with you (i.e. anyone who still agrees with your prior opinion of Mullen, but not your current one) IS an OBVIOUS idiot who has DISREGARDED all the incontrovertible STATISTICS showing that HUD is the ONLY logical choice for head coach and he MUST be HIRED right NOW and ANYONE who can't SEE that is part of the PROBLEM. Do you ever tire of acting like whatever opinion you happen to hold today is the only one that could possibly be right and any other opinion is ludicrous? " - Arloguthrie 10/25/13

And you haven't changed at all. Worst poster on this or any board.

engie

11-19-2014, 03:53 PM

Find a quote of mine saying 17 wins was good this year? I've always said twenty. Ray already failed my one requirement though.

Your "one" requirement? You've had so many different requirements that we can't keep up with them all.

codeDawg

11-19-2014, 03:57 PM

The problem is coaching in your opinion? How did Frank Martin, Cuonzo Martin, Anthony Grant, Mike Anderson, Billy Kennedy, etc all manage to be so successful prior to coming to the SEC before mostly falling on their faces once here? Do they forget how to coach when they get down here? Or do they get AAU starstruck or buy into recruiting/booster philosophies at these "big time" basketball programs that they aren't comfortable with, getting "elite" players that don't play to their strengths or fit their systems and their methods for previous success?

Alot of damn fine coaches have done a lot of losing in the SEC and there's more to the story than them losing their minds and forgetting how to coach basketball. I'm not saying the hypothesis I gave above is the whole problem -- but it's part of it. Which is why I appreciate us trying to take a different approach with the players we go after. You can literally see the similarity in personality traits in the guys we are going after in their highlight videos now. I appreciate that. Like-mindedness builds chemistry that is of high value longterm. I can go through every team in the conference and list the "elite" recruits they have on roster -- and it would be mind blowing how these teams can be that bad. There's obviously something else happening here.

I think they got better talent, recruiting rankings or not, before they got into the SEC. The guys we have on the roster right now, recruiting rankings aside, are not great basketball players. They are role players that can do a little of this or some of that.

You're just arguing to argue at this point. I think we all know we need to get a couple of high-level players on the team or we aren't going to do much but argue on message boards about when we should fire Ray.

MadDawg

11-19-2014, 04:03 PM

What part of that was I incorrect on?

Uh, the part where you said it's time to make a change maybe? Are you really too dense to see that?

engie

11-19-2014, 04:04 PM

I'm posting your full posts, idiot. Nowhere in these posts do you mention "if we lost eh egg bowl". Liar. Idiot.
Namecalling? Who is the whiny little bitch again?
It's literally spelled out my Mullen position a dozen times that you've seen between here and SPS. Everything I posted was based on that position. And I CONSTANTLY hedged it as such. I didn't realize I had to explicitly state it in multiple paragraph detail in EVERY SINGLE POST I made -- for that to be my well-known, well-versed position. Literally everyone here that isn't pushing your crybaby agenda knows EXACTLY what my position was and is -- because they've seen it all a dozen times. I figured a dozen such posts in probably 100 I had bitching about Mullen would be enough -- but obviously not for the reading-ignorant agenda-driven ****tards.

And I've never tried to backtrack from anything I said about Cohen. But the most your "investigations" could ever find on me was a quote where I said the if not for what Cohen had done at Kentucky, you'd have to wonder if he even knew what he was doing. Sure, it was stupid. I own it. But I wasn't the only one bitching at the time.
Thanks for this -- it spells out in elaborate detail the extent to which you are being a hypocrite. Ah -- so it's cool for you to bitch about Cohen and want him gone --- but it's somehow different about Mullen in year 5? Was "engiNe the only one bitching at the time" -- or was it half our damn fanbase pissed off at that time? Football -- much moreso than baseball or basketball -- is a game of inches. I had over 3 years of data on my side at the time of my argument. We lose that Egg Bowl -- where are we at right now? Does anyone show up for the USM game? Does Dak have a damn bit of hype without the ending of that game and bowl game? No. We would have been expected bottom-dwellers in the west right beside if not below Arkansas. Luckily, things went differently -- but let's not pretend that we didn't stand on disaster's doorstep last year in football and manage to fight back from the ledge.

