MAIS Teams no comparison to MHSAA!!1!

[engie]

#1 Oxford 26, Jackson Prep 21 with 4:00 to go playing in Oxford.

Prep continuing to tko the long-held stereotype...

[ScottH]

Playing in Flowood i think.

I assume this is the highest ranked MHSAA school a MAIS school has played.

I think Bassfield was around number 10 last year.

Not sure where Oxford was ranked when they played last year.

Prep played Brentwood Academy and MUS lots of years ago when they were both way up the Tennessee food chain.

[engie]

You are correct...

26-21 final sealed on a DK Metcalf INT...

[Maroons]

Prep had two opportunities for short FG's in the 1st half and they decided to go for the conversion both times and failed.

[Tdawg]

Prep had two opportunities for short FG's in the 1st half and they decided to go for the conversion both times and failed.

Sounds like freeze's dumbass vs Bama

[Todd4State]

What Maroons said plus Metcalf made a circus catch on a tipped ball to score a TD.

Oxford is the number one team in the state per the Clarion-Ledger and beat South Panola in a jamboree last weekend FWIW.

[K9 Avenger]

#1 Oxford 26, Jackson Prep 21 with 4:00 to go playing in Oxford.

Prep continuing to tko the long-held stereotype...

Yes, the MAIS has 2 and a half good teams....the rest, not so much.

[Todd4State]

Yes, the MAIS has 2 and a half good teams....the rest, not so much.

And the MHSAA has how many bad teams?

The meme used to be that the MAIS teams couldn't compete with any of the public schools. Prep and MRA have changed that. JA just started playing public schools a couple of years ago, but they are very good as well but they didn't carry the banner like Prep and MRA did. Magnolia Heights, Presbyterian Christian, and Centreville Academy are all very good small private school teams that would compete very solidly in 1A, which is where they would be classified.

And I wouldn't be surprised at all if Hartfield Academy becomes the Rankin County version of MRA in 3-5 years.

[It_Could_Happen]

I'm not even from MS but you give me all 10 of the best public school teams and line them up one at a time against the best MAIS team and public schools win 10 out of 10.

[DownwardDawg]

I'm not even from MS but you give me all 10 of the best public school teams and line them up one at a time against the best MAIS team and public schools win 10 out of 10.

No. They would win the vast majority but not all. Plus, that trend is changing. More and more people are sending their kids to private school. With the direction this country is going, people are sacrificing other things to be able to afford it. I know some young people that barely scrape by and they wouldn't consider sending their kids to public. One of these families has a very talented athlete for a son.

[sbcmortgageman]

I'm not even from MS but you give me all 10 of the best public school teams and line them up one at a time against the best MAIS team and public schools win 10 out of 10.

You have no clue. They've been playing for years now an Prep and MRA have done quite well.

[engie]

I'm not even from MS but you give me all 10 of the best public school teams and line them up one at a time against the best MAIS team and public schools win 10 out of 10.

And you think these games would be "fair" competitions? That what's happened in surrounding states with single athletics organizations -- where they've put in 1.3 and 1.4 multipliers for the private schools to "play them up" and keep them from constantly dominating their divisions. Prep has 768 students 6th-12th -- 109 fewer than Oxford has in 9th-12th. You think it's an "even comparison" when Prep plays #1 teams in the state that is over double their size? Teams of a size that they routinely beat in reality...

If you do the math by enrollment and put the MAIS teams in their proper divisions -- Prep would be 4A, JA would be 3A, MRA and a handful of others would be 2A, and the rest of the MAIS would be A. Prep and JA would wreck shit in the average year.

[Jack Lambert]

And the MHSAA has how many bad teams?

The meme used to be that the MAIS teams couldn't compete with any of the public schools. Prep and MRA have changed that. JA just started playing public schools a couple of years ago, but they are very good as well but they didn't carry the banner like Prep and MRA did. Magnolia Heights, Presbyterian Christian, and Centreville Academy are all very good small private school teams that would compete very solidly in 1A, which is where they would be classified.

