Braves perhaps trading bj and gattis to cubs in offseason

[msstate7]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/08/braves-to-revisit-b-j-upton-trade-talks-could-move-gattis-in-offseason.html

"Talks of a rumored deal that would have sent B.J. Upton to the Cubs (perhaps along with a pitcher or cash) in exchange for Edwin Jackson have been circulating over the past couple weeks, and David O?Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports that it could be because the Braves would like to rekindle those talks in the offseason.

It won?t be easy to trade Upton and the remaining $47MM on his contract, of course, but the Braves could be willing to sweeten the deal by including three years of Mike Minor or by including a significant amount of cash to help offset Upton?s salary. The Braves are not, however, interested in including both Minor and cash in order to facilitate a trade. Regardless of how the ties are severed, O?Brien feels that it is a fait accompli that the elder Upton is dealt by next Spring Training. (Of course, many people felt the same about Dan Uggla, who lingered on Atlanta?s roster well into the summer.)

Minor has struggled for much of the season after opening the year on the disabled list, pitching to a 4.90 ERA with 8.0 K/9, 2.7 BB/9 and a 39.3 percent ground-ball rate. Minor?s main problem has been an increased home run rate which, paired with an uptick in his walks, has led to a HR/9 rate of 1.51 ? fifth-worst among pitchers with at least 110 innings thrown in 2014. Nonetheless, three years of a pitcher who posted a 3.72 ERA in 466 2/3 innings from 2011-13 (including a stellar 3.21 mark in 204 2/3 innings last year) would have value to pitching-hungry teams.

Perhaps more interesting is the fact that O?Brien also feels there?s ?at least a pretty good chance? that Gattis could be traded in the coming offseason. While Atlanta loves Gattis? bat, it is less enamored with his defensive prowess and isn?t certain how long his 250-pound frame can hold up at the position. Meanwhile, waiting in the wings is top prospect Christian Bethancourt, who is known for his strong arm and receiving skills.

As O?Brien points out, Gattis would make for a nice trade target for an American League club, given the fact that he could split time between DH and catcher (and perhaps the outfield on occasion). The 28-year-old is hitting a hefty .276/.331/.520 with 20 homers in 353 plate appearances this season, quieting some skeptics (myself included) who felt that his hot start in 2013 may not have been sustainable.

Gattis will finish the season with exactly two years of Major League service, meaning that a club could potentially gain four years of team control over a 20-30 homer bat, and that would certainly have value on the trade market, especially given the dearth of starting-caliber catchers on the free agent market. Beyond Russell Martin, teams looking for catching help will be left looking at A.J. Pierzynski and Geovany Soto in the second tier of free agent backstops."


Messed up title. Sorry

[War Machine Dawg]

If we deal Gattis, I'm going to be PISSED. We NEED his bat more than we need D. And his D isn't bad. I don't understand where the knock on him in that regard is coming from. The pitching staff loves the guy. I swear, we need a new GM. Frank Wren is a f-ing idiot.

[smootness]

If we deal Gattis, I'm going to be PISSED. We NEED his bat more than we need D. And his D isn't bad. I don't understand where the knock on him in that regard is coming from. The pitching staff loves the guy. I swear, we need a new GM. Frank Wren is a f-ing idiot.

It's not that Gattis' D is terrible, it's that Bethancourt will save a ton of runs behind the plate. It's an either/or, and I guess it's possible we prefer Bethancourt long-term. I don't want to lose Gattis, either, but it depends on what we could get for him.

[KB21]

I can understand the concern over whether Gattis will hold up behind the plate. He's already 27, and while he doesn't have the miles on him that other catchers have, this is still a demanding position. Plus, his size does him no good with his knees. The Braves have always favored offensive oriented catchers though, at least during their run of success. Javy Lopez and Brian McCann have caught the majority of the games for the Braves since the 1994 season, and both of them are .800+ offensive players. Trading Evan doesn't make sense in the short term unless Christian Bethancourt becomes the NL version of Salvador Perez.

[BoomBoom]

If its a stud cost-controlled OF in retur, to replace BJ, then sure. But I wouldnt do it yet. Gattis hasnt reached his potential, amd trading him now would be selling a little low. Plus, waiting till June to call up CB saves money down the line.

[The Federalist Engineer]

It is unforgivable to have signed BJ Upton in the first place. It was no secret that Madden thought Upton was piece of shit human being with no soul. I guess we have to give away a nice player to give our cancer to somebody else.

