Coach, War, Beast or someone else, can you you explain our offensive line?

[ShotgunDawg]

All I've heard today from our coaches, the media, tweets, ect... is that we lost our starting RT in Robinson, but that appears to be a smoke screen BS, because the "game depth chart" has not been released yet, and no one had technically beat out Robinson.

I apologize because I'm sure this has already been covered, but, without dogging Robinson, can someone answer these questions:

1. Why are our coaches referring to Robinson as the starting RT?

2. If Robinson really wasn't the starting RT, then who was?

3. Why is Justin Malone now having to work at RT, when he says in a video today that he had been working at RG? Why was he working at RG?

4. Where does Justin Senior fit into all this?

5. What does Robinson's injury actually mean to our O-line?


In other words, can someone SIMPLY explain what the hell is going on? Offensive line play is my weak spot of football knowledge.

Thanks!

[Political Hack]

it's not that complicated. DR is out. They now need another RT. Senior was battling to start regardless, but now it's between him and Malone. Our staff believes in using competition to fill positions. If Malone at RT gives us our best five, that's the rotation. If it's Senior, that's our rotation.

It essentially breakdowns to this... is our OL better with Clayborne & Beckwith starting at the OGs and Malone at OT with Senior backing up - or - is it better with Malone and Beckwith at OGs with Clayborne backing up and Senior starting at RT?

At least that's how I see it.

[Steakonastick]

I will do my best to explain.

1. Robinson was the starter at rt after the spring. So going into camp he was 1st. We did not get a ton of info from practice updates. But what we heard was Senior was pushing Robinson and some counts had passed him.

2. Senior

3. We are trying to get our best 5 lineman on the field at the same time. The coaches like Malone at guard but he is athletic enough to move outside. By moving him to tackle if give us a starting line all with major sec experience. It also lets clayborn start who is our best road grader.

4. The rt job is Senior's to lose.

5. In my opinion we lost our backup right tackle. We now are going into sec play with 2 tackles with sec experience. Our backups are a converted tightend Rufus warren and cole carter. Neither have played major sec snaps. But I expect Malone to be the actual back up in case of injury.

You want 8 offensive lineman you can count on to play. 5 starters, a backup center, guard, and tackle. Right now we have 6. We have some young talented guys but have very little experience. But we have a good early schedule to get them meaningful snaps before lsu.

Hope all this makes sense

[Todd4State]

it's not that complicated. DR is out. They now need another RT. Senior was battling to start regardless, but now it's between him and Malone. Our staff believes in using competition to fill positions. If Malone at RT gives us our best five, that's the rotation. If it's Senior, that's our rotation.

It essentially breakdowns to this... is our OL better with Clayborne & Beckwith starting at the OGs and Malone at OT with Senior backing up - or - is it better with Malone and Beckwith at OGs with Clayborne backing up and Senior starting at RT?

At least that's how I see it.

I agree with this.

And had Damien stayed healthy, I wouldn't have been surprised if he "started" because he is a senior who works hard and etc., but I do believe that Senior/Malone would have seen the majority of the snaps at RT anyway.

[ShotgunDawg]

Got it. Makes sense.

The part that was confusing me was why Malone is now working at a new position if Robinson wasn't going to start to begin with.

Is Beckwith really better than Clayborne or Senior?

Why is Beckwith starting regardless?

[Coach34]

Got it. Makes sense.

The part that was confusing me was why Malone is now working at a new position if Robinson wasn't going to start to begin with.

Is Beckwith really better than Clayborne or Senior?

Why is Beckwith starting regardless?

1) Robinson was working more with the 3's than the 1's when he got hurt. People are going to say nice things about a good guy that was a 5th year player to the media.

2) We run a zone blocking scheme- so there is not much difference in playing Tackle or Guard in our offense. Only difference is guards have to be a little more physical and the OT's have to deal with DE's

3) Malone is the most talented offensive lineman we have. He is going to play and play well wherever he plays. So we have to decide if we are better with him at OT- which makes Clayborn a starter- or are we better with him at Guard and making Senior the starter?

[ShotgunDawg]

Thanks for wrapping this in a nice little box guys. Good stuff!