And I wouldn't be surprised at all if Hartfield Academy becomes the Rankin County version of MRA in 3-5 years.

I watched Canton play Richland in a jamboree last week. Both Warren Central and Richland are horrible. They could not compete in in the MAIS AAA. Canton could compete in the A or AA public schools. I was at the Prep game last night and there is no way Oxfor is the number one team.

[ScottH]

If you do the math by enrollment and put the MAIS teams in their proper divisions -- Prep would be 4A, JA would be 3A, MRA and a handful of others would be 2A, and the rest of the MAIS would be A.

Correct.

In the proper divisions, a good many (not all) MAIS schools would do very well in MHSAA. Probably be title contenders each year in most sports.

The argument always seems to circle around to Prep couldn't beat SPanola or Mad Cent. Well they'd be 2 or 3 divisions lower and not supposed to.

Thee key is - in the proper division.

[cheewgumm]

I think the public schools would point out that though they have more people, they can only have people on their team that love in that schools area.

Private schools don't have that restriction do they?

[engie]

I think the public schools would point out that though they have more people, they can only have people on their team that love in that schools area.

Private schools don't have that restriction do they?

Correct. That + recruitment is the reason for the multiplier in other states, meaning a private school with 1000 students would be considered the same as a public school with 1300 students....

It's stupid and backwards that Mississippi still has separate athletics entities... Not to mention unfair to the athletes overall...

[Todd4State]

I watched Canton play Richland in a jamboree last week. Both Warren Central and Richland are horrible. They could not compete in in the MAIS AAA. Canton could compete in the A or AA public schools. I was at the Prep game last night and there is no way Oxfor is the number one team.

I have to agree with you tht Oxford is probably not the number one team in the state. I was actually a little bit surprised that the Clarion-Ledger has them there. I could buy number one in 5A maybe though.

[Todd4State]

Correct.

In the proper divisions, a good many (not all) MAIS schools would do very well in MHSAA. Probably be title contenders each year in most sports.

The argument always seems to circle around to Prep couldn't beat SPanola or Mad Cent. Well they'd be 2 or 3 divisions lower and not supposed to.

Thee key is - in the proper division.

As long as Bobby Hall is at MC, Prep would have a fighting chance against them. I would expect a game about like the Oxford game last night.

[Todd4State]

I think the public schools would point out that though they have more people, they can only have people on their team that love in that schools area.

Private schools don't have that restriction do they?

Yes, but it's also illegal to recruit players to a private school. Ask MRA circa 1992. Not saying it doesn't happen- but there is at least risk for penalty. And let's not act like South Panola and Olive Branch don't recruit- heck, Trey Smith is the first QB that MC has had that actually went through the school system for years. And ironically most of the QB's for MC have come from......Jackson Academy.

[msstate7]

I have to agree with you tht Oxford is probably not the number one team in the state. I was actually a little bit surprised that the Clarion-Ledger has them there. I could buy number one in 5A maybe though.

CL loves oxford bc it's OM's location and has 2 '16 OM commits**

[CadaverDawg]

I'm on neither side of this debate......but this thread is filled with a bunch of comments that sound like butthurt private school guys that were trying to beat this drum when they were in school 15+ years ago, ha.

Truth is, there are a few good private schools that can compete with public. But you also have to throw in the USM factor....which is the fact that public schools are in a no win situation when playing those games. Private Schools are out to prove sometching, while public schools get ridiculed even if they win (see Oxford from last night). I'm not saying Prep isn't good, or Oxford didn't care....I'm just saying it's silly to not take that USM factor into consideration in comparing them.

Private schools are on the rise though, and hopefully there won't be a split before too long and they can all play each other.

[PMDawg]

Not trying to flame, but why do grown men care about this? It's high school football. This thread comes up every year, and I always wonder why. I guess it must be what cadaver said. Some of you guys played prep and carry around an inferiority complex?