This said, Jackson is not worth it. I would rather keep Gattis and let a young pitcher develop than waste innings on a journeyman. Just release BJ and hope he dies in a crack binge and then you save some money (? Do we have to pay the estate). I'm sure there is a minor league CF that can give us twice the production for almost no cost.

[dawgs]

If I'm the braves, no way do I give up minor with bj for just Edwin Jackson. If rather eat bj's contract and let him be a bench player or waive him. If I'm the cubs, I'd do this deal ASAP. A potential #2 SP for nothing but the cost of paying bj upton's remaining contract.

[smootness]

It is unforgivable to have signed BJ Upton in the first place. It was no secret that Madden thought Upton was piece of shit human being with no soul. I guess we have to give away a nice player to give our cancer to somebody else.

This said, Jackson is not worth it. I would rather keep Gattis and let a young pitcher develop than waste innings on a journeyman. Just release BJ and hope he dies in a crack binge and then you save some money (? Do we have to pay the estate). I'm sure there is a minor league CF that can give us twice the production for almost no cost.

The rumor is not that Gattis and BJ would both go in the same deal, just that they could both be dealt.

[msstate7]

The rumor is not that Gattis and BJ would both go in the same deal, just that they could both be dealt.

Yeah that's my fault. Bad subject line.

[msstate7]

If I'm wren, I'm shopping jup, gattis, Chris Johnson, and of course bj this offseason.

We're very unlikely to sign jup, so I'd try and get a killer package for him.

I like bethancourt for long term, so I'd entertain offers for gattis. I wouldn't give him away though. With no free agent catchers available who knows what you might pull for gattis.

Chris Johnson bc he's not a good defender and his OBP is terrible. Kyle kubitza could be the answer at 3b

The only reason I'd consider letting minor go with bj is bc it would allow us to extend jhey. I also think we stand a better chance of fixing a pitcher (Jackson) than a hitter (bj)

[War Machine Dawg]

If I'm wren, I'm shopping jup, gattis, Chris Johnson, and of course bj this offseason.

We're very unlikely to sign jup, so I'd try and get a killer package for him.

I like bethancourt for long term, so I'd entertain offers for gattis. I wouldn't give him away though. With no free agent catchers available who knows what you might pull for gattis.

Chris Johnson bc he's not a good defender and his OBP is terrible. Kyle kubitza could be the answer at 3b

The only reason I'd consider letting minor go with bj is bc it would allow us to extend jhey. I also think we stand a better chance of fixing a pitcher (Jackson) than a hitter (bj)

Dunno why you're so hot for J-Hey. Other than his D, which is insane, he isn't a great player. Hell, I'd shop him like crazy this offseason instead of J-Up. Take that money and do whatever it takes to re-sign J-Up. Minor > J-Hey at this point, so far as I'm concerned. Pitching is always at a premium. And despite being rocky this year, I'm still a believer in Minor. J-Hey isn't a player I'm willing to pay big money to retain and build around. We've already spent enough on Freddie and Simmons, plus we're still paying that jackass Uggla. And we're going to be paying a nice chunk to BJ regardless of whether or not someone is dumb enough to trade for him, which I don't believe there's a GM that dumb. Especially not Theo Epstein.

If I'm in charge, I move CJ, J-Hey, BJ this offseason. I'd at least listen to offers for LaStella. He or Gosselin needs to move to make room for Peraza. The reason I move LaStella is he can only play 2B. Keep Gosselin, who looks ready, and shift him over to 3B. That leaves us with J-Up in the OF, plus whatever 2 bats we can scrape together. Hitters, especially OF hitters, can be found pretty easily. Hell, I'd look into prying away Either, Kemp or Crawford from the Dodgers. They've gotta de-clutter their OF somehow, might as well see if they'd be willing to make a deal.

Unfortunately, my guess is we'll see the same shitty team next season, minus Gattis and his badass bat. I have absolutely no faith in Wren. He'll hold on to BJ, thinking he'll turn it around somehow and can't possibly be so terrible 3 seasons in a row. He's sold on CJ, who I like, but think we can upgrade in-house on the cheap with Gosselin. And we'll keep J-Hey to play amazing D, hit about 18 HRs, tease us with his potential, play great D, but never be the franchise player he was billed to be. F me, how did the Braves come to this?

[ShotgunDawg]

I can't imagine the Cubs would trade for a position player. They need pitching. They currently have more big league ready position player prospects than any other organization.

[War Machine Dawg]

I can't imagine the Cubs would trade for a position player. They need pitching. They currently have more big league ready position player prospects than any other organization.

Exactly. Theo Epstein is a great GM. He isn't trading for a washed up position player with a massive contract that adds zero value to his team that he can't already get from within the organization. The only way he'd do it is if we deal Minor, and if we do that, we're the biggest idiots in MLB.