You've gone full ****tard on a baseball and now a basketball coach with less than 2/3 of the total data(with both of those being total rebuilds -- while Mullen's team was already totally built) that I was basing my opinion on Mullen on. I don't know why I bother engaging you beyond that point -- because that's all I need to confirm that you are an idiot.

engie

11-19-2014, 04:07 PM

engie

11-19-2014, 04:20 PM

I think they got better talent, recruiting rankings or not, before they got into the SEC. The guys we have on the roster right now, recruiting rankings aside, are not great basketball players. They are role players that can do a little of this or some of that.

You're just arguing to argue at this point. I think we all know we need to get a couple of high-level players on the team or we aren't going to do much but argue on message boards about when we should fire Ray.

But you just said that recruiting rankings get it right in basketball didn't you? That there was basically no such thing as diamonds? Obviously there was -- if these guys were having success with these underrated/unranked guys before who "were better basketball players"...

The disconnect I'm having is this -- We don't KNOW that "none of the guys on our roster right now are great basketball players". All we actually know is "some of them showed flashes but overall they were not elite as freshmen or sophomores on a severely depleted roster where they were often playing out of their natural roles". The same was true for some of the best and most memorable basketball players in MSU basketball history early in their career. Keep in mind that in an ideal environment, most of these guys would have been role players for a year or two -- and that's hopefully what they will be going forward. We shouldn't be defining what these guys are or are not based on their past -- and if we are -- we should be looking at the improvement they made from year 1 to year 2 and talking about how much we can extrapolate or expect them to improve from year 2 to year 3. By my count, we've got 6 guys on roster right now who have potential to be very good players for us -- and that isn't counting Roq, who has thusfar GREATLY exceeded my expectations at the 4. You can win with 7 very good players and a couple of other bodies giving you time here and there. You may not be able to go deep in March with that -- but you can do everything we got in the last 5 years of Stansbury with that.

I'm with you that we need to continue to upgrade talent. And we need to continue to develop talent. No doubt. I think I just believe we're closer to the light at the end of the tunnel than you do at this point...

MadDawg

11-19-2014, 04:24 PM

Great. So now we're quoting what REBELS have to say about Engie as "validation" to your girlish ego and thought process -- Truly fuggin full circle here at ELITEdawgs...

I would much rather talk with a rebel than your dumbass any day.

Dawg61

11-19-2014, 04:26 PM

Your "one" requirement? You've had so many different requirements that we can't keep up with them all.

What? Lie. Dress 13 scholis has been my one requirement since April. Look it up.

NewTweederEndzoneDance

11-19-2014, 05:33 PM

20 is less than 21 and 21 got him fired. Twenty wins is fair. 21 was a disaster that meant firing. Again twenty is fair. 17 wins is a fu@king joke. Will James could coach us to 17 wins in basketball.

Except that he wasn't coaching in a vacuum during that last season, so you can't realistically compare things strictly numbers to numbers.

What agenda must you have to keep misstating this?

"So year 3 of a rebuild MUST equal or exceed the season that got Stansbury fired?

There, fixed it for you.

You too? There was a whole lot more going on during Stansbury's last few years than simple wins and losses. Since you and Dawg61 cannot seem to grasp that simple concept, how about we compare this season to Stansbury's 3rd season: 2000-01 Mississippi State 18-13 7-9 T-4th (West);

And that was without inheriting a complete disaster in his first year. For the record, if we continue with this comparison: Stansbury's 2nd season - 14-16 (5-11). Ray's 2nd season - 14-19 (4-14). So in season 2 of the comparison, there wasn't much difference either. Again, without having inherited a complete dumpster fire.

