Question for the Old Timers about the 1975-1976 football teams

[SouthMsDawg]

Why did we have to forfeit every single game for those two seasons. Those were a few years before I was born and I never hear people talk much about those years and why and what we did to have to forfeit those wins.

[TheRef]

Why did we have to forfeit every single game for those two seasons. Those were a few years before I was born and I never hear people talk much about those years and why and what we did to have to forfeit those wins.

Recruiting violations...

[SouthMsDawg]

What players? How severe? I know it was recruiting violations but it was AFTER the seasons were played we had to forfeit the games.

Anybody have a better answer than the Ref.

[Schultzy]

A player got a student discount for a sports coat at a clothing store in the Delta owned by an MSU alum. This was deemed an impermissible benefit and since he played those two seasons we had to forfeit the games he played in.

Very silly stuff. Some people think other powerful coaches in conference were worried Bob Tyler was about to win big at State and so they got this done to put an end to it.

[engie]

77 too...

[Schultzy]

What players? How severe? I know it was recruiting violations but it was AFTER the seasons were played we had to forfeit the games.

Anybody have a better answer than the Ref.

Either Larry Gillard, Ray Costic or both. Not sure but we got railroaded bad on that deal, especially considering how rampant extra benefits were across college football recruiting in those days.

Eta: It's also an example of how corrupt the NCAA has been for all these decades, they were easily swayed by the more powerful in college football.

[Coach34]

all that over a discount on a sport coat

[Martianlander]

Bob Tyler sued the NCAA, maybe with justification, but it just got worse from there. A lot of people believe State's basketball team didn't make the tournament because Tyler was the AD. Green was the coach and went to Murray State after that year.

[cujo]

Larry Gillard was the player and Tyler was told not to play him. He ignored the NCAA and played him anyway. Later he poked his finger in their eye by suing them. We ended up forfeiting every game Gillard played in, including two wins against Ole Miss and two against USM.
Had Tyler not played Gillard, we would have still been hit with probation/penalties, but would not have had to forfeit all those wins.

[Schultzy]

all that over a discount on a sport coat

That's right, one damn sports coat and they didn't even claim it was given, just discounted. We should really petition for those wins back at some point.

[CadaverDawg]

http://unrealitymag.bcmediagroup.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/old_guys_6.gif

[West Houston Dog]

, then Bob Tyler went ahead and played Larry Gillard> Later all the wins we had during the time he played, NCAA later made us forfeit. If I remember correctly, it was not like Gillard was a big time stud or the reason we won those games....

The other thing I remember from that time was the clothing discount(10%?) applied to all Mississippi college students. Gillard got the same discount I could have received, but the NCAA still nailed us for that discount....

[AROB44]

The discount was given to Larry Gillard. That was the official reason given by the NCAA. I, and many others at that time, thought we were given severe penalties not for the discount, but because of what the NCAA THOUGHT was going on which they could not prove. As one who was much much closer to recruiting and players back then, I, in all honesty, can say that there was a LOT of shit going on. That is all I will say on the matter....what is past is past.

[State82]

all that over a discount on a sport coat

Weelllll, kinda sorta. That's all they could come up with from a proof standpoint. Our network was pretty clever back in those days. I didn't know the details until a number of years later when I went to work for someone involved with the "network" at that time. It was pretty ingenious though.

[The Croom Diaries]

Here's the story: http://maroonandwhitenation.com/2013/08/14/remembering-the-past-the-larry-gillard-discount-2/

[BulldogBear]

That's right, one damn sports coat and they didn't even claim it was given, just discounted. We should really petition for those wins back at some point.
this^ I'd rather lose 10 schollies than forfeit a game. It gives a false impression. Hate forfiets.

[dawgoneyall]

Three people from Falkner High turned State in after the ole miss offer was turned down. That happened. I knew two of the three.

[Schultzy]

The discount was given to Larry Gillard. That was the official reason given by the NCAA. I, and many others at that time, thought we were given severe penalties not for the discount, but because of what the NCAA THOUGHT was going on which they could not prove. As one who was much much closer to recruiting and players back then, I, in all honesty, can say that there was a LOT of shit going on. That is all I will say on the matter....what is past is past.
Ok, but there was a lot going on Everywhere. They could've put the whole damn country on probation for what they THOUGHT was going on. State was getting good, and that was unacceptable to our rivals. Plus, the fight over who got the job after Vaught were between two factions, the Tyler crowd and the Ken Cooper crowd and Tyler Was making the Cooper decision look bad.

[Mutt the Hoople]

Ken Cooper didn't become Ole Miss coach until 1974. Bob Tyler was OM coach for about 6 hours in 1971, then the Kinard Brothers orchestrated an in-house coup to steal the job from them.

Frank Kinard was fired after losing to Memphis State in 1973. Johnny Vaught took over for the rest of the season, then Ken Cooper was hired. We puddle-stomped them in the 1974 game...that obviously didn't sit well with the delusional Rebel alumni. So, they orchestrated the Larry Gillard Eligibility Lynching.

Whether Bob Tyler out of the goodness of his heart, wanting to stick his finger in the eye of the NCAA, or trying to get back into the good graces of his old Rebel friends, nobody really knows.

[OurState]

The discount was given to Larry Gillard. That was the official reason given by the NCAA. I, and many others at that time, thought we were given severe penalties not for the discount, but because of what the NCAA THOUGHT was going on which they could not prove. As one who was much much closer to recruiting and players back then, I, in all honesty, can say that there was a LOT of shit going on. That is all I will say on the matter....what is past is past.

^^^^^. This. The past is the past. I hate the narrative that we never break rules but always get put on probation. It makes us look incompetent.

