C34's rebuttal of Lester Miles comments about 3-4 bothering State

[Coach34]

Let me start of by saying that the 3-4 can certainly give you some problems in the run game- especially when you have Alabama talent. But as a good OC- there are some things you can do to absolutely give them fits. 57 and WestDawg- feel free to counterpoint anything you disagree with. I love the chalk talks

1. Go 5-wide- 3-4 teams hate the shit. Force their bigger players to play in space and run sideline to sideline. They hate it. Line up in 5-wide, bring a slot in motion to run the jet sweep or fake the sweep and hit the QB up inside. I'll talk in a few on what to do in blocking schemes for that. 5-wide forces them to put bigger players out in space more OR it forces them to take one of those bigger players out and play more of a nickel player. You can also run the option by bringing the inside slot in deep motion and run it to either side (deep motion, slot plants and cuts back to same side as pitch man)

http://footballcoachdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Diagram-6.jpg

2. Duece set- Doubles set with a TE to one side- hand on the ground. Keeps them in a 2 deep coverage OR they have to declare a strength and cheat. Do they play 6 in the box vs your 7? Do Do they lock up man? Locking up man makes them vulnerable to wheel with JRob down the sideline.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AvVl1qpOtRE/UV27UPT71WI/AAAAAAAAAKc/tOGUzLoNGME/s1600/Split+Tough+3+vs+Pro+Ace.jpg

3. Trey set- Trips to one side with a TE...hand on the ground

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MabkMABTh7k/Tx00I3Eyk4I/AAAAAAAAAao/XBv6hytFKh8/s1600/bear+vs+trey+open.jpg



Trips overloads a side and forces Bama to do the same- another thing the 3-4 hates. As you see in the diagram- the backside LB has to match with JRob. We have to win those battles.



4. Blocking schemes vs 3-4: Our zone scheme can give them fits. That Bama D doesnt like side to side because it makes their space-eaters have to move alot and open gaps. But if Bama is getting penetration and forcing our OL and backs deeper- then thats a problem. And that is what they do to people to give them problems in the run game. Here is short great video of a team doing it right out of a double tight-double wide set


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlmZzoy9uNU

I would counter with pounding their NG with our OG's and looping Day around up in the hole to attack the LB. Day is good enough to do that and with being a veteran, he can easily handle it. Dont let that NG get comfortable and make him wonder wtf people are going to come from. Dont let him get comfortable.

http://www.johntreed.com/images/foldBlock.gif


Those are just a few things you can do to attack a 3-4

[Coach34]

edited to fix pics

[smootness]

I trust Mullen's ability to scheme against any look you give him on defense. It doesn't matter what they run, we have a counter. And I trust Dak to execute it.

[Coach34]

I trust Mullen's ability to scheme against any look you give him on defense. It doesn't matter what they run, we have a counter. And I trust Dak to execute it.

Saturday is more about the OL imo than Dakota and the WR's

[WinningIsRelentless]

Look for some triple option using Gabe Myles out of the slot

[Todd4State]

I like your idea of Bear in the slot because it's going to force Bama to go with either a nickel, a safety, or hopefully a LB on him. Plus Bear is a pretty good blocker in his own right.

I think we will do a lot of up tempo stuff to try to get match-ups like Bear on a LB and keep them from subbing.

[Todd4State]

Look for some triple option using Gabe Myles out of the slot

Or Jameon.

[smootness]

Saturday is more about the OL imo than Dakota and the WR's

I disagree only because our scheme is based more around forcing the defense to show their hand and Dak making reads than it is about just manhandling teams. Even if our OL isn't getting a ton of push, we can have success through play design and making Bama's aggressiveness work against them.

[GTHOM]

Bama actually has played a lot of nickel this year, especially against the spread teams. I bet we see a lot of that. If they keep 6 or even 7 in the box we should be able to run the ball. Maybe not for 250 but definitely enough to make a difference. Man this thread is awesome

[Coach34]

Bama actually has played a lot of nickel this year, especially against the spread teams. I bet we see a lot of that. If they keep 6 or even 7 in the box we should be able to run the ball. Maybe not for 250 but definitely enough to make a difference. Man this thread is awesome

Well, thats the game they will play:

Can Bama control the box with 5 and 6 guys? If they can- we are beat.
If Bama is forced to go 7 into the box- how many big plays does State hit in the passing game?