[engie]

Not trying to flame, but why do grown men care about this? It's high school football. This thread comes up every year, and I always wonder why. I guess it must be what cadaver said. Some of you guys played prep and carry around an inferiority complex?

You are seriously on a college football message board asking why people care about highschool football and the logistics thereof?

And yes -- those of us that went to private schools and heard the bullshit about how we couldn't compete still hold a little bit of a grudge about it -- especially when it's proven to be total bullshit over time. We were right all along -- and we want people to know about it.

My actual point is that the MAIS shouldn't still exist. It's 2014. And I get butthurt about it everytime I tune in to the MS/ALA all-star game with 2-3 very good private school players left at home on a technicality regardless of how talented they are -- when we proceed to lose the game in heartbreaking ways. Think Ryan Buchanan wouldn't have helped that team tremendously two years ago?

[PMDawg]

In other words, you just always have to be right about everything. Got it. Look im just busting your balls. Doesnt really matter to me. Hey, I played public school ball and I sucked. My team was awesome, but I wasnt. So you were likely better than at least 1 public school guy.

[cheewgumm]

Eliminate private school division and let public schools recruit.... Problem solved. Everyone plays everybody, by the same rules.

[shoeless joe]

Couple of good points and a couple of misleading points in this thread. The number of students is a factor but remember there are huge discrepancies between the biggest 6A and the smallest and that can be the case in every classification, so using that as a reason to be impressed with this particular game is a little misleading.

This is kind of, not exactly, but kind of the same as the old "Boise beat one SEC team so they coulda won the conference" argument from a few years back. HUGE difference between getting up to play that type opponent once or twice versus doing it every week or even every other week. How would prep do if their next 5 games were against south pianola, West Point, Starkville, noxubee county, and Columbus?? I really don't know...but that's just a sample of a few of the schedules faced in this area.

All that's said, at the end of the day the quality of private school ball in a couple of schools has improved tremendously and the field top quality teams that could compete with a good portion of MHSAA teams. And there are a lot of reasons for that. So to sit here and act like they couldn't compete at some level is incorrect but to act like they would battle for the title every year is incorrect also.

[civilengineerdog]

I'm on neither side of this debate......but this thread is filled with a bunch of comments that sound like butthurt private school guys that were trying to beat this drum when they were in school 15+ years ago, ha.

Truth is, there are a few good private schools that can compete with public. But you also have to throw in the USM factor....which is the fact that public schools are in a no win situation when playing those games. Private Schools are out to prove sometching, while public schools get ridiculed even if they win (see Oxford from last night). I'm not saying Prep isn't good, or Oxford didn't care....I'm just saying it's silly to not take that USM factor into consideration in comparing them.

Private schools are on the rise though, and hopefully there won't be a split before too long and they can all play each other.

The better academies would wilt if they had to play Brandon, Meridian, Oak Grove and Madison Central in a row. One a one game basis they show up and do well, but the physical beating would wear them down. To make this a lower classification comparison, plug in Oxford, Louisville, or other 5 or 4A teams.

FWIW, I played football in public school before and after integration. Lots of my childhood friends parent's sent them to Jackson Prep so they could attend a white Murrah. After seeing how fast and physical the old Big Eight Conference was compared to the academy leagues, it was apparent there was no comparison when it came to athleticism, speed and the physical nature of the games being played. There is no doubt that the post integration public schools played, and still play, a faster more physical brand of football.

It is preposterous that there is still a separate "academy" football league in 2014.

[Steakonastick]

That's the difference private schools are smaller but they can recruit.

So realistically a 700 student Prep is not the same as a 700 student george county. Would prep be as competitive having only flowood kids?

[engie]

Prep isn't a 700 student high school. It's a 400 student high school. The 700+ number is 6th - 12th. George County's enrollment is 1090 in high school. So, you tell me Prep would have an "unfair" advantage against a school almost 3x it's size?