[Dawgcentral]

In our system, you make these guys as interchangeable as possible. The big loss for the season hasn't occurred at this time. We could have problems if two more injuries occur, but I do think we've got the redshirts to mature quickly, just don't want see them thrown into the chaos.

[EAVdog]

Not saying Robinson could not have won the job but, when you have a Senior who should have potential to start you do what you can to motivate him. Regardless of him being the starter or not we needed him to be on the field. We'll have to shuffle backups to cover the loss. Cole Carter/Rufus Warren/Devon Desper, one of them is going to be pushed up the ladder. Hopefully some of the young guys can get lots of PT in the first 3 games.

Sucks to lose DR but I think the starting 5 won't be affected.

[Pollodawg]

So, in other words, it sucks, but it isn't season ending or anything.

[MarketingBully01]

I will do my best to explain.

1. Robinson was the starter at rt after the spring. So going into camp he was 1st. We did not get a ton of info from practice updates. But what we heard was Senior was pushing Robinson and some counts had passed him.

2. Senior

3. We are trying to get our best 5 lineman on the field at the same time. The coaches like Malone at guard but he is athletic enough to move outside. By moving him to tackle if give us a starting line all with major sec experience. It also lets clayborn start who is our best road grader.

4. The rt job is Senior's to lose.

5. In my opinion we lost our backup right tackle. We now are going into sec play with 2 tackles with sec experience. Our backups are a converted tightend Rufus warren and cole carter. Neither have played major sec snaps. But I expect Malone to be the actual back up in case of injury.

You want 8 offensive lineman you can count on to play. 5 starters, a backup center, guard, and tackle. Right now we have 6. We have some young talented guys but have very little experience. But we have a good early schedule to get them meaningful snaps before lsu.

Hope all this makes sense

I thought we had more then six quality linemen we would use. I know some don't have experience but I thought we would have at least 8 or 9 we could potentially use even though some may be redshirt freshmen even with the loss of DR.

[War Machine Dawg]

All I've heard today from our coaches, the media, tweets, ect... is that we lost our starting RT in Robinson, but that appears to be a smoke screen BS, because the "game depth chart" has not been released yet, and no one had technically beat out Robinson.

I apologize because I'm sure this has already been covered, but, without dogging Robinson, can someone answer these questions:

1. Why are our coaches referring to Robinson as the starting RT?

2. If Robinson really wasn't the starting RT, then who was?

3. Why is Justin Malone now having to work at RT, when he says in a video today that he had been working at RG? Why was he working at RG?

4. Where does Justin Senior fit into all this?

5. What does Robinson's injury actually mean to our O-line?


In other words, can someone SIMPLY explain what the hell is going on? Offensive line play is my weak spot of football knowledge.

Thanks!


it's not that complicated. DR is out. They now need another RT. Senior was battling to start regardless, but now it's between him and Malone. Our staff believes in using competition to fill positions. If Malone at RT gives us our best five, that's the rotation. If it's Senior, that's our rotation.

It essentially breakdowns to this... is our OL better with Clayborne & Beckwith starting at the OGs and Malone at OT with Senior backing up - or - is it better with Malone and Beckwith at OGs with Clayborne backing up and Senior starting at RT?

At least that's how I see it.

Hack's explanation is fairly close, at least to me. But I'll attempt to answer your questions:

1. Basically, they're just giving DR his "day in the sun" so to speak by saying he was the starter. Even though he's been a bust, he's worked hard and stayed with the program for 5 years. The coaches aren't going to throw him under the bus. Plus, he finished spring as the #1 RT. And since we haven't listed an official USM depth chart, he was still technically the "starting" RT.

2. Rumors are strong that Senior had won the #1 RT job with Warren #2. It looks like Hev wants to keep Malone inside at G, which I personally think is a bit of a mistake. But Hev apparently loves Malone inside, and it's ultimately his decision. I think our best starting 5 is probably Clausell, Clayborn, Day, Beckwith, and Malone with Senior as the swing T. But Hev really likes Senior at RT and thinks we're better off with Beckwith/Clausell splitting time at LG, Malone at RG, and Senior at RT. Won't necessarily have a swing T, but I'm guessing we'd bump Malone outside if it comes to that.