I really think you guys are just trolling people at this point. And by people, I really mean engie, because he gets really uspet. However, these anti-Ray talking points (and well everything Dawg61 says about basketball, since his every post on the subject lacks any rational thinking) do get tiring. No one at all disputes that we must show signs of significant improvement this season or the Ray bandwagon will be lacking members.

drunkernhelldawg

11-19-2014, 05:45 PM

This is terrible. Does somebody maybe need to get a room?

Coach34

11-19-2014, 05:57 PM

JOHNHEVESYMADE

11-19-2014, 06:04 PM

What does Ray's record have to be in SEC play to keep his job? 6 wins? More? Less? He's 7-29 so far in my mind he needs to get at least 8.

Coach34

11-19-2014, 06:05 PM

Since you and Dawg61 cannot seem to grasp that simple concept, how about we compare this season to Stansbury's 3rd season: 2000-01 Mississippi State 18-13 7-9 T-4th (West);

And that was without inheriting a complete disaster in his first year. For the record, if we continue with this comparison: Stansbury's 2nd season - 14-16 (5-11). Ray's 2nd season - 14-19 (4-14). So in season 2 of the comparison, there wasn't much difference either. Again, without having inherited a complete dumpster fire.

I really think you guys are just trolling people at this point. And by people, I really mean engie, because he gets really uspet. However, these anti-Ray talking points (and well everything Dawg61 says about basketball, since his every post on the subject lacks any rational thinking) do get tiring. No one at all disputes that we must show signs of significant improvement this season or the Ray bandwagon will be lacking members.

eggggggsactly

MadDawg

11-19-2014, 06:14 PM

What does Ray's record have to be in SEC play to keep his job? 6 wins? More? Less? He's 7-29 so far in my mind he needs to get at least 8.

There are no amount of wins required for Ray to keep his job this year. He's going to be here at least 4 years. Period.

MabenMaroon

11-19-2014, 06:14 PM

Can somebody put these two in timeout. Would love to see a basketball discussion without it degenerating into the above. I know, my mistake for clicking on the thread, but I was hoping to see something about the new 4* recruit committing, oh well. Siiiggghhh!

drunkernhelldawg

11-19-2014, 06:20 PM

What does Ray's record have to be in SEC play to keep his job? 6 wins? More? Less? He's 7-29 so far in my mind he needs to get at least 8.

He is not on the hot seat. He gets at least one more year. I think we're better off giving him two.

Coach34

11-19-2014, 06:20 PM

What does Ray's record have to be in SEC play to keep his job? 6 wins? More? Less? He's 7-29 so far in my mind he needs to get at least 8.

To keep his job? I'd say 5...maybe 6

8 or more SEC wins and the admin will be pumped

Schultzy

11-19-2014, 06:56 PM

What does Ray's record have to be in SEC play to keep his job? 6 wins? More? Less? He's 7-29 so far in my mind he needs to get at least 8.

He is 0-0. His predecessor is 7-29 over the last two seasons.

Ray will succeed, get over it. Contrary to popular belief you can't rebuild in one season if you're not Kentucky.

BullDog

11-19-2014, 07:42 PM

Ray just needs to recruit. College basketball is all about talent. You can have a developmental football team, but not basketball. Ray could be an awesome floor coach, but we won't get to see it until he puts some kids on the floor that can play.

His classes so far have been terrible, and that's on him. He might have been in a bad way with boosters or whatever, but it's his job to figure it out and get guys in.

This guy is a good start, but he needs to get it going in 2015. Land Newman and he's got something to work from. I like Ray. I'll support Ray, but he's got to make some big strides on recruiting or we need to go another direction. I don't really care what the circumstances are.