[engie]

The better academies would wilt if they had to play Brandon, Meridian, Oak Grove and Madison Central in a row. One a one game basis they show up and do well, but the physical beating would wear them down. To make this a lower classification comparison, plug in Oxford, Louisville, or other 5 or 4A teams.

FWIW, I played football in public school before and after integration. Lots of my childhood friends parent's sent them to Jackson Prep so they could attend a white Murrah. After seeing how fast and physical the old Big Eight Conference was compared to the academy leagues, it was apparent there was no comparison when it came to athleticism, speed and the physical nature of the games being played. There is no doubt that the post integration public schools played, and still play, a faster more physical brand of football.

It is preposterous that there is still a separate "academy" football league in 2014.

So because there was a difference the day the private schools were formed -- there is still some drastic difference? Despite a lot of empirical evidence saying otherwise? Got it.
"It's just the get up for one game phenomenon" in spite of the fact that Prep plays at least 3 public schools this year...

[CadaverDawg]

So because there was a difference the day the private schools were formed -- there is still some drastic difference? Despite a lot of empirical evidence saying otherwise? Got it.
"It's just the get up for one game phenomenon" in spite of the fact that Prep plays at least 3 public schools this year...

So how bad would Oxford have to beat them in order for you not to beat your chest about private schools? Prep lost the game. This is what I'm talking about when I say it's a lose/lose for public schools. Oxford won, yet private school advocates are out beating their chests because it was close.

Private schools are becoming really good lately...but that's only in the last 5-10 years. The gap has tightened tremendously lately, but public schools were WAY ahead previous to the last 5-10 years.

Everyone is admitting that private schools are improving. They just aren't able to withstand a weekly public schedule yet. I'm not sure I follow the argument you're making. If you're saying 10+ years ago private schools could compete with public, you're wrong.

[TheRef]

So how bad would Oxford have to beat them in order for you not to beat your chest about private schools? Prep lost the game. This is what I'm talking about when I say it's a lose/lose for public schools. Oxford won, yet private school advocates are out beating their chests because it was close.

Private schools are becoming really good lately...but that's only in the last 5-10 years. The gap has tightened tremendously lately, but public schools were WAY ahead previous to the last 5-10 years.

Everyone is admitting that private schools are improving. They just aren't able to withstand a weekly public schedule yet. I'm not sure I follow the argument you're making. If you're saying 10+ years ago private schools could compete with public, you're wrong.

Speaking of, send your prayers up for a Prep player who is in critical condition following the game last night. He's not in good shape.

[Steakonastick]

I actually guessed numbers. So if we are going by numbers you do realize there is almost a 900 student difference in 6a teams

Tupelo 2076
Petal 1148

So if petal plays tupelo and loses it's not fair.

[CadaverDawg]

Speaking of, send your prayers up for a Prep player who is in critical condition following the game last night. He's not in good shape.

Definitely.

[Todd4State]

Not trying to flame, but why do grown men care about this? It's high school football. This thread comes up every year, and I always wonder why. I guess it must be what cadaver said. Some of you guys played prep and carry around an inferiority complex?

First of all, I went to a public school.

Why do I care about this? Because I like football and recruiting. Sorry if that makes me weird.

I advocate against the thought that private schools can't compete with public schools because it's ignorant. People see a bunch of rich white kids and just automatically assume they can't play.

[Todd4State]

So how bad would Oxford have to beat them in order for you not to beat your chest about private schools? Prep lost the game. This is what I'm talking about when I say it's a lose/lose for public schools. Oxford won, yet private school advocates are out beating their chests because it was close.

Private schools are becoming really good lately...but that's only in the last 5-10 years. The gap has tightened tremendously lately, but public schools were WAY ahead previous to the last 5-10 years.

Everyone is admitting that private schools are improving. They just aren't able to withstand a weekly public schedule yet. I'm not sure I follow the argument you're making. If you're saying 10+ years ago private schools could compete with public, you're wrong.