3. I think I probably answered this with #2, but Malone is going to be the emergence swing T, it would seem. So he needs to see some reps at T to be ready to play there if needed. That said, I feel at 6'7" Malone is best suited to be RT. It's hard for guys that tall to get low enough to create the necessary leverage in the interior.

4. As of now, Senior is the starting RT. We'll see if that lasts or if Hev decides we're better off with Malone as the starting RT and Senior as the swing T. I think Senior will be fine at RT, and with Hev preferring to keep Malone at RG, we'll stick with Clausell, Clayborn/Beckwith, Day, Malone, and Senior.

5. I'm sure I'll get ripped, but DR's injury means little or nothing. It was already being reported by observers he was running with the 3s behind Warren. Frankly, he had his chance during the spring and early fall and couldn't cut it. I think we all pretty much knew that would happen. I don't take pleasure in seeing him hurt, but he wasn't one of our best 9-10 OL. He'd have been on the FG unit at best, maybe some garbage time minutes.

[Johnson85]

How realistic is it for Malone to bounce from OG to OT during the season? If we decide Clausell, Clayborne/Beckwith, Day, Malone, and Senior gives us our most talented line, and then Senior gets hurt, can Malone slide to OT during the game? the next week? Or is there too much of a difference between assignments and technique for him to make that transition without getting reps at OT each week in practice?

[Coach34]

In a nutshell- it wouldn't be a problem. Zone blocking is basically the same for OG's and OT's- except that Guards deal with 300 pounders and OT's deal with 265 pounders. Their 1st step on most plays are the same

[Irondawg]

So all these OL threads made me want to get more educated on the subject of OL play and zone blocking. Been watching this in pieces and there are a ton more like it. I understand about 60% of it, but it's a bit enlightening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL5uxe1QTUk

[MzTerry]

Got it. Makes sense.

The part that was confusing me was why Malone is now working at a new position if Robinson wasn't going to start to begin with.

Is Beckwith really better than Clayborne or Senior?

Why is Beckwith starting regardless?

I'm with you - Beckwith did a decent job filling in last year, but he is a weak spot. He will be exposed if he is the starter. We need to start Clausell, Clayborn, Day, Malone, Senior.

[Coach34]

I'm with you - Beckwith did a decent job filling in last year, but he is a weak spot. He will be exposed if he is the starter. We need to start Clausell, Clayborn, Day, Malone, Senior.

I suggest you watch the last 3 games or so last year- Beckwith was possessed in our last 2 games. He was trying to kill people. Hev ain't gonna start him if he can't pull his weight

[Johnson85]

In a nutshell- it wouldn't be a problem. Zone blocking is basically the same for OG's and OT's- except that Guards deal with 300 pounders and OT's deal with 265 pounders. Their 1st step on most plays are the same

Is it close enough that Malone could switch back and forth during a game? Use him to swing between OG and OT so that he is spelling Beckwith and then Senior?

Or close enough that Malone could switch back and forth between games? Practice with him at OT on weeks where we have a particularly tough DE matchup and put him at OG when we're coming up against a D that is stouter in the interior?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

The only time you will see Malone at OT in a game is if Senior or Clausell get hurt. Only other scenario is if Senior is just terrible which I don't think will happen. We're confident in a right side of Malone & Senior to get the job done.

[HoopsDawg]

I suggest you watch the last 3 games or so last year- Beckwith was possessed in our last 2 games. He was trying to kill people. Hev ain't gonna start him if he can't pull his weight

Hev likes him b/c he has experience and he trusts him. And Dillon Day trusts him, I think they are roommates. But I have to agree with MzTerry that Clayborn is more talented. I would start the 5 he mentioned and use Beckwith as our utility guy-backing up center and both guards.

Malone is going to work some at tackle now, b/c our backup tackles are not ready yet.

[HoopsDawg]

The only time you will see Malone at OT in a game is if Senior or Clausell get hurt. Only other scenario is if Senior is just terrible which I don't think will happen. We're confident in a right side of Malone & Senior to get the job done.

correct.

[HoopsDawg]

Is it close enough that Malone could switch back and forth during a game? Use him to swing between OG and OT so that he is spelling Beckwith and then Senior?



Oline isn't like the Dline. You don't roll players through the Oline. They don't need rest during games and cohesiveness is a huge key.