[dawgs]

Exactly. Theo Epstein is a great GM. He isn't trading for a washed up position player with a massive contract that adds zero value to his team that he can't already get from within the organization. The only way he'd do it is if we deal Minor, and if we do that, we're the biggest idiots in MLB.

BUT if he can get a pitcher like minor still under 3 or 4 years of team control, and all it'll cost them is Edwin Jackson (a guy proven to be nothing more than a replaceable back end of the rotation guy) and whatever is left on bj upton's contract, he might do it. Money isn't a problem for the cubs, and he would be a core piece of the rotation to build on without giving up a single one of the young stud bats they are bringing up. They'd either hope to fix upton or waive him and eat the money or use him off the bench, but they whole point in making that deal would be purely to get minor, NOT upton. Upton would just be the price they'd pay.

Here's one way to consider it, a pitcher with minor's potential would cost more than the ~$45M over 3 years left on upton's contract. Minor would still be under team control during that time. So combined, they'd cost about $20M the next few years. Not cheap, but not gonna kill a franchise with the cub's money and this many position players under team control for 5+ years. And it'd be nice for the cubs to get a SP that's on the good side of 30 instead of overpaying in years for a SP on the wrong side of 30.

[War Machine Dawg]

BUT if he can get a pitcher like minor still under 3 or 4 years of team control, and all it'll cost them is Edwin Jackson (a guy proven to be nothing more than a replaceable back end of the rotation guy) and whatever is left on bj upton's contract, he might do it. Money isn't a problem for the cubs, and he would be a core piece of the rotation to build on without giving up a single one of the young stud bats they are bringing up. They'd either hope to fix upton or waive him and eat the money or use him off the bench, but they whole point in making that deal would be purely to get minor, NOT upton. Upton would just be the price they'd pay.

Here's one way to consider it, a pitcher with minor's potential would cost more than the ~$45M over 3 years left on upton's contract. Minor would still be under team control during that time. So combined, they'd cost about $20M the next few years. Not cheap, but not gonna kill a franchise with the cub's money and this many position players under team control for 5+ years. And it'd be nice for the cubs to get a SP that's on the good side of 30 instead of overpaying in years for a SP on the wrong side of 30.

Oh, there's no doubt the only way they'd do the deal is to get Minor. That's why we'd be stupid to make Minor part of the deal. If someone wants BJ, they get BJ. I might package a bat or low end arm with him, but no way I'm putting a solid pitcher with him. And frankly, IF we make Minor part of the deal, it would have to be non-negotiable that we get a quality prospect back in return. It's the only way I'd even consider making that deal.

[The Federalist Engineer]

The rumor is not that Gattis and BJ would both go in the same deal, just that they could both be dealt.

Correct, but trading minor is even worse than losing Gattis. I think minor is still young and has great potential. We need to get more creative to jettison Upton in cleanest possible manner

[dawgs]

Oh, there's no doubt the only way they'd do the deal is to get Minor. That's why we'd be stupid to make Minor part of the deal. If someone wants BJ, they get BJ. I might package a bat or low end arm with him, but no way I'm putting a solid pitcher with him. And frankly, IF we make Minor part of the deal, it would have to be non-negotiable that we get a quality prospect back in return. It's the only way I'd even consider making that deal.

but no one is going to want BJ, the cubs wouldn't actually want him, they'd just might be willing to pay the braves' mistake off in exchange for a good young SP under team control. no one is going to take on ~$45M of BJ's remaining contract AND give up big time prospects just to get minor. if they are going to give up prospects, then they'll want minor and not BJ's contract. epstein isn't a dumbass. i'm pretty sure the only way to get BJ off the braves is to either pick up most of the tab yourself and get back nothing worthwhile or package him with a valuable asset that's not going to cost a lot of money (like minor) and take back significant less value in return in exchange for not paying BJ's remaining contract. the braves made a terrible signing, and they aren't going to be able to get out from under it easily. saying that if "someone wants BJ, they get BJ" is easier said than done, because no one wants BJ. i feared the rumors of the nats being involved in BJ were going to be true, but instead, they made a great deal for span to play CF. thank god.

[msstate7]

Package both uptons. The braves won't be able to resign jup. If you keep jup thru next season without getting rid of bj, you potentially lose jhey along with jup

[blacklistedbully]

So, who in the Cubs organization receives the BJ? Who in the Braves org is giving it, or will they contract that out to a "specialist"?

If it's part of the deal, it must be a damn good one! ;)