Mercer vs. Duke http://youtu.be/oLUpKYjKlXg

None my biz though

Dawg61

11-19-2014, 08:21 PM

eggggggsactly

What you fail to realize is that 2000-2001 team made it to the final 8 of the NIT and had a roster with Mario Austin, Timmy Bowers, Michael Gholar, Markell Paterson, Tang Hamilton, Robert Jackson, Derick Zimmerman and Ontario Harper, Winsome Frazier, Marcus Campbell and Michael Ignerski coming in.

tcdog70

11-19-2014, 08:30 PM

I love MSU basketball, I am very opinionated. I respect other poster views and really don't like to get into a childish name calling tirade. but I am hesitant to post because of Engie and his insane name calling. I disagree with Coach but I can usually have a good back and forth without my blood pressure going Up. but Engie ruins most round ball threads by attacking those who don't agree with Him. It has been funny today because Engie has had his ass handed to Him. shit , I hope we do win twenty. But if I think Ray is doing.a Piss poor job , I would like to post that without having all those stupid stats throw up about something that happened three years ago. go Dogs and I hope Chicken returns and we win ten in a row.

Coach34

11-19-2014, 08:31 PM

What you fail to realize is that 2000-2001 team made it to the final 8 of the NIT and had a roster with Mario Austin, Timmy Bowers, Michael Gholar, Markell Paterson, Tang Hamilton, Robert Jackson, Derick Zimmerman and Ontario Harper, Winsome Frazier, Marcus Campbell and Michael Ignerski coming in.

I dont fail to realize anything- That team was 16-11 and 7-9 in the SEC. Lost their only game of the SEC Tourney to go to 16-12. That wont get you a CBI bid now. And that is the best Stands could do when he had been building that team for 4 years. He inherited a very damn good roster that had been disciplined by Williams- what Stands and Ray inherited are light years apart

And Ray has talent coming in also- so I'm not seeing the problem?

tcdog70

11-19-2014, 08:33 PM

[QUOTE=Dawg61;291609]What you fail to realize is that 2000-2001 team made it to the final 8 of the NIT and had a roster with Mario Austin, Timmy Bowers, Michael Gholar, Markell Paterson, Tang Hamilton, Robert Jackson, Derick Zimmerman and Ontario Harper, Winsome Frazier, Marcus Campbell and Michael Ignerski coming in.[/QUOTE

I was at every home game that year. the SEC was pretty ****ing tuff. Was that the year we beat Arizona at Arizona in a hell of a game, I think so.

Coach34

11-19-2014, 08:35 PM

I was at every home game that year. the SEC was pretty ****ing tuff. Was that the year we beat Arizona at Arizona in a hell of a game, I think so.

It was a better basketball conference then for sure

Dawg61

11-19-2014, 09:15 PM

It was a better basketball conference then for sure

The point that you're still missing was that team had loads of obvious potential in it. Yes our record wasn't great overall but we finished 7-9 in conference and won some postseason games. Things LOOKED bright. And they were because the very next year we went 27-8 and lost to Texas in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament. You think we're going to win 27 games next year C34? No you guys are too busy setting the bar so low at 17 wins.

smootness

11-19-2014, 09:29 PM

I think everybody knows what we're in for this year, and we all know it isn't because Ray isn't coaching well, it's because we don't have the players. That's his fault no matter what the circumstances are. If he will go get the players, we will win more games and everyone will be happy. If he doesn't, we won't, and it's time to move on.

We're getting them! You're commenting on a thread about landing an out-of-state stud somehow against all odds.

I will never understand why everyone's response to news like this isn't simply, 'Awesome, great news! Let's hope we can get even more.'

Everyone agrees our talent level has to continue to increase. But it doesn't happen instantly. The process is starting. Just be excited about this news; you don't have to qualify everything with, 'but we still need to do more.' We can't get more than one commit when one kid announces. This is the best possible news for us out of Simonds' announcement.

msstate7

11-19-2014, 09:30 PM

The point that you're still missing was that team had loads of obvious potential in it. Yes our record wasn't great overall but we finished 7-9 in conference and won some postseason games. Things LOOKED bright. And they were because the very next year we went 27-8 and lost to Texas in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament. You think we're going to win 27 games next year C34? No you guys are too busy setting the bar so low at 17 wins.