Think of the depth chart this way:

LT: Clausell/Senior
LG: Beckwith/Clayborn
C: Day/Beckwith
RG: Malone/Beckwith
RT: Senior/Malone

[Big4Dawg]

Paul just reported Malone moved to RT

[HoopsDawg]

Paul just reported Malone moved to RT

We have already mentioned in this thread that Malone will practice some at RT b/c we need him for depth.

[Coach34]

I'll answer both of you here:

@Johnson- OL is about cohesiveness and trust. You have to be in sync. You don't want to move people around constantly. If we move Malone- it will be for awhile- not just a series or a quarter

@Hoops- Warren is coming on and is the major factor in Malone staying at Guard. Senior is playing well and has taken the RT job. Hev is staying on Warren's ass and trying to get enough confidence with him that Malone doesn't have to bump out.
Also- I totally agree that Clayborn has more talent than Beckwith. I don't think anybody argues that. But there are a lot of little things that go into playing OL that take more than just talent. Things like knowing when to pass off the DT to your guy and moving to the 2nd level. You have to be in sync on those things because they are by feel and trust. If Beckwith starts- it's because it is working and he is doing the job.

[Jack Lambert]

didn't they move a back up trackle to being a back up center during the spring?

[HoopsDawg]

didn't they move a back up trackle to being a back up center during the spring?

Muniz is the backup center. Yes, he has worked all over the oline.

[Coach34]

Personally- I'd rather have Malone at RT if I had to make the choice simply because I think Clayborn is a better player than Senior. Also, since Desper is coming on and Flowers had a great Spring- they give us OG depth

Then you have Malone and Clausell at the OT's- with Senior, Warren, and Carter providing quality depth

[HoopsDawg]

Personally- I'd rather have Malone at RT if I had to make the choice simply because I think Clayborn is a better player than Senior. Also, since Desper is coming on and Flowers had a great Spring- they give us OG depth

Then you have Malone and Clausell at the OT's- with Senior, Warren, and Carter providing quality depth

Not me. Senior has much better feet than Malone especially since Malone is still a little gimpy. Senior is 6'5, but his wingspan is 6'8. We need Malone inside opening up some running lanes. I do want Clayborn on the field, but our coaches have proved to be extremely loyal to seniors.

[Coach34]

Senior better feet than Malone? Not if Malone is healthy. I'm not knocking Senior- I like him. His only problem is that he has been a little light in the britches. He's also young- he just turned 20.

I just see it as Malone is going to be very good wherever he plays- it's basically a Senior vs Clayborn call with me

[Political Hack]

Clayborne and Malone would be the most talented OG combo, but Beckwith is very good and a SR who could've walked away from football after graduating. I think you reward him for that if it's basically an even trade with Malone at RT or OG. Also, I want to see Clayborne in the game more than just in a backup role.

I think it's:
Blaine/Sr
Beckwith/Malone
Day/Beckwith
Clayborne/Beckwith
Malone/Sr

That gives us 6. One or two more could move up for reps, but that's likely the combo barring a 7th and 8th guy emerging.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised with Senior. Now that his weight is up to SEC standard you'll see a new player. He'll still have hiccups against the best in the SEC but what OL doesn't.

[Bubb Rubb]

I saw a thread on NAFOOM (I know, shaddap) where they were saying our oline is in worse shape than theirs was last year. Of course, the rationale for that argument is recruiting stars. You'd think they would learn their lesson comparing star ratings with us when we keep whipping their asses every year.

Unlike others here, I'm not as high on our line. I do think it will be sufficient for what we're trying to do, though. You just don't need an all-world oline to run our offense. Now, if we were still trying to run the Croom Coast Offense, we would be in a lot of trouble.

[HoopsDawg]

Unlike others here, I'm not as high on our line. I do think it will be sufficient for what we're trying to do, though. You just don't need an all-world oline to run our offense. Now, if we were still trying to run the Croom Coast Offense, we would be in a lot of trouble.

I am in the same boat and have been for a while.