Yeah- to the number one team in the state. And whether you agree that Oxford is really number one or not, they are still top 10 and probably the favorite to win 5A.

And you're wrong about public schools being "way" ahead 5-10 years ago- 2007 Prep 50 Pearl 0.

[CadaverDawg]

First of all, I went to a public school.

Why do I care about this? Because I like football and recruiting. Sorry if that makes me weird.

I advocate against the thought that private schools can't compete with public schools because it's ignorant. People see a bunch of rich white kids and just automatically assume they can't play.

I've never thought of it as a rich, white, kid thing....but more of a numbers and depth thing. A lot of talented kids are starting to go to Private schools because there is great private school coaching, and some incredible academics and facilities. So I think the gap will continue to close and right now some of the top private schools are better than a lot of public schools.

Hell, I went to public school, but private schools used to spank us in baseball every summer. I see football slowly working towards a baseball comparison. I like that private schools are so competitive. Great athletics, great academics, great facilities.

[Todd4State]

That's the difference private schools are smaller but they can recruit.

So realistically a 700 student Prep is not the same as a 700 student george county. Would prep be as competitive having only flowood kids?

A majority of their students are from Northeast Jackson. Which they actually split with JA. If you combined the two, you would have a top 10 team easy with only Northeast Jackson kids.

[CadaverDawg]

Yeah- to the number one team in the state. And whether you agree that Oxford is really number one or not, they are still top 10 and probably the favorite to win 5A.

And you're wrong about public schools being "way" ahead 5-10 years ago- 2007 Prep 50 Pearl 0.

I said "Previous" to 5-10 years ago. In other words....2004 and earlier. And don't take what I'm saying the wrong way, I agree that private schools are getting better by the year. What I don't agree with, is the mindset that "it's always been that way, and is just a stereotype". That's just not true. The gap has started to close over the last 10 years give or take. When I was in Highschool, there wasn't a private school in the state that could have beaten a 4 or 5a public school. Back then, kids went to private schools because they were smaller and less athletic, and they wanted a chance to actually play football and basketball.

ETA: the reason I didn't play football, was because I wasn't good enough to play public school. I played baseball in public school, but in hindsight, I would have loved to go to private school where I could have experienced football and basketball at the Highschool level. I could have gone to any private school I wanted and played football. Still wouldn't have been good, but I could have played. It's not like that at Prep right now....athletes would have just as tough of a time getting PT at Prep these days as they would a good public school. It hasn't been like that very long.

Hell, I remember when Hillcrest started recruiting players and getting decent at football, and that was probably 8-10 years ago. Before that they were awful and had O Linemen that were 5'9 190. The private school game has changed, and will only get better

[Todd4State]

I've never thought of it as a rich, white, kid thing....but more of a numbers and depth thing. A lot of talented kids are starting to go to Private schools because there is great private school coaching, and some incredible academics and facilities. So I think the gap will continue to close and right now some of the top private schools are better than a lot of public schools.

Hell, I went to public school, but private schools used to spank us in baseball every summer. I see football slowly working towards a baseball comparison. I like that private schools are so competitive. Great athletics, great academics, great facilities.

I commend you for having that attitude. A lot of people see it the way I talked about.

I do think most people that go to private schools go their for education, although I'm sure some go there for other reasons as well.

The gap will close because I'm sure there were some people that didn't send their kids because of the sports but now that they see that they can and do play against public schools, I think it will help.

[CadaverDawg]

I commend you for having that attitude. A lot of people see it the way I talked about.

I do think most people that go to private schools go their for education, although I'm sure some go there for other reasons as well.

The gap will close because I'm sure there were some people that didn't send their kids because of the sports but now that they see that they can and do play against public schools, I think it will help.