If we somehow land Malik, there's no telling how many games we could win. A young superstar surrounded by senior players would be a nice formula

engie

11-19-2014, 09:47 PM

Was there ever any doubt that you would show up for some blind support? Can none of you actually fight your own battles against me? Actually don't reply to that -- I already know the answer.

I respect other poster views and really don't like to get into a childish name calling tirade.
The first actual names called in both instances were your buddies Curly and Larry. But I don't guess I should be surprised when you see what you want to see. At some point, calling someone a dumbass is far more efficient than descriptively spelling out why those people are dumbasses in every single basketball thread in attempt to provide lessons that they never learn(because they are dumbasses). Yet this description and analogy will(again) escape you -- as I've already spelled this out for you in the most excruciating detail already this week. Surprise, surprise -- no lesson learned -- and back for more. Ex ?11? of dubmassery. Sorry I'm losing count.

But you are going to fight me IRL -- so I should probably slow my roll**

I am hesitant to post because of Engie and his insane name calling.
If you are hesitant to post, that's a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.

I disagree with Coach but I can usually have a good back and forth without my blood pressure going Up.
You haven't been around Coach for very long have you?

but Engie ruins most round ball threads by attacking those who don't agree with Him.
I don't ruin threads for people disagreeing with me. I CONTRIBUTE to their ruin for people being dumbasses. There's a big and clear difference. Fact is -- at this point -- I don't consider any of the 4 of you intelligent enough to have an actual basketball conversation with. If you are, you certainly can't convey intelligence through a keyboard. You've proven otherwise too many times. On the other hand -- I've got a number of respectful basketball conversations going on with people that can convey intelligence, even in this very thread. If you want me to have adult conversations with you -- form a decent adult opinion and don't post anything overtly ridiculous.

It has been funny today because Engie has had his ass handed to Him
Seeing what you want to see.

But if I think Ray is doing.a Piss poor job ,
We know. Although you can't actually tell us why you think it without saying dumb and historically incorrect things that, like a scab to me, must be picked.

shit , I hope we do win twenty.I would like to post that without having all those stupid stats throw up about something that happened three years ago. go Dogs and I hope Chicken returns and we win ten in a row.
That much we can agree on.

Coach34

11-19-2014, 09:50 PM

The point that you're still missing was that team had loads of obvious potential in it. Yes our record wasn't great overall but we finished 7-9 in conference and won some postseason games. Things LOOKED bright. And they were because the very next year we went 27-8 and lost to Texas in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament. You think we're going to win 27 games next year C34? No you guys are too busy setting the bar so low at 17 wins.

Rick Ray and Rick Standsbury didnt start at the same place. You are either too thickheaded or too dumb to understand that. And it STILL took Stands 4 years to make the Tourney

Dawg61

11-19-2014, 10:02 PM

If we somehow land Malik, there's no telling how many games we could win. A young superstar surrounded by senior players would be a nice formula

If Sly Croom had landed Ryan Perilloux we wouldn't be #4 in football right now. We wouldn't have Dan Mullen. Maybe when the writing is on the wall it's best to read it.

Dawg61

11-19-2014, 10:08 PM

Rick Ray and Rick Standsbury didnt start at the same place. You are either too thickheaded or too dumb to understand that. And it STILL took Stands 4 years to make the Tourney

It really doesn't matter what 2000-2001 was like for our coach. It's 2014. Ray must win. Wether it's 2000, 2014 or 2024. No excuses. Stop making excuses for him. First it was no bench. Then it was no boosters. Now it's no fans and just wait till he signs Newman and when true freshman (not ESPN top 150 )get here in 2016. Whatever you can do to extend Ray's clock you'll do it.

msstate7

11-19-2014, 10:12 PM

If Sly Croom had landed Ryan Perilloux we wouldn't be #4 in football right now. We wouldn't have Dan Mullen. Maybe when the writing is on the wall it's best to read it.

