It's crazy how much Southern Miss got screwed by realignment

[Quaoarsking]

Conference USA in 2004:

TCU - now in the Big 12
Louisville - now in the ACC
Cincinnati - now in the AAC (former Big East)
East Carolina - now in the AAC (former Big East)
Houston - now in the AAC (former Big East)
Memphis - now in the AAC (former Big East)
South Florida - now in the AAC (former Big East)
Tulane - now in the AAC (former Big East)
Army - now Independent
UAB
Southern Miss

This list doesn't include schools like SMU, Tulsa, and Central Florida, who didn't join CUSA until after 2004, but still wound up in the AAC. Had the 2004 version of CUSA stayed together, it would be almost as good as the ACC is today and would definitely be the strongest non-power conference.


Compare this to the 2014 Conference USA lineup, along with their 2004 conference:

UAB
Southern Miss
Marshall (MAC)
Louisiana Tech (WAC)
Rice (WAC)
Tulsa (WAC)
UTEP (WAC)
Middle Tennessee (Sun Belt)
North Texas (Sun Belt)
Florida Atlantic (independent transitioning from FCS to FBS)
Florida International (independent transitioning from FCS to FBS)
Western Kentucky (Gateway Conference - FCS)
Charlotte (didn't have football)
Old Dominion (didn't have football)
UT-San Antonio (didn't have football)

[Coach34]

I think the emphasis Troy, South Alabama, UAB, LaTech and others around them have put on football has also weakened them considerably. There are only so many players to go around

[Bubb Rubb]

I think the emphasis Troy, South Alabama, UAB, LaTech and others around them have put on football has also weakened them considerably. There are only so many players to go around

One of these things is not like the others...

[FlabLoser]

There's a lack of high level leadership over at Mississippi Southern. Debt, attendance problems, asleep at the wheel as conferences realign.

I question how Memphis beat USM to the ACC. But it appears the ACC was going for TV sets. All those teams they added come from larger TV markets.

Mississippi has too many colleges per capita. As the college landscape is carved up into population centers, market forces are going to do what the state of MS should have done long ago - trim the waste.

I'll tell you what - charter membership in the SEC is the only thing saving MSU and Ole Miss's butt. If the SEC ever merges with another conference or even re-invents itself, look for one of either MSU or Ole Miss to get cut and go the way of USM.

[RougeDawg]

They did this to themselves. Partially by joining the conference after being a somewhat successful independent. Partly for not taking a lesser conference move from CUSA when they had a chance, but thought they deserved a big 5/6 conference. And mainly because they threw away the most successful, consistent, and loyal coach they will ever have. They thought they were much better than they actually were/are and they shot themselves in the foot.

When you have USM fans thinking and saying they would finish better than State and OM in the SEC, after going 9-3 in CUSA, there isn't much hope for the 10 fans or the program.

[Reason2succeed]

There's a lack of high level leadership over at Mississippi Southern. Debt, attendance problems, asleep at the wheel as conferences realign.

I question how Memphis beat USM to the ACC. But it appears the ACC was going for TV sets. All those teams they added come from larger TV markets.

Mississippi has too many colleges per capita. As the college landscape is carved up into population centers, market forces are going to do what the state of MS should have done long ago - trim the waste.

I'll tell you what - charter membership in the SEC is the only thing saving MSU and Ole Miss's butt. If the SEC ever merges with another conference or even re-invents itself, look for one of either MSU or Ole Miss to get cut and go the way of USM.

That's the reason why it is imperative for State to become more competitive especially in the revenue sports like football and men's basketball because I hate to say it but if the SEC cut a Mississippi team it would definitely be us.

[FlabLoser]

That's the reason why it is imperative for State to become more competitive especially in the revenue sports like football and men's basketball because I hate to say it but if the SEC cut a Mississippi team it would definitely be us.

Definitely? We are large and produce more revenue than Ole Miss. That's not a definitely.

But in the grand scheme of things, both schools are virtually equals. Probably comes down to politics. Gee, I wonder which school is better at politics**.

[Johnson85]

That's the reason why it is imperative for State to become more competitive especially in the revenue sports like football and men's basketball because I hate to say it but if the SEC cut a Mississippi team it would definitely be us.
????

No. It wouldn't definitely be either of us, but we have more fans and our alums earn more. We also have some history in basketball and a better history in baseball, and slightly more success in the past 25 years in football, and don't consistently have incidents involving race hit the news. It's close enough that the right politicking could push UM ahead, but we'd be starting in a better position and UM would have to play it perfectly to be picked over MSU if it came down to that, we'd just have to not screw it up.