It's a coaches dream Saturday- great offense vs great defense

[WinningIsRelentless]

Or Jameon.
I wouldn't use jameon because he doesn't have the pure speed you need to get the corner. Holloway would be my second option behind myles

[messageboardsuperhero]

I like your point about overloading pass catchers to one side of the formation. UM did this a lot by bunching receivers and having them run routes that spaced well as they developed when they started moving the ball on Bama in the fourth quarter. This put those big guys in conflict and forced them to choose who to try and cover in space and usually led to at least one guy being open downfield.

One thing you can't do against Bama is "be normal." You've got to throw a bunch of different formations out there and force guys to do things they aren't comfortable with (ie, force a 260 pound LB to cover Gabe Myles in space). This is why spread teams have had success against Bama.

[CadaverDawg]

I wouldn't use jameon because he doesn't have the pure speed you need to get the corner. Holloway would be my second option behind myles

Oh Lord, then please let it be Myles. I agree about Jameon.

Sorry, but let's leave Holloway to face UTMartin, not the guys that nearly made him combust....


http://youtu.be/C0draIupgLo

[Political Hack]

Saturday is more about the OL imo than Dakota and the WR's

Dark has to make the right reads. Bama will group bunch 3-man sets off the edge between the end, OLB, and S. he'll have to know who's coming, who his read is, and when to hand it/keep it. That play is our bread and butter. we can't let them take that from us.

[ShotgunDawg]

Delete

[Coach34]

fc X

English mf'er- do you speak it???

(perfect time for a Pulp Fiction quote)

[ShotgunDawg]

English mf'er- do you speak it???

(perfect time for a Pulp Fiction quote)

LOL, Sorry, my daughter got a hold of the key board

[SDDawg]

Oh Lord, then please let it be Myles. I agree about Jameon.

Sorry, but let's leave Holloway to face UTMartin, not the guys that nearly made him combust....



That was a targeting penalty that was never called...

[ShotgunDawg]

It's only Monday...... WTH are we going to talk about all week? I mean, it's only Monday and we already got C34 drawing shit up on notebook paper and taking a picture of it.

Are we just going to complain about analysts we don't agree with all week?

Are we going to start another thread when some analysts mentions our OOC Schedule?

We appear to be healthy, so it doesn't appear that an injury thread will be coming.

Are we going to break down Xs & Os? Not sure what else there is to talk about, since if our offense can score 24-30 points, it be over

So what exactly are we going to talk about?

During the LSU week, I remember us being totally tapped out by about Thursday, and this appears to be going at a greater pace than that.

We need need lots of GIF threads, Look a likes, Limericks, and maybe a few Ole Miss threads thrown in. Hopefully, we'll also have a pep talk thread where 57 will contibute

We must guard against premature - gameplantiation

[FlabLoser]

Only fight I've ever seen in the stands at Scott Field was when Jay Barker's Bama came in.

Our student section was general admission with nobody checking tickets. Bama students came in by the dozens and claimed our prime time spots.

Drunk Bama girl kept yelling roll tide every 60 seconds and a pretty good haymaker fight broke out between 5-6 people. I've never seen a nose bleed so bad.

[starkvegasdawg]

It's only Monday...... WTH are we going to talk about all week?

Let's discuss over a royale with cheese.

[TheRef]

Let's discuss over a royale with cheese.

I see what you did there.

[Percho]

Oh Lord, then please let it be Myles. I agree about Jameon.

Sorry, but let's leave Holloway to face UTMartin, not the guys that nearly made him combust....


http://youtu.be/C0draIupgLo

Jones should have to sit this year for that play last year.

[drunkernhelldawg]

I love this discussion even though I'm not really wired to think this deep into strategy. The original post introduces a ton of insightful ideas. I like the match ups shown. I'm not really big on the idea of everything being fresh and new for this one game. My own feeling is that it's gonna come down to basic football. LOS control, no turnovers, make plays when the chance is there. What a game week.

[Dawg61]

Oh Lord, then please let it be Myles. I agree about Jameon.

Sorry, but let's leave Holloway to face UTMartin, not the guys that nearly made him combust....


http://youtu.be/C0draIupgLo

Man sooner or later you're just going to have to get over last year with Holloway. Guy was a very undersized true freshman that saw a lot of PT and he made some plays too. This year he's stronger and tough as nails. He has elite speed. He is almost always the fastest player on the field against SEC competition. He was better as a freshman than some of the players we see playing this year as freshman. He is way ahead of most the guys in his class. Holloway is used when the defense is gassed. His speed to the outside is a pain to deal with when the defense is sucking air already.