If you were in Scott's shoes, would you fire ray now or wait till he loses a game this year?

tcdog70

11-19-2014, 10:23 PM

Was there ever any doubt that you would show up for some blind support? Can none of you actually fight your own battles against me? Actually don't reply to that -- I already know the answer.

The first actual names called in both instances were your buddies Curly and Larry. But I don't guess I should be surprised when you see what you want to see. At some point, calling someone a dumbass is far more efficient than descriptively spelling out why those people are dumbasses in every single basketball thread in attempt to provide lessons that they never learn(because they are dumbasses). Yet this description and analogy will(again) escape you -- as I've already spelled this out for you in the most excruciating detail already this week. Surprise, surprise -- no lesson learned -- and back for more. Ex ?11? of dubmassery. Sorry I'm losing count.

But you are going to fight me IRL -- so I should probably slow my roll**

If you are hesitant to post, that's a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.

You haven't been around Coach for very long have you?

I don't ruin threads for people disagreeing with me. I CONTRIBUTE to their ruin for people being dumbasses. There's a big and clear difference. Fact is -- at this point -- I don't consider any of the 4 of you intelligent enough to have an actual basketball conversation with. If you are, you certainly can't convey intelligence through a keyboard. You've proven otherwise too many times. On the other hand -- I've got a number of respectful basketball conversations going on with people that can convey intelligence, even in this very thread. If you want me to have adult conversations with you -- form a decent adult opinion and don't post anything overtly ridiculous.

Seeing what you want to see.

We know. Although you can't actually tell us why you think it without saying dumb and historically incorrect things that, like a scab to me, must be picked.

That much we can agree on.

keep up the good work. We might even start an Engie Fan Club. You are definitely #1 with the bubble post. No one else can hold a candle to Engie. Your two state championship rings were you the manager?

Coach34

11-19-2014, 10:32 PM

It really doesn't matter what 2000-2001 was like for our coach. It's 2014. Ray must win. Wether it's 2000, 2014 or 2024. No excuses. Stop making excuses for him. First it was no bench. Then it was no boosters. Now it's no fans and just wait till he signs Newman and when true freshman (not ESPN top 150 )get here in 2016. Whatever you can do to extend Ray's clock you'll do it.

No- I've stated about 200 times he is going to get 4 years for sure. And then we will see where we are. The admin doesnt even count that 1st year and I agree with them- it was throw away

Dawg61

11-19-2014, 10:34 PM

If you were in Scott's shoes, would you fire ray now or wait till he loses a game this year?

He'd get this year regardless but as of right now it'd be his last year and I'd already be working on the replacement.

JOHNHEVESYMADE

11-19-2014, 10:42 PM

If you were in Scott's shoes, would you fire ray now or wait till he loses a game this year?

I wouldn't have hired Ray in the first place. Bad. Hire. I think we should all be concerned with Stricklin moving forward if Mullen were to ever leave I would be scared to death of him hiring a replacement coach.

MaxedOutMaroon

11-20-2014, 12:16 AM

I wouldn't have hired Ray in the first place. Bad. Hire. I think we should all be concerned with Stricklin moving forward if Mullen were to ever leave I would be scared to death of him hiring a replacement coach.

I would have used to agreed with you, but... I feel he knocked it out of the park with Vann and Vic. I realize they are both women's sports, but those two are monster coaches. I'm going to be bold here and say the women's basketball team will make it to the Final 4, 3 or 4 years from now if Vic stays. That team is young and talented. Please, go watch them if you have the chance. Trust me, I'm not affiliated with the team at all. Just know when a coach puts an excellent product on the court. And yes, I just helped this thread go from a basketball commit to Scott's hiring of the women's coach.