[Coach34]

We are an original member of the SEC- we aren't going anywhere

[messageboardsuperhero]

The SEC isn't cutting anybody- especially a charter member. It just isn't going to happen.

You've been reading too much of the Orlando Sentinel.

[BulldogBear]

They did this to themselves. Partially by joining the conference after being a somewhat successful independent. Partly for not taking a lesser conference move from CUSA when they had a chance, but thought they deserved a big 5/6 conference. And mainly because they threw away the most successful, consistent, and loyal coach they will ever have. They thought they were much better than they actually were/are and they shot themselves in the foot.

When you have USM fans thinking and saying they would finish better than State and OM in the SEC, after going 9-3 in CUSA, there isn't much hope for the 10 fans or the program.

That's it right there. They offer NOTHING of value in conference realignment other than the fact they were a successful midmajor program. When that went away so did they... for good.

[State82]

The SEC isn't cutting anybody- especially a charter member. It just isn't going to happen.

Yep. Neither us or UM is going anywhere but to the bank.

[rabbitthedawg]

Couple years ago when Southern had that good year, one of their fans was telling me how they could be in top three or so if in the SEC. After doing some research, since 2001, Mississippi Southern has not won an SEC game. That is rather profound.

[Maroonthirteen]

I'm still snickering at Memphis fans talking up their conference. It is a shell of what the BigEast was. Hahahaha! But they are all about basketball.

As for MS, it isn't that ms has too many schools, it has to many trying to play big boy football. By why should USM step down? When every little school across the nation is trying to step up to a big payday too? I think Coach is exactly right though. The emergence of other regional teams are sucking up the 2nd tier talent. Combined with not a having a pray for top level talent with the SEC facilities.

[Dog316]

That's the reason why it is imperative for State to become more competitive especially in the revenue sports like football and men's basketball because I hate to say it but if the SEC cut a Mississippi team it would definitely be us.

^^^^^

Thank you for this insight. Poor ole us! If you hate to say it learn to keep your fingers off the keys.

[SDDawg]

The SEC ain't cutting anything. Could expand again though...

[Johnson85]

USM didn't get screwed by realignment, they just ended up where you would expect. If you look at all the schools that ended up in a better conference than them, every one has a clear advantage over USM. TCU is in Texas. Enough said. Louisville is the second school in their state v. USM being third in MS. Cincinnati, decent sized city. East Carolina I'm not sure about. memphis is in a decent sized city and should be the second biggest fan base in its state although it's not right now. Houson is in a huge city. South Florida is a huge school and in Florida. Tulane is a littlte bit of a head scratcher, but they are at least in a state that previously hasn't had a clear number 2 school.

USM fits in much better with the new CUSA teams than the old CUSA teams.

[Johnson85]

Yep. Neither us or UM is going anywhere but to the bank.

The only danger to MSU and UM is the formation fo a super conference, and I just don't see that happening any time soon. But eventually, schools like UF, and UTexas might get tired of sharing revenue with the smaller market schools, and I think you could have two super conferences with UF and FSU in different ones, BAma and maybe Auburn in different ones, and then LSU, USC, Oklahoma, UGA, Oregon, maybe Notre Dame, etc. Basically an NFL sized group split into two conferences. If something like that ever happens, neither State nor UM will have to worry about it because neither will likely make the cut.

[Reason2succeed]

^^^^^

Thank you for this insight. Poor ole us! If you hate to say it learn to keep your fingers off the keys.

I'll say whatever I dang well please thank you. I bleed maroon and I'm definitely not a poor Ole State fan but after living across the country I know that State MUST catch up with OM in terms of marketing and visibility. We have to start winning big against nationally known teams so that ESPN "the worldwide sports leader" will know the difference between OM and State. That's all I'm saying.

In other news, I feel like we are doing USM a HUGE favor by renewing this rivalry. This is a recruiting tool for them at a time when they need it in the worst way. USM football failed at the exact wrong time and did not have a BB program or city they could sell like Memphis.

[Dawg61]

Definitely? We are large and produce more revenue than Ole Miss. That's not a definitely.

But in the grand scheme of things, both schools are virtually equals. Probably comes down to politics. Gee, I wonder which school is better at politics**.

Welcome back! Thought you died or were stuck in a Turkish prison and I was going to have to break you out.