[Schultzy]

^^^^^. This. The past is the past. I hate the narrative that we never break rules but always get put on probation. It makes us look incompetent.

It was not a matter of competence, it was a matter of political clout. They proved nothing and declared someone ineligible for (officially) getting the same damn discount every other student, regardless of where they went to school, got.

Contemporarily speaking, I get tired of the complaining about other schools breaking rules too.

[Coach66]

A player got a student discount for a sports coat at a clothing store in the Delta owned by an MSU alum. This was deemed an impermissible benefit and since he played those two seasons we had to forfeit the games he played in.

Very silly stuff. Some people think other powerful coaches in conference were worried Bob Tyler was about to win big at State and so they got this done to put an end to it.

Part is he gave every student the same discount. Complete and total billshit.

[Quaoarsking]

Is appealing to the NCAA to reinstate the wins a realistic possibility? It sure sounds like the type of penalty would never hand out nowadays.

[Schultzy]

Three people from Falkner High turned State in after the ole miss offer was turned down. That happened. I knew two of the three.

This is one hell of a post, you always knew it was something like this but just didn't know exactly how it went down.

[OurState]

Is appealing to the NCAA to reinstate the wins a realistic possibility? It sure sounds like the type of penalty would never hand out nowadays.


That is a cute idea but also an insanely naive one.

If the NCAA were focused on being fair that would be a reasonable request.

The reality is that it is a political organization on the ropes. It has been emasculated and declawed. All it has is its legacy of former actions. The odds of them dismantling that legacy by reversing old rulings against SEC teams is pretty close to zero.

[Fred Garvin]

My recollection was that it was a store in Okolona.

[Spotted]

Larry Gillard was the sacrificial lamb for the NCAA. Bob Tyler had MSU a whole lot better in a very short period of time (ahem, by any means possible) and the NCAA was pissed. Other large schools in the conference prodded the NCAA to be pissed.

Gillard showed up to MSU fir his freshman year in a borrowed car with his parents and an aunt driving. He came to school with a few tshirts and a couple of pair of jeans. He was a completely naive and as sweet of a guy as you would ever want to meet--except when he played defense. Long story short, his grandmother passed away as best as I remember and he needed a coat for the funeral. Went to Okolona and bought one--at Miskelly's (sound familiar?) and got the standard MSU student discount.

Yes, Bob Tyler fought the NCAA every step of the way. Back then that was a sign of insurrection that needed to be put down hard. And they did.

Gillard had several NFL scouts attest to his potential as a pro in the court proceedings that followed. I think there were civil actions to try and place responsibilty on the NCAA for arbitrary and reckless punishment...and deservedly so. It was all about punishing an ego-driven Bob Tyler and an upstart team in the SEC. Gillard kind of lost his drive after that. It could have been stress, paranoia or just intimidation...but it was obvious. Great guy.

I ran into Larry a couple of years ago at the Sun Bowl reunion and he has become a very successful minister and was dressed to the nines. He was in extremely good spirits and smiled and laughed like the old days. Good for him.

[Bullmutt]

Bob Tyler sued the NCAA, maybe with justification, but it just got worse from there. A lot of people believe State's basketball team didn't make the tournament because Tyler was the AD. Green was the coach and went to Murray State after that year.

Someone please correct me if my memory is faulty, but I don't believe Tyler ever got the AD job. The fact that he didn't was strongly rumored at the time to be one of the reasons he so willingly departed to NTS.

[Liverpooldawg]

Gillard was declared ineligible by the NCAA. Tyler went to court and got an injunction to allow him to play. He played while the case wound through the courts. When we lost the case the NCAA forfeited every game he played in. That is why schools don't try that now.

[tcdog70]

Someone please correct me if my memory is faulty, but I don't believe Tyler ever got the AD job. The fact that he didn't was strongly rumored at the time to be one of the reasons he so willingly departed to NTS.

Bob Tyler was our AD. Ron Greene left us because of Tyler. Don't forget Bob's son Tyler was a wr for Us but left and played for the Rebs when His Dad left. Our basketball team finished in Second place in the SEC and went nowhere.

[tcdog70]

I remember a Bama Game where they stuffed Us 4 times on the goal line. Tyler was livid with Tom Goode our OL coach because His Ol could not blow Bama off the line. We out played the Tide and still lost. Ole Bob didn't take it well.

[onetl]

Ken Cooper didn't become Ole Miss coach until 1974. Bob Tyler was OM coach for about 6 hours in 1971, then the Kinard Brothers orchestrated an in-house coup to steal the job from them.

Frank Kinard was fired after losing to Memphis State in 1973. Johnny Vaught took over for the rest of the season, then Ken Cooper was hired. We puddle-stomped them in the 1974 game...that obviously didn't sit well with the delusional Rebel alumni. So, they orchestrated the Larry Gillard Eligibility Lynching.

Whether Bob Tyler out of the goodness of his heart, wanting to stick his finger in the eye of the NCAA, or trying to get back into the good graces of his old Rebel friends, nobody really knows.

NOT Frank Kinard was Head coach

[tcdog70]

Billy Kinard brother of Brusier. was 10-2 then fell to 5-5-then lost to memphis State and was canned.

[Percho]

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1917&dat=19780301&id=C9swAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-98FAAAAIBAJ&pg=1079,95739

[NCDawg]

My recollection was that it was a store in Okolona.

Your recollection is correct. Also, an attorney in Kosicusko turned us in for alleged recruiting violations in reference to a RB from Kosciusko by the name of Jeffery Moore. Moore ended us signing with Jackson State.

[NCDawg]

NOT Frank Kinard was Head coach

Think Billy Kinard was the Ole Miss coach after Vaught.