Here are the recruiting rankings of our projected O-line (scout):

LT: Clausell, 2 star
LG: Beckwith, walk-on NR
C: Day, 2 star
RG: Malone, 2 star
RT: Senior, 3 star

[ShotgunDawg]

Paul is actually saying this morning that Malone is running 2nd team. Not sure that makes any sense unless he isn't 100%

[HoopsDawg]

Paul is actually saying this morning that Malone is running 2nd team. Not sure that makes any sense unless he isn't 100%

This has been covered in this thread several times. Malone is the best guard on our roster, but he is a complete unknown at tackle. He has never worked there until yesterday. It's crazy that people keep trying to pencil him in at RT. Senior is a better RT than Malone. Malone is practicing at tackle b/c he is the 3rd best tackle on our roster without having ever played there and we need a plan in case clausell or senior get hurt.

[Homedawg]

I saw a thread on NAFOOM (I know, shaddap) where they were saying our oline is in worse shape than theirs was last year. Of course, the rationale for that argument is recruiting stars. You'd think they would learn their lesson comparing star ratings with us when we keep whipping their asses every year.

Unlike others here, I'm not as high on our line. I do think it will be sufficient for what we're trying to do, though. You just don't need an all-world oline to run our offense. Now, if we were still trying to run the Croom Coast Offense, we would be in a lot of trouble.

This, coming from a group that's about to start justin bell- again! He's awful.

[thf24]

This has been covered in this thread several times. Malone is the best guard on our roster, but he is a complete unknown at tackle. He has never worked there until yesterday. It's crazy that people keep trying to pencil him in at RT. Senior is a better RT than Malone. Malone is practicing at tackle b/c he is the 3rd best tackle on our roster without having ever played there and we need a plan in case clausell or senior get hurt.

As already explained by several in this thread, there's so little difference in the G and T spots in our offense that there's no reason Malone shouldn't be able to play tackle just as well as guard given his athleticism. The only shred of doubt could come from the fact that he's never faced another team's DE's, but he's not missing much there going against our DE's in practice.

[HoopsDawg]

As already explained by several in this thread, there's so little difference in the G and T spots in our offense that there's no reason Malone shouldn't be able to play tackle just as well as guard given his athleticism. The only shred of doubt could come from the fact that he's never faced another team's DE's, but he's not missing much there going against our DE's in practice.

Huge difference between guard and tackle. I saw what coach34 posted, but that's simply not true. Malone can play Tackle, maybe, but there's a big difference between G and T in any offense.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

There is a big diff between guard & tackle simply by the level of athlete you're facing. The DT's in this league are some of the strongest you will find. However the top DE's in the SEC run like most conferences WR's. If you're not a big time athlete with legit footwork you're not going to be able to go from guard to tackle in the SEC. Most just assume Malone has that ability.

[Coach34]

Huge difference between guard and tackle. I saw what coach34 posted, but that's simply not true. Malone can play Tackle, maybe, but there's a big difference between G and T in any offense.

Uh no. There really isn't other than you do more driving at G and more dancing at OT. In a zone scheme, the steps are identical on a lot of plays- and you work on your continuity with your fits and slips.

[Coach34]

There is a big diff between guard & tackle simply by the level of athlete you're facing. The DT's in this league are some of the strongest you will find. However the top DE's in the SEC run like most conferences WR's. If you're not a big time athlete with legit footwork you're not going to be able to go from guard to tackle in the SEC. Most just assume Malone has that ability.

I am talking from an assignment aspect.

There re is certainly a difference in dealing with 315 pound guys and 265 pound SEC DE's. Gabe Jackson couldn't play OT- he's road grater. Malone is a former basketball player with great feet. Big difference in body make-up

[HoopsDawg]

Uh no. There really isn't other than you do more driving at G and more dancing at OT. In a zone scheme, the steps are identical on a lot of plays- and you work on your continuity with your fits and slips.

That's just completely asinine. Forget schematics, the simple fact of going against SEC edge rushers vs SEC interior linemen is enough of a differnce on it's own. There's a reason why Saulsberry was a pretty good guard but a terrible tackle. There's a reason why Jake Thomas has been moved to guard and guys like Jamal Clayborn can't play tackle. It's a different position. Damien Robinson's biggest problem was he didn't have the feet or the athleticsim to hand the speed rush. Justin Malone is still wearing a protective boot, he doesn't have the feet that Senior has. Could Malone play tackle? Yes Is he much better at OG? Absolutely.