[dawgs]

The only danger to MSU and UM is the formation fo a super conference, and I just don't see that happening any time soon. But eventually, schools like UF, and UTexas might get tired of sharing revenue with the smaller market schools, and I think you could have two super conferences with UF and FSU in different ones, BAma and maybe Auburn in different ones, and then LSU, USC, Oklahoma, UGA, Oregon, maybe Notre Dame, etc. Basically an NFL sized group split into two conferences. If something like that ever happens, neither State nor UM will have to worry about it because neither will likely make the cut.

Don't think that would happen because you'd be cutting the number of relevant games down significantly, and tv likes games. The super conferences would be split into 4 conferences and be 64-80 teams total.

[BulldogBear]

USM didn't get screwed by realignment, they just ended up where you would expect. If you look at all the schools that ended up in a better conference than them, every one has a clear advantage over USM. TCU is in Texas. Enough said. Louisville is the second school in their state v. USM being third in MS. Cincinnati, decent sized city. East Carolina I'm not sure about. memphis is in a decent sized city and should be the second biggest fan base in its state although it's not right now. Houson is in a huge city. South Florida is a huge school and in Florida. Tulane is a littlte bit of a head scratcher, but they are at least in a state that previously hasn't had a clear number 2 school.

USM fits in much better with the new CUSA teams than the old CUSA teams.

Not that they carry it completely, but Tulane has NOLA Tv market. It's something. USM has no appreciable tv market. Maybe the coast. If you'r a midmajor and not in a decent TV market, you must be a successful winning program. Hardly any midmajors really carry their market so football relevance in that case is just as big of a deal and said relevance translates to some degree into TV marketability. When USM lost relevance their program died because they haven't a prayer of offering an expanding conference...well, anything. They just don't know it yet.

[BulldogBear]

You could say that trading Bower for EJ at the time the SEC was really really emerging (and by extension State and Ole Miss) created the perfect storm which destroyed Golden Eagle football relevance forever and for all time, barring some major paradigm shift in the future.

[War Machine Dawg]

There's a lack of high level leadership over at Mississippi Southern. Debt, attendance problems, asleep at the wheel as conferences realign.

I question how Memphis beat USM to the ACC. But it appears the ACC was going for TV sets. All those teams they added come from larger TV markets.

Mississippi has too many colleges per capita. As the college landscape is carved up into population centers, market forces are going to do what the state of MS should have done long ago - trim the waste.

I'll tell you what - charter membership in the SEC is the only thing saving MSU and Ole Miss's butt. If the SEC ever merges with another conference or even re-invents itself, look for one of either MSU or Ole Miss to get cut and go the way of USM.

Bingo. USM has had worse than shit for leadership. And the worst mistake the state of MS ever made in terms of collegiate athletics was deciding to go with 3 major regional in-state universities instead of 1 major centrally located university. Imagine never having to split the talent in this state among the Big 3. Hell, Delta State, JSU, and Alcorn even get a couple of solid depth players every year. MS would have been a collegiate athletics powerhouse to rival the most elite in college history. Sadly, we screwed it up before it ever got off the ground.

But, I also understand why the Powers That Be at the time did it that way. MS was, and in many ways still is, a very rural state. College athletics was less than an afterthought in the late 1800s. The decision was made that it would be easier for students to obtain an education at one of 3 regional in-state universities than it would be to get them to 1 centrally located university. It was probably the right decision for the state at the time, if we're being honest. But with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, it's easy to say it was a terrible decision. Still, if I had a time machine and could change only one thing as it relates to college athletics in MS, that's what I'd change. One major centrally located MS university with regional satellites instead of three regionally located major universities. It would also be interesting to see how all those championships over the years would have impacted the psyche of the average MS resident.

[curmudgeon]

If you want to go further back. This was a proposed 16 team Metro Conference in 1990 that fell apart.

North Division
-------------------
Boston College
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple
Virginia Tech
West Virginia

South Division
---------------
East Carolina
Florida State
Louisville
Memphis
Miami
South Carolina
Southern Miss
Tulane

This was Florida State's brainchild. It fell apart when South Carolina bolted for the SEC, and the state of Virginia wouldn't allow Virginia Tech and VCU to be in different athletic conferences. Of course, after South Carolina bolted, Miami and the entire North division sans Cincy went to the New Big East and Florida State to the ACC. The leftovers formed Conference USA.

They were so pissed at South Carolina messing this up that they didn't let them compete in men's soccer for a few years. This would have been a premier conference in the early 90s. Louisville had just thrashed Alabama in the Fiesta Bowl and Florida State was beginning a run and Miami was a powerhouse.

[UMCDawg16]

You guys that think MSU or OM is gonna get "dropped" from the SEC have lost your mind. That's paranoia and an inferiority complex exhibited in its finest form...