100% agree

[Todd4State]

I said "Previous" to 5-10 years ago. In other words....2004 and earlier. And don't take what I'm saying the wrong way, I agree that private schools are getting better by the year. What I don't agree with, is the mindset that "it's always been that way, and is just a stereotype". That's just not true. The gap has started to close over the last 10 years give or take. When I was in Highschool, there wasn't a private school in the state that could have beaten a 4 or 5a public school. Back then, kids went to private schools because they were smaller and less athletic, and they wanted a chance to actually play football and basketball.

ETA: the reason I didn't play football, was because I wasn't good enough to play public school. I played baseball in public school, but in hindsight, I would have loved to go to private school where I could have experienced football and basketball at the Highschool level. I could have gone to any private school I wanted and played football. Still wouldn't have been good, but I could have played. It's not like that at Prep right now....athletes would have just as tough of a time getting PT at Prep these days as they would a good public school. It hasn't been like that very long.

Hell, I remember when Hillcrest started recruiting players and getting decent at football, and that was probably 8-10 years ago. Before that they were awful and had O Linemen that were 5'9 190. The private school game has changed, and will only get better

Prep has been able to go 2 deep on both sides of the ball for as long as I can remember.

Hillcrest is just bad at football. Just like Horn Lake is bad in 6A every year. That's a sports phenomenon- some teams are going to be better consistently than others.

[cheewgumm]

Coaching in academy - way better

[Todd4State]

Eliminate private school division and let public schools recruit.... Problem solved. Everyone plays everybody, by the same rules.

Or have it so that no one can recruit. Especially since public schools are the worst offenders of this anyway.

The thing about recruiting at private schools that everyone forgets is there is always going to be some Daddy at Prep, JA, MRA, Indianola Academy, etc. that wants their boy to play, and they aren't going to be real thrilled when some public school ringer takes his sons spot on the team.

[Jack Lambert]

The better academies would wilt if they had to play Brandon, Meridian, Oak Grove and Madison Central in a row. One a one game basis they show up and do well, but the physical beating would wear them down. To make this a lower classification comparison, plug in Oxford, Louisville, or other 5 or 4A teams.

FWIW, I played football in public school before and after integration. Lots of my childhood friends parent's sent them to Jackson Prep so they could attend a white Murrah. After seeing how fast and physical the old Big Eight Conference was compared to the academy leagues, it was apparent there was no comparison when it came to athleticism, speed and the physical nature of the games being played. There is no doubt that the post integration public schools played, and still play, a faster more physical brand of football.

It is preposterous that there is still a separate "academy" football league in 2014.

What kind of logic is that? Prep graduates 130 and Brandon Graduates 500. If you matched the private schools up with the same size public schools they could compete.

[engie]

So how bad would Oxford have to beat them in order for you not to beat your chest about private schools? Prep lost the game. This is what I'm talking about when I say it's a lose/lose for public schools. Oxford won, yet private school advocates are out beating their chests because it was close.

Private schools are becoming really good lately...but that's only in the last 5-10 years. The gap has tightened tremendously lately, but public schools were WAY ahead previous to the last 5-10 years.
I argue that this "private school improvement" is a figment of your imagination. The reason it seems like they've "become really good lately" is because they very first day they decided to start playing public schools -- they decided to start beating public schools. It wasn't a 4-5 year build -- it was immediate. And it started the first day they played. If it had happened 20 years ago -- the same result would have happened IMO.

Of course it's a moral victory when you play the #1 team in the state that is over 3x as large as you are -- and you are driving for the win late before throwing an INT. These are Prep's true contemporaries(after adding in a 1.3 or 1.4 multiplier as is used in surrounding states). Who in this group would they not likely wreck?
http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20140823-yb0d-69kb.jpg (http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/20140823-yb0d-69kb)


I'm not sure I follow the argument you're making. If you're saying 10+ years ago private schools could compete with public, you're wrong.
Of course they couldn't. Because they didn't get to play them -- and therefore you can say this with a straight face. How was it possible that the day they started playing them they started beating them?