[MzTerry]

Man sooner or later you're just going to have to get over last year with Holloway. Guy was a very undersized true freshman that saw a lot of PT and he made some plays too. This year he's stronger and tough as nails. He has elite speed. He is almost always the fastest player on the field against SEC competition. He was better as a freshman than some of the players we see playing this year as freshman. He is way ahead of most the guys in his class. Holloway is used when the defense is gassed. His speed to the outside is a pain to deal with when the defense is sucking air already.

Pretty sure he was a redshirt freshman, but the overall point of your post remains mostly intact. He's not elite overall, but his elite speed should definitely be used some.

[Coach34]

I love this discussion even though I'm not really wired to think this deep into strategy. The original post introduces a ton of insightful ideas. I like the match ups shown. I'm not really big on the idea of everything being fresh and new for this one game. My own feeling is that it's gonna come down to basic football. LOS control, no turnovers, make plays when the chance is there. What a game week.

I'm not saying do a bunch of new things- we already use the 5-wides set and the Deuce set.
As far as blocking schemes, because the 3-4 and 4-3 are different- the OL is forced to make some blocking assignment changes. If you handle the NG in a 3-4, their ass is in trouble. I'm simply showing what I would personally do- and Hev knows more about this shit than I ever will. We'll be coached up and ready

[Reason2succeed]

I love Holloway's speed in the 4th qtr. He is a game breaker for sure if he get a few good blocks. Having said that I doubt he will be used much in this game. Next year I expect him to play a role no matter who the feature back becomes.

I'm assuming that JRob is going to cash in and go pro. He ought to. His stock will be through the roof by year's end.

[drunkernhelldawg]

I'm not saying do a bunch of new things- we already use the 5-wides set and the Deuce set.
As far as blocking schemes, because the 3-4 and 4-3 are different- the OL is forced to make some blocking assignment changes. If you handle the NG in a 3-4, their ass is in trouble. I'm simply showing what I would personally do- and Hev knows more about this shit than I ever will. We'll be coached up and ready

I think the 3-4 is probably something we'll have to respond to. I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of this happening.

[Coach 57]

C34, that's pretty good. I'll say this the way to attack the 3-4 is between the hashes. With either using a slot (it REALLY needs to be Jameon) or Malcolm. The reason I say Jameon (of course this means if he's at 100%) is because he runs routes better than Gabe right now. The corner route, outs, all should set up the seam & post. Bama's strength is no doubt their ILBs & it all is anchored by their 1 tech NT. He's a monster. Dillon, Ben & Justin will definitely have their hands full in this game. He's actually quicker than Cody used to be. And him being that "twitchy" quick creates issues for interior OLmen. They aren't really THAT good at the pass rush besides those positions. When we do drop back whoever the back is if we go max protect MUST catch Ragland! He hits HARD! But the way to remedy all of this is using the screen pass. Something LSU did once (that I saw) and got away from. It will make the ILBs & DTs slow their rush to watch for it. Sorry, I know o block up my posts. But it's just my 2 cents on this topic. God bless.

[ShotgunDawg]

Beat A'Shawn Robinson, Beat Bama

[OurState]

This is great thread thank you

[drunkernhelldawg]

This is great thread thank you

Don't neglect to check out C34's video of blocking schemes in this thread. Interesting stuff.

[HoopsDawg]

C34, that's pretty good. I'll say this the way to attack the 3-4 is between the hashes. With either using a slot (it REALLY needs to be Jameon) or Malcolm. The reason I say Jameon (of course this means if he's at 100%) is because he runs routes better than Gabe right now. The corner route, outs, all should set up the seam & post. Bama's strength is no doubt their ILBs & it all is anchored by their 1 tech NT. He's a monster. Dillon, Ben & Justin will definitely have their hands full in this game. He's actually quicker than Cody used to be. And him being that "twitchy" quick creates issues for interior OLmen. They aren't really THAT good at the pass rush besides those positions. When we do drop back whoever the back is if we go max protect MUST catch Ragland! He hits HARD! But the way to remedy all of this is using the screen pass. Something LSU did once (that I saw) and got away from. It will make the ILBs & DTs slow their rush to watch for it. Sorry, I know o block up my posts. But it's just my 2 cents on this topic. God bless.

We're not a very good screen team. Never have been under Mullen. Day needs to be play the game of his life. If he does, Dak can carry the whole offense on his shoulders.