[Political Hack]

OG's need squat power on passing downs and driving power on running downs. Our offense does pull everyone so they are more similar in our offense than other offenses, but there's still distinct differences that C34 would agree with. For example, Day and Clayborne won't be playing OT at any point in their career unless the OT spot is just absolutely depleted. I also think it's much easier to move inside than it is to move outside on that island.

[Coach34]

First of all- scheme matters tremendously

While Gabe Jackson played OG at State and would at GaTech or Auburn- at Bama or LSU he would be a RT. You need your drive guys playing OT in an I-formation offense. Miles damn sure wouldn't be playing Gabe at OG and pulling him around on the Power. Scheme plays a huge part in who plays where.

ive already explained about the assignment portion- so won't go over that again.

But as far as our scheme and what we do- we need drivers at OG and dancers at OT. Some guys can play either/or- some can't IN OUR OFFENSE. Malone can...Clausell could...others as well. It depends on the player. If your feet aren't that good- then you aren't a dancer and can't play OT at State. That just depends on the player you are working with.

[War Machine Dawg]

That's just completely asinine. Forget schematics, the simple fact of going against SEC edge rushers vs SEC interior linemen is enough of a differnce on it's own. There's a reason why Saulsberry was a pretty good guard but a terrible tackle. There's a reason why Jake Thomas has been moved to guard and guys like Jamal Clayborn can't play tackle. It's a different position. Damien Robinson's biggest problem was he didn't have the feet or the athleticsim to hand the speed rush. Justin Malone is still wearing a protective boot, he doesn't have the feet that Senior has. Could Malone play tackle? Yes Is he much better at OG? Absolutely.

You really need to stop while you're way behind. C34 has explained this several times now. In our scheme, the G/T position is pretty much interchangeable. That doesn't mean every OG we have can play OT or that every OT we have can play OG. Lots of factors come into play, but two of the biggest are body type and feet. Gabe Jackson was a badass OG, but he didn't have they body type or feet to play OT. Same for Clayborn. But Malone is a natural tackle. He's relatively trim at 6'7" and has great feet. There's no question about whether or not he, specifically, can play both positions in our scheme. In fact, I'd argue he's more out of position for us at G than he is at T. But apparently you're incapable of understanding any of that. If we were an I-Form team, you'd be correct. But we aren't - our blocking scheme is completely different.

[MarketingBully01]

First of all- scheme matters tremendously

While Gabe Jackson played OG at State and would at GaTech or Auburn- at Bama or LSU he would be a RT. You need your drive guys playing OT in an I-formation offense. Miles damn sure wouldn't be playing Gabe at OG and pulling him around on the Power. Scheme plays a huge part in who plays where.

ive already explained about the assignment portion- so won't go over that again.

But as far as our scheme and what we do- we need drivers at OG and dancers at OT. Some guys can play either/or- some can't IN OUR OFFENSE. Malone can...Clausell could...others as well. It depends on the player. If your feet aren't that good- then you aren't a dancer and can't play OT at State. That just depends on the player you are working with.

I think we do a great job of recruiting to our system (regardless of what others may think) and developing them in that very important redshirt year where we bulk them up. I think of all the positions on the field that recruiting sites screw up on it is the Offensive Line. Sure, of course there are the no brainers like Tunsil and a few others but there is no way in heck you can rank a kid correctly who is at 270 in high school when you don't know how much more weight they could put on. I think people will be very surprised how good our offensive line will be. It will be a top-half SEC offensive line by the end of the year. You can book it.

[Coach34]

I think we do a great job of recruiting to our system (regardless of what others may think) and developing them in that very important redshirt year where we bulk them up. I think of all the positions on the field that recruiting sites screw up on it is the Offensive Line. Sure, of course there are the no brainers like Tunsil and a few others but there is no way in heck you can rank a kid correctly who is at 270 in high school when you don't know how much more weight they could put on. I think people will be very surprised how good our offensive line will be. It will be a top-half SEC offensive line by the end of the year. You can book it.


No doubt- Hoops posted the stars rating of our OL coming out of HS- so what? What were Calhoun, Smith and McKinney rated? We've had plenty of nobodies out of HS drafted liked Banks and Ballard...Jackson and Slay were also average recruits...star ratings are a guess 2/3 of the time.